Draining excess water from a lawn
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- Опубліковано 26 лип 2011
- 2-part video of a french drain installation on a home lawn.
PLEASE NOTE: In order to grow better lawn grass above a french drain like this one, it would be advisable to dig the trench deeper so you can add more topsoil above the gravel. We were limited digging to this depth since we had to connect to an existing french drain of matching depth. An alternate method would be to dig the trench shallower and have gravel run all the way up to the surface of the ground with no grass.
Bob has been a UA-camr since 2010, sharing decades of landscaping and gardening experience in videos on BOBscaping (the "channel"). We grant you a nonexclusive, nontransferable, limited right to access, use and display the channel, provided that you comply fully with these Terms & Conditions. All data and information provided on BOBscaping is for informational and entertainment purposes only. BOBscaping makes no representations as to accuracy, completeness, currentness, suitability, or validity of information on this site and will not be held liable for any errors or omissions in this information or any losses, injuries, or damages arising from its use. All information is provided on an as-is basis. Use your discretion before making any decisions based on anything you have seen here.
#frenchdrain #wetlawn #wetspots - Навчання та стиль
Thank you for the informative video! My back yard is terrible with standing water in many spots. I get to fix that in the next couple of months, and this helped!
***** Sometimes the hardest part is finding somewhere to run the water to... how did your project work out?
Thank you for the great video. But, so much conflicting information about the corrugated pipe inferior to thin wall & sch 40? I have to drive over in for season brush removal worried I might collapse it.
How right you are! I wouldn't use the type of corrugated plastic pipe seen in this video (that we used on a lawn area) where vehicles would be driving over it, and to the best of my knowledge, Schedule 40 is still the 'gold standard' for those sorts of applications, in fact, that's what I used under my own driveway. The price may even be like gold the way prices are going!
There is also great debate about wrapping french drains with landscape fabric, since it can eventually clog with fine soil particles and quit working very well. The other school of thought is that without some sort of barrier, the pipe itself can clog. It's probably best if you can run the gravel all the way to the surface, using a more attractive stone in more visible landscape applications. Some contractors only use round river stone in french drains, as opposed to the 2b limestone seen in this video.
I bumped into the client we did the french drain seen in this video last year, and he told me it is still working fine, so that's what really counts in the end.
@@bobscaping Thanks for your answer. I did do a French drain on the other side of my house. I dugout by hand and like you said I had to use only stones because it started clogging up with the landscape fabric. So I had to remove the fabric and fill it all with stone. But I did used thin wall 4” pvc with holes and I do have to drive over it because passing in front of by gate. But it’s very deep there almost 2 feet so far it works great with huge slope also added a swale.
But the other side of house that I mentioned the first time. I’m going to use schedule 40 for discharge lines. Might just go with the catch basin instead of a French drain It’s a little wet over there but mostly it’s discharge water from the leaders. Thanks for your help. I really appreciate your quick answer help me out a lot.
I'd go with 1.5" to 2" round rock. Water does not travel well through limestone. It is used as an underlayment for parking lots because it forms a hard base after a few good rains. The landscaping fabric....is it porous? If so, how porous. Non woven geofabric is the best. If you can get it double punched that even better.
Thanks for sharing your insights and experience! Regarding the fabric --Yes-- it can clog and not allow water to pass through it very easily. In response to that outcome, one friend insists that you should always fill the trench all the way to the surface with gravel, but then of course, you'll have a visible line of gravel, possibly through your nice green lawn. Using river gravel, as you suggest, would make that visibility more aesthetic with brown colored stone, than having whitish-gray limestone showing at the surface.
Was going to suggest the round rock as well. You beat me to it. The double punched geofabric works well on those systems. In this French drain the pipe should be laid on the fabric at the bottom of the trench, then add the stone and then cover the top with the fabric using landscape pins. Only overlap the fabric a little bit on top as to not impeded water flow from the top. Then put sod on top of the fabric.
Will the roots eventually get through the fabric? I’ve always heard conflicting stories about the fabric?
We used different types of fabric over the years, and it seems more likely to clog up with soil than be bothered that much by roots. I saw a lot of trees that had been grown in plastic burlap, and planted without having the plastic sliced or removed, leading to a failure of that tree to properly root.
Bob is your French drain still working?
Bumped into that client in the past year and he said it is still working fine.
Do these work in the wintertime?
They probably aren't very useful for non-liquid elements like snow & ice. (-;
We found over the years that "walking down" the soil with our feet on a project of this size and scope was always enough to take out the soil air space, but we did use your method when planting B&B trees. A layer of soil around the base of the tree ball as straightening it, foot stomp all around, another 10 shovels of soil, foot stomp, and so on, then saturating the hole with water once it is 2/3 full.
Thank you for a great video - showing from raw dirt hole, with weed fabric in the hole, with perforated pipe, with gravel, with feed block on top and with finished dirt/sod on top. You do great work!!!
If wondering, I did the exact same install layers at my main home 12 years ago. At that time, I used 3/8" round pea gravel (instead of the stone you used). This alternative gravel worked as well. And, its easier to shovel / bucket by hand. I went down 28" deep and ensured 6" of dirt on top payer. Today, my French drain still works great. IMO, French Drains should be mandatory in many wet back yards.
Note: For my French drain install, I installed 4" of 3/8" pea stone into the manually dug trench first. Then, installed the weed block fabric in the hole, then pipe, then added 3/8" pea gravel inside the wrapped weed block material. This 4" base of pea gravel allows more years - before the bottom of weed block material gets plugged with natural small silt. Probably over built / over kill for many but worked for my FD install (12 years ago).
Thank you for sharing your complete French Drain install video. Great work.
James Sounds like you went the extra mile! And with all that gravel, even if the fabric or perforated pipe clogs, the gravel should still carry water away. The theory behind using a 'chiseled' type gravel like 2b limestone is that the angled edges help create more openings between the stones for water to move through than a rounded gravel does. Hey, as long as it works!
Great video, thank you for posting!
+gtwerra As you will notice in this extensive comment section, there are many different opinions on the best way to install these types of drains, hope you find the best one for your particular situation.
To have the water run away from a problem site (foundation, low area) Use non perforated drain pipe, excavated soil compacted and no gravel to block the water from returning to the low area. Then use perforated drain pipe (I used all 3" PVC in all the non-perforated areas) with the landscape cloth completely around the gravel (2-3" around the pipe) to the end of the run. At the far end of the run, you may need, if the water is fast enough, to install a "T" at the end. The lower part of the "T" is filled with a gravel for 2 feet below the "T" for excess low water drainage. The upper part of the "T" is a vertical piece with a drainage grate at the top lawn level for excess water in the heat of a heavy storm.
Remember to slant the drainage pipe away from the house or low area until it is safe to begin using the perforated pipe.
I feel that using smooth PVC pipe helps the water flow more smoothly and leaves no water to breed mosquitoes, Where the pipe is perforated, it does not matter since the water drains out within a few hours anyway.
Thanks for sharing your methods and ideas. This pipe was added on as an extension to one the builder had already put in place, and there were some additional challenges navigating some sprinkler lines, cable TV cable, etc. I bumped into this client late last year (2019) as asked how this french drain was performing and he said, "Great!"
Pretty much what I did but the leach field is my garden. Like yours the popup is the overflow on top. I watered all of 3 times last summer (hot and dry in our area) but had bumper crops of tomatoes, peppers, cukes etc. All the water from spring's rain kept it wet all summer. This year promises to be even better with the soggy April.
We just had the 2nd wettest April in 2024, warming climate contributing.
It appears many home builders we have seen construct French drains in our area agree with you, since theirs lack any fabric, but most highway construction projects I've seen over the past 10 years all appear to use the fabric wrap method. Different strokes for different folks!
thank you bobscaping.i am adding several 10' solid sections to start of outlet. the outlet trench is close to 90' to daylight where i am doing combo drywell and popup. will wrap pipe in 6oz fabric that i am using to line the drain trench. I wish I had the nice soft soil depicted in your video, I have extremely thick rocky clay :( . Thank you again for the reply, I like your videos.
Thanks for watching!
We revisited this location today... the client said the french drain is doing the job and the soggy areas are gone. The lawn grass growth is noticeably reduced and sparser in the area where the ditch was cut, yet acceptable, considering the problem solved.
I suggest using the clay fill close to the wet area or foundation to block the water from back flow in high water days. Then after about 10 feet of clay fill, begin to use the fabric and gravel around the pipes until the end of the run, with the top 6 inches of good top soil if you have the depth. There is a need often for the drainage run to end in a "t" vertically to handle overflow from the pipe.
Thanks for sharing John, you sound like a soils engineer!
Connect the roof drains to that, run it out far enough away so the water does not return to the foundation to avoid basement flooding. I have a sump pump, which worked WITH the auxiliary pump, both pumping for 9 hours straight, and still got 4" of water in the house. Since I installed the french drains out to the lawn away from the foundation, the sump pump even rarely comes on.
Good advice, my home downspouts all drain to the surface, ever since we had some similar issues decades ago.
I thought never tie in roof water to French drain? Way to much volume and debris
For the portion of a French drain that only drains water (and is not intended to collect it) a solid pipe is best, but if you have to use perforated, wrap it in landscape fabric or black plastic to prevent the infiltration of dirt and debris into the pipe. Just keep in mind that a perforated pipe can dump water as well as collect it, so in certain applications that dumping of water is undesirable (like next to the foundation of a house).
The pipe has holes in it all the way around the circumference to allow water to enter the pipe. The pipe is then connected to a place you wish the water to flow (in this case another pipe) or the pipe can exit to the surface of the ground somewhere downhill.
Be sure to comment again in a couple years and let everyone know how well your method worked!
There are two schools of thought on whether to use landscape fabric or not. It is true that fabric will keep dirt from clogging the pipe, however, sometimes the fabric will clog after 5 to 10 years. It seems that most french drains will clog eventually. Another contractor I know feels that french drains are only effective in the long run if the gravel is run all the way to the surface, without any dirt and sod on top of the gravel.
I took my backyard water to under the garden. Dispose of water which would otherwise get into the basement and then have the garden area a permanent wet spot (oasis) instead of a soggy spot in the backyard where I originally had the water exit from a NDS pop-up onto the grass. Now that pop-up is a spillway for when the garden gets saturated from prolonged rains.
How about a follow-up report on your project?
And last summer with the drought in our area of the country I only watered 3 times the whole season but had bumper crops of everything. All from the previous spring's rains and snowmelt. The oasis theory panned out.
Rainfall totals have increased in our area since your post, we just had the 2nd wettest April on record!
UPDATE: We had a hot, very dry end to our Pittsburgh summer so I stopped by this project in the fall to see how things looked. The strip of sod above the french drain had dried-out and the grass had died, leaving about a 6-inch wide bare line in the turf above the drain. This would be another reason to run the gravel all the way to the surface, or place the drain deeper with more soil cover (but not heavy clay) as long as everything still drains properly.
You needed at least 4-6 inches of topsoil on top of the gravel.
...and maybe even more topsoil than that --or-- just run the gravel all the way to the surface. We had various limiting factors on that job: having to connect to a shallow existing french drain, as well as cable and utility lines to work around, but the homeowner told me last year it works great and he is happy with the job!
was going to say the exact same thing. It might be worth lining just the bottom by laying some flat but lining the sides as well is actually countering the drainage as you said.
One contractor told me he leaves the gravel all the way up to the surface.
Sounds sort of like a rain garden!
Thanks for video. Reading below - pity about the turf dying. The shallow drain I'm working on doesn't and will not have turf laid ontop - it's just a barren area mostly clay, but I'm using a socked ag pipe (with landscape mat surround) but looking at your vid I'll just lay gravel over it. This area is at moment with the amount of rain we have had is just one huge soggy mud patch - fortunately no traffic over it. Anyway all good and picked up some good tips. I live in Sydney Australia so instead of snow I'm just battling hot, humid February weather with lots of rain. Cheers.
+limolee007 The famous weather forecasting ground hog Punxsutawney Phil just forecast an early spring here!
+bobscaping You never can tell with global warming - the hog may have nailed it! LOL
+limolee007 Did you see where a Pennsylvania politician (State Rep Peter Daley) got miffed at the Weather Channel's meteorologist Stephanie Abrams for referring to Punxsutawney Phil as "just a rodent." He even sent a formal letter demanding a public apology!
+bobscaping Well you got to look after a State Treasure! I finished off the drain this morning - it was only a small one really and sorry - going to use metric measurements here, but it was only a small diameter socked ag pipe 65mm x 16 metre length. I've found landscape mat pretty expensive, so use weed mat instead - I know weedmat does allow water through, but it blocks up after a while. I like your limestone gravel - I used this time a 10mm recycled concrete. I haven't wrapped it or anything as it's on this barren area and we'll probably lay down tree mulch over the top.
I'm doing this sort of thing with drainage every now & then and it's good to pick up tips and see how others do it. So thanks again Bob. If you ever venture downunder to Sydney let us know!
Yes, any soil used to cover the French drain should be of good quality and drain better than heavy clay, this will also help lawn growth in that area.
I am doing a popup and a drywell at the end of my outlet trench to allow part of the water to leach into the soil below and the overflow out on top. I am using a 6oz Non-woven geotextile fabric to line the drain trench and to wrap the outlet pipes. For back fill I am bringing in a sandy loam to allow for permeability from above due to the extreme clay soil. for the rocks I am using a septic rock rated at 1 1/2 to 2". Also using smooth wall pipe to allow cleaning if they become clogged.
Please report back and let everyone know how your project worked.
Worked great. No additional flooding during the remaining time I lived at the house. I did sell it back in 2017.
The first thing to figure out is where you are going to pipe the water to. You shouldn't direct the water to a neighbor's property, because then your water can become their problem, and may bring legal issues. Running it to the curb can cause winter icing. You can take it to another area of the lawn and allow it to drain onto the surface. Or as you alluded to, pipe it into a large gravel pit, known as a dry well. While not a preferred method, it can be piped into a downspout on your house.
We have never seen any problems when using good quality 2b limestone, the same type of gravel that is used on many unpaved driveways in Pennsylvania. If you used an inferior product, then you might have problems. We don't have any experience with septic drainfields, that is probably an entirely new set of issues.
Split-verdict on fabric use, do both methods eventually fail? A French drain we installed 7 years earlier quit working efficiently. I felt it was due to clogged fabric on top of the drain - the gravel was still very clean. We removed the top fabric and added 2b limestone clear to the surface (in that main low spot) and it has been working fine since. My current conclusion: Soil over top of fabric can create problems over time, so use gravel to the surface if it is visually alright.
Nice video - one of the best for this. And appreciate your honesty in one of your comments after revisiting the client regarding the sod... Presumably, the drainage drains the nutrients away, or the soil is too thin for the grass to thrive?
jimmicreesti Some French drains are dug deeper, but then there is a risk of them not working as well. And as we have seen from many comments here, as well as what I hear from other contractors, having the gravel run all the way to the surface is the best solution, if it is not in a front lawn where the aesthetics of that gravel strip running through the lawn would not be unacceptable as was the case with the lawn in this video. This particular lawn is fertilized four times a year so nutrient levels would not be a major issue.
bobscaping I have put in one of these drains for a client and left the agri (limestone) close to the surface of a new lawn, and the drainage seems to be working too well, because lately the marks of the drain are showing up on the lawn, are you saying that if the lawn is fed regularly the marks should disappear.
Matt Farrelly
Here is a comment I posted last year on this video:
UPDATE: We had a hot, very dry end to our Pittsburgh summer so I stopped by this project in the fall to see how things looked. The strip of sod above the french drain had dried-out and the grass had died, leaving about a 6-inch wide bare line in the turf above the drain. This would be
another reason to run the gravel all the way to the surface, or place the drain deeper with more soil cover (but not heavy clay) as long as everything still drains properly.
I have a few questions concerning the installation of this type of drain. I would like to know if you place the grass back on top of the gravel, does it slow down the drainage?Do you need a pipe above ground for some type of "air flow"?How do you know how much of a slope is needed when you do this type of drain, and finally do you need to cover the pipe in some type of "sock"
Tonda McInnis Replies to your 4 questions: 1) One contractor I know runs gravel all the way to the surface for the best percolation, but water will drain down through grass sod and grass is more pleasing to the eye. It is always advisable to have the surface of the ground graded for good runoff in case the ground is frozen. 2) Never heard of using above ground pipe for "air flow." 3) Any slope at all will help promote water flow. 4) Some french drain pipe comes with a "filter sock" wrapped around it, but in this case we used landscape fabric to enclose the entire ditch, gravel and drain pipe.
Hi iam doing the same kind of work and your video is very helpful. But i have a question. Do i need to put some gravel before laying the pipe or gravel is fine just on top.
Laurent Victoire The perforated pipe is typically at the bottom of the ditch.
Tks For The vid! What kind Of fabric Is that? Yup, Landscaping fabric , can I use "construcción plastic? The one Used For foundations...
+joaquin698 That's a woven landscape fabric which will allow water to pass through it. Plastic will not allow water to pass through it so it should not be used for this purpose.
I use pvc pipe and drill small holes in it. Does the trick every time
+Adam Woodard I've seen some rigid french drain pipe at stores here with pre-drilled holes running along two opposite sides.
Hi Bob, thanks for the vid. My area of Tennessee is unbelievable clay. I have a section of land about 20 ' wide and 300' long that just gets saturated every winter (rainy season here). The water sits there for months until the weather gets warm and dry. At the end of the land is a run off ditch that I can let it drain into. Will this system work in such a clay area?
First you should make sure you are OK legally channeling water to that run-off ditch. If that's OK, and the french drain you install has some "fall" to it (so water runs downhill to the ditch) it should work.
Thanks for getting back to me Bob.
If the fabric isn't put there, then soil/mud will fill the pipe, clogging it. The fabric will cause only water to enter the pipe. Some people use a special tile called a geotex tile, to encase all four sides, causing only water to seep through, and flow into the pipe
Lots and lots of varying opinions on French drains, as you will see in the comment section.
running a French drain from the front corner of a front foundation landscape bed of a house -why would I have to use the fabric and stone once I get 5 ft from the intake if the pipe is not perforated on lawn area-'my' goal is to just get the water running along the bed to where the downspout is and lawn starts where I put the surface drain-no prob w/ running the 1st 5ft w/fab & gravel but is the rest really nessesary if I just want the flow ?
4cClubT Sure thing, you can even use a 90-degree elbow and straight section of aluminum downspout pipe to get water a few feet from your foundation and onto your lawn. Aluminum doesn't stand up very well to 'crushing' from foot traffic but works well.
You should have redone the older drain you are tying into and billed the customer for the extra work, that one looked caked with mud. Yours looks great!
I am doing one now and it is looking pretty good, nice downgrade and deep, should last quite some time.
civilizeddog The client indicated the old drain was working fine, plus you will find that most clients have limited budgets and are not always in favor of add-ons. Always remember the old saying; "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Thanks for your reply. Now I just need to figure out my clay issue. I am digging up clay (brown sticky hard as a rock clay). I don't think it should go back in but rather black dirt instead. I am afraid if I put the clay back on top the french drain and gravel it will not even make it to it. What do you think?
One contractor I know recommends gravel all the way to the surface, hard to argue with that!
On my property there's a 13 by 25 ft long piece of lawn that gets soaking wet every time it rains, and stays wet about 4-5 days. Would one such drain running in the middle suffice to drain surface water or would there be need for more of these ?
+Grégory Hertel If you run it along the lowest part of that area it should work.
+bobscaping Ok, thanks.
Please let us know how your project turned out, what you did and how well it worked at solving the problem?
bobscaping Dug a trench, lined it with fabric, used gravel instead of limestone, did the same as you guys. Our village would not allow me to hook up on existing installations so i had to dig a "small" draining-well. Works like a charm. Thanks again for this video.
without the fabric over time silt and roots will build up filling in all the space between the rock. Thus making the french drain worthless and leading to redoing it.
We've also seen the fabric prevent water penetration over time.
I am using smooth wall perforated pipe for the drain portion. the pipe will be set at bottom of my foundation and will run the entire length of the house and out toward the back yard where the pipe will take a very long 90 to an outlet pipe. the out let pipe i am using is also smooth wall but with three holes instead of two for the french. question. on the outlet pipe , does it also need to be surrounded in rock etc as the drain portion will be or just put the sock on it and back fill?
Just the part receiving water needs the gravel.
Is limestone gravel better than river rock for a french drain?
2b limestone is the general recommendation, but having a layer of river rock on the surface (if the french drain is not covered with any sod or grass) would surely look better.
I am putting the final stages on the FD and a question regarding fabric. My soil is clay (hard clay) should I do the bottom fabric, bottom and top, or neither? There are conflicting thoughts. I just don't want to dig it up in a month. Thanks.
Lots of debate about the 'proper method' and we often hear that "all french drains eventually fail."
In reply to this question 2 days ago:
"i have part of my land that id love to drain for spring, but what do you do when there is nowhere to lead the water too?"
Watch this video:
ua-cam.com/video/cNZsci-cBwc/v-deo.html
why landscape fabric? and why limestone?
oldnotweak The intent of the landscape fabric is to keep soil from washing into the gravel and clogging it so that water no longer percolates through it well.
Limestone (2b size) is widely available in our area and commonly used for french drain projects like this as well as being used for a drainage base under concrete driveways and sidewalks.
bobscaping thanks for the info
the drain have to end up somewhere to alleviate the water or is there to collect excess water to be drained into the earth slowly?
Oldtimers often used "dry wells" where they would pipe water into a gravel-filled hole "to drain into the earth slowly." We had a home downspout designed like that, and the problem became when the hole filled with water and it backflowed to flood the foundation. Mostly clay soil here, that doesn't drain well. My solution was to "daylight" the downspout pipe to the backyard, so the water runs over the surface of a lawn area. Daylighting won't work for everyone though.
Does it need drill holes underneath the pipe?
Two schools of thought on that... some saying having holes facing down allows water to enter the pipe more easily, while others say that eliminates some of the pipe's ability to carry water away. With this perforated flexible pipe in the video, it has holes all the way around, solving any deliberations like one might have with the rigid type of pipe with holes on opposite sides.
Please see the comment I posted above.
I can see your French drain and you hook it up to the main drain at the end, so what is the use of using gravel and fabric if it is hook up with the main drain..I don't get it....
William Dizon The gravel provides an easy pathway for the water to enter into the 4-inch perforated 'French drain' pipe. The fabric is used to help prevent soil sediment from clogging the gravel. (Some brands of perforated pipe come already wrapped in landscape fabric) Since the water has to have someplace to go, we found attaching it to the existing French drain system was the most effective and logical method of disposing of water. In essence, we extended the length of the existing French drain. There are several ways to do these sorts of drains -- One home contractor I know feels you have to run the gravel all the way to the surface of the lawn for the French drain to work best and remain effective for a longer period of time.
do u have to use gravel?
That is probably the most important component of all.
no lawn would ever survive on 1 inch of soil. The water retention in that 1" is nowhere near what that lawn will need in the heat. Dig a deeper trench and use hard pipe with a couple of obscure surface drains.
+jcjanzer Nurseries keep sod alive on top of gravel or blacktop while waiting to sell it provided it has daily irrigation. This lawn has daily irrigation with a sprinkler system.
i redo french drains like this one all the time / you dont cover pipe and rock with sod .duhh
Harold Lesser Wrong. French Drains with decorative exposed stone may be more effective and can be placed along garden or fence edges etc. as a border or "dry stream" ( a nice landscape element) but if the low area of a yard is in a turfed area, then turf cover is appropriate and still very effective. The below grade gravel will "suck" in water from surrounding soil, even in clayey soils. The most important thing is to wrap the stone in fabric to isolate from soil to prevent intrusion and clogging the system.
Len Blakley,RLA JJBasement and Yards , NoVa
I bumped into the homeowner we did that job and asked how the french drain was performing, and he said "Great!" To your point, we did another one this way and it was the fabric layer over top of the gravel (and pipe) that clogged, so we cut that away -- this is the reason some people like to run gravel all the way to the surface -- but that's hard to do when the drain runs down the middle of a nice lawn. In any case, the trench filled with gravel should help water drainage some, even with limited pipe flow.
the fabric part is a waste of money. it's an obstacle for the water to enter the drainage.
Lots of varying opinions on French drains, as you will see in this comment section. I did notice the local highway department uses that same fabric method, maybe their engineers are out of touch with reality, ya think?