Another great video! And for you 4th gen Nova fans (1975-79), the front subframe is completely different with a different steering setup. 1975-79 Nova subframes are similar to 1970-81 Camaros. 3rd gen Novas are “rear steer” while 4th gens are “front steer”. Rear steer means the steering box is located behind the front wheels while front steer means the steering box is ahead of the front wheels.
@@Shop209 Hey John. I’ve heard a rumor that a 4th gen subframe will bolt to the 3rd gen body with just some different body bushings or body bushing spacers. Now, the front will be different but it makes me wonder if it’s possible to put the more modern (meaning designed for radial tires) 4th gen subframe on 3rd gens to make it drive better and provide more header clearance (since the steering box is moved). I’ll bet the front of the subframe and the radiator support could be modified to allow a 3rd gen front clip attach. You seem like the right person to try that! 😆
Very good advice. My 69 only has 2.5 deg caster with Detroit Speed upper arms and the Gulstand mod. Back in the day i rebuilt all my stock stuff and yes it is a pain and dangerous.
Shop 209 "John" has been instrumental in my 1972 Nova build. I am so close to setting in the 383 Stroker, just waiting on the (400) Flex Plate and its go Time! Thank you for everything Shop 209!
Whenever you get that Bel Air back in the shop, are you going to be rebuilding the control arms and suspension? That would be a great time to show us how you would upgrade an ild chevy!
to replace lower control arm bushings, you use an air chisel to cut the old one out if your replacing the whole bushing. some poly bushings require keep the old sleeve, so instead use a drill to drill the rubber out. also, find an outer wheel bearing race from a front wheel drive car that is the same width as the space between the control arm ears, cut it in half and stick it between the ears when you go to push the new bushing in. the piece of wheel bearing race will keep you from bending the control arm and ruining it.
Also the pontiac Ventura 2 which looks a lot like the nova,, came out in 1971 is the same sub frame, dont confuse this car with the big Ventura which was a full sized car, we bought a Ventura 2 in 1971 because we liked the looks of the poncho better than the Nova, but dont hate me, because we have owend many Novas.
An air chisel is your friend when getting the bushings out. I use the rounded tip to deform and collapse the bushing into a goofy star shape, then the edged chisel to drive them out. Makes short work of them and you can avoid damaging the arms. I used that method to do the Ventura subframe and suspension. Its all polyurethane now with solid body and engine mounts. Pontiac mounts are kinda cool, they hang behind the crossmember and have supports that go between the top plate and LCA bolt. I don't know how chevy mounts are, just Pontiac stuff. The thing I like most about the Ventura and the 67-69 F bodys is how much room I have for the exhaust, Pontiac headers are wildly simple. The Ventura was a straight 6 and powerglide with a 3.08 geared open rear. I kept the gears and installed a Yukon diff. This thing is gonna be tons of fun with a 400 I built years ago that pushed my heavier 79 Formula into the mid 12s. Have to do the rear springs later this year, right now I need to get the winter beater Silverado in to do wheel bearings, replace the transmission selector arm because its rusted so much the cable won't stay on it, and replace a rear rotor and pads. Fun times working with rusty junk.
I used to use an air chisel on ball joints. No I just hit it with grinder. My ears are pretty much shot so the chisel only comes out when I HAVE to. I love pontiacs. Would like to build another one day. I had a 79 firebird with a 69 WT block, #62 heads and a decent cam. Torker intake with 750 Holley. It went 12.89 with 308 gears and a 245/60/15 radial t/a tire. Thing would HAUL!
Ride tech actually specifically built a kit for the Camaro/Nova called the "try turn" kit, and it's specifically built to fix the suspension geometry issues they have. One question I have is how would someone reinforce the shock mount on the lower a arm? I'm thinking that would be a priority if someone were to run coil overs on the factory bits. I saw someone mentioned that their Nova sat a little high with their spring choice, and I gotta throw out there to use a chop saw or cut off wheel to cut springs, because they are heat treated, and a blowtorch removed that treatment, basically making the spring into a spaghetti noodle. The saw and cut off wheel can't put nearly as much heat into the spring. Also, does moving the tires outward with those offset shafts affect the space you have for tires? I remember you said that novas can run 235's up front, but would that be affected by those shafts?
I’ve seen the Tru Turn set up. It fixes a few issues. The offset shafts do not give you any extra room. Honestly, cutting springs is a bad way to lower. Cutting coils off of a spring increases spring rate and changes compression.
I'm using 6312 springs. They were a pain to get in but there in . Car sits a bit high in front. Had alignment it's good but wish I would of bought a springs a little lower 70 nova 4 door
Back when I was playing with Novas, I always used solid subframe-to-body mounts. Everyone on the popular Nova message board at the time kept repeating each others' nonsense about noise, vibration, blah blah blah. Seriously though, think about it- Once you install solid frame mount bushings, you've just created the SAME scenario that the Ford and Dodge cars of the era had, as well as every single unit-body car made from the 70s to present day- a suspension mounted to the structure of the car. And no, I experienced NO CHANGE in noise or vibration going from the rubber mounts to the solid ones. What I DID experience is body panels always maintaining their gaps and alignments since there was no rubber to rot and collapse. P.S.- I have seen exactly two factory 4-cylinder Novas in my life, both at car shows. Both had personalized license plates- "SLOVA" and "NOGO." At least the owners knew what they were getting into!
Lol. Maybe one day I’ll see a 4 cyl nova. As far as the aluminum body mounts, I can feel a little bit more vibration thru then but only because I know they’re solid. Also the car in video has solid mounts.
LOL, that NOGO is great. In spanish "va" means "to go", which is why Nova's made in Argentina were called Chevrolet Chevy instead of Chevrolet No"Go' (Nova).
Hey shop 209 I put disk brakes on the front of my 69 nova what master cylinder do I need to use I got one for front disk and rear drum but it feels like the front right is dragging any ideas
On my 72 I put tubular upper and lower arms and just today I had to cut off my upper arm mount and move them outward 3/8 of an inch to get the camber right. It's getting to near 300k miles on the subframe.
does any one know the measurement on 3rd gen rear steer 1973 / front outside to front outside sub frame . where the bumper bolt up ????? and can i put the 72 /71 grill& bumper on ??? thanks
Shop 209 classes are very helpful. Keep them coming
Another great video!
And for you 4th gen Nova fans (1975-79), the front subframe is completely different with a different steering setup. 1975-79 Nova subframes are similar to 1970-81 Camaros.
3rd gen Novas are “rear steer” while 4th gens are “front steer”. Rear steer means the steering box is located behind the front wheels while front steer means the steering box is ahead of the front wheels.
Crap. I filmed that part and forgot to put it in.
@@Shop209 Hey John. I’ve heard a rumor that a 4th gen subframe will bolt to the 3rd gen body with just some different body bushings or body bushing spacers. Now, the front will be different but it makes me wonder if it’s possible to put the more modern (meaning designed for radial tires) 4th gen subframe on 3rd gens to make it drive better and provide more header clearance (since the steering box is moved). I’ll bet the front of the subframe and the radiator support could be modified to allow a 3rd gen front clip attach. You seem like the right person to try that! 😆
Actually I’ve been looking for a 4th gen subframe to try it.
@@Shop209 You turned a 4-door into a 2-door. If there is anyone on the planet that can make a 4th gen subframe work- it's YOU!
@@Shop209please try even if does no work we ll see WTF love You Chanel gracias
Great video! Impressive the amount of knowledge you have on these cars!
Thank you!
Very good advice. My 69 only has 2.5 deg caster with Detroit Speed upper arms and the Gulstand mod. Back in the day i rebuilt all my stock stuff and yes it is a pain and dangerous.
just ordered my smith racecraft tubular subframe, I can't stand the stock look. Love the channel and the info u provide, keep it coming
Glad to see ya back, Hope you & the family had a wonderful New Year's!👍
Cool. Info !
That was informative. I just so happen to be getting ready to do this on my 70 Nova. Thanks!
Shop 209 "John" has been instrumental in my 1972 Nova build. I am so close to setting in the 383 Stroker, just waiting on the (400) Flex Plate and its go Time! Thank you for everything Shop 209!
Thank You!!! I appreciate your support!
I got my drivers license in a Nova that didn’t have power steering or power brakes. It was rough parallel parking and 3 point turning.
I had one like that, and had no problem.
Trooper told me I didn’t know what turn signals were for
I wish that information this good was available on my 75 nova. But I'm guessing that a lot of it will still apply
Whenever you get that Bel Air back in the shop, are you going to be rebuilding the control arms and suspension? That would be a great time to show us how you would upgrade an ild chevy!
to replace lower control arm bushings, you use an air chisel to cut the old one out if your replacing the whole bushing. some poly bushings require keep the old sleeve, so instead use a drill to drill the rubber out. also, find an outer wheel bearing race from a front wheel drive car that is the same width as the space between the control arm ears, cut it in half and stick it between the ears when you go to push the new bushing in. the piece of wheel bearing race will keep you from bending the control arm and ruining it.
Great info. That helps me. Thanks
Also the pontiac Ventura 2 which looks a lot like the nova,, came out in 1971 is the same sub frame, dont confuse this car with the big Ventura which was a full sized car, we bought a Ventura 2 in 1971 because we liked the looks of the poncho better than the Nova, but dont hate me, because we have owend many Novas.
An air chisel is your friend when getting the bushings out. I use the rounded tip to deform and collapse the bushing into a goofy star shape, then the edged chisel to drive them out. Makes short work of them and you can avoid damaging the arms. I used that method to do the Ventura subframe and suspension.
Its all polyurethane now with solid body and engine mounts. Pontiac mounts are kinda cool, they hang behind the crossmember and have supports that go between the top plate and LCA bolt. I don't know how chevy mounts are, just Pontiac stuff. The thing I like most about the Ventura and the 67-69 F bodys is how much room I have for the exhaust, Pontiac headers are wildly simple.
The Ventura was a straight 6 and powerglide with a 3.08 geared open rear. I kept the gears and installed a Yukon diff. This thing is gonna be tons of fun with a 400 I built years ago that pushed my heavier 79 Formula into the mid 12s. Have to do the rear springs later this year, right now I need to get the winter beater Silverado in to do wheel bearings, replace the transmission selector arm because its rusted so much the cable won't stay on it, and replace a rear rotor and pads. Fun times working with rusty junk.
I used to use an air chisel on ball joints. No I just hit it with grinder. My ears are pretty much shot so the chisel only comes out when I HAVE to. I love pontiacs. Would like to build another one day. I had a 79 firebird with a 69 WT block, #62 heads and a decent cam. Torker intake with 750 Holley. It went 12.89 with 308 gears and a 245/60/15 radial t/a tire. Thing would HAUL!
Great info video gracias 🎉
What brand ball joints did you use
I need to get a trailer hitch on my 73. How’d you do it!??
Ride tech actually specifically built a kit for the Camaro/Nova called the "try turn" kit, and it's specifically built to fix the suspension geometry issues they have. One question I have is how would someone reinforce the shock mount on the lower a arm? I'm thinking that would be a priority if someone were to run coil overs on the factory bits. I saw someone mentioned that their Nova sat a little high with their spring choice, and I gotta throw out there to use a chop saw or cut off wheel to cut springs, because they are heat treated, and a blowtorch removed that treatment, basically making the spring into a spaghetti noodle. The saw and cut off wheel can't put nearly as much heat into the spring. Also, does moving the tires outward with those offset shafts affect the space you have for tires? I remember you said that novas can run 235's up front, but would that be affected by those shafts?
Damned auto correct. It's "Tru turn" not "try turn" ugh. Ride tech Tru turn.
I’ve seen the Tru Turn set up. It fixes a few issues. The offset shafts do not give you any extra room. Honestly, cutting springs is a bad way to lower. Cutting coils off of a spring increases spring rate and changes compression.
I'm using 6312 springs. They were a pain to get in but there in . Car sits a bit high in front. Had alignment it's good but wish I would of bought a springs a little lower 70 nova 4 door
I’m gonna go kinda deep on my spring tech video.
Back when I was playing with Novas, I always used solid subframe-to-body mounts. Everyone on the popular Nova message board at the time kept repeating each others' nonsense about noise, vibration, blah blah blah. Seriously though, think about it- Once you install solid frame mount bushings, you've just created the SAME scenario that the Ford and Dodge cars of the era had, as well as every single unit-body car made from the 70s to present day- a suspension mounted to the structure of the car. And no, I experienced NO CHANGE in noise or vibration going from the rubber mounts to the solid ones. What I DID experience is body panels always maintaining their gaps and alignments since there was no rubber to rot and collapse. P.S.- I have seen exactly two factory 4-cylinder Novas in my life, both at car shows. Both had personalized license plates- "SLOVA" and "NOGO." At least the owners knew what they were getting into!
Lol. Maybe one day I’ll see a 4 cyl nova. As far as the aluminum body mounts, I can feel a little bit more vibration thru then but only because I know they’re solid. Also the car in video has solid mounts.
LOL, that NOGO is great. In spanish "va" means "to go", which is why Nova's made in Argentina were called Chevrolet Chevy instead of Chevrolet No"Go' (Nova).
What brand ball joints do you recommend
A teacher at my HS in the early 80’s had a nice first gen plain Jane Nova , 4 cylinder manual trans , that’s the only one I’ve ever seen .
Hey shop 209 I put disk brakes on the front of my 69 nova what master cylinder do I need to use I got one for front disk and rear drum but it feels like the front right is dragging any ideas
On my 72 I put tubular upper and lower arms and just today I had to cut off my upper arm mount and move them outward 3/8 of an inch to get the camber right. It's getting to near 300k miles on the subframe.
Yeah. Some frames are beat to death.
THERE VERY GOOD TO DRAFT ON A STREET ROD FRAME HAVE ONE ON A 39 STUDEBAKER FRAME ! 😁👌
What tubular control arms are you using. CPPI? Do you like them? Im looking to up grade.
does any one know the measurement on 3rd gen rear steer 1973 / front outside to front outside sub frame . where the bumper bolt up ????? and can i put the 72 /71 grill& bumper on ??? thanks
ua-cam.com/video/jvlU0A9nTX4/v-deo.htmlsi=r6bjCL4c6MekXcZW