Before commander got popular most casual groups were just playing FFA with regular 60 card decks. Many still do. I think commander makes that format more fun but I just want to correct that the magic FFA rules existed before Commander and were used by a lot of players before commander.
@TheTrueChaks I had no less than 4 separate friend groups that just hung out at each other's houses or college campuses playing FFA games. Only one of those groups transitioned to commander and this was just before the official acknowledgment, the other groups didn't want to even years after wizards started supporting it.
I never think you’re too harsh on Commander. I actually think it’s rare for anyone to actually criticize its many flaws. I’m more annoyed by how poorly all criticism is taken.
My group play around with "formats" for our games. One of the formats we play is Guild Wars. Each commander must be a legendary creature from one of the Ravnica guilds, and ALL the cards in the deck other then basic lands must have the guild water mark. We also play with planes. Where all the cards in the deck must be from the same plane as the commander, except for planeswalkers.
@@distractionmakers Im a Vorthos and a game designer, so I like experimenting with formats that force the rules to conform to the lore hehe Another cool format we did was 2headedGiant Commander. One side had yo use cards from mirrodin without the phyrexian watermark. And the other side only cards with the Phyrexian watermark hehe
i think commander is a horrible place to onboard newbies into learning how to play, since keeping track of 4 people with no repeated cards is a lot to carry in your head when you're still asking if planeswalkers are creatures. yet, i think you do touch on a lot of why it's a great place to hook a player in, with a compelling leader of the deck who sort of sums up what the deck wants to do in the space of one card, and the dynamics of hanging out with 3 others for a good hour or two or three
I don’t disagree with your point about learning difficulty in EDH, but I’m hesitant to expose a new player to 60-card if they’re firm on intending to play a lot of regular EDH. The *very last* thing EDH needs is more people entering the play-space with the idea that winning the duel is the #1 priority. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that long time 60-card players. *Particularly* ex-Modern players make up a huge percentage of those players that, while they don’t want to engage with cEDH, *do* want to constantly play very powerful, highly consistent decks on Friday at the LGS. And why wouldn’t they think high-power Combo is the way to go? That’s what they learned works so well in 60-card. I’d rather work harder on helping a new player learn MtG in the suboptimal way that onboarding them with EDH represents, rather than expose a blank slate to 2 separate and often diametrically opposed play-cultures. I’ve only been back with MtG for EDH for the past 12 months, so I’ve only played w/ maybe a hundred different players 3 or more times each, which makes my sample size quite small. Nevertheless, literally *all* of the most problematic EDH players I’ve encountered were long time 60 card players whose various issues tend to be derivative of their prioritizing *winning* , with their next-highest priority at the table a very distant 2nd/3rd/4th to that topmost imperative. cEDH provides a wonderful play-space for players who want to continue the methodology they honed in one or more 60-card formats, but the problem arises that regular EDH play-spaces are far more numerous/frequent. All of which, as I said, makes me reluctant to expose friends just getting into MtG to both a 60-card format *and* EDH simultaneously.
I like how you two talk about commander as the best and worst of MtG. Which sounds about right. I'd love to see WotC or someone take the commander format and make a tcg explicitly based around it, system and all
@@alexanderficken9354 I think part of it is also the ability to attach to a specific card representing your deck/you, in the way Hearthstone and SC2 co-op commanders were popular.
All the problems with Commander are inherent problems with multiplayer games, and there is no solution. The only problem that isn’t inherent to the commander is the RC's incompetence in managing the format.
I disagree, there are solutions to the multiplayer problem but you can't marry 1v1 game systems with multiplayer game systems. I think that's the main problem.
Regarding Bartle's Taxonomy of Player Types - I had the pleasure to meet him and have a quick chat about the topic when I studied game development. He said that his theory is, and I quote, "rubbish". He published an updated version of it that includes an additional axis (implicit/explicit), but isn't entirely happy with that one either. I still think it's a useful tool for analyzing player motivations, but I don't believe you can't neatly place individual players into any given category.
I think Commander is such a strange casual format, because a game night in my experience has never been about playing 1 game of a single game, but rather playing several games or several matches, because that way everyone experiences the game and has multiple chances to have a better experience. Commander demands time, the turn-taking is not dynamic enough to not turn players into spectators, waiting for their turn to come, which ends up being boring, and singleton deckbuilding ends up requiring greater knowledge from the player on how to build a fun and playable deck. I don't see this type of occurrence in a casual game of Standard or Modern, the games end faster, deckbuilding is more direct and it's not so simple to go infinite in the first turn, and it doesn't matter if WotC says that Standard and Modern are only 1v1, play tag-team or 1v1v1v1, the cards are yours, screw the tournaments.
Honestly, yeah. Despite all its faults, a lot of this is why I still use Commander when introducing new players to Magic. Everyone gets to play as a group; everyone gets one big cool "leader" card that they can think of as "theirs" (or, for their opponent's commanders, as someone else's); and there's much less concern about being "bad at the game" when things are much less ruthless. In a 1v1 format, when your opponent has lethal they either kill you easily, or consciously and obviously go easy on you, which feels bad either way. In a free for all, resources spent to finish someone off are resources *not* spent on taking down the biggest threat, which means unskilled or new players have much more leniency and can keep participating even if they can't keep up with the strongest player in the group.
Interesting points! I learned playing 1v1 with a friend who had decks prepared. I don't know if they were his standard decks or something lower complexity like a precon, but whichever it was, there weren't too many words. I really appreciated the environment where I could stop the game to ask questions, there would only be a few cards on board, and I could jam in 7 games before we had to go. I've since assumed Commander would be awful for new players, but you made me see there are a lot of advantages for groups after they know the basics.
@@cheeseitup1971 Exactly! My process has been very similar. I've been starting my friends off with 1v1s on Cockatrice (so no physical cards required) that have each of us use a fairly simple mono-green stompy 60-card decklist. This gives them a chance to understand the general flow of the game, and especially to get some practice with how combat works. After that, once they have an understanding of the fundamentals (and have confirmed an interest in continuing to play), that's when I pivot them over to Commander. I take some input on the sort of deck they'd like to try out, then build them an EDH deck to their specs. Did they really enjoy the giant monsters? Was their favourite play to be all sneaky-like with instant-speed combat tricks? Do they like vampires, cats, elves? Lots of questions, really more of a conversation than a Q&A, which I then use to try and pick out commanders and/or general deck ideas that I think they'll like. Once that's locked in - once they have a "leader" card and a general strategic concept that excites them - we're really in business. I write them up an EDH decklist, run a few mirror matches so they can try it out and request any modifications, and set them loose on the world.
So as "The Socializer" in a lo of games like... I really appreciate this discussion. Though like I also squeaked in convos and stuff DURING GAMES in 1v1. I remember setting the pace of a game by talking fast and slapping down cards without looking at my hand or draws until my opponents turn and we ended up quipping and joking around and so on because as it turned out that sort of socialization is fun sometimes.
I remember an experience I had once when I went to an FNM, and I was trying to talk and chat with my opponent, but he was almost ignoring me. I kinda felt bad for him because he seemed uncomfortable, but I wanted some more banter. I've had the most success with playing with friends at home.
@@shorewall if you go to Commander nights it's much easier, but some tables will kinda just be like that. Honestly the better half of socializing is trying to socialize and failing lol
This channel has been fun to binge. My friends wanted me to try Commander (I play Yugioh). I immediately upended the power scale of the pod…. For the life of me, I couldn’t figure out why I created such a problem 😅
Small dispute regarding “precons tend to mostly be comprised of cards from their set” - while this may be true for older precons, the modern era of magic appear to only have 10 - 15 or so cards from the main set in them. Although, there are “unique commander” cards from many of the latest sets. As an example with Bloomburrow, there’s the standard BLB set symbol and BLC for the commander-specific cards. I’m not entirely sure about the breakdown of numbers for what’s commander-specific or not but I support the notion of trying to create decks that have more limitations to where cards are coming from for a more flavor-rich experience.
I would like to see you revisit Lorcana now that it is on its 5th set and had it's 1st errata/functional ban. Zan Syed or Frank Karstan from MTG fame may be a good person to talk to about all of the nuances.
@@distractionmakers Have y'all talked to Frank Karsten before? You can probably get a few episodes out of it. He won Lorcana's first European Challenge (like a Grand Prix) and I know you've talked about his myriad contributions around Land optimization before.
Before even watching more of the Video: You might confuse being accused with hating the format. Being critical is not strictly a bad thing or a sign of disdain. A friend of mine once said to me "do you even like anything?! You always find so many reasons to criticise things." And it's mostly the things I criticise that I tend to enjoy. Be more critical without being accusing, everyone. It's how we grow as people, artists and society.
Commander is such an enigmatic beast. It's so apparently, incredibly successful in creating fun and meaningful ways to enjoy the game, yet it is also a an incredibly flawed format from a technical standpoint. I love it, despite its many short comings. There is a reason that it has captured so many players, despite it not seeming to be a good starting MTG experience on paper.
Here's my question for you: How would you tweak the rules of Commander so that it better achieves the goals it is trying to meet? Maybe this is more a video topic than a comment, but I'd love to hear what changes you might try! (Also mad shoutout to Bartle's Taxonomy, loved learning about that in my Game Design class)
That’s a good idea. We’ll probably do a video about it. Off the top of my head I think: 1. 20 life (maybe 25) 2. Commanders are shuffled in or subject to deck randomness somehow 3. Some kind of limit to the card pool. Either a rotation or limited by your commander choice to their plane. 4. Limit to who you can directly interact with or everyone interacts with a 3rd party. 5. A proper ban list.
Towards the middle you mention deck constructing around planes and I just have to mention that to a certain degree we have this in the form of tribal commanders. Even with wider reaching tribes like Goblins or Elves, there's enough that you can still narrow a large swath of your deck to within a plane of your choice, while a tribe like Otters, you'll end up predominantly pulling from Bloomburrow anyways due to smaller size.
It's also worth noting that part of what makes Commander good is that Singleton is just a particularly compelling (and, IMHO, the best) way of playing Magic. Admittedly, as you've pointed out in previous videos, the advantages of Singleton are mitigated somewhat in Commander by the way the Commander itself incentivizes degenerate combos, but that doesn't completely wipe out those advantages.
I can’t entirely agree. I’ve built plenty of decks that ran single copies of several cards, but mandatory singleton actively prevents me from wanting to play Commander.
@@jacobd1984 In singleton, you just look for duplicate effects. If in 60 card formats you want a 4 of, then in Commander you want about 7 duplicate effects to be equivalent.
I like 4 ofs, because it narrows down your deck's focus to your signature spells. But I also think singleton is a really meaningful restriction. And it tests your ability to find duplicate effects for what you want to do.
It's definitely been both amazing and terrible in my experience. Love isaac, four souls has some great commanderesque ffa going. Limited to one action on opponents turns is great but the items break that. "Threat of activation" grinds games to a halt at times
I feel like smth people seem to fundamentally misunderstand about criticism is that 1) saying "negative" things is a mandatory part of constructive feedback and 2) people who care a lot about something will have a lot to say about it, including constructive feedback. I've watched 2 hour video essays where 1.9 hours were suggested improvements and criticisms of the thing, and then they ended with "anyway this was my game of the year and maybe in my top 10 games of all time." If they didnt feel that way, they wouldnt have made a 2 hour video about it.
I'd like you guys to address the fact that rule 0 is a part of every playgroup, doesn't matter what format or game they're playing. If we're playing Modern and you're on Yawgmoth combo and I bring Maze's End turbofog, we will not have a fun time. Modern playgroups need rule 0. Standard playgroups need rule 0. It's the nature of casual/kitchen table play. In 2010 when I played 60 card decks with my friends, I would play weaker decks against my friend who wasn't as good. That's rule 0 right there.
Yeah, even back in highschool I didn't need to know what a rule zero was to know that playing against one of my friend's decks during kitchen table games wasn't fun. Some of them had some pretty busted combos in their decks and if they refused to play something a little more reasonable I just stopped playing with them. It's one thing if they just had some stronger decks I'd probably lose to but I could at least get some turns in, but I'm talking guys who insisted on playing decks that could stand their own at a Vintage tournament while I was playing a Return to Ravnica precon and they'd win the game on turn two.
Modern is a competitive format, I don’t know anyone who would play an accident awful deck that is technically modern legal even in a casual session of just jamming games
@@BCfightan You could be playing Modern casually, as in adhering to all the format rules but not attending a formal competition. This is pretty much what playing magic was for me ever since I got into it, as all my casual decks have been more or less modern legal over the years. This is especially true for people who don't put much money in the game. I used to buy a fat pack once each set, and maybe a few boosters, but I don't do tournament play nor buy expensive singles. Most meta Modern decks are worth more than my entire collection combined, and I've had plenty of fun playing a technically awful deck at my local FNM. (though with no hope of ever winning the tournament. I'm usually happy with winning a game or two over the whole night.)
I generally play commander at the lgs that is just a mile or two away. Saturday nights are 40k players who take up half the space then commander players who take up the rest.
A local game store is great, but card/pack prices ruin the desire to go and play at all. A lot of people like to open packs, but don't like to buy packs. It's not the games stores fault that they have to charge such obscene prices for packs/boxes, they're trying to make money after having to spend as much as they have to pay for them, so the ones to blame are the sellers they are supplied by, usually the games distributor. "Why buy a pack for 6.99 when the card you want is .85 and you need 3 or 4 of them?" The game stores lose because of this.
@@shorewall Maybe for you. I still don't know anyone that likes buying packs, I get that card games cost money, but there's nothing cheap about what I've seen and I don't know anyone that is a fan of any cards they buy into having an expiration date, especially when many cards printed for limited play are pack filling garbage.
Agree with a lot of the points, but in my opinion Oathbreaker is actually the better flnuktipkayer format and is also way better to onboard new players. It’s quicker, more interactive, way less durdly and substantially cheaper as well.
A ton of people go to LGS's to play commander every week. Basically every store has a commander day/night. And that's usually the day the store is packed to the gills. That's literally the only time I go to my store.
@@NateFinch yep. The Commander players got theirs so fck everyone else basically. If you want to play anything else you basically have Mtgo otherwise tough luck.
I'll reluctantly admit that Commander is a good way to play - I just wish it weren't so fucking prevalent. I wish it were A way, not the DEFAULT way to think of the game, in so many spaces now.
@@IanKernohan that's the Commander master race for ya. Step in line and tow the status quo line or go play Mtgo because you sure as shit ain't going to find a game of anything else in person these days unless you're INCREDIBLY lucky, and I do mean INCREDIBLY LUCKY.
I think the special thing about commander was that it was community designed and driven. Now with Commander being designed for in regular sets, it is destroying both commander and the standard formats.
And I think we are seeing the rise of fan made sub formats for Commander, to address this. Basically WOTC, and really Hasbro, turn everything they touch to crap, and passionate fans with creativity are keeping Magic alive.
Commander is a terrible facilitator of social interaction. The boards are so much harder to parse, so either everyone has to be 100% dialed in and has nothing left for socialising, or everyone misses something and the game feels bad because a player wins from nowhere.
Can we talk about Duel Commander and the rising in popularity of it? My local competitive scene is completely dead and only homes EDH players. I want to try and get these people into a 1v1 format and I feel like DC is the closest thing they'd try outside of a prerelease. What are y'alls thoughts on it?
Duel commander is how a competitive scene should work for commander. Free for all has lots of issues in a competitive environment. There is still the 8th card problem (your commander being outside your deck and always available).
@@distractionmakersI just wish it got a little bit more attention. I think the navigating and politicking in edh kinda ruins the game. People play worse or suboptimal and end up losing for it. Thanks for sharing!
@@toedrag-release duel commander is 1v1, 20 life commander with its own separate banlist. It is officially recognized as a competitive format on mtgo and there are online events and coverage on youtube. I think it's curated very well and is a good spin on a commander playstyle focusing on player-skill and piloting
It not also onboards new players but also slows down churn because many people I know only play commander anymore and only buy new cards because of commander
I wish. I haven't played a game of commander since COVID. My LGS stopped having commander night after the first lockdown and it never came back. It was starting to get big too. We started with 4 and it grew to a point were we needed like 4 tables. I can't believe they haven't brought it back. It's been years🥺
Commander is great because multiplayer is less isolating than 1v1. Playing 1v1 next to someone else playing 1v1 is just not that fun. You're not playing a game as a group. So why would I choose that for game night with my friends? Games are social by definition. Commander is more social. Even back in the 90s when I was playing Magic in college, we mostly played multiplayer (but not EDH... one popular "format" was "5 turn wall" where no one could affect anyone else for the first 5 turns, to give everyone a chance to get started. )
I disagree with that logic. Yes, games are social and a good way to connect with peers. If your goal is to maximize sociability, go for commander. I know that at a tournament, though, both within a 1v1 game and with peers outside of rounds, space for socializing around the 1v1 games is plentiful. Games are ways to compete, though, too, which commander... fails at. More social does not directly equal better game. Chinese checkers can have 6 players; does that make it a better game than chess or go?
"Your honor these charges are outlandish, you have no evidence that we are a commander hate channel." -Gavin's defense team "About 40% of your videos either directly diss, or there is enough shade thrown in your videos that it could cool the sahara by 30 degrees. Go to the algorithm."- UA-cam Support.
It's funny---in theory I should love Commander. I think almost every deck I've built has been centered around a legendary creature either thematically or mechanically. Or in a couple of cases, a group of legendary creatures with some storyline connection to each other. But while I never really got into the format, I do think it highlights something that's important for people like me who play primarily Kitchen Table Magic to remember: your deck doesn't literally have to have only 60 cards just because it's called "60 card"; you can cut some of the redundant copies in favor of variance if that would be more fun for you; you don't have to play 1v1 and you never did. I would also love for the idea of a general to be divorced from Commander specifically, because I just think it's neat.
Would wizards have been any less profitable had they never created commander? Unfortunately, we'll never know. I can't stand commander. What ever happened to a time when people can build a deck with whatever they want minus a few obnoxious cards. Commander just limits the card pool toooo much, imho. Does anyone know what % of cards in all of Magic are Commander legal? To add to this question, does anyone know what % of all cards in Magic are typically played in Commander? I'd be surprised if the typical card pool played in a typical group game of commander exceeds 25% of all cards in Magic. If anyone knows, I'm all ears, but this is vibe I get. I used to play group games all the time, but this was long before Commander became a thing. Why do we have to make it all about Commander now? That is nonsense to me because it becomes exclusionary rather than welcoming. That is THE issue I have with Commander.
@@christopherfernandez8153 The Commander players don't care if you're excluded in fact most of the ones I've talked to in the past seem quite happy about it. They hijacked the game so everyone that doesn't enjoy it are basically shit out of luck. Commander is here to stay and you all can thank Fuhur Menery and his goose stepping affiliates.
@user-rw5zw9wi2q 💯 Exactly. It's not even Magic anymore. It's been hijacked by hollowed out soulless aliens. I don't want to knock them, but since they already don't want me around, I don't feel so bad about their game that they think is Magic, but really isn't. Btw, who is Menery? Sorry for the ignorance.
Many cards have become staples, yet mamy decks are built exactly to do unique things. Edh is an easy way to get casual games because almost everyone is already invested with a deck or ten. Coming up with new ways to play that work well for a group is quite hard. Everyone needs a deck that plays well with other's decks. It's doable, but much harder now that people already have a serviceable format with a strong charm. I see the downside of a wildly successful way to play eating up space.
This may be a localized phenomenon, but if you are also experiencing an inordinate number of new players being taught on commander, stop them. There is more going on at a given time at any time with the largest card pool except vintage. A singleton format no less. So now they don't learn why x card type is more desirable than y because they lose with only x in hand. Also ALSO the free mulligan is so detrimental for this experience.
Commander is killing other formats. Magic is now becoming commander, they should just change the name to “Commander: The Gathering”. It’s so annoying as a modern/pioneer player for years. The Nadu ban today is a PRIME example.
Yeah, definitely. It lends itself better to just hanging out and having self expression through your deck & gameplay more than super optimal competitive play.
Sorry, but I think Commander is actually the worst way to play magic. I’ll still play it if it’s what everyone wants to play, but it’s just far less enjoyable, for basically all the reasons you’ve talked about in other episodes.
@@Dingus2 I watch them daily. Their opinions are more nuanced than “commander is the best/worst way to play,” I’m just expressing disagreement with the general sentiment in this specific video.
@@willowparker-ct3pq they are definitely biased towards not looking commander. Even to the point of resentment when they get roped into playing and saying that they don't have fun
@@Dingus2 They primarily do game design analysis, and Commander happens to be a format that uses the rules structures of Magic in ways they weren’t originally designed for, which has a lot of game design consequences that are interesting to discuss. The fact that Gavin prefers 1v1 magic isn’t a bias, it’s just a preference, and it doesn’t stop them from recognizing the positive consequences of Commander as well as the negative, as we see in this episode and many others.
@@willowparker-ct3pq a preference still produces bias. I fact it’s the most common source of bias. As for the opinion or validity of statement here or other videos I can’t say. I’ve preferred Commander so far over other formats. It I do have some issues with it myself. And I’d agree with anyone that says that its domination as a format has negatively impacted every other format. Unfortunately something of that nature is inevitable. When one thing becomes popular it chokes out other thing in the environment. Comparable to a weed. Because weeds like tares grow easily they often choke out rival plants
Commander is the worst thing that ever happened to the game. Everything about Commander is the exact opposite of everything about normal Magic. Commander is essentially a tabletop card game wearing Magic's skin. It's no wonder that most pro players avoid it like the plague.
multiplayer magic was better when it was normal 60 card decks with 20 life. Commander sucks in comparison, and regardless of how many games I play of it I never get the same feelings I do just playing normal 60 card magic, multiplayer or otherwise.
It's definitely higher barrier but often kind of a must to get to play with friends immediately. At least there's lots of excitement to pull people in compared to some 60 card introdeck and it's most often the easiest to find people to play with.
"Unjustly" 😂 all you do is talk about how commander is bad and not the way the game should be designed and that is the worst most unbalanced format while praising the "normal" formats as being the best game ever created.
Just gotta teach players how to enjoy commander even MORE by learning how to DRAFT commander in limited! To truly enjoy a SET with all it's mechanics, enjoy all cards and not automatically find 80% of them useless due to building a constructed deck where all cards are compared to previous sets. How to draft commander: Method 1 (40 card decks + 30 health) 3 packs per player, draft as usual (one pick, 3 draft rounds, switch direction to pass between each) * Allow rare/mythic/legendary creatures to be commanders, or planeswalkers too. If players still find it hard to find a commander, allow uncommons too) Just a tip * DO NOT use color restrictions! This is the most brainless stupid rule in a limited format and I cannot stress how stupid and dumb it is enough Method 2 (60 card decks + 40 health) 3 packs per player, but open more packs to add cards so all packs contain 20 cards (two picks per pick, 3 draft rounds, switch direction between each) * Allow rare/mythic/legendary creatures to be commanders, or planeswalkers too. If you play a legendary heavy set like LOTR for example, you can use legendary only if you like. * DO NOT use color restrictions! This is the most brainless stupid rule in a limited format and I cannot stress how stupid and dumb it is enough You can also use GRID DRAFT instead of usual draft and pass. If you want a faster draft, seperate players in two/two and create a draft pile (all their packs combined into a draft pile) and now you double the draft process. You can also switch so players draft half the decks with one player then half-way you switch the seatings so you draft against two different people. We use to have a brief "trading session" after each draft. The "junk pile" can contain many fun cards others might need, and you'll have a shot to get something nice too.
Here’s the link to Forrest’s Kickstarter: www.kickstarter.com/projects/forrestimel/five-color-playmat-collection-by-forrest-imel?ref=5pk3n6
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Wishing the kickstarter campaign will be a smooth sailing.
Blink twice if you're held hostage guys
@@retektereptest they're being haunted and possessed by the foul spectral form of Czar Sheldon.
It was nice of Forrest and Gavin's captors to still let them upload while being held hostage
Before commander got popular most casual groups were just playing FFA with regular 60 card decks. Many still do. I think commander makes that format more fun but I just want to correct that the magic FFA rules existed before Commander and were used by a lot of players before commander.
ironically my friends used to play 60 card FFA back in school but none of us got into commander
@TheTrueChaks I had no less than 4 separate friend groups that just hung out at each other's houses or college campuses playing FFA games. Only one of those groups transitioned to commander and this was just before the official acknowledgment, the other groups didn't want to even years after wizards started supporting it.
I never think you’re too harsh on Commander. I actually think it’s rare for anyone to actually criticize its many flaws. I’m more annoyed by how poorly all criticism is taken.
@@Glitterblossom it's what happens when your format is filled with all the players who couldn't hack it In any other format.
@@Glitterblossom aka the glue eaters of glue eaters.
@@Aaron-l3l6gmost commander players are casual players who simply don't play competitive formats
My group play around with "formats" for our games.
One of the formats we play is Guild Wars. Each commander must be a legendary creature from one of the Ravnica guilds, and ALL the cards in the deck other then basic lands must have the guild water mark.
We also play with planes. Where all the cards in the deck must be from the same plane as the commander, except for planeswalkers.
Sounds awesome! I think planes are a great way to limit the card pool.
@@distractionmakers Im a Vorthos and a game designer, so I like experimenting with formats that force the rules to conform to the lore hehe
Another cool format we did was 2headedGiant Commander. One side had yo use cards from mirrodin without the phyrexian watermark. And the other side only cards with the Phyrexian watermark hehe
I enjoyed how this video didn't end abruptly like the past few.
i think commander is a horrible place to onboard newbies into learning how to play, since keeping track of 4 people with no repeated cards is a lot to carry in your head when you're still asking if planeswalkers are creatures. yet, i think you do touch on a lot of why it's a great place to hook a player in, with a compelling leader of the deck who sort of sums up what the deck wants to do in the space of one card, and the dynamics of hanging out with 3 others for a good hour or two or three
I don’t disagree with your point about learning difficulty in EDH, but I’m hesitant to expose a new player to 60-card if they’re firm on intending to play a lot of regular EDH.
The *very last* thing EDH needs is more people entering the play-space with the idea that winning the duel is the #1 priority.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that long time 60-card players. *Particularly* ex-Modern players make up a huge percentage of those players that, while they don’t want to engage with cEDH, *do* want to constantly play very powerful, highly consistent decks on Friday at the LGS.
And why wouldn’t they think high-power Combo is the way to go? That’s what they learned works so well in 60-card.
I’d rather work harder on helping a new player learn MtG in the suboptimal way that onboarding them with EDH represents, rather than expose a blank slate to 2 separate and often diametrically opposed play-cultures.
I’ve only been back with MtG for EDH for the past 12 months, so I’ve only played w/ maybe a hundred different players 3 or more times each, which makes my sample size quite small.
Nevertheless, literally *all* of the most problematic EDH players I’ve encountered were long time 60 card players whose various issues tend to be derivative of their prioritizing *winning* , with their next-highest priority at the table a very distant 2nd/3rd/4th to that topmost imperative.
cEDH provides a wonderful play-space for players who want to continue the methodology they honed in one or more 60-card formats, but the problem arises that regular EDH play-spaces are far more numerous/frequent.
All of which, as I said, makes me reluctant to expose friends just getting into MtG to both a 60-card format *and* EDH simultaneously.
I like how you two talk about commander as the best and worst of MtG. Which sounds about right.
I'd love to see WotC or someone take the commander format and make a tcg explicitly based around it, system and all
I think the allure of the format includes its history and the accessibility to older players who are returning.
@@alexanderficken9354 I think part of it is also the ability to attach to a specific card representing your deck/you, in the way Hearthstone and SC2 co-op commanders were popular.
All the problems with Commander are inherent problems with multiplayer games, and there is no solution.
The only problem that isn’t inherent to the commander is the RC's incompetence in managing the format.
I disagree, there are solutions to the multiplayer problem but you can't marry 1v1 game systems with multiplayer game systems. I think that's the main problem.
@@SenkaZver How do you allow interaction and disallow Kingmaking and Spite Plays?
I always liked two headed giant. Super underrated format.
Regarding Bartle's Taxonomy of Player Types - I had the pleasure to meet him and have a quick chat about the topic when I studied game development. He said that his theory is, and I quote, "rubbish". He published an updated version of it that includes an additional axis (implicit/explicit), but isn't entirely happy with that one either. I still think it's a useful tool for analyzing player motivations, but I don't believe you can't neatly place individual players into any given category.
I think Commander is such a strange casual format, because a game night in my experience has never been about playing 1 game of a single game, but rather playing several games or several matches, because that way everyone experiences the game and has multiple chances to have a better experience. Commander demands time, the turn-taking is not dynamic enough to not turn players into spectators, waiting for their turn to come, which ends up being boring, and singleton deckbuilding ends up requiring greater knowledge from the player on how to build a fun and playable deck. I don't see this type of occurrence in a casual game of Standard or Modern, the games end faster, deckbuilding is more direct and it's not so simple to go infinite in the first turn, and it doesn't matter if WotC says that Standard and Modern are only 1v1, play tag-team or 1v1v1v1, the cards are yours, screw the tournaments.
Honestly, yeah. Despite all its faults, a lot of this is why I still use Commander when introducing new players to Magic. Everyone gets to play as a group; everyone gets one big cool "leader" card that they can think of as "theirs" (or, for their opponent's commanders, as someone else's); and there's much less concern about being "bad at the game" when things are much less ruthless. In a 1v1 format, when your opponent has lethal they either kill you easily, or consciously and obviously go easy on you, which feels bad either way. In a free for all, resources spent to finish someone off are resources *not* spent on taking down the biggest threat, which means unskilled or new players have much more leniency and can keep participating even if they can't keep up with the strongest player in the group.
Interesting points! I learned playing 1v1 with a friend who had decks prepared. I don't know if they were his standard decks or something lower complexity like a precon, but whichever it was, there weren't too many words. I really appreciated the environment where I could stop the game to ask questions, there would only be a few cards on board, and I could jam in 7 games before we had to go. I've since assumed Commander would be awful for new players, but you made me see there are a lot of advantages for groups after they know the basics.
@@cheeseitup1971 Exactly! My process has been very similar. I've been starting my friends off with 1v1s on Cockatrice (so no physical cards required) that have each of us use a fairly simple mono-green stompy 60-card decklist. This gives them a chance to understand the general flow of the game, and especially to get some practice with how combat works. After that, once they have an understanding of the fundamentals (and have confirmed an interest in continuing to play), that's when I pivot them over to Commander.
I take some input on the sort of deck they'd like to try out, then build them an EDH deck to their specs. Did they really enjoy the giant monsters? Was their favourite play to be all sneaky-like with instant-speed combat tricks? Do they like vampires, cats, elves? Lots of questions, really more of a conversation than a Q&A, which I then use to try and pick out commanders and/or general deck ideas that I think they'll like. Once that's locked in - once they have a "leader" card and a general strategic concept that excites them - we're really in business. I write them up an EDH decklist, run a few mirror matches so they can try it out and request any modifications, and set them loose on the world.
So as "The Socializer" in a lo of games like... I really appreciate this discussion. Though like I also squeaked in convos and stuff DURING GAMES in 1v1.
I remember setting the pace of a game by talking fast and slapping down cards without looking at my hand or draws until my opponents turn and we ended up quipping and joking around and so on because as it turned out that sort of socialization is fun sometimes.
I remember an experience I had once when I went to an FNM, and I was trying to talk and chat with my opponent, but he was almost ignoring me. I kinda felt bad for him because he seemed uncomfortable, but I wanted some more banter.
I've had the most success with playing with friends at home.
@@shorewall if you go to Commander nights it's much easier, but some tables will kinda just be like that. Honestly the better half of socializing is trying to socialize and failing lol
This channel has been fun to binge. My friends wanted me to try Commander (I play Yugioh). I immediately upended the power scale of the pod…. For the life of me, I couldn’t figure out why I created such a problem 😅
Somebody accidentally a good deck
Small dispute regarding “precons tend to mostly be comprised of cards from their set” - while this may be true for older precons, the modern era of magic appear to only have 10 - 15 or so cards from the main set in them. Although, there are “unique commander” cards from many of the latest sets. As an example with Bloomburrow, there’s the standard BLB set symbol and BLC for the commander-specific cards. I’m not entirely sure about the breakdown of numbers for what’s commander-specific or not but I support the notion of trying to create decks that have more limitations to where cards are coming from for a more flavor-rich experience.
Thanks for the clarification 😄
I would like to see you revisit Lorcana now that it is on its 5th set and had it's 1st errata/functional ban. Zan Syed or Frank Karstan from MTG fame may be a good person to talk to about all of the nuances.
Good idea. We’ll add it to the list.
@@distractionmakers Have y'all talked to Frank Karsten before? You can probably get a few episodes out of it. He won Lorcana's first European Challenge (like a Grand Prix) and I know you've talked about his myriad contributions around Land optimization before.
Before even watching more of the Video: You might confuse being accused with hating the format.
Being critical is not strictly a bad thing or a sign of disdain.
A friend of mine once said to me "do you even like anything?! You always find so many reasons to criticise things."
And it's mostly the things I criticise that I tend to enjoy.
Be more critical without being accusing, everyone. It's how we grow as people, artists and society.
They have outright stated in previous videos that they dislike the format and only play it out of obligation to their playgroups.
Commander is such an enigmatic beast. It's so apparently, incredibly successful in creating fun and meaningful ways to enjoy the game, yet it is also a an incredibly flawed format from a technical standpoint. I love it, despite its many short comings. There is a reason that it has captured so many players, despite it not seeming to be a good starting MTG experience on paper.
I always go to my LGS to play commander. I go to the commander night, no matter where I have lived, I find my LGS and schedule in for commander night.
same
@@Executioner9000 well no shit paper Magic doesn't exist anymore. It's Commander or nothing.
@@Aaron-l3l6gclueless lol I am playing modern every week at my FNM and the rcq seasons pop off
@@BCfightan good for you. Not everyone is that lucky. Commander came in and killed off any interest in 60 card constructed.
Here's my question for you: How would you tweak the rules of Commander so that it better achieves the goals it is trying to meet? Maybe this is more a video topic than a comment, but I'd love to hear what changes you might try!
(Also mad shoutout to Bartle's Taxonomy, loved learning about that in my Game Design class)
That’s a good idea. We’ll probably do a video about it. Off the top of my head I think:
1. 20 life (maybe 25)
2. Commanders are shuffled in or subject to deck randomness somehow
3. Some kind of limit to the card pool. Either a rotation or limited by your commander choice to their plane.
4. Limit to who you can directly interact with or everyone interacts with a 3rd party.
5. A proper ban list.
@@distractionmakers this kind of sounds like Canadian Highlander if y'all have seen that format
Towards the middle you mention deck constructing around planes and I just have to mention that to a certain degree we have this in the form of tribal commanders. Even with wider reaching tribes like Goblins or Elves, there's enough that you can still narrow a large swath of your deck to within a plane of your choice, while a tribe like Otters, you'll end up predominantly pulling from Bloomburrow anyways due to smaller size.
Gavin you maniac you're going off-brand!
It's also worth noting that part of what makes Commander good is that Singleton is just a particularly compelling (and, IMHO, the best) way of playing Magic. Admittedly, as you've pointed out in previous videos, the advantages of Singleton are mitigated somewhat in Commander by the way the Commander itself incentivizes degenerate combos, but that doesn't completely wipe out those advantages.
I can’t entirely agree. I’ve built plenty of decks that ran single copies of several cards, but mandatory singleton actively prevents me from wanting to play Commander.
@@jacobd1984 In singleton, you just look for duplicate effects. If in 60 card formats you want a 4 of, then in Commander you want about 7 duplicate effects to be equivalent.
0:31 that Halpert take
I’d like to hear your thoughts about singleton formats. To me singleton is the best way to play TCGs. Every card in your deck should feel special
I like 4 ofs, because it narrows down your deck's focus to your signature spells. But I also think singleton is a really meaningful restriction. And it tests your ability to find duplicate effects for what you want to do.
Have you guys ever played The Four Souls?
I personally have, yes, backed both the kickstarters for it! It's an interesting game for sure.
It's definitely been both amazing and terrible in my experience. Love isaac, four souls has some great commanderesque ffa going. Limited to one action on opponents turns is great but the items break that. "Threat of activation" grinds games to a halt at times
Depends on how you define best. It is definitely fun and social. I like draft a lot personally though. 1a-1b type thing.
I feel like smth people seem to fundamentally misunderstand about criticism is that 1) saying "negative" things is a mandatory part of constructive feedback and 2) people who care a lot about something will have a lot to say about it, including constructive feedback. I've watched 2 hour video essays where 1.9 hours were suggested improvements and criticisms of the thing, and then they ended with "anyway this was my game of the year and maybe in my top 10 games of all time." If they didnt feel that way, they wouldnt have made a 2 hour video about it.
I feel like this is because for some reason people feel like their enjoyment of something is diminished by criticism of it.
I'd like you guys to address the fact that rule 0 is a part of every playgroup, doesn't matter what format or game they're playing. If we're playing Modern and you're on Yawgmoth combo and I bring Maze's End turbofog, we will not have a fun time. Modern playgroups need rule 0. Standard playgroups need rule 0. It's the nature of casual/kitchen table play. In 2010 when I played 60 card decks with my friends, I would play weaker decks against my friend who wasn't as good. That's rule 0 right there.
Yeah, even back in highschool I didn't need to know what a rule zero was to know that playing against one of my friend's decks during kitchen table games wasn't fun.
Some of them had some pretty busted combos in their decks and if they refused to play something a little more reasonable I just stopped playing with them. It's one thing if they just had some stronger decks I'd probably lose to but I could at least get some turns in, but I'm talking guys who insisted on playing decks that could stand their own at a Vintage tournament while I was playing a Return to Ravnica precon and they'd win the game on turn two.
Modern is a competitive format, I don’t know anyone who would play an accident awful deck that is technically modern legal even in a casual session of just jamming games
@@BCfightan You could be playing Modern casually, as in adhering to all the format rules but not attending a formal competition. This is pretty much what playing magic was for me ever since I got into it, as all my casual decks have been more or less modern legal over the years.
This is especially true for people who don't put much money in the game. I used to buy a fat pack once each set, and maybe a few boosters, but I don't do tournament play nor buy expensive singles. Most meta Modern decks are worth more than my entire collection combined, and I've had plenty of fun playing a technically awful deck at my local FNM. (though with no hope of ever winning the tournament. I'm usually happy with winning a game or two over the whole night.)
My group place Commander every Friday night. And it started with three now have a group of 16😊
I just convert my friends. At home and at school I have made a community so I can play cedh.
I generally play commander at the lgs that is just a mile or two away. Saturday nights are 40k players who take up half the space then commander players who take up the rest.
Y'all have fun, I'm gonna keep building my cube instead
A local game store is great, but card/pack prices ruin the desire to go and play at all. A lot of people like to open packs, but don't like to buy packs. It's not the games stores fault that they have to charge such obscene prices for packs/boxes, they're trying to make money after having to spend as much as they have to pay for them, so the ones to blame are the sellers they are supplied by, usually the games distributor. "Why buy a pack for 6.99 when the card you want is .85 and you need 3 or 4 of them?" The game stores lose because of this.
I think limited is a key part of the ecosystem, to make cracking packs and buying boxes fun.
@@shorewall Maybe for you. I still don't know anyone that likes buying packs, I get that card games cost money, but there's nothing cheap about what I've seen and I don't know anyone that is a fan of any cards they buy into having an expiration date, especially when many cards printed for limited play are pack filling garbage.
Agree with a lot of the points, but in my opinion Oathbreaker is actually the better flnuktipkayer format and is also way better to onboard new players. It’s quicker, more interactive, way less durdly and substantially cheaper as well.
A ton of people go to LGS's to play commander every week. Basically every store has a commander day/night. And that's usually the day the store is packed to the gills. That's literally the only time I go to my store.
@@NateFinch yep. The Commander players got theirs so fck everyone else basically. If you want to play anything else you basically have Mtgo otherwise tough luck.
I'll reluctantly admit that Commander is a good way to play - I just wish it weren't so fucking prevalent. I wish it were A way, not the DEFAULT way to think of the game, in so many spaces now.
@@IanKernohan that's the Commander master race for ya. Step in line and tow the status quo line or go play Mtgo because you sure as shit ain't going to find a game of anything else in person these days unless you're INCREDIBLY lucky, and I do mean INCREDIBLY LUCKY.
Lol that thumbnail is rude as hell!! 😂 I have never felt so seen and called out as a commander player.
I think that explains part of why WOTC decided to let you have planeswalkers be your “commander” when they made Brawl as a new format in MTGA
You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain.
Commander is kind of a catch 22 where it is forsure the best way to play MTG, but is definitely also the WORST way to learn the gane.
April's fool was 4 months ago XD
I think the special thing about commander was that it was community designed and driven. Now with Commander being designed for in regular sets, it is destroying both commander and the standard formats.
And I think we are seeing the rise of fan made sub formats for Commander, to address this. Basically WOTC, and really Hasbro, turn everything they touch to crap, and passionate fans with creativity are keeping Magic alive.
Commander is a terrible facilitator of social interaction. The boards are so much harder to parse, so either everyone has to be 100% dialed in and has nothing left for socialising, or everyone misses something and the game feels bad because a player wins from nowhere.
I was going to comment this, but you beat me to it :-)
Board states are too complex now in commander.
Can we talk about Duel Commander and the rising in popularity of it? My local competitive scene is completely dead and only homes EDH players. I want to try and get these people into a 1v1 format and I feel like DC is the closest thing they'd try outside of a prerelease. What are y'alls thoughts on it?
Duel commander is how a competitive scene should work for commander. Free for all has lots of issues in a competitive environment. There is still the 8th card problem (your commander being outside your deck and always available).
@@distractionmakersI just wish it got a little bit more attention. I think the navigating and politicking in edh kinda ruins the game. People play worse or suboptimal and end up losing for it. Thanks for sharing!
@@Skiizolicious What's dual commander?
@@toedrag-release duel commander is 1v1, 20 life commander with its own separate banlist. It is officially recognized as a competitive format on mtgo and there are online events and coverage on youtube. I think it's curated very well and is a good spin on a commander playstyle focusing on player-skill and piloting
It not also onboards new players but also slows down churn because many people I know only play commander anymore and only buy new cards because of commander
Anyone else play houseruled kitchen table multiplayer before edh?
Oops. I thought this was a Distraction Makers video.
oo yeah idk about that title I'm not hearing anyone out
I prefer to play games where 1 person waking up and choosing chaos doesn't mean Armeggedon, Decree of Annihalation and Winter Orb
I wish. I haven't played a game of commander since COVID. My LGS stopped having commander night after the first lockdown and it never came back. It was starting to get big too. We started with 4 and it grew to a point were we needed like 4 tables. I can't believe they haven't brought it back. It's been years🥺
Commander is great because multiplayer is less isolating than 1v1. Playing 1v1 next to someone else playing 1v1 is just not that fun. You're not playing a game as a group. So why would I choose that for game night with my friends?
Games are social by definition. Commander is more social.
Even back in the 90s when I was playing Magic in college, we mostly played multiplayer (but not EDH... one popular "format" was "5 turn wall" where no one could affect anyone else for the first 5 turns, to give everyone a chance to get started. )
I disagree with that logic. Yes, games are social and a good way to connect with peers. If your goal is to maximize sociability, go for commander. I know that at a tournament, though, both within a 1v1 game and with peers outside of rounds, space for socializing around the 1v1 games is plentiful. Games are ways to compete, though, too, which commander... fails at.
More social does not directly equal better game. Chinese checkers can have 6 players; does that make it a better game than chess or go?
"Your honor these charges are outlandish, you have no evidence that we are a commander hate channel." -Gavin's defense team
"About 40% of your videos either directly diss, or there is enough shade thrown in your videos that it could cool the sahara by 30 degrees. Go to the algorithm."- UA-cam Support.
>say they like commander
>proceed to list three things that aren’t directly tied to commander rules
Nice try
You caught us
Commander is what killed Magic.
@@imperialcitizen4811 sad but 100% correct.
Commander : Magic
DOTA : Warcraft
It's funny---in theory I should love Commander. I think almost every deck I've built has been centered around a legendary creature either thematically or mechanically. Or in a couple of cases, a group of legendary creatures with some storyline connection to each other. But while I never really got into the format, I do think it highlights something that's important for people like me who play primarily Kitchen Table Magic to remember: your deck doesn't literally have to have only 60 cards just because it's called "60 card"; you can cut some of the redundant copies in favor of variance if that would be more fun for you; you don't have to play 1v1 and you never did. I would also love for the idea of a general to be divorced from Commander specifically, because I just think it's neat.
Would wizards have been any less profitable had they never created commander? Unfortunately, we'll never know. I can't stand commander. What ever happened to a time when people can build a deck with whatever they want minus a few obnoxious cards. Commander just limits the card pool toooo much, imho. Does anyone know what % of cards in all of Magic are Commander legal? To add to this question, does anyone know what % of all cards in Magic are typically played in Commander? I'd be surprised if the typical card pool played in a typical group game of commander exceeds 25% of all cards in Magic. If anyone knows, I'm all ears, but this is vibe I get. I used to play group games all the time, but this was long before Commander became a thing. Why do we have to make it all about Commander now? That is nonsense to me because it becomes exclusionary rather than welcoming. That is THE issue I have with Commander.
@@christopherfernandez8153 The Commander players don't care if you're excluded in fact most of the ones I've talked to in the past seem quite happy about it. They hijacked the game so everyone that doesn't enjoy it are basically shit out of luck. Commander is here to stay and you all can thank Fuhur Menery and his goose stepping affiliates.
@user-rw5zw9wi2q 💯 Exactly. It's not even Magic anymore. It's been hijacked by hollowed out soulless aliens. I don't want to knock them, but since they already don't want me around, I don't feel so bad about their game that they think is Magic, but really isn't. Btw, who is Menery? Sorry for the ignorance.
Many cards have become staples, yet mamy decks are built exactly to do unique things. Edh is an easy way to get casual games because almost everyone is already invested with a deck or ten.
Coming up with new ways to play that work well for a group is quite hard. Everyone needs a deck that plays well with other's decks. It's doable, but much harder now that people already have a serviceable format with a strong charm. I see the downside of a wildly successful way to play eating up space.
Commander players still need spaces to go. Doing admin to organize pods sucks, and having a space to go to find a pod when in doubt is ideal.
I think justly.
i honestly think standard is by far the best format right now
Definitely, the range of decks and expression you can play right now is quite great in standard. Its just not many stores support it anymore.
This may be a localized phenomenon, but if you are also experiencing an inordinate number of new players being taught on commander, stop them. There is more going on at a given time at any time with the largest card pool except vintage. A singleton format no less. So now they don't learn why x card type is more desirable than y because they lose with only x in hand. Also ALSO the free mulligan is so detrimental for this experience.
Nope.
Commander is the death of Magic.
Commander is killing other formats. Magic is now becoming commander, they should just change the name to “Commander: The Gathering”.
It’s so annoying as a modern/pioneer player for years.
The Nadu ban today is a PRIME example.
imo commander is barely a game-it's more of a fun excuse to hang out
Yeah, definitely. It lends itself better to just hanging out and having self expression through your deck & gameplay more than super optimal competitive play.
Couldn’t think of a more click bait title. I gagged when I saw it.
Sorry, but I think Commander is actually the worst way to play magic. I’ll still play it if it’s what everyone wants to play, but it’s just far less enjoyable, for basically all the reasons you’ve talked about in other episodes.
They agree with you. They are just baiting clicks. Watch any of their other videos. They can't stop themselves from complaining about commander
@@Dingus2 I watch them daily. Their opinions are more nuanced than “commander is the best/worst way to play,” I’m just expressing disagreement with the general sentiment in this specific video.
@@willowparker-ct3pq they are definitely biased towards not looking commander. Even to the point of resentment when they get roped into playing and saying that they don't have fun
@@Dingus2 They primarily do game design analysis, and Commander happens to be a format that uses the rules structures of Magic in ways they weren’t originally designed for, which has a lot of game design consequences that are interesting to discuss. The fact that Gavin prefers 1v1 magic isn’t a bias, it’s just a preference, and it doesn’t stop them from recognizing the positive consequences of Commander as well as the negative, as we see in this episode and many others.
@@willowparker-ct3pq a preference still produces bias. I fact it’s the most common source of bias. As for the opinion or validity of statement here or other videos I can’t say. I’ve preferred Commander so far over other formats. It I do have some issues with it myself. And I’d agree with anyone that says that its domination as a format has negatively impacted every other format. Unfortunately something of that nature is inevitable. When one thing becomes popular it chokes out other thing in the environment. Comparable to a weed. Because weeds like tares grow easily they often choke out rival plants
Commander is the worst thing that ever happened to the game. Everything about Commander is the exact opposite of everything about normal Magic. Commander is essentially a tabletop card game wearing Magic's skin. It's no wonder that most pro players avoid it like the plague.
multiplayer magic was better when it was normal 60 card decks with 20 life. Commander sucks in comparison, and regardless of how many games I play of it I never get the same feelings I do just playing normal 60 card magic, multiplayer or otherwise.
First!
Bullshit.
Commander is such a mess, and I'm saying this as someone who primarily plays commander when playing mtg.
All of the things you say happened to casual/social players in casual or FNM also happen in commander? This video is baffling.
I'm not sure that it is, really. It is definitely not a good way to introduce new players to Magic, at least.
Honestly I do think commanders are a great shorthand for choosing a precon. 100 card singleton is not new player friendly at all though.
It's definitely higher barrier but often kind of a must to get to play with friends immediately. At least there's lots of excitement to pull people in compared to some 60 card introdeck and it's most often the easiest to find people to play with.
Commander is the ONLY way to play Magic
@@MisterWebb yeah that's not the flex you think it is bro.
Cringe
"Unjustly" 😂 all you do is talk about how commander is bad and not the way the game should be designed and that is the worst most unbalanced format while praising the "normal" formats as being the best game ever created.
April Fools???
I agree commander sucks
Just gotta teach players how to enjoy commander even MORE by learning how to DRAFT commander in limited!
To truly enjoy a SET with all it's mechanics, enjoy all cards and not automatically find 80% of them useless due to building a constructed deck where all cards are compared to previous sets.
How to draft commander:
Method 1 (40 card decks + 30 health)
3 packs per player, draft as usual (one pick, 3 draft rounds, switch direction to pass between each)
* Allow rare/mythic/legendary creatures to be commanders, or planeswalkers too. If players still find it hard to find a commander, allow uncommons too) Just a tip
* DO NOT use color restrictions! This is the most brainless stupid rule in a limited format and I cannot stress how stupid and dumb it is enough
Method 2 (60 card decks + 40 health)
3 packs per player, but open more packs to add cards so all packs contain 20 cards (two picks per pick, 3 draft rounds, switch direction between each)
* Allow rare/mythic/legendary creatures to be commanders, or planeswalkers too. If you play a legendary heavy set like LOTR for example, you can use legendary only if you like.
* DO NOT use color restrictions! This is the most brainless stupid rule in a limited format and I cannot stress how stupid and dumb it is enough
You can also use GRID DRAFT instead of usual draft and pass. If you want a faster draft, seperate players in two/two and create a draft pile (all their packs combined into a draft pile) and now you double the draft process. You can also switch so players draft half the decks with one player then half-way you switch the seatings so you draft against two different people.
We use to have a brief "trading session" after each draft. The "junk pile" can contain many fun cards others might need, and you'll have a shot to get something nice too.
Pot of greed but what does it do?