Atlus STILL has a DLC Problem
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
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Atlus recently announced some new DLC for Soul Hackers 2 and it looks pretty overpriced. In this video I discuss the DLC for this game and also look at some of Atlus's anti-consumer moves for other recent releases.
Intro by Lyric: / @lyric3595
Background by Leehzart: / leehzart1
Day 1 story DLC has always been such a ridiculous concept to me. It's not that you're adding new content to the game after it released, you've just decided that some of the already existing content is "premium" for some reason and has to be bought separately. It just makes me think content is being stripped from the base game rather than being added to.
@@lukemorgan6166 especially when it comes to anime related shit dumb otakus will spend thousands just to see their 2d waifus in bikini.
If it's already in place Day 1, then yes, it has been removed. That is always the case and what separates it from DLC made later, unless someone datamines and finds out that was held back.
@@blumiu2426 just like street fighter x tekken "DLC" fiasco
the worse part are the ones that defend it. "the game was finished months before and the dlc was extra work they did" - as they drool all over the floor
With 5's story not explaining or mentioning the mandala system and other shit without the fiend dlc it was pretty clear they removed that part of the story from the game for a quick buck, even tho it was always meant to be there.
My favorite part of P3P and P4G were the costumes. You’d buy them at the shops in game or find them in the dungeons and it was always a fun surprise. But the best part of it was that you could talk to your party members about their/your outfits, get Naoto’s opinion on an out fit with a skirt, chie havin a grand time because she’s wearing Bruce Lee’s outfit, all the girls being embarrassed by the skimpy bikini armor, or the guys embarrassed over crossdressing. This is 100% gone in p5. The costumes are just there for me to see and that’s it. I hate the fact that I had to pay real money for the costumes only to find out 1 there’s no interactivity for them and 2 there’s no in game costumes at all. I’d be fine if it were one or two costumes as dlc and the rest in game but I guess I’m old school in my gaming ways. It just screams we don’t care what you like give us your money.
The sad part is there's unused text boxes which had the Persona 5 characters react to the costumes they're wearing with most of them referencing the schools from past Persona games. Somehow, that was cut.
Idk if paying extra money for skins is what would be defined as “old school”
Persona 5 costumes do have something in p5, they have music attached to them, though I don't think sacrificing interactions was a good move
@@amysel Paying for music that you can just look up on youtube and listen to while playing
@@Yung.Ert. The "old school" part refered to expecting there would be in the base game extra costumes, like Ultimate Spiderman (ps2). But would be okay with 1-2 extra on DLC.
Yeah, it sucks since x360 we see DLC coming to games and getting more and more abusive, like day 1 dlc is absolute ridiculous if they have all that content ready and release it as paid DLC it's really scummy.
Goodbye to unlocking costumes in games by completing secrets, puzzles, challenges, etc. Swipe your credit card folks.
just wanna say the anime being overpriced isn't an Atlus thing, its a Aniplex thing. Aniplex makes their blu rays very expensive.
I just commented something similar. Its not uncommon at all for Anime DVDs and Blurays to be way overpriced. Its been like that for as long as I've been into anime going back as far as the 90's.
I can agree with that because the demon slayer special editions cost 120ish and it’s only half a season and I recently bought the manga handled by viz for 150 so either I can watch half a season or get a big collector edition of the whole series
Weebs are such bootlickers, it's insane. Allow me to educate you on how licensing works: IT DOES NOT MATTER which company distributed the content itself, because that company does not own the IP and has no legal jurisdiction to price it. The recommended retail price is ALWAYS dictated by the IP holder as per legal right for market presentation of the product.
Keep coping, weebs.
@@frds_skce I've got a question for you, just out of curiosity; What's your favorite show?
Atlus: *Still does overpriced Day 1 DLC*
Nyarly: How many times do we have to teach you this lesson old man?
Clearly no lesson is being taught since motherfuckers are still buying it.
Atlus: I love the young people.
I just don't buy this
Atlus: Sell easy mode for casual clowns and 24 costumes for fanatics of previous games
Community: * cry over things they never need to buy to experience game as intended *
@@Louis_Cyphriel OK, you're telling me I don't need to buy the fiend DLC, shit that was ON DISC for a previous game?
Real quick fun fact: The Persona 5 Blu-Ray pricing is 100% on Aniplex being assholes, not Atlus. They've done the same thing with their Trigger licenses among MANY others, as they effectively adopt the Japanese pricing method.
Another fun fact: the UK Blu-Ray for Persona 5A is also super cheap by comparison, and you can get a region-free player for pretty cheap (or mod your PS3). The UK also got the Persona 3 movies for a pretty cheap price too
Conclusion: if you want to be a persona fan, be british
@@LSqre Apart from the fact out Persona 3 games are above £100, everything else is cool here.
Noted
Don't waste money, Just pirate the anime. Lol
@@Khino.978 You can always pirate from shitty companies.
It is always morally correct
Just here to point out that Anime DVDs/Bluerays, no matter who makes them, are ALWAYS egregiously expensive. Like, I was not surprised *at all* by the cost of the DVD release of P5's anime; the anime DVD industry in Japan is *incredibly* anti consumer and is *consistently* wildly overpriced. Like this is not a new thing and never has been. And a lot of this does stem specifically from Japan; Americans and foreigners are upset by it but this is how otaku-related companies in Japan have functioned *for years.* Does that make it okay? No. It just doesn't make it surprising and it also does mean not a lot is *likely* to change as Japanese Companies tend to be rather narrowminded in the idea of how much their produce might appeal to foreign countries. Just look at the fact that Pokemon explicitly makes itself easier and easier every generation because the people in charge believe that everyone who enjoys the game are Japanese business men trying to sneak in a little play time on the subway. .-.
And it isn't like they were all that hard to start with
If you just wait a year they always drop in price super heavy, especially if it’s a show nobody cares about. I got a lucky star box set for $17
@@gianmarcovega8477 $17 is still fairly expensive for an anime that's over ten years old. Its also disingenuous to say shows that people care less about are going to be less expensive. That tends to directly be the opposite; the more popular a show, the more supply there is and the cheaper, down the road, the DVD/Bluray will be. A good example of this, to use Atlus as a jumping off point, is that you can probably buy a copy of Persona 4 for PS2 for around 20 to 40 bucks. By comparison, their INCREDIBLY niche game, Steambot Chronicles for PS2 is $300. That's a massive difference and its only because more copies of the P4 PS2 version were made and sold (and later sort of rereleased on steam) than Steambot Chronicles, which is, honestly, in danger of probably going extinct; its never been released on another console and copies of it are very hard to find.
The point is that if its a show or anime or game with a small, dedicated fanbase, its very likely years down the road that it will be more expensive due to collectors and small supply.
No anime bluray on the planet costs 300 bucks brand new. None. This is absolutely not standard and has nothing to do with the anime DVD/Bluray industry in Japan.
@@mamayareborn as someone who dipped my toe into buying anime sets from Japan a few years ago. They totally go for that much in Japan… Or at the very least all up you pay a few hundred for a full set. A single volume dvd/bluray will be 60-100, more if it’s the one that comes with the collectors box or some other bonus. That adds up. Specially since they tend to do the old thing of only putting 2-3 episodes on a disk.
I can tolerate the costume and bgm dlc, but locking story behind dlc is where I draw the line.
I think Mara being locked behind DLC is the most egregious. Mara is one of the staple demons, he’s in basically every game and usually has a quest revolving around him. Making you pay for Mara is like making you pay for Jack Frost or Pixie, it makes no sense.
Don't say that out loud! You'll give them ideas!
Ironically yet appropriately-inappropriate enough, it's a dick move.
Pay to use demons
Even on SMT Dx2 which is the most money hungry game of the franchise Mara is easy to get as a F2P player
Atlus really reached a new low with SH2, I fear for the future of the franchise...
@@1993StrangeBoy I started fearing for it with how the new guard disrespected and completely misrepresented the mythology of multiple deities and added lolicon-bait designs in IV:A and SJ:R, tbh.
And since Odin's new design, and Demeter's, was even brought into 3D with SMTV, my fears were confirmed.
These DLC issues bring things to a whole new tier of bad news, though.
The game is launching for $100 down here in Australia. The standard price for a AAA game is $70-$80.
Plus a $60 Season Pass.
$160 for the full game. (About $115 USD).
I could buy a used PS4 for that money if I'm lucky
Good grief! My condolences.
I live in a third world country and the regional prices are still the same as in the US. They don't care about regional pricing at all.
i live in a third world country and the premium edition on steam costs 50 dollars and the base one 40
I live in Australia. I will voluntarily pay this price because I want to support what I believe is premium content. Think about why there are so few studios like Atlus. Because they arent financially viable. If you want to see the companies you love thrive, dont expect to pay the same as a AAA title that has an expected turnover of 20m units and investor backing.
I ain't buying this game at launch in fact I never wanyed to in the first place but this dlc nonsense just makes me want to stay away for a long while now
The fact that several fan favorite demons are pay-locked behind a premium deluxe pay wall on top of a premium priced game is ridiculous
It was already bad that demons already made as dlc in past games (like cleopatra) became dlc again (in SMT V), this is just blatantly targeting people who just want to play the game
@@aquano1972 guess SMT community getting into NatDex "we don't care about things like logic or quality, give us quantity of "fan favorite" monsters" war now
Like seriously what the hell is this atlus?!?!
@@Louis_Cyphriel SMT is in a constant dexcut tf are you on
@@mrkill2020 guess you do really think that it's actually good to just mindlessly stuff into game all the monsters ever created for the series instead of care for game design and balanced gameplay, oh well
you know what's worst? Persona 5 Royal was 2 years ago. Boy, it was FUCKING YESTERDAY, I SWEAR
WHERE DID THESE 2 YEARS WENT?
Pandemic
Bro...... Time flies when your wanking. You should take breaks and go outside. Get some sun. Maybe go surfing, skiing, camping, or try something new like Kendo or Jujitsu? Everyone loves a good wank but you can't just wank away 2 years bro! Everything's good in Moderation.
When we have developers like MonolithSoft putting all of their content into the game day 1, the DLC that they did have was primarily free and with the most expensive being Torna, an expansion on the story itself. These types of practices utilized by Atlus are something that just should not be tolerated anymore
Not to mention Torna fixed a lot of Xc2's ussues
Well, xeno dont sell a lot, we need to support this more to have things change.
@@ct2651 It is definetly rising now (Sales of Xenoblade) which makes me hope some other developers will take a bit from Monolith Soft's book and do some of the stuff they are doing
@@_shadow_8793 rising well, just a little while they are making some of the biggest games out there on a ps3.5 in power. They merit oh so much more than that.
Torna was basically a whole new game. Well worth 30 bucks: got 30 hours out of it. This is ridiculous
I just hate the idea of them having story content that will be available day one, but you have to pay for and costs 10 USD. I hate the idea of pay to win boost items as well, but willing to accept the costume DLC even if it is kind of ridiculous. Them selling demons is always a mixed bag for me. Like, them selling the Maniax version with Dante as DLC I could accept for Nocturne Remaster, but selling demons even if they are demons that are rarely featured is just incredibly scummy especially locking Mara behind DLC. Only paid DLC should've been the costumes and maybe only Nemissa, everything else seems bogus. But, Atlus has been like this for literally years and they show no signs of stopping. In fact, this is not at all their worst instance of selling DLC. I'd argue Nocturne Remaster is a contender in that department with the booster content. Also sucks they have a P5 costume set exclusive for digital preorders and they have a separate P5 costume set that was leaked that will be part of the costume set DLC.
Edit: In the case of the anime, it is not on Atlus it is because it is done through Aniplex. It is rare an Aniplex show for example that ran for 12-13 episodes costs less than 120 or so dollars. This is because they are basically charging the overseas audience the same prices as in Japan and also usually only offer collector's editions sets which brings the asking price even higher.
I find that people handwave the item/exp boosting kinda crap when I bring it up because it's completely unnecessary, but idk it still puts a bad taste in my mouth. If a lot of people think it's unnecessary, why sell it? It's like DMC5 selling orbs, you don't ever need to buy them and it's still a fine game, but the fact that it's even on the store page just dangling there in front of you feels gross. You know SOMEBODY must be buying it, otherwise they just would not bother with such a thing.
@@FakeHeroFang Boost items I can see the appeal of. For people who already played the game they may want to just rush through some content or to get certain items easier. Also, it can be a decent alternative instead of lowering a game's difficulty entirely. This kind of thing should be a feature in the base game for accessibility and not just to nickel and dime people especially in the case of Nocturne remastered where its a 20 year old game and many people already played it and may want to experience it differently.
@@FakeHeroFang i bought the boosting crap on Smt V because i got too lazy for grinding to defeat Shiva
@@FakeHeroFang i mean its not a multiplayer game and in no way affects your personal enjoyment of the game so who gives a fuck? you don't want it don't buy it.
@@hexzas You don't need the DLC demons or the costumes to end Soul Hackers 2 too, ya know?
I don’t really give a crap about the aesthetic dlc, but locking up story that has already been made behind dlc from the very beginning is horrible. Also, $400 for the most mid adaptation of all time? No thanks. The only good thing that P5 the animation brought was the Valentine’s Day ova, which was kinda neat.
Valentine's day cringe, you mean.
Also; aesthetic DLC may not matter to you, but it wouldn't be such a big priority for so many developers if it didn't matter a lot to the majority of people, so it still matters. Whether that includes you or not is irrelevant -- it still compels most people to buy, **otherwise they wouldn't do it**.
@@mamayareborn obvious
It’s piratin’ time!
I would say smtV was just as bad. It's a bunch of fucking side quests that could have been in there and one includes A SECRET BOSS FIGHT AGAINST THE DEMI-FIEND
DLC is like a disease. I remember my first introduction to dlc was in Assassin’s Creed 2 where they removed the 2 sequences right before the end. I started the last sequence at the Vatican and was so confused as to how the hell we got there. Disgusting practice when they remove content to nickel and dime you for it later after you purchase it. You’ve earned a new sub.
My first interaction was Fallout 3. No scummy tactics, no bullshit, more content for a few bucks nearly a half a year after release
Like, if DLC is done a while after the game's release, sure, whatever. But if it's day 1 (Especially if it's story DLC), that's another story. Day 1 story DLC is the perfect manifestation of greed.
5:50 - 7:03 That's an Aniplex thing and not Atlus. Aniplex puts ridiculous price tags for their home releases.
And they wonder why people pirate anime
This has been progressively sadder to see with a lot of Japanese games, I remember buying Tales of Arise and being offered like $20+ of costume DLC like what? Same with Monster Hunter Rise and World before it, it is blatant and just shitty.
With that said, Atlus has been the most egregious and offensive with it, offering direct gameplay benefits. While that doesn't really matter for singleplayer games, it is still nonetheless shitty to see.
People always say "oh if it's cosmetics it is fine" but I feel that it still isn't imho, because cool costumes and unlocks can be something that can MAJORLY extend replay value of games and give you something to work toward. I remember spending Hours upon HOURS in BlazBlue singleplayer modes just to get points to unlock the songs and images in the gallery, just felt satisfying to do so.
More and more I feel that parts of games I used to love the most are just being ripped out and being sold due to corporate greed.
Agree 100%.
I've played the remakes of RE2 and 3 (never played the originals, mind you) and while I did enjoy unlocking various weapons and modes, it sucked to see that costumes (in the case of RE2) were mostly DLC. While RE3 just had 1 in-game unlockable costume (STARS, the most predictable).
On a happy note, I've been playing this indie game recently called "Vambrace: Cold Soul" developed by Dvora Studio (formally known as Devespresso Games) and what's great is there are 26 different costumes to unlock in the game, mostly through side quests. No DLC whatsoever. I obviously can't speak to whether the gameplay itself would interest you, I encourage you to at least look into it.
i don't mind costumes as dlc, but you gotta atleast make costumes that aren't dlc as well, that way it's a flex instead of the only cosmetics.
..obviously just having all costumes in base game is better but it's an ok compromise.
You know you screwed up when even Bethesda does dlcs better.
I found it odd that persona royal still had additional DLC. Royal is supposed to be the ultimate edition
"I encourage you to support this game, but do not support this DLC"
And here lies our problem... We want to make a statement yet clearly can't boycott the game. Buying the story DLC is pretty much mandatory for the experience. Let's face it, after reviving a 20 year old game, we don't want to not buy it but also have a hard time not being critical DLC. Same thing is true for SMTV since most players wanted to fight demi-fiend.
Until there's an outcry on Twitter or a game will tank, we won't see the end of DLC.
Yea, but Japanes studios could care less if they lose the western market, their main market is in fact Japan most of the time.
If the DLC a was a part of the game release, we should not support the dlc. Period. No half measures. Either support the company or don’t
@@harrylane4 The general audience of any game will most likely buy the dlc, doesn't really matter what some youtuber says, even people in this very comment section would buy the dlc.
sadly, it doesnt even work like that. you have to think like a faceless businessman in an office somewhere, who doesnt care about the product he markets or who he markets it to. all he has, and all he cares about, is data. if a game is boycotted because of bad dlc or cut story or censorship or whatever, all they see is "this game didnt sell". so instead of deciding "we'll fix the product", their only solution is "stop making that product". thats one of the biggest reasons nothing changes with these types of companies. no outcry or boycott will work they way you want it to, if it works at all. which it probably wont, because enough people will go out and buy the product anyway, despite your boycott.
@@armamentarmedarm1699 Did you drink your bravery juice today?
“$300 for an anime that pretty much exists to make Persona 5 accessible to people who just cannot stand playing video games”
most persona 5 fans : 🕺 💃
Costume dlc, fair. Demons that aren’t unique and story locked out of a DLC is just EA level silly. Never had played the smt games with dlc and feel like having any dlc that involves story is just reeks of greed, seems like Altus has already dipped their feet in to just take advantage of a loyal fan base that seems to not really show a grand scale of backlash for DLC prices/DLC in general.
No, it isn't fair. You think it's fair because you've been brainwashed into accepting it through repetition. This kind of stuff was all unlockable just a few years ago -- unlockable as in, you actually obtain it by achieving something in-game. Don't let them mindfuck you. There is absolutely nothing "fair" about this. It is objectively taking content away from inside the game and selling it on the side.
i think making story dlc that you don't get for free is always in a grey area for me because we can't know why they didn't just put it in the main game
maybe it was time problems, maybe they legit just didn't come up with it until it was to late to implement and that would mean extra cost to make it so in those cases making you pay for it makes sense
@@DeiManThe1 Capcom releases Free DLCs for Monster Hunter all the time after the game release and add a lot of content like new monster, weapons, armor and story. what Atlus is doing is plain disgusting. I don't mind story DLC if it released later with enough content to warrant the additional work and price, but day 1 story DLC means they just cut part of the story and resold it to you after you paid full price.
@@alenezi989a3
monster hunter world has a lot of costume DLCs for the handler and they all cost real money same with emotes, stickers and more
those new monsters are very rearly actually new monsters and almost always monsters from previous games or new varients so nothing impressive
the only free story stuff that i remember ever coming to a MH game was rise but that was because the initial story was literally not finished
i don't know anything about game development but i am very sure it's not just as black and white as you make it out to be
just because there is day 1 story dlc (if it is actually available and not just announced) doesn't mean that it was cut on purpose as we can't see behind the scenes into the development
they may have run out of their main budget for the game but still had something that needed to be added but now they had to use extra funds that they need to make back to actually gain profit from it
like it's really not difficult to understand that not every decision you don't like was made out of malice or pure greed
@@DeiManThe1 ok I know this is a month old but seriously what you said so false that I had to reply, first of all the handler is an npc and npc that hates it doesn't matter because you don't play as the handler you play as the hunter, and the hunter which is the character you play het tons and I mean tons of customs and layered armor and weapons which is what is important, you cannot compare stickers and emotes which also get alot of them for free from the seasonal events that have zero effect on gameplay to actual demons being locked behind a paywall which is equivalent to monsters being locked behind paywall also something that never and I repeat never happened in a monster hunter game, the monsters that you say are old monsters and variants maybe you don't care but every single fan gets extremely excited for not because provide a new challenge but they almost always bring in new armors new weapons new skills new layered armors and new mechanics, plus these monster even if old are beloved by the fans and also they are brought back in the new engine basically they are built from the ground up, that requires tons of work for zero extra payments "ZERO" the Monster Hunter Devs are the most custmer friendly in the entire industry man you can't say just they sell freaking stickers that they are the same as greedy Atlus that lockes previously accessible demons behind DLC and cuts parts of the actual story behind day 1 dlc which which means it was already made and is part of the game but they decided hey we can charge extra for this part and our gullible customers will gladly pay for it, there just no comparison, one game you pay fully and never pay cent later and you get support for a full year of new content, while the other tries to steal extra money of you day 1 like just paid full price and they already are telling you hey pay us extra to get the real full game and the extra is the price of the full game you just paid for.
As long as sales happen and they can easily push units, companies (in general) will be as pro-profit and anti-consumer as they can get away with. The same thing is happening with The Pokemon Company and GameFreak, shitting out the most barebones low effort entries because people. still. buy. them. anyway.
The second they start actually seeing a decline in sales because people are getting wise to this shit, they'll actually ease off on the day 1 dlc bullshit.
But right now, the games industry has conditioned the players into expecting and tolerating day 1 dlc, and being ok with chunks of a game being cut off before launch to be sold separately at a marked up price. That's just how things are now.
Unfortunately that's true
Atlus gets away Day 1 DLC with it because they know they know that majority of the fans (us) will cave in and buy . It gets worse when said DLC makes playing the game trivial (EXP Magatama in SMTV for leveling).
Considering the difficulty in SMTV solely comes from the cheap level damage multiplier in a series where level scaling has always been bad for bosses because level doesn't matter there. It makes that game from a tedious grind to what it's supposed to be if you don't abuse it to become overleveled so the Magatama DLC is bad even when looked other way around...
Yeah you have no choice but to get the DLC if you even want to fight Shiva, he's too damn high level, and the Mitama needed for things like money and EXP are rare to find.
@Smash 123 not demons, the Mitama to level yourself up quickly, otherwise your in for a annoying grind.
Even trying to fight him low level is a hassle do to how they change some things around from previous games
@@dantemustdie00 pretty sure he's intended to be fought in new game plus
I watched this video after today, The day Xbox announced P3P, P4G and P5R. Oh boy, I pray the prices will be decent AND that the PC ports just work well with no bugs >_< But we'll all see when the time comes.
Always love your reviews Nyarly! I too love ATLUS' content and if they're doing not-so-good moves such as questionable prices, we have videos like yours bringing us awareness to this.
or you could just get game pass.
It's going to be on gamepass......
@@Khino.978 yes
Atlus: so yeah, we are locking masakado and Mara in paid dlc so we ca-
Me: **opens utorrent**
In japan we have age restriction system on games named CERO. Basically Mara is classified into over 18, and other part of Soul Hackers is for CERO 16. I don't know why they put Masakado-kou classified the same category as Mara. But there is one thing, Masakado-kou has been protecting Tokyo for several hundred years, also he is a kind of a god of retribution. When ATLUS have Masakado in their game, they go to Shinto shrine and have Shinto priest to calm Masakado-kou's spirt, a ceremony every time. I suppose the reason might have come from the fact above...
Exactly bro. Some say it's immoral, and you don't support company bla bla. Company is not a child to be supported. They play dirty, and so will I.
@@ologracz1110 I honestly don't care what others think about these things. I just weigh if I want to play something comparing its price and experiences and enthusiasm I would get. It's just a matter between you (me) and ATLUS.
@@yoimati Maybe CERO thinks Masakado is perverted?
@@ologracz1110 "Atlus is just a small indie dev, they need all the support they can get"
I am glad that my country has regional prices on steam, so the complete edition is 60 dollars for me and the base game is 40.... but man I really feel bad for all the people that have to pay those crazy amounts of money.... ATLUS is doing exactly the same thing as activision some years back with CoD, they started with map packs, then skins then lootboxes and then selling red dot reticles for 5 dollars...... man I really wish people get mad and don't buy the DLCs at those prices it will only get worse and worse :/
And apart from that the PC version has Denuvo again????? Like why man, this is so annoying why the consumer that pays the game has an inferior version than the one who pirates it 2 days after the release.... idk man Atlus is annoying a lot of times...
I have regional pricing too (in Australia), but going the wrong way. $70 base game, $102 complete edition, $115 if bought seperately (in AUD prices are $100, $145 and $160 respectively)
I live in a third-world country, and the regional prices for the Steam edition are ridiculous. We have to pay nearly the exact same price as the US, which is 57 dollars for the base game, 68 dollars for Digital Deluxe, and 85 dollars for Digital Premium. Not only that, but the prices of other Atlus games on Steam are also ridiculous. Sometimes they are even more expensive than in the US. They don't seem to care about the regional pricing at all.
dude me too lol
I live in asian country but we didnt get regional pricing so we have to pay 100 dollar for the fcking full game (steam unlock it is then, i wont support a company that make game 60 dollar but still have dlc) like look at yakuza 0 and kiwami 1&2 the game is 20 dollar each and if its on discount you can buy three of them for 30 dollar (soul hacker 2 premium edition is actually 85 dollar in my country BUT its still really bad)
Sega used to do regional pricing in turkey but stopped after a while.
What I am saying is the cost of this game is 25% of what the majority can earn in a single month
Boy, its almost like game companies are slowly being eroded away by greedy finance and psycoanalists that know ho to squeeze every dim out of its consumers and make th devs unable to make good, complete games
"Anti-consumer practices" isn't a real thing. Nobody in their right mind would make messing with consumers the point of any business enterprise. Also, there's no end to the scope of the claim that something "should have been in the game from the beginning". Says who? The end user, sadly, is not a reliable arbiter of this, because the end user wants as much stuff for as little money as possible. The end user has an even more warped understanding of what fair price-to-content ratio would be than the publisher does. Most games cost as much as they used to 30 years ago, yet their development costs have multiplied many times over, and the publishers have had to swallow most of that cost. Wondering why so many games are so samey these days? Because the margins are so thin that it forces a race to the bottom. Does the consumer see their own role in any of this? Nah. They complain on forums instead (while their purchasing decisions often directly contradict their statements).
Atlus is already taking a massive risk with something like Soul Hackers 2. It _could_ be making nothing but Persona spinoffs if they wanted to play it safe, but it's not. It's making a risky sequel to a not exactly market-shattering original game that very few people even even remember. Their sales projections must be such that the DLC is there not because of "greed", but to try to raise the average amount of money they get from the people who buy the game. And the number of people might end up being quite low, if they are unlucky. But they will most likely be the kind of hardcore fans who will nevertheless buy the DLC. That's the consumer profile they feel matches Soul Hackers 2. Probably pretty close to the consumer profile they expected would go for the Nocturne Remaster.
They've got pretty solid models by now based on past performance of their games and DLCs, and I'm not privy to their specific data. But the basics is as follows: the less a game is likely to sell, the more money you want to make per sale to justify the cost of developing and marketing it. The trick is then to identify the "pain point" of the consumer; where does the game and its DLCs become so expensive that it all becomes counterproductive - your net revenue actually ends up lower than if you would've had a mass-market price point. TL;DR:
Atlus has data that suggests that:
- Making Game X cheaper will not move the needle on copies sold through enough to justify doing it. And if it does, you can always put it on sale later. Indeed, publishers all know that there is a subset of gamers who actively WAIT for sales (like Nyarly suggests doing in this video). Trust me, it's accounted for.
- Adding in all the DLC for free will not move the needle on copies sold through enough to justify doing it. They will make more money off the people who DO buy the DLC than the people who decide against buying the game altogether because of the DLCs existence.
- Videos like this and other social media backlash won't move the needle enough not to execute on their plan.
Oh, by the way - is it pro or anti-consumer to put the game on so many platforms? Surprise - it's neither. It's just pro-business. They can't afford to risk not doing it.
Finally, I would absolutely _love_ to see how people talking about "anti-consumer practices" would behave if they were made head of sales and marketing at Atlus.
With their own house as collateral.
I'm glad you went into this. The lack of recognition by the fanbase is delusional. I keep checking back to this comment section to see if people will properly speak up, but it's largely just full of people parroting the "anti-consumer" angle or making false promises of boycotts. There is zero incentive for Atlus not to do this, so they do it. In fact, as you mentioned, the opposite is true, and they are highly incentivized to follow this exact practice. I was stunned that Soul Hackers was getting any sort of sequel, and that's what the fanbase should be interested in instead of manufacturing reasons to get mad at the people who are making the games they enjoy.
The value proposition on the consumer end is also quite simple: if you enjoy the game enough, then the DLC will likely be worth the extra cash to you, whereas if you don't, it is strictly optional; if the game doesn't seem interesting to you at all, then don't buy it in the first place. Really, the dumbest thing someone can do, purely from a cost-benefit perspective, is pre-order the game at all while having doubts about its quality. Doubly so if we are talking about limited editions.
Although most of your points are solid, there is no reason to deny existance of "anti-consumer" practices, as reputation matters in regards to business.
For example, world wide release. Whilst they could release first in Japan and rest of asian continent and later to the West, as they did until recently, Atlus chose to take additional risks (as reducing income received beforehand) in order to leverage rapour with western community. Is this "pro-business"? Yes, as long as there is leverage. "Pro-consumer"? Also yes.
As per story content DLC, it is "anti-consumer" as the fact that Soul Hackers 2 main feature, alongside gameplay, is its story, as trailers and promotional content evidentiate. And might debatebly be "anti-business" given:
1. They already have other ways of maximizing gains per customer, which you already brought how, without major sacrifices;
2. Reputation, although not a resource, supports business through customer relations, after all, no one wishes to be badly treated (unless the product/service is about bad treatment). Customer retention is as important as reaching new ones, even so when given product's sales are based on a niche, smaller community.
Is it [Day One Story DLC] "pro-business"? Short term wise, yes. Long term? No. "Anti-consumer"? Yes.
Edit: I appreciate your information into the business side of affairs. It enriches the conversation and helps better understanding of what is and isn't feasible. Customers are good at feeling the product or service, however our takes are usually blindsided by lack of undestanding.
@@DusKnight7th My point is more that the term "anti-consumer" doesn't necessarily add a lot of data to the analysis. You could, if you were so inclined, cast any pro-business activity as anti-consumer, or anything that isn't explicitly "giving away free stuff that COULD have made you money, just to be nice to people" as "anti-consumer". Of course, doing so just outs the entitlement behind the term; anything short of leaving money on the table could be cast as "anti-consumer". Your examples basically amount to (and I don't mean to make a caricature out of them, or to be hostile) "not pro-consumer" = "anti-consumer".
So it goes with "greed" vs. "risk mitigation", and it's an analysis often done after the fact. The problem is that the companies have to decide on their strategies in advance - usually before even greenlighting the project. What looks like a greedy cash-grab when done for a successful game might be just enough to avoid having to fire people if a game ends up performing worse than expected.
You're correct in stating that reputation matters (and I didn't say otherwise), and that's one of the things that have to be (and are) factored into the risk analysis. That being said, it ultimately - necessarily - needs to be quantified and mapped to the cold-hard-cash P&L analysis of the project (as well as that of the rest of your portfolio over time). Your own analysis suggests that you understand this.
But let's also understand that whatever analysis you or I can engage in, for all of our respective theoretical knowledge, is infinitely worse-informed than Atlus'. Because they have infinitely more data than we do, gathered and mapped over a much longer period of time than anything we could google. Their institutional memory probably still remembers how Digital Devil Saga, just to name an example, had to be carried by the rest of their portfolio at the time, and those kinds of situations can make the company's strategy pivot for 10, 20 or more years to come. In this industry, we can easily be 1 or 2 bombs away from having to sell massive chunks of the company to, say, Tencent or Microsoft. For better or worse.
Anyway, I've gone on too long. I guess that for me to accept "anti-consumer" as a useful term, I'd have to see the difference between that and "pro-business" articulated in a way that always applies - not just incidentally or as part of a retroactive analysis of a given case. Additionally, I'd like to see some proof that being "anti-consumer" is what motivated the activity or initiative in question. Having worked at a good 10 or so publishers and/or devs in my life, I have never - not once - bumped into any mindset remotely like this at any level of the organization. I have, however, seen a bunch of dev teams begging the higher-ups to let them take a massive risk with everyone's jobs on the line, because they wanted to make games that they themselves wanted to play. And they get the green light - from the "evil suits" - more often than you might think.
Personally, I _love_ the opportunity to throw more money at a game that the devs knew was a big risk and didn't have mass market appeal. Same reason that I love having the possibility of buying enthusiast electronics and cars that do more than take me from point A to point B. But to each their own I guess.
@@旭球 Hear here.
I'm considering muting the thread actually, I've sort of made a promise with myself not to argue with obstinate people on the internet. And boy do they seem to be in the majority.
ua-cam.com/video/WHdtdZlapbM/v-deo.html
@@ReaverSTHLM Your comments have been enlightening and well writen, which I particularly appreciate. I concede that "anti-consumer" might be a "well-meaning yet deceptive" term. Perhaps "non consumer-friendly" would be an improvement?
As a side note, I also value the opportunity to support financially developers who make products I enjoy, from games to eletronics, specially when their [producers, developers, etecetera] attitude and actions move towards good principles, such as accesibility*¹, better pricing*¹ and being repairability friendly*¹, just to name a few. As a matter of fact, I bought Soul Hackers 2's Physical Collector's Edition when I found out they were hesitant to do so in the West.
*¹: when possible
I send you my regards, friend. May you be fortunate on your endeavors!
Yeah, while "boycott Atlus" isn't good, 100% "Boycott Atlus dlc", we have to collectively show them we're not putting up with this nonsense
A boycott is unlikely to do anything, you think a limited boycot will do anything?
And here I thought Gamefreak was disgusting with the SW/SH DLC. Didn't know Atlus had such disgusting practices as well. I genuinely hate the idea of story DLC being locked behind a paywall. And I had my jaws dropping when I saw the P5 anime going for $300. Sadly, it makes me proud to pirate anime
Anime blu rays will always be expensive, has nothing to do with Atlus, that's just how it is. But yeah they're animals when it comes to dlc.
I understand the frustration but with The Isle of Armour and Crown Tundra it was £25 for two large areas with a ton of cool stuff which came out 7 months/ a year after the game. I feel like the cost is fair for that as it was made after the game was finished and included plenty of fan favourite stuff like dungeons. Anime prices though are something I'll never understand though, or even selling half seasons for £30 then releasing the full later.
What are you even on about, SW/SH dlc is not even close to comparable to this nor is it “disgusting”.
SW/SH dlc wasn't bad, it was just annoying how they lied about the reason for not including most of the Pokémon and then added some of the missing ones as dlc. other than that it was ok
Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee DLC was worse for that. Let's Go physical pokeball plus controller with a DLC code for Mew $50.
Mythical Mew was $50 and you couldnt add Mew any other way into these games, it only could be via $50 pokeball plus thing. Pokemon sold a mythic under the giest of a useless pokeball toy.
They have a lot of problems
7:30 you're part of the problem. Many players tell these companies loud and clear this is what they want. Like you did by buying the overpriced collectors edition over the normal release.
Something to think about - SMTIV released in 2013, which was the same year that SEGA acquired Atlus... perhaps the DLC practices are something enforced by SEGA
Hey guys this dlc practice is a problem!... but don't like. Actually DO anything about it. Pre-order anyways and complain. That will help
Sega as a whole is like this. Lost Judgment, Sonic Origins, Sonic Colors Ultimate and Yakuza 7 all suffered from this DLC issue (Sega wanted to sell the NG+ mode as a DLC for Yakuza 7).
I can’t remember, was Atlus this egregious with DLC before being acquired by Sega? (I think having cut story content as Day 1 DLC is some bullsh*t!!!)
Kinda, like on SMTIV they locked the archangels (and their battles) behind DLCs, same thing with Masakado which is an important demon for the history, plus to defeat Masakado you need pierce which are paid DLC skills, so you need to buy other DLCs before buying Masakado's DLC, it was the first game to get P2W DLCs too.
Also, all the paid DLC on Persona 5 (and I think Royal as well) are contents which are already in the data of the game, you just pay to unlock them.
Scummy DLC practices is not a new thing for Atlus, sadly, but I think SH2 is their worst game in this regard so far.
Yes they were. Look as their 3DS offerings. Chalk full of excessive DLC, with many scenario bits paywalled. SMT IV had some additional alternate story stuff gated, but nearly all of their 3DS games have gone crazy with the DLC.
ATLUS: *releases Day 1 DLC*
Also ATLUS: "Why are we having more pirated games compared to other titles?"
Mary's Maid outfit and Ai-Ho Demon are locked behind the digital premium edition, I don't think they're included in the Collectors Edition. Also, according to the soul hackers site, it looks like the revealed Persona 5 costumes are only for digital preorders while physical preorders get the Character Cards.
Also about Atlus prices, I saw that at least at launch SMT V was substantially more expensive than the other Switch games in Japan, even Nintendo published games, I don't really understand why. Probably that was one of the reasons the game sold well in Japan but not aaas well as one could have thought considering the Switch succes there (more or less the same as SMT IV physically).
As soon as you mentioned the P5A english release I was like "This is an Aniplex release, isn't it?" And YUP. So not an Atlus tax on that, that's just how Aniplex of America charges their releases. The Fate ones have similar pricing. Basically they charge the same amount as the Japanese home release. But yes, still ridiclous.
I buy blurays and i hate aniplex and i cant get the same shows from the uk cuz there encoding is worse then the us version 90% of the time so im just stuck. Only exception i can think of was s01 of durarara cuz the uk version was the same as the aniplex version
I remember Atlus having some lame premium prices way back around the PS1 era, but I have always wondered if their harder push for DLC is more of a SEGA thing. All because that is a hard SEGA staple more than anything, and since ATLUS always was one with a niche fanbase, they can easily take advantage of us due to not having an equal competitor. On a cynical note, I can only image all this extra cash so far having been wasted on every other Sonic innovation attempt.
They started this before they were scooped up by SEGA, not to mention how SEGA was until just recently one of the most consumer friendly companies, never having any DLC that was integral, but sadly the with Yakuza 7 and Lost Judgment they went full locking integral content that was available day 1 behind a paywall, like a combat job in 7 and in Lost Judgment an entire fighting style and several side quests.
@@kannyboy1847 I never meant to imply ATLUS was free of guilt off this, but the statement of SEGA being one of the most consumer friendly companies is rather misinformed.
They have many more IPs than what is out in the mainstream (without even counting their arcade business) be it as dev or or publisher, and a lot of them are jam packed with DLC from the get go. Cosmetic DLC may not be relevant but it can be highly predatory, specially on youth. Things are getting out of hand when story content is locked behind DLC, not because of what it is but when its happening.
Releasing with a story DLC generally means it could have been in the game given more time. It would be an entirely different deal if it was released way down the line to add to the story; depending on length and quality that would have been praised instead. Back in the PS2 and previous eras both companies may have had high price ranges on specific games, but you had the cost up front and let you make a more informed decision. Nowadays they will sell you a game with an arbitrary amount of DLC, and possibly have a Royal/Golden release in the prep room, to do it all over again.
I sometimes think that all of Sega's profits from anything that actually sells like Football Manager, Total War or PSO2 goes into the Sonic money hole.
Here’s a funny thing, Sega is still involved in the Arcade business (I know this because one of their machines, with their name stamped on the cabinet, is at my workplace): If any of you have played arcade games long enough, or even observed other people playing them, you’ll notice that a game with prizes that you “should’ve” won ended up in failure. This isn’t you hallucinating, arcade games with prizes are *rigged* in some way or another to screw you over in “subtle” (or so they think) ways.
Both prize games at my workplace do this, to point that more people win at my workplace’s CASINO than at those games.
The one owned by Sega is far more clever than the other one: if you’ve ever played one of those games where there’s a first phase of positioning a controlled element, followed by a second phase where you press a button that raises up that controlled element to the prize of your choice; phase three is we’re you release the button and see if it goes through the hole and towards your intended target, you’ll know what they’re like. At first I didn’t realize it cheated until a customer I chatted with pointed it out: once you think you’ve got your controlled element in position, and try to claim your prize, the machine will subtly lift up the controlled element by a hair’s breadth and, given that the holes leave little to no room for error, cause the controlled element to hit the top instead, so that it looks as though you miscalculated, even though you probably didn’t.
Glad to see someone with a large following in the community talk about this. Alternate costumes in particular are actually one of my favorite things in rpgs and I miss the days when they were simply included in the game as unlockables. Didn't buy the extra costumes in both versions of P5 even though I really wanted them, and sadly likely won't feel justified buying the ones in Soul Hackers 2 either.
Just a reminder to folks that SEGA has owned Atlus for a few years now. I wholeheartedly believe a majority of the DLC problem we're seeing with Atlus games nowadays likely comes from meddling on SEGA's part.
I was going to disagree, citing the first time I was annoyed by stuff like Personas being locked behind DLC in Persona Q, but that came out in 2014 and I saw Sega apparently acquired Atlus in 2013.
Ever since SMTIV Atlus is putting abusive DLCs on their games, and they were not owned by SEGA back then.
@@1993StrangeBoy Like...?
@@RogueOmega they cutted content from the main game to sell as DLC later (the archangels and Masakado, they appear on the history and are important to it but you can only fight them and have them on your party if you buy the DLCs), plus to beat Masakado you need to have pierce, which comes from paid DLC demons, so you can't simply buy his DLC, you need to buy other DLCs first to kill him.
Also, the trend of P2W DLCs came from SMTIV as well.
And this is what I remembered from the top of my head, there's probably other problematic stuff too other than this.
Im okay with stuff like costume packs being DLC, since it’s essentially just crossover stuff, and pretty inconsequential. Im NOT okay with story shit being locked behind DLC.
Man, im from Brazil and to buy the game+dlc It costs about 500 reais.This shit is half of the minimum wage here. Its hard to even buy the Full game at launch due to the price.Unfortonely i have to wait at least a year when the game goes to sale. If its hard for yall in the USA imagine us at third world countries.
The fans have a buying problem
Just stop buying the DLC and spit on those who do.
500%
But how will some get their day 1 waifu looking amazing think of the lonely fanboys😥😥😥😥😥
You know why Altus keeps doing this overpriced DLC crap? People buy it. That's why. They have no reason to stop if people buy it nonetheless.
What’s sad is that this Atlus DLC problem has also spread to SEGA in general. Do I even need to bring up the day one dlc for Sonic Origins and Colors Ultimate. I fear what kind of day one dlc they’ll do for Sonic Frontiers.
sorry dude, had to stop watching when you said you had pre ordered the premium edition or whatever. i agree with everything you said, but if you felt this strongly about it, you wouldn`t be supporting it financially. good video though
Going from P4AU not having Day One DLC to this having Day One DLC is like getting sober and a few days later doing Jagerbombs.
If the dlc is over 40% of the games price it should increase the content by 50%. So gee dlc's follow this trend
For 300$ I expect every single god damn social link+interaction to be animated.
we gonna talk about xbox/pc getting p3p,p4g AND p5r when ps only has p5?
I feel like thats the problem with Atlus, they are always skirting the line of what should be acceptable in order to not get boycotted while at the same time having everyone angry at them, but we will still buy the game, and a good chunk of people in that grouo will buy the dlc, so it was worth it in the end to make day 1 dlc that makes them think "how much can we push this practice for the next one?"
Yea, it all started with Horse Armor and look where we are now.
I guess I'll take the same approach as I did with SMT5 and get the deluxe edition when it goes on sale. I snagged SMT5 Digital Deluxe for a better price than the base game because the former was on sale while the latter wasn't.
EDIT: It's a good thing I plan to do that, because it'd probably take a lot of restraint to not buy the demon DLC just so I can get Mara.
I bought p5s months arfter launch when I found it for 50% off
but the bundle with DLC had a greater discount makeing it cheaper for me to buy the digital deluxe edition then the base game
Yes it is a unfortunate thing with more recent games nowadays. As someone who plays both retro and modern games one of the things I like a lot about older retro games is that stuff like costumes were unlockable you got by completing challenges in games. Nowadays I find in some modern games those outfits that used to be unlockable for free in older games they now put behind a DLC paywall that you are forced to pay money in order to obtain.
My man, I'm gonna be honest, it's hard to take your point seriously when you talk about how overpriced the stuff is, and then say you have it on preorder anyway. You keep feeding the cat and wonder why it keeps coming back.
He could have bought the NORMAL release and his point would still somewhat stand, but bro really bought the premium overpriced shit.
I’m definitely buying this DLC when it goes on sale. I’m not spending $90 just to get the full game. I still remember my dumb ass buying the P5R Ultimate edition at launch and it’s something I regret doing.
question, do you have any idea what the difference is between the soul hackers and main series games?
Buy the base and pirate the DLC.
@@omegaryder7855 everything is different, the only thing that 'relates' them are the creatures the characters fight, that's basically the signature in SMT games, spinoffs or not
I’m convinced at this point they’re just sticking the first number on there that comes to mind. I can’t imagine their justifications.
I REALLY want to support this game. I loved Soul Hackers, I love MEGATEN, the visuals speak to me perfectly, and my favorite artist’s work and designs are front and center.
But UGH this kind of stuff is such a deterrent. Not even the pricing, it’s the practice of giving us less and asking for more.
thanks man Im done with Atlus and all Atlus products for good. One more God-tier game rejected, take that Atlus!!!
Wait wasn't Atlus bought by Sega not that long ago? If so, why are they hell bent on their games having day one DLCs ? Also I do think that the fact that their games are available to a wider audience is Sega's doing (mostly about the translation in multiple languages).
Thing is, Atlus doesn’t lose anything by adding these types of DLCs, if you buy the game full price (or the CE) but then don’t buy the DLCs, they don’t lose any amount of money from this decision, enabling them to do as they please.
I'm glad that we can still criticize our favorite things. It is important for improvement and growth. 👍
~ Adam
MARA is paid DLC?! REALLY?!
Thank you for saying this all. Their fanbase desperately needs to realize this is a massive problem. It being optional does not excuse it.
Also, Soul Hackers is NOT an underrated game. Everyone who’s ever played it has nothing but good to say of it. It IS often overlooked as it is largely locked to the 3DS for those who don’t wanna emulate. Really out of touch with the opinion there.
Especially in Japan, when Devil Summoner is 14th, and Devil Summoner Soul Hackers is 27th best selling game on Sega Saturn.
Easy solutions then. Get it for dirt cheap from a key selling website or pirate!
It's what I did with Nocturne because wanting £50 for a half assed remaster is daylight robbery.
pain.
Eh, I have no issues with devs locking costumes behind a paywall. It's a kind of win-win situation. Devs/publisher get more money and fans who want to waste their money get fan-service cosmetics.
It's situations where important features end up as paid DLC that piss me off. Like quests that are important to understand plot like for example Clipped Wings. Or demons in SH2 DLC.
I have another issue with Atlus and many, MANY other Japanese devs publishing games in western countries: their absolute lack of understanding of how to price games. Nocturne- a port of a game published in the mid-2000s- on Steam in my region costs 229 PLN (without any discounts). Before inflation hit us hard I could FEED myself for a month (as long as I didn't dine out) for that money. Heck, it's a third of my monthly rent. In comparison until recently (yet again thanks to inflation and recession) Witcher 3 was sold for 90 PLN. And Witcher 3 unlike Atlus games often goes on sales- I got it for around a third of the normal price.
It's not the cost of translating- Japanese games are almost never translated into polish. It's not fair price for some mega-polished product- Atlus ports to PC are notoriously buggy in my experience. It's just blind greed of Japanese publishers.
SMT Fans when SMT V dlcs were announced: yoooo we can get the fiends and (besides of the same two demons who were dlc in apocalypse) fight demi fiend just by paying 40 bucksss so coooool
SMT fans when Soul Hackers 2 dlcs get announced: :O
6:31 at this point I had to pause the video, and went to the bathroom to wash my hands because I felt DIRTY, violated, mocked. How THE F- COULD YOU PRICE A COUPLE OF BLURAYS LIKE THAT??? OF AN ANIME UNIVERSALLY PANNED!!!
I love Atlus. I really do...but yeah, they're getting a little out of control. It seems they're getting to the "People will pay whatever we want" level.
Bonus day 1 story DLC always piss me off. Ones added later down the line are okay. Music DLC, I don't really care about. I don't buy a game to listen to music from another older game so I can do without. Story DLC that explains the story better (like FF15 or Drakenguard 3) is just jerk move.
It’s mainly Sega fault. Look at all the games they released in 4 years. All Day 1 DLC
Eh, idk I fell like Atlus works independently form sega for the most part so saying that is like defending atlus which ain't right
In my opinion, Atlus’ DLC issue being caused by SEGA is like Bungie’s Destiny which turned out the way it did because of Activision. Good developer being tainted by outside influence.
@@jayphangx8742 i think its japan and segas fault because these series are very popular there
@@9773an Fair point, however I still don’t think that means we should let Altus off the hook completely
@@jayphangx8742 never said that sega hq lessons to japan the most which is why this stuff is happening
This reminds me Persona Dancing Endless Night Collection bullshit, Persona 4 Dancing All Night was only for people who bought that edition. Cut out story and Mara in DLC ... WTF Atlus ???
Was planning on getting this day 1, but I'm starting to lean towards waiting for a heavy discount
You block Mara over payed DLC? I'll simply pirate the game. Sorry, but i don't think it's worth $100+
Small thing, but the Mitama DLC can be disabled. It just adds an option to the settings menu to increase their spawnrate that is disabled by default.
I’m so sick of seeing boosters in rpg’s, even if you level up/earn money at a good rate in-game you just know the earn rate has been messed with to encourage buying the bs! And buying character outfits has completely replaced earning them in-game to the point where most games with outfit dlc have ZERO unlockable by playing! Yeah, was hyped for soul hackers now I’m perturbed
I am happy that you did this in Nyarly fashion, I'm happy that someone has made this known that day 1 dlc is stupid and lazy
You should never buy Atlus games day one. They go on sale a year later like clock work. I'm surprised you're not talking about the other type of dlc they do, like with P5. Instead of the dlc they released the base game for a planned period of time and then re release a version of the game that contains what would have been DLC AGAIN for full price in royal. On top of that? There's STILL additional DLC. It's far worse.
At the end of the day though we vote with our wallets and they'd stop if we stopped being willing to pay for it.
8:29 This only applies to the western version of P5R. If you bought the Japanese version (which I did), you have to shell out an absurd amount of money to get what people in the west got for free. This is despite the fact that the game costs MORE in Japan than it does in the west (even now), so you're paying a premium for a game with less content included.
the whole DLC thing just went downhill when they somehow turned from getting some extra stuff for a game you like to implicitly required to get the "proper" experience.
What’s *more* at fault?
- A scummy individual, enacting the behavior
- A scummy system, enabling the behavior
Shouldn't individual and system be reversed?
@@DusKnight7th
No.
The individual makes a conscious effort to perform the act.
The system allows the act to happen and also allows the individual to get away with it.
The former *is* the abuser, and the latter *facilitates* abuse.
@@Deoxys_Used_Mimic Point taken, although it is rather confusing when explaining as such.
Consoomers, definitely.
The company has no reason to do any more than the bare minimum. Look at gamefreak/TPC, they produce garbage and it works perfectly. Why should they try harder? Their braindead consoomers are the ones fueling this practice. And it will stop if they vote with their wallet
The Dante DLC for Nocturne HD was hilarious to me because North America never got Raidou but did get Dante, so you're paying for _less_ new content.
People bought the useless DLC crap, not just because of the DLC crap, but because they wanted to support the developers because they enjoyed the games.
Now ATLUS is taking advantage of that in full force and it's disgusting and disrespectful to consumers. 90% of what they make isn't even games anymore. 99% of their 25th Anniversary announcements were new shirts, stickers, cups, and e-boy maid cafes. When it came to announcing another game during the Anniversary, it was just a bunch of ports of the arcade fighting game that wasn't even really developed by them in the first place. When it came to releasing a Persona game on Switch, it was a warriors style game not really even developed by them. When it came to releasing a SMT port to PC or Switch, they milked every dollar they could and made it run like crap on Switch. When it came to releasing a new SMT game, it took them half a decade after announcing it to release it because they wanted to focus on releasing High School Musical and Persona 5 part 2, the animation, the animation part 2, the animation the manga, and then finally the animation the manga the animation. The only good thing that's come out of ATLUS in recent years was Persona 4 Golden to PC, and even then, the fact it took them so long was just straight up stupid. And then you have Soul Hackers which they said sold surprisingly well on 3DS, going on to not even release it for Switch.
It's like ATLUS is ran by an old guy with dementia who forgets they're running a video game company and prices crap and DLC as if they're price gouging IRL life-or-death necessities. Most of what they do seems like they're pulling ideas out of 4 hates like "Okay... A Persona 3 port... The og, so not even FES or Portable... Ported to iPhone... in 7 years"
I bet they even wonder why they had to have SEGA buy them. They're absolutely delusional, financially predatory, and out-of-touch.
One of the worst offenders by ATLUS was with Persona 5 Royal and how they flipped the bird to those who bought the vanilla P5 game by NOT adding the new content as either a free Upgrade Pack or even as a paid Upgrade Pack.
They cited that P5R was more than just an updated re-release... on the SAME CONSOLE the original version came out mind you (on PS4 to be specific). Basically, they pretty much asked the early adaptors to fork over another 60-ish dollars, depending on one's region of course, instead of giving it away for free or in a discounted DLC bundle. 120-ish dollars over the course of a few years between both versions' releases JUST to get the ''complete'' P5 experience... yeah that's bullshit! So much bullshit I went against double dipping and just look at the new content on UA-cam instead... and even then, the new content isn't that worth double dipping tbh.
P5 wasn't that amazing as people circle jerk over when it came out and the Royal upgrade isn't making things any better. The last great Persona game IMO is the P2 duology, with P3 edging a little below. Starting with P4, the series went into a complete tonal shift from not only the original games, but from SMT in general. That's not a good sign when your series started great and went down the shitter the second they change the overall tone of the series just to goose up on sales.
@@martinde-serres8724 They should ever reconsider with the practices here and there.
@@martinde-serres8724 Yea, "new content" as in what actually made it into Royal and wasn't cut out for no bloody reason.
Atlus lost my money the second that I saw mara was dlc in SH2. I never thought I would see the day that I didn't buy a smt game day one.
No one holds Atlus (Or Sega that much) accountable, therefore they keep doing this. Games that are glorified remasters have ridiculous DLC that should frankly be features included in the game as it is. Then there's games like this which are new and have absurd levels of monetization and DLC and not enough people call them on it.
It's greedy, it stupid, and whales need to stop falling for it.
Better yet, call them out for the ridiculous practice and critique them to pack it in at least.
Skins and BGMs? Worthless. More story and demons? Unacceptable to be day one DLC.
I'm kind of the opposite opinion when it comes to day 1 story DLC, as I believe they can be done well (but the ones from Atlus very much aren't).
Since the SMT4 DLC fiasco, I kept hoping they would of at least learned something from it, but every once in a while I keep getting proven wrong.
I've stopped buying DLC starting from SMT4 apocalypse, not just as boycott, but because they're so utterly worthless (not to mention embarassing compared to almost every other franchises).
you believe they can be done well, even though you couldnt point a single example?
Overpriced DLC?
*Glances at NISA's Disgaea games on the old shelf* Enjoying video games is suffering anymore.
Imagine the reason why ATLUS keeps pushing garbage day-1 DLC it's because not enough people take their time filling their surveys and rush to the "do you wish to see ports" section... 😔
Lost me after saying you pre-ordered (another practice that needs to go) it for over $200, supporting them after talking about how anti-consumer they are. Why vote with one's wallet and deny oneself huh?
It hurts when a company I used to love goes to the "wait and see" pile when it comes to its games, but I ain't throwing extra money for the whole experience. I'll wait for a sale
God I'm so tired of Atlus doing this, and not just atlus but nintendo does this too
you want all the pokemon, added story and so on? Pay us 60 bucks which is literally
the cost of the game. The game industry is so trashy with this greedy money hoarding
BuII$hit
This DLC announcement was enough to make me consider not buying SH2, I was already shaky with it, but this was enough to really make me decide to not get it.
Stop buying their shit. Simple. ATLUS isn’t even putting enough effort in dev quality anymore, smtV was terrible.
This really sucks to learn about, since the game looks so great. I've never seen story DLC being day 1 before, that's just insane.
The only example I can think of is mass effect 3 and the leviathan dlc being removed from the game and sold separately -which was really bad as it contained the most important party member and TONS of story that was essential to the overall plot! Super scummy