INTJ; this is why I prefer communicating in a textual form. I can delete a word I don't like and then send it, but when I'm speaking, I don't have that luxury. Additionally, I was always very knowledgeable and successful in grammar and composition (I also write fictional novels as a side job,) and I was always pretty good at speech classes, because I was prepared for either subject. If it's spontaneous conversation, then I'm far more awkward and appear to be even intellectually ignorant on something when I'm actually just trying to convey my thoughts properly.
INTJ: YES. I’ve been struggling to find a video that elaborates on the disconnect between INTJ’s neatly organized ideas and the inability to be “swave” when verbalizing those concepts to others. Although I have many hypothetical discussions, or debates, with others in my mind, it's still baffling when the execution is clumsy in comparison to the well-formulated thoughts. This is even worse when engaging spontaneous conversation. Anyway, thank you for posting.
Exactly!!! Very well said. Also because when I'm talking i can get veeeery self conscious and think about my next words too much and get lost easily. Not all the time, sometimes I can be very good at speaking, very rarely but I do surprise myself from time to time. Usually when I have a certain goal so I can let my Ni rest and go full Te Se mode. But very bad at answering spontaneous questions and conversations
I think part of what happens with me is that my thoughts race faster than my ability to put them all into words. I know what I want to say, but I want to say it all at once, and in slowing down enough to get out one word at a time, I start to lose the thread. And in the meantime, my mind has already started racing ahead with more thoughts, and I struggle to separate it all. I also end up with a lot of blended non-words because in my haste to find the perfect word, sometimes two possibilities spring to mind and I start saying it before I've decisively chosen, resulting in a hybrid of both, which makes me look really stupid. Or I will have chosen one word, but blurted out the other one instead, and that catches me off guard and derails me completely.
Joseph, I am an ESTJ but I used to have this challenge too. My vocalizing ability was far behind my thought process. But over the years I improved my articulation and now I don’t get too frustrated with myself when trying to assign the right words to my ideas. Also, I have learned to be ok with not finding the most appropriate words to express myself as long the other person seems to understand my general idea well enough (is that pretty ESTJ?) For you as an INTJ, even after practicing articulation for a long time, is it still very difficult? I am getting to know an INTJ friend and would appreciate your insights. FYI, I do have a lot of respect for you guys.
Haha totally relatable! I notice that when I speak, I tend to make long pauses as I reflect on what I am trying to say, and then sometimes others think that it's because I'm confused about the subject - but it's not true!
Not INTJ but INFJ and I have difficulty speaking. I'll either pause way too long, trying to think of the word or I'll do the opposite and use several synonyms or closely related words to sketch out what I mean. Talking is like drawing. The lines either have to be clear and precise, conveying a very specific idea, or numerous and rough, conveying only the essence of my message and deliberately allowing for interpretation.
This is so very familiar to me. Whenever an interesting topic comes up in a conversation, I kind of withdraw into my head to think about it, but when I'm done and have a contribution, people are already talking about something else. It's so frustrating! I do wish I could just keep up with the flow of the conversation, but it's very difficult in a group. One-on-one conversations are generally much more to my taste. My thoughts aren't so much abstract shapes as they are flashes. I usually know what they mean, but I find it very difficult to explain them to others. Starting a blog has saved me, since it's been the best way of self-expression I've found so far.
INTJ: I have such a hard time communicating and much prefer text because it allows me time to think and then erase words I don't want to use, whilst in speech I am always pausing and having a hard time remembering words, their definitions, and articulating what point I am trying to make. I can be witty yet the second it pops into my head and I speak it out loud, it doesn't have the same pay off. This is why I don't really like to talk and instead prefer it when others talk and I get to listen; yet my deepest desire is to be able to do the thing I cannot do. When I'm talking to myself I'll often stop mid sentence because, even though I know the word I want to use, I forget it and then have to spend time trying to remember what that word was. One thing I've noticed is when I'm trying to explain something, let's say a TV show I've been watching, in my head all of the facts are structured out and I know what I want to say, yet when it comes to actually speaking those words, it all gets erased in an instant and I start babbling, missing information and doing a bad job of expressing how great I think this TV show is. I also have the trouble of remembering word definitions and when to use them. I'll google a word, think "oh that's a good word to use" and then completely forget it's meaning. Even words like vertical and horizontal, whilst I know instinctively what they are, I always have trouble what those words actually mean and feel like an idiot googling them to make sure they mean what I think they mean. An addition as I work through the video: my own head doesn't think in words but, as you describe, in forms, shapes and colours but also flashes (as someone else pointed out) and I have to interpret what they mean into sentences. I have to REALLY think hard to think in words but it's not instinctual.
INFP: Wow, Alex. I'm learning so much about you even though I've known you for 10 years! Also I think I woke my roommates up laughing at the end montage haha
OMG! I have the same issues articulating! Starting sentences and then realizing half way through the structure is not right or you can't find the right word to end it... Answering a question on a college exam or job interview way too succintly (I try to hit the target on the mark and sometimes they're looking for you to elaborate, and I find that a waste of time: if that's what they want me to do why not just fucking ask "babble/write about X for 5 minutes / a page"...?). I also use metaphores that are taken way out of context (the context/scope that I had thought), or think of some minute exception/ detail to thow everything I was explainig out or discredit it. With regards to remembering things, yeah, the raw data doesn't stick, only processed/ synthesized/ impressionistic/integrated into my mental model information (as Ralph Waldo Emerson said: "I cannot remember the books I've read any more than the meals I have eaten; even so, they have made me.") BTW, the last 2.5 minutes of the video are like me rehearsing possible questions for a job videointerview that I haven't rehearsed enough 😂!
I am an INTJ and I have basically 2 modes to explain things to others: a) the one I use 95% of the time is the one I try to find the specific words that are not jargon to convey the most in the least amount of words, and b) the one when I realize there is a ton of things I need to say and no amount of right words will do the work, in this case I start speaking really fast using simpler words in a very intuitive way, many standard deviations faster. "b" mode only happens when I know the subject with some good intuitive depth.
Hello, female INTJ here, and it's astonishing how much I can relate to everything you said.. This has always been one of my biggest problems and it's the one thing I'm most 'insecure' about. Especially because of the fact that I'm often meeting new people online, through groups about shared interests, and I find that I'm very good at writing my thoughts and engaging in an intellectual conversation online and I can even lead the conversation myself.. But then in real life is completely different, and since I realized a long time ago that I tend to stumble a lot and my attempts at verbalizing my thoughts come out as absolute incoherent rubbish (and I've been told this by some people as well), I now tend to revert to just replying with brief and vague sentences, and sometimes not even saying anything at all, because it's the only way i feel and appear to be in control. But I know that It's no solution, It's just such a shame because I know I'd have so much to contribute to the conversation, and it all goes to waste because I'm not quick enough irl to gather my thoughts together in the 'here and now'. It frustrates me that some people might think I'm putting on a 'persona' online whilst being a completely different, much slower and less knowledgeable or less intelligent person in real life. I want my voice to be heard in the world.. I want to shatter this 'wall' that's preventing me from making real connections with people and talking about issues that matter.. Because you can only do so much online, and I want to be engaged with the real world and get out of my safe zone so that I can actually achieve things. Anyways.. rant over. The point is.. As a fellow INTJ, do you have any tips, and do you think that with enough effort I could overcome this issue?
INTJ: I would say the only thing that can be done is communicating to others that you need time to process things mentally before speaking, and that there might be long pauses, but you'd appreciate being given the time you need to respond. I don't think we can change it in ourselves (except gradually over time, as we develop our Se), and I don't think it needs to be changed :) It might be uncommon and perhaps not understood or socially valued to take so much time to respond, but ultimately all cognitive functions or modalities of thinking have intrinsic value. I think overcoming our insecurities about it and realizing that processing time is necessary for us in order to give what we have to offer to the world will give us the confidence both to simply ask for others' patience and to take the time to say exactly what we want to say, which will actually probably make us more articulate if we aren't frantically trying to string a sentence together as quickly as possible haha
This is similar to how an autistic person feels. "Give me enough time to respond!" My first response these days is often something like "Hang on...let me think a minute."
I feel like when you say INTJ most people would think like cools, mysterious personality, superhuman, plotting world domination blah blah meanwhile INTJs are just going around being awkward and clumsy HAHA
When I speak to other INTJ’s they tend to understand me half-way through a sentence, even when that sentence doesn’t yet make any sense and observers have this face like: wtf!?! I think NI is a language of patterns and metaphors. TE is is like a collection of top-down patterns linked in hierarchies. Pattern A + Pattern B = pattern AB. The bottom-up data becomes irrelevant as soon as the pattern is reasonably assured by trails & error (a bit dangerous - lol, but INTJ’s eventually learn to think of these as theories instead of facts and use them to think in ever more widely associated patterns that fit a broader amount of parts of reality). Normal language is unwieldy and down-right ineffective at communicating hierarchically-linked patterns, especially to someone who doesn’t organize their inner representation (framework) of the world in that way. I think this is why NI-TE users immediately understand, while others don’t get it. When INTJs are asked to explain their idea - essentially, those other are asking for the TI (bottom-up) translation of their top-down frameworks, two problems arise: 1. English is bad at explaining hierarchies. 2. We tend to not care about the bottom-up definitions of things... So, think about how INTJ’s might handle word definitions and the attached concepts. We care about the concept, but not the definition. A word like throw, conceptually is not a lot different than toss, fling, wing, launch, etc, while each has a subtle difference in definition. To NI, these things are interchangeable at a base level and we don’t care about the details because the top-down framework does care in a conceptual way. It doesn’t inhibit NI-TE from shifting to the next ‘higher’ conceptual level... 😀🤪😂
I dont think this is an INTJ issue. I am INTJ, and though I dont like talking I am very articulate, well spoken and can explain abstract ideas and thoughts well. I still prefer writing when possible as it allows me to alter what I say.
This explains so much. I've always been so embarrassed by how I speak in front of people. I take pauses, I make jumbled sentences. My head runs a thousands miles a minute and it goes too fast for my mouth to keep up with. I've always felt that I appear intellectually ignorant when I speak. I'm much better at writing, that's how I tend to express my thoughts/feelings. I'm able to erase, and re-write. I also tend to problem solve easier that way.
INFJ, and I related to this video so much! Articulation problems! Ummmm.... totally cracking up at your last bits here. Is this what I look like? Laughing so hard!
I think you may perceive it this way now, but in reality, you guys are incredibly articulate and very skilled at communicating, as long as it isn’t via your emotions, and comes more from your intellect. This in I way means you don’t understand emotions, you do, very well and very deeply, but you must come from an intellectual place in order to express it effectively. I’m about 20 years older, I think, than you, so take this to heart, because I’m an INFJ, we get you. We adore you, in fact.
I can relate to this exactly. People often don't give you the time to think during conversations, and I need that pause to process and articulate my thoughts into words. Sometimes when I'm overwhelmed with stimulus in my environment, my mind just goes blank and I can't remember the word I was looking for. I find the last few years I've been getting better with it though, because I've been working to improve that part of me and I stay more relaxed. It's one of the things I envy about ENTJs.
I love seeing the strength of your search function, your body and mind are one as you spider across the ni. I especially love how you dead end on a path and get distracted by the camera. I love seeing myself in you. thank you:)
oh my god ! I never thought this would come from the personality I possess. I always was trying to find a solution to it, and thought it was a memory or concentration problem. Thank you for clarifying this !!!
I related to what you said about thinking in visual abstract thoughts rather than in words about concepts. One thing that’s helped me express myself is to express these visual thoughts as analogies. So if I can’t think of precisely what it is I’m trying to say I say what the thing is comparable to or can be represented by visually. For example, if I feel like I’m in control of my work I could say I feel like I’m driving a car, if I feel like a manager is being too controlling with me at work, then I could say I feel like a passenger in the car not getting to decide where we are heading to. Sometimes I can always find the words to express how I feel so these kinds of analogies can help people empathise with me in a way when I’m speaking to them.
Thank you for this. I am a turtle. It has taken a long while to accept because it can be frustrating. I think I take a lot in through Se, more than I am aware of and to the extent that I find it overwhelming and sometimes find I lose the actual internal processing, where I feel more comfortable and at peace. The stimuli I am taking in itself feels kind of dodgy at best and then the processing of that info jumps into a direction (or few) that doesn't seem to be related to the actual object. And because those directions are themselves not often something quite "real" or tangible, and connected to this whole other internal world (that would take a very long long and challenging time to communicate) built off of largely intangible impressions, it is really challenging to both know where to begin and what words to use. Then there's the need for honesty, accuracy and desire for clear communication.
very weird how you say youre talking and then you go onto a next line and forget and leave it hanging...happens to me all the time and its like i completely forget what im saying even though i had an intellectual thought
I’m an ISFP and I don’t usually struggle with articulation. I might pause for half a second to get the right word or sentence but with most things I don’t struggle much with articulation. However, when it comes to MBTI, I have such a deep Ni framework and I have difficulty describing the cognitive functions, which is causing me difficulty when making my MBTI guide. I usually understand things when I write them down. In my MBTI guide, I wrote down what each letter means and it’s so nice to finally have to information out of my confusing and complicated Ni framework and into words. It also impresses me how good at Ni INTJs are. Ni dominants create patterns out of other patterns and keep creating patterns until they have no clue what Se data the pattern was based on. And when and INXJ makes and Ni insight they usually have no clue what led them there, but I always know exactly how I got there. Same for that intuitive feeling. It’s usually rather conscious. The only Ni construct that I can’t explain is my MBTI one, which gives me some insight into the INTJs inner world and how extensive and complex it is.
I definitely relate to the "right" word escaping me. Sometimes I will go through a list of synonyms in my head and I'm like nope not that, not that either. Often I will just pick one that is close enough to convey the idea so I don't completely lose the person I'm talking to but it still leaves me feeling as though I didn't fully communicate what I wanted. I also find that part of the struggle with articulating is due to the fact that I can read other people so well (or so I think ;) ). It sounds counter-intuitive, but knowing how someone thinks and even seeing the bias or assumptions they have that lead them to the wrong conclusions.. this provides another layer for me to translate my thoughts/feelings through. It's like the game taboo where certain words or concepts are not allowed because I know the person I'm talking to will misunderstand what I mean or will jump to a wrong conclusion if I do use certain words or examples. Or just realizing that even if I do articulate what I'm feeling, knowing that the other person with their different functions will not understand the words to mean the same thing that I mean. It's hard to even articulate this.. but I often feel like I am able to understand other's point of view but they are not able to see mine, so I feel like I have to work extra hard. First, to get in their head and understand their perspective, then second to translate my inner world into something that they will understand. All the while, they are unaware that I'm doing this work, and since I understand them, they think they are just great at communicating and since they don't understand me, they think that I am slow or something lol...
Yup. This. Exactly this. I've just gone through the a bunch of job interviews, and not being able to articulate my thoughts, on the spot, in an easily understandable way was a serious problem for me. The way I think about it that INTJ's have a much more densely linked "Idea Web" than most other personality types. We build up how X is related to Y which influences Z to a higher degree. This is good, in that it allows us to think through situations far more thoroughly when given time, but it's bad when you're on the spot, because you need to spend so much time basically going down each particular idea branch to see if something is relevant to the topic at hand or not, where most people just wouldn't see the connection to begin with. And this is frustrating for so many reasons. I find one of the biggest causes of this is that people often ask questions (especially in interviews) that are far more complex and multi-faceted than they realize, so for me, the most important thing I can do is making sure I constrain my thought process as much as possible. Ask a bunch of basic questions figuring out the scope of the other persons thinking before even trying to articulate an actual answer.
Possible INFJ: I love this! I used to feel so down about my lack of articulation and thought that it had to do with anxiety or that I was just slow, or that it had to do with being bilingual... Sometimes I can't think of the simplest words. Thanks so much for your thoughts!
Super relatable. Especially about being unable to give simple answers to simple questions, I so often end up giving a whole conceptual background usually including several possible points of view. Reactions vary between polite nodding, phasing out, incomprehension and just sometimes an intelligent comment (my favourite because I'll actually learn something new :)
I almost always start with definitions that way we're all on the same page. My dad hates this. He wants things nice and succinct, yet when I do that he often doesn't get the concept, reinforcing why I start with definitions.
I am so glad you did mention thinking not in words, for me thinking feels like: For meaning of word go to brain cells from row a kolumn b. How dumb this might sound i usually think not using the words, i dont hear it as i type the text right now, It has pluses and minuses it is just much faster, but its super easy to forget.
As an INTP, I have the same issues; I think perhaps the primary issue is that our subjective introverted thoughts are simply too complex to be easily summarized, being stuck in detail rather than easily seeing the abstractions, and we have to figure out a way to translate these thoughts into a language consisting of words. It may be a problem that primarily introverted deep thinkers face.
Yup. Preach it Alex. (still watching...) I get the idea that we are actually not as practiced at speaking and searching for words, since our thoughts are not based on language, per se, but patterns and representations. Does that make sense?
Ok... Just caught up to you explaining Calypso thinking in words and how we don't really do that much. Maybe I need to listen to the whole video before commenting. I just don't like listening and not doing something else at the same time.
I am the same way though technically an INFJ. Ni Ti Fe Se, by the research of objective personality. I immediately know what I want to say but not how to say/explain it. It can become such an obstacle that I cannot proceed or say a single word. Trying too hard is counter-productive. It feels like having a fog inside your head. You fumble to see your way through. Grasping but air there are no formed thoughts. No substance, no definite phenomenon but the other side(what you know but can not yet express.) Perhaps it like seeing a new land but having no name for it. How would or could you describe a new world to someone else?
This is one of my biggest struggles in my job. Even when I’m right, I can’t easily articulate why I’m right because my solutions are based on massive amounts of subconscious intuitive observation.
Wow. Is that what's going on in there? Huh. I'm an INFP and this and your inner fantasy world video was extremely helpful in understanding my 2 intj close friends and my Mom. Thanks for including your struggle as well. Now that I better understand it I will strive to be much more patient with them.
I totally get the specific answer thing and its definitely connected to the lack of words thing. I feel like we have the core of understanding and acting and how that works, and we know how to use it well. It's the common core between people speaking different languages. You can get by full well without needing to communicate it as long as you can act on it and grow it. The concrete examples feel like extra fluff, less important stuff you only really need to prove that you know the thing, without needing to actually do the thing, so it's less focused on because it's like a waste of time. Many times I get asked "Heres what you do: Do this and that, and interact with this thing, and then send it to this other thing and finish it off by doing this". Usually I already have a picture of what I needed to be doing, but it's in that core sort of "floating" beneath the words that are being spoken to me. In order to confirm that I'm doing the right thing, I have to ask a million clarifying questions against what they said, and it's only at the end that it clicks that what they were telling me is what I was already planning on doing.
As an INTJ, it's always tough speaking without a clear cut outline to help out when I start drifting in thought. I'd start speaking very confidently for about 3-4 sentences, and then start drifting. And this has made it very difficult editing my UA-cam videos, where I have to cut out every. single. Um. Uhh. Ah. Ya know. and So. They add up when you put together a 10-15 minute video :D
I'm an INTJ male, but you and I share pretty much the same enigma with vocabulary and subtle articulation -- I think this has to do more, like you said, with the direct nature of our dominant Ni taking over. Also I notice we share the affinity in expression and that honest laughter.
OMG.... I have literally done this lots of times. Someone will ask me what I know seems to be an easy question to answer, but then I get a glazed look as I really think about what the words mean that are being asked and permutating all the things the person hadn't considered in wording the question, so it takes me about 5 minutes to answer a simple question like, "Don't you think that building over there is beautiful?"
lol, that's me with vocabulary. I wish it wasn't. And it's good to know other people have to back track their thought process and express the connections instead of a straight answer. And WHOA, INFPs get to have language-based thoughts? I've been wondering about that because I'm a writer and INTJ. INFPs are known to be writers. So many writers I talk to seem to be prolific--write fast, write a lot of projects, and write across so many subjects. My writing process is slow, always tinkering with ways to translate the abstract images in my head, and picking out a few favorite topic areas and flush them out differently. BUT, I don't have to go back and change much during edits--I say it almost right the first time, and with proper grammar. That edit at the end of the video was hilarious. I definitely do that.
INTJ here. I talk fine. They just listen incompetently! Seriously, I talk like you do. Pause, "translate" the thoughts, then a run of easy speech. I pause at the 3rd word of each sentence. I must drive people crazy. Also, the searching looks to try and visualize the data I'm communicating. Rocking helps me flow. I notice you rock too.
My ex was a pedant ISTP and grammar nazi. She would always get on me for using words improperly. I'd always say, "I understand, but you get the gist of what I'm trying to get at though right?" Response most of the time "No."😩. My aid on that issue is when I end up looking for a definition, I take a screenshot of it and save the picture to a "definitions" folder. Problem solved right?😅
I very much relate to the points you've gone through in this video. I tend to have trouble articulating myself in many situations, I take a while to collect my thoughts and thus I enjoy texting more than talking in person. Regarding the thoughts, my mind is filled with a mixture of images and words which doesn't help the buffering process.
INTJ: Thanks for your input! Cool to see someone else whose mind also operates in visual forms. Yeah, I do find I can be way more articulate over some form of text where you have the opportunity to think as much as you like.
I have found that I am able to improve my vocabulary by looking up the etymology of a word rather than the definition. The word makes sense and sticks in the memory better when you check its etymology. A mind that works primarily in abstraction does not need more abstraction, it needs information that makes the abstract more concrete. Etymology does this better than Definition.
I once took notes in symbols/doodles as an experiment because writing words down was too distracting. Lecturer thought I wasn't paying attention so I pointed to each symbol and got all the major points of her lecture. I only did that once and it requires re-translation into words before you forget what everything means but it could work as the written version of thinking in symbols (which I've never done actually)
I'm an infj. Unless I'm riding my FE finding words takes 5ever. And yes I always have noticed and been intrigued by the fact that my madd has images and landscapes to represent meanings rather than language, great video!!
I think sometimes my problems in articulation stem from either when I forget the names of things, finding the right words when I've got multiple things going on in my head, or if I'm feeling slightly anxious for one reason or another. Trying to turn the abstract into something for other people to understand isn't always the easiest thing in the world either. It all depends on the conversation at hand. If I feel like I'm being judged, I might blank out. If it's a topic on feelings, it's either abstract or I might just be a half-wit on the topic. Don't ask me for advice on that. If I'm being expected to entertain/talk with "new person", I know "hi" "how are you?" and answering questions. Give me a topic I know, I'll go on and on, until I've either finished my thoughts, something comes up, or if I just get rudely interrupted (which I may choose not to continue sharing, pissed).
Yes I can relate. The less sleep I have the worse my attempt at Si is. I rely on canned phrases and reteaching algorithms so that I repeat back practiced phrases like I'm reading a script. I've gotten very good at trusting myself to catch up if I just start talking. However, when someone tries to impose a change to my plans though it is very hard to for me to restructure in a hurry and explain why my plan is still the best. I instinctively know it is but don't have a canned response and I come to a Ni traffic jam. Luckily I can just stare at people and they get intimidated anyway.
Yes, I’ve definitely experienced not finding the correct word for a certain thought. I actually thought it was because don’t read enough 😆 So, I’m glad you brought it up.
Very good point about words... I personally tend to not be so sensitive about words, you know... abstract thinking... just trying to get to the main point... and it sometimes result in misunderstanding or people being upset 'cause not enough emotions :)) This is my first comment in youtube btw. All these MBTI stuff has made me really interested so I made an account. As an INTJ I've found it very useful and I think I have come to a new stage of self awareness and now trying to use this knowledge practically in real life.
INTJ: Well thanks for your first comment! Yeah, being too blunt sometimes, or just not relaying the emotions I'm feeling internally can be a problem for me. Yes, I've found MBTI such a powerful tool for self-awareness :)
I relate to this so much, really, I'm actually getting a lot more confident in the notion that I'man INTJ after watching your videoes. In another video you said this was also (what is that word?) very commen (I couldn't find it but replaced it) in younger INTJ's(I'm 14). But yes, I definitey relate to this.
I also want to add; that I find your channel very insightful, and I am learning quite a lot both about myself and other from watching your videoes. So thank you!
I struggle to find the balance between all or nothing, especially when I have a lot of thoughts on a matter that might result in the glazed over look. In those moments I may tend toward a yes/no approach which leaves others unsatisfied. Searching for the middle ground leaves me needing closure because I often don't know if I included the "proper" info, But that approach is usually best for others and I gotta be OK with just letting it be...
Masterful editing. Also, have you noticed that when Ni is focused by strong emotion, the words flow like a flash flood rather than a mud slide? Otherwise, Ni processes through its hidden algorithm in the background. Like a toaster, it knows when it’s done, and up pops the answer; complete and ready to consume.
I'm an INFP, and I also usually think in abstract forms that have to translated into language. As with most things, I think practice makes it easier. I've been teaching for a couple years, and that process is not quite so painstaking anymore.
I recently gave a presentation at work meeting about something that I know a lot about and have formed my own personal theories around... which was... interesting to say the least. I wanted to describe all of it as well as possible, and it was definitely tough. I feel like I see this whole beautiful ocean, and don’t know where to start in describing it. Ill either be too brief or I’ll go all in. I’ll talk about this here and that there and why it’s relevant to this and then more about this other thing and it can get really convoluted and murky in my mind. Like I’m splashing around in the water too much. I realized then that it’s way easier for me to answer clarifying questions than to describe. Does that make sense? Lol 100% with you for so much of this. I see symbols and images that move in and out and change and it all makes sense to me in my mind, just describing it can be difficult. Although I don’t pause as much as I should sometimes. I tend to let all the words just come out to convey the general meaning of the images I see before they leave. I think I’ve learned to sacrifice quality just to get the thoughts out there. Often the words are out of order grammatically and I can feel pretty dumb, luckily people are usually nice enough to just ignore it lol Writing (along with drawing) is WAY easier for me to get my thoughts across. It takes time though and LOTS of editing. And it tends to be long winded lol whoops
I mentioned in my previous comment how sometimes I'll scramble some words when thinking of multiple possibilities and trying to pick one, only to get my wires crossed and say either the wrong word or some kind of blended nonsense word...it occurred to me why exactly this might happen. I think seeing multiple possibilities at once is an Ne trait, but INTJs aren't used to this shadow function and so we get confused and are more error prone as a result. Ne moments almost always throw me off my mental stride.
This is very interesting. I’m an isfp and i experience some of the things you mentioned, though not all, which is expected. I find that i often need to reword my sentences while i am in the middle of saying one or just straight up going silent for a short while to gather my thoughts into a more coherent whole which i can then convey to others. But these things mostly occur when i am under some sort of pressure to respond (sort of like looping behavior) and under normal circumstances i still speak quite slowly but far more fluently. My speech seems far more laid back(?) than staggered when not stressed if that makes sense. Similarly, i also experience the ‘words exist in context’ thing you described. Even though i usually have a fairly full vocabulary when someone asks me for a word with a specific meaning i am at a loss, because words don’t exist out of context in my head. I may ask for the full sentence and then find the best fitting word if i can. And knowing definitions of words is the bane of my existance. I am not able to call up definitions at the drop of a hat for the life of me. But at the same time i am very capable at articulating myself. But the way you described the thinking itself as abstract shapes is quite alien to me. I either think in words, which i may mouth along if i feel the need or my thoughts just exist without a manifestation if i may. So yeah overall this has been really informative! What a good illustrative video.
I'm not sure what you read if you do read. But try reading philosophy or politics or economics. I think people in those spheres have the words you're looking for. Innately you already have your conclusion but now you have to set the trail for people to understand how you got there (conclusion). People (especially philosophy) I think have already found out how to do what you're trying to do. Now, once you've seen how they've communicated their ideas similar to yours (or exactly like yours), you can see how people reacted to it as well. So now you have a foundation for your conclusions and how to communicate them as well as an expected reaction. You can use that foundation to concoct your own and walla; magic. When you start reading those type of texts you'll having those "YES! THANK YOU! HOLY SHIT!" moments.
This is caused by the fact that our minds are racing in depth a million miles per hour. We can’t find the right word to describe the deep thoughts we’re having.
Well, I don't have respond to anyone in a complex way. But, I'm not sure that other people see the complexity. Sometimes they're suprised because something they thought was simple is actually complex. Normally, I just won't start interacting in an inefficient way (stumbling with words) if I can't be precise at the moment.
I talk fast and I stumble on words so often I sometimes wonder if I had a stroke :P But mostly it's just me trying to get multiple thoughts out at once.
for months i thought i was an infp, but the more i got into mbti the more i got confused between infp and infj. very different, but often confused, right? i think people get stuck in the letters, but for me, i think it was me recognizing fi and te that an infp has and ni and se that the infj has, but not really considering i was an intj until recently.
I am an INTJ as well, and my main issue in conversing is that I tend to go off on tangents. I do this because I feel a need to clarify every detail, and then by the time I am done breaking down one single piece of my conversation, the other person becomes exhausted by the details that seem so minute to them, but so important in forming opinions to myself. If there are any other INTJs that experience this, please tell me how I can work to avoid doing this or at least give concise information without all of the details that I see.
All I can say that I know to be true is that I've had and am now currently having similar experiences you've discussed in this video. I often find it difficult to articulate and express my intuitive understandings on various topics, usually suffering from a lack of the proper comprehensive vocabulary necessary to accurately explain my thoughts and ideas in a meaningful way. I then fixate on my lack of those perfect words for the experiences I have constantly, typically leaving myself in a state of disorder and shame as I continuously search for the means to properly explain myself in a way that satisfies both my needs to remain rational and to not be left alone and misunderstood as a result of poor communication skills. I don't know what kind of personality I actually have, I usually tend to ignore the things I'm unable to prove without a reasonable doubt, but I decided to leave this comment regardless of how I fear it may look from a retrospective standpoint... You seemed to communicate quite well, I found it hard to disagree with the majority of your statements. I'm glad there's people like you out there who has it in them to make videos like this. Thanks for uploading it.
I feel this comment is very cogent and I relate very closely. I doubt anyone would judge you harshly for what you have said. If you are this kind of person, it helps to forgive yourself for this foible and KNOW that it is in there and you just need a little more time than others to get the right words out. Perhaps you have other skills that people who can express themselves with ease may lack which would cause them to feel equally inadequate. While not always proveable, I find it helps me to think that there are trade offs in this world(especially when it comes to skills and abilities). It's hard for many people to be good at EVERYTHING. They exist, but they are unicorns. It is why we need all types in this world. Just another perspective. I totally get your frustration. I am victim to it as well. But I've come to realize that I need to cope with this situation in a more constructive way. The shame and fear of loneliness is real, but know there are people in this world who will understand you even when you are stumbling and others who are happy to be patient with you because they know what you have to say is meaningful to them. If someone can't/won't understand you, you might not really want them playing a meaningful role in your life anyway. I agree that Alex is able to express herself very well in the video, but did you watch the blooper reel at the end? (Nothing but love to Alex for including the ending. I still love it). You need to watch it if you haven't. 13:09
@@80808O After careful re-examination, and several re-testing of multiple versions of the same type of personality test, I think I'm scoring more as an INFP. I also think this might be more of an accurate analysis of my personality type which is interesting to me because I have a hard time placing myself into categories that have a lasting meaningful impression on me. I suppose I was "feeling" more than thinking when I posted that comment. Thanks for the encouraging reply though. Also, no I hadn't finished the video. Something came up right after I left that comment; you're right even the most seemingly articulate people have their moments. I like this channel and I look forward to watching the rest of the content. Thanks again for replying to my ramblings I appreciate the compassion in your words.
INTJ; I've found that as I get older and read more I can contribute to most conversations. (But introduce small talk and I'm gone!) I've also noticed that INTPs may be very similar in this regard, and, in general, share a lot of common traits.
Thanks! Looking for the right word in a specific situation, I know... painful haha. Sometimes you just believe there's something wrong with your mind. lol It helps to say: I have to think about the subject and come back to you. I have always the desire to speak perfect grammer rools etc. But if I can't find a word or I use the wrong word and people correct me I say thank you. And be greatful intjS for people helping you. Never get arrogant intj guys. ;)
I think many folks find themselves leaning on MBTI personality categories to ratify their known weaknesses. IME, an INTJ can be particularly articulate if he/she simply focuses on improving that skill. If someone is not an articulate and confident communicator, they can correct that problem. Poor communication is not a personality. It is a deficit one can improve.
Sometimes I get stuck mid-sentence looking for a word, when an image that's really hard to translate clogs up my translator. Thinking in images and trying to describe things to people who think in words is next to impossible for me, unless I'm given time to type it out.
The way this tends to affect my INTP life is when my INTJ dads wants me to do something but can’t explain in verbal instructions then gets mad when I don’t see the obvious intuitive connection in the physical world, but when it comes to ideological tasks I have already extrapolated his thought and articulated it before he gets the chance to finish but I still have to let him finish cause he’s an INTJ and look him in the eyes lmao
I strangely relate so much to this but pretty sure not INTJ :P My Te is pretty weak, leaning ISFP at the moment. Do Ne-Si users really have language-based thoughts? That must save so much time, lol. Just I guess everyone I've asked about this before was xNTJ or xSFP then. And about rules out my INFP mistype.
INTJ; this is why I prefer communicating in a textual form. I can delete a word I don't like and then send it, but when I'm speaking, I don't have that luxury. Additionally, I was always very knowledgeable and successful in grammar and composition (I also write fictional novels as a side job,) and I was always pretty good at speech classes, because I was prepared for either subject. If it's spontaneous conversation, then I'm far more awkward and appear to be even intellectually ignorant on something when I'm actually just trying to convey my thoughts properly.
INTJ: Yes, these are great points. I definitely relate to feeling ignorant around those who can respond quicker in conversation.
INTJ: YES. I’ve been struggling to find a video that elaborates on the disconnect between INTJ’s neatly organized ideas and the inability to be “swave” when verbalizing those concepts to others. Although I have many hypothetical discussions, or debates, with others in my mind, it's still baffling when the execution is clumsy in comparison to the well-formulated thoughts. This is even worse when engaging spontaneous conversation. Anyway, thank you for posting.
I can soo relate to the preference... grreeaat preference in text form... me in written and me in vocal just sound like 2 different people haha
Exactly!!! Very well said. Also because when I'm talking i can get veeeery self conscious and think about my next words too much and get lost easily. Not all the time, sometimes I can be very good at speaking, very rarely but I do surprise myself from time to time. Usually when I have a certain goal so I can let my Ni rest and go full Te Se mode. But very bad at answering spontaneous questions and conversations
psychocuda hahaha. I literally never answer phone calls lol
I think part of what happens with me is that my thoughts race faster than my ability to put them all into words. I know what I want to say, but I want to say it all at once, and in slowing down enough to get out one word at a time, I start to lose the thread. And in the meantime, my mind has already started racing ahead with more thoughts, and I struggle to separate it all. I also end up with a lot of blended non-words because in my haste to find the perfect word, sometimes two possibilities spring to mind and I start saying it before I've decisively chosen, resulting in a hybrid of both, which makes me look really stupid. Or I will have chosen one word, but blurted out the other one instead, and that catches me off guard and derails me completely.
I can so relate to saying hybrid words or thinking one word and saying another. Your description made me laugh out loud because it's so relatable.
Good to know others out there share the struggle.
Joseph, I am an ESTJ but I used to have this challenge too. My vocalizing ability was far behind my thought process. But over the years I improved my articulation and now I don’t get too frustrated with myself when trying to assign the right words to my ideas. Also, I have learned to be ok with not finding the most appropriate words to express myself as long the other person seems to understand my general idea well enough (is that pretty ESTJ?) For you as an INTJ, even after practicing articulation for a long time, is it still very difficult? I am getting to know an INTJ friend and would appreciate your insights. FYI, I do have a lot of respect for you guys.
I am INFP and I say hybrid words all the time. I enjoy writing and choosing the perfect words and sometimes they come to me at the same time.
same here
Haha totally relatable!
I notice that when I speak, I tend to make long pauses as I reflect on what I am trying to say, and then sometimes others think that it's because I'm confused about the subject - but it's not true!
INTJ: Yes, I hate when my pauses come across as confusion. For a while that fear made speak less, which certainly didn't help me improve haha
INTJ: this is literally the root of my insecurity. Thank you for this - going to work on enhancing my thought/response process and time.
Not INTJ but INFJ and I have difficulty speaking. I'll either pause way too long, trying to think of the word or I'll do the opposite and use several synonyms or closely related words to sketch out what I mean. Talking is like drawing. The lines either have to be clear and precise, conveying a very specific idea, or numerous and rough, conveying only the essence of my message and deliberately allowing for interpretation.
That analogy was really beautiful.
This is so very familiar to me. Whenever an interesting topic comes up in a conversation, I kind of withdraw into my head to think about it, but when I'm done and have a contribution, people are already talking about something else. It's so frustrating! I do wish I could just keep up with the flow of the conversation, but it's very difficult in a group. One-on-one conversations are generally much more to my taste.
My thoughts aren't so much abstract shapes as they are flashes. I usually know what they mean, but I find it very difficult to explain them to others. Starting a blog has saved me, since it's been the best way of self-expression I've found so far.
This blog idea is brilliant, even if writing it for myself - thank you!
Agreeeee harrrdd
That’s soo nice to hear this from others, I thought I was the one of the problem blaming my social skills. Thank you.
INTJ: I have such a hard time communicating and much prefer text because it allows me time to think and then erase words I don't want to use, whilst in speech I am always pausing and having a hard time remembering words, their definitions, and articulating what point I am trying to make. I can be witty yet the second it pops into my head and I speak it out loud, it doesn't have the same pay off. This is why I don't really like to talk and instead prefer it when others talk and I get to listen; yet my deepest desire is to be able to do the thing I cannot do. When I'm talking to myself I'll often stop mid sentence because, even though I know the word I want to use, I forget it and then have to spend time trying to remember what that word was.
One thing I've noticed is when I'm trying to explain something, let's say a TV show I've been watching, in my head all of the facts are structured out and I know what I want to say, yet when it comes to actually speaking those words, it all gets erased in an instant and I start babbling, missing information and doing a bad job of expressing how great I think this TV show is.
I also have the trouble of remembering word definitions and when to use them. I'll google a word, think "oh that's a good word to use" and then completely forget it's meaning. Even words like vertical and horizontal, whilst I know instinctively what they are, I always have trouble what those words actually mean and feel like an idiot googling them to make sure they mean what I think they mean.
An addition as I work through the video: my own head doesn't think in words but, as you describe, in forms, shapes and colours but also flashes (as someone else pointed out) and I have to interpret what they mean into sentences. I have to REALLY think hard to think in words but it's not instinctual.
INFP: Wow, Alex. I'm learning so much about you even though I've known you for 10 years! Also I think I woke my roommates up laughing at the end montage haha
INTJ: Haha yay xD
The end montage was awesome.
F
We extract the intuitive pattern and store it, then we forget the details because of our Si Demon.
OMG! I have the same issues articulating! Starting sentences and then realizing half way through the structure is not right or you can't find the right word to end it... Answering a question on a college exam or job interview way too succintly (I try to hit the target on the mark and sometimes they're looking for you to elaborate, and I find that a waste of time: if that's what they want me to do why not just fucking ask "babble/write about X for 5 minutes / a page"...?). I also use metaphores that are taken way out of context (the context/scope that I had thought), or think of some minute exception/ detail to thow everything I was explainig out or discredit it. With regards to remembering things, yeah, the raw data doesn't stick, only processed/ synthesized/ impressionistic/integrated into my mental model information (as Ralph Waldo Emerson said: "I cannot remember the books I've read any more than the meals I have eaten; even so, they have made me.") BTW, the last 2.5 minutes of the video are like me rehearsing possible questions for a job videointerview that I haven't rehearsed enough 😂!
i wanted it so bad to hear it from someone else. Not getting the right word at the right moment. Pretty much sums up my life. Thanku
I am an INTJ and I have basically 2 modes to explain things to others:
a) the one I use 95% of the time is the one I try to find the specific words that are not jargon to convey the most in the least amount of words, and
b) the one when I realize there is a ton of things I need to say and no amount of right words will do the work, in this case I start speaking really fast using simpler words in a very intuitive way, many standard deviations faster.
"b" mode only happens when I know the subject with some good intuitive depth.
Hello, female INTJ here, and it's astonishing how much I can relate to everything you said.. This has always been one of my biggest problems and it's the one thing I'm most 'insecure' about. Especially because of the fact that I'm often meeting new people online, through groups about shared interests, and I find that I'm very good at writing my thoughts and engaging in an intellectual conversation online and I can even lead the conversation myself.. But then in real life is completely different, and since I realized a long time ago that I tend to stumble a lot and my attempts at verbalizing my thoughts come out as absolute incoherent rubbish (and I've been told this by some people as well), I now tend to revert to just replying with brief and vague sentences, and sometimes not even saying anything at all, because it's the only way i feel and appear to be in control. But I know that It's no solution, It's just such a shame because I know I'd have so much to contribute to the conversation, and it all goes to waste because I'm not quick enough irl to gather my thoughts together in the 'here and now'. It frustrates me that some people might think I'm putting on a 'persona' online whilst being a completely different, much slower and less knowledgeable or less intelligent person in real life. I want my voice to be heard in the world.. I want to shatter this 'wall' that's preventing me from making real connections with people and talking about issues that matter.. Because you can only do so much online, and I want to be engaged with the real world and get out of my safe zone so that I can actually achieve things. Anyways.. rant over. The point is.. As a fellow INTJ, do you have any tips, and do you think that with enough effort I could overcome this issue?
INTJ: I would say the only thing that can be done is communicating to others that you need time to process things mentally before speaking, and that there might be long pauses, but you'd appreciate being given the time you need to respond. I don't think we can change it in ourselves (except gradually over time, as we develop our Se), and I don't think it needs to be changed :) It might be uncommon and perhaps not understood or socially valued to take so much time to respond, but ultimately all cognitive functions or modalities of thinking have intrinsic value. I think overcoming our insecurities about it and realizing that processing time is necessary for us in order to give what we have to offer to the world will give us the confidence both to simply ask for others' patience and to take the time to say exactly what we want to say, which will actually probably make us more articulate if we aren't frantically trying to string a sentence together as quickly as possible haha
This is similar to how an autistic person feels. "Give me enough time to respond!" My first response these days is often something like "Hang on...let me think a minute."
yes, keep putting yourself out there & talking & it'll get better....
I feel like when you say INTJ most people would think like cools, mysterious personality, superhuman, plotting world domination blah blah meanwhile INTJs are just going around being awkward and clumsy HAHA
When I speak to other INTJ’s they tend to understand me half-way through a sentence, even when that sentence doesn’t yet make any sense and observers have this face like: wtf!?! I think NI is a language of patterns and metaphors. TE is is like a collection of top-down patterns linked in hierarchies. Pattern A + Pattern B = pattern AB. The bottom-up data becomes irrelevant as soon as the pattern is reasonably assured by trails & error (a bit dangerous - lol, but INTJ’s eventually learn to think of these as theories instead of facts and use them to think in ever more widely associated patterns that fit a broader amount of parts of reality). Normal language is unwieldy and down-right ineffective at communicating hierarchically-linked patterns, especially to someone who doesn’t organize their inner representation (framework) of the world in that way. I think this is why NI-TE users immediately understand, while others don’t get it. When INTJs are asked to explain their idea - essentially, those other are asking for the TI (bottom-up) translation of their top-down frameworks, two problems arise: 1. English is bad at explaining hierarchies. 2. We tend to not care about the bottom-up definitions of things... So, think about how INTJ’s might handle word definitions and the attached concepts. We care about the concept, but not the definition. A word like throw, conceptually is not a lot different than toss, fling, wing, launch, etc, while each has a subtle difference in definition. To NI, these things are interchangeable at a base level and we don’t care about the details because the top-down framework does care in a conceptual way. It doesn’t inhibit NI-TE from shifting to the next ‘higher’ conceptual level... 😀🤪😂
I was thinking/trying to remember the details of our communication processes to combine them with CPT! Thank you for doing it for me
Wow! I thought I was alone in this. This video is very helpful. This also helps me describe my thought process to people.
me too! i struggle with articulating my thoughts for a longest time, its better in text than verbal...
I dont think this is an INTJ issue. I am INTJ, and though I dont like talking I am very articulate, well spoken and can explain abstract ideas and thoughts well. I still prefer writing when possible as it allows me to alter what I say.
This explains so much. I've always been so embarrassed by how I speak in front of people. I take pauses, I make jumbled sentences. My head runs a thousands miles a minute and it goes too fast for my mouth to keep up with. I've always felt that I appear intellectually ignorant when I speak. I'm much better at writing, that's how I tend to express my thoughts/feelings. I'm able to erase, and re-write. I also tend to problem solve easier that way.
This confirms to me that I am an INTJ. Absolutely. No doubt. The struggle is real.
INFJ, and I related to this video so much! Articulation problems! Ummmm.... totally cracking up at your last bits here. Is this what I look like? Laughing so hard!
I think you may perceive it this way now, but in reality, you guys are incredibly articulate and very skilled at communicating, as long as it isn’t via your emotions, and comes more from your intellect. This in I way means you don’t understand emotions, you do, very well and very deeply, but you must come from an intellectual place in order to express it effectively. I’m about 20 years older, I think, than you, so take this to heart, because I’m an INFJ, we get you. We adore you, in fact.
I've been looking for answers so long. Thank you, I had no idea this would be the meaning.
I can relate to this exactly. People often don't give you the time to think during conversations, and I need that pause to process and articulate my thoughts into words. Sometimes when I'm overwhelmed with stimulus in my environment, my mind just goes blank and I can't remember the word I was looking for. I find the last few years I've been getting better with it though, because I've been working to improve that part of me and I stay more relaxed. It's one of the things I envy about ENTJs.
I love seeing the strength of your search function, your body and mind are one as you spider across the ni. I especially love how you dead end on a path and get distracted by the camera. I love seeing myself in you. thank you:)
INTJ: Thanks! Yes, seeing yourself in other INTJs is always a cool experience :)
INTJ: Great video. I have these same struggles. My videos are full of edits. I'm getting better though. Thanks for posting.
oh my god ! I never thought this would come from the personality I possess. I always was trying to find a solution to it, and thought it was a memory or concentration problem. Thank you for clarifying this !!!
I related to what you said about thinking in visual abstract thoughts rather than in words about concepts. One thing that’s helped me express myself is to express these visual thoughts as analogies. So if I can’t think of precisely what it is I’m trying to say I say what the thing is comparable to or can be represented by visually. For example, if I feel like I’m in control of my work I could say I feel like I’m driving a car, if I feel like a manager is being too controlling with me at work, then I could say I feel like a passenger in the car not getting to decide where we are heading to. Sometimes I can always find the words to express how I feel so these kinds of analogies can help people empathise with me in a way when I’m speaking to them.
Thank you for this.
I am a turtle. It has taken a long while to accept because it can be frustrating.
I think I take a lot in through Se, more than I am aware of and to the extent that I find it overwhelming and sometimes find I lose the actual internal processing, where I feel more comfortable and at peace. The stimuli I am taking in itself feels kind of dodgy at best and then the processing of that info jumps into a direction (or few) that doesn't seem to be related to the actual object. And because those directions are themselves not often something quite "real" or tangible, and connected to this whole other internal world (that would take a very long long and challenging time to communicate) built off of largely intangible impressions, it is really challenging to both know where to begin and what words to use.
Then there's the need for honesty, accuracy and desire for clear communication.
This is 100% accurate
very weird how you say youre talking and then you go onto a next line and forget and leave it hanging...happens to me all the time and its like i completely forget what im saying even though i had an intellectual thought
You communicate like I do. Same look of struggling with expression and the slow carefully trying to flow the words together.
The last minute and a half of this is the true heroic beauty
I’m an ISFP and I don’t usually struggle with articulation. I might pause for half a second to get the right word or sentence but with most things I don’t struggle much with articulation. However, when it comes to MBTI, I have such a deep Ni framework and I have difficulty describing the cognitive functions, which is causing me difficulty when making my MBTI guide. I usually understand things when I write them down. In my MBTI guide, I wrote down what each letter means and it’s so nice to finally have to information out of my confusing and complicated Ni framework and into words. It also impresses me how good at Ni INTJs are. Ni dominants create patterns out of other patterns and keep creating patterns until they have no clue what Se data the pattern was based on. And when and INXJ makes and Ni insight they usually have no clue what led them there, but I always know exactly how I got there. Same for that intuitive feeling. It’s usually rather conscious. The only Ni construct that I can’t explain is my MBTI one, which gives me some insight into the INTJs inner world and how extensive and complex it is.
I definitely relate to the "right" word escaping me. Sometimes I will go through a list of synonyms in my head and I'm like nope not that, not that either. Often I will just pick one that is close enough to convey the idea so I don't completely lose the person I'm talking to but it still leaves me feeling as though I didn't fully communicate what I wanted. I also find that part of the struggle with articulating is due to the fact that I can read other people so well (or so I think ;) ). It sounds counter-intuitive, but knowing how someone thinks and even seeing the bias or assumptions they have that lead them to the wrong conclusions.. this provides another layer for me to translate my thoughts/feelings through. It's like the game taboo where certain words or concepts are not allowed because I know the person I'm talking to will misunderstand what I mean or will jump to a wrong conclusion if I do use certain words or examples. Or just realizing that even if I do articulate what I'm feeling, knowing that the other person with their different functions will not understand the words to mean the same thing that I mean. It's hard to even articulate this.. but I often feel like I am able to understand other's point of view but they are not able to see mine, so I feel like I have to work extra hard. First, to get in their head and understand their perspective, then second to translate my inner world into something that they will understand. All the while, they are unaware that I'm doing this work, and since I understand them, they think they are just great at communicating and since they don't understand me, they think that I am slow or something lol...
So good to hear from another INTJ
Yup. This. Exactly this. I've just gone through the a bunch of job interviews, and not being able to articulate my thoughts, on the spot, in an easily understandable way was a serious problem for me. The way I think about it that INTJ's have a much more densely linked "Idea Web" than most other personality types. We build up how X is related to Y which influences Z to a higher degree.
This is good, in that it allows us to think through situations far more thoroughly when given time, but it's bad when you're on the spot, because you need to spend so much time basically going down each particular idea branch to see if something is relevant to the topic at hand or not, where most people just wouldn't see the connection to begin with.
And this is frustrating for so many reasons. I find one of the biggest causes of this is that people often ask questions (especially in interviews) that are far more complex and multi-faceted than they realize, so for me, the most important thing I can do is making sure I constrain my thought process as much as possible. Ask a bunch of basic questions figuring out the scope of the other persons thinking before even trying to articulate an actual answer.
Possible INFJ: I love this! I used to feel so down about my lack of articulation and thought that it had to do with anxiety or that I was just slow, or that it had to do with being bilingual... Sometimes I can't think of the simplest words. Thanks so much for your thoughts!
Super relatable. Especially about being unable to give simple answers to simple questions, I so often end up giving a whole conceptual background usually including several possible points of view. Reactions vary between polite nodding, phasing out, incomprehension and just sometimes an intelligent comment (my favourite because I'll actually learn something new :)
This is exactly why I started making live videos on Facebook. It gives me practice in real time without pressure.
I loved the end. Makes me want to suggest an INTJ Lair about sense of humor.
I almost always start with definitions that way we're all on the same page. My dad hates this. He wants things nice and succinct, yet when I do that he often doesn't get the concept, reinforcing why I start with definitions.
i definately relate...and your end montage was 100%
I am so glad you did mention thinking not in words, for me thinking feels like:
For meaning of word go to brain cells from row a kolumn b.
How dumb this might sound i usually think not using the words, i dont hear it as i type the text right now,
It has pluses and minuses it is just much faster, but its super easy to forget.
As an INTP, I have the same issues; I think perhaps the primary issue is that our subjective introverted thoughts are simply too complex to be easily summarized, being stuck in detail rather than easily seeing the abstractions, and we have to figure out a way to translate these thoughts into a language consisting of words. It may be a problem that primarily introverted deep thinkers face.
Yup. Preach it Alex. (still watching...) I get the idea that we are actually not as practiced at speaking and searching for words, since our thoughts are not based on language, per se, but patterns and representations. Does that make sense?
Ok... Just caught up to you explaining Calypso thinking in words and how we don't really do that much. Maybe I need to listen to the whole video before commenting. I just don't like listening and not doing something else at the same time.
Ok... Last comment... I so do that ending thing!!! An hour of footage for about 10 minutes of finished video. So frustrating. LOL
I am the same way though technically an INFJ. Ni Ti Fe Se, by the research of objective personality.
I immediately know what I want to say but not how to say/explain it. It can become such an obstacle that I cannot proceed or say a single word. Trying too hard is counter-productive. It feels like having a fog inside your head. You fumble to see your way through. Grasping but air there are no formed thoughts. No substance, no definite phenomenon but the other side(what you know but can not yet express.)
Perhaps it like seeing a new land but having no name for it. How would or could you describe a new world to someone else?
Very relatable. I think I've said many of the exact same sentences, in the same way, as you have in this video.
This is one of my biggest struggles in my job. Even when I’m right, I can’t easily articulate why I’m right because my solutions are based on massive amounts of subconscious intuitive observation.
Yesssss. I relate.
Wow. Is that what's going on in there? Huh. I'm an INFP and this and your inner fantasy world video was extremely helpful in understanding my 2 intj close friends and my Mom. Thanks for including your struggle as well. Now that I better understand it I will strive to be much more patient with them.
I totally get the specific answer thing and its definitely connected to the lack of words thing.
I feel like we have the core of understanding and acting and how that works, and we know how to use it well. It's the common core between people speaking different languages.
You can get by full well without needing to communicate it as long as you can act on it and grow it.
The concrete examples feel like extra fluff, less important stuff you only really need to prove that you know the thing, without needing to actually do the thing, so it's less focused on because it's like a waste of time.
Many times I get asked "Heres what you do: Do this and that, and interact with this thing, and then send it to this other thing and finish it off by doing this". Usually I already have a picture of what I needed to be doing, but it's in that core sort of "floating" beneath the words that are being spoken to me.
In order to confirm that I'm doing the right thing, I have to ask a million clarifying questions against what they said, and it's only at the end that it clicks that what they were telling me is what I was already planning on doing.
As an INTJ, it's always tough speaking without a clear cut outline to help out when I start drifting in thought. I'd start speaking very confidently for about 3-4 sentences, and then start drifting. And this has made it very difficult editing my UA-cam videos, where I have to cut out every. single. Um. Uhh. Ah. Ya know. and So. They add up when you put together a 10-15 minute video :D
INTJ: Haha yes, the editing struggle is real xD
I'm an INTJ male, but you and I share pretty much the same enigma with vocabulary and subtle articulation -- I think this has to do more, like you said, with the direct nature of our dominant Ni taking over. Also I notice we share the affinity in expression and that honest laughter.
OMG.... I have literally done this lots of times. Someone will ask me what I know seems to be an easy question to answer, but then I get a glazed look as I really think about what the words mean that are being asked and permutating all the things the person hadn't considered in wording the question, so it takes me about 5 minutes to answer a simple question like, "Don't you think that building over there is beautiful?"
lol, that's me with vocabulary. I wish it wasn't. And it's good to know other people have to back track their thought process and express the connections instead of a straight answer.
And WHOA, INFPs get to have language-based thoughts? I've been wondering about that because I'm a writer and INTJ. INFPs are known to be writers. So many writers I talk to seem to be prolific--write fast, write a lot of projects, and write across so many subjects. My writing process is slow, always tinkering with ways to translate the abstract images in my head, and picking out a few favorite topic areas and flush them out differently. BUT, I don't have to go back and change much during edits--I say it almost right the first time, and with proper grammar.
That edit at the end of the video was hilarious. I definitely do that.
INTJ: Oh cool, I really relate to your process of writing!
INTJ here. I talk fine. They just listen incompetently!
Seriously, I talk like you do. Pause, "translate" the thoughts, then a run of easy speech. I pause at the 3rd word of each sentence. I must drive people crazy. Also, the searching looks to try and visualize the data I'm communicating. Rocking helps me flow. I notice you rock too.
...and thank god for Jump Cuts! lol. It's the only way I can get things out without long pauses. :-\
Love that ending! I see those eyes going back and forth..."processing...processing..." LOL. I'm just like that.
My ex was a pedant ISTP and grammar nazi. She would always get on me for using words improperly. I'd always say, "I understand, but you get the gist of what I'm trying to get at though right?" Response most of the time "No."😩. My aid on that issue is when I end up looking for a definition, I take a screenshot of it and save the picture to a "definitions" folder.
Problem solved right?😅
I very much relate to the points you've gone through in this video. I tend to have trouble articulating myself in many situations, I take a while to collect my thoughts and thus I enjoy texting more than talking in person. Regarding the thoughts, my mind is filled with a mixture of images and words which doesn't help the buffering process.
INTJ: Thanks for your input! Cool to see someone else whose mind also operates in visual forms. Yeah, I do find I can be way more articulate over some form of text where you have the opportunity to think as much as you like.
I have found that I am able to improve my vocabulary by looking up the etymology of a word rather than the definition. The word makes sense and sticks in the memory better when you check its etymology. A mind that works primarily in abstraction does not need more abstraction, it needs information that makes the abstract more concrete. Etymology does this better than Definition.
I once took notes in symbols/doodles as an experiment because writing words down was too distracting. Lecturer thought I wasn't paying attention so I pointed to each symbol and got all the major points of her lecture. I only did that once and it requires re-translation into words before you forget what everything means but it could work as the written version of thinking in symbols (which I've never done actually)
I'm an infj. Unless I'm riding my FE finding words takes 5ever. And yes I always have noticed and been intrigued by the fact that my madd has images and landscapes to represent meanings rather than language, great video!!
INTJ: Very cool, thanks!
I think sometimes my problems in articulation stem from either when I forget the names of things, finding the right words when I've got multiple things going on in my head, or if I'm feeling slightly anxious for one reason or another. Trying to turn the abstract into something for other people to understand isn't always the easiest thing in the world either. It all depends on the conversation at hand. If I feel like I'm being judged, I might blank out. If it's a topic on feelings, it's either abstract or I might just be a half-wit on the topic. Don't ask me for advice on that. If I'm being expected to entertain/talk with "new person", I know "hi" "how are you?" and answering questions. Give me a topic I know, I'll go on and on, until I've either finished my thoughts, something comes up, or if I just get rudely interrupted (which I may choose not to continue sharing, pissed).
Wow ! You just explain my inner insecurities. Because if this, I doubt if it is possible to be an intj due to not explaining myself properly .
Yes I can relate. The less sleep I have the worse my attempt at Si is. I rely on canned phrases and reteaching algorithms so that I repeat back practiced phrases like I'm reading a script. I've gotten very good at trusting myself to catch up if I just start talking. However, when someone tries to impose a change to my plans though it is very hard to for me to restructure in a hurry and explain why my plan is still the best. I instinctively know it is but don't have a canned response and I come to a Ni traffic jam. Luckily I can just stare at people and they get intimidated anyway.
Yes, I’ve definitely experienced not finding the correct word for a certain thought. I actually thought it was because don’t read enough 😆 So, I’m glad you brought it up.
Very good point about words... I personally tend to not be so sensitive about words, you know... abstract thinking... just trying to get to the main point... and it sometimes result in misunderstanding or people being upset 'cause not enough emotions :))
This is my first comment in youtube btw. All these MBTI stuff has made me really interested so I made an account. As an INTJ I've found it very useful and I think I have come to a new stage of self awareness and now trying to use this knowledge practically in real life.
INTJ: Well thanks for your first comment! Yeah, being too blunt sometimes, or just not relaying the emotions I'm feeling internally can be a problem for me. Yes, I've found MBTI such a powerful tool for self-awareness :)
I relate to this so much, really, I'm actually getting a lot more confident in the notion that I'man INTJ after watching your videoes. In another video you said this was also (what is that word?) very commen (I couldn't find it but replaced it) in younger INTJ's(I'm 14). But yes, I definitey relate to this.
I also want to add; that I find your channel very insightful, and I am learning quite a lot both about myself and other from watching your videoes. So thank you!
I struggle to find the balance between all or nothing, especially when I have a lot of thoughts on a matter that might result in the glazed over look. In those moments I may tend toward a yes/no approach which leaves others unsatisfied. Searching for the middle ground leaves me needing closure because I often don't know if I included the "proper" info, But that approach is usually best for others and I gotta be OK with just letting it be...
Masterful editing. Also, have you noticed that when Ni is focused by strong emotion, the words flow like a flash flood rather than a mud slide? Otherwise, Ni processes through its hidden algorithm in the background. Like a toaster, it knows when it’s done, and up pops the answer; complete and ready to consume.
I'm an INFP, and I also usually think in abstract forms that have to translated into language. As with most things, I think practice makes it easier. I've been teaching for a couple years, and that process is not quite so painstaking anymore.
Hahaha that ending was cute af. So glad I have an understanding of why I do that same thing... I used to just think something was wrong with me.
I recently gave a presentation at work meeting about something that I know a lot about and have formed my own personal theories around... which was... interesting to say the least. I wanted to describe all of it as well as possible, and it was definitely tough.
I feel like I see this whole beautiful ocean, and don’t know where to start in describing it. Ill either be too brief or I’ll go all in. I’ll talk about this here and that there and why it’s relevant to this and then more about this other thing and it can get really convoluted and murky in my mind. Like I’m splashing around in the water too much.
I realized then that it’s way easier for me to answer clarifying questions than to describe. Does that make sense? Lol
100% with you for so much of this. I see symbols and images that move in and out and change and it all makes sense to me in my mind, just describing it can be difficult. Although I don’t pause as much as I should sometimes. I tend to let all the words just come out to convey the general meaning of the images I see before they leave. I think I’ve learned to sacrifice quality just to get the thoughts out there. Often the words are out of order grammatically and I can feel pretty dumb, luckily people are usually nice enough to just ignore it lol
Writing (along with drawing) is WAY easier for me to get my thoughts across. It takes time though and LOTS of editing. And it tends to be long winded lol whoops
I mentioned in my previous comment how sometimes I'll scramble some words when thinking of multiple possibilities and trying to pick one, only to get my wires crossed and say either the wrong word or some kind of blended nonsense word...it occurred to me why exactly this might happen. I think seeing multiple possibilities at once is an Ne trait, but INTJs aren't used to this shadow function and so we get confused and are more error prone as a result. Ne moments almost always throw me off my mental stride.
Oh my gosh this is too accurate
This is very interesting. I’m an isfp and i experience some of the things you mentioned, though not all, which is expected. I find that i often need to reword my sentences while i am in the middle of saying one or just straight up going silent for a short while to gather my thoughts into a more coherent whole which i can then convey to others. But these things mostly occur when i am under some sort of pressure to respond (sort of like looping behavior) and under normal circumstances i still speak quite slowly but far more fluently. My speech seems far more laid back(?) than staggered when not stressed if that makes sense.
Similarly, i also experience the ‘words exist in context’ thing you described. Even though i usually have a fairly full vocabulary when someone asks me for a word with a specific meaning i am at a loss, because words don’t exist out of context in my head. I may ask for the full sentence and then find the best fitting word if i can. And knowing definitions of words is the bane of my existance. I am not able to call up definitions at the drop of a hat for the life of me. But at the same time i am very capable at articulating myself.
But the way you described the thinking itself as abstract shapes is quite alien to me. I either think in words, which i may mouth along if i feel the need or my thoughts just exist without a manifestation if i may.
So yeah overall this has been really informative! What a good illustrative video.
I'm not sure what you read if you do read. But try reading philosophy or politics or economics. I think people in those spheres have the words you're looking for. Innately you already have your conclusion but now you have to set the trail for people to understand how you got there (conclusion). People (especially philosophy) I think have already found out how to do what you're trying to do. Now, once you've seen how they've communicated their ideas similar to yours (or exactly like yours), you can see how people reacted to it as well. So now you have a foundation for your conclusions and how to communicate them as well as an expected reaction. You can use that foundation to concoct your own and walla; magic. When you start reading those type of texts you'll having those "YES! THANK YOU! HOLY SHIT!" moments.
The gist, yes, this every day. You need to read the neuroscience of personality. It will explain why.
INTJ: Nice, I do want to buy that book one day haha
This is caused by the fact that our minds are racing in depth a million miles per hour. We can’t find the right word to describe the deep thoughts we’re having.
I totally make some of the same kind of talking and physical microexpressions as yourself! Even though I’m an ISFP and not INTJ.
Well, I don't have respond to anyone in a complex way. But, I'm not sure that other people see the complexity. Sometimes they're suprised because something they thought was simple is actually complex. Normally, I just won't start interacting in an inefficient way (stumbling with words) if I can't be precise at the moment.
I talk fast and I stumble on words so often I sometimes wonder if I had a stroke :P But mostly it's just me trying to get multiple thoughts out at once.
for months i thought i was an infp, but the more i got into mbti the more i got confused between infp and infj. very different, but often confused, right? i think people get stuck in the letters, but for me, i think it was me recognizing fi and te that an infp has and ni and se that the infj has, but not really considering i was an intj until recently.
I am an INTJ as well, and my main issue in conversing is that I tend to go off on tangents. I do this because I feel a need to clarify every detail, and then by the time I am done breaking down one single piece of my conversation, the other person becomes exhausted by the details that seem so minute to them, but so important in forming opinions to myself. If there are any other INTJs that experience this, please tell me how I can work to avoid doing this or at least give concise information without all of the details that I see.
When I was younger and child, my father always told me : "articulate when you speak." It was hurtful
All I can say that I know to be true is that I've had and am now currently having similar experiences you've discussed in this video. I often find it difficult to articulate and express my intuitive understandings on various topics, usually suffering from a lack of the proper comprehensive vocabulary necessary to accurately explain my thoughts and ideas in a meaningful way. I then fixate on my lack of those perfect words for the experiences I have constantly, typically leaving myself in a state of disorder and shame as I continuously search for the means to properly explain myself in a way that satisfies both my needs to remain rational and to not be left alone and misunderstood as a result of poor communication skills. I don't know what kind of personality I actually have, I usually tend to ignore the things I'm unable to prove without a reasonable doubt, but I decided to leave this comment regardless of how I fear it may look from a retrospective standpoint... You seemed to communicate quite well, I found it hard to disagree with the majority of your statements. I'm glad there's people like you out there who has it in them to make videos like this. Thanks for uploading it.
I feel this comment is very cogent and I relate very closely. I doubt anyone would judge you harshly for what you have said. If you are this kind of person, it helps to forgive yourself for this foible and KNOW that it is in there and you just need a little more time than others to get the right words out. Perhaps you have other skills that people who can express themselves with ease may lack which would cause them to feel equally inadequate. While not always proveable, I find it helps me to think that there are trade offs in this world(especially when it comes to skills and abilities). It's hard for many people to be good at EVERYTHING. They exist, but they are unicorns. It is why we need all types in this world.
Just another perspective. I totally get your frustration. I am victim to it as well. But I've come to realize that I need to cope with this situation in a more constructive way. The shame and fear of loneliness is real, but know there are people in this world who will understand you even when you are stumbling and others who are happy to be patient with you because they know what you have to say is meaningful to them. If someone can't/won't understand you, you might not really want them playing a meaningful role in your life anyway.
I agree that Alex is able to express herself very well in the video, but did you watch the blooper reel at the end? (Nothing but love to Alex for including the ending. I still love it). You need to watch it if you haven't. 13:09
@@80808O After careful re-examination, and several re-testing of multiple versions of the same type of personality test, I think I'm scoring more as an INFP. I also think this might be more of an accurate analysis of my personality type which is interesting to me because I have a hard time placing myself into categories that have a lasting meaningful impression on me. I suppose I was "feeling" more than thinking when I posted that comment. Thanks for the encouraging reply though.
Also, no I hadn't finished the video. Something came up right after I left that comment; you're right even the most seemingly articulate people have their moments. I like this channel and I look forward to watching the rest of the content. Thanks again for replying to my ramblings I appreciate the compassion in your words.
You talk just like I do. I have so much trouble with articulation, always have.
INTJ; I've found that as I get older and read more I can contribute to most conversations. (But introduce small talk and I'm gone!) I've also noticed that INTPs may be very similar in this regard, and, in general, share a lot of common traits.
Thanks! Looking for the right word in a specific situation, I know... painful haha. Sometimes you just believe there's something wrong with your mind. lol It helps to say: I have to think about the subject and come back to you.
I have always the desire to speak perfect grammer rools etc. But if I can't find a word or I use the wrong word and people correct me I say thank you. And be greatful intjS for people helping you. Never get arrogant intj guys. ;)
I am an INTJ and I articulate excellent. Even more when I am mad.
True, it very difficult to articulate. manytimes it feels like stuck
When I make a video, it looks so great in my head but doesn't really work out so great once I've done it. Such a struggle.
I could see myself through you!
I think many folks find themselves leaning on MBTI personality categories to ratify their known weaknesses. IME, an INTJ can be particularly articulate if he/she simply focuses on improving that skill. If someone is not an articulate and confident communicator, they can correct that problem. Poor communication is not a personality. It is a deficit one can improve.
As an INTJ i do relate to this, more than I'd like to admit
Sometimes I get stuck mid-sentence looking for a word, when an image that's really hard to translate clogs up my translator. Thinking in images and trying to describe things to people who think in words is next to impossible for me, unless I'm given time to type it out.
The way this tends to affect my INTP life is when my INTJ dads wants me to do something but can’t explain in verbal instructions then gets mad when I don’t see the obvious intuitive connection in the physical world, but when it comes to ideological tasks I have already extrapolated his thought and articulated it before he gets the chance to finish but I still have to let him finish cause he’s an INTJ and look him in the eyes lmao
I strangely relate so much to this but pretty sure not INTJ :P My Te is pretty weak, leaning ISFP at the moment. Do Ne-Si users really have language-based thoughts? That must save so much time, lol. Just I guess everyone I've asked about this before was xNTJ or xSFP then. And about rules out my INFP mistype.
I feel less alone (weird), when I listen to these videos and read the comments.
Love when you giggle ! :)