What are PID Tuning Parameters?
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- Опубліковано 16 лип 2024
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▶ Check out the full blog post over at
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⌚Timestamps:
00:00 - PID Introduction
00:59 - PID Temperature Control
03:06 - Closed/Open-Loop Control
04:24 - Gas Flowrate PID Control
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PID is an acronym for Proportional, Integral, and Derivative. A PID controller is a device that is used to control a process.
The controller can be a physical, stand-alone device or a control block found in a PLC function database.
The PID portion of the controller is a series of numbers that are used as adjustments in order to achieve your objective.
A very simple example of a PID controller would be the regulation of a heating and air conditioning system in a home.
Although there is a lot more to the controller than this example, this will give you a basic idea of the purpose of a device like this.
Consider that you have the temperature in your home set to 70 degrees Fahrenheit. This setting would be called the Setpoint or “SP” for short.
The current reading from the thermostat is 68 degrees Fahrenheit. This term is the Process Variable or “PV”. The heating or cooling unit is the Control Variable or “CV”. The Control Variable may also be referred to as the Manipulated Variable or “MV”.
There are different types of control action and for the temperature control in the house, the controller action is a direct-acting device meaning that the calculations are Setpoint minus Process Variable (SP-PV).
In our house example, we have a SetPoint of 70 and the Process Variable is 68 degrees Fahrenheit.
For this control when we subtract the Process Variable from the SetPoint we see that we have a value of 2. This result is called the Error or “E” in our process.
In the simplest terms, our house is too cool and the controller tells the heating unit to turn on. Remember, we are trying to get to 70 degrees. The unit will remain ON until the Error in our process becomes zero.
Now let’s say that someone opens a window in the house and it’s very cold outside. This disruption in the process is called Disturbance.
The factors in this process control may be:
- “How fast do we want the temperature to reach the setpoint”.
- “What could disturb our process”?
Clearly, there are many factors that can impact our processes and adjusting our controller’s parameters is how we deal with those factors.
In an industrial plant, since there are many factors that we need to consider, we need a robust controller that takes our parameters into account and does hundreds of calculations to determine where the process is and where it needs to go.
Say we need to control gas flow through a pipe. The Setpoint of gas flow is calculated based on a calculation of some factors. This Setpoint can change at any time based on the parameters used in the calculation.
We will control this flow based on a modulating valve. In this case, the more open the valve, the more gas allowed to flow. The requested position of the valve is our Control Variable.
Downstream of this modulating valve we have a flow meter that will measure the gas flowing through the pipe, this is our feedback or our Process Variable.
Let’s take a step back and talk about the parameters that we will be adjusting for our control.
First, the PID term, as stated earlier, stands for Proportional, Integral, and Derivative. These parameters can be used individually or collectively.
Meaning, you can have just a proportional controller, a proportional and integral, a proportional and derivative, or of course a proportional, integral, and derivative controller.
To sum it all up, we, as control engineers, need to control processes and in order to do that, we use devices available to us in order to facilitate that function.
The stand-alone and integrated PID controller is the most widely used device for that purpose.
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#RealPars #PID #PIDTuning
So I just happened to fall into the field of automation by chance and your videos have helped me so much when it comes to building my control panels and designing my systems. I've gone from a guy who barely knew what an Ohm was to designing, troubleshooting, building and installing process control panels for all sorts of applications. I don't know where I would be without RealPars. A lot of times I hate going to ask the Engineers in the office what they think as a lot of them just start taking over the processes and avoid trying to teach me what's needed to complete the task. I may not be an engineer by Degree but for the past 5 years I've been able basically teach myself how to act like one. Thanks RP!
Hi Adam,
Wow, what an amazing compliment and more so, what an amazing achievement!
We are very glad to read this! Keep up the learning curve, and always feel free to reach out if you have any questions along the way.
Very impressive!
This is one of the best channels on UA-cam for industrial automation and PLC related topics.
Thanks a lot for your support, Kenny! What a great compliment. Happy learning!
I found your courses very helpful and I am proud of you realpars team all my greetings to you all.
Thanks a million, Sameer! Amazing support!
Hello I'm a electrical engineer working in maritime industry. I find your videos very interesting and easy to understand. Though I'm in to PLC programming but after watching your preseni I have developed great interest in control systems.
Great to hear that, Saurabh! Keep up the learning curve!
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I would like to thank you for this wonderful channel.
I have taken a course on measurements and control but through your channel's explanation, I can say that my information is getting better.
Hi Abdo, thanks a lot for your kind compliment! We are always extremely happy to hear such positive feedback! If you ever have any questions, feel free to reach out to us. Happy learning!
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Helpful courses to learn and score knowledge to PLC engineers ... thank you and
appreciate realpars team.
You are very welcome! Happy learning and let us know if you have any questions along the way!
The explanations are great, i get simple tuning tips of pid parameters
1. Usually, we use PI controller without D
2. First, disable I and D, give little P parameter, and see the tune result; double P parameter until overshoot and vibration arise. Then change the P parameter to 5o%.
Thank you very much!
An outstanding simplify video. Thank you so much.
Great to hear that, Shami! Thank you.
I might be retarded but I find it hilarious how I can get nothing from a 6 hour lecture but a 7 minute video helps me understand everything.
mee too
Totally. I read quite a bit on PID and I was attempting to understand WTF is going on and what I need to set for a water recirculation system. None of the articles I read helped and my boss just makes a comment on what each one means. He simplified it like in this video and it just all of a sudden clicked and I was like "HOW THE HELL DID THIS JUST HAPPEN?"
I LOVE RealPars. They are a little dry but for me they explain everything so well for people without major engineering backgrounds.
Sir your videos are amazing and it's helping me in day to day work. I learned many things which I just read in books and here I can find it in practical manner
Hi Vivek,
Thanks a lot for sharing your positive feedback with us! We are always happy to hear that. If you have any questions along the way, always feel free to reach out to us!
Have you also had a chance to check out our free course on PLC Hardware? bit.ly/2XnnUrF
Happy learning!
Congrats !!
This is the best channel to learn automation and instrumentation.
Thumbs up if you want videos about:
Pressure regulator valve
Back pressure regulator valve
Hi Cris,
Thanks a lot for your support and thanks for sharing your suggestion with us! I have sent this over to our course developers.
Happy learning!
Exactly what I need. Thanks real pars.
You're very welcome!
Using the first example, sometimes you will hear the temperature sensor referred to as the primary control element and the heater referred to as the final control element.
Oh my God
PID Tuning
Thank you very much I have studied it today in my class lecture . Thank you a lot you have best timing RealPers.
You are very welcome, Qaiser! Let us know if you have any questions along the way!
Happy learning!
@@realpars Thank you a lot, Thank you very much you have already done enough for me and other pioneers.
This video help me to call back my memory about PID. Last time i learn about this topic 3 years ago lol
That's amazing, Fadhil! Keep up the learning curve!
Thank you for yours videos. Great work. I refreshed my knowlegde from subject automatization and appling on exacting industry. Thanx!
That's amazing! Great job. You are very welcome, feel free to leave any question you might have in the comment section.
Happy learning!
Hey another metallurgist?!
@@silasdiniz hi!
Great as always. your courses are partners to engineers and technologies applications to push all countries toward innovations and more safe conditions within all industrial fields . personally, thanks to your clear explanations i recuperate my old information with trust. thank you and keep help to all engineers and technicians in every facility .
Thanks for your support! Great to hear. Let us know if you have any questions!
@@realpars telecontrol networks (Radio; GPRS, GPS, multiplexer, etc...) . The advantages of every one of them and what is the best in the harsh environments.
Good stuff . Much appreciated 🤙
Thank you!
The best way I heard PID explained was correcting error by looking at accumulated error over the past which would be the I component, the present which would be the P component, and the future by the D component.
With the help of..DR RORPOPOR HERBAL ON UA-cam i have been cured totally from PID....
You are so great team ... thank you very very very very much :)
Ahmed from egypt :))
Thank you, Ahmed! Happy learning!
Great video.
Thank again real pars.
Our pleasure!
appreciate the video...explanation is just awesome....
Thanks a lot!
Thank for making this simple.
Glad it was helpful!
With the help of..DR RORPOPOR HERBAL ON UA-cam i have been cured totally from PID....
thank you so much, your video is really helpful
That's great to hear! Thanks a lot for your support and happy learning!
Why did I pay for college? This is so much easier to understand than my control systems professor
That's an amazing compliment! Thanks a lot!
RealPars bvfgggvgvvgg
You are correct!
Uhhh.. no. You paid for college to make it easier to understand these video's.
Because knowledge, the real knowledge, is a force that nobody wants to give you, even for money!
Realy it's a very interesting and thanks of your contributions
Hi Smail,
Great to hear that! Thanks a lot for sharing that with us.
Happy learning!
Thank you very much!
You're welcome!
Thank you so much!! *^^*
You are very welcome!
the best channel ..thank you
You're very welcome! Thanks for your kind support
Look forward to pay in order to learn more of this.................mostly informative place for industrial automation Engineering
Thanks a lot, August! Happy to see you joining the RealPars family soon!
Thanks for this video
Plz plz make a series about how can we programe a PID controller and other calculations that are required to implement a PID controller in a process
Please add this series in RealPars course for Beginners to Advance.
You are very welcome! We have already added a course on our library on How to Configure a PID Controller in TIA Portal. You can watch it here: learn.realpars.com/how-to-configure-a-pid-controller-in-tia-portal
We are adding a new video to this course each week! Happy learning.
"The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is - whichever is greater - it obtains a difference or deviation. The guidance subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the missile from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position that it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is is now the position that it wasn't, and if follows that the position that it was is now the position that it isn't. In the event that the position that the position that it is in is not the position that it wasn't, the system has acquired a variation. The variation being the difference between where the missile is and where it wasn't. If variation is considered to be a significant factor, it too may be corrected by the GEA. However, the missile must also know where it was. The missile guidance computer scenario works as follows: Because a variation has modified some of the information that the missile has obtained, it is not sure just where it is. However, it is sure where it isn't, within reason, and it know where it was. It now subtracts where it should be from where it wasn't, or vice versa. And by differentiating this from the algebraic sum of where it shouldn't be and where it was, it is able to obtain the deviation and its variation, which is called error."
i like your videos, thank you!
Glad you like them!
Thank you
You're welcome!
I am waiting for your next vedio, always
Hi Nazim, great to hear your enthusiasm! We will launch a new course video again on Monday.
Happy learning!
It is explained that there are different effects for each type of PID controller mode in the cruise controller of a car speed? the different effects of these three modes.
Proportional - makes output adjustments proportional to the error between SP and PV (difference between how fast you are going and how fast you want to go). The larger the difference (error), the larger the adjustment. If you are going 30mph and need to go 50mph, you press on the gas harder than if you start at 45mph.
Integral - makes output adjustments proportional to how long the PV has spent away from the SP. The integral adjustment adds an adjustment in the same direction (+ or -) to the output as the proportional action. This is analogous to still not being up to speed after accelerating (proportional changes).
Derivative acts on the rate of change of the error. If I am accelerating and I start going down a hill and gain speed, derivative tells me to let off the gas to keep from overshooting the setpoint since my speed will accelerate as I go downhill.
daaammm i loveeed the closed loop eaxmple
Happy to hear that! :)
Nice education video
Thanks for your support, Muthu! Happy learning!
Excellent video. What software do you use to do your excellent animation?
Hi Emile, thanks for your great compliment! I am not sure about that as it is all done by our graphic and animation department.
Happy learning!
For animation maybe they use TIA portal for programming the hmi with all vues
Nice video. Any hint when the next video will be available?
Hi Ruan,
Thanks a lot! We always upload a new video on UA-cam every Monday.
Happy learning!
The training courses that you've on your website, are these just the tutorial videos or do you also provide access to some kind of PLC software to train on?
Hey!
Thanks for your comment!
To answer your question, although it is not required to have access to PLC software to be able to complete our courses. It would, of course, be greatly beneficial if you could practice the material, therefore we provide the option to purchase STEP7 software, either by itself or in a Starter Kit over here bit.ly/2l4YjWD
Hopefully, this answers your question sufficiently. If you have any other questions or would like any further assistance, feel free to reach back out or email us at hello@realpars.com
We are more than happy to help!
Happy learning!
Great video! At about the 6:20 mark, you say that each one of the combos have their own place in the control world. Could you elaborate on this? Do you mean things such as industrial presses, pumps/flow, ect. Which combo should we use for what task?
The use of P, I, and D elements in an industrial control scheme depends upon the application. The PI combination is most widely used for all types of control, since P-only control will always end up with an offset between SP and PV, and Integral is very efficient at eliminating that offset and keeping the PV near the SP. Derivative (D) is useful for processes that do not exhibit a large amount of noise or disturbances A noisy flow signal, for example, is not well-suited for any combination that includes the Derivative term. Therefore, flow loops often are just controlled using PI controllers. Pressure and temperature, depending on the stability of the process measurement, can benefit from PID or PD control. A more detailed presentation of PID control is available on the RealPars.com website in a multi-part video series. Check it out!
@@realpars will do! I must if missed them, I'll check them out 👍
for flow control final control element must be after feedback element/flowmeter
as far as I know
The flow meter is most often placed after the final control element. This is true for not only flow control loops, but other types of loops as well (temperature and pressure). Level control sensors are often placed in the tank, which would be upstream of the control valve on the outlet of the tank.
@@realpars yes,....will plz let me know why in flow control loop final control element is on upstream of feedback...I searched through Google but can't get enough explanation
❤
Hi. Please make a video about "model predictive control" . this control method is used in the chemical and petrochemical industries. thank you.
Hey Farzad!
Thanks for your comment and your suggestion. I will pass this on to our course developers!
Thanks for sharing and happy learning!
Can you Use PLC instead of stand-alone PID controller?? Like if you implement difference equation in PLC to control the plant?
Absoluitely! PLC's are able to be configured to control multiple loops with a single controller. In this video, we keep it simple by introducing you to PID control using a sing;e-;loop controller. For industrial processes, a PLC is widely used because it is able to handle many loops with one controller.
Can you please upload a vdo on potential free contact with circuit diagram and what is interrogation voltage.
Hey!
Thanks for your comment and your suggestion. I will pass this on to our course developers!
Thanks for sharing and happy learning!
@@realpars please...
Sir can a pid temperature controller be set according to thermocouple type..I had encounterd a past issue like this in which I had to set the type as K but the controller showing J type as default and PT100 as temperature setpoint and the setting was unsuccessful... kindly please clear the doubt
A thermocouple (or an RTD) in a temperature loop can be constructed from different materials. Both a "J" and "K"-type thermocouples work in the same way (generate a varying millivolt signal with temperature), but each needs a different conversion algorithm to convert from a millivolts value to temperature. Therefore, the transmitter or controller input needs to be configured or set to the same type of device (thermocouple or RTD) and same properties (J thermocouple or Pt100 RTD, for examples) as is installed in the process. Pt100 is a setting for an RTD, not a thermocouple, so if you used that setting for your input, your temperature value will not be correct. Moist controllers, transmitters, or specialized T/C or RTD inpout cards allow the type of device to be easily configured in the hardware setup.
I read in a website that the controlled variable is not changed, but the manipulated is. Since the steering wheel can be moved around, this variable is changing...why is not the steering wheel then called manipulated variable instead? I am confused now..
First, in feedback control loop terminoogy, the most proper term for the steering wheel would have been "manipulated variable". This is the variable that is changed in response to a feedback signal in order to maintain a setpoint. However, the manipulated variable is also often called the "Control Variable". The issue with definitions is due to the use of "control variable" in many other contexts. The definition you gave comes from experimental science, where one variable, the control variable, is held constant while other variables are varied. So the term "control variable" can be a little confusing because of its many contexts.
Where is that episode referred to at 6:40 ?
We have an advanced course on PID Loops on the Realpars.com website. I agree the there is a tuning episode referred to at 6:40 of this video, but as of today, a UA-cam video on setting tuning parameters has not been released. Stay tuned!
Hi!ay
The physical position of control valve and flowmeter is not correct.
Valve must be installed downstream after flowmeter.
The flow meter is often placed after the final control element. This is true for not only flow control loops, but other types of loops as well (temperature and pressure). Level control sensors are often placed in the tank, which would be upstream of the control valve on the outlet of the tank. The one case where I definitely would place the flow meter upstream of a control valve is where the discharge of the control valve goes into a process line that quickly ends up at atmospheric pressure. The only consideration is that some flow meters, like orifice plates, need well-developed flow profiles to operate correctly.
Hello,
Thanks alot for your video
But , I wanna study plc from zero & I don't know how to get the start
can you help me please
at first, you need to select plc.
at second, download manual for this plc.
read, read, read and cry.
Hi Yasmina,
Great to hear your motivation!
We have a whole course library filled with over 400+ video courses on PLC programming. Our courses are hands-on and specifically designed for beginners to grow into an advanced level on their own pace with our Technical Team ready to assist you with any question you might have during your course.
Feel free to browse through our course library realpars.com/
If you have any questions about our courses, feel free to reach back out or email in at hello@realpars.com
Happy learning!
@@realpars oh, thanks alot.😍
اقدر اساعد ؟
@@ahmedmetwally4911 ياريت والله لو مش هتقل على حضرتك ، كنت عاوزة ابدأ فى مجال الplc ومش عندى خبرة فيه يعنى هبدا من الزيرو تقريبا
When flowmeter is installted before control valve and used after control valve...pls ans this sir....
if it flow meter is installed before control valve can is it worked at same process....
Yes. The flowmeter can be installed upstream or downstream of the control valve. There may be a preferred location, however, based on the flowmeter type or other considerations. An orifice flow meter needs a very stable flow profile entering the meter, so upstream may be a better choice. A heat exchanger may take a lot of heat out of a process stream, and placing the meter downstream may provide a better environmental condition for measuring flow. A control valve that reduces pressure on a high-pressure stream so that it vaporizes (flashes), would need flow meter to be installed upstream on the liquid side of the valve. So you can see, there are many factors that need to be considered when locating the position of a flow meter in a process line.
thank u sir for replying my message....One more question sir...whenever we installed a control valve and flow meter device..why we are take this device in a loop system.....pls answer this...
And my question was...why the flow meter is installed before the control valve in a loop system.....
can we installed flow meter after the control valve in a loop system....
@@dibakarsarkar5530 Yes, please refer to my initial answer to your original question. The flow meter does not care where it is in relationship to the control valve. The only consideration relates to the flow profile -- a flow meter performs better, in most cases, when the incoming flow profile (turbulence, pressure, flow, etc.) is well-developed and steady.
@@dibakarsarkar5530 A control loop is only required when you desire to control the flow by measuring the flow rate and using it to position the control valve to maintain the flow rate at a given setpoint. This close-coupled feedback arrangement allows the system to maintain a steady flow rate.
Make us a free courses about PLCs
Hi Nadir,
We already have! :)
You can register for our free bundle with loads of free video courses via the following link:
learn.realpars.com/
Happy learning!
Confusing, that is what they are...
😁
Hoping that our video courses will help clear the confusion :). If there are specific topics/themes that are causing the confusion, please let us know - we would happily provide a new video course on that.
@@realpars Your videos do help. But it does not change the fact that PIDs are confusing. If they were not confusing, there would be no need for you to make several videos that attempt to reduce or eliminate the confusion. 😁
Only envious people can hit dislike for this video