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Bolas wouldn't have had a chance against Yawgmoth. For Yawgmoth, old godlike planeswalkers were insects unworthy of his attention. Even Urza literally begged Yawgmoth at the end of his life to make him understand the perfection of Phurexia. Yawgmoth has always been the ultimate badass ;)
So this really turned into one of those Batman vs Superman questions... in which case, the real question is what would be the funniest thing to substitute in for their "Martha" moment?
"For being so old, you throw a tantrum like a child." Ajani to Nicol Bolas. Nicol Bolas would never take Urza seriously, he would be like, "I have lived douzens of your lifetimes, you think your couple millennia are significant, compared to me you are still an infant struggling to crawl." While Urza would have Karn charge the Nuke from 5 planes away.
Urza:in that instance,you would be right. But you underestimate mortals capacity for ruthlessness. I have burned my world to the ground to end phyrexia. I killed mishra myself. And when i am nothing but ash...so to will you know obilvion in time. For not even a dragon is inmortal.
I have to agree. Now I wouldn’t be surprised if Urza has planned a way for him to be brought back sometime in the future considering that his plans are so well detailed and a good amount of his tech is still in functioning order after so long.
Yeah this is perfect. I’d actually back any oldwalker of note against Urza in an unplanned confrontation; non-walkers Gix, K’rrik, and Radiant all had him beaten until others/fate intervened. I’m much more familiar with Urza’s lore than Bolas’ (started playing in the Urza’s era but stopped for nearly 20 (!) years) but long thought the dragon would have routinely outmatched him. This adds a good bit of nuance - a great assessment. Something that sprang to mind is that it seems Bolas planned meticulously for his enemies’ weaknesses; Urza also planned for his own (handy, ‘cos he had loads).
Who would win: A dragon with many machinations who collected powerful artifacts from across the mulitiverse to achieve godhood. One old angry boy with a tentacle man for a bomb.
I totally agree with your scenarios. The couple times Bolas bests the Gatewatch, it is ENTIRELY because he catches them by surprise. The one time he let them form a plan, with redundancies, the War of the Spark, they managed to win. Initially the plan was to use Sarkhan Vol's ability to trap Bolas in the meditation realm conjoined with Jace's nigh-omnipotence on Ravnica, but they had contingencies set up in the event that failed. Granted, Liliana's betrayal of Bolas ended the fight, but even before then, even with the Amonkhet gods as playthings, Bolas really would not have won...it just would have cost more than Gideon's death to beat him.
I agree! Bolas does seem to have a prodigious mind, but he always relies on his own power being a notch or two over everybody else's. Urza may have gone insane, but probably that contibuted to his incredibly complex way of thinking and planning ( like when he kept recreating the final battle of the brother's war with small artifacts) Lovely video as always! Would love to see more like this, especially about old planeswalkers!
I feel like Bolas’ best chance at beating Urza in scenario 2 is like what he did against Ugin & Azor. Find the best time to attack with all his might before the plan can be completed.
Dream: A planeswalker fighting game. Just a battle between planeswalkers fighting with their specialty of magic and creatures. Hitting another planeswalker so hard you force them to your preferred plane is a dream.
Urza: How many Ornithopters does it take to kill a dragon? Bolas: you fool, Ornithopters have no power! Urza: That are fleeing from a Cylex Blast, Temporal planeshift, multi dimension fuckup I do regularly on a tuesday?
I want Bolas to have children I want to see son/daughter would backstab and even be the greater threat the the gatewatch. I want his son/daughter to learn from their mistakes because I would like him to come back but I feel like it's time he has an offer spring to follow his footstep.
Well, one is a selfish, manipulative, careless, eugenicist and one is a big ass Dragon who even post mending was powerful enough to destroy worlds. Yeah Urza is gonna get smoked every plot he ever had failed or if it succeeded it was entirely in spite of him
So Urza is like the magic multiverse's version of Batman with cascading contingency plans within plans. I wonder who would win between Batman and Urza. 🤔
Sure, Bolas always loses because of his arrogance, but surely that's because thats the only way he can possibly lose? Over 30,000 years and eventually you're gonna get overconfident once or twice. Losing less than once every 5,000 years isnt' too bad.
@@The_Loreseeker True but was ugin even aware of urza during his 4000 years of him being alive. Because urza like jace would most likely want destroy seeing as like phyrexia they are too dangerous to live. And just jace, I can see him going bat shit insane if tries fight him on his own let alone withstand being in there presence
Good video, how about the Phyrexian Vs Eldrazi? You can probably break it down between Old Phyrexia and New Phyrexia, see which is stronger. Chance are we will get something like this in future sets so might as well get it done early so when it does happen you have a video ready for people searching for it.
Urza was a pre-mending planeswalker. I think he would have the upper hand on nicobolus. Even though nicobolus would probably have schemes within schemes within schemes to prevent it
I need to know this. Who would win: Sorin or Karn? Will The Silver Golem come down with a sudden and fatal case of being-in-the-way-of-a-millennia-old-vampire?
So it's basically like Superman vs Batman. Random encounter goes to Bolas With prep time Urza has a plan with back up plans A-Z with multiple backups to each.
I mean if it was someone like Urza and his mad lad plans winning the day, I wouldn’t have been so upset with the shit writing that got Bolas defeated in War of the Spark. If someone as intelligent and dangerous as Bolas is going to loose the big war/fight, have it be from someone believable of pulling that off! 🤣
@@leoregulus5842 He can be, temporarily, but it's not perfect. I recommend reading the Battle for Zendikar/Oath of the Gatewatch story for more details.
Wow. could not disagree more. Urza was no stranger to planeswalker duels, even winning some early on purely on the basis that he was so powerful as compared to other planeswalkers. We can't assume that urza simply be more powerful than bolas so lets assume they were relatively equal in terms of arcane power. Even the phyrexians learned that physical means of hunting urza never worked very well. It is much more likely that the fight would devolve into a pure battle of mental power as it did in Urza's fight against Gix. Hard to say who has the edge there. As written Bolas probably has the edge especially post-mending. I might agree that Urza is a better long term planner, but Bolas has only ever had one strategy in these cases. He would turn his enemies' allies against them. So, it would depend heavily on how well Urza could keep his plans secret from Bolas. As written Bolas probably has the edge. Urza has always been my favorite character and I've never liked Bolas, but I would probably give him an edge in both scenarios and not for the same reasons you did. I certainly think there are many ways Urza could win and easily but if i try to be fair to the character i don't like I think he is stronger in areas that oppose Urza well.
I like this way of looking at the possibility - Urza vs Bolas WOULD almost certainly come down to a battle of wills, but Urza has demonstrated (such as in his first attack against Phyrexia) that he's not exactly great in that regard.
@@The_Loreseeker agreed. I haven't read all the Bolas Lore, but I think in general there has been more written about Urza and his weaknesses and his loses that it is easier to imagine ways in which he might lose vs simply believing Bolas's arrogance would allow a more than competent opponent to get the better of him. 👍
Honestly I think that Bolas has a slight advantage, being not just a planeswalker but an Elder Dragon. Elder Dragons were some of the most powerful creatures in the multiverse, second only to the Eldrazi and The Ur-Dragon itself and were capable of taking on old-walkers( see Dakkon Blackblade vs Chromium and Piru).
While this is true, keep in mind that Dakkon was just a simple blacksmith originally where Urza was a prodigy artificer. Physcial fight, def agree, much like scenario A, but Bolas's plans came apart because Liliana grew a conscions and no longer was concerned about her own fate. Yes it was more complicated than that, but that was the start of his plans unraveling.
@@alyssazachariahswarat673 Fair Point, and on that last part I think Bolas' plan started to fail was when he took the Gem of Becoming and didn't think to use identify on it.
a magnificient video, still dissapointed to know that nicol bolas ended as a 1/1 flying token that probably is dead due to a bad corporative choice, but taking away that, all the scenarios are pretty well exectued, even they would be pretty awesome to see
![Who are Gisa and Geralf? [MTG Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LQgB5MXx5m4/mqdefault.jpg)
Bolas is an adult picking on kids in the playground.
Urza is an ant killing giants.
Nice would love to see bolas vs yawgmoth
Emrakul vs Phyrexia
Yawgmoth wins!
Bolas wouldn't have had a chance against Yawgmoth. For Yawgmoth, old godlike planeswalkers were insects unworthy of his attention. Even Urza literally begged Yawgmoth at the end of his life to make him understand the perfection of Phurexia. Yawgmoth has always been the ultimate badass ;)
So this really turned into one of those Batman vs Superman questions... in which case, the real question is what would be the funniest thing to substitute in for their "Martha" moment?
"Mishra...."
"WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME????"
@@The_Loreseeker *facepalm* I can't believe I missed something that obvious
"For being so old, you throw a tantrum like a child." Ajani to Nicol Bolas.
Nicol Bolas would never take Urza seriously, he would be like, "I have lived douzens of your lifetimes, you think your couple millennia are significant, compared to me you are still an infant struggling to crawl."
While Urza would have Karn charge the Nuke from 5 planes away.
Urza:in that instance,you would be right. But you underestimate mortals capacity for ruthlessness. I have burned my world to the ground to end phyrexia. I killed mishra myself. And when i am nothing but ash...so to will you know obilvion in time. For not even a dragon is inmortal.
LOL@@lolbots686
your channel is so underexposed, your storytelling, clarity, vibe and that VOICE! absolutely love your content, keep it up please!
Thanks for the kind words, man!
I have to agree. Now I wouldn’t be surprised if Urza has planned a way for him to be brought back sometime in the future considering that his plans are so well detailed and a good amount of his tech is still in functioning order after so long.
Yeah this is perfect. I’d actually back any oldwalker of note against Urza in an unplanned confrontation; non-walkers Gix, K’rrik, and Radiant all had him beaten until others/fate intervened. I’m much more familiar with Urza’s lore than Bolas’ (started playing in the Urza’s era but stopped for nearly 20 (!) years) but long thought the dragon would have routinely outmatched him. This adds a good bit of nuance - a great assessment. Something that sprang to mind is that it seems Bolas planned meticulously for his enemies’ weaknesses; Urza also planned for his own (handy, ‘cos he had loads).
"Bolas planed meticulously for his enemies' weaknesses; Urza also planned for his own" is such a good line I'm kinda miffed I didn't think of it.
Nice, always like to see these kinda breakdowns. My money would be on Urza fust from what he has done in the past.
Who would win: A dragon with many machinations who collected powerful artifacts from across the mulitiverse to achieve godhood.
One old angry boy with a tentacle man for a bomb.
Urza as a dragon is a legit terrifying proposition
I totally agree with your scenarios. The couple times Bolas bests the Gatewatch, it is ENTIRELY because he catches them by surprise. The one time he let them form a plan, with redundancies, the War of the Spark, they managed to win. Initially the plan was to use Sarkhan Vol's ability to trap Bolas in the meditation realm conjoined with Jace's nigh-omnipotence on Ravnica, but they had contingencies set up in the event that failed. Granted, Liliana's betrayal of Bolas ended the fight, but even before then, even with the Amonkhet gods as playthings, Bolas really would not have won...it just would have cost more than Gideon's death to beat him.
I agree! Bolas does seem to have a prodigious mind, but he always relies on his own power being a notch or two over everybody else's. Urza may have gone insane, but probably that contibuted to his incredibly complex way of thinking and planning ( like when he kept recreating the final battle of the brother's war with small artifacts)
Lovely video as always!
Would love to see more like this, especially about old planeswalkers!
I feel like Bolas’ best chance at beating Urza in scenario 2 is like what he did against Ugin & Azor. Find the best time to attack with all his might before the plan can be completed.
There is also the 3rd outcome... They both get erased when Garruk or Chad show up.
Nicol Bolas is the Dr Doom of Mtg...a badass
Urza beats everything & everyone..he is broken..Bolas vs Urza..never would I think Bolas had a chance.
Bolas would get his shit rocked. Urza is as smart as Bolas pretends to be.
Dream: A planeswalker fighting game. Just a battle between planeswalkers fighting with their specialty of magic and creatures. Hitting another planeswalker so hard you force them to your preferred plane is a dream.
So an evil manipulative tyrant who ruined so many lives…or bolas?
Urza: How many Ornithopters does it take to kill a dragon?
Bolas: you fool, Ornithopters have no power!
Urza: That are fleeing from a Cylex Blast, Temporal planeshift, multi dimension fuckup I do regularly on a tuesday?
For the spooky season how about Baron Sengir vs Edgar Markov? 🦇
That's a good one
I want Bolas to have children I want to see son/daughter would backstab and even be the greater threat the the gatewatch. I want his son/daughter to learn from their mistakes because I would like him to come back but I feel like it's time he has an offer spring to follow his footstep.
Well, one is a selfish, manipulative, careless, eugenicist and one is a big ass Dragon who even post mending was powerful enough to destroy worlds. Yeah Urza is gonna get smoked every plot he ever had failed or if it succeeded it was entirely in spite of him
You should do something similar to but as a roast of tibalt hahaha
If Uraz had a reason to he can kill anything
Thank you Mr. Smith. You're free from the Matrix and taking over the multiverse.
So Urza is like the magic multiverse's version of Batman with cascading contingency plans within plans. I wonder who would win between Batman and Urza. 🤔
Those two do have a lot in common. Mostly they're the biggest jerks in the Multiverse 😁.
My immediate suggestions:
Volrath or Gerrard vs any new legendary characters.
And Sorin vs Crovax
Sure, Bolas always loses because of his arrogance, but surely that's because thats the only way he can possibly lose? Over 30,000 years and eventually you're gonna get overconfident once or twice. Losing less than once every 5,000 years isnt' too bad.
I do wonder who'd win tho, Urza or Ugin. Ugin seems like he'd be a better long-term planner than Bolas.
Ugin's definitely craftier.
Whoever wins the plane and who inhabitants it loses hard!!!!. How about urza taking on the eldrazei?
Ugin would probably step in at that point, offering Urza the same plan he offered Nahiri and Sorin
@@The_Loreseeker True but was ugin even aware of urza during his 4000 years of him being alive. Because urza like jace would most likely want destroy seeing as like phyrexia they are too dangerous to live. And just jace, I can see him going bat shit insane if tries fight him on his own let alone withstand being in there presence
i would like to see bolas vs Elesh norn
Good video, how about the Phyrexian Vs Eldrazi? You can probably break it down between Old Phyrexia and New Phyrexia, see which is stronger.
Chance are we will get something like this in future sets so might as well get it done early so when it does happen you have a video ready for people searching for it.
Another suggestion to add to the list!
Yes I second this idea.
Urza was a pre-mending planeswalker. I think he would have the upper hand on nicobolus. Even though nicobolus would probably have schemes within schemes within schemes to prevent it
Bolas was also, once upon a time, a pre-mending walker.
Urza would just blow up multiple planes
True true, but how would this help against Bolas?
I think that is a fair assessment. I would have disagreed about scenario A if I hadnt recently learned of Urza's defeat in the Phyrexian arena.
I need to know this. Who would win: Sorin or Karn? Will The Silver Golem come down with a sudden and fatal case of being-in-the-way-of-a-millennia-old-vampire?
So it's basically like Superman vs Batman.
Random encounter goes to Bolas
With prep time Urza has a plan with back up plans A-Z with multiple backups to each.
I mean if it was someone like Urza and his mad lad plans winning the day, I wouldn’t have been so upset with the shit writing that got Bolas defeated in War of the Spark.
If someone as intelligent and dangerous as Bolas is going to loose the big war/fight, have it be from someone believable of pulling that off! 🤣
Mishra vs tezzeret
Between Lilianna, Elspeth and Chandra who is the more powerful female planeswalker and why!!!
Elspeth - she was already the strongest of the New Walkers before she got an angelic upgrade.
@@The_Loreseeker Thank you, big Elspeth fan here and I was hoping you can make a story about her and also can she beat Gideon Jura in a fight!!!
@@leoregulus5842 most Magic characters these days could beat Gideon.
@@The_Loreseeker OK, I though Gideon was indestructible that nothing in combat cant touch him!!!
@@leoregulus5842 He can be, temporarily, but it's not perfect. I recommend reading the Battle for Zendikar/Oath of the Gatewatch story for more details.
Wow. could not disagree more. Urza was no stranger to planeswalker duels, even winning some early on purely on the basis that he was so powerful as compared to other planeswalkers. We can't assume that urza simply be more powerful than bolas so lets assume they were relatively equal in terms of arcane power. Even the phyrexians learned that physical means of hunting urza never worked very well. It is much more likely that the fight would devolve into a pure battle of mental power as it did in Urza's fight against Gix. Hard to say who has the edge there. As written Bolas probably has the edge especially post-mending.
I might agree that Urza is a better long term planner, but Bolas has only ever had one strategy in these cases. He would turn his enemies' allies against them. So, it would depend heavily on how well Urza could keep his plans secret from Bolas. As written Bolas probably has the edge.
Urza has always been my favorite character and I've never liked Bolas, but I would probably give him an edge in both scenarios and not for the same reasons you did. I certainly think there are many ways Urza could win and easily but if i try to be fair to the character i don't like I think he is stronger in areas that oppose Urza well.
I like this way of looking at the possibility - Urza vs Bolas WOULD almost certainly come down to a battle of wills, but Urza has demonstrated (such as in his first attack against Phyrexia) that he's not exactly great in that regard.
@@The_Loreseeker agreed. I haven't read all the Bolas Lore, but I think in general there has been more written about Urza and his weaknesses and his loses that it is easier to imagine ways in which he might lose vs simply believing Bolas's arrogance would allow a more than competent opponent to get the better of him.
👍
Honestly I think that Bolas has a slight advantage, being not just a planeswalker but an Elder Dragon. Elder Dragons were some of the most powerful creatures in the multiverse, second only to the Eldrazi and The Ur-Dragon itself and were capable of taking on old-walkers( see Dakkon Blackblade vs Chromium and Piru).
While this is true, keep in mind that Dakkon was just a simple blacksmith originally where Urza was a prodigy artificer. Physcial fight, def agree, much like scenario A, but Bolas's plans came apart because Liliana grew a conscions and no longer was concerned about her own fate. Yes it was more complicated than that, but that was the start of his plans unraveling.
@@alyssazachariahswarat673 Fair Point, and on that last part I think Bolas' plan started to fail was when he took the Gem of Becoming and didn't think to use identify on it.
@@gydrah4244 also good point
Bolas losses to Mishra
Here a suggjestion battle domri vs lukka both planeswalkers who use big creatures
I can say with some certainty that Domri would lose handily to Lukka, a grown man twice his size who can control monsters.
@@The_Loreseeker true domri is a stubby teenager lol
I mean there has to be a reason why Bolas never bothered with Urza since they were both alive at the same time from the same plane of origin.
Bolas was actually killed not long after Urza started his bloodlines project - they likely just didn't have the opportunity to encounter one another.
a magnificient video, still dissapointed to know that nicol bolas ended as a 1/1 flying token that probably is dead due to a bad corporative choice, but taking away that, all the scenarios are pretty well exectued, even they would be pretty awesome to see