i remember i once told my teacher about minecraft EDU and he was interested in it and did a look through it himself, and long story short he became the head of tech for the district and rolled out minecraft EDU to every elementary school just because of my suggestion
US Schools : Games are popular, let's use this. Also schools : *creates a buggy flash game that involves doing math problems in quick succession as its core and only mechanic and assigns it to students as an "optional extra study" alongside regular math homework* Students: *work on other homework instead of playing the game* Schools: You see! Video games will never work for education! The real Problem is that students are lazy and hate to learn!
so true, the real problem is that the current, frankly HORRIBLE model of education game is just a paper test, but with often badly made images and extremely buggy code that is EVEN MORE RESTRICTIVE
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Syed Monzareen Than she already is wrong, because there are many educational games out there and some of them for almost 30 years already. Video Games can educate pretty well. During my Design school, we have made it essential to play Art oriented games and muscial games to learn from its weight on humans perspectives and perception :3
I'm actually surprised that these guys did not bring up minecraft as it is one of the games doing it absolutely amazingly. The whole underlying principles that govern redstone can be applied to digital electronics. As an engineer myself, all of the major electronic components required to make things like calculators and any of the other crazy devices the community makes are there. The same exact logic in the game can be used to make these devices in real life. The concept of redstone circuits is not shoved down kids throats. at first they can have fun with the core of the game and build stuff. But once they start to see what else they can do with the mechanics, they will slowly start to make simple switches, like a plate to open a door or press a button to open xyz. They can discover it themselves, which is huge, and inspires that much needed curiosity. And to be honest, everything you can do with redstone in the game is pretty neat! Once they get the simple mechanics down, there is a absolutely gigantic amount of community designs available for them to copy, understand and learn from. These designs may also inspire them to make their own tweaks and add new features! The process can keep on continuing and make these kids surprisingly literate in Boolean logic And lastly, these redstone systems have real game effects that affect the state of play. If you design a circuit, it will most likely to make something kickass in your house, not as a lesson. This is huge. It means that their curiosity drives them to wonder what is possible with the redstone system in the game and will actively make them seek out the tools to make their concepts into reality. I know it's only for a very narrow subject, but I feel that it was implemented flawlessly. The game is based on the concept of building things, so adding the whole digital logic system adds both depth and educational value to the game with what you can create. I personally do not play it myself, I've only dicked around for a few hours, but I am so glad that it has found its way into the limelight.
+Brad Merkley [WARNING: HUGE TANGENT THAT ONLY RELATES TO YOUR COMMENT IN TERMS OF MINECRAFT WHOOPS] I can also say personally that in my experience just building things in general works on problem solving skills! Especially in multiplayer where you have other people who need you. My minecraft experience when i was about twelve or thirteen a good five or six years ago was that when I was playing multiplayer I wanted to be with people but away from them. As such I had a lot more land to work with. I was discovering new things in my cave that I was converting to my home as my friends were building incredible things! This worked out perfectly because (due to the money system implemented by a plugin) they could either A) stop their project and go get the resources they needed to finish what they were doing, B) Go to town and sell things so they could buy the items they needed, or C) Simply ask me if I had any that I wasn't using (which was tons since I wasn't building more than carving out my little home in a cliff face) or asking me to get something since I didn't have any clear goal in mind unlike them. You can see how they frequently went with C. As such I had a lot of tasks ahead of me... such as when my friend wanted a double chest full of 64 stacks of logs. I didn't have any forests nearby that I was willing to demolish so I had a problem I had to figure out. I could either tell my friend i couldn't do it and disappoint them, or I could take on the challenge. Now two double chests is about 6,912 blocks when filled with items that stack to 64. This was a real pain in the ass because thats a lot of trees. So I figured out a system through trial and error that worked. Huzzah! Unfortunately from HERE I had another problem. Sometimes oak trees spawn to large sizes that are immensely annoying to cut down so I had to figure out a system from there. In the end I had a pretty awesome tree farm, the satisfaction of figuring it out, and overall a great time. I learned some great problem solving skills from that server, and I had the reward of helping others through doing things that I liked. It gave a sense of purpose and overall achievement. what i'm saying is please get kids to play minecraft, they'll accomplish something ;)
Brad Merkley It is a good point, just the video was more about how card games should be implenented into schools, to best use their ability to teach- not so much hiw the games should be made.
The only problem is that logic gates and triggers is a subject of late high school/university degree, which puts minecraft in a weird limbo where kids either too young to get something from it or too old to play well-known game. And minecraft can be replaced with physical constructors because it doesn't bring anything new to understanding concept of EE, its just an abstraction.
That's actually a really good point. It shows where such a system can fall short in it's implementation if anything I guess. Plus it's not like the game goes out of it's way to teach logic anyway
Age of Empires, Europa Universalis, Crusader Kings and ~Sid Meier's Civilization all great games teaching about history. Age of empires was in fact the first game that got me interested in history, from a very young age.
When I was younger the majority of my knowledge of history came from Rome Total War, which I think actually gave me a better picture of the world during Roman times than any history lesson I've ever had.
Yeah the total war series was really good.. I think the first one i tried was Shogun Total War, which i think gave me some good insights into Japan's culture and history.
This sorta stuff reminds me of how some teachers are using modded Minecraft to teach kids about math, geography, science, art... you can teach pretty much anything elementary grade level on Minecraft, in a way that lets them explore for themselves. And they reward them for good behavior and paying attention by letting them play on their own afterward. I personally love this concept, and hope that more open-world/sandbox can be used in this way.
In grade 6 my year had a unit where we were learning about different government types. And since my teacher was a gamer.he recommend Minecraft. The IB curriculum is about kids teaching themselves so the other teachers agreed. Each class had an island and we all chose our leaders and government types. There might have been a few wars and burning of villages that I might have done (I was the head spy (I'm truly not kidding)) but it was definitely one of my favorite school experiences.
What our tech teachers do for kids is direct them to different educational game websites full of flash games that teach you. Teachers tell kids "Get to level 10 in any field in FreeRice.com", and even though it was all the same sort of test-answering stuff, people got more engaged. There were levels to gain, so kids would compete. They would go further than the teacher told them to because GOSH DARNIT McKenzie got to level 15 in Spanish so I've gotta get to 16! Or, kids would be told to go to a certain website and play a game from the Math tab. Kids got to choose, kids got competitive in it, and without even trying to, kids began learning.
When I was in a public school is special aid, (Or something like that) the last few months, I had to only play on this ONE website (I think there was two websites but my memory is rather bad) and play these 20 or so games and couldn't go to any other website. I wanted to play Webkinz or Neopets, my escapes at the time. BUT NOPE. Play the same fucking games until the end of school. I think if I was still at that school, I would STILL be playing those games made for 1 and 2 graders. I knew that stuff at that time but forced myself to play them.
my biggest problem with educational games is that they down right suck, not just graphically but also how they play is just beyond god awful. especially the games forced on you in schools (at least where i come from). One of the main problems i see with this is that they are all games that lack any action what so ever. I have even had a teacher tell me that War Thunder (Gaijin Entertainment) is a terrible game because "you 'kill' people in it". I have also had teachers and staff tell me that the units in Rome Total War "look nothing like what they would in real life and there for are falsely based and teach you how to kill". and here in-lies the big problem for me, schools only focus on what the games look like (like game reviewers) rather then what it actually helps you learn and what it plays like and how that helps teach you. For example War Thunder looks on the surface like a WW2 PVP flight sim, which it is, however it also teaches you how to read a map and asses a given situation while also teaching hand-eye-coordination. Now going back to Rome TW, that game can teach you 5 things, the first is history. This is shown by not only the unit cards and how they look and behave on the field but also the monuments, character names, and city names and locations. Second is that once again it teaches you how to read a map and asses a given situation both on a scale of about a kilometer or so, and on a "global" scale. Third is how to bargain, the diplomacy feature in Rome TW is a great feature because it teaches people bargaining, which is very useful in the real world. Fourth is economics and how to make a budget, the building and requirement options in the game plus the limited amount of money you get forces you to decide how best to spend your money. Fifth and final it teaches you how to solve problems, for example on the battle field you are confronted with several elite units and yours are not so much, do you charge head long, run, or find a way around their advantage? Honestly i know that anything i say will be ignored because the people who run my schools are politically and ideologically driven and that anything i say will probably get the same treatment as a defector from the soviet union so really there's no point as far as i see it.
BlackSkullHeart i beg to differ, because yes you can actually fail in games, for example in rome total war if you dont complete the objectives in time or run out of money you loose the game, also with a manufacturing job or a job that requires you to fly an aircraft or drive a vehicle hand-eye coordination is extremely important
julius c I completely agree with you. And some of those teachers that disagreed with you about the benefits of games do realize the bigger picture that playing games provide; maybe they have been too brainwashed by the status quo and think that the status quo way is best, they probably don't play games themselves and thus don't know, OR they are just stupid!
This is crazy. I literally just made a video on education saying very similar things, that to get the best learning we need environments where students are motivated by things they care about and are challenged to explore them. So glad I found this mini series on education. I need more!
This is an interesting subject for me because I don't go to school. I'm homeschooled because my mom doesn't like the school system. And since I went to school for two or so years, I'm inclined to agree. Another reason for us homeschooling is because half the members of our family, me and mom included, have special needs (look it up I can't explain properly). It basically means we have a hard time operating in society. School especially. We have the Thomas Jefferson Education model (again look it up).
I also hate how some "innovative" schools just force kids to "play" a super boring word game with cheesy transition animations. Games without visible goals to the student just don't work. I forgot the name of the game it was, but I played a game that had potato-head looking people in it for puzzles. If anyone knows what I'm talking about, tell me ASAP, I miss that game! At the beginning, you create like 10 of these creatures, they can have 1 or 2 eyes, or no eyes at all, different colored noses, feet, or a spring, or a propeller. It was awesome. I also played a math game that was based in a horror setting, a house or something, where you had to complete tasks to get out, and failure lead to falling down a chute or a pit that set you back, assuming you didn't learn the skills you did when you passed the previous level. Again, if anyone can remember which games I'm talking about, I'd really appreciate it!
omg yes! Thanks so much! I've been trying to remember that name forever! The second game I mentioned looked similar to how JumpStart Second Grade looked like, but was in a horror-house setting.
It's probably something from The Learning Company. The first one (probably Zoombinis) is by them, and the second sounds like something out of a ClueFinders game, or even the Reader Rabbit franchise (that had some surprisingly creepy settings...) Do you remember much about the horror setting's theme? E.g. classic Halloween, Alien horror, time travel, cartoony like Scooby-Doo, etc.?
Watching this video and looking at my country (Mexico) is depressing. Only 1 out of every 30 teachers care about their students learning. Most of them are focused just on their paychecks. And when the (frequently stupid) government does something they don't like, they stop teaching. It's disgusting, frustrating and awfully common these days. :(
there is also this trend about caring more about grades than about the value of the learned stuff in my country but heck i havent even watched the video yet maybe they talked about it
You should look at how they do it in the anime Baka to Test, i think its a good example. Not the specific concept, since that is way beyond our time, but just that they managed to get the students to WANT to learn
im 13, i go to school wit my skyrim guide book reading it out to myself when i have extra time, when i get home i know more about that quest or dungen. its fun
Ever since Kindergarten, I always had the idea that video games can help us learn more. I mean teaching can put people to sleep, to anger, or to not want to learn. I remember trying this in third grade, and was a huge success. Video games should be included into lots of schools. Especially math.
One of my favorite examples of education via games is Kerbal Space Program, which I am a huge fan of. It teaches orbital mechanics by letting players experiment rather then making them memorize a bunch of facts and equations. It's great because it's fun and engaging, I have spent many lectures in school thinking about how I am going to send a manned mission to another planet or save a seemingly hopeless mission. It does it's job brilliantly and even though I was quite familiar with orbital mechanics before I got that game I have learned a few things.
It's quite unrealistic but you're not wrong. Im a huge fan myself, with over 1100 hrs played. I started around 2015-2017(I sort of forgot when). I know I started right after the release of 1.1.2 and boy would it be nostalgic to all the way back.
When I was a kid we'd actively seek out the computers with the games on them - even if they were more educational games (Oregon Trail, Amazon Trail, Number Munchers, Math Blaster, Mavis Beacon, Gizmo and Gadgets, etc), because they were still fun and it wasn't necessarily forced down our throats. Sure, we had maybe an hour of computer lab once a week or twice a month, and they'd go "You can do this game," but even then it wasn't overbearing or awful, it was like recess. It was fun. We'd look forward to it. But if we start using games too much, a lot of that appeal might disappear, much like how many kids don't like reading because of all the forced reading we were put through, or start hating exercise because we were forced into doing 30 minutes of laps in PE rather than freely running around and playing our own way like we did in recess. I dunno.
I think another problem is that the makers of the educational games don't work the lessons into the gameplay, just the text, or they just make a liniar question and answer type of game.
Yes! I have been saying this for so long! This seems to be especially a post-2000s problem. If we look at Amazon Trail or Oregon Trail, those were some good, classic educational games. So was Freddy Fish for that matter, though still a bit on the linear side. Still, wayy better than the "drilling with animations" type games we have flooding the market right now. A lot of games are out there now that are educational in nature, but when discussing the issue with colleagues they pretty much juxtaposed fun and learning in games. *This*, more than anything, I think is why educational games tend to fail. They are designed with a defeatist mindset, that somehow if it is too fun they can't learn. Games like RTW, KSP, WarThunder, and so many others have educational value yet are overlooked. I think the exception being Mad Libs, English teachers seem to understand the value of having content knowledge be a prerequisite for making the game playable.
***** On the math point, I think the flash game "Spitfire 1940" is a great example. It takes 4 factory workers to produce 1 Spitfire in a turn. You have so many recruits to divide between pilots and factory workers for the next round. Every pilot without an aircraft is a pilot wasted. Every Spitfire without a pilot is a Spitfire wasted. Basic arithmetic, but it is mixed with history as well as basic deductive reasoning (your intelligence reports are typically incomplete, though by deductive reasoning you can sometimes figure out what the regions to be attacked are, since no region will be attacked by more than 1 wave). Additionally, you can figure out the minimum and maximum amount of damage that can be reconstructed by construction workers, as well as the minimum and maximum number of workers that will be recruited by your recruiters, giving you an idea of what you have to work with. I suggest you give it a try. It may not be the greatest game out there, but it would be more than a step up from the "educational" games we have on the market.
Perhaps we could use a system like hearthstone or another turn based card game, and you would have to figure out equations in order to find the health and/or damage of what you are attacking with. I think that would be an interesting take on math education
Michael Beebe "...and you would have to figure out equations in order to find the health and/or damage of what you are attacking with." Aand there's where I beg to differ. Strongly. Educational games like Oregon Trail and certain other late 80s early 90s games were valuable because they taught kids things in a manner that was natural. Games attempt as much as possible to avoid feeling artificial. Note, for example, that quicktime events are kept to a bare minimum, and when they are used it generally makes sense with the situation. I suspect that you work in education, but considering that you follow this channel I hesitate to assume that you don't play many videogames. If either is untrue, let me know because I will try to tailor the rest of my explanation as much to a teacher's perspective as possible. I know this is a bit of an odd analogy, but when it comes to classroom management teachers are taught to use logical consequences as much as possible and to focus on rewards rather than punishments (e.g. timeout/suspension). Entertainment is similar in a way. This is mentioned in another video, but you try to keep as much of the game as possible intrinsically rewarding. Having students solve a formula to advance is extrinsically, artificially rewarding, the only reason that they do it is to get to the next part. I highly recommend looking at the browser-based flash game "Spitfire 1940." Guesswork is possible, but it will yield worse results. In an attempt to be half-good at it, estimation skills at a minimum are built. Additionally, it is not exclusively used to teach math. This is another huge advantage of videogames: you can tackle multiple content areas at once. In Oregon Trail, you learn history in regards to events and places common on the trail which covers history, but you also have to budget your resources, a soft skill tied in with math that will greatly help students in life. The reason that I recommend that specific flash game I listed above, but let me reiterate some of it: Players learn math because they need the correct balance of pilots and aircraft (multiplication, a certain number of factory workers pump out one aircraft, either a Hurricane or a Spitfire). It encourages kids to study the Battle of Britain, albeit starting with the trivial details (intelligence reports are provided describing the planes simply as "Heinkels," "Messerschmidts," or "Dorniers." The student will not immediately recognize which ones are the fighters and which are the bombers. This will require some research on their part, and in the process they will likely come across far more valuable information about WWII. Finally, depending on how many agents the player has, some parts of the intelligence reports will be missing. When they realize that no region is struck by two waves at the same time, this ushers in deductive reasoning skills, as sometimes a report will say "location X or Y." If one report says "X or Y," and another report says "Y or Z," the player can assume that either X or Z must be struck. If yet a third report states that Z will be struck, then it can be determined that X must be struck as well, since both waves will not go for Z. Teachers are expected to teach students how to learn, and deductive reasoning is a huge part of that puzzle. Most importantly: All of these academic skills are used contextually. They are not simply drills awkwardly tacked on to a game that would have been good on its own. Worse, too often we have games where if you take away the drilling, what you have left is no more then an animation. Make sure that when you design a videogame, all academic skills are used contexually. edit: one point I forgot to mention, you would have to clarify to students that during the Battle of Britain, the German aircraft did not have enough fuel to attack any region other than the SE, such as London.
101jir I'm not a teacher or anything. In fact I'm still in high school and play a lot of Rouge likes and those sort of games, I just thought it would be an interesting concept and it would be a decent alternative if you had to choose between that kind of game and regular studies.
When I was younger, I used to play a series of games called "Cluefinders", at least that's what I think they were called. They featured cohesive plots, puzzles, math problems, statistics, geography, and observational skills to advance in the games. I remember them because they were some of the first games I played and they took themselves seriously (Think Indiana Jones for the general theme). After them, I discovered Age of Empires which sparked an enduring interest in history, strategy, and more or less taught me mathematics (Target HP / [ranged damage - ballistic armor] = number of shots to kill it excluding misses, reverse the equation and compare for odds of winning the battle). In any event, what I'm trying to say is: The "educational" component cannot be the primary gameplay. A game for teaching history should include a playspace that is relatively close to the events being portrayed, and benefits in-game for paying attention to the optional historical blurbs in some kind of in-game codex. A game for teaching math should never have "Solve 5+ (4x2)= To open the drawbridge." Instead, that game should bury the math it is trying to teach within the underlying mechanics and then make understanding those mechanics essential to getting the most out of the game.
Here is a possible and simple solution so this problem. English class. Don't change books to video games or movies but instead give the class an option. Kids who want books can do A, Kids that want to do movies can do B, and kids that want to do video games can do C. For example the book kids can analyze The Great Gatsby. The kids for the movies can look into the hardships that the soldiers go through in saving private Ryan or whatever is appropriate. The kids for the Games can go in-depth based the games they want like RPG's, visual novels, or delve into that FPS that they like. While they would be heavily regulated within choice like if you go RPG you might get Persona or fallout while if you go FPS you might get Wolfenstein the New order or Call of Duty MW1. I don't think this will just make english more interesting to a wider audience of students but get it out of its mediocrity that it has been in. Not only would it bring gaming into schools but it could be used for teaching. Another thing that they could do is bring it into Phys ed class for reactions. Why not sit down to play Street fighter V or Rainbow Six Siege and then at the end of the week see how much improvement your cognitive skills and reflexes have gone up. While is it as healthy as say a good game of soccer no but it is still physical education. These are just my solution to getting games into school but also fixing how english class could work for people who think reading is just bland and boring as I do because we all know how much we really wanted to read a Tale of Two Cities or The Merchant of Venice. But it would also expand on phys ed for some of those students who don't like the unit that they are doing in Gym like volleyball or tennis.
+Raging karma Although I agree with your basic ideas, I don't thin that giving children the choice of subject is a practical solution. For one, I'm not personally certain if there are many children that would actively choose to study books when there is the choice to study video games. Secondly, there is also the problem that children could be pressured into choosing video games, or even picked on for choosing books as their subject. Finally, there is the problem of logistics, bearing in mind I'm writing this with English schools in mind, there just aren't the resources following this to develop three different curriculums for books, movies and video games and there definitely aren't the resources for the teachers to be able to supply this. I do this that english is in somewhat of a mediocrity, but I'm not certain that a change of media is what is necessary to bring it out of this. In fact, from a personal view, I think that encouraging children to read if a very positive thing. Again, for the sake of this being posted on the internet, I must reiterate that this is a lot of my own opinion (and also based on english schools), but I'd also like to mention that I'm currently doing a dissertation on whether video games can be integrated into education, so it's a subject that I'm very curious about and welcome any further disucssion!
That said, encouraging children to write about their gaming experience? Yeah, that's useful in English class. Gaming gives us lots of stories we like to tell our friends -- that's half the fun of gaming in fact. Teaching students to express those stories in an intelligent and literate way is a very good thing. To be honest the ability to construct a functioning paragraph is more important to Enlgish profiiciency than what that paragraph is about. So if kids have gaming experiences they want to write about -- a close shave in an FPS, a mechanic they want to complain about in a favorite video game (SPG's in World of Tanks, the so-called Noob Tube, whatever), just discourage them from using uncivil language in the write-up and you're golden.
+Raging Karma - as much as that's a wonderful idea, the English class one wouldn't work at all probably. Part of the reason English teaching is a mediocrity is because comprehension is incredibly difficult to quantify - if you want a decent grade, welp, you'd better stick to something the teacher's analyzed before so they have some basis of understanding as to whether or not you're talking out your behind. One can brilliantly analyze an incredible book, but if it is utterly obscure to teacher they're unlikely to give more than passing grade. Games often require more effort to go through than a book, particularly for the stuffy types that seem to end up as english teachers, so it's just unreasonable. Lovely idea though.
A while ago I had a theory for a home studying app that would replace the need for assigned grindy learning. Instead of being assigned 40 math problems or a bunch of chem problems, this app could automatically generate problems in your current topic, and as you did them, you would gain XP in that subject and very slowly gain overall XP. This way, a teacher would not even need to assign that type of learning, because the lure of leveling up and the rewards that come with it would keep us coming back. And once you get really, really good at a topic, you can finish it faster and earn more XP, so mastering a skill would be vital.
I've had computers around almost as long as I've been educated, and now I'm in college. I remember, in rare occasions, having the option to play "edutainment" games, namely JumpStart and Carmen Sandiago, but Humongous Entertainment counts in there too. In elementary school, this worked great twofold: I got to explore and problem solve and develop skills that felt autonomous, and I developed a love for games and exploration. Now I find the internet is a treasure trove for gaming that applies to my education. This semester, my math course was based around mostly practical skills-based math, like interest rates and loans, parts of groups and probability, etc. This class was easy for me because, in part, I look for problem solving games. Lots of my classmates who struggled don't play games at all, which I learned from asking around a bit while I tutored. Maybe the question isn't integrating games in the classroom, but instead two steps: 1) destigmatization of games as simply a playtime thing, that can't be serious so people aren't so culturally against the gamer mentality, and 2) open dialogues that explore curriculum subjects whole focusing on a gaming subject. Some examples would be discussing what different characters fall into what motifs and archetypes in an RPG for an English class to tie against the purpose of characters in a book, like characters in 1984, facing a suppressive government, versus characters in final fantasy or other games for literature analysis. Mario physics applied to a physics class, or Mario Maker used to represent those physics. One that interests me is discussions on who chose what paths in Fallout. Why did some students choose to blaze a path forward with force, while others chose to sneak around, or communicate to settle conflicts. We need to make it okay to play games and then open ourselves up to discussing the implications of those games in relationship to our real world and our school curriculum.
+Nine_Tails137 and modern studies are concluding the fact that sitting too close to a monitor ruins your eyesight is from the bygone era of CRT's as it has never been observed to happen with a LCD or any other panel
NoESanity i meant there was like some other basis, with CRT's it was true from the radiation they emitted (no, not like nuclear bomb radiation that makes you grow a third testicle, i mean like the type that falls apart after about a foot from the source) and well, the parenthesis kinda explain it
guys, i am doing a research titled gaming in education and i just watched this video. if there are credible sites that i can use to expand my research please tell me. thanks.
The problem with learning via curiosity is that those will voluntarily choose subjects that peak one's interests. I want to be an engineer, but I am required to do classes on history and literature/fine arts. I have no interest in either of these, especially literature!!! So creating a game that will make me want to learn these will be extremely difficult, especially if I know the game is a literature-learning game.
i know exactly how you feel geez i hate language arts class (i find this to be the most useless class, i really cant express how much i hate it). maybe a heavily story based game? where the story is so interesting you'd want to learn every detail. or something like that
Power Max Have you ever seen an episode of "Engineering an Empire"? They are pretty informative on the cultural aspects of civilizations, while keeping in the context of engineering for the ancient world.
I don't know how that works in the US school system, but here in the Netherlands, the subjects you have no interest in but are manadory are usually needed as common knowledge.
appelpower1 Yeah, in England only English/maths/science/ICT (and in some schools a modern foreign language) are compulsory core subjects after the age of 13, and everything else you do should theoretically be something your interested in. It doesn't always work that way, since you still have to pick four other subjects and you might only like two of the options, but you don't have to continue with absolutely everything.
Recently, in my Texas history class, we spent a week watching the movie, "The Alamo". Looking at this, imagine if while you were studying speed and velocity in science, you spent a week play Portal/Portal 2. Maybe for English, you'd play The Stanley Parable to learn about writing narratives. It's a great idea I'd think, and I don't see why we shouldn't do it, I mean, we can't really watch anything that's higher than G without parental consent, and said movie has tad bit of swearing in it, and so does portal, so why not ask parents if it's okay to play Portal in class?
Michelle Johnson well that and they arnt games that require the student to do any kind of calculus to solve the issue at hand making their aplyabilty limited for classroom use of inspiration of learning. however in my eyes, if there was one game that could be used to teach physics and inspire kids to independently learn it its ksp, imagine how much you could teach if you got a class divided into teams with the first one to work out the delta v capacity of a craft or another stat being aloud to fly the craft or get some kind of external reward. you would literally be incentiviseing rocket science in a friendly and engaging way.
Pardon me if this has already been said; It seems to me like one possible answer that could go a long way to alleviating the problem of forcing games on students would be to offer them as a voluntary alternative to any other learning technique being used in the classroom; you don't -have- to play this game, but if you'd rather do it than drill the other way, you can. Admittedly, this probably isn't an optimal solution, but it would probably make a lot of kids happier to pic the game just knowing it was a choice they made, even if the only provided alternative was just something they like less.
This would also allow the non-game portion of the classroom to focus more on one-on-one attention and getting past hurdles in understanding; places where drilling and practice breaks down because something just doesn't make sense to the student yet. Which is also like Khan Academy in its way, but doesn't have to be unique to their system.
i (at this moment 13 years old), am developing a game for education, with help of teachers for the theory. but also with help of other kids to have their opinion and perspective on what works and doesnt to make them learn with it and let them have fun learning with it.
***** Inserting literature is actually simpler than it seems. EC has already talked about "For whom the bell tolls", all the game needed to connect to that classic piece of literature was for one character to ask "What do you mean?" Also, games and literature can be placed alongside one another. The Hero's Journey (already tought in my school using Star Wars) applies to every great story from Shakespear to Zelda to even lesser comidies such as Happy Gilmore. Character development, theme, and symbolysim are everywhere in games, they just need to be pointed out. (By the way, about the whole saltpeter+ash+sulfer=gunpowder thing: a few simple science-y paragraphs turns Minecraft into Everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-geology/electricity/horticulture/metalurgy/woodworking/ chemistry/construction. Bingo.)
I just made a game a few months ago that teaches the basics of game development. I'll admit, its not perfect(it was my first ever game as an Indie), but it introduces real lines of code while you play and at the end of it you can watch some videos on my channel to actually make your first game. If you get a chance, check out "Codezle" on iPhone and Android, its free and I'd love to know what you think!
Even just having games that take place in a historically accurate setting, like Red Dead Redemption can do a lot to spark that initial interest. Then, when you go back to that history textbook, it almost feels like you're reading the Codex in Mass Effect, something you explore out of a genuine interest, not just because you have to. Imagine if you were forced to memorise the codex in ME without playing the game and then had to take an exam on it. Wouldn't be a very enjoyable to learn then.
Agreed. The first example that came to my mind were Civilization scenarios. They are engaging, fairly historically acurate, have a nicely built-in encyclopedia with all the historical and mechanical facts (which also teaches children how to research) and there are ones for almost all of mankind's history's epoches from the classical to the modern era.
3:16 On that day mankind received a grim reminder: we lived in fear of the Education Games and were disgraced to live in these cages we called schools.
Maybe we're looking in the wrong direction. In kindergarten, it's very different to school. The kids might wake up at a certain hour and go to a place the must go, but most of the kids want to. What's the different between kindergarten, first grade, and higher classes? The difference is that in school, everyone is sitting a class doing a very specific thing, while in kindergarten they are free to do whatever they want. There are many games, and many people to play, and there is also someone to be there for them! This is almost exactly what you have shown in the video - school needs to be more like kindergarten, but not exactly, because nobody is gong to stay in kindergarten forever. but think about it.
I really like this episode for bringing up a lot of different things about games in education. In my school, at 6th grade you have to do Xtra math multiplication, then division (to master basic math facts), then fraction nation (which treats you like a little kid), and then Khan Academy which all my friends love because they say they are actually learning stuff, rather then talking about stuff we already know about adding tiny bits and pieces onto it.
+SoniX Treme Yeah, Khan Academy is amazing! I use it for biology. Another good program (if you're looking for just traditional school) is Teaching Textbooks for math. They actually explain everything and why it is true, and you aren't confused. Also, it's self-grading and has explanations for each problem you get wrong, which is very useful.
bad example of this is moby max most kids find workarounds to doing work like "if put up a new tab with a game on it you can play it as long as you want if you switch of the tab when the teacher comes by" or "for all the open ended questions you can put any thing in and still get 100% even if you type cuss words" plus your forced to do it. the only real drive is OMG U GOT LIKE 55 SWEEPSTAKES TICKETS YOUR SOOOO GONNA WIN AND GET THE PRIZE HOW DID YOU EVEN GET THAT MANY and then do nothing to try and get there own plus there is always the "Oh me? ya im doing my work" when all your actuly doing is pulling up random graphs you cant even read much less understand .there is all these "moby max worked great in my class!" quotes on the home page but 1 there is only like 3 of them 2 do you ACTUALLY think there gonna put any "My class learnd nothing this is terible!" quotes up there? all in all I think moby max is TERRIBLE for this kind of education and if you don't believe me try it for yourself. www.mobymax.com/
TLDR: having the feeling of choosing what you do makes that thing (game or not) a lot more powerful. And it's doable in a classroom setting. Quite interestingly, This rule of "you can't force someone to play a video game and assume the student will learn by it" applies to pretty much anything. How many kids think they don't like reading because they are forced to read books they don't want to read? I recently was talking with a friend about the fact that I have the feeling of most of my knowledge (at least the things I remember the most) comes from things *I* decided to watch or read. I got to love reading thanks to a teacher I had. She would not make us read a particular book. She just made a "reading corner" in the classroom. With giant pillows and all. And shelves with lots of books. We could go to the reading corner if we finished our exercises, at pauses if we did not feel like going outside, or even during the lunch hour. We could also borrow books and take them home. The only rule was: You have to read a book a month; and fill a card with title, author, quick summary, and why you liked it or not. Guess what? IT WORKED. Because in all the books available you would eventually find something that you enjoyed. And then another, and another. Also: - Most of the things I learned as a kid was by watching documentaries on DVDs my father bought me. (those were french shows made to simplify science - I think an American equivalent would be "Bill Nye the science guy"). He didn't make me watch this. He just offered me a DVD one day, and then I liked it and asked for many more. I could watch them several times, during hours on weekends and vacation, as you watch a movie. And I learned without knowing it. - Most of the things I learned as a teenager and today was from UA-cam. Things I watch in my free time like this video because I want to, I like to. I think there is few important things going on here. The feeling of having a choice of what to do. Having the choice of when to do it. Being trusted. Not being pushed to do something or constantly being reminded you have to do it. And also make the activity attractive by every mean: the reading corner really was a place of soft and warm comfort. EDIT: Just realized a big strength of the reading corner was also that it was presented as a reward "if you finish you exercise earlier, you can go read" subtlety implies that reading is a reward
When I was in junior high, my PE class had just gotten enough funding to buy 2 DDR machines. So on fridays, they would pull them out, and we got a choice: you can play the game, or you can walk laps around the gym. I usually chose to play the game. But one thing that always bothered me was tangential to this choice. My class period for PE was shared with the special needs students. They wanted to play the game too. No big deal. Except they always had their choice removed. They got to play, but they never got to pick the song. It was always Girls Just Wanna Have Fun because it was the easiest song in the game. And they barely got to play. Anyone who has played DDR knows that if you get enough moves wrong the level ends. So to keep that from happening because their reaction times were slower, other students would stand on the sides and press the buttons for them so the level wouldn't end and they wouldnt feel sad. But it bothered me because this meant they could never improve because people wouldnt let them. End rant.
Maybe they could do something like how they use novels. Novels are meant for enjoyment, for entertainment, but they are used as a means to educate in school about character development and other story telling stuff. Maybe they could use episodic games in the same way where they discuss the episodes of the game in class. They could use games specifically designed for enjoyment, because even if they try to make a game fun. If it's only purpose is for education, chances are students aren't going to like it. Even if it would be fun to play. The fact that it is for education makes it uncool. That is just me rambling some thoughts out though :P
I made a list of PC games that can be used in the classroom. Most are available on Steam. www.gameskinny.com/ijj7k/pc-games-for-the-classroom While I was researching this, I was upset to learn that the original Typing of the Dead is not available anymore unless you purchase a used CD. We should petition Sega to put it on Steam.
see, i can totally relate here. there are things that i can do in games that i just don't do in real life. for example, here are a few anecdotes: -i love nuzlocking pokemon games. whenever i catch a new pokemon, i look it up and do some research. i see if its stats are good or just meh. i see what moves it learns when, and what level i should evolve it so that it has the most efficient movepool. -another thing that i do in nuzlockes is that i'll stubbornly train a weak pokemon because i know that it'll be really powerful once it evolves. i'll grind and grind and i know that for all this work, all this effort, one critical hit or unexpected super effective move could just throw it all away. even so, i still do it. i still train those weak pokemon until they might eventually be strong. researching topics to know more about them and optimizing my experience, doing something for only a long-term goal that might not amount to anything at all, these are things that i can do in games, but not in real life. i still can't quite figure out exactly why games just make this easier, but it just happens.
Thank you for giving me idea! Lately I have been planning to make a game to make my students get interested in economic sciences (I also am planning to use the data for my grad school dissertation). Wish me luck!
i have an idea for games. so the teachers make a game and secratly tell a few students that if they hang out in a poupular place near the school and play the game and tell anyone who asks them what there doing that there just playing a game they will get extra credit on a test or somthing do that and all of a suden this happens "hey what u doing bro?" "just playing a game you wanna try?" "sure! wow this is good where did you get this?" "on the app store i can download it to your phone if you want." "ok here" BOOM done and done
I self teach myself any and all the technological knowledge I need. College hasn't done a fantastic job of challenging me so I go out of my way to learn multiple programs and boost my computer worth. I wish games were implemented more as well. Feel like it could fuel that drive our education so desperately needs nowadays.
"That way the average intelligence goes up, increasing the productivity and economy of the nation, then using that money to fuel the next step." Yeah..... that's not how government works. Usually nothing ever gets done. I'm sort of torn, because on one hand, when governments are competent, we end up with the NSA. But on the other hand, stuff needs to get done.
Hey Extra Credits crew, what are the chances a subscriber could arrange a audio Skype chat with James, or otherwise arrange a correspondence to talk about the topic of education in gaming?
Perhaps with physics we could hid exponential, multiplication, addition within game mechanics. Exponential for example could be embodied by stuff like characters which once played start out weak, but gain strenght. Perhaps the whole game could be about your side =ing the other side whether it is NPC or player. Perhaps something about equation subtraction (x^2+4x+2) minus the equation (x^3+1) for a given x? Perhaps this game is just a never ending series of working off the same equations and modifying them. Could it while un-precounciously teaching them physics also be sorting through it and mathematics maybe using the game as an evolutionary computer to find new mathematical phenomena?!
+logan milliken With hearth stone and nearly all games they are turn based, but turn based does mess with equations at least in adding added complexity. If we use a turn based model in this anything done on the second turn (in a model like hearthstone) would instead of being just X with whatever other stuff comes with that 'character' or whatever it would be (x-1) within that characters function. Turn 3 would be (x-2)... et cetera. Of course there are numberous things we could do to move away from the hearthstone model (which I only reference out of addiction and some hope or dread that they might already be doing this), like make heroes and/or characters involunterable for so many turns or forever, make npc's "static" as in they don't have a choice of cards, but are a static equation, while you are the shifting element.
true, it looks great, however, the subtle and hidden educators and harvesters are going to be a thing soon. A massive thing and no one sees it coming. Well, hidden educational things may not make it out the door, they are pretty hypothetical, but harvesting the players' minds and computers incognito... massive.
Even while listening I though of ways they could use games in classes, like games set during historic periods to teach students of those periods. Games like Guitar Hero (swap the guitar with the coloured buttons for one with strings) to teacher students music, etc.
I can see games like Petz 5 being used to teach genetics, Harvest Moon agriculture and money management, Pokemon for math and some science (i.e. cause and effect, etc), Age of Empires or Fire Emblem for logic and strategic thinking, Final Fantasy or Kingdom Hearts for storytelling, Animal Crossing (kinda) finances, Etrian Odyssey for cartography, Minecraft for art, architecture, geography, alot actually. KOTOR could teach morals, and Okami for understanding other cultures. Wow, lots of educational stuff already in games, I mean, my little brother learned some geography from Minecraft already. He draws cross-sections of the world with the minecraft blocks and they are pretty close to what it's really like. And I actually got better at strategy after playing Fire Emblem Awakening for a week, as in I started to do better at board games and planning ahead.
There are a few strategy games that also involve some economical element, and city management. Such as 1701 or 1404 A.D. If you try out these games they will also teach you multitasking, you have to keep your settlement happy, as well as manage finances and trade. And if you want a bit of challenge and a historical niche with strategy involved the Total War games are great for that as well. Banished is a great relaxed environment, you just have to help your town grow and survive. No fighting, no wars to think about. Kinda like Sim city if you ever heard of it. For some geometry and angles WoT(MMO game) can help a bit in that area. And later on you can try to learn the more advanced calculations if you want to get really specific armor thickness with a certain angle, along with calculating shell effectiveness hitting those angles (I haven't done this yet :/[well I do a very rough calculations...]). There are tons of games out there that can teach you many things. And most games help teach you how to manage inventory, finances, and even how to work with others (just need to find the right games for that). Most MMO's can help you learn how to deal with people, as you are literally with people, doesn't matter if it is an act or not(most people tend to bring their real personality anyways).
Sweet, I either haven't played or haven't heard of the games you listed, so I'm glad you brought them up. Zoo Tycoon is also worth mentioning since it teaches you money management and how to keep customers happy.
Hello @Games in Education. Awesome episode. I'm glad to know that it is not just few of us who think the same way - that games can be medium for learning. That is what I'm trying to promote in my channel too. I'm still ongoing of making it better but that is part of the learning. I like that I learned from your video and will continue to support your channel. Thank you and more power to your team. =)
games could replace books in school actually... if there were appropriate games for every school subject ; ) learning might even be faster that way... but it'd have to be very good / creative and engaging games, interesting for everyone, that's the problem.
I think abot this subject lot more than I should expesaly since said time chould be used to up my history grade what about a game whare you take over the contenent with historical acurasy whold be a hells lot better than the flash cards in world cultures
I think that the best thing that games in education can do to deal with the issue of being forced to do them is simply to make the games optional. Assuming that the game is well made (cough, cough) then making it optional and offering some extra credit for playing it can act as a sort of placebo effect. If you don't make it mandatory, but still give the option, I think it could work out really well.
If you're driven by curiosity towards a goal, you will not be afraid to try different things and take risks, unlike if there's a punishment or a grade at stake if you fail. This allows for more flexibility, creativity, non-linear problem solving, making errors and correcting them on the fly. Then finally in the end, making progress and discovering new things. Students should be nudged towards their intrests in a more flexible educational system, not kicked around like in the current one.
Just because the school is smaller doesn't mean it's bad. I've gone to a privet school with about 130 students for six years. Currently I'm in a bigger public school with many more students. Both of the schools have their benefits. I t depends on the person and what their goals are.
Wow, thanks! It's nice to hear that. You can actually help this project by spreading a word. There's even a crowdfunding campaign on indiegogo now to raise the prize money for students, so the publicity is needed now.
I actually use StarCraft to teach artificial intelligence class at our university with great results - very much like you're describing (google 'SSCAI tournament' if you're curious).
Roblox got me interested in Game Design, Level Design, programming (Lua), and in advertising. However, it's very focused on creating, and VERY few people are interested in doing so.
I wish educational games weren't so cheesy (C'mon kids, we have to save the earth... WITH MATH!!!). Many "games" market themselves as a "fun" learning experience, but what they actually are is a worksheet with a cheesy plot. Like "type to learn", but games like "Oregon trail" were educational but fun, too.
This is AWESOME! I've been teaching for 4 years, programming and game design to 5 -10 year olds and you nailed it! Teachers and schools really need to come to grips with the idea that we are shifting away from lectures and towards experiences, reflections and projects.
Moral of this post? FINDING Math Blaster as a kid and playing it, because you like sci-fi: AWESOME. GIVEN Math Blaster as a kid and playing it, because your parents think it's gonna be educational: SUCKS B@//$
I read the comments from 2019 and yeah. Some "educational" games are absolutely unplayable. BUT implementing what you want the student to learn into a fun game that really sparks their curiosity and is not BS is amazing and would work. I'd love to get into rocket science or FTL travel and crazy things like that not because of school, but because of Kerbal Space Program(My personal favorite. I have 1100+ hours played) or Elite Dangerous. Civil engineering seems fun, interesting, and challenging at the same time because of Cities:Skyline(I like to call it Cities Skylines). Managing a massive transportation network seems interesting because of Transport Fever. I don't remember where I got my interest in Computers and cars from, but it was not from school. These(except that last one) are all great reasons to incorporate games. And the best part: They all have you do some complex logic problems or math problems to achieve a goal you want to achieve in game. Although there is a catch: all the games I mentioned are expensive(Kerbal Space Program is around 45 USD on steam when not on sale). Elite Dangerous costs around 20 USD, and Cities skylines cost around as much if not more. And that might be why their not getting implemented: cost.
The only game I ever played in school was one to learn to touch type. I actually enjoyed it but I didn't learn properly from it because although most of my classmates didn't really use computers and couldn't really type at all, I'd been typing out stuff on computers for years and had already developed my own style that I was faster at than touch-typing. I ended up cheating a lot on the time trials for the touch-typing software by using my method instead, but it did help to improve my speed a lot regardless because I was always trying to beat my score. Outside of school I played a *ton* of online educational flash games. Stuff like maps where you had to drag the right country name to the right place, or interactive quizzes. What's kind of interesting is that I played a lot of games aimed at students who were 15-16 when I was 6 or 7, and although I memorized all the right answers by trial and error I hadn't been introduced to most of the concepts in the questions in lessons. So I knew that the answer to one question would be "photosynthesis", but I had no idea what that was. Although I played that type of platformer/whatver-with-a-quiz-minigame-hidden-inside game voluntarily, I don't think I really learnt anything from them, whereas with games like the map game I still use that knowledge today.
ive been doing this with my own kiddos for years, completely by accident lol. You were right about the 3 things you were circling...I wonder if you've asked any parents about games in the home? Maybe our family is iunique but our boys have been playing games for years and they're only 7 and 9. It's actually a very natural process. Maybe you're thinking too hard haha. Ask some parents for observations, give a kid a game iMinecraft is amazing fort boys) and just....watch! You'll see. (:
They could have us play pokemon red/blue and explain to us how the game operates. Interesting computer science + simplification + video game = Fun and Learning!
i remember i once told my teacher about minecraft EDU and he was interested in it and did a look through it himself, and long story short he became the head of tech for the district and rolled out minecraft EDU to every elementary school just because of my suggestion
Justin Noker nice
You dont by chance have access to the .jar of minecraft EDU?
im tryin to get EVERY VERSION EVVAR
Can you do this to my teacher?????
*U r great*
: ) im gonna make one now.
US Schools : Games are popular, let's use this.
Also schools : *creates a buggy flash game that involves doing math problems in quick succession as its core and only mechanic and assigns it to students as an "optional extra study" alongside regular math homework*
Students: *work on other homework instead of playing the game*
Schools: You see! Video games will never work for education! The real
Problem is that students are lazy and hate to learn!
so true, the real problem is that the current, frankly HORRIBLE model of education game is just a paper test, but with often badly made images and extremely buggy code that is EVEN MORE RESTRICTIVE
hehehe
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My mom is under the unshakable belief that education will NEVER involve video games, and video games will NEVER involve education.
That's like saying "Medicine will never involve technology."
True dat
Alex Franzblau Watch what?
***** Oh. Thought there was supposed to be a link.
Syed Monzareen
Than she already is wrong, because there are many educational games out there and some of them for almost 30 years already.
Video Games can educate pretty well. During my Design school, we have made it essential to play Art oriented games and muscial games to learn from its weight on humans perspectives and perception :3
I'm actually surprised that these guys did not bring up minecraft as it is one of the games doing it absolutely amazingly.
The whole underlying principles that govern redstone can be applied to digital electronics. As an engineer myself, all of the major electronic components required to make things like calculators and any of the other crazy devices the community makes are there. The same exact logic in the game can be used to make these devices in real life.
The concept of redstone circuits is not shoved down kids throats. at first they can have fun with the core of the game and build stuff. But once they start to see what else they can do with the mechanics, they will slowly start to make simple switches, like a plate to open a door or press a button to open xyz. They can discover it themselves, which is huge, and inspires that much needed curiosity. And to be honest, everything you can do with redstone in the game is pretty neat!
Once they get the simple mechanics down, there is a absolutely gigantic amount of community designs available for them to copy, understand and learn from. These designs may also inspire them to make their own tweaks and add new features! The process can keep on continuing and make these kids surprisingly literate in Boolean logic
And lastly, these redstone systems have real game effects that affect the state of play. If you design a circuit, it will most likely to make something kickass in your house, not as a lesson. This is huge. It means that their curiosity drives them to wonder what is possible with the redstone system in the game and will actively make them seek out the tools to make their concepts into reality.
I know it's only for a very narrow subject, but I feel that it was implemented flawlessly. The game is based on the concept of building things, so adding the whole digital logic system adds both depth and educational value to the game with what you can create. I personally do not play it myself, I've only dicked around for a few hours, but I am so glad that it has found its way into the limelight.
+Brad Merkley [WARNING: HUGE TANGENT THAT ONLY RELATES TO YOUR COMMENT IN TERMS OF MINECRAFT WHOOPS] I can also say personally that in my experience just building things in general works on problem solving skills! Especially in multiplayer where you have other people who need you. My minecraft experience when i was about twelve or thirteen a good five or six years ago was that when I was playing multiplayer I wanted to be with people but away from them. As such I had a lot more land to work with. I was discovering new things in my cave that I was converting to my home as my friends were building incredible things! This worked out perfectly because (due to the money system implemented by a plugin) they could either A) stop their project and go get the resources they needed to finish what they were doing, B) Go to town and sell things so they could buy the items they needed, or C) Simply ask me if I had any that I wasn't using (which was tons since I wasn't building more than carving out my little home in a cliff face) or asking me to get something since I didn't have any clear goal in mind unlike them. You can see how they frequently went with C. As such I had a lot of tasks ahead of me... such as when my friend wanted a double chest full of 64 stacks of logs. I didn't have any forests nearby that I was willing to demolish so I had a problem I had to figure out. I could either tell my friend i couldn't do it and disappoint them, or I could take on the challenge.
Now two double chests is about 6,912 blocks when filled with items that stack to 64. This was a real pain in the ass because thats a lot of trees. So I figured out a system through trial and error that worked. Huzzah! Unfortunately from HERE I had another problem. Sometimes oak trees spawn to large sizes that are immensely annoying to cut down so I had to figure out a system from there. In the end I had a pretty awesome tree farm, the satisfaction of figuring it out, and overall a great time. I learned some great problem solving skills from that server, and I had the reward of helping others through doing things that I liked. It gave a sense of purpose and overall achievement.
what i'm saying is please get kids to play minecraft, they'll accomplish something ;)
+Brad Merkley Can confirm that redstone is what kept me like 20% into the game, it's got the logic teaser part.
Brad Merkley It is a good point, just the video was more about how card games should be implenented into schools, to best use their ability to teach- not so much hiw the games should be made.
The only problem is that logic gates and triggers is a subject of late high school/university degree, which puts minecraft in a weird limbo where kids either too young to get something from it or too old to play well-known game. And minecraft can be replaced with physical constructors because it doesn't bring anything new to understanding concept of EE, its just an abstraction.
That's actually a really good point. It shows where such a system can fall short in it's implementation if anything I guess. Plus it's not like the game goes out of it's way to teach logic anyway
Age of Empires, Europa Universalis, Crusader Kings and ~Sid Meier's Civilization all great games teaching about history.
Age of empires was in fact the first game that got me interested in history, from a very young age.
When I was younger the majority of my knowledge of history came from Rome Total War, which I think actually gave me a better picture of the world during Roman times than any history lesson I've ever had.
Yeah the total war series was really good..
I think the first one i tried was Shogun Total War, which i think gave me some good insights into Japan's culture and history.
Rome, yep me too. :)
Game of sultans teach me about
Resource
@@cocapelli1 As a EU player, I find amazing how i know the geography of random parts of the world better than my own country, so do people arround me.
I sent this to one of my former teachers, he loved the ide
I like cheese
@@mr.poohmakes2041 Cheese is awsome
@@lordofdarkdudes agreed
Ide
This sorta stuff reminds me of how some teachers are using modded Minecraft to teach kids about math, geography, science, art... you can teach pretty much anything elementary grade level on Minecraft, in a way that lets them explore for themselves. And they reward them for good behavior and paying attention by letting them play on their own afterward. I personally love this concept, and hope that more open-world/sandbox can be used in this way.
honestly, using some adventure maps, you could make some much more engaging tests. At the very least it would be better then what we have now.
Ive heard of that before, about the teachers using mincraft as learning...i totally want to go to that school :')
You're assuming all kids are competitive by nature though.
In grade 6 my year had a unit where we were learning about different government types. And since my teacher was a gamer.he recommend Minecraft. The IB curriculum is about kids teaching themselves so the other teachers agreed.
Each class had an island and we all chose our leaders and government types.
There might have been a few wars and burning of villages that I might have done (I was the head spy (I'm truly not kidding)) but it was definitely one of my favorite school experiences.
What our tech teachers do for kids is direct them to different educational game websites full of flash games that teach you. Teachers tell kids "Get to level 10 in any field in FreeRice.com", and even though it was all the same sort of test-answering stuff, people got more engaged. There were levels to gain, so kids would compete. They would go further than the teacher told them to because GOSH DARNIT McKenzie got to level 15 in Spanish so I've gotta get to 16! Or, kids would be told to go to a certain website and play a game from the Math tab. Kids got to choose, kids got competitive in it, and without even trying to, kids began learning.
It's not exactly a perfect system, but it's better than forcing a bunch of kids to sit through a lecture.
Or forcing them all to play the same game.
When I was in a public school is special aid, (Or something like that) the last few months, I had to only play on this ONE website (I think there was two websites but my memory is rather bad) and play these 20 or so games and couldn't go to any other website. I wanted to play Webkinz or Neopets, my escapes at the time. BUT NOPE. Play the same fucking games until the end of school. I think if I was still at that school, I would STILL be playing those games made for 1 and 2 graders. I knew that stuff at that time but forced myself to play them.
+Littleblu33 the key is in the last sentence. The best learning is done in order to accomplishing something other than learn.
my biggest problem with educational games is that they down right suck, not just graphically but also how they play is just beyond god awful. especially the games forced on you in schools (at least where i come from). One of the main problems i see with this is that they are all games that lack any action what so ever. I have even had a teacher tell me that War Thunder (Gaijin Entertainment) is a terrible game because "you 'kill' people in it". I have also had teachers and staff tell me that the units in Rome Total War "look nothing like what they would in real life and there for are falsely based and teach you how to kill". and here in-lies the big problem for me, schools only focus on what the games look like (like game reviewers) rather then what it actually helps you learn and what it plays like and how that helps teach you. For example War Thunder looks on the surface like a WW2 PVP flight sim, which it is, however it also teaches you how to read a map and asses a given situation while also teaching hand-eye-coordination. Now going back to Rome TW, that game can teach you 5 things, the first is history. This is shown by not only the unit cards and how they look and behave on the field but also the monuments, character names, and city names and locations. Second is that once again it teaches you how to read a map and asses a given situation both on a scale of about a kilometer or so, and on a "global" scale. Third is how to bargain, the diplomacy feature in Rome TW is a great feature because it teaches people bargaining, which is very useful in the real world. Fourth is economics and how to make a budget, the building and requirement options in the game plus the limited amount of money you get forces you to decide how best to spend your money. Fifth and final it teaches you how to solve problems, for example on the battle field you are confronted with several elite units and yours are not so much, do you charge head long, run, or find a way around their advantage? Honestly i know that anything i say will be ignored because the people who run my schools are politically and ideologically driven and that anything i say will probably get the same treatment as a defector from the soviet union so really there's no point as far as i see it.
BlackSkullHeart i beg to differ, because yes you can actually fail in games, for example in rome total war if you dont complete the objectives in time or run out of money you loose the game, also with a manufacturing job or a job that requires you to fly an aircraft or drive a vehicle hand-eye coordination is extremely important
Why so much words
julius c I completely agree with you. And some of those teachers that disagreed with you about the benefits of games do realize the bigger picture that playing games provide; maybe they have been too brainwashed by the status quo and think that the status quo way is best, they probably don't play games themselves and thus don't know, OR they are just stupid!
This is crazy. I literally just made a video on education saying very similar things, that to get the best learning we need environments where students are motivated by things they care about and are challenged to explore them.
So glad I found this mini series on education. I need more!
QUICK! SHOW THIS TO THE BOARD OF EDUCATION!
AND DO IT IN EVERY COUNTRY!
Even North Korea?
@@Tintaaa uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
This is an interesting subject for me because I don't go to school. I'm homeschooled because my mom doesn't like the school system. And since I went to school for two or so years, I'm inclined to agree. Another reason for us homeschooling is because half the members of our family, me and mom included, have special needs (look it up I can't explain properly). It basically means we have a hard time operating in society. School especially. We have the Thomas Jefferson Education model (again look it up).
Great video. Very clever and true.
I also hate how some "innovative" schools just force kids to "play" a super boring word game with cheesy transition animations. Games without visible goals to the student just don't work. I forgot the name of the game it was, but I played a game that had potato-head looking people in it for puzzles. If anyone knows what I'm talking about, tell me ASAP, I miss that game! At the beginning, you create like 10 of these creatures, they can have 1 or 2 eyes, or no eyes at all, different colored noses, feet, or a spring, or a propeller. It was awesome.
I also played a math game that was based in a horror setting, a house or something, where you had to complete tasks to get out, and failure lead to falling down a chute or a pit that set you back, assuming you didn't learn the skills you did when you passed the previous level.
Again, if anyone can remember which games I'm talking about, I'd really appreciate it!
omg yes! Thanks so much! I've been trying to remember that name forever!
The second game I mentioned looked similar to how JumpStart Second Grade looked like, but was in a horror-house setting.
Istation is kinda like that which is so boring it matches exactly what you say
It's probably something from The Learning Company. The first one (probably Zoombinis) is by them, and the second sounds like something out of a ClueFinders game, or even the Reader Rabbit franchise (that had some surprisingly creepy settings...) Do you remember much about the horror setting's theme? E.g. classic Halloween, Alien horror, time travel, cartoony like Scooby-Doo, etc.?
Knuxiefan a
Watching this video and looking at my country (Mexico) is depressing.
Only 1 out of every 30 teachers care about their students learning. Most of them are focused just on their paychecks.
And when the (frequently stupid) government does something they don't like, they stop teaching.
It's disgusting, frustrating and awfully common these days. :(
there is also this trend about caring more about grades than about the value of the learned stuff in my country but heck i havent even watched the video yet maybe they talked about it
You should look at how they do it in the anime Baka to Test, i think its a good example. Not the specific concept, since that is way beyond our time, but just that they managed to get the students to WANT to learn
im 13, i go to school wit my skyrim guide book reading it out to myself when i have extra time, when i get home i know more about that quest or dungen. its fun
Ever since Kindergarten, I always had the idea that video games can help us learn more. I mean teaching can put people to sleep, to anger, or to not want to learn. I remember trying this in third grade, and was a huge success. Video games should be included into lots of schools. Especially math.
One of my favorite examples of education via games is Kerbal Space Program, which I am a huge fan of. It teaches orbital mechanics by letting players experiment rather then making them memorize a bunch of facts and equations. It's great because it's fun and engaging, I have spent many lectures in school thinking about how I am going to send a manned mission to another planet or save a seemingly hopeless mission. It does it's job brilliantly and even though I was quite familiar with orbital mechanics before I got that game I have learned a few things.
Are you a fan of Final Fantasy IV?
Rattika Kumsorn
No, I haven't really heard much about it.
+mikeman7918 The outro song is from Final Fantasy IV
+mikeman7918 I'm a Thailand people, Y' know
It's quite unrealistic but you're not wrong. Im a huge fan myself, with over 1100 hrs played. I started around 2015-2017(I sort of forgot when).
I know I started right after the release of 1.1.2 and boy would it be nostalgic to all the way back.
When I was a kid we'd actively seek out the computers with the games on them - even if they were more educational games (Oregon Trail, Amazon Trail, Number Munchers, Math Blaster, Mavis Beacon, Gizmo and Gadgets, etc), because they were still fun and it wasn't necessarily forced down our throats. Sure, we had maybe an hour of computer lab once a week or twice a month, and they'd go "You can do this game," but even then it wasn't overbearing or awful, it was like recess. It was fun. We'd look forward to it. But if we start using games too much, a lot of that appeal might disappear, much like how many kids don't like reading because of all the forced reading we were put through, or start hating exercise because we were forced into doing 30 minutes of laps in PE rather than freely running around and playing our own way like we did in recess. I dunno.
I think another problem is that the makers of the educational games don't work the lessons into the gameplay, just the text, or they just make a liniar question and answer type of game.
Yes! I have been saying this for so long! This seems to be especially a post-2000s problem. If we look at Amazon Trail or Oregon Trail, those were some good, classic educational games. So was Freddy Fish for that matter, though still a bit on the linear side. Still, wayy better than the "drilling with animations" type games we have flooding the market right now. A lot of games are out there now that are educational in nature, but when discussing the issue with colleagues they pretty much juxtaposed fun and learning in games. *This*, more than anything, I think is why educational games tend to fail. They are designed with a defeatist mindset, that somehow if it is too fun they can't learn. Games like RTW, KSP, WarThunder, and so many others have educational value yet are overlooked. I think the exception being Mad Libs, English teachers seem to understand the value of having content knowledge be a prerequisite for making the game playable.
***** On the math point, I think the flash game "Spitfire 1940" is a great example. It takes 4 factory workers to produce 1 Spitfire in a turn. You have so many recruits to divide between pilots and factory workers for the next round. Every pilot without an aircraft is a pilot wasted. Every Spitfire without a pilot is a Spitfire wasted. Basic arithmetic, but it is mixed with history as well as basic deductive reasoning (your intelligence reports are typically incomplete, though by deductive reasoning you can sometimes figure out what the regions to be attacked are, since no region will be attacked by more than 1 wave).
Additionally, you can figure out the minimum and maximum amount of damage that can be reconstructed by construction workers, as well as the minimum and maximum number of workers that will be recruited by your recruiters, giving you an idea of what you have to work with.
I suggest you give it a try. It may not be the greatest game out there, but it would be more than a step up from the "educational" games we have on the market.
Perhaps we could use a system like hearthstone or another turn based card game, and you would have to figure out equations in order to find the health and/or damage of what you are attacking with. I think that would be an interesting take on math education
Michael Beebe "...and you would have to figure out equations in order to find the health and/or damage of what you are attacking with."
Aand there's where I beg to differ. Strongly. Educational games like Oregon Trail and certain other late 80s early 90s games were valuable because they taught kids things in a manner that was natural. Games attempt as much as possible to avoid feeling artificial. Note, for example, that quicktime events are kept to a bare minimum, and when they are used it generally makes sense with the situation.
I suspect that you work in education, but considering that you follow this channel I hesitate to assume that you don't play many videogames. If either is untrue, let me know because I will try to tailor the rest of my explanation as much to a teacher's perspective as possible.
I know this is a bit of an odd analogy, but when it comes to classroom management teachers are taught to use logical consequences as much as possible and to focus on rewards rather than punishments (e.g. timeout/suspension). Entertainment is similar in a way. This is mentioned in another video, but you try to keep as much of the game as possible intrinsically rewarding. Having students solve a formula to advance is extrinsically, artificially rewarding, the only reason that they do it is to get to the next part.
I highly recommend looking at the browser-based flash game "Spitfire 1940." Guesswork is possible, but it will yield worse results. In an attempt to be half-good at it, estimation skills at a minimum are built. Additionally, it is not exclusively used to teach math. This is another huge advantage of videogames: you can tackle multiple content areas at once. In Oregon Trail, you learn history in regards to events and places common on the trail which covers history, but you also have to budget your resources, a soft skill tied in with math that will greatly help students in life.
The reason that I recommend that specific flash game I listed above, but let me reiterate some of it: Players learn math because they need the correct balance of pilots and aircraft (multiplication, a certain number of factory workers pump out one aircraft, either a Hurricane or a Spitfire). It encourages kids to study the Battle of Britain, albeit starting with the trivial details (intelligence reports are provided describing the planes simply as "Heinkels," "Messerschmidts," or "Dorniers." The student will not immediately recognize which ones are the fighters and which are the bombers. This will require some research on their part, and in the process they will likely come across far more valuable information about WWII.
Finally, depending on how many agents the player has, some parts of the intelligence reports will be missing. When they realize that no region is struck by two waves at the same time, this ushers in deductive reasoning skills, as sometimes a report will say "location X or Y." If one report says "X or Y," and another report says "Y or Z," the player can assume that either X or Z must be struck. If yet a third report states that Z will be struck, then it can be determined that X must be struck as well, since both waves will not go for Z. Teachers are expected to teach students how to learn, and deductive reasoning is a huge part of that puzzle.
Most importantly: All of these academic skills are used contextually. They are not simply drills awkwardly tacked on to a game that would have been good on its own. Worse, too often we have games where if you take away the drilling, what you have left is no more then an animation. Make sure that when you design a videogame, all academic skills are used contexually.
edit: one point I forgot to mention, you would have to clarify to students that during the Battle of Britain, the German aircraft did not have enough fuel to attack any region other than the SE, such as London.
101jir I'm not a teacher or anything. In fact I'm still in high school and play a lot of Rouge likes and those sort of games, I just thought it would be an interesting concept and it would be a decent alternative if you had to choose between that kind of game and regular studies.
3:16 attack on cd case
xD I just realized what you meant.
i c wat choo ded der
I want more edutainment in this world, MORE!!
This is really enlightening. Even though for some reason I've been getting a pathological need to do math. And IDK why...
When I was younger, I used to play a series of games called "Cluefinders", at least that's what I think they were called. They featured cohesive plots, puzzles, math problems, statistics, geography, and observational skills to advance in the games. I remember them because they were some of the first games I played and they took themselves seriously (Think Indiana Jones for the general theme). After them, I discovered Age of Empires which sparked an enduring interest in history, strategy, and more or less taught me mathematics (Target HP / [ranged damage - ballistic armor] = number of shots to kill it excluding misses, reverse the equation and compare for odds of winning the battle). In any event, what I'm trying to say is: The "educational" component cannot be the primary gameplay. A game for teaching history should include a playspace that is relatively close to the events being portrayed, and benefits in-game for paying attention to the optional historical blurbs in some kind of in-game codex. A game for teaching math should never have "Solve 5+ (4x2)= To open the drawbridge." Instead, that game should bury the math it is trying to teach within the underlying mechanics and then make understanding those mechanics essential to getting the most out of the game.
Here is a possible and simple solution so this problem. English class. Don't change books to video games or movies but instead give the class an option. Kids who want books can do A, Kids that want to do movies can do B, and kids that want to do video games can do C. For example the book kids can analyze The Great Gatsby. The kids for the movies can look into the hardships that the soldiers go through in saving private Ryan or whatever is appropriate. The kids for the Games can go in-depth based the games they want like RPG's, visual novels, or delve into that FPS that they like. While they would be heavily regulated within choice like if you go RPG you might get Persona or fallout while if you go FPS you might get Wolfenstein the New order or Call of Duty MW1.
I don't think this will just make english more interesting to a wider audience of students but get it out of its mediocrity that it has been in. Not only would it bring gaming into schools but it could be used for teaching.
Another thing that they could do is bring it into Phys ed class for reactions. Why not sit down to play Street fighter V or Rainbow Six Siege and then at the end of the week see how much improvement your cognitive skills and reflexes have gone up. While is it as healthy as say a good game of soccer no but it is still physical education.
These are just my solution to getting games into school but also fixing how english class could work for people who think reading is just bland and boring as I do because we all know how much we really wanted to read a Tale of Two Cities or The Merchant of Venice. But it would also expand on phys ed for some of those students who don't like the unit that they are doing in Gym like volleyball or tennis.
+Raging karma Although I agree with your basic ideas, I don't thin that giving children the choice of subject is a practical solution. For one, I'm not personally certain if there are many children that would actively choose to study books when there is the choice to study video games. Secondly, there is also the problem that children could be pressured into choosing video games, or even picked on for choosing books as their subject. Finally, there is the problem of logistics, bearing in mind I'm writing this with English schools in mind, there just aren't the resources following this to develop three different curriculums for books, movies and video games and there definitely aren't the resources for the teachers to be able to supply this.
I do this that english is in somewhat of a mediocrity, but I'm not certain that a change of media is what is necessary to bring it out of this. In fact, from a personal view, I think that encouraging children to read if a very positive thing.
Again, for the sake of this being posted on the internet, I must reiterate that this is a lot of my own opinion (and also based on english schools), but I'd also like to mention that I'm currently doing a dissertation on whether video games can be integrated into education, so it's a subject that I'm very curious about and welcome any further disucssion!
That said, encouraging children to write about their gaming experience? Yeah, that's useful in English class. Gaming gives us lots of stories we like to tell our friends -- that's half the fun of gaming in fact. Teaching students to express those stories in an intelligent and literate way is a very good thing.
To be honest the ability to construct a functioning paragraph is more important to Enlgish profiiciency than what that paragraph is about. So if kids have gaming experiences they want to write about -- a close shave in an FPS, a mechanic they want to complain about in a favorite video game (SPG's in World of Tanks, the so-called Noob Tube, whatever), just discourage them from using uncivil language in the write-up and you're golden.
+Raging Karma - as much as that's a wonderful idea, the English class one wouldn't work at all probably. Part of the reason English teaching is a mediocrity is because comprehension is incredibly difficult to quantify - if you want a decent grade, welp, you'd better stick to something the teacher's analyzed before so they have some basis of understanding as to whether or not you're talking out your behind. One can brilliantly analyze an incredible book, but if it is utterly obscure to teacher they're unlikely to give more than passing grade. Games often require more effort to go through than a book, particularly for the stuffy types that seem to end up as english teachers, so it's just unreasonable. Lovely idea though.
Hey it was only and idea maybe someone could go around and change it so it could work.
A while ago I had a theory for a home studying app that would replace the need for assigned grindy learning. Instead of being assigned 40 math problems or a bunch of chem problems, this app could automatically generate problems in your current topic, and as you did them, you would gain XP in that subject and very slowly gain overall XP. This way, a teacher would not even need to assign that type of learning, because the lure of leveling up and the rewards that come with it would keep us coming back. And once you get really, really good at a topic, you can finish it faster and earn more XP, so mastering a skill would be vital.
Great idea!
Real clever
I've had computers around almost as long as I've been educated, and now I'm in college. I remember, in rare occasions, having the option to play "edutainment" games, namely JumpStart and Carmen Sandiago, but Humongous Entertainment counts in there too. In elementary school, this worked great twofold: I got to explore and problem solve and develop skills that felt autonomous, and I developed a love for games and exploration. Now I find the internet is a treasure trove for gaming that applies to my education. This semester, my math course was based around mostly practical skills-based math, like interest rates and loans, parts of groups and probability, etc. This class was easy for me because, in part, I look for problem solving games. Lots of my classmates who struggled don't play games at all, which I learned from asking around a bit while I tutored. Maybe the question isn't integrating games in the classroom, but instead two steps: 1) destigmatization of games as simply a playtime thing, that can't be serious so people aren't so culturally against the gamer mentality, and 2) open dialogues that explore curriculum subjects whole focusing on a gaming subject. Some examples would be discussing what different characters fall into what motifs and archetypes in an RPG for an English class to tie against the purpose of characters in a book, like characters in 1984, facing a suppressive government, versus characters in final fantasy or other games for literature analysis. Mario physics applied to a physics class, or Mario Maker used to represent those physics. One that interests me is discussions on who chose what paths in Fallout. Why did some students choose to blaze a path forward with force, while others chose to sneak around, or communicate to settle conflicts. We need to make it okay to play games and then open ourselves up to discussing the implications of those games in relationship to our real world and our school curriculum.
A scientific study has shown that playing video games heightens one's reflexes.
NoESanity
Oh! That's news to me! 😮
+Nine_Tails137 and modern studies are concluding the fact that sitting too close to a monitor ruins your eyesight is from the bygone era of CRT's as it has never been observed to happen with a LCD or any other panel
Justin Noker
Yeah, my parents have often told me that sitting to close to a TV Screen will NOT make you go blind.
NoESanity i meant there was like some other basis, with CRT's it was true from the radiation they emitted (no, not like nuclear bomb radiation that makes you grow a third testicle, i mean like the type that falls apart after about a foot from the source) and well, the parenthesis kinda explain it
NoESanity i had a long day okay?
Wish my teachers would see this video, or even understand it (I am not from UK or USA) and learn from it.
I'm not from the US either, but I'm considering making subtitles for this video and showing it to my main teacher.
Accalia Wolf That is a VERY good idea indeed.
+Lamin Nanne Wow, that's actually kinda amazing, how's that going?
***** Aww, that sucks. I'm sorry. :(
guys, i am doing a research titled gaming in education and i just watched this video. if there are credible sites that i can use to expand my research please tell me.
thanks.
The problem with learning via curiosity is that those will voluntarily choose subjects that peak one's interests. I want to be an engineer, but I am required to do classes on history and literature/fine arts. I have no interest in either of these, especially literature!!! So creating a game that will make me want to learn these will be extremely difficult, especially if I know the game is a literature-learning game.
i know exactly how you feel geez i hate language arts class (i find this to be the most useless class, i really cant express how much i hate it). maybe a heavily story based game? where the story is so interesting you'd want to learn every detail. or something like that
Power Max Have you ever seen an episode of "Engineering an Empire"? They are pretty informative on the cultural aspects of civilizations, while keeping in the context of engineering for the ancient world.
I don't know how that works in the US school system, but here in the Netherlands, the subjects you have no interest in but are manadory are usually needed as common knowledge.
appelpower1
Yeah, in England only English/maths/science/ICT (and in some schools a modern foreign language) are compulsory core subjects after the age of 13, and everything else you do should theoretically be something your interested in. It doesn't always work that way, since you still have to pick four other subjects and you might only like two of the options, but you don't have to continue with absolutely everything.
BooksMusicMe17 It's the same way here in the Netherlands. I'm glad that's the case; I don't want any more Physics, Chemistry and, god forbid, Biology.
Recently, in my Texas history class, we spent a week watching the movie, "The Alamo". Looking at this, imagine if while you were studying speed and velocity in science, you spent a week play Portal/Portal 2. Maybe for English, you'd play The Stanley Parable to learn about writing narratives. It's a great idea I'd think, and I don't see why we shouldn't do it, I mean, we can't really watch anything that's higher than G without parental consent, and said movie has tad bit of swearing in it, and so does portal, so why not ask parents if it's okay to play Portal in class?
The only problem is that those games cost money.
They can buy iPads, they can buy some $10 games.
And, in one of my classes, the school bought 30 Minecraft accounts.
Michelle Johnson well that and they arnt games that require the student to do any kind of calculus to solve the issue at hand making their aplyabilty limited for classroom use of inspiration of learning.
however in my eyes, if there was one game that could be used to teach physics and inspire kids to independently learn it its ksp,
imagine how much you could teach if you got a class divided into teams with the first one to work out the delta v capacity of a craft or another stat being aloud to fly the craft or get some kind of external reward.
you would literally be incentiviseing rocket science in a friendly and engaging way.
Pardon me if this has already been said;
It seems to me like one possible answer that could go a long way to alleviating the problem of forcing games on students would be to offer them as a voluntary alternative to any other learning technique being used in the classroom; you don't -have- to play this game, but if you'd rather do it than drill the other way, you can. Admittedly, this probably isn't an optimal solution, but it would probably make a lot of kids happier to pic the game just knowing it was a choice they made, even if the only provided alternative was just something they like less.
This would also allow the non-game portion of the classroom to focus more on one-on-one attention and getting past hurdles in understanding; places where drilling and practice breaks down because something just doesn't make sense to the student yet.
Which is also like Khan Academy in its way, but doesn't have to be unique to their system.
i (at this moment 13 years old), am developing a game for education, with help of teachers for the theory. but also with help of other kids to have their opinion and perspective on what works and doesnt to make them learn with it and let them have fun learning with it.
***** Inserting literature is actually simpler than it seems. EC has already talked about "For whom the bell tolls", all the game needed to connect to that classic piece of literature was for one character to ask "What do you mean?" Also, games and literature can be placed alongside one another. The Hero's Journey (already tought in my school using Star Wars) applies to every great story from Shakespear to Zelda to even lesser comidies such as Happy Gilmore. Character development, theme, and symbolysim are everywhere in games, they just need to be pointed out.
(By the way, about the whole saltpeter+ash+sulfer=gunpowder thing: a few simple science-y paragraphs turns Minecraft into Everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-geology/electricity/horticulture/metalurgy/woodworking/ chemistry/construction. Bingo.)
I just made a game a few months ago that teaches the basics of game development. I'll admit, its not perfect(it was my first ever game as an Indie), but it introduces real lines of code while you play and at the end of it you can watch some videos on my channel to actually make your first game. If you get a chance, check out "Codezle" on iPhone and Android, its free and I'd love to know what you think!
I work in education and yes absolutely! I'm with you on this.
Even just having games that take place in a historically accurate setting, like Red Dead Redemption can do a lot to spark that initial interest. Then, when you go back to that history textbook, it almost feels like you're reading the Codex in Mass Effect, something you explore out of a genuine interest, not just because you have to. Imagine if you were forced to memorise the codex in ME without playing the game and then had to take an exam on it. Wouldn't be a very enjoyable to learn then.
Agreed. The first example that came to my mind were Civilization scenarios. They are engaging, fairly historically acurate, have a nicely built-in encyclopedia with all the historical and mechanical facts (which also teaches children how to research) and there are ones for almost all of mankind's history's epoches from the classical to the modern era.
3:16
On that day mankind received a grim reminder: we lived in fear of the Education Games and were disgraced to live in these cages we called schools.
cool
Maybe we're looking in the wrong direction. In kindergarten, it's very different to school. The kids might wake up at a certain hour and go to a place the must go, but most of the kids want to. What's the different between kindergarten, first grade, and higher classes? The difference is that in school, everyone is sitting a class doing a very specific thing, while in kindergarten they are free to do whatever they want. There are many games, and many people to play, and there is also someone to be there for them! This is almost exactly what you have shown in the video - school needs to be more like kindergarten, but not exactly, because nobody is gong to stay in kindergarten forever. but think about it.
ps. you guys are AMAZING. thank you very much for supporting game design all around the globe.
This was really insightful! I wish there was some way to share this knowledge with the whole education system.
I really like this episode for bringing up a lot of different things about games in education. In my school, at 6th grade you have to do Xtra math multiplication, then division (to master basic math facts), then fraction nation (which treats you like a little kid), and then Khan Academy which all my friends love because they say they are actually learning stuff, rather then talking about stuff we already know about adding tiny bits and pieces onto it.
+SoniX Treme Yeah, Khan Academy is amazing! I use it for biology. Another good program (if you're looking for just traditional school) is Teaching Textbooks for math. They actually explain everything and why it is true, and you aren't confused. Also, it's self-grading and has explanations for each problem you get wrong, which is very useful.
SoniX Treme I wish my school used that right now they use something else and it stinks you don't learn a thing
bad example of this is moby max most kids find workarounds to doing work like "if put up a new tab with a game on it you can play it as long as you want if you switch of the tab when the teacher comes by" or "for all the open ended questions you can put any thing in and still get 100% even if you type cuss words" plus your forced to do it. the only real drive is OMG U GOT LIKE 55 SWEEPSTAKES TICKETS YOUR SOOOO GONNA WIN AND GET THE PRIZE HOW DID YOU EVEN GET THAT MANY and then do nothing to try and get there own plus there is always the "Oh me? ya im doing my work" when all your actuly doing is pulling up random graphs you cant even read much less understand .there is all these "moby max worked great in my class!" quotes on the home page but
1 there is only like 3 of them
2 do you ACTUALLY think there gonna put any "My class learnd nothing this is terible!" quotes up there?
all in all I think moby max is TERRIBLE for this kind of education and if you don't believe me try it for yourself.
www.mobymax.com/
TLDR: having the feeling of choosing what you do makes that thing (game or not) a lot more powerful. And it's doable in a classroom setting.
Quite interestingly, This rule of "you can't force someone to play a video game and assume the student will learn by it" applies to pretty much anything. How many kids think they don't like reading because they are forced to read books they don't want to read? I recently was talking with a friend about the fact that I have the feeling of most of my knowledge (at least the things I remember the most) comes from things *I* decided to watch or read.
I got to love reading thanks to a teacher I had. She would not make us read a particular book. She just made a "reading corner" in the classroom. With giant pillows and all. And shelves with lots of books. We could go to the reading corner if we finished our exercises, at pauses if we did not feel like going outside, or even during the lunch hour. We could also borrow books and take them home.
The only rule was: You have to read a book a month; and fill a card with title, author, quick summary, and why you liked it or not. Guess what? IT WORKED. Because in all the books available you would eventually find something that you enjoyed. And then another, and another.
Also:
- Most of the things I learned as a kid was by watching documentaries on DVDs my father bought me. (those were french shows made to simplify science - I think an American equivalent would be "Bill Nye the science guy"). He didn't make me watch this. He just offered me a DVD one day, and then I liked it and asked for many more. I could watch them several times, during hours on weekends and vacation, as you watch a movie. And I learned without knowing it.
- Most of the things I learned as a teenager and today was from UA-cam. Things I watch in my free time like this video because I want to, I like to.
I think there is few important things going on here. The feeling of having a choice of what to do. Having the choice of when to do it. Being trusted. Not being pushed to do something or constantly being reminded you have to do it.
And also make the activity attractive by every mean: the reading corner really was a place of soft and warm comfort.
EDIT: Just realized a big strength of the reading corner was also that it was presented as a reward "if you finish you exercise earlier, you can go read" subtlety implies that reading is a reward
When I was in junior high, my PE class had just gotten enough funding to buy 2 DDR machines. So on fridays, they would pull them out, and we got a choice: you can play the game, or you can walk laps around the gym.
I usually chose to play the game.
But one thing that always bothered me was tangential to this choice.
My class period for PE was shared with the special needs students. They wanted to play the game too. No big deal.
Except they always had their choice removed.
They got to play, but they never got to pick the song. It was always Girls Just Wanna Have Fun because it was the easiest song in the game.
And they barely got to play.
Anyone who has played DDR knows that if you get enough moves wrong the level ends.
So to keep that from happening because their reaction times were slower, other students would stand on the sides and press the buttons for them so the level wouldn't end and they wouldnt feel sad.
But it bothered me because this meant they could never improve because people wouldnt let them.
End rant.
Maybe they could do something like how they use novels. Novels are meant for enjoyment, for entertainment, but they are used as a means to educate in school about character development and other story telling stuff. Maybe they could use episodic games in the same way where they discuss the episodes of the game in class. They could use games specifically designed for enjoyment, because even if they try to make a game fun. If it's only purpose is for education, chances are students aren't going to like it. Even if it would be fun to play. The fact that it is for education makes it uncool.
That is just me rambling some thoughts out though :P
I made a list of PC games that can be used in the classroom. Most are available on Steam.
www.gameskinny.com/ijj7k/pc-games-for-the-classroom
While I was researching this, I was upset to learn that the original Typing of the Dead is not available anymore unless you purchase a used CD. We should petition Sega to put it on Steam.
see, i can totally relate here. there are things that i can do in games that i just don't do in real life. for example, here are a few anecdotes:
-i love nuzlocking pokemon games. whenever i catch a new pokemon, i look it up and do some research. i see if its stats are good or just meh. i see what moves it learns when, and what level i should evolve it so that it has the most efficient movepool.
-another thing that i do in nuzlockes is that i'll stubbornly train a weak pokemon because i know that it'll be really powerful once it evolves. i'll grind and grind and i know that for all this work, all this effort, one critical hit or unexpected super effective move could just throw it all away. even so, i still do it. i still train those weak pokemon until they might eventually be strong.
researching topics to know more about them and optimizing my experience, doing something for only a long-term goal that might not amount to anything at all, these are things that i can do in games, but not in real life. i still can't quite figure out exactly why games just make this easier, but it just happens.
My favorite educational game is Kerbal Space Program. No better way to teach orbital mechanics!
Thank you for giving me idea! Lately I have been planning to make a game to make my students get interested in economic sciences (I also am planning to use the data for my grad school dissertation). Wish me luck!
That SnK reference though. XD
i have an idea for games. so the teachers make a game and secratly tell a few students that if they hang out in a poupular place near the school and play the game and tell anyone who asks them what there doing that there just playing a game they will get extra credit on a test or somthing do that and all of a suden this happens "hey what u doing bro?"
"just playing a game you wanna try?"
"sure! wow this is good where did you get this?"
"on the app store i can download it to your phone if you want."
"ok here"
BOOM done and done
I self teach myself any and all the technological knowledge I need. College hasn't done a fantastic job of challenging me so I go out of my way to learn multiple programs and boost my computer worth. I wish games were implemented more as well. Feel like it could fuel that drive our education so desperately needs nowadays.
"That way the average intelligence goes up, increasing the productivity and economy of the nation, then using that money to fuel the next step."
Yeah..... that's not how government works. Usually nothing ever gets done. I'm sort of torn, because on one hand, when governments are competent, we end up with the NSA. But on the other hand, stuff needs to get done.
Wow I didn’t know pretty much everyone zones out and daydreams when bored
Man I love you guys you gave me a way to verbally explain to others that deep rooted feeling I get with games instead of going outside.
I've done game testing for years, and yeah its hard work in the end.
This is the first time I've watched content on this channel, and I'm loving it! But I am confused about who this James person is. Can someone clarify?
James is the writer for the show.
one of the best educational games is mount & blade, all of them.
Hey Extra Credits crew, what are the chances a subscriber could arrange a audio Skype chat with James, or otherwise arrange a correspondence to talk about the topic of education in gaming?
+Jonathan Williams Probably on Patreon.
This.... This is what i've been saying for years...
Giving the proper motivation is key in education.
omg, already watched it 2 times.
god damn pokemon evs and ivs all i can think of in school sometimes i mean damn
what if we copy baka and test. its an anime so it must work.
Just finished metro last light, then went to youtube and found this
Today was a good day
I subscribed.
This is about the tenth video I've watched by you guys, and you're amazing.
+Dekron i subscribed because of their cute animation of games lol
This video really helped me on an essay i was doing
Hah loved the attack on titan refference :D! Great episode as always folks!
Is that an arrested development reference at 0:12?
in my drafting class in high school we played roller coaster tycoon lol
Perhaps with physics we could hid exponential, multiplication, addition within game mechanics. Exponential for example could be embodied by stuff like characters which once played start out weak, but gain strenght. Perhaps the whole game could be about your side =ing the other side whether it is NPC or player.
Perhaps something about equation subtraction (x^2+4x+2) minus the equation (x^3+1) for a given x? Perhaps this game is just a never ending series of working off the same equations and modifying them.
Could it while un-precounciously teaching them physics also be sorting through it and mathematics maybe using the game as an evolutionary computer to find new mathematical phenomena?!
+logan milliken With hearth stone and nearly all games they are turn based, but turn based does mess with equations at least in adding added complexity. If we use a turn based model in this anything done on the second turn (in a model like hearthstone) would instead of being just X with whatever other stuff comes with that 'character' or whatever it would be (x-1) within that characters function. Turn 3 would be (x-2)... et cetera. Of course there are numberous things we could do to move away from the hearthstone model (which I only reference out of addiction and some hope or dread that they might already be doing this), like make heroes and/or characters involunterable for so many turns or forever, make npc's "static" as in they don't have a choice of cards, but are a static equation, while you are the shifting element.
+logan milliken Just a bunch of lucid, feeds for thought. I have yet to do any of this math myself.
true, it looks great, however, the subtle and hidden educators and harvesters are going to be a thing soon. A massive thing and no one sees it coming.
Well, hidden educational things may not make it out the door, they are pretty hypothetical, but harvesting the players' minds and computers incognito... massive.
Even while listening I though of ways they could use games in classes, like games set during historic periods to teach students of those periods. Games like Guitar Hero (swap the guitar with the coloured buttons for one with strings) to teacher students music, etc.
Hugo Fontes but if students are really interested, they will learn
NoESanity what does seeing the world have to do with becoming a musician
Attack on titan reference! 3:16
Great video as always guys keep it up! :D
Soo about that voice acting episode?
Wow im so sad that i live in germany :D i Want James haha
I can see games like Petz 5 being used to teach genetics, Harvest Moon agriculture and money management, Pokemon for math and some science (i.e. cause and effect, etc), Age of Empires or Fire Emblem for logic and strategic thinking, Final Fantasy or Kingdom Hearts for storytelling, Animal Crossing (kinda) finances, Etrian Odyssey for cartography, Minecraft for art, architecture, geography, alot actually. KOTOR could teach morals, and Okami for understanding other cultures. Wow, lots of educational stuff already in games, I mean, my little brother learned some geography from Minecraft already. He draws cross-sections of the world with the minecraft blocks and they are pretty close to what it's really like. And I actually got better at strategy after playing Fire Emblem Awakening for a week, as in I started to do better at board games and planning ahead.
There are a few strategy games that also involve some economical element, and city management. Such as 1701 or 1404 A.D. If you try out these games they will also teach you multitasking, you have to keep your settlement happy, as well as manage finances and trade. And if you want a bit of challenge and a historical niche with strategy involved the Total War games are great for that as well. Banished is a great relaxed environment, you just have to help your town grow and survive. No fighting, no wars to think about. Kinda like Sim city if you ever heard of it.
For some geometry and angles WoT(MMO game) can help a bit in that area.
And later on you can try to learn the more advanced calculations if you want to get really specific armor thickness with a certain angle, along with calculating shell effectiveness hitting those angles (I haven't done this yet :/[well I do a very rough calculations...]).
There are tons of games out there that can teach you many things. And most games help teach you how to manage inventory, finances, and even how to work with others (just need to find the right games for that).
Most MMO's can help you learn how to deal with people, as you are literally with people, doesn't matter if it is an act or not(most people tend to bring their real personality anyways).
Sweet, I either haven't played or haven't heard of the games you listed, so I'm glad you brought them up.
Zoo Tycoon is also worth mentioning since it teaches you money management and how to keep customers happy.
Madison S
Hmm might try that at some point.
GTA for how to get money.
Hello @Games in Education. Awesome episode. I'm glad to know that it is not just few of us who think the same way - that games can be medium for learning. That is what I'm trying to promote in my channel too. I'm still ongoing of making it better but that is part of the learning. I like that I learned from your video and will continue to support your channel. Thank you and more power to your team. =)
games could replace books in school actually... if there were appropriate games for every school subject ; )
learning might even be faster that way... but it'd have to be very good / creative and engaging games, interesting for everyone, that's the problem.
You guys should check out Sokobond. It's a "chemistry" puzzle game that takes the bleh out of covalent bonds.
I think abot this subject lot more than I should expesaly since said time chould be used to up my history grade what about a game whare you take over the contenent with historical acurasy whold be a hells lot better than the flash cards in world cultures
I think that the best thing that games in education can do to deal with the issue of being forced to do them is simply to make the games optional. Assuming that the game is well made (cough, cough) then making it optional and offering some extra credit for playing it can act as a sort of placebo effect. If you don't make it mandatory, but still give the option, I think it could work out really well.
If you're driven by curiosity towards a goal, you will not be afraid to try different things and take risks, unlike if there's a punishment or a grade at stake if you fail. This allows for more flexibility, creativity, non-linear problem solving, making errors and correcting them on the fly. Then finally in the end, making progress and discovering new things. Students should be nudged towards their intrests in a more flexible educational system, not kicked around like in the current one.
can't say first anymore... Nevermind! ^^
nuh uh, video games are POISONING our youth
Just because the school is smaller doesn't mean it's bad. I've gone to a privet school with about 130 students for six years. Currently I'm in a bigger public school with many more students. Both of the schools have their benefits. I t depends on the person and what their goals are.
Goodness gracious, I love this series!
hahaha yah that was freaking sweet XD
Wow, thanks! It's nice to hear that. You can actually help this project by spreading a word. There's even a crowdfunding campaign on indiegogo now to raise the prize money for students, so the publicity is needed now.
I actually use StarCraft to teach artificial intelligence class at our university with great results - very much like you're describing (google 'SSCAI tournament' if you're curious).
Roblox got me interested in Game Design, Level Design, programming (Lua), and in advertising.
However, it's very focused on creating, and VERY few people are interested in doing so.
3:17 dat attack on Titan reference
I love your videos, thank you :)
I wish educational games weren't so cheesy (C'mon kids, we have to save the earth... WITH MATH!!!). Many "games" market themselves as a "fun" learning experience, but what they actually are is a worksheet with a cheesy plot. Like "type to learn", but games like "Oregon trail" were educational but fun, too.
3:16 lmao. attack on titan xD
This is AWESOME! I've been teaching for 4 years, programming and game design to 5 -10 year olds and you nailed it! Teachers and schools really need to come to grips with the idea that we are shifting away from lectures and towards experiences, reflections and projects.
Moral of this post?
FINDING Math Blaster as a kid and playing it, because you like sci-fi: AWESOME.
GIVEN Math Blaster as a kid and playing it, because your parents think it's gonna be educational: SUCKS B@//$
I read the comments from 2019 and yeah. Some "educational" games are absolutely unplayable. BUT implementing what you want the student to learn into a fun game that really sparks their curiosity and is not BS is amazing and would work. I'd love to get into rocket science or FTL travel and crazy things like that not because of school, but because of Kerbal Space Program(My personal favorite. I have 1100+ hours played) or Elite Dangerous.
Civil engineering seems fun, interesting, and challenging at the same time because of Cities:Skyline(I like to call it Cities Skylines).
Managing a massive transportation network seems interesting because of Transport Fever.
I don't remember where I got my interest in Computers and cars from, but it was not from school.
These(except that last one) are all great reasons to incorporate games. And the best part:
They all have you do some complex logic problems or math problems to achieve a goal you want to achieve in game. Although there is a catch: all the games I mentioned are expensive(Kerbal Space Program is around 45 USD on steam when not on sale). Elite Dangerous costs around 20 USD, and Cities skylines cost around as much if not more. And that might be why their not getting implemented: cost.
The only game I ever played in school was one to learn to touch type. I actually enjoyed it but I didn't learn properly from it because although most of my classmates didn't really use computers and couldn't really type at all, I'd been typing out stuff on computers for years and had already developed my own style that I was faster at than touch-typing. I ended up cheating a lot on the time trials for the touch-typing software by using my method instead, but it did help to improve my speed a lot regardless because I was always trying to beat my score.
Outside of school I played a *ton* of online educational flash games. Stuff like maps where you had to drag the right country name to the right place, or interactive quizzes. What's kind of interesting is that I played a lot of games aimed at students who were 15-16 when I was 6 or 7, and although I memorized all the right answers by trial and error I hadn't been introduced to most of the concepts in the questions in lessons. So I knew that the answer to one question would be "photosynthesis", but I had no idea what that was. Although I played that type of platformer/whatver-with-a-quiz-minigame-hidden-inside game voluntarily, I don't think I really learnt anything from them, whereas with games like the map game I still use that knowledge today.
ive been doing this with my own kiddos for years, completely by accident lol. You were right about the 3 things you were circling...I wonder if you've asked any parents about games in the home? Maybe our family is iunique but our boys have been playing games for years and they're only 7 and 9. It's actually a very natural process. Maybe you're thinking too hard haha. Ask some parents for observations, give a kid a game iMinecraft is amazing fort boys) and just....watch! You'll see. (:
They could have us play pokemon red/blue and explain to us how the game operates. Interesting computer science + simplification + video game = Fun and Learning!