A few people in the comments want to know if short exposures will compare to the long one .. good question! I covered this a year ago here - ua-cam.com/video/EMdEhQD2WxY/v-deo.html
Thanks for this comparison! It would be interesting to see your 1h exposure against 60 1min exposures... The author from SharpCap did a fantastic speech about the length of single sub-exposures - fighting against the myth "the longer the better": ua-cam.com/video/3RH93UvP358/v-deo.html Love your videos, mate! Clear skies to you! -Chris
@@catchingphotons Everyone should watch that video before they take any images to really understand exposure, background, noise, etc. I use the formula given in that video all the time and generally stick close to it. Unless it says it would be optimal to do a 30min sub, I usually back off to 10min for clouds, satellites, etc. He does a wonderful explaining the actual physics behind it.
There's a great talk by Dr Robin Glover (of SharpCap) who goes in to detail about choosing good subexposure lengths. Generally, it's only worth going long if you have very dark skies or have a very (read) noisy sensor.
Dylan bringing his A game yet again! Comes up with the coolest video ideas, then really goes to town on the analyses! Side note: Did anyone else fancy a game of chess after watching the Queens Gambit?
I really need to sort out my guiding after seeing your 1hr image, I'm currently getting big eggs at 4 minutes. Roll on 2021 to start tweaking again! You deserve many beers after that...
Yep, all about having a dark background. Using narrowband = loooong exposures that will help most, dark sky = loooong. Lot of city lights and narrowband = long exposures. But if your sky background is up, it makes more sense to go for more and shorter ones.
Nice one mate... 💪... you now need to post reprocess 1, 2, 3 of the 3600s exp 😂, perhaps it will magically stack more data ... is that a small dehumidifier that you have inside the dome? ... I went for the helix a few weeks ago and was not happy with my image, I guess I have pushed my small wide field refractor at 420mm beyond its limits... even in mono with Ha and RGB... not an easy target to get right ... cool glasses 🤓
Great vid Dylan! I remember Peter Zelinka did a video on long exposure time (low ISO) vs short exposure time (Higher ISO) with a DSLR and he had great results with long exp time too. a lot less noise. So if you have a mount that's properly aligned and stable, and you have the time (clear skies all night 🤞) then definitely worth a crack! keep up the good work! 😎
Great video Dylan, I love all of your experiments. I have a lot of nights where the transparency sucks, that quick shot with the iphone is a great idea. Cheers Kurt
Can we all take a moment to appreciate his utmost dedication to give most if not all of the comments posted a --> ❤ It makes this meaningless life of mine, just a tad bit more meaningful.. Besides.. i wanna top his record 1 hour exposures with a 24 hour exposure... 😎 🔭🌙☀️🌟 Who wears the shades now, pal?!
why is everyone watching the Queens Gambit right now?? LOL! Cool glasses btw. You mentioned about getting a new mount. Aren't mounts supposed to last something like 25 years? How long does it take for a mount to die?
The Queens Gambit! Love the game love astronomy. -Beth "your the best i've ever played....." -Lil Russian Kid ".....until you play Borgov" I have never commented on your many videos that have helped me significantly "extremely" jealous of your Talents man. Clear Skies!
Very cool. Now try stacking 60 one minute exposures and compare that to the one hour exposure? And maybe 12 5-minute exposures. How well does stacking account for those faint stars that were missing from the 1-minute shots? Etc.
Lmao 😂 Thanks for the creepy shoutout. Nice little MIB intro. 👍 On another note, that 3:45 trick is much appreciated and finally answers why my photographs come out meh.
If you want to see high clouds or want to check for haze get yourself a Seek thermal camera for your phone, you can see even slight haze hanging arround against the cold space.
You had me at "World of Warcraft bluffs". Definitely a true statement once you get flying in the older content... Now if only I could even get something decent with 5 minute subs.
Dang the stars are pretty impressive for the hour long exposure. I was expecting a trail. Btw are you getting another CGX mount or something different? I'm having issues with the CGX as well. Thinking of upgrading to the CGX-L
I actually prefer long exposure cos the noise reduction and image quality improvement is significant. While I only have a star adventurer I've still managed to get pin sharp, noise free, 30 minute long exposures using a Zeiss Distagon 15mm lens on a Canon 5DSr to capture wide field images. Even had it up to 4 mins with a monster Canon 300mm f2.8L prime haning off it, at least 2.5kg over its payload limit and it still works! Anyway, thanks again for your tips and insights. Greetings from a relentless cloudy November in Scotland.
A very nice piece of work in a short video!! I have spent something like 10 years looking at the difference between LOTS of short subs versus a much smaller number of very long subs. In my early imaging days I worked with a Hyperstar on a C11 scope and used between 1-minute and 90-second subs. I typically took 100 subs on an object with an OSC CCD. Now the result was a beautiful, completely NOISELESS image, glassy smooth - but it did not go deep!! So using the Pleiades as an example, you got a beautiful glassy smooth starfield - but there was no sign of all the Taurus Molecular cloud nebulosity surrounding the region, and there was no sign of the bunch of faint galaxies around the top of the Pleaides. I then imaged the same region with an array of Sky90s and used subs up to 1-hour long. The Taurus Molecular cloud came through and so did the galaxies. Because I had a ton of shorter subs added in, the result was also glassy smooth. But there is a problem - it's not all win-win. The very long subs started to bleach out the colour - so the brilliant blue around Merope was bleaching out to more white, and the few very red stars in the region were also starting to lose their colour. If you mix the long subs with short subs (to get the colour back) then you also start to lose some of the Molecular Cloud. So what is my conclusion after 10 years of looking at this?? NOTHING beats LOTS of subs using VERY LONG exposure times, but you should limit your exposure time depending on the object. Also the minimum number of subs you should go for IMO for a World Class image is around 50 - but if you can get 100 then go for it. Putting this altogether it means that for a World Class image you will need at least 8 - 10 hours total integration time on an object. All this is true for my lousy rural skies of course - if you are blessed with truly dark skies, you can get away with a lot less, and you will also see a great deal more than me using a lot less.
I should add - if you include just one lousy sub with the other 99 good ones YOU WILL SEE THE DEGRADATION. So the other thing you MUST do is check every single sub carefully to make sure it is of good enough quality to add into the stack.
@@DylanODonnell It really all comes down to your sky background. 10 years ago I had terrible light pollution from all the Sodium street lamps I was surrounded by - BUT - the light pollution filter very effectively removed the Sodium lines - so to my CCD camera the sky actually looked pretty dark (which is almost impossible to believe if you took an SLR picture of the sky as it was brightly lit by a sickly yellow fog). Now all my street lights have been replaced by LED lights and at first sight the sky LOOKS much darker. If you now take a DSLR picture the sky seems quite dark and there's absolutely no yellow glow - BUT - the sky background is actually now FAR WORSE than when I had all the Sodium lights. Why? Because the broadband LED lighting cannot be filtered and overall there's MORE light pollution across all visible wavelengths than I had with my Sodium-filtered sky. I am now unable to go as deep in my imaging as I could 10 years ago.
Yeah after the Starlink constellation gets built out you won't want 1 hour exposure for sure. Hell we probably will be lucky to have a 1 minute sub without a trail. In fact planning software will have to take into account when a patch sky clear of satellites will be overhead so you can image. LOL
To be fair, Yous should test the same amount of overall exposure time for each site. 1x60min vs 100x1min (stacked). I think that would deliver more honest results :)
Interesting- Longest I ever went was 20 minutes to see how many fuzzies I could get out of Markarian's chain. Interesting how the noise flattened out so much. I would be curious to see how gain and offset affect star saturation at an hour? Were you at unity gain? Nice M33! Was that with your HaGB technique?
A 1 hour sub IS better than 60 1 minute subs under good conditions. The point of diminishing returns is at about the 10 minute mark. 6 10s would be as good, and possible better than a single 60. Under perfect conditions, very dark skies, stunningly accurate tracking etc, I hour subs would be great. The draw back becomes, from a technical glitch, a wisp of cloud. Imaging 4 hours of 4 60 min subs. Each sub is 25% of the whole session. I blown frame and it is a huge loss. Shoot 24 10s, and lose a few to what ever cause, and it is just a tiny fraction. For us amateurs, great results from 1-5 minutes , with out the drawbacks. I shoot 2 minute subs for the conditions I face and am pretty happy. Not even possible to shoot 10s let alone, 1 hour. Sky conditions just don't allow for it.
Dylan - How good are Highpoint Scientific with Shipping? have found something on their US site that with Current Exchange rate is almost less than half the Local price - but concerned shipping might then end up tipping the scales... It isn't for large Item - just .7x Focal Reducer for EdgeHD8 (which no-one has as Celestron are out of stock...) - so either way I have to wait, but might as well also get it at bargain cost...
I ordered my Evo Nexstar 9.25 SCT from them, and had it shipped within a week. From New Jersey to Florida. Don't know about overseas shipping, pretty sure that's where the price will hike up if you do. But definitely stick with High Point Scientific. They are awesome, knowledgeable, and have really good support (considering pandemic here). And make sure to drop Dylan's name if you order from them. They like knowing how you learned about them.
Yep, its about the sky background noise. No filter and city lights will swamp the sensor. So then it makes more sense to go for a loooot of data and shorter exposures (do check the histogram though, having a white image might not be an issue if it’s not clipping the sensor). But when using narrowband or being at a dark site, a very long exposure will outperform shorter ones easily as you get much better signal over noise.
I'm having the same issue with my CGX-L mount. Tried hyptertuning the heck out it like your other video showed but still getting the issue. Does your mount randomly jump fast and do weird movements when slewing too?
Nice Video ! Are we starting to discuss Pixel Efficiency and Full-Well capabilities etc. ? Is this where the >$3K Cameras start to pull ahead of the Pack ? You mentioned a new Mount . Any hints or will that be a new Video reveal ? My bets are on a Harmonic Drive . Cheers . /SRK
So, will you eventually compare how 1 hour exposures vary depending upon the type of beer consumed during each exposure? I mean, with five minute subs, anything but a lite beer is likely to be disastrous, but in an hour, you've got much more time, so, stouts, or whatever should be possibilities, right?
Hi Dylan! At 8:26 it may be seen that the star has a lateral chromatic aberration. How high was the galaxy when you shot the frames? I am asking because I see a similar pattern in my photos and I wonder whether it was due to atmospheric dispersion or my refractor has optical issues since the target was between 45 and 70 degrees altitude and I thought that the dispersion should manifest itself much lower.
Hi: I come from the film side of astrophotography were exposes of 3 hours or more on hypered cooled film was the thing for detail before CMOS and CCD cameras were a thing.
Talking about making wide angle photographs of the sky with a telephone, things are progressing quickly. Iphones have very lousy cameras. The high end Samsung are starting the be good. The Huawei P40 gives pretty impressive images of the Milky Way. The top is the recent model from Xiaomi, the Xiaomi M10 T Pro, it has a 108 megapixels camera, and the images on the sky are crazy. Very likely better than with an APS reflex camera. It can stack images and do star trails, I was quite impressed by this telephone. You ought to look into it.
Good video,very interesting comparison. Please work on your sound mixing, the difference in volume between your voice and the music had me constantly turning it up or down.
Just starting out. Thanks for the info in your videos. I am so new I received my first telescope but still waiting for the parts to guide and attach the camera. I did get the Celestron CPC 1100 HD and the wedge.
Nah, that's not extreme :D How about extreme astro-processing. With a laptop strapped to you, you have to HALO jump from 35000 feet and process an astrophoto before you make it back down to the ground. If you don't get it finished by then, you have to then run through the rainforest, all the while working on the image, and then without breaking stride base jump off the top of Angel Falls. The image has to be finished by the time you get to the bottom :D If it's still not finished, you forfeit the $5million in prize money :D :P We can get Bear Grills to host the episode :D
What software do you use for image processing and editing? Do you happen to have a video going through your method of editing the image after collecting data and stacking?
@@DylanODonnell thanks. I've got decent equipment and can collect good data. I'm still trying to learn what to do with that data and how to make a decent image though. Your videos have been entertaining and helpful.
My cgx-l does the same thing, they said its within specs. I wish i could of just bought the Eq8 you got, I could of put that 4k toward the 8k mount. I am stuck under 1000mm focal length. This sucks.
@@DylanODonnell Your stars have like yellow tops and blue bottoms. I think you are already hitting atmospheric dispersion. You can also reduce star size by aligning the RGB Channels. Does anybody use adc for Deep sky ? I think it was only needed for planetary for "amateurs" (green eyed look to your manly aperture) up until now.
@@DylanODonnell astro pixel processor has an option to align rgb channels after calibration and before normalization. It helped me tremendously to reduce chromatic aberrations from my old Nikon 400mm f3.5 and on Reflector subs with near horizon targets here in Germany like the Eagle Nebula. If you do synthetic luminance from rgb for lum sharpening this also helps to tidy things up.
Hi ! I wandering if the 1h00 expusure is 1 frame or 60 frames of 1 minutes expusure that you stack to get 1h00 expusure ? Sry if i'm asking, i'm not sure i get the info watching the video :) Thx again for your sharing ! have a good day !
Longest I have gone is 300s, but that was from Bortle 6/7 skies and just for fun. Now I shoot from Bortle 2 skies, I might end up shooting much longer.
Lord don't get an EQ6R pro. Nothing but problems. I'd get one of the Ioptron mounts. I made a mistake getting the EQ6R Pro. They must have Americanized them because mine came like it put together on Friday afternoon at quitting time. Grabbing it at the top it wiggled. I found a way to fix that. Then it was slipping all the time in RA axis. I think I fixed that. It was balanced and I couldn't understand why the guide star just suddenly streaked across the screen. Well the mount was slipping in RA. Too much grease was on the screw that is supposed to keep it from slipping.
g`day dylan is the CGX out the door after only 3 years i thought the mileage would of been better ... so what mount are you going to buy ???? what brand are you looking at and are you going for a mount of higher spec than the chineses brands the plainwave mounts look cool the neighbours would think its a missile launcher lol if you have deep pockets ... what will you guestermate your budget will be for the new mount and will you buy celestron CGX again as a straight replacement ?????? was the CGX worth the nearly $4000 dollarydoos for 3 to4 years use ????
@@DylanODonnell dylan your mount has had a hard life.. everything no matter the brand wear out or need fixing after a while have you looked at a complete strip and rebuild and bring it back to speck.. i think its your bearings getting tight(motors and main pivots RA DEC) from moisture in the dome a bit of rust / dirt /ant bodys from the great ant attack last summer lol old grease.. look how much it improved over a few months ago after you did the belts adjustments .. mounts need love too .. a few hundred in bearings(at a industrial supply) might save ya thousands in a new mount or new gear is always nicer.. hope you keep us informed in your thinking and the process and outcome because its the heart of any imaging system is the mount cheers james D
@@DylanODonnell well that counts me out if you need skills just to buy it.. i am schultz..i know nothing .. i am at the stage i have been basically priced out of the hobby if i want to advance anyway .(i need a mount and a bigger sensor camera etc) the zwo asi290mc just don't cut it for widefield lol cheers james D
High Point Are My Guys,Think You Knew That,lol.Hell I Might Even Get a Christmas Card From Dave😂😂😂Its Snowing Here,Super Cold,We Done a 30deg Difference Over Night,Stay Safe,and Clear Skies❤️🙏🏻🔭🌏🛰
Soooooooooo if somebody had perfect guiding, they could take a long exposure of multiple hours from rise to the meridian or meridian to set. Imagine capturing a whole night of astrophotography in 2 pictures.
I recently got two defective CGX-L mounts in a row from Highpoint. The first mount started out working very well. within a week it had problems tracking. The mount would take a big leap in Dec and wreck an image. I sent it back and got another from them. The second CGX-L had egg shaped stars from the beginning. They were worse than yours are in this image but identical in shape. I contacted Highpoint who got hold of Celestron. Celestron sent me a two paged typed set of instructions on how to make an unguided guided log. It took all night but i got it done. 4 days later they wanted the mount back. You should not have to pay for that mount. The error has something to do with the teeth on their gears. It looks like there is a 21 second error that is bad. The belt sticks in the teeth of the gear it looks like to me. Celestron has manufacturing problems with all the covid issues going around. I think they second sourced their motors and possibly some other parts of their mount. Good luck with your mount and thanks for the excellent streams. Try a 10Micron mount and don't look back!
Yeah id have to agree. Although i love most Celestron made products, the mounts have been their weakest link from what ive experienced and seen from other imagers. For instance i have the AVX(the newest model) and in the beginning it worked for the most part; i could easily get 5 minute, unguided exposures before i got any type of lines or eggs, that was with just a rough polar alignment(no polemaster). Now, after having the mount for a little over 2 months im experiencing trails and eggs. Ive noticed at times it would seem to skip while it was tracking, like it will slow down and then speed up or just altogether stop for a millisecond or two. Just long enough to cause little raindrops.. only on the best/luckiest of nights can i get anything over 2 minutes 😪 Celestron has officially broke my heart..
A few people in the comments want to know if short exposures will compare to the long one .. good question! I covered this a year ago here - ua-cam.com/video/EMdEhQD2WxY/v-deo.html
😎
I am still waiting for material about the lucky imaging technique...
Thanks for this comparison! It would be interesting to see your 1h exposure against 60 1min exposures...
The author from SharpCap did a fantastic speech about the length of single sub-exposures - fighting against the myth "the longer the better":
ua-cam.com/video/3RH93UvP358/v-deo.html
Love your videos, mate! Clear skies to you!
-Chris
Thanks for the comparison Dylan. I wish you had also included the iso settings of each exposure.
@@catchingphotons Everyone should watch that video before they take any images to really understand exposure, background, noise, etc. I use the formula given in that video all the time and generally stick close to it. Unless it says it would be optimal to do a 30min sub, I usually back off to 10min for clouds, satellites, etc. He does a wonderful explaining the actual physics behind it.
Yoo these glasses are pretty lit 😎 though I would never be patient enough to get an 1 hour exposure done but nice picture dylan
There's a great talk by Dr Robin Glover (of SharpCap) who goes in to detail about choosing good subexposure lengths. Generally, it's only worth going long if you have very dark skies or have a very (read) noisy sensor.
Folks would be shocked to know what they should actually use in light polluted areas! That video is amazing and worth the watch for anyone!
Your videos are getting better and better Dylan! They are making points in every frame. Like the long exposure analysis!
Dylan bringing his A game yet again! Comes up with the coolest video ideas, then really goes to town on the analyses! Side note: Did anyone else fancy a game of chess after watching the Queens Gambit?
Thanks for the catchy B-Roll music. Will be stuck in my head the entire day.
Thank you Dylan for all those good parts of light! Are you going to Chile on December? Enjoy life mean while!
Chile? I wish!
@@DylanODonnell Very welcome!
The music you choose is always fire. That opening track got me more pumped up than your pathetic redbull! Every one of your uploads is such a gem!
Thanks man ! 🤘🏼
I really need to sort out my guiding after seeing your 1hr image, I'm currently getting big eggs at 4 minutes. Roll on 2021 to start tweaking again! You deserve many beers after that...
I couldn’t believe it worked!
I know right.. talk about guiding being on point! Puts most of us to shame!.. well at least me of course lol
I don't do AP but, Dylan's intro is a great excuse to put on my Bose headphones.
Yep, all about having a dark background. Using narrowband = loooong exposures that will help most, dark sky = loooong. Lot of city lights and narrowband = long exposures. But if your sky background is up, it makes more sense to go for more and shorter ones.
The "extreme exposure' joke earned this vid a like.
Nice one mate... 💪... you now need to post reprocess 1, 2, 3 of the 3600s exp 😂, perhaps it will magically stack more data ... is that a small dehumidifier that you have inside the dome? ... I went for the helix a few weeks ago and was not happy with my image, I guess I have pushed my small wide field refractor at 420mm beyond its limits... even in mono with Ha and RGB... not an easy target to get right ... cool glasses 🤓
Yeh tiny dehumidifier.. was in a recent video about obs maintenance but it’s doing quite well :) cheap too.
Great vid Dylan!
I remember Peter Zelinka did a video on long exposure time (low ISO) vs short exposure time (Higher ISO) with a DSLR and he had great results with long exp time too. a lot less noise. So if you have a mount that's properly aligned and stable, and you have the time (clear skies all night 🤞) then definitely worth a crack!
keep up the good work! 😎
Very inspiring! I can see the difference between short and long exposures, even with the dslr! Thank you very much!
Great video Dylan. I’ll be trying this.
Just what I’ve been waiting and hoping for. Absolutely great. Thanks.
Doug
That 3D map tool is awesome. Very cool. Thanks for the video.
Not sure if that’s what it was meant for but it helped illustrate this point :)
Nice video! You filmed the intro with sunglasses that have a camera in them!
(EDIT: Answered directly after intro, before you mentioned it)
Great video - hope you're staying sane and keeping occupied during this pandemic!
Great video Dylan, I love all of your experiments. I have a lot of nights where the transparency sucks, that quick shot with the iphone is a great idea. Cheers Kurt
He is a bad influence on you Kurt....;)
@@dankahraman354 Ha Ha
I love your editing man 😉
8:55 World of Warcraft bluffs! perfect analogy, I know exactly what you are talking about now.
Super interesting stuff
Can we all take a moment to appreciate his utmost dedication to give most if not all of the comments posted a --> ❤
It makes this meaningless life of mine, just a tad bit more meaningful..
Besides.. i wanna top his record 1 hour exposures with a 24 hour exposure... 😎 🔭🌙☀️🌟
Who wears the shades now, pal?!
Haha thx Matt.. I try!
Great Video Dylan !! That was Really awesome👍 And Felt Amazed. Btw Clear skies☄🪐🔭🌌
Always love your stuff! Fun content & presentation. Cheers from a currently soggy Northern California
why is everyone watching the Queens Gambit right now?? LOL! Cool glasses btw.
You mentioned about getting a new mount. Aren't mounts supposed to last something like 25 years? How long does it take for a mount to die?
It’s such a good series! I’m pretty sure my mount is just not good enough for the 11” SCT
The Queens Gambit! Love the game love astronomy. -Beth "your the best i've ever played....." -Lil Russian Kid ".....until you play Borgov" I have never commented on your many videos that have helped me significantly "extremely" jealous of your Talents man. Clear Skies!
Hey thanks!
Thanks for a great video. A small child told me recently the, " everyting will be alright". I just smirked, because you and I know better. ;-)
Very cool. Now try stacking 60 one minute exposures and compare that to the one hour exposure? And maybe 12 5-minute exposures. How well does stacking account for those faint stars that were missing from the 1-minute shots? Etc.
See pinned comment :)
I'll stick with 512s, living next to an airport & all.
Lmao 😂 Thanks for the creepy shoutout. Nice little MIB intro. 👍 On another note, that 3:45 trick is much appreciated and finally answers why my photographs come out meh.
Love that outro
I enjoyed the video, but I think a more meaningful comparison is a stack of 60 1-minute photos vs 1 60 minute photo.
If you want to see high clouds or want to check for haze get yourself a Seek thermal camera for your phone, you can see even slight haze hanging arround against the cold space.
Never admit mistakes, deny - everything... M33 ... Baldrick !
Are you private Baldrick?
NO!
It's always best to blame it on the weather regardless of the mistake
Haha, new mount 😀 I’m going down the 10micron GM1000 hps path. Nice vid as well.
Great job as always Dylan. :-)
Thx Trev!
You had me at "World of Warcraft bluffs". Definitely a true statement once you get flying in the older content... Now if only I could even get something decent with 5 minute subs.
Coming back, I wish you'd stacked 100 1min subs vs 6 or 7 one hour subs to see the differences.
Wow. What a great video. Very helpful.
New mount?!? What are you looking to get?
Using 60 minutes on an F2 RASA would be more than interesting on that target
Hard agree
Dang the stars are pretty impressive for the hour long exposure. I was expecting a trail. Btw are you getting another CGX mount or something different? I'm having issues with the CGX as well. Thinking of upgrading to the CGX-L
Buy once. Buy good. Buy 10micron.
the world of warcraft reference just made my day lol
DANG dude I wish I had your level of skill!! Your amazing with your imagry!
Hah thanks Robert
I think we all wish we had his skill. For Realz
I actually prefer long exposure cos the noise reduction and image quality improvement is significant.
While I only have a star adventurer I've still managed to get pin sharp, noise free, 30 minute long exposures using a Zeiss Distagon 15mm lens on a Canon 5DSr to capture wide field images. Even had it up to 4 mins with a monster Canon 300mm f2.8L prime haning off it, at least 2.5kg over its payload limit and it still works! Anyway, thanks again for your tips and insights. Greetings from a relentless cloudy November in Scotland.
A very nice piece of work in a short video!! I have spent something like 10 years looking at the difference between LOTS of short subs versus a much smaller number of very long subs. In my early imaging days I worked with a Hyperstar on a C11 scope and used between 1-minute and 90-second subs. I typically took 100 subs on an object with an OSC CCD. Now the result was a beautiful, completely NOISELESS image, glassy smooth - but it did not go deep!! So using the Pleiades as an example, you got a beautiful glassy smooth starfield - but there was no sign of all the Taurus Molecular cloud nebulosity surrounding the region, and there was no sign of the bunch of faint galaxies around the top of the Pleaides. I then imaged the same region with an array of Sky90s and used subs up to 1-hour long. The Taurus Molecular cloud came through and so did the galaxies. Because I had a ton of shorter subs added in, the result was also glassy smooth. But there is a problem - it's not all win-win. The very long subs started to bleach out the colour - so the brilliant blue around Merope was bleaching out to more white, and the few very red stars in the region were also starting to lose their colour. If you mix the long subs with short subs (to get the colour back) then you also start to lose some of the Molecular Cloud. So what is my conclusion after 10 years of looking at this?? NOTHING beats LOTS of subs using VERY LONG exposure times, but you should limit your exposure time depending on the object. Also the minimum number of subs you should go for IMO for a World Class image is around 50 - but if you can get 100 then go for it. Putting this altogether it means that for a World Class image you will need at least 8 - 10 hours total integration time on an object. All this is true for my lousy rural skies of course - if you are blessed with truly dark skies, you can get away with a lot less, and you will also see a great deal more than me using a lot less.
I should add - if you include just one lousy sub with the other 99 good ones YOU WILL SEE THE DEGRADATION. So the other thing you MUST do is check every single sub carefully to make sure it is of good enough quality to add into the stack.
Yep.. less is more. Sounds like you’ve reached the same conclusions after years of experimentation also.
@@DylanODonnell It really all comes down to your sky background. 10 years ago I had terrible light pollution from all the Sodium street lamps I was surrounded by - BUT - the light pollution filter very effectively removed the Sodium lines - so to my CCD camera the sky actually looked pretty dark (which is almost impossible to believe if you took an SLR picture of the sky as it was brightly lit by a sickly yellow fog). Now all my street lights have been replaced by LED lights and at first sight the sky LOOKS much darker. If you now take a DSLR picture the sky seems quite dark and there's absolutely no yellow glow - BUT - the sky background is actually now FAR WORSE than when I had all the Sodium lights. Why? Because the broadband LED lighting cannot be filtered and overall there's MORE light pollution across all visible wavelengths than I had with my Sodium-filtered sky. I am now unable to go as deep in my imaging as I could 10 years ago.
Yeah after the Starlink constellation gets built out you won't want 1 hour exposure for sure. Hell we probably will be lucky to have a 1 minute sub without a trail. In fact planning software will have to take into account when a patch sky clear of satellites will be overhead so you can image. LOL
To be fair, Yous should test the same amount of overall exposure time for each site. 1x60min vs 100x1min (stacked). I think that would deliver more honest results :)
Surely you mean 60 x 1 minute
HI Mate, i will try 1hr sub tonight. Always something new from your videos. Loved it.i only hope my ccd dont blow up. Wish me clear skies.
Interesting- Longest I ever went was 20 minutes to see how many fuzzies I could get out of Markarian's chain. Interesting how the noise flattened out so much. I would be curious to see how gain and offset affect star saturation at an hour? Were you at unity gain?
Nice M33! Was that with your HaGB technique?
Yes G-HaGB :) the gain settings were the same for both exposure tests (not high, pretty low).
@@DylanODonnell I am surprised at that there was only one satellite in that hour- Helix is near the CE and there's usually more there.
Extreme exposer example at 1:19 made me spill my coffee 😂😂😂 u have gr8 senses of humour 👍🏻🤘🏻
Hehe
Wubba Lubba dub-dub!
Hi Dylan, I would like to see a comparison 60 mins vs. 60x1min stacked an if there is any noticable difference...
I have another video with that test :)
A 1 hour sub IS better than 60 1 minute subs under good conditions. The point of diminishing returns is at about the 10 minute mark.
6 10s would be as good, and possible better than a single 60. Under perfect conditions, very dark skies, stunningly accurate tracking etc, I hour subs would be great. The draw back becomes, from a technical glitch, a wisp of cloud. Imaging 4 hours of 4 60 min subs. Each sub is 25% of the whole session. I blown frame and it is a huge loss. Shoot 24 10s, and lose a few to what ever cause, and it is just a tiny fraction.
For us amateurs, great results from 1-5 minutes , with out the drawbacks. I shoot 2 minute subs for the conditions I face and am pretty happy. Not even possible to shoot 10s let alone, 1 hour. Sky conditions just don't allow for it.
Dylan - How good are Highpoint Scientific with Shipping? have found something on their US site that with Current Exchange rate is almost less than half the Local price - but concerned shipping might then end up tipping the scales...
It isn't for large Item - just .7x Focal Reducer for EdgeHD8 (which no-one has as Celestron are out of stock...) - so either way I have to wait, but might as well also get it at bargain cost...
I can’t use them except for special orders because they don’t ship to Australia generally!
I ordered my Evo Nexstar 9.25 SCT from them, and had it shipped within a week. From New Jersey to Florida. Don't know about overseas shipping, pretty sure that's where the price will hike up if you do. But definitely stick with High Point Scientific. They are awesome, knowledgeable, and have really good support (considering pandemic here). And make sure to drop Dylan's name if you order from them. They like knowing how you learned about them.
But if u live in Bortlie level 6 or more with out filters anything over 3 mins is not much good. Do you use the zwo air pro Dylan?
Yeh I’m at a dark sky area .. and no, I have a dedicated server so no need for air.
Ah ok
Yep, its about the sky background noise. No filter and city lights will swamp the sensor. So then it makes more sense to go for a loooot of data and shorter exposures (do check the histogram though, having a white image might not be an issue if it’s not clipping the sensor). But when using narrowband or being at a dark site, a very long exposure will outperform shorter ones easily as you get much better signal over noise.
awesome buddy, have a cold one..
yesssssssssssss nice vidio Mr. donnell really loved it
THanks dylan
Can you do a tutoial for what i asked plss
I'm having the same issue with my CGX-L mount. Tried hyptertuning the heck out it like your other video showed but still getting the issue. Does your mount randomly jump fast and do weird movements when slewing too?
No mine tracks ok but the ra wobbles enough that the stars aren’t 100% .. it’s a real concern and no one here can fix it.
Nice Video ! Are we starting to discuss Pixel Efficiency and Full-Well capabilities etc. ? Is this where the >$3K Cameras start to pull ahead of the Pack ? You mentioned a new Mount . Any hints or will that be a new Video reveal ? My bets are on a Harmonic Drive . Cheers . /SRK
So, will you eventually compare how 1 hour exposures vary depending upon the type of beer consumed during each exposure? I mean, with five minute subs, anything but a lite beer is likely to be disastrous, but in an hour, you've got much more time, so, stouts, or whatever should be possibilities, right?
That Star Stuff intro!!!!
Hi Dylan! At 8:26 it may be seen that the star has a lateral chromatic aberration. How high was the galaxy when you shot the frames? I am asking because I see a similar pattern in my photos and I wonder whether it was due to atmospheric dispersion or my refractor has optical issues since the target was between 45 and 70 degrees altitude and I thought that the dispersion should manifest itself much lower.
Can’t be that then.. this target is basically overhead at the zenith.
Hi: I come from the film side of astrophotography were exposes of 3 hours or more on hypered cooled film was the thing for detail before CMOS and CCD cameras were a thing.
Just subbed! Nice videos; would recommend you do one on ideal exposures for LP skies using CCD
Dylan wouldn’t know a LP sky if it bit him in his arse
Cool experiment. But I thought that the SNR depends only on the total integration time. Not on the length of the individual subs.
CS Christian
Talking about making wide angle photographs of the sky with a telephone, things are progressing quickly. Iphones have very lousy cameras. The high end Samsung are starting the be good. The Huawei P40 gives pretty impressive images of the Milky Way. The top is the recent model from Xiaomi, the Xiaomi M10 T Pro, it has a 108 megapixels camera, and the images on the sky are crazy. Very likely better than with an APS reflex camera. It can stack images and do star trails, I was quite impressed by this telephone. You ought to look into it.
Intro confirms Dylan as the next Terminator?
Good video,very interesting comparison. Please work on your sound mixing, the difference in volume between your voice and the music had me constantly turning it up or down.
Did you use a RASA for your test subs?
C11 f7 1960mm
@@DylanODonnell I thought so. I've been waiting for you to donate that C11 to me and you're still using it! lol
Just starting out. Thanks for the info in your videos.
I am so new I received my first telescope but still waiting for the parts to guide and attach the camera. I did get the Celestron CPC 1100 HD and the wedge.
Nah, that's not extreme :D How about extreme astro-processing. With a laptop strapped to you, you have to HALO jump from 35000 feet and process an astrophoto before you make it back down to the ground. If you don't get it finished by then, you have to then run through the rainforest, all the while working on the image, and then without breaking stride base jump off the top of Angel Falls. The image has to be finished by the time you get to the bottom :D If it's still not finished, you forfeit the $5million in prize money :D :P We can get Bear Grills to host the episode :D
I'd bump the mount 59 minutes in, guaranteed.
Dude you were supposed to take the photo facing the camera at 1:19 :( also when did you get a grey lab coat?
What software do you use for image processing and editing? Do you happen to have a video going through your method of editing the image after collecting data and stacking?
Pixinsight.. I do have a fairly thorough m42 processing walkthrough video :)
@@DylanODonnell thanks. I've got decent equipment and can collect good data. I'm still trying to learn what to do with that data and how to make a decent image though. Your videos have been entertaining and helpful.
are you using less gain over the hour to avoid blowing out the highlights or is everything just the same on the minute vs 1 hour ?
Ta
actually i think you answered that :)
Hehe yes :)
Only 1 satellite trail in the 1h exposure is pretty good
I reckon!
Its is your very low gain that is allowing a high dynamic range and low noise....what was your gain with the 1 hour (single) sub? What camera is it?
M33 looks just like that when I do my visual astronomy. 😎
My cgx-l does the same thing, they said its within specs. I wish i could of just bought the Eq8 you got, I could of put that 4k toward the 8k mount. I am stuck under 1000mm focal length. This sucks.
You talked for like 20 seconds and already earned an updoot ^^
Heh
@@DylanODonnell Your stars have like yellow tops and blue bottoms. I think you are already hitting atmospheric dispersion. You can also reduce star size by aligning the RGB Channels. Does anybody use adc for Deep sky ? I think it was only needed for planetary for "amateurs" (green eyed look to your manly aperture) up until now.
The histograms look pretty aligned but I’m sure there is a process to align them better .. not sure if it would work for OSC or not.
@@DylanODonnell astro pixel processor has an option to align rgb channels after calibration and before normalization. It helped me tremendously to reduce chromatic aberrations from my old Nikon 400mm f3.5 and on Reflector subs with near horizon targets here in Germany like the Eagle Nebula. If you do synthetic luminance from rgb for lum sharpening this also helps to tidy things up.
You're filming with your glasses! hahaha
I KNEW IT 1:01
Hi ! I wandering if the 1h00 expusure is 1 frame or 60 frames of 1 minutes expusure that you stack to get 1h00 expusure ? Sry if i'm asking, i'm not sure i get the info watching the video :) Thx again for your sharing ! have a good day !
Single subs no stacking :)
Time to go extra extreme, 24 hour subs lol.
Longest I have gone is 300s, but that was from Bortle 6/7 skies and just for fun. Now I shoot from Bortle 2 skies, I might end up shooting much longer.
HighPoint: the worst for honoring your warranty.
Also extreme... X-ray photo of the bullet cluster by Chandra X-ray Observatory. Exposure time was 140 hours!! 500000 seconds.
Awesome, how did you get your mount/guiding tweaked so well to get round stars with an hour exposure?
See my previous video on hyper tuning my cgx mount :) but basically as long as you are polar aligned and guiding ok you can go as long as you like.
If you have some extra money or rubed a bank you can buy good mount and do photos like Dylan😂
I would assume every 1 Hour Sub would have a least one satellite, meteorite, or airplane in it.
Lord don't get an EQ6R pro. Nothing but problems. I'd get one of the Ioptron mounts. I made a mistake getting the EQ6R Pro. They must have Americanized them because mine came like it put together on Friday afternoon at quitting time. Grabbing it at the top it wiggled. I found a way to fix that. Then it was slipping all the time in RA axis. I think I fixed that. It was balanced and I couldn't understand why the guide star just suddenly streaked across the screen. Well the mount was slipping in RA. Too much grease was on the screw that is supposed to keep it from slipping.
g`day dylan is the CGX out the door after only 3 years i thought the mileage would of been better ... so what mount are you going to buy ????
what brand are you looking at and are you going for a mount of higher spec than the chineses brands the plainwave mounts look cool the neighbours would think its a missile launcher lol if you have deep pockets ... what will you guestermate your budget will be for the new mount and will you buy celestron CGX again as a straight replacement ?????? was the CGX worth the nearly $4000 dollarydoos for 3 to4 years use ????
I know I know .. it’s just not handling these long focal lengths very well at all. Not sure if it’s All CGXes or just mine.
@@DylanODonnell dylan your mount has had a hard life.. everything no matter the brand wear out or need fixing after a while have you looked at a complete strip and rebuild and bring it back to speck.. i think its your bearings getting tight(motors and main pivots RA DEC) from moisture in the dome a bit of rust / dirt /ant bodys from the great ant attack last summer lol old grease.. look how much it improved over a few months ago after you did the belts adjustments .. mounts need love too .. a few hundred in bearings(at a industrial supply) might save ya thousands in a new mount or new gear is always nicer.. hope you keep us informed in your thinking and the process and outcome because its the heart of any imaging system is the mount
cheers
james D
Yeh I’ll sell it cheap to someone with more skills than me :)
@@DylanODonnell well that counts me out if you need skills just to buy it.. i am schultz..i know nothing .. i am at the stage i have been basically priced out of the hobby if i want to advance anyway .(i need a mount and a bigger sensor camera etc) the zwo asi290mc just don't cut it for widefield lol
cheers
james D
10 min RASA images should equal a 1 hour on your scope.... of course not the same pixel... thanks for share..
High Point Are My Guys,Think You Knew That,lol.Hell I Might Even Get a Christmas Card From Dave😂😂😂Its Snowing Here,Super Cold,We Done a 30deg Difference Over Night,Stay Safe,and Clear Skies❤️🙏🏻🔭🌏🛰
Interesting video but way too many adverts. I always try to support channels by letting ads run but not this many, sorry.
All auto generated.. I don’t set them. I pay for UA-cam premium so I never have to see em! Apologies for UA-cam’s aggressive ad rolls.
@@DylanODonnell Do you get paid if we watch all the way through or skip them ... just like to know as I'd gladly watch them if you're getting paid
@@gazza9839 skip away .. I don’t do this for the money :)
Yoooo....You can sell that Telescopic Water!!!
Soooooooooo if somebody had perfect guiding, they could take a long exposure of multiple hours from rise to the meridian or meridian to set. Imagine capturing a whole night of astrophotography in 2 pictures.
C'mon Dylan! You should have labeled the Triangulum Galaxy as NGC 253 just to go full circle!!
I recently got two defective CGX-L mounts in a row from Highpoint. The first mount started out working very well. within a week it had problems tracking. The mount would take a big leap in Dec and wreck an image. I sent it back and got another from them. The second CGX-L had egg shaped stars from the beginning. They were worse than yours are in this image but identical in shape. I contacted Highpoint who got hold of Celestron. Celestron sent me a two paged typed set of instructions on how to make an unguided guided log. It took all night but i got it done. 4 days later they wanted the mount back. You should not have to pay for that mount. The error has something to do with the teeth on their gears. It looks like there is a 21 second error that is bad. The belt sticks in the teeth of the gear it looks like to me. Celestron has manufacturing problems with all the covid issues going around. I think they second sourced their motors and possibly some other parts of their mount. Good luck with your mount and thanks for the excellent streams. Try a 10Micron mount and don't look back!
Yeah id have to agree. Although i love most Celestron made products, the mounts have been their weakest link from what ive experienced and seen from other imagers.
For instance i have the AVX(the newest model) and in the beginning it worked for the most part; i could easily get 5 minute, unguided exposures before i got any type of lines or eggs, that was with just a rough polar alignment(no polemaster).
Now, after having the mount for a little over 2 months im experiencing trails and eggs. Ive noticed at times it would seem to skip while it was tracking, like it will slow down and then speed up or just altogether stop for a millisecond or two. Just long enough to cause little raindrops.. only on the best/luckiest of nights can i get anything over 2 minutes 😪
Celestron has officially broke my heart..
Hey Dylan, why suddenly so much adds ... I get at least 8 of them !
I have no idea! I think UA-cam throws in more if I go over ten mins