Hotel key-card power switch teardown
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- This is the switch on the wall of hotels that only turns the power on to things like lighting and air conditioning while a guest is in the room. I was expecting this to actually sense an active card, but it's simpler than that, which also allows it to operate with a plain key identification card.
For some inexplicable reason I said LM324 (quad op amp) instead of LM358 (dual op amp) which I was thinking of. All the more impressive because I hardly ever use LM324s.
The modular approach to this design makes me wonder if there are other units that use the same power and relay base, but a different daughter board to implement other functions.
Although the instructions show the bezel and module as separate items, and mentions clipping the module into the frame, you can also just slide the front white plastic card holder up to remove it.
They win mega points for the main power PCB for robustness, electrical separation, and the decent relay. One slight twist could have been to shuffle the PCB and sandwich the thermal fuse between the relay's contact side and the MOV to add an extra layer of protection against burning contacts. The thermal fuse on the MOV transient suppressor is excellent. They tend to have an end of life failure mode of heating up, and a lot of products use them without allowing for that.
It would have been good to swap the positions of the power supply zener and decoupling capacitor to space the warm zener away from the electrolytic capacitor.
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This also keeps the channel independent of UA-cam's advertising algorithms allowing it to be a bit more dangerous and naughty.
This is the closest to a hotel experience I've had in a year.
I get daily e-mail from Choice Hotels, they really REALLY want people to start traveling again. Don't see it in my near future.
I wish I didn't have to spend so much time in hotels. During the early part of the lockdown the major hotel chains were shut. We had to spend a lot of time in 'dubious' hotels (I'm a key worker travelling around the country). It's so nice that Premier Inn and Holiday Inns are open for key workers now :-) I always put my IHG reward card in the slot to keep power on when I leave my room.
@@tncorgi92 and a good edit: apparently i posted this when i fell asleep but not gonna delete it
I've never seen one of those in a hotel in my life. Admittedly it's been a very long time since I've been in a European hotel, American hotels typically just have ordinary light switches.
@Cole Manpoto no clue hahaha. I always fall asleep with a video on but this is a first for me
Clive, I really appreciate how nicely you keep things in focus. And in good light. And with good commentary in a pleasant voice.
The power of keeping it simple! Highly effective. No $5000 pro video camera in a $2000/month "lab", and no 8 CPU Xeon render machine. Just a phone, printer, good lighting, oh and the biggest thing of all - talent.
Damn straight and very perfectly said.
I thought that was AvE commenting for a sec 😁
His smooth and warm voice is very calming for someone with anxiety, like me.
Thankies Clive! ♥️
@@Zadster Your comment nails it. Talent is key, and I think the 'no editing' actually helped to develop a very good style.
After discovering BCDC, eventually I also started to watch a few other streams. And then I got slightly annoyed with some of them (device out of focus half the time, bad lighting, commentary way too hasty, or too much 'fluff', or not enough in-depth, etc.). They are not totally bad, but now I appreciate even more how good the BCDC videos are.
This could have been more fun if you stayed at a hotel for a night and took the whole place apart...
I wholeheartedly concur with this comment 💯❤️‼️👍🏼👏🏼🤗
More expensive too
Do a collaborative video with The Lock Picking Lawyer or Bosnian Bill.
That reminds me of Alan Partridge when he took a trouser press apart but couldn't put it back together and he asked the receptionist to send up an engineer !
See DiodeGoneWild’s channel! He does exactly that!
The ones that actually read the room key magnetic strip are annoying, but can be subsequently shimmed afterwards with train tickets or more satisfyingly conveniently cut up hotel marketing BS.
Hotel marketing BS has magnetic strips?
@@chuckoneill2023 No, but it fools the switch into not realising that you've taken the card out.
Yep, magstripe ones they read once on insertion. Smart card ones typically require an ongoing connection, and these days are often networked so the front desk can say "sir you appear to have left it in the room. One of our staff will accompany you up and unlock the door for you".
Does any low-coercivity magnetic strip work or does it actually read the data on it to make sure it's from the hotel? If it doesn't I can just stick a MetroCard in it and it would work. I can't imagine they go through the trouble of programming every single one of these things to only read their own cards.
@@marc-andreservant201 I think there are both types. The door lock works by way of a wireless connection to a server, so the light switch could work just the same way. A bit more costly, but no special programming required. I read that the older door lock readers worked in a way that didn't need a wireless connection, but that made them much easier to hack.
I once stayed at a hotel in Dublin while we were organising a corporate event. The room was fantastic with a minibar that would have kept Ralfy entertained for hours. There were eight huge pillows on the king size bed and four more pillows in drawers.
I mentioned it to our driver who said it was a tradition at certain hotels to overstock the rooms with pillows. If a resident phoned reception asking for more pillows, the night manager would ask the guest to check all the drawers for the extra pillows. If the lonely guest confirmed that twelve pillows were still not enough, the hotel would offer to send up a prostitute.
Lol wut?
I was wondering about that. I didn't like the pillows and thought that housekeeping would show up. To my surprise, a different kind of housekeeper showed up with 2 huge pillows of her own.
I always found these things infuriating especially when I wanted to charge my laptop. Fortunately such hotels always provided a wealth of stiff card advertising their dubious offerings, that would work equally well to operate these wretched devices.
Some sensors now are now smart enough to know the difference between real key cards and odd bits of paper.
I keep a few extra old key cards from places I usually stay in my travel bag for just such occasions. (And possibly other mischief ;)
Just note: If you do this, put the "Don't Bother Me" tag on the door when your gone or else the housekeeping will confiscate your card and report you for extra charges. I learned this lesson a few times the expensive way :(
@@MyAvitech Yikes, that's a pretty crappy way to treat their customers. Fortunately never had that problem, though I do seem to recall they removed the paper I used to override it.
Will bear it in mind in the future though, just to be safe.
*Forgets to do something* "Well, that's kind of good in a way, because it shows why it's so helpful when I remember." Clive, your positivity is a lesson to us all!
If it involves unplugging, you'll remember real quick! 😂 👍
I think this was being sold off because they've gone to more sophisticated devices. Many hotel (and cruise ship) guests were just sticking business cards in these things. The upgraded devices actually read the presence of the magnetic strip or card chip. I think the cruise ships were using these before hotels, because electricity = fuel and they need to save every bit they can.
we used tear a bit of cardboard out of a leaflet or magazine and put that in it to keep the air conditioning on while we were out so we weren't coming back to a hot room
Yup, done that too. Very handy as they often give you the key card in a cardboard sleeve.
until room service comes in and takes teh cardboard out 🤣🤣🤣
@@Malandrin thats true - the cleaners would always remove the cardboard and throw it away, but that was always early in the morning, we just tore another bit of cardboard out and put it in the switch for the rest of the day
Every hotel Ive been in with these, has had a card still stuck in when I enter the room. Housekeeping never removes it. So not really worth anything.
Housekeeping staff don't want to bake/freeze either. Make sure to tip them for the favor.
@@markfergerson2145 Oh I do!
Never done that where I've stayed, but I have noticed reception seem to ask "do you want a second card" which always seemed odd at first as a single person booked into the room. Then I realised it was hotels with these that seemed to ask.
I get its a fire risk leaving things charging in your room (as they've always been on the sockets too where I've stayed), but when you're spending the weekend at a convention, when else am I supposed to charge spare batteries? Safer than doing it overnight while I'm IN the room.
So you could just use a pamphlet or some folded paper, but they probably told the guests that it only works with the key card.
I find it quite useful as a "where is the key card" device. Which I suspect is an important secondary purpose.
Or a business card.
I've not been anywhere that posh. Last place I went I was tempted to replace the light bulbs that had blown and fix the telly.
There are more sophisticated versions of these units that have proxcard detectors inside them to defeat the business card bypass. The universal bypass for these units is to simply ask for an additional room key at the front desk.
That's why this one is so cheap, the tech has moved on to something more sophisticated. Actually, these are more prevalent on cruise ships, because saving electricity = saving fuel.
I know that you've already explained that magic, but wow I still can't get over how clear those circuit pictures look. It's uncanny, I remember trying to get a decent picture for half an hour for a school project, if I knew that I could just cute a circular tupperware thingy and put a led strip around it to get incredible results, I wouldn't spend loads of time thinking about making a more didatic circuit design and stuff, it would've been a real time saver.
I learnt that hack a long while ago when I realised some hotel rooms turned off the heating while I popped out for dinner - one useless business card is always on hand for those situations when it works ;)
Or the other tip of asking for 2 room keys at check-in :D
Lots more inside than I was thinking. I thought a micro switch and relay with some safety bits added. 2x👍
I took my parents to Prague after sightseeing, back to freshen up before eating. Mum knocked on my door for help, so popped in their room and it was BOILING.
She used the hair drier in the morning and left it switched ON in the bathroom ALL DAY!!!
That alone is rather curious as hair dryers tend to have thermal cutouts, aren't they?
@@Vokabre It's possible given the fact that it happened in her mother's house that it was an old hair dryer that didn't have thermal cutouts
I thought it was standard for all hotel rooms in Prague to be boiling hot anyway!
@@Vokabre i would of thought so too. It was 20 plus years back. So I dont know if this wold make a difference?
@@farmersteve129 Vokabre i would of thought so too. It was 20 plus years back. So I dont know if this wold make a difference?
I hate those - nothing worse than getting back from something and find out your room is 80F because the AC shut down while you were gone or your laptop is dead because all the outlets shut off while you ate dinner...at least all the ones I have encountered you can jam any stiff paper in and forget it.
Also makes forgetting your card easy...tho at least its quick to get another from the front desk (and just leave the forgotten one in the switch)
"at least its quick to get another from the front desk "
Not necessarily, if you stay in hotels that accommodate flight crews.
I always insist on two keys - once bitten, etc.
I know a man who travels a lot. He said the new method is a motion detector in the room. He said a mylar balloon tied to a chair will keep them going. It does not have to have helium, just hang down and it will blow about.
How does that work when one is asleep at night ?
@@e.c.listening326 I don't know. good question.
I use the piece of card they give you with the room number on to keep the power on while I'm out 👍
I usually just shove my union card in there. At least some use out of it :-)
Same here.
That was a union card I was demonstrating it with.
I all ways imagined that it was just a switch that the card pushes on that turned a relay on .
Never been to the UK, yet, but had one of those in a hotel room in Singapore. With the incessant heat and humidity there, there was no way I was letting the aircon shut off for even a minute, so we left one of our keys in the thing 24/7.
These days it's not as hot as used to be 10 or 20 years back
@@chocolatejellybean2820 try going in the summer... 😉
The reason they've made the LED go out when you put a card in is probably so that it doesn't keep people awake at night if it ends up near the bed. It probably wouldn't bother me, but the hotel would presumably want to avoid as many complaints as possible.
Well, but when you put the key card in, doesn't that block the light from the LED being seen from outside the unit?
@@markfergerson2145 it’d definitely block some of it, but there’d probably still be a bit shining though. There might be other options where the LED does more too.
I'm thinking the LED might be to show the processor is "alive". That's more then just having power. Although, given the limited functionality, I'm not sure why it wouldn't be running if it's got power.
@@russellhltn1396 It's primary function is to help you find where to insert your keycard in a dark room. Other models have translucent plastic on the front to make it stand out even more.
@@firstsurname9893 That's right.
They often flash when you remove your card to warn you that the power is about to go off. I always carry a dummy card in my travel bag. Some sockets have a reed switch which is activated by a magnet in the card, so I also attach a thin magnet.
This allows me to keep the TV and aircon running while I'm racking up my travel expenses at the bars nearby.
So basically, it's a really overly-complicated switch... :P
That's all it is (with an optical interrupter), but it serves the purpose for European motels that are trying to save money on electricity.
You need a back emf diode on a relay because when inductance acts like mass:
“We can’t stop! It’s too dangerous! We have to slow down first!”
That's a good way to get a dented helmet.
@@soundspark yes, actually it does.
Can also use an MOV.
@@soundspark Low voltage isn't the problem. High voltage spike caused by releasing inductive load is the problem.
So no RF detector. Just stick a suitable opaque bit of paper or plastic in and the AC/heater will have your room nice and comfy when you get back. Keeping a light on may deter uninvited guests out as well.
I found some of those devices detected a magnetic strip so I used a one of those gas station points cards to keep the room powered on.
I used to pop a business card in it for laptop operation while I went down to eat or the gym
Until the cleaners come and remove it.
For datasheet, how about SH-69P801X? ( datasheets360.com/pdf/-3101768088239159638 )
I think, based on experience, some of those kind of switches are mechanical (based on microswitches i guess) as opposed to optical. I've seen some advertised online as being RFID card (or specifically Mifare) hotel room switches, but not sure if those really are rfid or just the sellers are using the terms for show. Might be a fun thing to explore i suppose.
As a traveller i have mixed feelings about this kind of switches.
Sure, it's nice to have everything turn on as you enter a room, but then there's an issue of how many hotels would also turn off power to the sockets in the walls, and that means that you can't leave stuff to charge. Sometimes, when i need to charge camera batteries during a day, i have to specifically scout if there's some sort of socket not affected by the switch (often in the bathroom).
And then there was a story of how i had a disagreement with a high tech toilet seat in one Japanese hotel. Every day i turned off the heating function, but every day it came on back again. Been very disappointed that my master's degree related to robotics can't fix this rouge ai, but then realised that the keycard switch was turning off the seat electronics, and that reset all the parameters.
Yes, I definitely seen mechanical because you feel resistance putting card in. Also there is NFC ones (13.56Mhz) growing in popularity, usually any nfc card like credit card or public transport ticket works for them. There should be also rfid (125khz), however I have not seen them. If sockets doesn't work without a card and there is no way around that, then bathroom or fridge socket can work. However fridge socket is usually hard to reach and room service would probably not be happy about that.
This device appears to be needlessly complicated to just detect if a card is present and switch a relay. I'm assuming it's not reading the metallic strip and any card will work.
Yeah, Clive didn't really explain what it was very well, I've never seen one of these. What a pointless device.
I believe that it's limited to a card that has to be within a maximum thickness, otherwise it won't fit. Which may limit it to a few specific kinds of cards that'd fit. A Credit Card wouldn't since it's got all the raised numbers. I imagine various other laminated cards also may not, due to that lamination adding just enough to make it too fat. Leaving things like the printed cards that are generally used at Hotels and Office buildings and attached to Lanyards.
At the beginning, you'll notice that Clive actually mentioned that these would be things that might be in a room and that it controls lighting, hence the 30s delay, and also the lack of any security (reader) circuitry. If all they are using it for is an "inconvenient" way to eliminate a physical toggle switch to control what-have-you, then they've succeeded perfectly. Because anyone can still operate it, except juveniles (mentally) that just want to wave their hand over the switches to cut the lights on folks, now need to carry some sort of dense paper to slot in there :P
In other words, it's a more modern equivalent to the similar "tamper" switches that needed a unique """key""" that got shoved in a slot and that then functioned as the lever to activate the internal switch. My elementary school had them (80s-90s for me), and only the Janitor and certain teachers had that """key""" to operate the lights. They even worked with dimmers.
And... actually, now that I think about it! Those """keys""" -- which I quote that way because it's not a tumbler sort, as it's similar to these cards in anything that'd fit the slot likely would suffice -- I think were forked at the end... and I bet that what it actually was, is essentially a "cover" for a conventional toggle switch and that "fork" would slot around the lever arm of an every-day off the shell switch. Same with dimmers, since most of them in commercial settings (in the US) were always a slide instead of rotary and they just had a lip that indicated its position. So those same forks would similarly catch on the lip and allow for adjusting the dimmer. :D
**whistles** Sorry, rambled there!
*TL:DR -* They're just to provide an inconvenient way to function as a switch (lights, etc) so that the average joe can't go in and turn something off, or similarly, so a genuine accident doesn't cause them to get turned off (something falling or brushing against). Most people, even if you didn't work there, would still have a means to operate it (ie a business card I figure would suffice), in case it really needed to be done... but not intended as a security device like we're used to seeing them.
[/end speculation]
_EDIT: goddamn do I hate YT's Markdown, it is so damn picky on where the characters can and cannot be to format text..._
probably more to be a door solenoid controller or an ice machine. Pretty much useless as far as security goes, but it makes people think it is secure.
@ Granted, my AmEx does not have raised. However, I have 2, one is a joint account and when we got the new card, it's a metal-plastic two layer monstrocity lol Which is, as a result, thicker than the all-plastic version, but only just: 0.036-inch vs 0.032-inch. (Both still contain the smart-chip, and mag strip; only the Plat has the RFID though).
I admittedly had been thinking of my Visa-Debit/ATM card when I typed that, as that's just the one that gets used the most. It's ye olde school kind (undoubtedly because cheaper machinery) with raised numbers/letters; smart, magnetic, sans RFID
So I conceed that the majority of CC's will most likely be printed, you're right. heh
Which fort that matter, given the rate of manufacturing and ubiquity of that sort of card now, I suppose it's also unlikely that any company would go through the trouble of having a badge (ID or keycard) made at a special thinner thickness, just to further deter tampering. By that time, might as well just use a Smart/RFID card! lol (However, they still might, if in the past they've had lots of issues with mag-readers flaking out or strips demagnetizing, and has left a sour taste in their mouth making them reluctant to use the way-more-reliable Smart chips **shrug**)
I always assumed that these had some sensing to detect an active card.
I've been on hotels that uses NFC to check if it's a valid card, of course there are NFC locks in the door. After it didn't accept my library card, I found out that it checked for NFC when it started, and then I swapped card in the slot without trigger the switch off and on and it worked.
I've always used an expired ASDA gift card.
I used my Nectar card to keep the fan in my hotel room running a couple years ago.
I've once been to a hotel which had a snapped half of a telephone card already preinstalled in all rooms in those things lol
So far all the ones I have encountered you can shove any piece of paper in
LOL Lap aren't exactly known for producing quality reliable products!
Big Clive, I come to you with an issue that many viewers on the UA-cam community interested in this genre of content. We would like to know the status of Photonicinduction, whether or not he plans to return to posting content. Is he alive and well? I would like closure as would many other viewers, please help.
Dave from the eevblog recently mentioned it in one of his video's. I tried searching it but i could not find it. He is in fact alive and working on some projects. He mentioned he is working on some video's. Very good news!
Andy's fine. He may return at some point.
Can you do a hotel door lock for your next one? Somewhere there is a hotel missing one of those card readers.
I think Lock Picking Lawyer did one a while back.
Everytime I come across these things, I put the key card in alongside a business card and remove the key card. So far it kept the power on everytime.
I bet this would fool even more modern detectors. Even if it needed full authentication by reading the card, I doubt its "continued-presence detection" could be as advanced (since you can't read & verify a magnetic card that's not moving).
So, I'd never encountered one of those before, then I'm at a hotel and I'm walking around wondering how to turn the power on, there am I in like a 4 star hotel looking for a fise box because nobody told me, the card goes in the hole 😅
Its only when I'm thinking, what's this weird light switch, and saw it had a slot in there, roughly the width of a card, I thought of sticking the damn thing in there... I think this was finally in day two I got it working 😅 and the air conditioning turned on and froze my ass off, can't win!
This product is best described as: Awkwardly inconvenient presence detection.
I usually just put a used metrocard or something in the slot during my vacation, so i don't have to forget my keycard :P
Have a great night everybody 👋
That is an old type most need the proper key card which is a pain when you want to leave your camera batteries charging while your out.
Why spend money on the expensive proper card reader in every room? If someone smart enough to bypass switch with another card to charge batteries he probably smart enough to switch off lights and everything else.
In the USA they don't use them. The cleaning staff I guess turns the heating cooling off on the independently operated wall thermostat. I don't see the point of this device. Anyone who gets into the room should have control of the environment, I can't see much savings by regulating the room temperature for just a few hours while the guests go to the amusement park.
It all adds up, especially as its the lights and often the sockets too. I do also wonder if its partly a fire safety thing by not allowing you to leave batteries charging when out of the room.
wouldn’t a microswitch be simpler and cheaper?
A microswitch wouldn't give the turn off delay, that could be important for disabled people.
@@Milamberinx The switch would just be an input to the microcontroller, same as the IR eye
@@Milamberinx well indeed - but I dont recall ever using one in a hotel that had a delay.
@@mrb692 but that wouldn't be simpler or cheaper. Eliot specifically mentioned simpler and cheaper.
@@Milamberinx I think it comes down to underestimating how dirt cheap the sensors are since they seem much more complex compared to a switch.
I just mounted such card switches last week. But as a completely mechanical version. (Of course I took a closer look at them. It's just a "normal" push-button for the light installation, where only a mechanism is mounted on it that mechanically pretensions the push-button so that the thickness of the card is sufficient to actuate the push-button). It can also be operated with other cards without any problems. (e.g. identity card, driving licence, credit card, etc.).
wow 1800w, key card kettle!
or a high power baby cooker.
IKEA has a drawer lock that actually uses RFID and is about 20 dollars. It can even be taught to use an RFID card that you might already own! --- It's the ROTHULT Smart lock
I've stayed at several smaller Australian country town motels that use a much simpler method - standard light switch with a cover that holds the key "card" (large plastic chunk) in a way that toggles the switch as it goes in or out. These places also use standard door keys.
First time we came across it, we removed the key from the plastic card so we could leave the card inserted.
Second time, we got a bit more clever and simply pushed a knife down into the slot to manually toggle the switch.
:O where did you get that pink screwdriver? I've only ever seen red and black ones
eBay. It has every colour.
Had one of these, solved the issue with a half used tube of toothpaste.
Been taking stuff apart since I was 8 years old. It's the putting back together that has me stumped!
Now we know we can just shove a bit of paper in it to trip it. Hotel hacks.
This is significantly more complex than the one I last inspected.. which was basically a microswitch and a bypass cap.
Do you could switch the relay with a strong Neodymium Magnet?
Oh yeah wouldn't surprise me having seen the lock picking lawyer. Might be worth keeping a magnet on my keychain and see if it would work as a key holder next time I am in a hotel
I was more curious about the method of security encoding. From what has been revealed in this video it looks like you could put the card key in any door in the hotel and it would trigger unlock. Great for swingers but not for those who want privacy.
Edit: Now I see that this is not for the door but for activating the amenities inside the room. Still my first thought when I thought it was for the door is strangely appealing.
Interesting. Wonder how many of these types of things have just a simple IR notch in them... Like you said not really used for anything critical but still would have thought there would have been more than "something in the way" inside
Oh, you do know how I am a fan of your visual aids. A detail often overlooked by even your ardent supporters.
You are far to patient, but in a good way. A hammer would have discombobulated that plastic and left you the entrails maybe intact. Plastic clips are an annoyance. Screws are ok. Clips break and never re assemble as original
I thought this was the magnetic one that actually unlocked the door for entry. But not disappointed as usual :)
Wow so it doesn't even read the mag strip? That's pretty ghetto.
These really got in the way of me leaving stuff to charge during the day, back when I used to travel to Europe... But, with usb C pd charger most recently I have been able to charge things pretty quickly, at the possible peril of my battery life.
Lot of little plastic bits in that, must be required for safety regulations or I'd assume they would have optimized them out.
That sensor looks just like the cheapo eBay beam break sensors they sell on break out boards for Arduino usage
Steve Summers gave you a shout out and good Phrase on his vid today
I normally use whatever card I have in the wallet, the RAC, Nando's and generic advertising cards have all worked.
So the card provides no security at all - anyone in the hotel can get in, and so can anyone from outside with a card of the right dimensions - while on the other hand if the power is off or that resistor fails you can't get into your room at all. I don't see this as an advance on mechanical keys.
It's not the door lock. Just a switching system that powers the room while you are in it, when you place your card in the slot.
I wonder how many random cards the room services find in vacated rooms.
I have an old expired ASDA gift card I keep for this very reason.
@@zh84 I have worked in several London hotels and there is nothing to read card info on the power saving switch think of it as a master electric switch for room... Most hotels have lights and air con on it but leaves sockets on just in case guest is charging something. Any card shaped object will fit in there and activate it.
Guest keys can't open other guests rooms with their own for example key 84 can't open door 82. Unless programmed to do so by front desk normally for families with 2 rooms, but this has to be requested by guest. Battery dies the lock stays shut and retains data. But if you are worried try any card in the door lock and it won't work. Extra info not relating to your question is What data does the keycard have on it... Time and date of issue, who issued it and sometimes terminal card was encoded , room, guest last name (system dependent), serial number of card and date and times cards are valid from and expiry data
As for room service comment from Clive, we find credit cards, loyalty cards, other hotel keycards are common... And on one occasion one of those phone box cards that advertise service of disrepute ..... But that's nothing compared to what we have to log as lost property which would raise a few eye brows .. ;op
I always bypass these things with a couple of business cards...
Hey big Clive do you like lasers? If you do I'd like to see a tear down with schematic and reverse engineering.
I actually like these things, I am the type that "looses" the hotel key card in the room and this is the perfect way to prevent that.
your card collection agrees
It is amazing to see PICs in almost everything these days - so many opportunities for firmware to go bonkers in unexpected ways. I was just thinking: in the old days, this device would have been done with a Microswitch to turn on a little heater wrapped on a bimetallic strip contactor to implement the exit delay / short-cycle lock out function. The friendly orange glow would have been done with an NE-2 neon bulb. Sometimes engineers get carried away with making devices complicated just because they can, rather than to make devices better.
So I could have broken into the rich American's room next door & stolen his oil well deeds? Damn................. (10 mins later...... Just noticed it's a power switch, not the entry lock); so then, what's the point of that?
This guy deserves some million subs. GREAT EXPLANATION THANKS!!
It's just using the photo sensor to see if a card is blocking the infrared beam? So you could block that beam with anything and it would stay on permanently?
Not sure if it has software that detects something like that.
Ever have one of those 🤦♂️ moments where you know you ought to have the answer, but just don't? This card switch reminds me of my best one yet. Work flew me across the pond to Geneva a few years' back to look at an issue that cropped up at an international customer's site. Being American, and never having been to Europe prior, I'd never seen one of those card switches before. Got to my hotel room, jet lagged, set everything down, and proceeded to try to turn on the first light I could reach. It didn't work. Figuring the lamp was out, I tried two more... which also didn't work. I should note here that I'm a modestly technical person, having lived with computers all my life. You can then imagine my embarrassment having to call down to the concierge desk, and ask how to turn on the lights in my room. Sigh. The hotel staff were very polite and cordial about it, talking me back to the room entrance where this card switch was. But, I can just imagine the conversation after the phone hung up... 🙄🤣
They're probably used to it.
In some hotels, they do explain it. But some places just assume you know...
Excellent as always Clive me ol’ mate -;)
Bob
England
Without wishing to sound depressing, I suspect the reason these were so cheap is because hotels aren't exactly flush right now - possibly just dumping the stock that no bugger in the hospitality trade can justify buying/installing.
(sorry, have a few chums in the hospitality trade who have been proper suffering the last year)
The reason why they're cheap is because to keep a reasonable appearance, hotel rooms are refreshed every 5-7 years, where all the high-touch points like switches and faucets get changed, and at approximately twice that, the whole room is gutted and refinished. Therefore, this doesn't need to have a lifetime more than 7 years.
@@straightpipediesel that's also a good point I suppose. It's not like a domestic light switch or wall socket which would have an expected service life of 20+ years or something, so there's only so much engineering that would need to go into them to make them last that (at best) ten year window.
European hotels use those things to confuse Americans 😁
can confirm. We were genuinely confused when we arrived at our hotel in Paris lol
I normally just leave a piece of paper in these when I go out so that I can leave the AC on in hot countries, never been pulled for it so I guess the cleaning staff don't get paid enough to care and probably appreciate walking into a cool room.
They probably care about their employers as much as the employers care about them.
Most excellent! I do enjoy modern card tech.
Actually Clive after a relay has been activated, you can almost cut the voltage to half its initial value. I usually use a resistor in parallel with a capacitor in series with the relay to drastically reduce the amount of heat in the relay coil.
Never seen or hear such a switch
The local no tell mol motel. Doesn't have fancy switches.
Be glad the locks work and there won't be a drug raid went you are trying to sleep. 😘
Think it depends on where you are, I've stayed in hotels in China, Vietnam, Thailand, and Singapore, and they all have this type of key-card switch in hotel rooms.
@@michaelturner4457
USA at a motel 6 wannabe 😬
Simpler to just have a microswitch operated by the card mechanically...
True but then the delay before turn off becomes harder to implement.
@@eDoc2020 yeah. I guess a resistor and a capacitor is considered “difficult to implement” by some less skilled in the art. 🤦♂️🤦♀️🤦
@@kimsmoke17 You'd need at least a resistor, capacitor, transistor, relay, and some sort of power supply. That's much more complicated than just running all the current through a microswitch and omitting the electronics.
My darling wife tells me she could have saved you the trouble of the teardown and just pointed you to the cruse ship tips and trick board that tells you to bring an extra card of any type to leave in the slot so you don't come back to a stuffy room. Yeah if you try this kind of cheap trick SOMEONE is going to just jam a piece of card stock in there to see what happens, even better though is that now they have a week to share the information with a captive audience.
The cruise ships are more concerned with saving electricity, since electricity = fuel. I think the current generation of this device is much more sophisticated, and actually reads the chip in the card.
@@chuckoneill2023 I'm sure the current generation of key card interlock devices are more advanced but the current generation of cruse liners (last 5 years) use proper motion sensors and contactless wristbands that double as payment cards (yum yum delicious data) at least with Carnival Cruse Lines. Not to mention, when has the cost of updating ANY barely functioning piece of industrial equipment (hospitality and entertainment is an industry, Clive can speak first hand) been worth it to the higher ups?
Interesting, I don't believe I have ever encountered such a switch here in the states. Hotel keycards are common enough, of course, but what's the point of this exactly? Energy conservation? Here in Florida, many hotel rooms have switches on the balcony door and/or motion sensors on the thermostat to enable the AC; I'm guessing something like that?
By the way, the INNCOM thermostats which seem to be the most common can be overridden by placing them in VIP mode. While holding the DISPLAY button, press the OFF/AUTO button, then press the UP button, and then release DISPLAY. The LCD will display "VIP" or "dON" depending on the variant. This procedure may need to be repeated each day as the thermostat will eventually automatically revert back.
Derek of Veritasium just made a vid about planned obsolescence with lamps and really didn’t know about Dubai lamps. He called leds “everlasting light bulbs”🤷🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
The MCU is a 4-bit device with 2kB ROM, 123 nibbles (!) of RAM, and an "8-level stack." I found it by looking up "SH 69P801" without the 'X'
I’ve seen those only in Europe. I think that my first was in Birmingham in 2018. Maybe they’re catching on in the USA now - I haven’t traveled much since the pandemic hit - but not in my experience. Yet, anyway. You can still leave stuff on when you’re not in your room.
But I did visit London uk and that one can only be used with the keycards they give you(lucky they gave me and my family 4 cards)
Hi BigClive! Lidl have a selection of 'craft' tools as of today in their Sunday section, all of which claim usb c charging. I bought myself the hoover for the car, but I've found that their usb c cable has no data, it just provides 9V to whatever poor device happens to be plugged into it....
They are also selling usb c bike lights, that I can only see popping if you gave them this charger.
I think you need to see if it can switch on a supercomputer... with lots of blinky blue LEDs. I think you should rest it and see if it can handle an 800W inductive load, or if it’s just marketing wank. If it passes, try an 800 MW inductive load. 😋
"One moment please..."
I don't know if you'd get a copyright strike but you really should play a TARDIS sound at that point.
...also, it never ceases to amaze me at the cheapness of the construction of these devices and yet what tricks they miss to truly eliminate cost from the unit. Daughterboards and LED boards on the end of wires are a cost nightmare even if you are assembling these things in a cheap 3rd tier Chinese factory (which you shouldn't do if you want to ensure safety and quantity of output).
I always bypass these by using any random card I don't mind potentially losing. Smart switches i bypass by asking for another room key. "I accidentally left my card in my room, could I grab another one?" I then promptly shove it until the switch.
Some housekeepers remove it, but most don't. Probably because it gets very hot in Australia and they may appreciate doing their job in the air con. I do this to keep the air con going on hot days, but also just to keep my gear charging and whatnot. Thankfully hotels are removing this crap, it seems, so you can keep stuff plugged in and charging while you're away.
Interesting...It's not actually reading data from the card. So you could activate it by inserting any old used up "gift card", or a piece of cardboard/thick paper like a business card for example (as long as it blocks enough light).
Thanks for the videos Clive and for the livestreams. Had foot surgery and the weather is crap, not much to do so it's perfect timing that UA-cam has brought me these.
(Just wish the doctor would okay some Dark & Stormys!)
nice
I remember using my TESCO club card in these switches in one of the hotels we were staying at because of an university event
The ones in the hotel I stayed at in Thailand didn't work that way. You had to use the room key to turn the lights and AC on. It was very annoying because it was the hottest time of the year and the room was over 90F when I get back to it. I tried using my Drivers license to turn the Ac on and go down to the bar for a drink while i waited for the room to cool off but it didnt work.
Funny story, a hotel In a renovation installed these devices. City building inspectors came in and didn't approve of them. Regular switches had to be installed before their occupancy certification was issued. The devices were never approved in local building / fire code. So in the HRM you won't find these.
Love that you said Op Amp.. I was thinking the same. In the world of big Clive maths 555 x2 = 556. Old buggers.
Of the dozens of hotels I stayed at across China, only a couple of these would accept other material (cards). The cards were all programmed at the front desk for the room AND checkout time, denying access if past the time. I'd love to see the inner workings of the card programmer... Clive?
How do I send stuff to bigclive for a teardown? I have a Orange micro guitar amplifier that the my son claims he didn't plug the wrong power supply into, but it now won't work on any battery or power supply. I'm not looking for a fix, just a post-mortem.
I always get 2 key cards and seldom use more than one. Easy to just leave one in the switch. With a bit of pre-planning, you can take any old card/keycard in your luggage and leave the A/C on when you are out of your room (you environmentally insensitive bastard!)
I have never stayed in a room in the states that didn’t use magnetic, smart card it prox card systems, seems extremely insecure!
This is not the door entry system it is to control the room power once you are inside. Typically they are on the wall near the door as you enter the room.
I work for a major hotel chain in Brisbane Australia that shall remain unnamed for just over 17 years now I remember when my old hotel put these in many years ago these switches also act to help save power between guests so that lighting and air condittioning primeairley do not run when the room is not checked in. Fun fact- these switches gently only controll the bedroom/main room lights AND NOT the bathroom so so as to not accerdently leave someone say in the shower late at night finding them selves in the dark if someone else leaves the room with out realising there in the bathroom . This video was very interesting viewing!
* for any one who may know who I am or where I work- " the above comments are mine and mine alone and DO NOT Represent a view held by my employer or hotel chain or company advice from either." ( first time I've ever had to do that- hope I got the wording correct lol )
David Young 36 Brisbane Australia
English only please Clive I dont speek American ( A,Lum.e UM) English (alli,mini,um)
When they in China manufacture their MCs and don't really provide a meaningful datasheet in English, this makes me think it's not supposed to be exported as a standalone product and also probably indicates a clone of a worldwide market product.
I may be totally wrong about it, but for me it makes sense.
I usually carry a blank dummy card to jam into these switches, to be able to run AC or keep chargers for computers or phones running, once or twice switches have been "smart", i.e. actually required the actual swipe card for the door.
The ones that I've seen appear to just be a switch lever that the card causes to open/close depending upon whether it is inserted or not. Often, a piece of paper is not thick / stiff enough to active the switch, but if you fold it a few times or use some thicker card stock, it would work... The irritating thing about these switches is when they also control the air-conditioning... If you use your room key like the **intend** for you to do, you'll be taking it with you when you leave the room which will mean that the room will be uncomfortably warm / humid when you get back to the room, possibly many hours later... As such, I would always put some card stock in the switch and tell the hotel that I did not need the room cleaned / made-up each day...
13:08 The LED on the front will (appear to) go out anyway with the insertion of the card, as the card slides in front of the LED blocking it, I think electronics are sometimes over engineered by the manufactures just for the shear hell of it and to make more money if it goes wrong. Nice interesting video Clive Thanks.
In many hotels these can be defeated with anything that will fit. In some, however, they are more sophisticated and an actual active key card is needed. These things can be a pain if you need to charge portable kit while you're out - even if you have something to leave it on, the cleaners frequently take them out when they leave the room, so your charging can be interrupted. Different hotels also have different things controlled by these. Some have the sockets "always on", others might have just one "always on" socket (or appliance plate) to which the alarm clock is connected.
So when will we see the cheap knockoff where they eliminate the micro, relay, power supply, and LEDs, and just provide a metal card and some mains contacts in the slot?
Good luck with finding anything modern with discrete circuitry in it, when even a keychain torch has a micro in it. Of course then because they can, they feel compelled to write software with a stupid strobe or SOS function in it, that you have to go through every time you turn it on or off.