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you endorse strangling western energy production while praising China's energy grid. Tell me you're a propagandist without telling me you're a propagandist. At the very least you believe none of the words you're saying. You can't be trusted.
Roughly about in 1980 they did the math and 1MV DC would have made sense in the USA if one line ran coast to coast with taps along the way. UHVDC is way more economically efficient and energy storage wasn't an option. Load time shifting and redundancy cost savings would have paid for it. We didn't get it because regulatory approval and getting public easements looked impossible. Getting public easements is very hard in USA. Try to imagine some sort of mercury vapor vacuum tube inverters because UHVDC switching transistors were not a thing yet, with no wind or solar planned in the mix, and you understand how long ago that was. It's made $$ sense a long time.
Just because China has central planning doesn't mean it doesn't send officials to discuss and consult with affected people what the purpose, impact, and compensation will be. My dad got a free flat in the city when they tore down his village home for development. It's like a company making a policy change. It still has to discuss and consult about the impacts with affected employees even though a company is "centrally planned". It's just a matter of degree. Otherwise, nice video.
Mm… when they decided to tear down the hutongs of Beijing for the Olympic Games, there was not much of consultation going on. They just did it. easily found for anyone willing to look into. Just type in Google: hutongs destruction for Olympic Games China. You’ll bump into plenty of articles published in various countries about it. NY Times, for example: “Olympics Imperil Historic Beijing Neighborhood July 12, 2006” The Guardian: “Olympics blamed for forcible removal of 2m over 20 years” And many others.
Brazilian here :) Brazil has 90% of Electric Energy from Clean/Renewable most because the National Grid. Because our country is huge and ALWAYS is raining somewhere, so the National Grid guarantee that the Energy will always be available Nationwide, no matter the place is being generated. With the MASSIVE new investments in Wind and Solar, even in extremely drought Years, the System will be secured without the need to use of coal to fulfill the demand, and we are capable to export Energy from Colombia in the north to Argentina in the south.
In 2017, a Chinese company built a 2,000-kilometer ±800KV UHV transmission project for the Murray Hill Power Station in Brazil, and this year it will build another 1,300-kilometer line.
@@davieb8216 climate is likely unpredictable in long run and energy security is important, countries have to be prepared for the most unlikely scenarios
Brazilian here too. And also depending on the UHVDC power capacity, it allows hydroelectric dams to work as kinect energy batteries (by reducing the water flow) when wind and solar are at full power in other connected states. Maybe China is also thinking about it. Even though the Chinese Three Gorges dam has 22,5 GW (installed capacity) and Brazilian Itaipu 14 GW, both annual production are relatively similar, due to rain variations in China.
Correction: China has one single time zone: the whole country uses Beijing time. If they insisted on 1200 local time being when the sun was overhead then yes, they'd need the five time zones they used to have.
As a Chinese I'm not sure if I'm right or not, as far as I know for example, most of the electric power companies in the US are divided by states and there are too many of them, so it's difficult for them to peak the power resources between different states, and the power equipments are aging.However, China's power system is completely deployed and peaked by the national power grid in general.This makes the entire country's power grid run very efficiently.
@@boweihuang3246 Even though states each have their own local power grids there is still a national power grid. States realized a long time ago that interconnecting with each other just made their own grids more reliable. The only state that doesn't do this is Texas. Texas has refused to join the national power grid and remains independent.
China also has several separate AC grid throughout region. But those grids also exchanged power (in long distance) via HVDC. They got 2 birds with one stone.
China had the most UHVDC, the most high-speed railway lines, the most EVs, the most 5G base stations in the world. Seems China is just ahead of everybody!
They don’t that good cause they military not dominant like USA the only they can is passively play in Asia and don’t have much impact cause if they gonna do anything USA can bring EU and JP&SouthKorea easily cause they case is on JP. The real problem is they don’t have “TRUTH” i mean nuclear force and 1st and 1st air force 1st army and…I mean the “TRUTH”.
In the US we don't just not have UHVDC, we have barely any HVDC. And, unlike Australia, we have our renewable resources located far from our population centers. The problem is the way we manage our grid makes it nearly impossible to build tranmission lines that cross regions. I'm working on a series of videos on that topic for my channel. ua-cam.com/play/PLg6cLUnYMLDNhBWCglJKWrFOZmV90T5IH.html
*"Why is China Dominating Ultra High Voltage DC?"* Because RAIL GUNS. China has them working, and ooh boy! do they have ALOT of them. Unstoppable, tungsten telephone pole-size projectiles at ANYWHERE on Earth or the Moon.
Most of these promises will not be fulfilled. This is true from advanced elections in Europe and the United States to Indian elections that tempt voters with rice
China uses a combination of election and selection to promote leaders up the administrative and political hierarchy. There are 9 levels, more elections at lower levels and more selections at higher levels.
& CO2, CH4, water and ground pollution, slave labor, non separation of trias politica, personal tracking, social credits, net zero freedom of speech etc.
This would actually make sense in Africa.. 1) Congo could build the 40GW grand inga dam. Too much power for DRC but the same is needed elsewhere in Africa. 2) alot of solar potential in the sahara-sahel region but low population density, most of africas population is along the Mediterranean coast up north, the Atlantic coast along the southern west Africa and in the east and South. That means a UHVDC super highly crossing Africa north to south, east to west accompanied by railway and road could be a huge economic stimulus and link. It will automatically avoid the issues of synchronization of the many small regional and country specific grids. Just hook up to the power super highway and your energy needs are taken care of.
Yes definitely. Plus China is investing a lot in Africa for minerals resources etc so seems likely they could repeat the model of what they did in Brazil.
@@raylee5030 yes off course, what's stopping the project is the business case, of the power could be evacuated and the demand is there getting financing becomes possible. Just throwing then thought out.
Thanks! New subscriber, really like and appreciate your content. All the best. I live at the northern end of the US BPA DC intertie, built in the late1950s-early 1960s. Amazing they weren't deployed everywhere. All the best
3:07 'with little existing transmission infrastructure in place' explains the gap between China and everyone else. They started late and could 'jump' to the latest tech. Same thing happened with cell phones in Africa, they skipped the whole land line thing.
China developed powerlines and basic infrastructure after the 1960s. Due to modern tech, Africa had many local-level innovations. For example, the Facebook marketplace was an idea taken from how Africans developed e-commerce. The truth is that the Chinese have the industrial capacity for scale and don't have the bureaucratic inefficiency of six guys being paid to produce tangible components in cost-inefficient ways.
It's true that china started late and has the opportunity to leap frog their development . First china must have the capacity, capability and the technological know-how to do that. With that many first time of technological breakthrough and invention it must be difficult if not impossible for anyone to say that china lacks innovation and that their invention or discoveries are copied from those who didn't have them as yet.
US is all about profit and pleasing shareholders. This is why for example Boeing is failing so hard these days. Short term gains became much more important than larger picture.
Yeah! I kind of noticed that back when she was making videos in Denmark, but in a subconscious level. You're right tho: having some age related hearing loss and unawarely using lip reading to supplement hearing it's one of the reasons she is so easy to follow. If my brain doesn't work so hard figuring out the words, it has more capacity for understanding their meaning. I've been watching this channel since Dave (Just Have A Think) recommended a video, and subbed immediately I got half way through the first one.
I'd be very interested in the UHVDC transmission reliability. The NSW-VIC interconnector seems to fall over every time there is high demand in the NSW grid.
Not much different from AC grid, since most transmission infrastructure are designed with redundancy in mind and work in parallel. One converter station have can multiple converter units and transformers. But the cost to maintain are a lot higher so It only worth in very long distance-capacity.
Pardon my political statement, but China doesn't use the people's money for weapons, rather, China uses the people's money to develop infrastructure, and to better the people's lives.
China has done gigantic engineering works for many centuries. The need for engineers to manage large enterprises for rails, canals, water supply, electricity, etc, meant that these managers ended up senior leadership positions in the polit bureau - all but one was an engineer at one point. Land use and utilities to serve land use is the bread and butter of development. China is catching up with the west before it's population ages.
My understanding of UHVDC not deployed in the US has to do with interstate rights. US has 6 grid regions. Within each of these regions are interconnected local electricity grids, but not across regions. UHVDC is only useful in the US for connections between grid regions.
In Europe there are tons of underwater HVDC lines connecting countries. Germany is currently building an underground one connecting the north to the South
Excellent content. In your earlier videos you did speak very quickly. More recent ones like these are much better for being a fraction slower - and even a slower would still help. But they are much appreciated. Thank you.
I just found your channel and subscribed. You are very good on camera and with a gift for explanation and presentation. Hyper interesting subject. All good wishes.
I am not sure grid battery storage and UHVDC are entirely competing technology. Your example is for load shifting. What about a prolonged period of cloudy days with no wind in New South Wales, your grid battery would have run out, but UHVDC would still function. It is highly unlikely that it is cloudy in both Western Australia and New South Wales for a prolonged period. They are not one-to-one substitute.
Both northern U.S. and Europe experience week(s) long lulls of wind during winter; the summer 'heat domes' of high pressure are low wind events, too. So the need for storage for a month is real. Hydrogen/ammonia made from wind/solar may be the solution, although electrolysis is expensive/inefficient.
@@TomMcinerney-g9bI don't get why everyone worries about poor electrolysis efficiency, while people are getting paid to BURN electricity during those regular overproduction peaks
Aussies took over so much land rich in resources from natives. They have no incentive to do anything else other than make easy money from mining, just like the saudis with their oil trade.
Decades ago Chinese leaders recognized education was key to long term success. Unlike so many western nations China hired the best and brightest engineers, designers, physicist, etc etc etc from around the world. They were not fearful of change. They had no where to go but up. They then setup a brutal meritocracy system of education. Their bets paid off. Their capitalist economy is extremely competitive. To be a political leader you must be highly educated. Sure China has plenty of problems. Governing 1.4 billion citizens is difficult to imagine. Lastly for every $1 billion US spent on military China spent $100 million. They haven't been involved in a war since 1979.
Just finding your channel. I learned from your take on CCS. I'll have to go through it again and make some notes, and compares with what I thought I'd learned so far. I'm guessing questions belong here in comments. I'll check your other social media too... Glad you're here!
LOL! They have no money and good plan management. Just for example in Vancouver right now they are building a new 4 lanes bridge to replace an old bridge that also has 4 lanes
Thanks for covering grid batteries Rosie! I would also put into the mix whole house / distributed batteries. They would have similar affect but also ensure each house’s electronics get a smooth power load and potentially lead to fewer household appliance failures over time due to grid fluctuations
I feel UHVDC would be beneficial in Australia by linking the grids around Perth, Karatha and Darwin with the grid in the South and Eastern states of Australia. This paired together with solar farms in the tropical north and in Western Australia could meet the demand of the eastern states in the evening. It seems a lot more viable compared to the plan where Singapore buys solar power production in the NT which would involve an even longer UHVDC link of around 3000 - 4000 KM.
They can’t go much higher than 1MV. It is not known why the air ionises at this voltage when according to known physics it shouldn’t. There is suggestion of cosmic radiation causing the breakdown. This problem was identified in the Soviet Union. Anyway it would be better to connect Eastern Australia to New Zealand than WA. It is a shorter distance and they have a bigger capacity, a lot of which is Hydro. It would get much more use. It would have. Been a 1/3 the cost of the snowy pump storage.
I agree completely. The way some Western channels demonise China is absolutely outrageous. Pure lies are being circulated constantly. Some YT channels dedicated to bashing China. Russia receives similar treatment as well.
Doesn't have to be ANY different. Hell if you have enough renewables you could cool to superconductor efficiency's and still transmit more power than conventional HV
They use solid state thyristor switching to do the DC to AC conversion and vice versa. These days the technology is well sorted and these devices can handle very high power. It is related to similar technology used to get solar power and wind power (DC) converted to AC and onto the AC grid.
I’m more interested in the actual efficiency numbers of the converters vs transformers because transformers can be very good, as high as 99%. With Switching regulators its more like 80-90%. These days its more likely to be IGBTs rather than thyristors. But theres no getting around the internal resistance of silicon.
@@davidliddelow5704 IGBT have very low power dissipation (especially when compared to thyristors!) You seem to know something about this. Don't play stupid, when you well know how much power a transformer consumes as heat when the windings get saturated
UHVDC only found in BRICS countries & not in G7 ones ? BRICS is more dynamically innovative and advancing in technologies whereas G7 remains stagnant.😮
The point is that the G7 countries had electricity coverage for 99.9% of the population before BRICS even existed. So there's no reason to spend billions on parallel UHVDC when the savings from 1-2% higher efficiency won't even pay back the investment in 50 years. Creating this parallel structure would only lead to higher grid maintenance costs and higher prices for customers.
@@016.kazinakibafjal2 What improvement or change ? China is building these lines where there were no high voltage lines. So it's not an improvement, it's a complete new development. So it makes sense for them because then they don't have to maintain the older lines because they don't have them. In most of the G7 countries, there are only a few tens to hundreds of kilometres between the electricity source and the customers, not thousands like in China. So there is no savings or efficiency gains at all over these shorter distances. Just wasted resources that could be used elsewhere.
great vid, but the environmental cost of batteries must be factored in, as per the environmental cost of UHVDC. all those raw materials and manufacturing don't come cheap environmentally or energy wise.
I really enjoyed this presentation. I was concerned you were going to ignore the cost and environment. It took the second half of the video to see the negatives. 🙂
Let it be remember that an Australian consortium was able to get enough investment to plan the "Sun Cable" a undersea cable from Northern Territory to Singapore, a terrible idea that rightfully failed.
But still requires maintenance. Not just the physical hardware, but the land around it. It's important to keep growth off the towers and away from the lines. Spanning thousands of kilometers means a lot of ground to monitor and maintain. Further, the maintenance of the actual equipment requires highly skilled workers and often times helicopters. Whereas batteries in boxes on the ground take up a lot less space, and all the work can be done while standing firmly on Earth.
@@paulsmyers203 and a battery replacement and recycling factory )) It's not long life vanadium batteries, but lithium with average lifetime about 7 years. Oops.
What an excellent breakdown of this. Thanks. I think I am still a believer in the potential in a place like the U.S.. I would like to see the idea of west coast to east coast with a Terawatt of offshore wind assumed on both coasts. Saying that, I know get new transmission across a couple states is taking 10 years for approval today… so cross country feels impossible.
The main reason is that these countries have been deindustrializing in the past and do not need so much electricity. China is the world's factory, so it needs a lot of electricity.
Quebec has most of our hydro up North where "nobody" (with any political power) lives, and most of the population in the South. So it invested in 750 kV AC back in the 1960s and 70s, carrying power 1000+ km. That means we have crews who are familiar with UHVDC-scale voltages. We also have crews familiar with regular HVDC. As our power demands are expected to double, we expect to build a bunch of new generation capacity, and it seems likely we'll have UHVDC lines to those plants.
I was wondering if it would work both ways in Australia. So when Western Australia wakes up could the east provide solar power to help the Western Australia grid with their breakfast needs?
There is no one in Western Australia to use this electricity. Why not skipping the green nonsense of "climate change" and make use of the huge coal reserves?
I don't believe it's necessary. Western Australia can power itself just fine because it has higher wind generation capacity (better winds) and lower population. Meanwhile, most of Australia's population is within 600km of the east coast, and west-to-east transmission would relieve the later hours of peak electricity usage (2PM - 8PM).
@@gregorymalchuk272 A great opportunity if the green religion would not keep you from doing it. By the way Germany is in a similar situation but HVDC and 400KV AC is mostly sufficient due to the size of the country with the potential to cover perhaps 30 - 40% of the load.
Another great video Rosie. I have seen a worrying article about possible blackouts due to diminished coal baseload supply here in Australia. Of course the govt response is to ensure gas supplied power is available. So I hope that our federal government is investing heavily in large battery storage as for renewable power to be available reliably and at an acceptable cost they are certainly going to be needed and pretty soon I imagine.
Up to 380kV AC, the air can be used as an insulator between the cables on the masts. This is also possible up to 650kV DC. Insulated cables must be used above this. However, insulated cables are more heavy to hang on poles. The higher the voltage, the greater the distance that must be kept from the power line. This is difficult to comply with in densely populated areas.
Where did you hear that? That's totally not true, they do not use insulated cables on UHV AC or DC. The arms and insulators are just longer. In fact, that's how you can tell what voltage a HV transmission line is, the length of the insulators. I work in transmission substations, it's all bare conductor from tower to tower.
That's nonsense. Many countries operate 400kV and 500kV AC systems and in some places 765kV AC is used. In the past there was a line operating at 1150kV. None of them have insulated cables and neither do the 800kV DC lines in China.
"with their tens of thousands of kilometers of installation of this high voltage tech they have largely the risked this technology..." Finally a positive use of the word "de- risk" LOL
Plain 'ol last generation power lines are pretty efficient as it is, even on a coast-to-coast US basis. It sounds like UHVDC would be a field-service nightmare, even if a 2500 miles right-of-way could ever be achieved in America. The real problem is that local go aheads have been obtained for numerous utility scale solar projects all over rural America, but they can't get hooked into even regional grids by any kind of power lines at all. The projects essentially die on the vine.
It's a question.of efficiency and containing losses, as well as reducing the need for syncing. Beyond about 800 km on a transcontinental link DC pays for itself.
“Everything I don’t like is capitalism” Stop being so intellectually lazy. You’re no better than the free market absolutists that think capitalism is the answer for everything….
2:36 A benefit of a lot of current is that it allows for the use of cables of smaller diameter? I am confused. I was convinced it was just the opposite. You step up the voltage to lower your current, because the higher the current the higher the thermal effect on the cables.
$2m per km and a bit for substations at either end. Where do I sign. At that scale you would need N-1 (two lines). Likely multi-terminal to pickup generation along the way etc. Each substation/converter >$200m? Easily more than double the estimate. Still valid as a thought exercise though.
The US has been too busy fighting wars in the past 30 years - this is their favourite pastime and the reason they have had no money to spend on infrastructure - note that China has not been fighting wars all over the world in the past 30 years - they are now threatening their first altercation in a looong time - with Taiwan - the US is excited to get involved in this to justify thier massive military budget/satisfy the needs of the huge military industrial complex they have created.
George Galloway (UK MP, and the Leader of The Workers Party of Britain): Taiwan Untangled. ua-cam.com/video/rVYTugFYols/v-deo.html 2024.05.19 (21:13) (CGTN) 😊
@EngineeringwithRosie I work on the Muja Power station WA to Kalgoorlie transmission lines, 1,700 towers, and climbed 900 towers. It is 1,600 km to South Australia's Wudinna sub station. 400m between towers is 4,000 towers. Plus road access, plus camps, plus transport of materials plus survey and design plus stormy weather and extreme heat, plus ...... Plus maintenance after construction The Capacity at both ends is small high voltage. Based on the number of customers and demand. It is the capacity and length that makes the km costs higher. And isolation. And distance to the workface daily. Now if you wanted new towns along the Great Australian Bite, along the railway line that could be very interesting 😉 😀 😊 Living in the desert and hauling distances add to the basic costs of an East Coast build price. As battery technologies expand and PV technologies continue to lower supply costs then millions and millions and millions and millions of customers rooftops, all grid connected will look irresistible. Given every building will have a vehicle big battery parked 23hrs every day. Selfplug-in V2G EVs 😊😊😊😊😊 The old ideas are distracting. Australia should get a robotic Tesla vehicle manufacturing factory and run it 24/7. Australia imports 1million new vehicles annually. 900 vehicles per shift 24/7/365. For 20years. 😊😊 Or 1,800 vehicles for 10 years. 😊 Australia imports all its petroleum.
UTILIZATION FACTOR is the nuclear nuts mantra. Hahaha 👍 😆 My point is the UTILIZATION FACTOR for a transnational transmission line maybe very small. As I keep saying new grid is very expensive. 90% of home electricity bills are grid rental costs. PART 1, of todays electricity is the generation of electricity. Every one is lost in generation time wasting now. Most of generation has been discussed. Nuclear Distant renewables solar farms Distant renewables wind farms. Carbon capture fossil fueled. Pumped hydro generation. PART 3, of todays electricity is the customers. Millions and millions of customers. PART 2, of todays electricity is the national electrical grid. The unspoken invisible middle stuff. Superannuation invested stuff. The government sold to raise funds stuff. SILENCE is killing me. Nuclear will mention it because they want to monopolise it from the existing fossil fueled central generation plants locations. They say distant Snowy 2 transmission costs are huge, and they are right. They say distant renewables grid makes renewables costs huge. They are absolutely SILENT on new grid capacity construction costs as they save Australia from CO2 emissions by expanding the 15% electric energy to 100% electric energy to replace fossil fueled energy Australia uses. Australia actually imports all its petroleum products and converts them into CO2 emissions. 20million vehicles in 10million homes and all electric. Nuclear say they will top them up with grid electricity or hydrogen fuel. These out of town experts talking about nuclear energy AND vehicle technology are absolutely amazing people 👏 👌 Expertise beyond understanding. I have grandchildren and they have children. We both care for Australia but they are both stupid or lying. Australia has 20million solar PV sites connected to the grid today. Structural support structures with road access and grid connection. All installation paid for by the structures owner. 20million buildings begging to be allowed to connect without constraint or limits. But grid owners know that the grid is fragile and must be protected from over supply. From daily sunlight ✨️ 💛 😌 💖 Thank you for thinking about what I am saying. We need the 1million km to be discussed. Nuclear promoters say $1million per km. Busy streets and energised poles and wires and shift work would not be cheaper than $1million per km in busy streets. I have priced shift work. Rosie you have a better way than me to speak on this matter. When I say stuff is invisible I include the number of poles on the streets and at street corners, try counting them. Hahaha 👍
UTILIZATION FACTOR is the nuclear nuts mantra. Hahaha 👍 😆 My point is the UTILIZATION FACTOR for a transnational transmission line maybe very small. As I keep saying new grid is very expensive. 90% of home electricity bills are grid rental costs. PART 1, of todays electricity is the generation of electricity. Every one is lost in generation time wasting now. Most of generation has been discussed. Nuclear Distant renewables solar farms Distant renewables wind farms. Carbon capture fossil fueled. Pumped hydro generation. PART 3, of todays electricity is the customers. Millions and millions of customers. PART 2, of todays electricity is the national electrical grid. The unspoken invisible middle stuff. Superannuation invested stuff. The government sold to raise funds stuff. SILENCE is killing me. Nuclear will mention it because they want to monopolise it from the existing fossil fueled central generation plants locations. They say distant Snowy 2 transmission costs are huge, and they are right. They say distant renewables grid makes renewables costs huge. They are absolutely SILENT on new grid capacity construction costs as they save Australia from CO2 emissions by expanding the 15% electric energy to 100% electric energy to replace fossil fueled energy Australia uses. Australia actually imports all its petroleum products and converts them into CO2 emissions. 20million vehicles in 10million homes and all electric. Nuclear say they will top them up with grid electricity or hydrogen fuel. These out of town experts talking about nuclear energy AND vehicle technology are absolutely amazing people 👏 👌 Expertise beyond understanding. I have grandchildren and they have children. We both care for Australia but they are both stupid or lying. Australia has 20million solar PV sites connected to the grid today. Structural support structures with road access and grid connection. All installation paid for by the structures owner. 20million buildings begging to be allowed to connect without constraint or limits. But grid owners know that the grid is fragile and must be protected from over supply. From daily sunlight ✨️ 💛 😌 💖 Thank you for thinking about what I am saying. We need the 1million km to be discussed. Nuclear promoters say $1million per km. Busy streets and energised poles and wires and shift work would not be cheaper than $1million per km in busy streets. And 100% clean electricity is ×7 more !!!! I have priced shift work. Rosie you have a better way than me to speak on this matter. When I say stuff is invisible I include the number of poles on the streets and at street corners, try counting them. Hahaha 👍
Tempting to "chase the sun" but it just doesn't quite add up, as the battery comparison shows. Would be nice to have another hour or two. Maybe with superconducting lines in the future. But i guess its still satisfying icing on the cake for any long west to east lines. It seems like whatever your cool green energy idea, grid scale li-ion will probably undercut it.
I suspect within a year or two grid scale batteries won't be lithium anymore. There are lots of chemistries that are cheaper and about to leave the lab.
@@gregorymalchuk272 The depends on the climate and I recall in one of her previous videos Rossie said that Australia doesn't have the long periods of Dunkelflaute, times without sun and wind, that other places do, so they don't need as much storage.
@@Decarbonize11 Yes fingers crossed lots of new bat tech out of lab into the pilot commercial scale phase, exiting times, 6-8 hour storage will be pretty much solved if it isn't already. On to the tricky weekly seasonal stuff.
Good video. One point to add regarding battery as an alternative: it has a fixed life span, e.g. 5000 cycles, which translates to 5-15 years depending on usage condition. This one factor could mean battery farm is cost prohibitive.
No, it's not. Edison was competing against emerging remotely derived hydro AC technology which was able to be stepped up and down in voltage in order to facilitate efficient transmission. That was clever stuff, back in the day. Edison wanted to continue with locally generated low voltage DC because that was all his technology could produce. His reluctance to accept AC transmission was purely for commercial reasons. Keep in mind that at its peak there were hundreds of power stations dotted all over New York burning coal to produce electricity just for lighting. It was big business. The technology did not exist in the early years of last century to facilitate UHVDC. It's really only in the post war era that HVDC transmission has been able to be realised, let alone UHVDC. Edison didn't stand a chance. It couldn't be done.
What is the actual difference between HVDC and UHVDC? Is it that the lines are insulated? But then our subsea HDVC lines are insulated. Can't just be the voltage, must be some physical difference...
The functional difference is the higher voltage, but then there's a bunch of technical challenges that get harder with higher voltage so yes you need better insulation amongst other things.
Terminology, depending on what standards organization you want to follow HV is generally lower than 300kV, then 300kV to 760kV would be EHV (extra high voltage) and UHV is over 760kV. But most people just call any EHV line an HV line and not until UHV do they call it out. And yes, of course as voltage goes up so do the insulation, switching, fault interruption etc... requirements and technology to handle the higher voltages. For overhead, the insulators get longer and distance to structures and between phases increases, but still bare conductors. For underground, usually more insulation around the conductor and a physically larger overall cable. Better termination systems and more skill to install said terminations.
i take my question back. at 4:57 you show the Brasil UHVDC line which show 6 wires spreaded out with a star for one line. Is the other side the line back or do they use earth as common GND and is is basically another UHVDC line. By the way on other big low voltage DC systems the Cathodic corrosion protection of big steel installation (i.e. pipeline) can be affected.
The Brazil Amazon basin hydro power is only seasonal power delivery because of low water impoundment and low height. There is a lot of concern this well know situation will be leveraged to hugely increase reservoir size in the future to create water reserves for year round demand electric power flooding many times the current size.
UHV transmission and energy storage devices are not in conflict; in fact they always appear as twins. There are hundreds of pumped storage plants under construction in China, along with various other forms of energy storage centers.
Long transmission lines are needed because the sun doesn't always shine everywhere, even in Austrailia. The general structure should be batteries at both ends of the transmission line. Australia, USA, and China are large enough to take advantage of that the sun almost always shrines somewhere. The rest is what batteries are for.
Sabotaging a UHVDC line would be simple, and the result exceedingly violent, bright and hot. I don't like the idea of vulnerable and potentially very hazardous powerlines stretching thousands of miles across the country. With AC power simple fuses and circuit breakers work fine but with DC it is very hard to open a large circuit and quench the resulting arc. Very serious business indeed.
I think it would receive far less political opposition if we co-located these new lines along railroad and highway right of ways. We’ve already done that with a couple of HVDC lines.
for ac or dc the current decreases with a higher voltage for a given wattage. If uhvdc suffers less loss in transport then its more efficient to use for other dc applications rather than converting dc-ac-dc
The xlinks project for an HVDC link from Morocco to UK which you mention in an earlier video is going for 500kv. If UHVDC is better is the issue cost? Or is it that the proposed solar and wind in Morroco is not big enough to justify a higher capacity cable?
Very interesting. The technology is completely proven; in Manitoba the 'Bipole 1' and 'Bipole 2' hydro lines operate at 500KV over 900km, which is not widely known. Wikipedia says "A large portion of the energy generated on the Nelson river is transmitted south on the HVDC Nelson River Bipole system. The two transmission lines BIPOLE I and BIPOLE II, each nearly 900 km long, operate at ± 450 kV and ± 500 kV DC, with converter stations at Gillam and Sundance, and the inverter station, Dorsey, near Rosser. The combined capacity of the two HVDC lines is 3420 MW, or about 68% of the total generation capacity in the province. A third HVDC line, BIPOLE III was completed July 4, 2018. At a cost of $4.7B, it carries 2000 MW capacity over 3076 towers and 1384 km. Two new converter stations were built at Keewatinohk on the Nelson River and at Riel east of Winnipeg." However, there is a dark side not to the transmission mechanism, but to the hydro generation, which has devastated Indigenous land and peoples. That said, the transmission system itself is perfectly feasible and I've never understood why the rest of the world continues to rely on less efficient and arguably more harmful AC transmission systems. So thanks for tipping us off about China!
i have a question. If you build an electric grid today from scratch, would you use AC or DC, How do today's dc-dc converters compare with transformers on short/medium distances? solar/wind produce DC directly (wind through converting unstable AC to DC anyway {and then again conversion DC-AC). (in dc reactive power didn't exist, 95% can run on DC or already run on dc. Like all electronics, variable speed/torque drivers for AC motors, light bulbs)
you forgot the combination of UHVDC + Sydney batteries, more cost but does at least extend the power availability time. you're paying more but have much more capacity.
1. The US has a HVDC that has been running for decades -- the Pacific Intertie, bringing the hydropower on the Columbia River 800 miles to Southern California. The link has had earthquake and other problems --- it failed shortly after being fired-up because of the Sylmar earthquake and then again after a fire at the Sylmar station, then again because of the Northridge earthquake. 2. US cities REALLY hate having power generation near them. San Francisco shutdown its last generating station and built a "long underwater extension cord" (the TransBay Cable). 3. UHVDC and HVDC only make sense when the distance is long AND there is no need to tap into the cables along the way (the converter stations are a significant expense. Trains are economical transportation only when you space the stations far enough apart.)
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you endorse strangling western energy production while praising China's energy grid. Tell me you're a propagandist without telling me you're a propagandist. At the very least you believe none of the words you're saying. You can't be trusted.
Also: why do we still lack 600kph rail linking Brisbane-Sydney-Canberra-Melbourne and East-West?
Soviet union can have 1 super big power grid. So why other country can't. Even small contry like jepang have 2 power grid
5:09 Soviet have Unfinished megaproject Ekibastuz GRES-2 in 1985 1.115KV UHVDC.
Unfinished because the country collapse
Roughly about in 1980 they did the math and 1MV DC would have made sense in the USA if one line ran coast to coast with taps along the way. UHVDC is way more economically efficient and energy storage wasn't an option. Load time shifting and redundancy cost savings would have paid for it. We didn't get it because regulatory approval and getting public easements looked impossible. Getting public easements is very hard in USA. Try to imagine some sort of mercury vapor vacuum tube inverters because UHVDC switching transistors were not a thing yet, with no wind or solar planned in the mix, and you understand how long ago that was. It's made $$ sense a long time.
Just because China has central planning doesn't mean it doesn't send officials to discuss and consult with affected people what the purpose, impact, and compensation will be. My dad got a free flat in the city when they tore down his village home for development. It's like a company making a policy change. It still has to discuss and consult about the impacts with affected employees even though a company is "centrally planned". It's just a matter of degree. Otherwise, nice video.
Mm… when they decided to tear down the hutongs of Beijing for the Olympic Games, there was not much of consultation going on. They just did it. easily found for anyone willing to look into. Just type in Google: hutongs destruction for Olympic Games China. You’ll bump into plenty of articles published in various countries about it. NY Times, for example: “Olympics Imperil Historic Beijing Neighborhood
July 12, 2006”
The Guardian: “Olympics blamed for forcible removal of 2m over 20 years”
And many others.
@@Nikoo033 , so you were directly affected?
@@PahatRout yes, along with 10 000s of people.
@@PahatRout yes, along with 10000s of people.
Well it was that or nothing
Australia is more interested in $368 billion Submarines deal
That's protection money paid to the Mafia.
@@pjw3438 Paid the number 1 super power to protect its trade line between number 2 super power. Actually no need to protect or no need to protect.
800bn
Australia govt just wants to find the next thing to privatise to get money for more election promises
Haha well said mate
Brazilian here :)
Brazil has 90% of Electric Energy from Clean/Renewable most because the National Grid.
Because our country is huge and ALWAYS is raining somewhere, so the National Grid guarantee that the Energy will always be available Nationwide, no matter the place is being generated.
With the MASSIVE new investments in Wind and Solar, even in extremely drought Years, the System will be secured without the need to use of coal to fulfill the demand, and we are capable to export Energy from Colombia in the north to Argentina in the south.
In 2017, a Chinese company built a 2,000-kilometer ±800KV UHV transmission project for the Murray Hill Power Station in Brazil, and this year it will build another 1,300-kilometer line.
Hydro power is easy mode. With 66% hydro power, I'm not sure why Brazil would use any fossil fuels.
@@davieb8216 climate is likely unpredictable in long run and energy security is important, countries have to be prepared for the most unlikely scenarios
Brazilian here too. And also depending on the UHVDC power capacity, it allows hydroelectric dams to work as kinect energy batteries (by reducing the water flow) when wind and solar are at full power in other connected states. Maybe China is also thinking about it. Even though the Chinese Three Gorges dam has 22,5 GW (installed capacity) and Brazilian Itaipu 14 GW, both annual production are relatively similar, due to rain variations in China.
@@davieb8216 Base load vs peak load, also depending on sharing capacities between different regions.
UHVDC is way more economically efficient than distributed small grid and energy storage for China. because China have 5time zones geographically.
Correction: China has one single time zone: the whole country uses Beijing time. If they insisted on 1200 local time being when the sun was overhead then yes, they'd need the five time zones they used to have.
@@trueriver1950 "geographically."
true
@@trueriver1950 I said geographically not in practice
As a Chinese I'm not sure if I'm right or not, as far as I know for example, most of the electric power companies in the US are divided by states and there are too many of them, so it's difficult for them to peak the power resources between different states, and the power equipments are aging.However, China's power system is completely deployed and peaked by the national power grid in general.This makes the entire country's power grid run very efficiently.
50% correct😊
@@alanwu5788 wHY JUST 50%
@@boweihuang3246 Even though states each have their own local power grids there is still a national power grid. States realized a long time ago that interconnecting with each other just made their own grids more reliable. The only state that doesn't do this is Texas. Texas has refused to join the national power grid and remains independent.
@@krisalis709 not even the entirety of Texas. The more liberal western portions have joined the Pacific grid.
China also has several separate AC grid throughout region. But those grids also exchanged power (in long distance) via HVDC. They got 2 birds with one stone.
China had the most UHVDC, the most high-speed railway lines, the most EVs, the most 5G base stations in the world. Seems China is just ahead of everybody!
They need massive amounts of infrastructure for the 1.4 Billion humans in it.
But China's GDP is still 60% US's, even though China used twice as much electricity as the US in 2023. Crazy fake GDP of the US
Amazing what happens when you graduate 10x the amount of STEM candidates than any other nation on earth.... Without debts..
They don’t that good cause they military not dominant like USA the only they can is passively play in Asia and don’t have much impact cause if they gonna do anything USA can bring EU and JP&SouthKorea easily cause they case is on JP. The real problem is they don’t have “TRUTH” i mean nuclear force and 1st and 1st air force 1st army and…I mean the “TRUTH”.
@@davefroman4700 more like what happen if you build not bomb
In the US we don't just not have UHVDC, we have barely any HVDC. And, unlike Australia, we have our renewable resources located far from our population centers. The problem is the way we manage our grid makes it nearly impossible to build tranmission lines that cross regions. I'm working on a series of videos on that topic for my channel.
ua-cam.com/play/PLg6cLUnYMLDNhBWCglJKWrFOZmV90T5IH.html
And to think U.S. first developed HVDC in 1960s....
US doesn't even have a common grid
*"Why is China Dominating Ultra High Voltage DC?"*
Because RAIL GUNS. China has them working, and ooh boy! do they have ALOT of them.
Unstoppable, tungsten telephone pole-size projectiles at ANYWHERE on Earth or the Moon.
China doesn't need to satisfy 4-5 years election promises. It can focus on longer term needs.
選舉承諾大部分不能完成，換屆以後一切歸零
Most of these promises will not be fulfilled. This is true from advanced elections in Europe and the United States to Indian elections that tempt voters with rice
It just needs to satisfy its people desire for prosperity, which is measurable and real. And the CPC has hit the ball out of the park.
China uses a combination of election and selection to promote leaders up the administrative and political hierarchy.
There are 9 levels, more elections at lower levels and more selections at higher levels.
China dominating uhvdc, hsr, solar, ev, wind turbines, batteries, nuclear, reforesting, nuclear,...
That's what happens when you have people with engineering backgrounds running your country
@@Berkeloid0 Exactly!! As an engineer working in the grid SO, those politicians are PITA.
They want to be self sufficient in energy before attacking taiwan.
& CO2, CH4, water and ground pollution, slave labor, non separation of trias politica, personal tracking, social credits, net zero freedom of speech etc.
@@Anton-tf9iw Who would use slave labor nowadays? Everything is done by machines/robots.
0:38 "consider the potential" lol
I laughed when she said "currently".
Canada has native UHVDC installations to send large amounts of power from the Nelson River at Hudson bay to Chicago, over 2000KM
Canada can't even fix potholes, don't really have military, and does not have gold reserves - it merely prints money out of thin air.
I like this type of reporting. Unbiased technology and informative
Hey Rosie! You are awesome, thanks for the amazing video!
China doesn't waste all their money on Forever Wars.
This would actually make sense in Africa..
1) Congo could build the 40GW grand inga dam. Too much power for DRC but the same is needed elsewhere in Africa.
2) alot of solar potential in the sahara-sahel region but low population density, most of africas population is along the Mediterranean coast up north, the Atlantic coast along the southern west Africa and in the east and South.
That means a UHVDC super highly crossing Africa north to south, east to west accompanied by railway and road could be a huge economic stimulus and link. It will automatically avoid the issues of synchronization of the many small regional and country specific grids. Just hook up to the power super highway and your energy needs are taken care of.
Yes definitely. Plus China is investing a lot in Africa for minerals resources etc so seems likely they could repeat the model of what they did in Brazil.
High risk investment in the Congo and relying on Africa power markets and customer's to pay for that.
This is a very interesting project! Cheers from Brazil!
Congo has completed ONLY 1.8GW in 2023? 40 GW maybe decades away. Congo does not have $80 billions to complete the entire project.
@@raylee5030 yes off course, what's stopping the project is the business case, of the power could be evacuated and the demand is there getting financing becomes possible. Just throwing then thought out.
Kiwis have used HVDC since the 1960's as well.
Yep, since 1965.
Thanks! New subscriber, really like and appreciate your content. All the best. I live at the northern end of the US BPA DC intertie, built in the late1950s-early 1960s. Amazing they weren't deployed everywhere. All the best
I love this video. Subscribed!
3:07 'with little existing transmission infrastructure in place' explains the gap between China and everyone else. They started late and could 'jump' to the latest tech. Same thing happened with cell phones in Africa, they skipped the whole land line thing.
@@ericbabich I'd rather cheap junk be made locally. But the government knows best so they sold us out to china.
China developed powerlines and basic infrastructure after the 1960s. Due to modern tech, Africa had many local-level innovations. For example, the Facebook marketplace was an idea taken from how Africans developed e-commerce.
The truth is that the Chinese have the industrial capacity for scale and don't have the bureaucratic inefficiency of six guys being paid to produce tangible components in cost-inefficient ways.
Err, China has land lines too and power cables and power poles too etc.
China has stopped buying most technology from other countries. China has its own technology. Africa still buys cell phones made by China.
It's true that china started late and has the opportunity to leap frog their development . First china must have the capacity, capability and the technological know-how to do that. With that many first time of technological breakthrough and invention it must be difficult if not impossible for anyone to say that china lacks innovation and that their invention or discoveries are copied from those who didn't have them as yet.
I love the clarity of your analysis + all the information you pack in - thank you 👏👏
Excellent video. I liked it once, and then tried to like it two more times after that. Awesome!
Why haven't I found this channel before! Subbed/liked.
US is all about profit and pleasing shareholders. This is why for example Boeing is failing so hard these days. Short term gains became much more important than larger picture.
I love watching you. When you speak, you enunciate each word. I don't need closed captions with you, I can read your lips.
I agree Rosie speaks sooo clearly, probably the best on YT
Yeah! I kind of noticed that back when she was making videos in Denmark, but in a subconscious level. You're right tho: having some age related hearing loss and unawarely using lip reading to supplement hearing it's one of the reasons she is so easy to follow.
If my brain doesn't work so hard figuring out the words, it has more capacity for understanding their meaning.
I've been watching this channel since Dave (Just Have A Think) recommended a video, and subbed immediately I got half way through the first one.
I'd be very interested in the UHVDC transmission reliability. The NSW-VIC interconnector seems to fall over every time there is high demand in the NSW grid.
@Nimble-Auwhere can I find more info on such complex issues (solar flare influence, residual currents, flow issues)?
Not much different from AC grid, since most transmission infrastructure are designed with redundancy in mind and work in parallel.
One converter station have can multiple converter units and transformers.
But the cost to maintain are a lot higher so It only worth in very long distance-capacity.
Pardon my political statement, but China doesn't use the people's money for weapons, rather, China uses the people's money to develop infrastructure, and to better the people's lives.
China is working on One Belt One Road , on Trades & Infrastructure projects .
The US is working on One Bomb One Road , on Wars & Bad Mouthing China .
So who pays for Chinas army?
China has done gigantic engineering works for many centuries. The need for engineers to manage large enterprises for rails, canals, water supply, electricity, etc, meant that these managers ended up senior leadership positions in the polit bureau - all but one was an engineer at one point.
Land use and utilities to serve land use is the bread and butter of development. China is catching up with the west before it's population ages.
😂
Your dreaming, same as their friend for life Russia.
Vietnamese don't think much of China's weapons.
My understanding of UHVDC not deployed in the US has to do with interstate rights. US has 6 grid regions. Within each of these regions are interconnected local electricity grids, but not across regions. UHVDC is only useful in the US for connections between grid regions.
No. The US has 3 fully connected grids. East, West, and Texas.
In Europe there are tons of underwater HVDC lines connecting countries. Germany is currently building an underground one connecting the north to the South
Which is gas isolated, so way better then the Chinese version.
@@Naikomi95 Why is gas isolated better than polymer isolated?
@@nielsdaemen because of physics?
Excellent content. In your earlier videos you did speak very quickly. More recent ones like these are much better for being a fraction slower - and even a slower would still help. But they are much appreciated. Thank you.
I have to turn the speed down to 75%, otherwise it goes on pretty monotone too fast. Great content though. Rosie could use more inflection
I just found your channel and subscribed. You are very good on camera and with a gift for explanation and presentation. Hyper interesting subject. All good wishes.
I am not sure grid battery storage and UHVDC are entirely competing technology. Your example is for load shifting. What about a prolonged period of cloudy days with no wind in New South Wales, your grid battery would have run out, but UHVDC would still function. It is highly unlikely that it is cloudy in both Western Australia and New South Wales for a prolonged period. They are not one-to-one substitute.
Both northern U.S. and Europe experience week(s) long lulls of wind during winter; the summer 'heat domes' of high pressure are low wind events, too. So the
need for storage for a month is real. Hydrogen/ammonia made from wind/solar may be the solution, although electrolysis is expensive/inefficient.
@@TomMcinerney-g9bI don't get why everyone worries about poor electrolysis efficiency, while people are getting paid to BURN electricity during those regular overproduction peaks
Very important tech. Way to go China !
Aussies took over so much land rich in resources from natives. They have no incentive to do anything else other than make easy money from mining, just like the saudis with their oil trade.
Decades ago Chinese leaders recognized education was key to long term success. Unlike so many western nations China hired the best and brightest engineers, designers, physicist, etc etc etc from around the world. They were not fearful of change. They had no where to go but up. They then setup a brutal meritocracy system of education. Their bets paid off. Their capitalist economy is extremely competitive. To be a political leader you must be highly educated. Sure China has plenty of problems. Governing 1.4 billion citizens is difficult to imagine. Lastly for every $1 billion US spent on military China spent $100 million. They haven't been involved in a war since 1979.
"to be political leader you must be highly educated" you mean graduated from primary school?
@@hwdex1472Most of the Chinese politicians are engineers.
And yet Chinese education is failing. Chinese kids can only regurgitate information. They can't think or comprehend things on their own.
This guy drinks the kool-aid, the only thing Chinese leaders are good at is kissing Xi Jinping's ass because anyone who doesn't gets booted out.
@@hwdex1472 No, they're all engineers. You'd know that if you had graduated from primary school.
Just finding your channel. I learned from your take on CCS. I'll have to go through it again and make some notes, and compares with what I thought I'd learned so far. I'm guessing questions belong here in comments. I'll check your other social media too... Glad you're here!
Western Canada can learn from this Rosie. Thank you.
LOL! They have no money and good plan management. Just for example in Vancouver right now they are building a new 4 lanes bridge to replace an old bridge that also has 4 lanes
It's better to build more hydro plant in the north like Quebec already done.
Thanks for covering grid batteries Rosie! I would also put into the mix whole house / distributed batteries. They would have similar affect but also ensure each house’s electronics get a smooth power load and potentially lead to fewer household appliance failures over time due to grid fluctuations
I feel UHVDC would be beneficial in Australia by linking the grids around Perth, Karatha and Darwin with the grid in the South and Eastern states of Australia. This paired together with solar farms in the tropical north and in Western Australia could meet the demand of the eastern states in the evening. It seems a lot more viable compared to the plan where Singapore buys solar power production in the NT which would involve an even longer UHVDC link of around 3000 - 4000 KM.
Who is going to use that power? With a small population that almost has no manufacturing industry?
Nice plan, but you have to spend the money on nuclear submarine, so..... use less ac?
yeah sadly
@@iqbang9236 more to help the eastern states during the afternoon peak when people get home from work.
China: lets build our country
America: lets take over somebody elses country
Good info - thanks.
They can’t go much higher than 1MV. It is not known why the air ionises at this voltage when according to known physics it shouldn’t. There is suggestion of cosmic radiation causing the breakdown. This problem was identified in the Soviet Union.
Anyway it would be better to connect Eastern Australia to New Zealand than WA. It is a shorter distance and they have a bigger capacity, a lot of which is Hydro. It would get much more use. It would have. Been a 1/3 the cost of the snowy pump storage.
I am surprised you did not list the project in North West Australia to supply solar power to Singapore. it has been held up by supply of cables.
This fantasy project has been proven a scam long ago...Why even mention?
Good to see some UA-cam channels not falling into "China bad" narratives and actually talking about the positives stuff about China.
I agree completely. The way some Western channels demonise China is absolutely outrageous. Pure lies are being circulated constantly. Some YT channels dedicated to bashing China. Russia receives similar treatment as well.
There would be losses in the actual AC to DC to AC conversion too. I want to know how they do that and how it compares to regular old transformers.
Doesn't have to be ANY different.
Hell if you have enough renewables you could cool to superconductor efficiency's and still transmit more power than conventional HV
They use solid state thyristor switching to do the DC to AC conversion and vice versa. These days the technology is well sorted and these devices can handle very high power.
It is related to similar technology used to get solar power and wind power (DC) converted to AC and onto the AC grid.
@@jimgraham6722 it sure was revolutionary when IGBT became commonplace!
I’m more interested in the actual efficiency numbers of the converters vs transformers because transformers can be very good, as high as 99%. With Switching regulators its more like 80-90%. These days its more likely to be IGBTs rather than thyristors. But theres no getting around the internal resistance of silicon.
@@davidliddelow5704 IGBT have very low power dissipation (especially when compared to thyristors!)
You seem to know something about this.
Don't play stupid, when you well know how much power a transformer consumes as heat when the windings get saturated
A moment of silence for all the bugs who died getting zapped to bring us this information
UHVDC only found in BRICS countries & not in G7 ones ?
BRICS is more dynamically innovative and advancing in technologies whereas G7 remains stagnant.😮
The point is that the G7 countries had electricity coverage for 99.9% of the population before BRICS even existed. So there's no reason to spend billions on parallel UHVDC when the savings from 1-2% higher efficiency won't even pay back the investment in 50 years. Creating this parallel structure would only lead to higher grid maintenance costs and higher prices for customers.
When I was a young kid, stagnation was in developing countries; now BRICS (particularly China) make U.S.A. look backward & neglected.
@@Dqtubeno need to improve just because it's a small one? That's how you lag behind. Slowly those small changes add up to large ones.
@@016.kazinakibafjal2 What improvement or change ? China is building these lines where there were no high voltage lines. So it's not an improvement, it's a complete new development. So it makes sense for them because then they don't have to maintain the older lines because they don't have them. In most of the G7 countries, there are only a few tens to hundreds of kilometres between the electricity source and the customers, not thousands like in China. So there is no savings or efficiency gains at all over these shorter distances. Just wasted resources that could be used elsewhere.
bit by bit, BRICS are overtaking the former "first world" countries.
welcome to the age of aquarius, the western heydays are soon over !
great vid, but the environmental cost of batteries must be factored in, as per the environmental cost of UHVDC. all those raw materials and manufacturing don't come cheap environmentally or energy wise.
I really enjoyed this presentation. I was concerned you were going to ignore the cost and environment. It took the second half of the video to see the negatives. 🙂
Let it be remember that an Australian consortium was able to get enough investment to plan the "Sun Cable" a undersea cable from Northern Territory to Singapore, a terrible idea that rightfully failed.
Tell it like it is, Rosie!
Right, a rosy picture of the advantages of subsidized wind power....
What about Basslink? And planed Basslink 2 - Marinus connecting Tasmania to VIC Australia?
a cable lasts a lot longer than a rechargeable battery.
Yes, but it's also much faster and easier to build a battery. Getting permission to cross a thousand km of land alone is a big challenge.
But still requires maintenance. Not just the physical hardware, but the land around it. It's important to keep growth off the towers and away from the lines. Spanning thousands of kilometers means a lot of ground to monitor and maintain.
Further, the maintenance of the actual equipment requires highly skilled workers and often times helicopters. Whereas batteries in boxes on the ground take up a lot less space, and all the work can be done while standing firmly on Earth.
@@paulsmyers203 and a battery replacement and recycling factory ))
It's not long life vanadium batteries, but lithium with average lifetime about 7 years.
Oops.
@@MihailG5541 why a 7 years lifespan? Why not 6 years? Or 8 years? Are you sure?
Where you have the battery may not have the space for the solar panels or enough extra power to charge up the battery.
What an excellent breakdown of this. Thanks. I think I am still a believer in the potential in a place like the U.S.. I would like to see the idea of west coast to east coast with a Terawatt of offshore wind assumed on both coasts. Saying that, I know get new transmission across a couple states is taking 10 years for approval today… so cross country feels impossible.
The main reason is that these countries have been deindustrializing in the past and do not need so much electricity. China is the world's factory, so it needs a lot of electricity.
Quebec has most of our hydro up North where "nobody" (with any political power) lives, and most of the population in the South. So it invested in 750 kV AC back in the 1960s and 70s, carrying power 1000+ km. That means we have crews who are familiar with UHVDC-scale voltages. We also have crews familiar with regular HVDC. As our power demands are expected to double, we expect to build a bunch of new generation capacity, and it seems likely we'll have UHVDC lines to those plants.
I was wondering if it would work both ways in Australia. So when Western Australia wakes up could the east provide solar power to help the Western Australia grid with their breakfast needs?
Some HVDC is bi-directional, depending on location and application.
There is no one in Western Australia to use this electricity. Why not skipping the green nonsense of "climate change" and make use of the huge coal reserves?
I don't believe it's necessary. Western Australia can power itself just fine because it has higher wind generation capacity (better winds) and lower population. Meanwhile, most of Australia's population is within 600km of the east coast, and west-to-east transmission would relieve the later hours of peak electricity usage (2PM - 8PM).
@@holgernarrogUHVDC could enable us to power the whole country off of low cost Victorian lignite.
@@gregorymalchuk272 A great opportunity if the green religion would not keep you from doing it.
By the way Germany is in a similar situation but HVDC and 400KV AC is mostly sufficient due to the size of the country with the potential to cover perhaps 30 - 40% of the load.
Another great video Rosie. I have seen a worrying article about possible blackouts due to diminished coal baseload supply here in Australia. Of course the govt response is to ensure gas supplied power is available. So I hope that our federal government is investing heavily in large battery storage as for renewable power to be available reliably and at an acceptable cost they are certainly going to be needed and pretty soon I imagine.
Well researched and a critical assessment.
This is what we need for sensible decisions.
I have a picture of a ghost on a tv.
Bad researched.
There's no any compare to HVDC, phase shift HVAC, hydro pumps and the others.
Just comparison of two very rare techs
Most of your pics and illustrations are 3 phase lines
It was as if somebody was just talking vague fantasies not respecting their audience.
BINGO!
Nicholas Tesla's original invention of DC electricity finally sees the light of his superiority over Thomas Jefferson's AC.
Up to 380kV AC, the air can be used as an insulator between the cables on the masts.
This is also possible up to 650kV DC.
Insulated cables must be used above this. However, insulated cables are more heavy to hang on poles.
The higher the voltage, the greater the distance that must be kept from the power line.
This is difficult to comply with in densely populated areas.
Where did you hear that? That's totally not true, they do not use insulated cables on UHV AC or DC. The arms and insulators are just longer. In fact, that's how you can tell what voltage a HV transmission line is, the length of the insulators. I work in transmission substations, it's all bare conductor from tower to tower.
That's nonsense. Many countries operate 400kV and 500kV AC systems and in some places 765kV AC is used. In the past there was a line operating at 1150kV. None of them have insulated cables and neither do the 800kV DC lines in China.
Phase shift HVAC use the same insulation as usual HVAC, but it can get through x1,5 currents
I didn't realize HVDC and UHVDC was even in place in multiple countries.
Also like your fresh new look.
No... hvdc/uhvdc only a few countries have it, even uhvdc only china is able to build it commercially
awesome explanation Rosie
greetings from Crete,Greece🥰
you guys are about to get a bunch of your very own hvdc lines soon!
"with their tens of thousands of kilometers of installation of this high voltage tech they have largely the risked this technology..." Finally a positive use of the word "de- risk" LOL
Plain 'ol last generation power lines are pretty efficient as it is, even on a coast-to-coast US basis. It sounds like UHVDC would be a field-service nightmare, even if a 2500 miles right-of-way could ever be achieved in America. The real problem is that local go aheads have been obtained for numerous utility scale solar projects all over rural America, but they can't get hooked into even regional grids by any kind of power lines at all. The projects essentially die on the vine.
It's a question.of efficiency and containing losses, as well as reducing the need for syncing.
Beyond about 800 km on a transcontinental link DC pays for itself.
Technology progress they're an animosity that comes with it
Why not the USA and Australia? A: The petrodollar B: The petrodollar and C: capitalism
Na I think it was for the reasons in the video.
And lobbying…. Which is probably under your comment…
Why do people who did not watch the video bother to comment?
and clueless politicians who have too much power and no vision other than trying to win popular votes with bad policies.
“Everything I don’t like is capitalism”
Stop being so intellectually lazy. You’re no better than the free market absolutists that think capitalism is the answer for everything….
2:36 A benefit of a lot of current is that it allows for the use of cables of smaller diameter? I am confused. I was convinced it was just the opposite. You step up the voltage to lower your current, because the higher the current the higher the thermal effect on the cables.
You misheard, she says "a lower current", not "a lot of current", so is correct.
Re sponsor: there is a reason they clear trees under power lines. The footage shows them planting trees under power lines.
Cough, cough, it was just a show, I don't believe they even have the right to plant there, think about it, can you plant anywhere you like.
$2m per km and a bit for substations at either end. Where do I sign.
At that scale you would need N-1 (two lines). Likely multi-terminal to pickup generation along the way etc. Each substation/converter >$200m? Easily more than double the estimate.
Still valid as a thought exercise though.
The US has been too busy fighting wars in the past 30 years - this is their favourite pastime and the reason they have had no money to spend on infrastructure - note that China has not been fighting wars all over the world in the past 30 years - they are now threatening their first altercation in a looong time - with Taiwan - the US is excited to get involved in this to justify thier massive military budget/satisfy the needs of the huge military industrial complex they have created.
George Galloway (UK MP, and the Leader of The Workers Party of Britain):
Taiwan Untangled.
ua-cam.com/video/rVYTugFYols/v-deo.html
2024.05.19 (21:13) (CGTN)
😊
@EngineeringwithRosie
I work on the Muja Power station WA to Kalgoorlie transmission lines, 1,700 towers, and climbed 900 towers.
It is 1,600 km to South Australia's Wudinna sub station. 400m between towers is 4,000 towers.
Plus road access, plus camps, plus transport of materials plus survey and design plus stormy weather and extreme heat, plus ......
Plus maintenance after construction
The Capacity at both ends is small high voltage. Based on the number of customers and demand.
It is the capacity and length that makes the km costs higher. And isolation. And distance to the workface daily.
Now if you wanted new towns along the Great Australian Bite, along the railway line that could be very interesting 😉 😀 😊
Living in the desert and hauling distances add to the basic costs of an East Coast build price.
As battery technologies expand and PV technologies continue to lower supply costs then millions and millions and millions and millions of customers rooftops, all grid connected will look irresistible.
Given every building will have a vehicle big battery parked 23hrs every day.
Selfplug-in V2G EVs 😊😊😊😊😊
The old ideas are distracting.
Australia should get a robotic Tesla vehicle manufacturing factory and run it 24/7.
Australia imports 1million new vehicles annually. 900 vehicles per shift 24/7/365. For 20years. 😊😊
Or 1,800 vehicles for 10 years. 😊
Australia imports all its petroleum.
Thanks for adding your real world experiences! And I agree with your conclusions.
UTILIZATION FACTOR is the nuclear nuts mantra. Hahaha 👍 😆
My point is the UTILIZATION FACTOR for a transnational transmission line maybe very small.
As I keep saying new grid is very expensive. 90% of home electricity bills are grid rental costs.
PART 1, of todays electricity is the generation of electricity.
Every one is lost in generation time wasting now. Most of generation has been discussed.
Nuclear
Distant renewables solar farms
Distant renewables wind farms.
Carbon capture fossil fueled.
Pumped hydro generation.
PART 3, of todays electricity is the customers.
Millions and millions of customers.
PART 2, of todays electricity is the national electrical grid.
The unspoken invisible middle stuff.
Superannuation invested stuff.
The government sold to raise funds stuff.
SILENCE is killing me.
Nuclear will mention it because they want to monopolise it from the existing fossil fueled central generation plants locations.
They say distant Snowy 2 transmission costs are huge, and they are right.
They say distant renewables grid makes renewables costs huge.
They are absolutely SILENT on new grid capacity construction costs as they save Australia from CO2 emissions by expanding the 15% electric energy to 100% electric energy to replace fossil fueled energy Australia uses.
Australia actually imports all its petroleum products and converts them into CO2 emissions.
20million vehicles in 10million homes and all electric. Nuclear say they will top them up with grid electricity or hydrogen fuel.
These out of town experts talking about nuclear energy AND vehicle technology are absolutely amazing people 👏 👌
Expertise beyond understanding.
I have grandchildren and they have children. We both care for Australia but they are both stupid or lying.
Australia has 20million solar PV sites connected to the grid today.
Structural support structures with road access and grid connection.
All installation paid for by the structures owner.
20million buildings begging to be allowed to connect without constraint or limits.
But grid owners know that the grid is fragile and must be protected from over supply. From daily sunlight ✨️ 💛 😌 💖
Thank you for thinking about what I am saying.
We need the 1million km to be discussed.
Nuclear promoters say $1million per km.
Busy streets and energised poles and wires and shift work would not be cheaper than $1million per km in busy streets.
I have priced shift work.
Rosie you have a better way than me to speak on this matter.
When I say stuff is invisible I include the number of poles on the streets and at street corners, try counting them.
Hahaha 👍
UTILIZATION FACTOR is the nuclear nuts mantra. Hahaha 👍 😆
My point is the UTILIZATION FACTOR for a transnational transmission line maybe very small.
As I keep saying new grid is very expensive. 90% of home electricity bills are grid rental costs.
PART 1, of todays electricity is the generation of electricity.
Every one is lost in generation time wasting now. Most of generation has been discussed.
Nuclear
Distant renewables solar farms
Distant renewables wind farms.
Carbon capture fossil fueled.
Pumped hydro generation.
PART 3, of todays electricity is the customers.
Millions and millions of customers.
PART 2, of todays electricity is the national electrical grid.
The unspoken invisible middle stuff.
Superannuation invested stuff.
The government sold to raise funds stuff.
SILENCE is killing me.
Nuclear will mention it because they want to monopolise it from the existing fossil fueled central generation plants locations.
They say distant Snowy 2 transmission costs are huge, and they are right.
They say distant renewables grid makes renewables costs huge.
They are absolutely SILENT on new grid capacity construction costs as they save Australia from CO2 emissions by expanding the 15% electric energy to 100% electric energy to replace fossil fueled energy Australia uses.
Australia actually imports all its petroleum products and converts them into CO2 emissions.
20million vehicles in 10million homes and all electric. Nuclear say they will top them up with grid electricity or hydrogen fuel.
These out of town experts talking about nuclear energy AND vehicle technology are absolutely amazing people 👏 👌
Expertise beyond understanding.
I have grandchildren and they have children. We both care for Australia but they are both stupid or lying.
Australia has 20million solar PV sites connected to the grid today.
Structural support structures with road access and grid connection.
All installation paid for by the structures owner.
20million buildings begging to be allowed to connect without constraint or limits.
But grid owners know that the grid is fragile and must be protected from over supply. From daily sunlight ✨️ 💛 😌 💖
Thank you for thinking about what I am saying.
We need the 1million km to be discussed.
Nuclear promoters say $1million per km.
Busy streets and energised poles and wires and shift work would not be cheaper than $1million per km in busy streets.
And 100% clean electricity is ×7 more !!!!
I have priced shift work.
Rosie you have a better way than me to speak on this matter.
When I say stuff is invisible I include the number of poles on the streets and at street corners, try counting them.
Hahaha 👍
Tempting to "chase the sun" but it just doesn't quite add up, as the battery comparison shows. Would be nice to have another hour or two. Maybe with superconducting lines in the future. But i guess its still satisfying icing on the cake for any long west to east lines. It seems like whatever your cool green energy idea, grid scale li-ion will probably undercut it.
I suspect within a year or two grid scale batteries won't be lithium anymore. There are lots of chemistries that are cheaper and about to leave the lab.
You need 40 days of storage in order for it to be competitive with conventional generation and be sustainable.
@@gregorymalchuk272 The depends on the climate and I recall in one of her previous videos Rossie said that Australia doesn't have the long periods of Dunkelflaute, times without sun and wind, that other places do, so they don't need as much storage.
@@Decarbonize11 Yes fingers crossed lots of new bat tech out of lab into the pilot commercial scale phase, exiting times, 6-8 hour storage will be pretty much solved if it isn't already. On to the tricky weekly seasonal stuff.
Good video. One point to add regarding battery as an alternative: it has a fixed life span, e.g. 5000 cycles, which translates to 5-15 years depending on usage condition. This one factor could mean battery farm is cost prohibitive.
UHVDC: Edison’s vindication
You're getting confused between Transmission and Distribution.
No, it's not. Edison was competing against emerging remotely derived hydro AC technology which was able to be stepped up and down in voltage in order to facilitate efficient transmission. That was clever stuff, back in the day. Edison wanted to continue with locally generated low voltage DC because that was all his technology could produce. His reluctance to accept AC transmission was purely for commercial reasons. Keep in mind that at its peak there were hundreds of power stations dotted all over New York burning coal to produce electricity just for lighting. It was big business.
The technology did not exist in the early years of last century to facilitate UHVDC. It's really only in the post war era that HVDC transmission has been able to be realised, let alone UHVDC. Edison didn't stand a chance. It couldn't be done.
Edison would’ve loved this, he had a big thing about DC.
What is the actual difference between HVDC and UHVDC? Is it that the lines are insulated? But then our subsea HDVC lines are insulated. Can't just be the voltage, must be some physical difference...
The functional difference is the higher voltage, but then there's a bunch of technical challenges that get harder with higher voltage so yes you need better insulation amongst other things.
Terminology, depending on what standards organization you want to follow HV is generally lower than 300kV, then 300kV to 760kV would be EHV (extra high voltage) and UHV is over 760kV. But most people just call any EHV line an HV line and not until UHV do they call it out.
And yes, of course as voltage goes up so do the insulation, switching, fault interruption etc... requirements and technology to handle the higher voltages.
For overhead, the insulators get longer and distance to structures and between phases increases, but still bare conductors. For underground, usually more insulation around the conductor and a physically larger overall cable. Better termination systems and more skill to install said terminations.
How you make those batteries in Australia?
For the love of sanity, cut out the annoying repetitive sound effects.
i take my question back. at 4:57 you show the Brasil UHVDC line which show 6 wires spreaded out with a star for one line. Is the other side the line back or do they use earth as common GND and is is basically another UHVDC line. By the way on other big low voltage DC systems the Cathodic corrosion protection of big steel installation (i.e. pipeline) can be affected.
The Brazil Amazon basin hydro power is only seasonal power delivery because of low water impoundment and low height. There is a lot of concern this well know situation will be leveraged to hugely increase reservoir size in the future to create water reserves for year round demand electric power flooding many times the current size.
UHV transmission and energy storage devices are not in conflict; in fact they always appear as twins. There are hundreds of pumped storage plants under construction in China, along with various other forms of energy storage centers.
Bedankt!
Thank you!
I've heard before that Australia is going to sell solar generated electricity to Singapore and I think that will need the UHVDC to transfer.
She mentioned it in another video about HVDC, that video is about 10 months ago. They maybe using HVDC instead of UHVDC.
Pakistan also has 2 UH VDC Transmission line 2000MW and 4000 MW linking Mitari to Lahore 2400 KM away
Long transmission lines are needed because the sun doesn't always shine everywhere, even in Austrailia.
The general structure should be batteries at both ends of the transmission line.
Australia, USA, and China are large enough to take advantage of that the sun almost always shrines somewhere. The rest is what batteries are for.
Long electrified railways from the West to the East can effectively balance power peaks by schedule.
USA and China has some, but not Australia.
Could we have uhvdc between saudi Arabia and indis so that solar PV produced could be used between these countries, gaining from time difference?
Sabotaging a UHVDC line would be simple, and the result exceedingly violent, bright and hot. I don't like the idea of vulnerable and potentially very hazardous powerlines stretching thousands of miles across the country. With AC power simple fuses and circuit breakers work fine but with DC it is very hard to open a large circuit and quench the resulting arc. Very serious business indeed.
This discussion has been long overdue … thx
I think it would receive far less political opposition if we co-located these new lines along railroad and highway right of ways. We’ve already done that with a couple of HVDC lines.
for ac or dc the current decreases with a higher voltage for a given wattage. If uhvdc suffers less loss in transport then its more efficient to use for other dc applications rather than converting dc-ac-dc
Not sure....might be UHVDC between UK and EU?
Any country that needs it should develop it. No country is presenting others from doing so.
Excellent thank you
I think the link Norway to UK is UHVDC
No it's 515kV
你不会以为欧洲人想建就建吧？特高压输电是需要高科技的，欧洲人即使研发20年都不见得能搞出来，目前世界上只有中国能做到
The xlinks project for an HVDC link from Morocco to UK which you mention in an earlier video is going for 500kv. If UHVDC is better is the issue cost? Or is it that the proposed solar and wind in Morroco is not big enough to justify a higher capacity cable?
Very interesting. The technology is completely proven; in Manitoba the 'Bipole 1' and 'Bipole 2' hydro lines operate at 500KV over 900km, which is not widely known. Wikipedia says "A large portion of the energy generated on the Nelson river is transmitted south on the HVDC Nelson River Bipole system. The two transmission lines BIPOLE I and BIPOLE II, each nearly 900 km long, operate at ± 450 kV and ± 500 kV DC, with converter stations at Gillam and Sundance, and the inverter station, Dorsey, near Rosser. The combined capacity of the two HVDC lines is 3420 MW, or about 68% of the total generation capacity in the province. A third HVDC line, BIPOLE III was completed July 4, 2018. At a cost of $4.7B, it carries 2000 MW capacity over 3076 towers and 1384 km. Two new converter stations were built at Keewatinohk on the Nelson River and at Riel east of Winnipeg." However, there is a dark side not to the transmission mechanism, but to the hydro generation, which has devastated Indigenous land and peoples. That said, the transmission system itself is perfectly feasible and I've never understood why the rest of the world continues to rely on less efficient and arguably more harmful AC transmission systems.
So thanks for tipping us off about China!
i have a question. If you build an electric grid today from scratch, would you use AC or DC, How do today's dc-dc converters compare with transformers on short/medium distances?
solar/wind produce DC directly (wind through converting unstable AC to DC anyway {and then again conversion DC-AC).
(in dc reactive power didn't exist, 95% can run on DC or already run on dc. Like all electronics, variable speed/torque drivers for AC motors, light bulbs)
you forgot the combination of UHVDC + Sydney batteries, more cost but does at least extend the power availability time. you're paying more but have much more capacity.
1. The US has a HVDC that has been running for decades -- the Pacific Intertie, bringing the hydropower on the Columbia River 800 miles to Southern California. The link has had earthquake and other problems --- it failed shortly after being fired-up because of the Sylmar earthquake and then again after a fire at the Sylmar station, then again because of the Northridge earthquake.
2. US cities REALLY hate having power generation near them. San Francisco shutdown its last generating station and built a "long underwater extension cord" (the TransBay Cable).
3. UHVDC and HVDC only make sense when the distance is long AND there is no need to tap into the cables along the way (the converter stations are a significant expense. Trains are economical transportation only when you space the stations far enough apart.)
Correction: China doesn't have landowners, only land tenancy, All the land belongs to the Chinese state.