Examples of Christophanies: How to find Jesus in the Old Testament pt 5
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- Опубліковано 18 жов 2024
- Methodical study of multiple passages in the Old Testament that seem to present examples of Christ showing up before the incarnation. This is part 5 of the long series "How to Find Jesus in the Old Testament" which seeks to build a biblically sound case for seeing Jesus in typology and other ways throughout the Old Testament. Here is a link to the full playlist (which is being added to almost every week at the time I write this). • How to Find Jesus in t...
Here's the link to the video I mentioned where I explain how Christophanies do not challenge the doctrine of the incarnation. • Who Is the Angel of th...
A little tidbit regarding the "sound of the Lord walking in the garden"....an Israeli friend of ours who is a Messianic Jew (and has some amazing insights since he reads his Bible in Hebrew) said that the word "sound" can be translated as "word". Adam heard the Word of the Lord walking in the garden. I think that's super cool.
🤩
Very!!!
Just like I think it’s in Jeremiah 23 most transactions says the word of the Lord came to me. In my NET bible it says the message of the Lord came to me.
That makes me think of John 1:1 "in the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God and the Word was God."
Man that’s kinda dope
you teach like an aged master and yet how young and blessed you are and how gentle
Mike, this teaching filled me with wonder and awe for God, something I had prayed for recently, so thank you for that!
Great high level theology on a reachable shelf, as always. Thanks for doing this and sharing it with us.
Great description of his deep but understandable teaching.
Joshua's encounter with The Captain of The Lord of Hosts is one of my favorite passages. It gives me goose bumps just as big today as when it grabbed me in my youth.
Hey Mike i recently found your channel and have been just binge watching your videos. I cant tell you how much I appreciate a pastor whos a charismatic but actually presents the scripture as it is and not how it fits your beliefs (the fact that you even admit that you could be wrong blows my mind) too often I've found pastors who deliberately twist scripture to fit their sermon, especially in the charismatic movement and its been such a fresh breath of air to watch a true apologist/theologian. As a quick question my desire is to get a degree in biblical theology, history and apologetics. Do you have any reading recommendations by non biased christian scholars?
Tim G I didn’t know he was a charismatic . I just watch the videos and not focus on the denomination
I agree! He's smart and thorough AND keeps our attention! It is quite refreshing. :)
I admit, I too have been 'binge watching' Mike's teachings!! I haven't had access to such a brilliant verse by verse teaching since my early days of conversion, when my pastor was a Messianic Jew!! I also love that Mike is never dogmatic about what he teaches. I am passing along his contact information to many friends who are hungry for good solid biblical teaching.
I've never binge-watched sermons before, but the Lord is always changing me. Praise him for Mike Winger, to equip us with the truths of the Gospel.
I recommend Dr. Michael Heiser. God bless🙏🏼
Iam binge watching this whole playlist , thank you
Ive spent so much time crying through these videos because of the amazing revelations. Thank you for taking the time to make these. Im looking forward to watching the rest.
Amen! Couldn't agree with you more! H u g e blessing. Jeesh I wish I had Mike's biblical thinking mind! Riveting!
This Pastor never asks for a penny.
I watch any adverts though to end to help you @Mike Winger .... I would Superchat for sure, so would 350k others lol. That would be wild 20 Questions! Your heart for no money is pure lovely in this WOF NAR money money money teachings. Sigh. Do a t-shirt? If wasn't in UK I would buy! Blumin postal taxes. God bless Sarah and Mods too 🙏 ❤
Mike, this is profound content, Jesus throughout the bible, and I appreciate your treatment of the subject. Thank you for sharing your research with us.
All of mikes videos give me such excitement for the Bible. His excitement is contagious. Thank you God for your servant Mike Winger. He’s such a blessing to your peoples:)
Oh Mike dear brother I learned a lot from you! I also got answers to questions that caused confusion in me. I thank God for your life. Blessings!
Thank you for teaching Mike, it’s such a blessing. So many of these passages were confusing to me and I knew there was more to it. I get it now, and I love it, it’s so beautiful, the Bible is the most amazing book ❤️ this makes me want to devour more of it!
Just found your channel, and I’m already learning so much. It’s easy to follow your teaching style! Liked and subbed. I can’t wait to learn more !! Much love from Florida.
Charles Lawson sermons in the evening, Mike Winger bible study in the morning...or vice versa, I highly recommend for any bible believing Christian.
Thought you meant David Pawson until I searched...
Didn't know there was another me out there, been teaching this for 30 years, The Bible is a revelation of Jesus cover to cover, not just a collection of stories in which to draw object lessons to live our daily life !
Very much enjoying this series. I'd love to hear you discuss Joseph in the book of Genesis. In my limited knowlege of Christianity, it's the most beautiful picture of Jesus in the entire bible, Old and New Testament.
What do you think about Joshua? I like him a lot.
Pastor Mike, you can actually write an entire book around this topic already :-) Thank you for your ministry! Learning a lot! :-)
Hi Mike, just discovered your videos and loving them. Learning a lot. I just read Ezekiel 1 of God coming in glory with fire, clouds, light and strange creatures and then Ezekiel sees a human figure that represents God. Do you think that would be Jesus too???
once you "see" it, it's so obvious and you just smack your forehead and say, "duh" - better yet, it's sooooo cool to see this in the OT. the full proof that Jesus is Yahweh results in proving that the entire bible truly is ALL about Jesus. sweet, man. God bless you, Mike.
Mike, I am so glad you talked about two of my favorite stories about this topic. Jacob in genesis 32 and the fiery furnace. I love how excited you get about the Bible and what God is revealing to us. I get the same way when I consistently get into scripture and study on a regular basis. God bless you and your ministry. I appreciate you very much. I wish one day I could sit down with you and talk about the word of God and maybe make some movies that accurately represent what God is doing and saying.
Thank you Pastor Mike
22:30 I’ve built a translation via AI using the oldest records of Hebrew and Greek and this comment of yours made me delight, because I flipped there in my translation and it said indeed “YHWH” in those places rather than The LORD
Thanks Pastor Mike
Never noticed it before, but as soon as you mentioned Joshua worshiping the Commander of the Lord's Army was thinking "He didn't stop Joshua from worshiping." Then you go on to explain it yourself.
Excellent point!
I know I'm late to the party, but fantastic study so far!
thanks so much for your careful study and insight from the old testament, such a blerssing!
I have fallen utterly in deep love with my Savior Jesus Christ, my precious Father and the Holy Spirit. Blessed be the Name.of the Most High God. Praise the Lord, all who dwell on the Earth. 🥰✝️👍🏻❤️👑🌈🤩😍💌
Lovin this stuff!!! So good!! Thankyou so much!!❤🙏✝️
This is just so awesome, thanks Mike!
Excited to see how many people are learning from you.
Why is this not the most viewed series on his channel? Such good truth I longed to understand. I think one of the biggest questions we should have as Christians is: "How does our Lord Jesus of the NT fit with the old testament, and why couldn't the Jews see this truth?" This dives into those truths, and some of the points made in these videos may be the very things that Paul used to reason with the Jews in the synagogues.
John 12:37
Isaiah 53:1
Isaiah 6:10
Isaiah 6:1
Genesis 3:8
Anthropomorphism
Theophony
Genesis 18:1
Genesis 19:1
Amos 4:11
Genesis 32:24
Hosea 12:3
Joshua 5:13
- Revelation 19:10
- Acts 10
Exodus 3:5
Exodus 23
Explanatory Scope vs. Power
Daniel 3:19
how Awesome is the Word of God
I love the 4th man in the fire and the idea that he's "the angel of the LORD" which would be "the Son" everlasting. The fire, because he is in it seems to be exactly like the fire of the burning bush where the angel of the LORD appeared to Moses. I love the depth of scripture and I've often wish I had a desire to look deeper into it in my younger days😔but I can't go back. Love your teachings pastor Mike!
Just loved this! I wonder why you left out Jacob’s ladder at Bethel.
Loved Jacob’s wrestling...finally understood wrestled with man...Thank you! Where is your church?
Awesome! Thank you Mike
Hey mike I’m loving these studies. I’m looking at going to school for Old Testament studies do you have any recommendations?
Hi Pastor Mike. Have you bought a Legacy Standard Bible for yourself? The translators have properly translated back from the usage LORD to Yahweh.
This teaching is exciting. God is relational within Himself! That's amazing! God reveals Himself to All who are looking for Him. The LORD Jesus said in Matthew 11, "No man knows the Son but the Father and no man knows the Father but the Son and those to whom He chooses to reveal Him .
Mike, thanks for this great teaching again! Christophanies is from Greek into English. I wonder what it would be from Hebrew into English? Mashiach Ra’ah, or maybe even Mashiach Torah? God "appeared" to Abraham in Genesis 18:1 using the word ra’ah, “to see with the potential of being instructed by what you see.” And Torah means instruction, which God shows. I like how you say how it all connects together to see Jesus in the TaNaKh / OT, because it does! The design is so rich and pervasive that it is clearly the Hebrew Scriptures' goal is to showcase Yeshua / Jesus - specifically His Spirit moving through chosen people - in many various ways and modes.
The thing that blew my mind and made me go ??? with Abraham and the three men in Yahwah was how quickly he knew one was God. Like no doubt or question. He really had a close relationship with God.
Melchizedek returns in the final day's. I tell you the truth.
Shalom ❤
Very interesting theophanies.
Thank you so much for sharing this 😊
Jesus definitely appears in the Old Testament. Jesus even implies it himself:
"For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me"~ John 5:46
" Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad"~ John 8:56
.... thank you.... really nicely stated !
Vic
Thanks Vic, it’s good to hear from you!
Great teaching! It may not be your musical style but you should check out Hazakim's "Theophanies" album. It has really helped me memorize the biblical verses when talking about this topic with others. Plus any hip hop album that features Michael Brown, Todd Friel, and even Ken Ham is at least worth listening to once.
Thank you for your online ministry!
Also I'm sorry to reply to my own post but I tend to disagree with your Daniel Christophany. It's based on the statement made by Nebuchadnezzar (verse 25) however it is later refuted by him in verse 28 with no correction given that would imply that it wasn't just an angel. Just my two cents!
@@jimamberg9467 - After reading your comment , I went back and read v 25 & v 28 ,,, as you know , in 25 he said " a Son of God " ,, in 28 " his angel " ,, I think the fact that Nebuchadnezzar said " sent his angel " , doesn't confirm it was just an angel , it only states what he said ,,, it might yet be a Christophany .. I am keeping an open mind about this situation ,, could be either .. Who knows , you might be correct ,, I suppose we will find out in Heaven , haha .. Have a great day Bro !! God Bless
Ken Ham in an album? I will have to check it out!
Hi mike i have two questions please first I was wondering if you were/are/or have done a study on Angels especially Micheal the archangel and what his relationship/position is to Jesus. And were can I find a true hebrew bible I looked in the interlininer bible but the "looks like the son of the gods" came up to looks like the son of God. Didnt know how it's being translated. Thx and I really enjoy and appreciate your help. God bless.
I watched this three years ago and again today. When you'd say "theophany", you also called it a "Christophany." (e.g. Gem 3:8,10) That confuses me as to how to distinguish the two. Thanks in advance if you can explain.
The KJV says the Voice of God is walking. So that make more sense why it should be Jesus :)
Q 4:30 so is this a reply to Psalm 115 verses 2 to 8 where the nations are dull of hearing dull of being able to smell that not able to speak, Etc?
Mike why didn’t you included verse 28 in Daniel chapter 3 when talking of the furnace episode?
I think I will buy the Bible called The Jesus Bible, in the NIV version. Thank you for the sermon.
What was the old Hollywood movie you’re talking about with Abraham and the angels?
He wrestled with God and WON. It was a win/win because God wanted to bless him already. His will and God's will collided. God just needed him to get the right attitude, which happened as soon as he touched his hip and it went out of socket. He wasn't going to overpower God the way he did Esau. But when he held on to God and wouldn't let go and he asked his name, that was the correct response.
Odds are Mike you wont see this. But God Bless you and thank you for all your hard work and faithful service for the Lord and the Lords people.
One of those strange things I found.
The Literal successor of Moses was JOSHUA.
And Jesus Hebrew name is
JOSHUA
And Joshuas name was not originally that. It was Hoshea. It is only later that Moses Changes his name to Joshua...
Good review, brother. Just a word semantic, but "Theophany" disagrees with the Scripture you shared (and many that you didn't) about no one having seen the Father and the comment that nothing was created without Him. Jesus (Yeshua in Hebrew), it would seem, is indeed the "YHVH" of the OT, but that doesn't mean that "YHVH" of the OT is the Father.
This whole "trinity" doctrine is a little more complicated than most christians explain it as maybe? How can the Father be the Son when Jesus said the Father is Greater than Him and no one has seen the Father?
If Yeshua/ Jesus was the "YHVH" at Mt Sinai that gave Moses the commandments, that changes things a little, doesn't it?
When prophets say "the Word of YHVH came to me" don't we now see that it was Yeshua/ Jesus that came to our prophets of old? Thoughts?
One thought ,, when Jesus said " the Father is greater than I " ,, maybe Jesus meant , in Jesus' humanity the Father was greater than him ,, one more thought - we know there is " God the Father " , " God the Son " , and " God the Holy Spirit " ,, so could it mean God is greater than him administratively ? Im just thinking out loud , haha .. God Bless You HomeGroups !
The last time I had an experience with God I thought I was done. He was so powerful I thought I was going to die. Then when He said "be at peace" I was in perfect peace. But after experiencing just even a piece of His power, I thought to myself " what makes Satan think coming against God was a good idea" God is a one man Nuke.
Good Job!!
Yes! You are literally the FIRST person I hear pronounce the name Abednego correctly (41:54 minutes). Normally people flip the D and the N, saying Abendego.
The sound of pronouncing Abendego is hilarious lol
How to find Jesus in the old testament, go to genesis 1:1, "in the begining God created the heaven and the earth" Jesus is God, Jesus is the creator, in my opinion every time God speaks in the old testament, it should be highlighted in red letters also
Amen and Amen, brother!
Mike I'm sure you know about the LSB, I'm not sure when it came out. It's funny you should comment that it would be neat to see Yaweh in the text instead of the LORD, and they do that in the LSB!
Researching further into the LSB, I do not endorse. While it may be an ok translation, I would recommend the ESV.
I know it’s just a show and most likely inaccurate, but in the Bible miniseries when they told the story of Genesis 18, the guy who played Jesus was with two angels. His face wasn’t shown though.
I thought that was done fantastically. However I thought them placing Michael as the commander of the Lords army in Joshua 6 was not accurate in my understanding
Hey brother Mike, I believe KJV had it right about Daniel 3 because that shows why Nebuchadnezzer wrote Daniel chapter 4 because he believed on God and was changed.
Furthermore Isaiah says as YHWH speaking, “When you pass through the waters,
I will be with you;
and when you pass through the rivers,
they will not sweep over you.
When you walk through the fire,
you will not be burned;
the flames will not set you ablaze. 43:2
Hi... in Amos 4 v11(NIV) does not translate like that; Help me😵
Mike! What's with all these decorations?
This week my church is running a kids outreach program so they took over the room and decorated it to fit the theme.
Mike wants to be like sponge Bob Square pants. ;) He just needs the 🍍
You know listening to this it's like when people say Jesus always refers to God as the third person like he talks to God and they say "if Jesus is God why does he talk to himself as though a third person" well the Old Testament proves time and time again that the Angel of the Lord is God and he talks about God about himself in the third person
Yea, I'm amazed. It's like when a movie gets ret-conned, but it's actually better than it was ! Lol
The "Arm of the LORD" is the Hebrew letter "Yod" Yod is the smallest letter and is present in all the letters. Letters make up words. Everything is a word. John says the Word was with God and the Word was God and nothing was made without Him that was made. And where does the Son sit? At the "right hand of the Father"
Thanks Pastor Mike🙏🏼❤️
The NKV has a footnote for Daniel 3:25 that gives the more accurate translation.
I’m have soo many questions..I’m soo late to this topic😭🤦🏾♂️
Abraham Sarah and the Three: could Abraham's actions be the expected rituals of nomadic hospitality?
There are two references that are clearly about jesus and a general one that is about jesus as well as others. The two references to jesus are from Zecharya chapter 13 which states "And also the prophets and the spirit of contamination I will remove from the earth." This is jesus. The second reference is from Daniel chapter 11 which states "and the sons of the renegades of your people will exalt themselves to bring about the vision but they will fail." This too is jesus. The unexclusive yet also correct reference to jesus comes from Deut. chapter 13 which states "If there will arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of a dream, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder of which he spoke to you happens, [and he] says, "Let us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us worship them," you shall not heed the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of a dream; for the Lord, your God, is testing you, to know whether you really love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul." This too is jesus. However unlike the first two this is not exclusive to jesus.
A timely video
Again, with all respect. The three men in Genesis 18:1-3 were all called Adonai (plural form of YHVH) from the Hebrew and even in Genesis 19 Lot called the two messengers by the plural form of YHVH, namely Adonai. All three men were YHVH in Hebrew. I am not sure you understand enough Hebrew to see this fact. This is why Genesis 19:24 has three YHVH in the verse.
There are even Rabbinic Jewish scholars who agree with this understanding.
That's right. Meaning the 3 "men", were called by God's name because they were angels/messengers that visited Abraham under His authority and as His representatives or agents. The Law of Agency is something that really needs to be studied, it would clear up so much confusion around angel appearances in the OT. Also need to study the words in the OT and NT that have been translated by the one word, "Worship" in English. Very eye opening and gives much food for thought and further study.
@@faithreasons3041 You actually think Messenger can be called YHVH? 🤦♂️
@@dralgarza Why the facepalm? Isn't that what YOU are admitting to? Read over your own comment again. Then read Genesis 18:22, 19:1, 13, 18, 24. Therefore, since we know the word angel means messenger, and since the bible clearly shows that angels as messengers appeared in the form of men, and since we know the patriarchs recognised these as representatives or agents of YHVH/THE LORD, and addressed them as such, it is reasonable to conclude that YES, these messengers acting in His name of or under His authority, are called YHVH.
@@faithreasons3041 Apparently you can’t read Genesis 18:1 of who actually appeared.
@@dralgarza I suggest you do some research on the Principle of Agency in the Hebrew scriptures. All the best with it. :-)
I agree
Jesus is revealed in the Old Testament more than we believe
No one can see LORD (all caps, referring to YHWH ) and live. Lots of places in Old Testament where Jews feared death, as they thought they saw LORD, but had only seen "Lord"- not all caps, referring to Lord Jesus- hence they lived. Same in Isaiah 6.1, it refers to Lord Jesus - IN the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
You know when Jesus said John the baptist was Elijah but people didn't recognise him, was that literally Elijah? Does God actually reboot dead people back into reality via natural birth? If so are there any other examples of that in the bible?
It was not literal Elijah, John went in the spirit of Elijah, i.e in the way of operation; just like Elijah turned the Israelites from Baal to the living God, John was to turn the hearts of the Jews back to God (Jesus). Luke 1:17, Malachi 4:5.
Personally, I believe Jesus is outside of linear time. It's like he has Doc Brown's Delorian. Only better. I see him in several places in the ot and he IS the human presence of God, not one of many. This was an issue I had with The Shack.
Rob Wells - Interesting point ,, I am giving this much thought .
Jesus is outside of time, but he can enter into our plain and communicate, but yes he is not contingent on it like we are.
Do you think Hagar had a Christophany in Gen 16?
I’m trying to understand where James is the brother of Jesus or if he is the son of another Mary. “When the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him.”
Mark 16:1 ESV
I would think Mark would have said Mary the mother of Jesus and James or say the mother of Jesus-but he said mother of James.
Could the term brother have another meaning during that era? I can’t find anything that shows Jude as a brother either.
Yet, Matthew 1 “When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife, but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.”
Matthew 1:24-25 ESV
Joseph did not “know” Mary UNTIL she had given birth to Jesus. So it’s very likely Jesus would have had brothers and sisters.
I believe there are 2 James in the new testament.
Matthew 4:21
And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee...
Matthew 13:55
Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
In the Matthew verse if you look at the Greek, the name Judas is actually the same Greek name for Jude! That was really cool to realize.
Every other one of your videos I really enjoyed, but this one I'm just having too much trouble with. Gen 18:10 the Hebrew does not say Yahuah, it says "and he said" like the KJV translates. Let's not go adding what's not there! Regardless of how you interpret it, it says what it says.
That's what Mike said. Gen 18:10 says "he" but 18:13 says "Yahweh" - both saying "I will return to you at the appointed time next year, and Sarah will have a son." It's obviously Yahweh speaking in 18:10.
biblehub.com has for any given Bible passage the Hebrew characters and Hebrew words in our alphabet with the English translation of each word. It’s easily accessed by a google search of a section of scripture followed by the word “interlinear.” For example, “Genesis 1 interlinear” or, more specifically if desired, “Genesis 1:5 interlinear.” Or you can download the Bible Hub app.
Why would John being a new creature in Christ try to worship an angel?
Probably because of the overwhelming nature of the visions, he just made a mistake. He had seen the glorious Son of Man in chp. 1 and fell at His feet. The angel in 19 was probably reflecting the glory of God so he just made a mistake.
25:10 since he fills the heavens and the Earth JeremiAH 23:24, it is very feasible that HE stayed there while HE was pouring it down. This would show that HE is in charge all the time.
In Genesis 3
In Genesis 32
John 12:37
Joshua 5
It all makes sense,
Im started to now think that it was Jesus’s Hands that created Adam from the soil of the Earth
Didn't Isaiah see Gods glory in Gods throne room when his robe filled the room?
Thank you so much for saying it out load! Yes! Jesus/Yeshua is Yahweh! If you look at the language in Isaiah 12:2, it says that God is my Yeshua; Strong's H3444. It's everywhere. Also, Yahweh describes Himself as our Redeemer and Saviour, "the only one". He also makes many other "Jesus-like" statements such as "I am the first and the last". Equal to Alpha and Omega in the book of Revelation. Who is Revelation a "revelation" of? Jesus, Who is Yahweh or visa versa.
Ezekiel 1:24-28 King James Version (KJV)
24 And when they went, I heard the noise of their wings, like the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech, as the noise of an host: when they stood, they let down their wings.
25 And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings.
26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.
27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.
28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.
The wind
Wiuld it be more proper to call Him Christ or Christ the Messiah instead of Jesus in the old testament.
In John 12:41-42 John identifies the YHWH he saw on the throne as Jesus. So it would seem that both names are appropriate. Also see Jude vs 5.
You missed Jesus In Daniel 8.
Dear brother Mike, the gospel of John, in any part, is not "John's commentary". It is "all" the word of God. See John 14:26 "...whatsoever I have said unto you." or "all things". Therefore, it cannot be a commentary.
Mike would never say that John's commentary is anything less than the God breathed Scripture. All the gospel writers use commentary, but their commentary is divinely inspired. "Holy men of God spoke as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." 2 Peter 1:21
So John's commentary is also the Holy Spirit's commentary.
Absolutely!
Talbert Sherman please give me more than you. pastor
❤
22:30 Translate the Hebrew instead of using the word LORD. HalleluYah Scriptures!
Daniel´s 3 friends and their faithfulness caused the 4th One to appear and Nebuchadnezzar to call out,... "servants of the Most High God" ,
HEARD IT
I know that you probably don't recognise the Book of Tobit as canonical but... The father sends the son on mission to redeem something. Angels involved. The son overcomes the forces of evil and saves a bride with whom he is subsequently united.