Seriously, HD keeps the old-school cruiser style bikes, buell makes sports bikes, adv, electric, and nakeds. It is a great way to structure the company
1 - HD killed itself by: Not making a naked muscle bike (Bronx) 2 - Overpricing the livewire to the point that it was unsellable even though people wanted it badly. 3- killing the Vrod line-up 4) overpricing the lowriders s and st so that the young people who want it can't buy it.
Honestly, they tried to get in bed with Gen A and that backfired so hard they backpedaled themselves into a free fall of apologies. They seem to have lost touch with their identity because their identity was cool back in my dad’s generation (boomers). I’m Gen X, I prefer BMWs. Millennials usually love Triumphs (you get that British-hooligan vibe) and sportier rides (not all, but several I’ve talked bikes with). Gen Z and A? Umm. I don’t know. I don’t really associate with them and I don’t really know that they want? Neither does Harley. They know they’re big on gender identity, and that seems to be about it… so they ran with it and ended up with the only fan base they actually got setting fire to their bikes in protest (wish I couldn’t say literally… but literally).
Every time they do make a change, what do the HD riders say? Look at all the great Asian bikes that FAILED due to being ahead of their time? There ARE people that can't get it through their heads that they no longer make 55-57 Chevys.
This is exactly how I feel about KTM with their 490/501 platform of parallel twin bikes. They had even announced a release date, then canceled the entire project shortly before it was supposed to ship to dealers. I personally think that decision is a big part of why they are struggling now, and I wish they had learned from Harley's example instead of emulating it.
What real R&D needed to be done? If only there were a company, they could consult that knew how to make light weight, sporty, and great handling motorcycles with HD engines. Oh yeah, Buell.
Had Harley brought out a genuine Ducati Monster competitor , I might very well have bought one. The Monster is the bike that saved Ducati. I'm actually hoping to pick one up next month.
The Bronx that never was, the cancellation of the V-Rod, the end of LiveWire...these are all just echoes of their *actual* biggest mistake. Eric Buell designed the FXR, the best handling H-D to that point, then put them on the sportbike map with his ground-breaking Buell motorcycles. Then H-D announced to the world that they were myopic and mentally challenged when they cancelled Buell. Not only did they lose a brilliant engineer, they shut the door on anybody who likes to take corners faster than walking speed. Every mistake they've made since then is just more laughing stock for the motorcycling world.
The fact is, the Buells just didn't sell. People don't go to a Harley dealer to buy a crotch rocket. They just don't. And Erick Buell has never claimed to have designed the FXR. He was brought in to make adjustments to fix the handling. He was never interested in cruiser-type motorcycles.
@mrpoizun Buell now sells the Super Cruiser, genius. And now people don't go to a Harley dealership to buy *ANYTHING* except tshirts. That's why H-D, the company, is eating sh!t now. Buell was a way into the future, but chuckleheads would rather watch H-D die than admit their bikes are outdated, obese, and absurdly overpriced.
In the late 1990s and early 2000s, I owned two FXRs (1987 FXRS-SP and 1990 FXRT) and two Buells (1997 "razorback" M2 and 2002 XB9R). Both my Buells were let down by poor build quality and the M2 also needed a zillion recalls for safety modifications. The FXRs made good touring bikes but by then both Dynas and post 1994 Sportsters were better handling. Swapping the XB9R and the FXRT for an R1150RT "pipe & slippers" BMW gave me the comfort of the FXRT with more performance than either of the Buells.
The current state of Harley is what happens when you hire a CEO who has no real love for yout brand and at the same time is completely out of touch with the brand's customer base.
All Harley’s have to look the same, huge Goldwing style cowls and big bags that weight as much as a small car. Let’s be honest no one outside the Harley bubble can tell the between a Streetglide, a Road Glide, a Road King etc
@@SmittyAZyea, I'd imagine you could find a lot of people who ride baggers that don't know a lot about the Softtail line and vice versa. Same as I know people who love Chevy pickups but couldn't tell you anything about Chevy cars, save the Vette.
Harley’s biggest mistake (at least in the past 30 years) was the whole LiveWire program. If you’ve seen five people on a Street 750 that’s five more people than I’ve seen on any LiveWire.
I've seen more people on a Live wire than a Street 750. It was 1. I've seen on guy on a Live wire, he was at the HD dealership getting an update, but I've seen zero people on Street 750 or 500.
The only time I've seen a LiveWire was when I was in Milwaukee for the 120th. They had a few on display outside of the museum. I've never seen one out in the wild.
It was not only India. Harley have a huge cult here in Brazil. We that wanted to have our first HD and were orphans of the 883 were thrilled. But HD Brazil never imported or produced here (HD has a factory here). So the entry-level cruiser niche stayed open until Royal Enfield saw that niche, grabed and run with it.
Harley's biggest mistake was dumping Buell and his brand. Buell Motorcycle was a growing brand in the midst of a shrinking market in the late 00's and were making great bikes. Harley had all of the sporty bike expertise already and delivered to them on a silver platter in the form of a separate brand that didn't interrupt Harley's heritage-oriented image. They could easily have continued to facilitate Buell to launch a 2-front attack on the heritage and sport/adventure market simultaneously. Maybe company as a whole would be in a better place today.
Buell is like american muscle cars in the form of motorcycles. I like some of their bikes but i hate almost every headlights from the brand.. like ew... Looks beefy then the headlights/face of the bike is so... Ugly. Basically im saying it looks perfect as a track bike.
As A former owner of 11 Buell motorcycles I agree 💯 %. Buell allowed HD to expand into other genres of the bike market without altering their core V Twin production. 2 weeks after winning the Moto America Sportbike series Championship they closed the doors on Buell. I was very angry for a very long time. Here we are almost 25 years later and here we go again. They have the Rev Max bikes and the one missing is the Bronx. I am a very satisfied owner of a 2024 Pan America Special. Its all and much more the bike that the Buell Ulysses was. I owned and rode the hell out two Ulysses. If HD is to survive they have got to come to the realization that their future relies on making mid sized bikes that appeal to the generations that will keep them in business. The Shovelhead and Evo customers are dying off. Time to build affordable and performing mid sized bikes. That fat baggers still have their customers but for how long ?
I had a buell x1 lightning in the uk , unreliable heap of poorly made junk , had a Yamaha mt 01 , fast reliable great. Now have a road king special which is superb.
Hate to say this but with the way things are currently going there is a chance that in the future we will live in a world without Harley Davidson which would be a real shame.
Absolutely. The decision to cancel the Bronx but release the shitster s is just ass stupid. I waited for that “new” engine to come in a bike I actually wanted to spend my hard freaking earned money on, and I’m still waiting! Instead I got a comic book motorcycle and the nightmare bike, which isn’t bad, but I don’t want the smallest engine you make as my only bike, Harley.
That sportser S is horrible to sit on, at least for me at 6'2. I'm bent double if I sit on it. I have no idea why anyone would buy one or what it would be used for. It is looked like it was designed by a 5 year old.
I absolutely 100% would have bought the Bronx. It was there. The RevMax engine is great. It looked AMAZING. To this day, I'm still absolutely poleaxed that they didn't do it.
Hydraulic lifters and a belt drive. That fucking thing would’ve basically been maintenance free. All you need is oil changes and brake pads. It was the first time in my 30 year riding career that I was in the market for a new bike and thinking about a Harley Davidson.
The Bronx is an amazing concept imo. If it was offered with the 1250 motor, I would heavily consider it for my next bike...and by 1250, I mean the full powered version...not cut back/watered down.
There were rumblings of a 150HP 1250 variant. That would have been amazing. I think the Pan Am motor could make that kind of power now with a few tweaks
Dang he just increased the price of these on the used market. Warren Buffet once said (in essence) Most MBAs are dumb, outside of the programming they get in business school they have to clues.
Yeah, the last time was when they allowed a “non motorcycle” company into the fold (AMF). Now they have some euro-trash sneaker executive in charge. No good will come of that.
What ????? Let me guess... You had someone at the post office post your comment because you use Morse Code .... Do you despise amber colored turn signals and believe kick start is life ? Did you turn your back on any technology that came after Hollister ?
Probably. I live in a town (Amsterdam) where they don’t allow to drive your diesel car. So called Climate Zones. In a few years they gonna forbid me to take out my 1995 BMW boxer because it’s not electric.
Willie G is one of the things that held Harley back. While he was king of the cruisers, he couldn't get past them. The VRod was hamstrung from day one, because they put that great engine in a cruiser frame. No one wanted it.
Imagine that V-Rod engine punched out to a 1500. Hide the water cooling like HD hide the water and oil cooling. That bike would really go!!!! It would never happen... Why? Harley make huge profits selling the nonsense aftermarket stuff! Stage 1,2,3...on a 800lb cruiser?...😅 $1000 zorst systems? Performance? It's about noise only! I worked for HD and the buyers were laughed at, ringing bells, financing clothing, never knowing the % rate of the loan. They were truly pathetic. Why not print up T-Shirts with a list of fictional modifications for the guys with more money than sense. They do not know what they bought/have, but will memorize it to speak loudly to anyone that will listen. If they *really* wanted performance and could REALLY handle it, they'd ride Ducati, MV Augusta et al. Harley is such a scam now and fools rush in to feed it.
Thank you! I was looking at this bike online at my local dealership and it was an incredible deal. Now I see why. Also thank you explaining what a Tariff is. Most people didn't understand when this happened a few years ago and the price of steel went up.
Harley has a history of running to big government to penalize competition (Ronald Regan era), rather than innovating. Fortnine did a breakdown on that history. Harley also squashed Alta Motors. For being a "more roads to Harley-Davidson" company, they sure have done their best to bulldoze the roads to other American startups, other competition in the USA, while pricing this 2 wheeled machine out of reach for young people. With all the "rebellion and gangs and violence" portrayals on American TV over the decades, solidifying this imagery in the minds of the masses, it's safe to say no one has done as much harm to the advancement of motorcycles in America as Harley Davidson. We're still one of the least motorcycling nations on the planet.
I had the 1st generation Street 750, the predecessor of this Street Rod model. Did more than 40k Miles on that bike, it was brilliant. Unfortunately the biggest issue was that the 1st few gens came without ABS 😂
💯 Absolutely. Livewire was a massive waste of millions. One by one the worlds major auto manufacturers are backing off of the EVs. I will never own an EV or EM. Instead of trying to reinvent the engine the effort should be in reinventing the fuel that ICEs use to be clean. It can be done.
I love my Street Rod. I turned it into a sort of sport/Cafe cruiser with saddle bags and crash bars. It can hang with any Harley or liter bike. I bought it specifically for its rarity. I have a 2020 in Performance Orange. They made a Street Rod in Performance Orange one year.
My 2009 XR1200 handles very well in the twisty's and it has a good turn of speed, not as good as my old Laverda 1200 had, but I am now forty years older now than when I owned the Laverda.
Having worked in Harley dealerships when this bike came out... They were notoriously problematic! I saw dozens of them come in with catastrophic failure ranging from frames cracking to the engine fully seizing due to bearing failure. In my experience, it was wildly underwhelming on sales numbers. They were designed to be an entry level bike in an effort to appeal to the younger riders to bring city riders to the brand.
The nightster is 481ish lbs wet, harley can build a "light" bike, and the bronx could have been great... but inflating shareholder value was more important
481lbs is still heavy weight because most 600cc and some 1000cc sport bikes weigh less than that.. I dunno the specs but how much HP & torque is the nightster working with?
@novacounciloutsdrs4770 yeah hence the "light"... certainly doesn't compare to an actual sportbike or naked, but its at least a workable weight for what its supposed to be. It puts out around 90 hp and 75ish ft lbs of torque, nothing crazy
My first Harley was a Street 750 coming from sport bikes because at 6'2 I couldn't fit on a Street Rod. I pretty much hated it and ended up trading it in for a Dyna in less than a year.
I love your take on Harley issues. Your tariff statement is incorrect. Honda made 8 different motorcycles in the US until 2009, and yamaha, kawasaki till 2006. Tariffs make companies make there products in America. NAFTA has destroyed manufacturing in the US.
That assumes a company decides to move their production here. Think of how long that would take, to get a factory up and running. In the meantime consumers pay more. That's exactly what happened with HD. They opened a factory in India to skirt the tarriffs entirely but it took years and in the meantime their sales tanked and the people who did buy paid more.
The Bronx was to be my first harley.... I got a triumph since they canceled the bronx. Good thing I did with all the catastrophic engine failure on the new sportsters rofl
Great video. Its information like this that makes me really appreciate my VSTROM 650! More power, more torque, lighter, great seating position, and a whole bunch cheaper!! 😁
The challenge for the Street Rod was it didn't have things that a Harley Davison enthusiast would want, including being made in the US and the traditional styling. Conversely people looking for an easy to own and ride bike without an image association didn't want something with the HD name on it.
Well, they did produce these in the United States for a few years. Mine was made in Kansas City before that plant shut down. The motor and drivetrain are extremely easy to maintain with the belt drive and hydraulic lifters. The only thing is the harley image.
It's a weird bike for sure. Mine's a 2017 Olive Gold. I've never run across one where I live. Harley guys seem to like them, and chicks dig 'em for sure. If you're over 5'8" forget it. You will NEVER fit. You need to change the seat, pegs and bars right away IMHO. The stock pegs are super narrow, and the cat is right under your right boot 🔥The stock bars are super wide and flat, with stupid bar-end (nod to Harley they actually work great) mirrors. The stock seat is perfect for roasting your chestnut(s) on an open fire, in heavy traffic. I bought it as a entry-level bike. $8600. A 2017 Honda 450 dirt bike was starting at $11,000 for instance. It gets really crappy milage and the rear brake is a nightmare. Overall I'm really happy with it. If you're a new rider, then the fueling/drivetrain/clutch will be snatchy until you get used to it. I'd give it 7 out of 10.
Custom builders are turning the PanAmerican into something like the Bronx. They look great. I think the reason HD built the PanAmerica rather than the Bronx was that the Bronx may have been the Edsel of the motorcycle world: the bike everyone said they wanted but that no one bought.
Every other manufacturer makes that exact same ass-in-the-air, 3 feet-of-air-between-the-tire-and-the-fender model that looks stupid as fuq. H-D would be stupid to add another to the pile.
I've seen quite a few when they were out. Not anymore. I always chased them down because I thought someone was riding an old Yamaha Radian. I was always surprise when it was one of those 500-750 HD's.
The Street Rod is not the reason. Price is the reason. Harley could not charge enough for it to maker it sufficiently profitable, in management's eyes. I have been commenting on this for years over on the Commen Tread comments. Harley would need to ask at least $17k for the Bronx. There are several Japanese sport nakeds that would offer Bronx performance and featurs for less. There are several Eurpean machines which would give you more (and a better reputation) for that money or similar. Although I have been sayingh this for years, Bronx hopefuls have told me I was wrong. Well, Lance Oliver over at ZLA asked a Harley rep point-blank. Turns out I am not incorrect.
I remember some people hating on RE back in 2016-17 when this street rod 750 was launched in India without ABS 😂. This was a refined premium bike compared to 500cc Royal Enfield bikes of that time. And then RE just hit back with the interceptor 650 in 2018 and that changed the game completely because now people had a 650cc twin cylinder retro bike at 2.50 lakhs ex showroom price i.e. 3lakhs onroad with all taxes . That was dirt cheap 😅for a 650cc twin cylinder bike. 650cc sport bike or cruiser bikes back then started at 6lakhs or 6.5lakhs in india . And the rest as they say is history 😅. They brought the house down in India, Europe ,Japan and other Asian countries and finally USA also. The interceptor 650 became the default choice for beginners as well as riders who are returning to riding. Even Bonneville was facing the heat hence Triumph decided to do a Trident 660 and then a Speed 400 with Bajaj in collaboration. And then in 2022 RE launched the J series 350cc bikes like Meteor, Classic 350 Reborn and the Hunter 350 (king size alternative to Honda Grom at similar price). Heck they also got 450cc liquid cooled bikes now to replace the 500cc platform to bridge the gap between 350 and 650cc bikes. They are ruling the sub 650cc market now around the world now for beginners atleast who want retro styled easy to maintain friendly bikes. Now Harley Davidson did make the X440 for India and emerging markets in collaboration with Hero motorcorp (Indian motorcycle giant) and it sells in decent numbers like 2 or 3000 units per month but RE Hunter 350 which is the entry level bike sells around 15 or 16k units per month but that's not even their highest selling bike 😂. The highest selling bike from RE is Classic 350 which sells a whopping 22k units or more per month 😅. It sells more than some 160cc sports commuter bikes in india combined 😂. Anyway here's a little secret RE is testing new 750cc interceptor also in india and a new 250cc entry level beginner bike is also in works to undercut the Hunter 350. If you ask me the 750cc interceptor is a real bad news for Harley Davidson because it will be also sold in USA in future for sure. And it will be a hit for sure. Bottomline is that HD is screwed up in future with no hopes.
Rode a Street 500 for my MSF course at the local Harley dealership. It was a pretty fun little bike. But, then again I was just basically riding circles in a parking lot.
I thought the 500 at the MSF course would've been a fun around town bike. They looked at me like I was crazy when I mentioned to someone at the dealership "if I was a foot shorter I'd probably like one." At 6"4 a bike that fits & comfortable is #1 on my list. Since I'm not a PowerRanger or Pirate I'll ride what I want.
What Harley needs to do is abandon air cooling entirely, upsize the revolution motors to get 180HP, and start putting them into the traditional big twin bikes. I’d buy a road glide with 180 HP.
Ironically I did my MSF on a street 500 and I thought it was a pretty decent bike. Made me start thinking about sporty cruisers. Yes the exhaust under the right foot was a problem
Didn't Spite buy this bike in his early motorcycling days? I believe he stated this was one of his purchases in his youth? The bike had a terrible rider triangle and your knees are above the fuel tank when riding. The local HD dealership had them on the floor , but all the sales reps ignored the product and shoved the customers toward dyna's and sportster's.
@ - See, not only a fan, but I pay attention with your video’s! You hardly ever miss the mark and your co - workers are entertaining as well!!! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
just a small word from the UK .. I have 2 bikes an 09 BUELL ULYSSES and a 2018 STREET ROD .. for me the smaller cc of the street rod works fine in the UK and you are so right with the 'hooligan' tag .. but I rode that to FARO [Portugal ] in 2022 [2500 mile round trip] and it was excellent .. yes the ergonomics are all wrong but its so much fun to ride .. ! BTW. i'm 5ft 10in and 70 years old ... [still like a touch of hooliganism now and again tho ].. ..p.s. i only saw 3 in europe and i've only noticed 2 others in the UK.
Proud owner of a Street triple 765rs as my naked sport bike and a 07 nightster 1200 as my cruiser/tourer and had this bike existed I may have been adding another Harley to the stable instead as my naked sport choice
Harley riders don’t want bikes like this and no one else wants a Harley. Their best bet is probably to stick to what they’ve always done and scale it all way back. That is probably death for most of their current dealerships though.
The low tank height and poor ergonomics have a rider sitting high enough for their knees to rest above the gas tank. Watching spite ride this bike brings back memories of a circus bear riding a tricycle.
Came to check the comments for trolls raving about tariffs, but was strangely disappointed. That crowd probably didn't make it far enough into the video.
This is the reason I can’t justify letting my 94 Honda gen 3 Magna go. It too weighs in at 540 pounds but it is so easy to handle slow speed and it has around 80 hp and it canyon carves well and gets great gas Milage. With a Mustang seat I can ride all day as well. She has a little over 53,000 miles. Just getting broke in. No leaks as well.
16:14 exactly and theoretically the consumer would then price match to other options that are locally produced that may now be more competitively priced
@@ChrisVanMiddelkoop Sure, I'd be all for eliminating the EPA and Euro regs and CARB. We should get right on that. They all over-lived their purposes 50 years ago and now they simply launder money. But until then, you need to find a 2nd Gen Yamaha Vmax. Near 200 hp. V4. Enough torque to light up the tire at street speed just rolling on. It actually had brakes that were up to the task to stop it, also shaft drive, and handled decent.
Yeah I was the first to ride one, when they came out at our local dealer. They asked me what I thought of it. I told them that it was very odd to ride. The performance wasn't bad and I actually thought it would sell good. But it still wasn't as good as a sportster. It didn't sell well at all.
I went with a Triumph Trident 660 because it was the closest looking thing to a sport bike positioning with a classic look that was appropriate for a beginner. Harley could’ve made a sale off the Bronx from me, but they like to kill their dreams of entry level motorcycles. If you can’t afford to start on a big bike because of your skills or because of your wallet, HD doesn’t want you.
He said" Harley generally makes well built bikes" then proceeds to say how mediocre master cylinder ,seat ,exhaust footpeg issue, design of the bike....hmmm well which is it? When someone says "well build" I am thinking all components working together and mechanically sound.
Hold up big guy! Your video is solid but it's missing / leaving out a big piece of the puzzle. Where were they going to make the Bronx? Look what was happening in Harley news around this time: They closed down the Kansas City plant around 2018/2019. That's where the V-Rod and Street were being built. The V-Rod was immediately discontinued and the Street shortly thereafter. When Harley was teasing us with Bronx images, if I had to guess, I'd say they still hadn't necessarily bounced back productivity enough from being short a plant to actually bring one more offering to the table like that, knowing the other stuff coming down the pipeline. Keep in mind in their minds they had the Pan Am coming, and the LiveWire was supposed to be much more successful. Did weak liquid cooled model sales contribute to the Bronx decision? Probably! Did they have the capacity to take on new model production with two new models expecting to move units, and one less plant to make bikes in? Probably not. I think production capacities were a concern as much as anything else was. - Former Harley-Davidson (Canada) employee
Kudos on the video ! I had hoped that Cycle World magazine staff had cooperated in helping Harley get the Kinks worked out in development phase. Looks like Harley management was wise in stopping this from becoming a disaster with customers muttering under their breath ! I'd only say your video slightly confused me about the handling issue. How do you consider Handling as Excellent Only On Smooth Roads ? I can say Excellent Handling only if it handles well on All The Roads regular riders travel upon ....... Nick , NavyBlueSmoke , LST-1195
I actually liked this motorcycle. It was comfortable for me being only 5'6" and I sounds nice and deep and throaty. 70 hp, decent ground clearance, decent price. It seems like not that bad of a motorcycle and you touched on that and it got a bad rap because of all the anti hype built in India negativity. You said yours was built in the US. I didn't know that. That should have shut people up but all they did was see stuff online and immediate regurgitate it like puppets and dismiss never to re-evaluate their decision again and I'm still amazed how society is like that. Once decision is made they're done with it no matter what new info comes. If I see one for 2k like some people said I'm going to jump on it. Also, when people say it's ugly I mean come on. Looks the same as a low rider all blacked out west coast club style with a jacked up rear end. Looks the same. People just repeat what they year without taking a deeper look. I hate people.....
Well I enjoyed riding a Street Rod ..just a fun bar hopper.. and as far as the Bronx goes I've seen a stripped down Pan America that could actually be a contender for a street fighter
I live in Indonesia. There is a 50% tax on anything over 250cc and a 100% tax on anything over 500cc. Only rich people can afford harleys. They are a totally impractical status symbol, and a lot of people idolise them. It's really weird.
Every single person who brings up the Bronx refuses to admit the FTR is already in the market and not in that much demand, then let's add Harley quality or the lack there of...
Tariff was used to promote in house manufacturers like royal Enfield, Hero Honda etc in India . Just like how USA supported Harley more over other motorcycles by increasing the regulations and tax.
I was thinking about this bike recently. Harley wasn't too far off the mark with the street rod. Inverted forks, piggyback shocks. Liquid cooled vtwin. It had a lot of what was needed. It was even made in America and under 9k. The ergonomics and the weight were a miss but I'd love to see Harley take another swing at it. I think the idea they had of racing on Sunday and selling on Monday was pretty cool too. My understanding is that the engine was really similar to Harley's new xg750r flat track racer. Unfortunately the ftr introduction and dominance kind of killed it's thunder. I'm hoping with the new flat track rules change. That we see another revmax powered 750 along those lines. I think with the industry leaning hard into parallel twins. A vtwin 750 and 500 would really stand out.
As much as I didn't like this bike when it came out I dislike the RevMax engine even more. I would have been much happier if they just added water cooling to the Evo Sportster while changing the look of the engine as little as possible.
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PACKTALK PRO costs $459.00 ??? Absolutely not worth even half that price -
HD’s biggest mistake was shafting Buell.
Seriously, HD keeps the old-school cruiser style bikes, buell makes sports bikes, adv, electric, and nakeds. It is a great way to structure the company
But if they had shaft drive if would be fantastic
@@markstill515 Belt is ok. It is better than Chain and Lighter than a Shaft Drive plus no rear end lift when accelerating.
With chains and belt drive. You can adjust the gear ratio for weight and performance. Shaft your stuck with what it cane with
@@josephfoster5593That would make sense. That's against the rules at Harley Davidson corporate headquarters.
1 - HD killed itself by:
Not making a naked muscle bike (Bronx)
2 - Overpricing the livewire to the point that it was unsellable even though people wanted it badly.
3- killing the Vrod line-up
4) overpricing the lowriders s and st so that the young people who want it can't buy it.
yeah I would love to own a LRS
The V-Rod was up for a redesign. The New Sportster is sort of the New V-Rod.
@@exexpat11 Rather have a V-Rod then the new sportster
@zilari3662 Yep! However the Sportster S is more V-Rod than Evo Sportster.
It's not just those two that are overpriced.
Watching HD slowly destroy themselves because they refuse to change with the times is a great parallel for the entire country honestly.
I hate that you're right.
Right in the feels. Damn.
Oh just STFU homie...effing leftist. Don't be sore that your time has come to an end loser.
Honestly, they tried to get in bed with Gen A and that backfired so hard they backpedaled themselves into a free fall of apologies.
They seem to have lost touch with their identity because their identity was cool back in my dad’s generation (boomers). I’m Gen X, I prefer BMWs. Millennials usually love Triumphs (you get that British-hooligan vibe) and sportier rides (not all, but several I’ve talked bikes with). Gen Z and A? Umm. I don’t know. I don’t really associate with them and I don’t really know that they want?
Neither does Harley. They know they’re big on gender identity, and that seems to be about it… so they ran with it and ended up with the only fan base they actually got setting fire to their bikes in protest (wish I couldn’t say literally… but literally).
Every time they do make a change, what do the HD riders say?
Look at all the great Asian bikes that FAILED due to being ahead of their time?
There ARE people that can't get it through their heads that they no longer make 55-57 Chevys.
it's disgusting that a European billionaire is in charge of HD.
As opposed to a succession of 'European billionaires' running the country???
Cheese with that whine, sir?
The South African billionaire rules America, what's so surprising?
R&D is so expensive... it's insane to waste that money by not at least giving the consumer a chance to buy the Bronx
That makes me think there was something more deeply wrong with it, but still, it's not like H-D hasn't released a flawed bike in the past...
Because they really didn't make a working model.
This is exactly how I feel about KTM with their 490/501 platform of parallel twin bikes. They had even announced a release date, then canceled the entire project shortly before it was supposed to ship to dealers. I personally think that decision is a big part of why they are struggling now, and I wish they had learned from Harley's example instead of emulating it.
What real R&D needed to be done? If only there were a company, they could consult that knew how to make light weight, sporty, and great handling motorcycles with HD engines. Oh yeah, Buell.
Had Harley brought out a genuine Ducati Monster competitor , I might very well have bought one. The Monster is the bike that saved Ducati. I'm actually hoping to pick one up next month.
The Bronx that never was, the cancellation of the V-Rod, the end of LiveWire...these are all just echoes of their *actual* biggest mistake. Eric Buell designed the FXR, the best handling H-D to that point, then put them on the sportbike map with his ground-breaking Buell motorcycles. Then H-D announced to the world that they were myopic and mentally challenged when they cancelled Buell. Not only did they lose a brilliant engineer, they shut the door on anybody who likes to take corners faster than walking speed. Every mistake they've made since then is just more laughing stock for the motorcycling world.
Culminating in their biggest mistake small Chinese parallel twins as entry level bikes.
Reminds me of the AMF era, Italian made 2 stroke bikes sold by Harley. At least those scratched an itch of buyers in the 70s.
The fact is, the Buells just didn't sell. People don't go to a Harley dealer to buy a crotch rocket. They just don't. And Erick Buell has never claimed to have designed the FXR. He was brought in to make adjustments to fix the handling. He was never interested in cruiser-type motorcycles.
@mrpoizun Buell now sells the Super Cruiser, genius. And now people don't go to a Harley dealership to buy *ANYTHING* except tshirts. That's why H-D, the company, is eating sh!t now. Buell was a way into the future, but chuckleheads would rather watch H-D die than admit their bikes are outdated, obese, and absurdly overpriced.
In the late 1990s and early 2000s, I owned two FXRs (1987 FXRS-SP and 1990 FXRT) and two Buells (1997 "razorback" M2 and 2002 XB9R).
Both my Buells were let down by poor build quality and the M2 also needed a zillion recalls for safety modifications.
The FXRs made good touring bikes but by then both Dynas and post 1994 Sportsters were better handling.
Swapping the XB9R and the FXRT for an R1150RT "pipe & slippers" BMW gave me the comfort of the FXRT with more performance than either of the Buells.
The current state of Harley is what happens when you hire a CEO who has no real love for yout brand and at the same time is completely out of touch with the brand's customer base.
All Harley’s have to look the same, huge Goldwing style cowls and big bags that weight as much as a small car. Let’s be honest no one outside the Harley bubble can tell the between a Streetglide, a Road Glide, a Road King etc
Spoken like someone who doesn't know Harley whatsoever....
@bruiser I mean that’s literally what I wrote.
He's right lmao@@bruisersdilemma354
@@bruisersdilemma354 I had several 100% HD guys and gals NOT know that my '23 fatbob IS a Harley, so there's that.
@@SmittyAZyea, I'd imagine you could find a lot of people who ride baggers that don't know a lot about the Softtail line and vice versa. Same as I know people who love Chevy pickups but couldn't tell you anything about Chevy cars, save the Vette.
Harley’s biggest mistake (at least in the past 30 years) was the whole LiveWire program. If you’ve seen five people on a Street 750 that’s five more people than I’ve seen on any LiveWire.
I've seen more people on a Live wire than a Street 750. It was 1. I've seen on guy on a Live wire, he was at the HD dealership getting an update, but I've seen zero people on Street 750 or 500.
The only time I've seen a LiveWire was when I was in Milwaukee for the 120th. They had a few on display outside of the museum. I've never seen one out in the wild.
The Bronx is the bike everybody wants but H-D refuses to make it.
everybody wants it because they imagine it 5k cheaper than it would be
No one will buy it if they make it.....
@@ragimundvonwallat8961Yeah, looking at the price of Sportster, I don't believe it would end up below 15K.
Post the specs here; try not to laugh in 2024.
@SmittyAZ good luck because you won't get them from me.
It was not only India. Harley have a huge cult here in Brazil. We that wanted to have our first HD and were orphans of the 883 were thrilled. But HD Brazil never imported or produced here (HD has a factory here). So the entry-level cruiser niche stayed open until Royal Enfield saw that niche, grabed and run with it.
Harley's biggest mistake was dumping Buell and his brand. Buell Motorcycle was a growing brand in the midst of a shrinking market in the late 00's and were making great bikes. Harley had all of the sporty bike expertise already and delivered to them on a silver platter in the form of a separate brand that didn't interrupt Harley's heritage-oriented image.
They could easily have continued to facilitate Buell to launch a 2-front attack on the heritage and sport/adventure market simultaneously. Maybe company as a whole would be in a better place today.
Totally agree. The disrespect i experienced at Harley dealerships drove me solidly of the HD brand.
Buell is like american muscle cars in the form of motorcycles. I like some of their bikes but i hate almost every headlights from the brand.. like ew... Looks beefy then the headlights/face of the bike is so... Ugly. Basically im saying it looks perfect as a track bike.
As A former owner of 11 Buell motorcycles I agree 💯 %.
Buell allowed HD to expand into other genres of the bike market without altering their core V Twin production.
2 weeks after winning the Moto America Sportbike series Championship they closed the doors on Buell.
I was very angry for a very long time.
Here we are almost 25 years later and here we go again.
They have the Rev Max bikes and the one missing is the Bronx.
I am a very satisfied owner of a 2024 Pan America Special.
Its all and much more the bike that the Buell Ulysses was.
I owned and rode the hell out two Ulysses.
If HD is to survive they have got to come to the realization that their future relies on making mid sized bikes that appeal to the generations that will keep them in business.
The Shovelhead and Evo customers are dying off.
Time to build affordable and performing mid sized bikes.
That fat baggers still have their customers but for how long ?
I had a buell x1 lightning in the uk , unreliable heap of poorly made junk , had a Yamaha mt 01 , fast reliable great. Now have a road king special which is superb.
Buell was a joke. The Blast was all world terrible. Their adventure bike was outclassed by the V strom that was half the price.
Hate to say this but with the way things are currently going there is a chance that in the future we will live in a world without Harley Davidson which would be a real shame.
I'm ok way that
Nothing of value will be lost.
Soon Harley will be viewed the same way Norton is viewed.
If Honda starts making the VTX 1800 and Yamaha the Royal Star Venture again to compensate it will be a net win.
If only Harley would lower the price i bet they would sell much more
You just described everything that I loved and hated about my Street Rod. Including the hip cramp! And yet, I STILL miss that little beast!
Me too. Riding this bike again makes me sad I'm selling it
@@spitescorner keep it.
The 1st year VROD was leg and hip cramp in a few miles, I never rode one again.
Bronx was supposed to be the new Sportster. Think about it, a Sportster that was actually sport. HD executives are definitely smoking something.
Yeah,Smoking pole Harley CEO is globohomo he's not even American.
I think we can all agree the Bronx would have been a much better bike than the cartoonish Sportser S.
I would have bought a Bronx.
Absolutely. The decision to cancel the Bronx but release the shitster s is just ass stupid. I waited for that “new” engine to come in a bike I actually wanted to spend my hard freaking earned money on, and I’m still waiting! Instead I got a comic book motorcycle and the nightmare bike, which isn’t bad, but I don’t want the smallest engine you make as my only bike, Harley.
@@robbyclark6915❤
That sportser S is horrible to sit on, at least for me at 6'2. I'm bent double if I sit on it. I have no idea why anyone would buy one or what it would be used for. It is looked like it was designed by a 5 year old.
I absolutely 100% would have bought the Bronx. It was there. The RevMax engine is great. It looked AMAZING.
To this day, I'm still absolutely poleaxed that they didn't do it.
Same here. Especially if they made the 1250 version which was supposed to make like 150HP
Hydraulic lifters and a belt drive. That fucking thing would’ve basically been maintenance free. All you need is oil changes and brake pads.
It was the first time in my 30 year riding career that I was in the market for a new bike and thinking about a Harley Davidson.
The Bronx is an amazing concept imo. If it was offered with the 1250 motor, I would heavily consider it for my next bike...and by 1250, I mean the full powered version...not cut back/watered down.
There were rumblings of a 150HP 1250 variant. That would have been amazing. I think the Pan Am motor could make that kind of power now with a few tweaks
It's spelled FTR.
Dang he just increased the price of these on the used market. Warren Buffet once said (in essence) Most MBAs are dumb, outside of the programming they get in business school they have to clues.
I am old enough to remember this is not the first time HD has been in trouble…
Yeah, the last time was when they allowed a “non motorcycle” company into the fold (AMF). Now they have some euro-trash sneaker executive in charge. No good will come of that.
The best days of motorcycles are behind us bros.
What ????? Let me guess... You had someone at the post office post your comment because you use Morse Code .... Do you despise amber colored turn signals and believe kick start is life ? Did you turn your back on any technology that came after Hollister ?
If that's true, that just means the best bikes are the cheapest 😈
Probably. I live in a town (Amsterdam) where they don’t allow to drive your diesel car. So called Climate Zones. In a few years they gonna forbid me to take out my 1995 BMW boxer because it’s not electric.
Ahhh yes I forgot about the famously oppressed people of Amsterdam who don't have any freedom of financial means to move ......
@@florislok That's deep as hell man.
H-D needs a new CEO (someone like Willie G.).
Willie G. was a stylist and PR guy, not a CEO.
@@browngreen933 I know, but H-D needs a guy like him at the helm.
Willie G is one of the things that held Harley back. While he was king of the cruisers, he couldn't get past them. The VRod was hamstrung from day one, because they put that great engine in a cruiser frame. No one wanted it.
@@blutobutt9169
The v-Rod wasn’t a cruiser per se. It was designed to emulate the bikes you’d find on the drag strip.
Imagine that V-Rod engine punched out to a 1500. Hide the water cooling like HD hide the water and oil cooling.
That bike would really go!!!!
It would never happen...
Why? Harley make huge profits selling the nonsense aftermarket stuff! Stage 1,2,3...on a 800lb cruiser?...😅
$1000 zorst systems?
Performance?
It's about noise only!
I worked for HD and the buyers were laughed at, ringing bells, financing clothing, never knowing the % rate of the loan.
They were truly pathetic.
Why not print up T-Shirts with a list of fictional modifications for the guys with more money than sense. They do not know what they bought/have, but will memorize it to speak loudly to anyone that will listen.
If they *really* wanted performance and could REALLY handle it, they'd ride Ducati, MV Augusta et al.
Harley is such a scam now and fools rush in to feed it.
Great breakdown, Spite!
I think the FTR 1200 killed the Bronx
Add the fact that Indian really doesn't sell that many FTR ...
The ftr also doesn't have a direct competitor to continue to drive its innovation and sales.
Indian should have made a lighter 750 version instead of the porky 1200.
XR1200 with the new 1250 should've been created to compete with the FTR1200, preferably with a bigger tank than 4 gallons lol.
Thank you! I was looking at this bike online at my local dealership and it was an incredible deal. Now I see why. Also thank you explaining what a Tariff is. Most people didn't understand when this happened a few years ago and the price of steel went up.
Harley has a history of running to big government to penalize competition (Ronald Regan era), rather than innovating. Fortnine did a breakdown on that history. Harley also squashed Alta Motors. For being a "more roads to Harley-Davidson" company, they sure have done their best to bulldoze the roads to other American startups, other competition in the USA, while pricing this 2 wheeled machine out of reach for young people. With all the "rebellion and gangs and violence" portrayals on American TV over the decades, solidifying this imagery in the minds of the masses, it's safe to say no one has done as much harm to the advancement of motorcycles in America as Harley Davidson. We're still one of the least motorcycling nations on the planet.
I had the 1st generation Street 750, the predecessor of this Street Rod model. Did more than 40k Miles on that bike, it was brilliant. Unfortunately the biggest issue was that the 1st few gens came without ABS 😂
Cheers for getting the most of the bike. Hopefully you are on something more modern now
No one needs ABS on a motorcycle. Wants, maybe…
Honestly I think their biggest mistake was the Livewire.
💯 Absolutely.
Livewire was a massive waste of millions.
One by one the worlds major auto manufacturers are backing off of the EVs.
I will never own an EV or EM.
Instead of trying to reinvent the engine the effort should be in reinventing the fuel that ICEs use to be clean.
It can be done.
I love my Street Rod. I turned it into a sort of sport/Cafe cruiser with saddle bags and crash bars. It can hang with any Harley or liter bike. I bought it specifically for its rarity. I have a 2020 in Performance Orange. They made a Street Rod in Performance Orange one year.
My 2009 XR1200 handles very well in the twisty's and it has a good turn of speed, not as good as my old Laverda 1200 had, but I am now forty years older now than when I owned the Laverda.
Having worked in Harley dealerships when this bike came out... They were notoriously problematic! I saw dozens of them come in with catastrophic failure ranging from frames cracking to the engine fully seizing due to bearing failure. In my experience, it was wildly underwhelming on sales numbers. They were designed to be an entry level bike in an effort to appeal to the younger riders to bring city riders to the brand.
The nightster is 481ish lbs wet, harley can build a "light" bike, and the bronx could have been great... but inflating shareholder value was more important
481lbs is still heavy weight because most 600cc and some 1000cc sport bikes weigh less than that.. I dunno the specs but how much HP & torque is the nightster working with?
@novacounciloutsdrs4770 yeah hence the "light"... certainly doesn't compare to an actual sportbike or naked, but its at least a workable weight for what its supposed to be. It puts out around 90 hp and 75ish ft lbs of torque, nothing crazy
My first Harley was a Street 750 coming from sport bikes because at 6'2 I couldn't fit on a Street Rod. I pretty much hated it and ended up trading it in for a Dyna in less than a year.
I've seen two in Northern Ireland, one of which was at a bike show. The Harley dealership wouldn't even keep one
I love your take on Harley issues. Your tariff statement is incorrect. Honda made 8 different motorcycles in the US until 2009, and yamaha, kawasaki till 2006. Tariffs make companies make there products in America. NAFTA has destroyed manufacturing in the US.
That assumes a company decides to move their production here. Think of how long that would take, to get a factory up and running. In the meantime consumers pay more. That's exactly what happened with HD. They opened a factory in India to skirt the tarriffs entirely but it took years and in the meantime their sales tanked and the people who did buy paid more.
Where products?
The Bronx was to be my first harley.... I got a triumph since they canceled the bronx. Good thing I did with all the catastrophic engine failure on the new sportsters rofl
It didn't help that they built the XR1200 right before the street launched and it didn't live up to the American made chad that the XR is
Thanks for the chad.
The street and street rods are fun little bikes but are super easy to outgrow. I love my 500 for the back roads but always leaves me wanting more
Great video. Its information like this that makes me really appreciate my VSTROM 650! More power, more torque, lighter, great seating position, and a whole bunch cheaper!! 😁
The challenge for the Street Rod was it didn't have things that a Harley Davison enthusiast would want, including being made in the US and the traditional styling. Conversely people looking for an easy to own and ride bike without an image association didn't want something with the HD name on it.
Well, they did produce these in the United States for a few years. Mine was made in Kansas City before that plant shut down. The motor and drivetrain are extremely easy to maintain with the belt drive and hydraulic lifters. The only thing is the harley image.
I remember reading that that 750 had an irrevocably terrible riding position.
It's a weird bike for sure. Mine's a 2017 Olive Gold. I've never run across one where I live. Harley guys seem to like them, and chicks dig 'em for sure. If you're over 5'8" forget it. You will NEVER fit. You need to change the seat, pegs and bars right away IMHO. The stock pegs are super narrow, and the cat is right under your right boot 🔥The stock bars are super wide and flat, with stupid bar-end (nod to Harley they actually work great) mirrors. The stock seat is perfect for roasting your chestnut(s) on an open fire, in heavy traffic. I bought it as a entry-level bike. $8600. A 2017 Honda 450 dirt bike was starting at $11,000 for instance. It gets really crappy milage and the rear brake is a nightmare. Overall I'm really happy with it. If you're a new rider, then the fueling/drivetrain/clutch will be snatchy until you get used to it. I'd give it 7 out of 10.
I really enjoyed riding the 750 Street Rod…it was very nimble with a peppy easy shifting motor.
No, the livewire was the biggest mistake
The crazy thing is that this and the other street range were dropped way too early. In 2-3 years of updates this would have been a good thing. 😢
Custom builders are turning the PanAmerican into something like the Bronx. They look great. I think the reason HD built the PanAmerica rather than the Bronx was that the Bronx may have been the Edsel of the motorcycle world: the bike everyone said they wanted but that no one bought.
Every other manufacturer makes that exact same ass-in-the-air, 3 feet-of-air-between-the-tire-and-the-fender model that looks stupid as fuq. H-D would be stupid to add another to the pile.
@@mrpoizun The Bronx was a muscle bike not a sport bike. It wasn't going up against the Panigale.
I've seen quite a few when they were out. Not anymore. I always chased them down because I thought someone was riding an old Yamaha Radian. I was always surprise when it was one of those 500-750 HD's.
The Street Rod is not the reason. Price is the reason. Harley could not charge enough for it to maker it sufficiently profitable, in management's eyes. I have been commenting on this for years over on the Commen Tread comments. Harley would need to ask at least $17k for the Bronx. There are several Japanese sport nakeds that would offer Bronx performance and featurs for less. There are several Eurpean machines which would give you more (and a better reputation) for that money or similar. Although I have been sayingh this for years, Bronx hopefuls have told me I was wrong. Well, Lance Oliver over at ZLA asked a Harley rep point-blank. Turns out I am not incorrect.
Plus, who needs another stupid-looking bike like that?
I remember some people hating on RE back in 2016-17 when this street rod 750 was launched in India without ABS 😂. This was a refined premium bike compared to 500cc Royal Enfield bikes of that time. And then RE just hit back with the interceptor 650 in 2018 and that changed the game completely because now people had a 650cc twin cylinder retro bike at 2.50 lakhs ex showroom price i.e. 3lakhs onroad with all taxes . That was dirt cheap 😅for a 650cc twin cylinder bike. 650cc sport bike or cruiser bikes back then started at 6lakhs or 6.5lakhs in india . And the rest as they say is history 😅. They brought the house down in India, Europe ,Japan and other Asian countries and finally USA also. The interceptor 650 became the default choice for beginners as well as riders who are returning to riding. Even Bonneville was facing the heat hence Triumph decided to do a Trident 660 and then a Speed 400 with Bajaj in collaboration.
And then in 2022 RE launched the J series 350cc bikes like Meteor, Classic 350 Reborn and the Hunter 350 (king size alternative to Honda Grom at similar price). Heck they also got 450cc liquid cooled bikes now to replace the 500cc platform to bridge the gap between 350 and 650cc bikes. They are ruling the sub 650cc market now around the world now for beginners atleast who want retro styled easy to maintain friendly bikes.
Now Harley Davidson did make the X440 for India and emerging markets in collaboration with Hero motorcorp (Indian motorcycle giant) and it sells in decent numbers like 2 or 3000 units per month but RE Hunter 350 which is the entry level bike sells around 15 or 16k units per month but that's not even their highest selling bike 😂. The highest selling bike from RE is Classic 350 which sells a whopping 22k units or more per month 😅. It sells more than some 160cc sports commuter bikes in india combined 😂.
Anyway here's a little secret RE is testing new 750cc interceptor also in india and a new 250cc entry level beginner bike is also in works to undercut the Hunter 350. If you ask me the 750cc interceptor is a real bad news for Harley Davidson because it will be also sold in USA in future for sure. And it will be a hit for sure.
Bottomline is that HD is screwed up in future with no hopes.
It looks like a Chinese metric bike copy of a Harley-Davidson. H-D dealers thought so too. 😢
Rode a Street 500 for my MSF course at the local Harley dealership. It was a pretty fun little bike. But, then again I was just basically riding circles in a parking lot.
Same here. I had fun with it, and I really enjoyed both my 750s
I thought the 500 at the MSF course would've been a fun around town bike. They looked at me like I was crazy when I mentioned to someone at the dealership "if I was a foot shorter I'd probably like one." At 6"4 a bike that fits & comfortable is #1 on my list. Since I'm not a PowerRanger or Pirate I'll ride what I want.
The decision to kill the sportster was a big mistake, I am not personally interested in any HD bike
I’ve never seen one other than a dealer
& lol at the tariff explanation you’re right about it too
What Harley needs to do is abandon air cooling entirely, upsize the revolution motors to get 180HP, and start putting them into the traditional big twin bikes. I’d buy a road glide with 180 HP.
I know basically everyone hated the Street but I had a Street 750 and I liked it. I thought it was a good intro bike.
Ironically I did my MSF on a street 500 and I thought it was a pretty decent bike. Made me start thinking about sporty cruisers. Yes the exhaust under the right foot was a problem
Belt drive is easiest to maintain?
Didn't Spite buy this bike in his early motorcycling days? I believe he stated this was one of his purchases in his youth? The bike had a terrible rider triangle and your knees are above the fuel tank when riding. The local HD dealership had them on the floor , but all the sales reps ignored the product and shoved the customers toward dyna's and sportster's.
This was my bike.
@ - See, not only a fan, but I pay attention with your video’s! You hardly ever miss the mark and your co - workers are entertaining as well!!! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Sportsters were redheaded step children in my neck of the woods. I know I owned one great bikes except for the suspension or lack there of.
Yes, but also remember despite being a Harley simp, he doesn't buy them ... Look at his garage.... KTM, Honda, Yamaha....
@ - I noticed that as well from past videos !!! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
I ride a street rod 750 and just added forward controls (6 ft tall) to fix sitting position.. for me its the perfect city ripper with HD quality
just a small word from the UK .. I have 2 bikes an 09 BUELL ULYSSES and a 2018 STREET ROD .. for me the smaller cc of the street rod works fine in the UK and you are so right with the 'hooligan' tag .. but I rode that to FARO [Portugal ] in 2022 [2500 mile round trip] and it was excellent .. yes the ergonomics are all wrong but its so much fun to ride .. ! BTW. i'm 5ft 10in and 70 years old ... [still like a touch of hooliganism now and again tho ].. ..p.s. i only saw 3 in europe and i've only noticed 2 others in the UK.
Proud owner of a Street triple 765rs as my naked sport bike and a 07 nightster 1200 as my cruiser/tourer and had this bike existed I may have been adding another Harley to the stable instead as my naked sport choice
HD's biggest mistake was turning their back on the EVO, the engine that saved the Company. FHD F Jochen FCVO FVVT
Harley riders don’t want bikes like this and no one else wants a Harley. Their best bet is probably to stick to what they’ve always done and scale it all way back. That is probably death for most of their current dealerships though.
The smartest thing Harley could do is keep doing what has always worked for them. The big mistake they always make is trying to do anything else.
The low tank height and poor ergonomics have a rider sitting high enough for their knees to rest above the gas tank. Watching spite ride this bike brings back memories of a circus bear riding a tricycle.
Came to check the comments for trolls raving about tariffs, but was strangely disappointed. That crowd probably didn't make it far enough into the video.
Wanted the Bronx , bought a Ftr . Now the Ftr is discontinued just as it’s starting to gain traction
This is the reason I can’t justify letting my 94 Honda gen 3 Magna go. It too weighs in at 540 pounds but it is so easy to handle slow speed and it has around 80 hp and it canyon carves well and gets great gas Milage. With a Mustang seat I can ride all day as well. She has a little over 53,000 miles. Just getting broke in. No leaks as well.
16:14 exactly and theoretically the consumer would then price match to other options that are locally produced that may now be more competitively priced
Harley needs a v4… i want a true muscle cruiser. 200hp bagger would be sick. Liquid cooled please
@@ChrisVanMiddelkoop So you bought how many V-Rods?
@@ChrisVanMiddelkoop Sure, I'd be all for eliminating the EPA and Euro regs and CARB. We should get right on that. They all over-lived their purposes 50 years ago and now they simply launder money.
But until then, you need to find a 2nd Gen Yamaha Vmax. Near 200 hp. V4. Enough torque to light up the tire at street speed just rolling on. It actually had brakes that were up to the task to stop it, also shaft drive, and handled decent.
I have a street rod and agree with all your comments. It's a good bike that could have been great.
Yeah I was the first to ride one, when they came out at our local dealer. They asked me what I thought of it. I told them that it was very odd to ride. The performance wasn't bad and I actually thought it would sell good. But it still wasn't as good as a sportster. It didn't sell well at all.
Sad story but a great video. 👍
Nice and subtle... I like it.
I was sooo excited about the Bronx and then it didn't happen so Triumph got my money instead.
I had an SR750 which i promptly sold for a '22 FTR Carbon. Best decision ever
Bronx would have got bodied in that category
Especially if they wanted $20k + for it.
They would have had to sell it at a competitive price, which they wouldn't have done.
Sad...
i’ve been happy with my lil ‘rod for about 5 years, i’d love to get a 101 or a FTR, but i can’t bring my self to trade the XG750A
I went with a Triumph Trident 660 because it was the closest looking thing to a sport bike positioning with a classic look that was appropriate for a beginner. Harley could’ve made a sale off the Bronx from me, but they like to kill their dreams of entry level motorcycles. If you can’t afford to start on a big bike because of your skills or because of your wallet, HD doesn’t want you.
He said" Harley generally makes well built bikes" then proceeds to say how mediocre master cylinder ,seat ,exhaust footpeg issue, design of the bike....hmmm well which is it? When someone says "well build" I am thinking all components working together and mechanically sound.
Hold up big guy! Your video is solid but it's missing / leaving out a big piece of the puzzle. Where were they going to make the Bronx? Look what was happening in Harley news around this time: They closed down the Kansas City plant around 2018/2019. That's where the V-Rod and Street were being built. The V-Rod was immediately discontinued and the Street shortly thereafter. When Harley was teasing us with Bronx images, if I had to guess, I'd say they still hadn't necessarily bounced back productivity enough from being short a plant to actually bring one more offering to the table like that, knowing the other stuff coming down the pipeline. Keep in mind in their minds they had the Pan Am coming, and the LiveWire was supposed to be much more successful.
Did weak liquid cooled model sales contribute to the Bronx decision? Probably!
Did they have the capacity to take on new model production with two new models expecting to move units, and one less plant to make bikes in? Probably not.
I think production capacities were a concern as much as anything else was.
- Former Harley-Davidson (Canada) employee
Kudos on the video ! I had hoped that Cycle World magazine staff had cooperated in helping Harley get the Kinks worked out in development phase. Looks like Harley management was wise in stopping this from becoming a disaster with customers muttering under their breath ! I'd only say your video slightly confused me about the handling issue. How do you consider Handling as Excellent Only On Smooth Roads ? I can say Excellent Handling only if it handles well on All The Roads regular riders travel upon ....... Nick , NavyBlueSmoke , LST-1195
I hate that exhaust. I hated the street 500s from the training class.
I actually liked this motorcycle. It was comfortable for me being only 5'6" and I sounds nice and deep and throaty. 70 hp, decent ground clearance, decent price. It seems like not that bad of a motorcycle and you touched on that and it got a bad rap because of all the anti hype built in India negativity. You said yours was built in the US. I didn't know that. That should have shut people up but all they did was see stuff online and immediate regurgitate it like puppets and dismiss never to re-evaluate their decision again and I'm still amazed how society is like that. Once decision is made they're done with it no matter what new info comes. If I see one for 2k like some people said I'm going to jump on it. Also, when people say it's ugly I mean come on. Looks the same as a low rider all blacked out west coast club style with a jacked up rear end. Looks the same. People just repeat what they year without taking a deeper look. I hate people.....
I loved my Street Rod, a great little bike
Well I enjoyed riding a Street Rod ..just a fun bar hopper.. and as far as the Bronx goes I've seen a stripped down Pan America that could actually be a contender for a street fighter
I agree they need a new and better street rod.
I al and liked the idea of a street 750. They look good, seem to drive well, but is it better than a Japanese alternative?
I live in Indonesia. There is a 50% tax on anything over 250cc and a 100% tax on anything over 500cc. Only rich people can afford harleys. They are a totally impractical status symbol, and a lot of people idolise them. It's really weird.
Accurate rant about Harley's mistakes and also tariffs.
Jesus we still talking about the Bronx?
The hurt is real.
Every single person who brings up the Bronx refuses to admit the FTR is already in the market and not in that much demand, then let's add Harley quality or the lack there of...
Tariff was used to promote in house manufacturers like royal Enfield, Hero Honda etc in India . Just like how USA supported Harley more over other motorcycles by increasing the regulations and tax.
I was thinking about this bike recently. Harley wasn't too far off the mark with the street rod. Inverted forks, piggyback shocks. Liquid cooled vtwin. It had a lot of what was needed. It was even made in America and under 9k. The ergonomics and the weight were a miss but I'd love to see Harley take another swing at it.
I think the idea they had of racing on Sunday and selling on Monday was pretty cool too. My understanding is that the engine was really similar to Harley's new xg750r flat track racer. Unfortunately the ftr introduction and dominance kind of killed it's thunder. I'm hoping with the new flat track rules change. That we see another revmax powered 750 along those lines. I think with the industry leaning hard into parallel twins. A vtwin 750 and 500 would really stand out.
As much as I didn't like this bike when it came out I dislike the RevMax engine even more. I would have been much happier if they just added water cooling to the Evo Sportster while changing the look of the engine as little as possible.
The Evos ran cool as can be. No need for water cooling.
Mr. Spite definitely has some valid points here
... That Bronx would have looked real good next to my MT-10. 😢
I actually have better hydraulic brakes on my gravel bike than I do on my Sporty48; or rather the feedback is more consistent.
When Harley builds a good regular (not cruiser) motorcycle they say nope and mess it up somehow then cry it won't sell. When will they ever learn.
These bikes are easily found on Marketplace. I was interested but decided I didnt want to rest my boot on the exhaust
I retired in the Philippines and would love to have the 750 street or even the 500 street over here.
Bear 650/himi 450 review when ?