If you have the resources you should be able to insert the same processor on both channels and have one set to 1:1 or 100% dry (not bypassed) to introduce the same delay into both channels. It uses some processing power, but if you really feel like you need to parallel process on this unit, that should get you there.
Sorry to be so off topic but does anybody know a tool to log back into an Instagram account? I was stupid forgot my password. I would love any assistance you can give me
@Deshawn Augustus Thanks for your reply. I got to the site on google and Im trying it out atm. Takes a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
I noticed this when trying to insert 660 compressor on my drums group. My work around was to insert 1 660 on my dry group with it doing no compression. And 1 on my durum group smashing them. Since the insert was the same on both groups they both arrived at the same time and were in phase. For bass I used the 1176. Same as above one inserted on my dry bass and one inserted on my crush bass. The fore no phaseing issues.
YES! I can't agree more! It has been fun diving into the XAir, planning on doing a full series on it. Let me know if you have any requests other than the full walkthrough of the mixer. Thanks!
It would have been nice to have been given an example of when to use this? As a new, FOH, self-taught sound tech, I am clueless if this is intermediate or advanced? It for sure is not basic...
Its the same also on X32 range, I tried it several times with same results, massive comb filtering. Like Jeremy Vasellina mentioned, it is possible to do it with using both inserted effects, one doing nothing a and second fully using, but it takes too much from effects and busses, so if you want to be really creative, it has some limits. I think, they didnt included advanced delay compensation on inserts/busses, because its the feature of higher class consoles, Midas Pro versions, and maybe M32 (im not sure about this one). It would be fantastic to have this, its surely solvable with FW upgrade, but I think they are not going to do it because economic and marketing reasons - if you want this feaute, buy another - more expensive console.
Hi, Drew. What about using the compressor as a channel insert? And what happens if you insert it into a bus channel and route your drums to that channel?
Could you send the drum channels to a spare mix bus, then assign mix bus back to MAIN LR? Would that bypass the latency from all the send/return processing?
Hey Drew, I'd like to know if there is any difference in just using the "mix" setting of the channel compressor instead of using a second bus and blending it into the uncompressed one. This would save two buses for stereo drums... :)
The ratio is working with another amount. Not the same I put first fader at my desire level and bring the another fader pushing or lowering (and viceversa). With the mix knob is up or down the dry or wet proportion.
In doing so you don't get the cohesive "gluing together" of channels, so yes. Also you're likely going to have different compression on each channel even if you make them all the same percentage of wet to dry. But there's no reason you can't parallel channels individually, and then send them to a bus for gluing.
I don know if this is a problem most XR18/X18 owners are going to run into. At least if your using the 6 buses for stage monitoring or as sends to iems. By the time you give every one a pre fader mix your down to probably 0 , 1 or 2 or flex buses. In at best case you have 1 stereo sub group or at worst 1 or 2 mono sub groups. At that point you might as well use a DCA (forgoing any bus processing) and save your self the trouble of flipping through layers to drive by DCA's and a Sub groups. The biggest problem with the X Air mixers is that the effect buses can't be sub groups and is probably my biggest complaint other than X-Edit for the PC sucks big time on a touch screen. and fun side fact Midas were showing off their rendition of the X-Air series at the last trade show.
Very true about the 6 busses for stage monitoring. You could use the FX sends as a sub group by sending the channels post fader at +0dB. That, in essence, is the same thing as a subgroup, just you are not able to link FX sends as a pair so there is no stereo panning kept. To get around not having the audio being altered, you can use a GEQ or TruEQ, but you would still have the insert delay. I need to test the insert delay times of the effects to see if they are the same as the X32. If you were not doing parallel compression, you would be able to get away with doing it this way!
Drew, as I understand it you are saying don't insert the effects compressors on the aux busses for it causes comb filtering. It was unclear if that same problem exists when inserting on the individual channels. Is comb filtering occuring when inserting compressors on the individual channels? Also do you know if this was corrected on the MR18?
Comb filtering happens when two of the same source signals are not arriving at the same time to its destination(L&R mains). Parallel Compression requires two signals of the same source to go to L&R. Hence comb filtering as the buss mix has delay from the plugin that it introduces. Comb filtering doesn’t happen with only one source(inserted on individual channels)
What about when you insert graphic equalizer on the main left right and the monitor sends? 2nd question, is it safe to use channel compressors along with 2 stereo buss compressors on both stereo buss groups?
This may show how noob I am, but what about this setup was parallel? It looked to me that when you turned up bus 2, you also turned down bus 1. Is channel 1 also going to main LR? And if so, why would you want to send both channel 1 and bus 2 (in your example) to main LR at the same time?
Its because you are sending audio to both bus 1 and 2 its being processed parallel. When i do parallel compression, due to latency, i will create 2 busses, insert the compressor on one buss but NOT compress the signal, and then on the second buss insert the compressor like the last time, but heavily compress it. This means that latency is compensated for so the signal arrives at the same time
Bus one in the video was showing the fact that there was no comb filtering when using the busses compressor. Bus 2 was showing comb filtering since it had a Compressor fx inserted which introduces slight latency.
Hi, I got a question, how about using the parallel compresion on 2 buses ( bus 1 non compress, bus 2 compress) and on both buses you insert the same plug in, but on bus 1 you make the threshold so high that it will not compress, the idea is to insert the same plug-in in both busses just to make them have the same delay time (phase) but only use one of those to really compress ;)
Of course, if you send a channel to a bus and apply a FX to that bus while you DON'T send the channel to LR, there wont be any phase problems [Except with noise you get from other mics of course].. I felt like it was important to precise this.
What happens if I insert the Combinator first on a vocal sub mix and again on the final matrix mix with everything going thru ? Would I get cone filtering?
Hey Kyle! With routing your vocals, as long as you didn't try to do any parallel compression like sending the vocals to the sub mix AND the LR bus at the same time, you would not get comb filtering. With the way you are describing, you are taking your vocals to the subgroup with the combinator inserted. Then from the subgroup you go to the LR bus, then the LR bus goes to your matrix where you have another combinator inserted. That would work just fine!
Thanks for measuring and showing these details! Did you also check what happens when using the fx buses to the main out, do they get compensated or not?
Y que sucede si convierto el BUS en subgrupo, lo ruteo hacia el MAIN L-R y lo comprimo exageradamente en su propio canal de compresion (sin rack FX). Para despues enviar señal a gusto de cada canal hacia el BUS
Clive Flint yup!! Although with more FX slots, you can assign a dry bus and a wet bus, insert the compressor on BOTH, but only apply compression on one, and the latency is equal on both.
What if I use the FX as a Sends group, rather than an Inserted FX to a bus. I've been using it that way, is their still delay in the compressor? I would assume that you're getting some kind of latency because 1) you're routing audio to a bus, 2) then you're applying an insert, 3) then you're routing the audio back AGAIN to the MainLR. Any thoughts?
Hey! Any time you are inserting something with latency on one audio path, there will be a misalignment with the audio the latent audio sums with the non processed audio. The only way to do this if you needed to do an effect compressor (rather than the built in compression) is to run two different compressors with the audio, one with the compression and one without any compression just passing through the effect. Thanks!
I have a problem the XR12 RED MUTE has vanished...i its place there is the GREEN On on each channel...I have no RED MASTER mute. so How do I restore???
Hello, Greetings from colombia. Im not good with english.... but maybe you say that is better use in this console compressor insert in the bus that send the fx(Compressor) in the bus?.......... Maybe use the Send only with delays, reverbs or sometime like that??
Hi Drew how are you? But don't you think with still can do parallel it if we send the signal through two stereo buses, one for compression and the other stereo bus for the signal instead send it straight to the main LR so you can have the same amount of delay on both signals but of course the XR18 is baby mixer with only 6 buses haha good video bro!
I don't know if you still do videos on the X Air 18, but I recently purchased one and would like to send my main L/R mix instead of from the M/L XLR out, to the USB out. Any suggestions on how to do this? I'm trying to send a very well mixed signal that would normally go out of a FOH PA into OBS Recording / Streaming Software.
Via the USB port you can only record the signals directly at the preamps. So you can only record unmixed signals and i dont think there is a software workaround. You can record your LR mix by looping it back into the preamps. So for example send the LR to busses 1 and 2. Connect the xlr outs of the busses with some free xlr inputs of the console. Record those inputs. It seems quite ridiciulous but i dont know another way to send your main out to a streaming software.
Yeah would also like to know if this is an issue with the Midas M32? And also is it an issue if I source a channel from another channel? In my band I use for instance channel 4 for Bas and then I use channel 5 with source from channel 4 and do som eeffect compression on channel 5, would it be an issue in that case also? I do it because I then EQ channel 4 to be Bas bite/attack/highs and channel 5 to be bas lows with hvy compression
I can't confirm if it happens with the M32. If I get my hands on one I can test it out! If you use the channel EQ and Dynamics it will be compensated and not have any issues, however, if you insert a FX rack onto a channel it will add latency with the X32.
I think that compression is only valid if you are doing vocals. We want to "average" it out, so that it sounds good. Every other channel does not need compression if there is a High-Low problem. Musicianship is very good, so why would you need to use compression?
Can someone tell me why my main outs on my speakers sound like there compressed? I checked and no compressor is engaged, I turn it up and they sound like super compressed
Great question, it is the Pyle-Pro PMHM2. Works well for how much it costs! www.amazon.com/Pyle-Pro-PMHM2-Omni-directional-Microphone-3-5mm/dp/B003D2U08E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1485625090&sr=8-1&keywords=pyle-pro+headset
Yes it does happen to the X32. But if you use the built in mixbus compressor, it is fine. Only when you insert an effects rack onto that mixbus and combine it with a signal that does not go through the same effect.
It is my understanding that the processing Software in the M32 and MAir 18 is exactly the same as the Behringer software with slight changes to the GUI (i.e. logos). That is why you can use the sister applications to remotely operate things (i.e. use X32 Edit to program an M32).
It's not possible to compress DCAs on any console. Audio is not sent thru a DCA, the DCA is basically just a "remote control" for one or more channels or buses. Audio does not pass thru a DCA any more than video passes thru your TV remote. It's important not to confuse a DCA with a bus, which does actually carry audio.
If you have the resources you should be able to insert the same processor on both channels and have one set to 1:1 or 100% dry (not bypassed) to introduce the same delay into both channels. It uses some processing power, but if you really feel like you need to parallel process on this unit, that should get you there.
Sorry to be so off topic but does anybody know a tool to log back into an Instagram account?
I was stupid forgot my password. I would love any assistance you can give me
@Isaiah Musa instablaster ;)
@Deshawn Augustus Thanks for your reply. I got to the site on google and Im trying it out atm.
Takes a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Deshawn Augustus It did the trick and I finally got access to my account again. I'm so happy!
Thanks so much, you really help me out :D
@Isaiah Musa Glad I could help =)
I noticed this when trying to insert 660 compressor on my drums group. My work around was to insert 1 660 on my dry group with it doing no compression. And 1 on my durum group smashing them. Since the insert was the same on both groups they both arrived at the same time and were in phase. For bass I used the 1176. Same as above one inserted on my dry bass and one inserted on my crush bass. The fore no phaseing issues.
That is a perfect way to do it Jeremy! Now if only there were more mixbusses!
I know right! I know you have done some stuff with behringer . Maybe you could suggest that in a future update or a new console.
...and more fx slots ja!
Awesome. Finally an xr18 video. Hope more videos are to come :DDD
YES! I can't agree more! It has been fun diving into the XAir, planning on doing a full series on it. Let me know if you have any requests other than the full walkthrough of the mixer. Thanks!
Drew Brashler can't wait. Your videos are very helpful. 👍🏼
It would have been nice to have been given an example of when to use this? As a new, FOH, self-taught sound tech, I am clueless if this is intermediate or advanced? It for sure is not basic...
Its the same also on X32 range, I tried it several times with same results, massive comb filtering. Like Jeremy Vasellina mentioned, it is possible to do it with using both inserted effects, one doing nothing a and second fully using, but it takes too much from effects and busses, so if you want to be really creative, it has some limits. I think, they didnt included advanced delay compensation on inserts/busses, because its the feature of higher class consoles, Midas Pro versions, and maybe M32 (im not sure about this one). It would be fantastic to have this, its surely solvable with FW upgrade, but I think they are not going to do it because economic and marketing reasons - if you want this feaute, buy another - more expensive console.
Hi, Drew.
What about using the compressor as a channel insert? And what happens if you insert it into a bus channel and route your drums to that channel?
Concise, informative, and well spoken. Subscribed.
@Cyrus Ulises Wouldn't a keylogger work much better?
Could you send the drum channels to a spare mix bus, then assign mix bus back to MAIN LR? Would that bypass the latency from all the send/return processing?
Hey Drew,
I'd like to know if there is any difference in just using the "mix" setting of the channel compressor instead of using a second bus and blending it into the uncompressed one. This would save two buses for stereo drums... :)
Yes, the mix knob would give you a form of parallel compression without having to worry about the latency of the effect!
But will it sound the same? Or is there any other technical difference one has to keep in mind?
Boa tarde gostava de saber como enviar o som do PC para x18
The ratio is working with another amount. Not the same I put first fader at my desire level and bring the another fader pushing or lowering (and viceversa). With the mix knob is up or down the dry or wet proportion.
In doing so you don't get the cohesive "gluing together" of channels, so yes. Also you're likely going to have different compression on each channel even if you make them all the same percentage of wet to dry. But there's no reason you can't parallel channels individually, and then send them to a bus for gluing.
I don know if this is a problem most XR18/X18 owners are going to run into. At least if your using the 6 buses for stage monitoring or as sends to iems. By the time you give every one a pre fader mix your down to probably 0 , 1 or 2 or flex buses. In at best case you have 1 stereo sub group or at worst 1 or 2 mono sub groups. At that point you might as well use a DCA (forgoing any bus processing) and save your self the trouble of flipping through layers to drive by DCA's and a Sub groups. The biggest problem with the X Air mixers is that the effect buses can't be sub groups and is probably my biggest complaint other than X-Edit for the PC sucks big time on a touch screen.
and fun side fact Midas were showing off their rendition of the X-Air series at the last trade show.
Very true about the 6 busses for stage monitoring. You could use the FX sends as a sub group by sending the channels post fader at +0dB. That, in essence, is the same thing as a subgroup, just you are not able to link FX sends as a pair so there is no stereo panning kept. To get around not having the audio being altered, you can use a GEQ or TruEQ, but you would still have the insert delay. I need to test the insert delay times of the effects to see if they are the same as the X32. If you were not doing parallel compression, you would be able to get away with doing it this way!
Could we manually add delay to the channel path until the comb filering is reduced? Is there a flat amount of delay for la-2a 1176 Fairchild?
Not available on this budget console.
Drew, as I understand it you are saying don't insert the effects compressors on the aux busses for it causes comb filtering. It was unclear if that same problem exists when inserting on the individual channels. Is comb filtering occuring when inserting compressors on the individual channels? Also do you know if this was corrected on the MR18?
DOES IT AFFECT INDIVIDUALS ?
Comb filtering happens when two of the same source signals are not arriving at the same time to its destination(L&R mains). Parallel Compression requires two signals of the same source to go to L&R. Hence comb filtering as the buss mix has delay from the plugin that it introduces. Comb filtering doesn’t happen with only one source(inserted on individual channels)
What about when you insert graphic equalizer on the main left right and the monitor sends?
2nd question, is it safe to use channel compressors along with 2 stereo buss compressors on both stereo buss groups?
SO FOR NORMAL COMPRESSING 1 CHANEL DONT DO IT ON THE EFFECTS THEN WHATS THE POINT OF ALL THE EFFECT IF THEY ARE DELAYED ???
This may show how noob I am, but what about this setup was parallel? It looked to me that when you turned up bus 2, you also turned down bus 1. Is channel 1 also going to main LR? And if so, why would you want to send both channel 1 and bus 2 (in your example) to main LR at the same time?
Its because you are sending audio to both bus 1 and 2 its being processed parallel. When i do parallel compression, due to latency, i will create 2 busses, insert the compressor on one buss but NOT compress the signal, and then on the second buss insert the compressor like the last time, but heavily compress it. This means that latency is compensated for so the signal arrives at the same time
Bus one in the video was showing the fact that there was no comb filtering when using the busses compressor. Bus 2 was showing comb filtering since it had a Compressor fx inserted which introduces slight latency.
Hi, I got a question, how about using the parallel compresion on 2 buses ( bus 1 non compress, bus 2 compress) and on both buses you insert the same plug in, but on bus 1 you make the threshold so high that it will not compress, the idea is to insert the same plug-in in both busses just to make them have the same delay time (phase) but only use one of those to really compress ;)
Yes! This is the workaround!
Would a work around be to send all drums to the sub group that has the effect then blend the "mix" on the compressor to be less than 100%?
Of course, if you send a channel to a bus and apply a FX to that bus while you DON'T send the channel to LR, there wont be any phase problems [Except with noise you get from other mics of course].. I felt like it was important to precise this.
What happens if I insert the Combinator first on a vocal sub mix and again on the final matrix mix with everything going thru ? Would I get cone filtering?
Hey Kyle! With routing your vocals, as long as you didn't try to do any parallel compression like sending the vocals to the sub mix AND the LR bus at the same time, you would not get comb filtering. With the way you are describing, you are taking your vocals to the subgroup with the combinator inserted. Then from the subgroup you go to the LR bus, then the LR bus goes to your matrix where you have another combinator inserted. That would work just fine!
So in short IF I want to do a PARALLEL COMP I need to NOT use the advanced effects COMP but rather the more built in to the ch. ???
good find. excellent explanation especially if you understand Smaart which I do.
Thanks for measuring and showing these details! Did you also check what happens when using the fx buses to the main out, do they get compensated or not?
Drew - do you know what the Auto Time button does on the Compressor on the XR18?
Y que sucede si convierto el BUS en subgrupo, lo ruteo hacia el MAIN L-R y lo comprimo exageradamente en su propio canal de compresion (sin rack FX). Para despues enviar señal a gusto de cada canal hacia el BUS
I'm assuming this happens on the x32 as well?
Yes! It does happen with the X32!
Clive Flint yup!! Although with more FX slots, you can assign a dry bus and a wet bus, insert the compressor on BOTH, but only apply compression on one, and the latency is equal on both.
@@ped2257 I would also like to know
Can you do a video on where you connect the speakers
What if I use the FX as a Sends group, rather than an Inserted FX to a bus. I've been using it that way, is their still delay in the compressor? I would assume that you're getting some kind of latency because 1) you're routing audio to a bus, 2) then you're applying an insert, 3) then you're routing the audio back AGAIN to the MainLR. Any thoughts?
Hey! Any time you are inserting something with latency on one audio path, there will be a misalignment with the audio the latent audio sums with the non processed audio. The only way to do this if you needed to do an effect compressor (rather than the built in compression) is to run two different compressors with the audio, one with the compression and one without any compression just passing through the effect. Thanks!
what if you use that compressor directly on the channel?
THATS A QUESTION ASKED HERE ALLOT HE SAID ASK AT THE END OF THE VID BUT HE DIDINT SAY HED REPLY AHHAHAHAH DID U FIGURE IT OUT ?? OSMIUM
I have a problem the XR12 RED MUTE has vanished...i its place there is the GREEN On on each channel...I have no RED MASTER mute. so How do I restore???
Does it happen with X32 mixers too? Thanks
DID U FIND OUT DOES IT??
same thing
Hello, Greetings from colombia. Im not good with english.... but maybe you say that is better use in this console compressor insert in the bus that send the fx(Compressor) in the bus?.......... Maybe use the Send only with delays, reverbs or sometime like that??
Hi Drew how are you?
But don't you think with still can do parallel it if we send the signal through two stereo buses, one for compression and the other stereo bus for the signal instead send it straight to the main LR so you can have the same amount of delay on both signals
but of course the XR18 is baby mixer with only 6 buses haha
good video bro!
That was good to know. Thank you very much!
I don't know if you still do videos on the X Air 18, but I recently purchased one and would like to send my main L/R mix instead of from the M/L XLR out, to the USB out.
Any suggestions on how to do this?
I'm trying to send a very well mixed signal that would normally go out of a FOH PA into OBS Recording / Streaming Software.
Via the USB port you can only record the signals directly at the preamps. So you can only record unmixed signals and i dont think there is a software workaround. You can record your LR mix by looping it back into the preamps. So for example send the LR to busses 1 and 2. Connect the xlr outs of the busses with some free xlr inputs of the console. Record those inputs.
It seems quite ridiciulous but i dont know another way to send your main out to a streaming software.
@@NicoScholz90 In/Out -> USB Sends lets you patch a bus to a pair of USB channels (inputs, from the computer's POV)
Yeah would also like to know if this is an issue with the Midas M32?
And also is it an issue if I source a channel from another channel?
In my band I use for instance channel 4 for Bas and then I use channel 5 with source from channel 4 and do som eeffect compression on channel 5, would it be an issue in that case also?
I do it because I then EQ channel 4 to be Bas bite/attack/highs and channel 5 to be bas lows with hvy compression
I can't confirm if it happens with the M32. If I get my hands on one I can test it out! If you use the channel EQ and Dynamics it will be compensated and not have any issues, however, if you insert a FX rack onto a channel it will add latency with the X32.
It is same with X32 ?
Excellent video. Thank you
does this also happen if i put the vocals through the dual combinator (multiband compressor) on midas mr18?
I think that compression is only valid if you are doing vocals. We want to "average" it out, so that it sounds good. Every other channel does not need compression if there is a High-Low problem. Musicianship is very good, so why would you need to use compression?
its a buggy "concept" software? perharps in new versions ???
Can someone tell me why my main outs on my speakers sound like there compressed? I checked and no compressor is engaged, I turn it up and they sound like super compressed
DID U SOLVE IT ?
andy M nope
Do you have a limiter on your amp(s). Perhaps they are set too high and are smashing it hard.
Wow i cant believe behringer dosent do delay comp. That needs to be fixed
very informative video. thank you!
Thank you!
whats the name model Of the mic used to record the narrators voice
Great question, it is the Pyle-Pro PMHM2. Works well for how much it costs! www.amazon.com/Pyle-Pro-PMHM2-Omni-directional-Microphone-3-5mm/dp/B003D2U08E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1485625090&sr=8-1&keywords=pyle-pro+headset
great video. thank you
Great video! Thanks : )
Ah, that could explain some odd audio we've had!
what analyzer are you using ?
He is using a program called Smaart.
thx
this happen with x32 as well
Yes it does happen to the X32. But if you use the built in mixbus compressor, it is fine. Only when you insert an effects rack onto that mixbus and combine it with a signal that does not go through the same effect.
Thank you so much. Thank you for replying and thank you for all the knowledge I have learned by watching all of your videos.
is this only true for the xair, or is this across the behringer line. does the m32 suffer from this lack of compensation on the fx rack as well?
nm, saw this has already been asked. thanks for the vid!
does this also happen on midas (Boehringer type) of mixers like m32 ?
I can't confirm if it happens with the M32. If I get my hands on one I can test it out!
It is my understanding that the processing Software in the M32 and MAir 18 is exactly the same as the Behringer software with slight changes to the GUI (i.e. logos). That is why you can use the sister applications to remotely operate things (i.e. use X32 Edit to program an M32).
Compression is overrated
Can you compress DCA's on the x32?
It's not possible to compress DCAs on any console. Audio is not sent thru a DCA, the DCA is basically just a "remote control" for one or more channels or buses. Audio does not pass thru a DCA any more than video passes thru your TV remote. It's important not to confuse a DCA with a bus, which does actually carry audio.