I just like imagining Darth Magog and Clone Commander 5 going out to hunt Jedi. Darth Magog: Well Clone Commander 5, looks like it's your turn to teach them a lesson. Clone Commander 5: Yeah! Right out of Kamino University! Jedi: Hold on, you went to college? Clone Commander 5: Yup. Jedi: What the hell could someone like you possibly major in? Clone Commander 5: Child Psychology. Jedi: Wow, that sounds really interesting. Clone Commander 5: WITH A MINOR IN PAIN!!! *Clone Commander 5 starts blasting the Jedi*
Honestly, I'd love to see them in action; seeing the incredible quality of these analyses, I can only begin to imagine their impeccable rebel-fighting skills.
Yeah, I agree. So it came full circle. Considering Morel Orel is based on a show called, 'Davey and Goliath' which I've never actually seen, but am told is just un-ironic Morel Orel. The pictures of the show sure look like that.
Grieving for someone you love surrounded by people that healthy support you emotionally as a child is hard. But Grieving for someone that was disfellowshiped as a Jehovah's witness, or Grieving for someone that never was Jehovah's witness (like a class mate for example) while being surrounded by Jehovah's witness adults can, and is most times emotionally scarring.
My mom isn't dead, but I remember when I was like 5 and my father would tell me that in paradise we aren't allowed to mourn those who are left behind. They will be just dust under our feet. I was horrified to think that I would walk over my mom and wouldn't even no it. JW beliefs in death and mourning are not in anyway healthy.
@@Siiseliify Yeah the way my relatives would explain it to their kids was basically, "If you don't love Jehovah then Jehovah will make us forget you ever even existed, we wouldn't be sad bc we wouldn't even remember you", it's actually super messed and gives you extra deep anxieties about death...
For me it's weird how Caleb and Sophia's first reactions to these situations are so relatable. It's kind of scary like the animators are putting little glimpses of "save us" messages or something in these videos. Like when when Caleb showed his warriorwizard to his mom and that sigh, when he realizes that he has disappointed his mom. First time I saw that I nodded and said to myself "same, dude." Then I laughed and started crying. I just remembered that frustration when I couldn't talk about my interests with my father and stepmother with being punished. My therapist actually thinks that my autism and love for Harry Potter and Disney saved me from JW, because my passion for them for more powerful than fear of Jehovah. And my father joined after divorce, so I had to go to the meetings just every other Sunday.
Oh and the worst part is, it's consistent across the board. They even have a dating movie that shows the teenage protagonist being nervous to even talk to her parents, and they immediately browbeat her over it. That said, I'm glad your passions burned brighter than Jehovah. He doesn't deserve someone as good as you!
I was fine and I was fine and I was fine and then the tears came and didn’t stop. Stupid Jehovah. (Context: I have a genetic disorder that’s slowly killing me since birth and the rate of „slowly killing“ is now rapidly accelerating with an expected death by age 40.)
@@LordTails cool guy who gives cool fiction and let's people buy second hand vs inconsistent guy who's feelings are the most important thing in the World and therefore let's my father think that all the bad things he did, are forgiven
My catholic cousin was told his grandpa “ was in a better place”. He told me years later he hated grandpa because he went to a place without him or us, and how dare he “escape the terror of our family, cause we’re shit. Basically.” Some phrases can really mess a person up even if it’s “ good intentions “.
@@girlofthealpines why not just tell the child the truth at the level of understanding they’re at? Lying to a child about life and reality will only cause problems later, especially about them trusting you as a parent when they are older. Death itself is not scary, only the threat religions give of punishment after you die (which there’s no evidence of).
Sofia leaving the JWs someday: It's funny how some distance makes everything seem small, and the fears that once controlled me, can't get to me at all~ It's time to see what I can do, to test the limits and break through~ No right, no wrong, no rules for me! I'm FREEEEEEE~!
A rival studio should do follow-up animations to show what would really happen as a result of their upbringing (disillusionment with the reli- I mean, cult, the resulting trauma, etc), but also show ways that they'd be able to successfully navigate through the rest of their life in spite of it all.
I guess we actually SHOULD create a competing animation series. Very similar, just different enough to not get caught by copyright and intellectual property laws. It would catch the attention of kids (and some adults, that would show it to their kids) that would try it because it looks like the "original", then they would get a story that explains real life and gives good life advices, but in a way that won't be too obvious at first glance. They do propaganda on kids, we should do counter-propaganda to save them.
As an autistic adult, I applaud Five for the work done to understand childhood grief. Death is traumatizing to children, and when you’re autistic and are slowing down mental age-wise while you grow older, grief can affect you like you’re a child. My mom passed when I was 15, and I mark that as the day I severely slowed down aging mentally, all due to the fact I heard the doctor who was taking care of her whisper “I think she’s dead.” to the nurse while he was preparing to give her the next dose of euthanasia. When it was time for her final dose, I had to leave the room because I knew I’d try to stop it. I didn’t want her to go. Imagine how a child would feel if they heard what that doctor said, how they’d react when it was time for the last dose. I had no idea how to process this, and some days I still have no idea, despite it almost being 6 years. My grief was improperly managed, and I feel like if it hadn’t been handled in such a poor way, I’d have a better understanding and processing capability of grief. I can only imagine the trauma that improperly managed grief could inflict on a child, let alone a JW child. You both did amazing like always. Keep fighting the good fight against JWs.
If it wasn't for that last bit about the Jehovah being the requirement for friendship, it's actually a pretty good video. Fighting for free speech makes Elsa pretty badass, even if it is just the right to practice a goofy religion (which is a human right of course)
I'm a Christian and I've lost both my parents, my dad died when I was 15 or so at hospital in Louisville KY during the winter and I walked home in the snow. Grief and rage filled me as I hated everyone and thing and I lost my faith that walk. It's back but I'm saying this because death to a kid or teen is very similar and the closer the person the great the emotion. Yes saying to pray is good to help I agree but a to a child that doesn't help the pain at all. They need love and someone there to get down to their level and show them their not alone.... I didn't have that, I had the snow and downtown Louisville as I walked to our apartment. This is evil and cold, why don't they just comfort them, yeah you can talk about God and the comfort of passed individual but not like don't leave them to their own sorrow WTF!?
@Dr Zaius: FWIW, feeling that anger isn’t just for teens. I was upset when my mom died almost seven years ago. It took a while to sort it all out, even with comfort and help. I didn’t rage at God, but I definitely raged a bit.
My mom was having a hard time at one point in her life (before I was born) and all her Christian friends kept telling her to "pray about it" when she tried to confide in them. She finally talked to my grandmother about it who held her and told her, "praying is good but, sometimes you just need someone with skin on."
As someone who was homeschooled but not religiously I really appreciate you guys talking about childhood isolation. Luckily we had group homeschooling sessions once a week but still, it was hard not having so many friends my own age It was best I was homeschooled due to disabilities but it was still hard, and seeing other people talking about it is very therapeutic for me ^^ thank you! Love your channel
Thanks for pointing out how even when it is a good or the best option, that homeschooling has serious drawbacks. Everyone I meet wants to paint it in black and white, including me, who was homeschooled for both good and bad reasons, and I think it's important to note the nuances.
@@drcloudy yes absolutely !! it's incredibly nuanced and depends on the kid also I've heard a lot of people say that homeschooling is only for religious kids which is odd to me when most homeschoolers I met had severe food allergies to very common things (can't be in the same room as dairy or something like that)
@SkippieFritz yeah I always hear "people only homeschool who want to abuse their kids" and that kind of statement just shuts down the conversation. It's so much more complex than that. Like yes that was 80 percent the case for me but that statement is such a gross oversimplifcation of it.
@@skippiefritz The narrative isn't helped by parents who get angry at their school board and pull kids out. Last few years a few families pulled kids out because of masking requirements in our local board. It's sad, and it just makes you sad for the kids.
As an ex-Evangelical, these videos ring a lot of bells for my own childhood. I'm starting to understand where my toxic shame and pathological guilt came from.
Man I remember when my Grandma, a Jehovah's witness, tried to explain to me that death was just sleeping. I was 6 years old and ended up crying for hours. Who thought that was a good idea?!?!?
Definitely not those who fully understand the damage it can cause by this. Telling your child that they're sleeping or using other forms of euphemism when a loved one dies is not very helpful, even with good intentions. 😬😬😬
Yeah the Watchtower is made up entirely of plumbers and carpenters. Brilliant if you need a building put together quickly. Not so good for professional grief counseling. They're just not an organization equipped for that.
as a christian and someone who grew up in a strict religious household, a lot of jehovah's witnesses are very similar to close family friends of mine. Straight down to indoctrinating others into the religion, ive got a lot of suppressed religious trauma and i remember being picked up early from school bc halloween was happening in the school (as in kids dressed up, and went door to door in the school getting candy) bc halloween was of the devil to them... i remember wanting to cry bc i never got to experience halloween, it only added fuel for others to bully me as well. this kinda stuff is no longer just limited to JWs, although from what ive seen its definitely not as bad as being a JW straight up. idk what id do if i were a JW. i feel so bad for them lol *EDIT:* holy freaking smokes, just realized i called my family friends by "sister" and "brother". we're pentecostal, which follows closely to the word of god. up until abt less than a century ago, we couldnt cut our hair nor wear anything but skirts apparently!
I was raised in a christian family and still am in fact christian, and I don't think I ever had such problems. About the halloween thing, halloween always was a party which hardly anybody celebrated. Additionally the day after is all saints day and free work day (an occasion where you light candles on graves and pray for people who already died, except not because there are two separate occasions which got melted together since the other one is not a work free day) My family never took anything some people considered "devilish" (like pokemon or harry potter) as that, especially since these things came out of priests which only had audiacity, and higher placed priests would usually deny such statements (I still never read any HP book. Not because it was evil but because I didn't cared enough and didn't want to) Additionally most priests or relligion people I've met were rather nice and understanding people, who would usually either agree or tolerate my opinions on some more... let's say controvelsial ideas. I haven't met any that would say that something is bad because it's devilish because [some convoluted and nonsensical argument], so my experience with priests was mostly possitive (sure, there was an old grumpy man once in a while, but that was rare for me. So yea, I myself did not ever had a problem with being banned from going to certain events or having friends because "religion". If this has any importance I may add that I live in eastern Poland. I know that location can actually have a lot of importance on how "people of faith" treat themselves and each other around the world and in different regions.
Weird. I'm Baptist and my family was never like that, well a wee tiny bet I wasn't allowed to have like symbols like pentagrams or dress up as a demon or devil but that's loose. Like if it was a fictional demon like Freddy or pinhead my mom felt haveing and getting scared was perfectly fine. She used argue with some Baptist fundamentalist about it. Liquor was fine as long as you don't lose control ect, I was raised to see God as loving and understanding not this hateful being JV have. To me God gets angry sure but doesn't ask alot of us. Love him and love Christ, love your brothers and sisters and warn them of their stupidity and if they reject you and God well that's on them. They doesn't mean you reject them for God didn't reject you when you were at your lowest. He was there even if you didn't know it and that's we should be, ready to extend that hand when they need even if they never knew you was there.
My family was super strict Fundamental Baptist. It was a lot like being JW from what I can tell. I was never allowed to wear pants or sleeveless shirts, no shorts for my brothers, no swimsuits, no Halloween, and there were a couple of discussions on whether we should even celebrate Christmas until my dad found a program showing that it wasn't REALLY pagan. Definitely no Santa Claus. I used to cry myself to sleep begging God to save my younger siblings because I had horrible images of them being thrown into Hell while I couldn't do anything. Everything in our lives revolved around the church; we even had 4+ services a week for a while. Plus being homeschooled. And never went to the doctor unless a bone was broken... Yeah.
I always had a fear, still do to a degree, about going to sleep at night when I was a kid. Till this day, I never knew why. This video gave me a reason that might have been an issue. The term "falling asleep in death". I used to cry in bed and worry that I wasn't going to wake up. I'd mentally say my goodbyes to my family before falling asleep.
It is an awful analogy. When I was in my 16ish, I had some traumatic incidents that ended up leading me to thinking I could die while I slept, and it made me so terrified I couldn't fall asleep. I literally would wake up in a panic attack the moment I lost conscience. And I was already 16 and a really logical girl. Can't imagine what that would do to a child
My lord and Commander Fives, I must share a chuckle regarding someone who told me when I was a youngling of two years old that my grandma was “sleeping.” My response was, “she’s not sleeping, she’s dead!” Oh, I am sure the tongues of church ladies wagged, but my mom thought my reaction was brilliant.
Oh, I know all about grief! February 25 is going to mark three years since we lost my grandfather. Well, he was my step grandfather, but he was the one who was in my life and left the positive impact he did. Some time in 2018, he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's Disease. It started with him forgetting to take his meds, forgetting to brush his teeth, and forgetting basic stuff. But... it progressed. He was starting to forget about my grandmother. He'd threaten to call his parents to pick him up. His parents have been gone for years then. He was eventually put into a nursing home after Thanksgiving of 2019. As we were leaving, I said to me, "I don't remember your name, but I do remember that I love you." Then, we saw him on CHRISTMAS FUCKING DAY and he asked me who I was being dead serious. February of 2020, he got sick with something (I think pneumonia). I saw him one last time. It took me three tries to get the courage to see him. Once, I turned around half way to his room. Second time, I got to the doorway of his room, and chickened out again. Third time, I walked in, and he wasn't awake. Not dead, but not awake. I said to my grandmother, "He probably doesn't even remember my ass." And she said something I'll never forget, "No, he loves you." I held his hand one last time. I fucking hate that the last memory of my grandfather was him, unconscious, with tubes and pipes shoved down his throat, and his right hand all bandaged up in case he woke up and panicked and tried to rip them out. He didn't. February 25, 2020, he passed away not knowing who any of us were. I didn't pray for him. What 'God' would allow this!? If he can't just snap his fingers and fix Pop, then he's not all-powerful. If he doesn't want to, then he's evil!
I started reading this because February 25 is my birthday, my grandmother had Alzheimer’s and my mom died in the hospital so I’m really sorry for what you went through and I just want you to know I took the time to read all of this
This really hurts. Just thinking of this child who never gets to sit with her grief. I wonder, if Sophia was able to get out, how it would feel to remember that she was lied to and manipulated after losing one of her only friends, during a deeply isolating time in her life? I was never in a cult or even religious, but I am autistic, and I was very lonely as a kid, often went through years without any friends, and it really fucks you up, it's like you lose huge chunks of your childhood. The fact that Sophia made this rare connection with someone and then lost that person, and instead of getting to process her feelings in a healthy way, was pushed into more worship and obsession with Jehovah... it's like a distraction. She isn't able to send off Sister Elsa in a way that feels respectful, fulfilling, compassionate, and treasures their memories and friendship. Instead, she has to look away from her pain and prioritize her god. It's absolutely awful and has me so emotional.
I think any adult that’s experiencing grief can also tell you that “they’re in a better place” isn’t really comforting because it just feels like you’re telling that person they have no reason to be upset. The idea behind it is comforting, but I think it’s really important to show a kid that being upset is okay and that you’ll be there for them while they process.
Children and older adults can have a healthy friendship. Growing up, I had an older Asian woman that all the children called Grandma CC. She got me hooked on chocolate cake with red bean paste.
Agreed. Ironically, Sister Elsa was a good example of that. Very much a grandmotherly kind of mentor figure. I think that's very healthy. It's just the JW culture opens up too many doors for the... less healthy "relationships" to come through.
@zaplepikachu it was. It was two 9 inch circle cakes that sandwiched the red bean paste. I can't remember the icing used. It was sweet and earthy tasting, but it helped blend the two flavors very well for us American kids. She made it once a month, and every kid got a piece.
@@erikagehm2805 Regular Devil's Food or Red Velvet? And was the icing mixed with the red bean paste filling? Or just red bean paste in the middle of the cake separate of the frosting? A buttercream mixed with red bean paste sounds good tho...
Wow, way to disregard a little girl’s grief! Sister Elsa died, Sister Elsa will come back, Sesame Street has an episode where one of the characters died and there is a scene where Big Bird is told Mr. Hooper isn’t coming back, he’s dead shameful on watchtower
id like to chime in with my own experiences regarding to mortality and children. When i was seven, one of our dogs, who was also seven, got sick and died. i remember my parents being heartbroken about it. i connected the dots that, if the dog could die at seven, i could die at seven. this led to my first existential crisis fueled panic attack, at the age of seven, and i have had them regularly ever since. i am now 29. through recent therapy I've come to terms with the fact that I'm not actually afraid of "death" but actually having PTSD reactions to the trauma caused by having such a large panic attack at such a young age and getting no help to process it. Parents. please, do research into child psychology and learn the actual ways to teach kids about mortality. that shit can mess you up for a long time. Just because they stopped crying and.or telling you about it doesn't mean the issue is gone.
When I was fifteen, my brother's friend he fell out with died to leukaemia; she was only fourteen. That started a traumatic response, panic attacks and obsessive health anxiety around cancer that spiralled into Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. It felt like the exact same reasons as you-if she could die at fourteen, I could die at fifteen or sixteen. I didn't even process that she had a specific genetic mutation/family history which predisposed her to the cancer, i just thought taut dying as a teenager of cancer was inevitable to EVERYONE. Then we had several other instances of cancer in our extended social circle after that-diagnosis after diagnosis after diagnosis, and another death-that reinforced my belief that everyone got cancer and died before they could ever have the chance to live their life without taking it for granted. That the very body you live in is fundamentally unsafe and cannot be trusted to not show symptoms of some deadly disease every couple of days. I couldn't even register that there were plenty of survivors, even including another teenage friend of my brother (unrelated to the first one). All I could see was my life ending at fifteen and that cancer was was death sentence/always diagnosed too late to save people. I'm turning twenty-three this year and I still feel stuck in this response, as if I feel I'm back in high school learning about the death again. It happened around the time I was trying to process the idea of the Catholicism/Christianity that I was raised with being wrong and that death might just exist without an afterlife. I kept it all in because the idea of it was too unbearable to process without emotionally opening up, and I couldn't open up because I went to a Catholic school and my parents are lightly Catholic (not really practising outside of my mum's mild mass attendance with extended family and working at a Catholic school, but still believing in heaven and all that). I felt too scared to talk to anyone about it out of a fear I'd be rude or offend them by "breaking their view of reality" and making them feel my trauma. I was too afraid I'd break them the way I felt broken, or be punished and rejected by being rude to people, and that they couldn't answer my existential questions about death and meaning without religion. I was afraid of uncertainty and being helpless to process it without other people trying to bring me back to religion with "Oh she's in a better place! Oh she's gone to heaven and shes watching over her loved ones!", which just made feel angry and bitter at what I felt to be shallow bandaid platitudes over the festering deep wound, refusing to face the actual hard impact of mortality and a person not being around anymore or what it means to die/not live forever. Addressing mortality properly and appropriately, facing that pain and accept it head on and grieving/processing it, is far better than burying it under empty platitudes in my opinion. It does damage to shut down questions with stories.
Looking on it, it would actually be an interesting idea to reboot Caleb and Sophia. Instead of being basically propaganda for children, it could be written into a horror webseries. The dangers of cults and overzealous religion, and I can even see some good symbolism with maybe certain figures from the JW books are like distorted monsters from how Caleb and Sophia remember their childhood, and the overall chronic darkness of said place.
I have pledged my subscription to you, Lord Magog. I am honored to be an an agent of your army ✊ Seriously though, love what you do. I’m really glad to have found this channel ❤
At my kingdom hall age gap relationships/marriages were common. It was pretty normal to see 18/19 year old girls married to really old men. Even though I left the church as a teenager I still married an older man. It just didn't feel abnormal to me. Death was always a strange topic. I heard the "they went to sleep" line so much. Even though it's been around 20 years since I left I still have a fear of dying in my sleep.
@@DarthMagog For sure. I think age gap relationships can be fine but it's different when you're groomed from a young age to expect it. it seems pretty standard for Kingdom halls to ignore abuse that happens from encouraging such relationships. I remember when I was 14 an elder (who was in his 70s) took a "special interest" in me. I tried to report it but it just got me in trouble for lying about an elder. That's just the way it works in this religion.
I will give credit for one thing and one thing only: the sequences with Sophia bonding with the old lady and the flashbacks are decently done, and it’s a rare case of JW rattling off about *actual* persecution they historically faced rather than whinging about how being rejected by certain facets of mainstream society means they’re right about Jesus or something.
Right? The Sister Elsa video is ALMOST wholesome. They present a pretty badass woman who serves as a strong mentor & role model for Sophia, then utterly ruins it.
The commentary on the death episode actually reminds me of something. There was an episode of Sesame Street back in the 70s or 80s that touched on the subject of death. Big Bird was confused and insisted that his friend would be back later, and the adults had to explain to him that when you die, you can't come back. Handled the subject in a much better way than JW did. Obviously, Sesame Street is secular and features a cast of characters from all different walks of life, but it seems to come down to two things: the creators' understanding of the child's mind,and their intention. As an early childhood educator myself, I LOVE children's media that portrays a range of emotions as normal. Caleb & Sophia just...does not do that. It teaches kids that in the end, your feelings don't matter- but the feelings of an entity we can't even see absolutely do. It's fascinating and sad. It would be so interesting to research the psychological development of kids raised with media like this vs. kids raised on secular educational media some day. Like, I know there's a difference, but I'm curious to see if there's a correlation.
I can contribute to the research actually. Admittedly I did see Seasame street and other such media, but I was also raised in this religion with exposure to these teachings and media. So I guess the combination of the two results in.mm well whatever I count as 😅
I wouldn't want a study on kids raised purely in religious content vs those that weren't, because that would give a bad impression on the concept of religious cartoons. All of them, except veggietales, are extremely bad, but they don't have to be. Doing a study on that might make it look like the lack of quality is a lack of potential quality.
@hio Man you don't not study something bc it may imply oe of the subjects is "bad" or "wrong". Science is about learning more to improve and understand life
I literally googled Jehovah’s Witness child content. I was expecting to find a website with Caleb and Sophia videos and books and things. Instead I was greeted with articles by news stations about different JW leaders being accused of SAing children in the congregation. I’m definitely not surprised one bit, but it just makes me sick and I want to find a way to help these children.
I asked Telltale about it. One good way is donating to good charities. He recommended the Trevor Project, since LGBTQ Witness Kids are at very high risk.
It scares me the fact that "oh just pray for jesus (or someone else) and he'll help you through bullying!!" isn't a "normal" thing. I used to (forcedly) be christian and well, I grew in a strict religious household too (as the other people named mumu said), and i'd be always forced to believe in jesus, because if I didn't, I would be a dead weight for my family. I never liked religion but I respect those who do, I just don't like religion when people push you to do what they want instead if you want it.
I have two co-workers who are JHs but they are the progressive version. My one coworker went to college and also got a beautician license to do hair and loves to talk to us. Most JHs are expected to be polite, but that's it. My other coworker doesn't care that I'm Bi and still tries to hang outside of work which is cool and she celebrated with us when Sephora closed in our store. She didn't toast, but she still went to celebrate the time we all shared at Sephora (we work in JCPenney). She also loves magic stuff like Harry Potter and she absolutely loves vines. Its nice seeing people who follow their religion but are still good people.
I’m very lucky that I knew death wasn’t the same as sleeping at 4, an old lady at my grandma’s funeral said “don’t worry, she’s just sleeping!” And I just smiled and nodded but was thinking “okay lady, if that helps you feel better I won’t break it to you” lol. There was other religious trauma around sleep though, I was TERRIFIED thanks to that prayer with the line “if I should die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take”. And also the waking up to an empty house and panicking because the rapture had happened and I got Left Behind (when really I had just slept in and dad was at work or mom was in the yard, etc). So while I knew sleeping wasn’t death, there was a lot of loss and death portrayed as going to happen DURING sleeping.
With the first one: I agree you can be friends with older people. My late nana (great grandmother) was my closest relative, I have been friends with people who could be my grandparents, however, having only older friends puts you in a certain power imbalance. It’s not healthy having ONLY older friends.
Agreed, there has to be variety. Also RIP to Nana. I wish Grandparents could come back as Force Ghosts when you need guidance, like in Empire Strikes Back or Moana.
Something Christians generally have failed to grapple with is the nature of physical and mental disability, illness, and divergence. There are a lot of people in the world who, if you "cure" or "heal" them in the way most people imagine or assume, will cease to be *themselves.* (This was triggered by Sister Elsa being age-regressed back to her twenties or thirties based on some implicit assumption that this is a person's "prime" and everyone would choose to be that age if they could.)
knowing that telling children "they went to sleep" and "they're in a better place" explains why I feel like I'm screwed up as an adult. I have constant looming anxiety now about dying in my sleep and I'm emotionally stunted when it comes to processing grief. I grew up Pentecostal Christian and every day I'm learning more and more that my experience was traumatic and damaging.
This reminds me of the time my grandfather has died, the one person I was probably the closest with, due to my parents always working long hours and as a 13 year old my grandmother - who is and was a witness - has seen an opportunity in it to "help" me with that grief by introducing me to her "friends" and pushing me to start to study this stuff. Lucky for me, even as a 13 year old - with a worldly upbringing - seen that this stuff is just weird and bounced but...yeah...these actions of my grandmother, it's a fun (/s) one to think about for sure to this day...
I'm not, nor was I ever, a JW, but I find learning about the religion or, from what I understand cult, as well as other cultic groups something of a fascination. So I've seen Caleb and Sophia analyses before and have watched all of them this far on this channel. I have a couple of suggestions I'd like to see analyzed here. Hopefully it's okay to make these suggestions considering I'm not an ex-JW (or a current one lol). I don't really know the titles or episode numbers so I'll just give some descriptions. There's one, I think it's an earlier episode, Mom and Caleb are at the store and Mom says she's not buying any candy, and Caleb contemplates stealing some. Don't steal is of course a good lesson, but I'd love to see the reason why you shouldn't steal according to Jehovah's Witnesses get the Commander Fives treatment. There's another episode where Caleb is inside and Mom asks him why he's not outside playing. He says Dad was punishing him and Mom likened it to when a tree needed supports to grow properly. And there's another episode where they were going to go, I believe to the park, after a meeting. But somebody needed a ride home so that plan got kibashed. The kids were disappointed about not going to the park and Mom's like 'hey, you know what? You can make a sacrifice like Jesus did!'. Just some suggestions on things that would be interesting to see analyzed.
Suggestions are always welcome Lauren. I've got a screen shot of the list, I'll see which ones are popular and trick Fives into watching some this week :)
So I've had this one idea and I have no idea how to pull it off but it seemed to good not to mention so here it goes... What we need is Caleb and Sofia counter-series. I'm thinking we make it look as close as possible to the animation style of Caleb and Sofia. We presumably couldn't get the same voice actors but we'd need people who can sound as close as possible. Basically try to make it look close enough that, seen out of context, it could easily be mistaken for an episode of the regular Caleb and Sofia. The catch is it's actually seen from the perspective of other characters and showing the harm done by Jehovah's Witnesses teachings. This could even include retelling existing episodes from other perspectives. Some ideas: -The aftermath of the Sparlock incident where Caleb's friend learns his toy was thrown out, and has to deal with Caleb trying to explain why it's wrong to play with a wizard action figure. -An episode centered on Carrie, who is being relentlessly harassed by Sofia's attempts to explain why she shouldn't have two mothers. -The hospital episode from the point of view of a doctor treating Sister Elsa, during which we learn she could have survived if she'd been given a life-saving blood transfusion. We follow the doctor's struggles to deal with being actively blocked from saving their patient and watching the family grieve a preventable loss. -The "Who Should be My Friend" episode from the perspective of Sofia's classmates, following their futile efforts to make Sofia feel included, which are doomed because of her religion's teachings. Anyone know where we can get an animation team to make this happen?
Not on the cheap, not like Bethel no. There are a ton of talented ExJW artists out there, I'm sure if there was a big enough platform to advertise, it could get done.
16:42 I am a born and raised Baptist/Nondenominational (we moved around a lot when I was a kid), and I had several close family members and friends pass away before I was thirteen. Actually, I was barely 13 when my orchestra teacher died, literally 13 years and 6 days, and to say I was devastated is a gross understatement. But as a kid who went to Church regularly and believed that we all go to Heaven after we die, it was a small comfort to know that my passed loved ones weren’t suffering any more. My teacher was battling cancer for the second time, my great granddad was almost 98, my Nanny was about that same age when she passed, etc. It still hurt and I was sad that I wouldn’t get to see them on Earth anymore, but… idk at the end of the day I knew they weren’t in pain anymore and that was comforting. So, *on the surface, because Sofia asked specifically what Jehovah could do for Elsa* her parents explaining to her that “Oh Sister Elsa will be in paradise because of what Jesus did etc. etc.” Isn’t bad. You would want your kid (I would hope) to know that even though their loved one is gone, they’re in a better place. Now, how the parents deal with Sofia’s continued grieving has yet to be seen. If they continue to push the “oh you shouldn’t be sad bc Elsa is in a better place”, then that’s messed up. Sister Elsa being in a better place should be a comfort, not an excuse as to why Sofia is sad. Does that make sense? Like, “Sofia I know you’re sad, and I know this hurts. It’s okay to be sad because you lost someone near and dear to you, and I will be here to help you and talk with you about anything.” This will validate Sofia’s feelings and let her know that it’s okay to grieve the passing of a loved one, and then as Sofia starts to come to terms and accept that Elsa has passed, she will be more comforted by the idea that Elsa is in Paradise and not in pain anymore. Does that make sense? I hope my word vomit makes sense 😅 Love you all and I hope y’all are doing well!
I have worked in ECE for years at this point and I highly highly highly recommend NOT telling kids "they went to a better place". I've seen this train of thought lead a child to suicidal idealization, especially when the child has enduring Adverse Childhood Experiences.
Oh holy hell, I hadn't even considered that. TBH the thought had crossed my mind as a kid, but I never really had the motivation or the means to "speed up going to paradise" but I could certainly see this affecting JWs and other religious minded people, especially children.
When forced to be some type of Christian as a child, there was a song the children all had to sing about how one day, we’d all be able to go to heaven. Hurray! One day you get to die, kids! One line was where we’d all sing, loud as we could, “I want to go there!!” as cheerfully as possible too. I remember several times thinking about getting there early, as I was raised to know it was so much better than being alive. I was still no more than nine for all that.
It’s kids like when adults tell you that high school is the best years of your life. Never tell kids that. High schools tough enough as it is and even if they had a great time, it really doesn’t give them much of an incentive to keep on living
This one was a great one Magog. Given the children that we deal with that have been removed from their parents due to abuse, the loss of their family is awful, even given the circumstance as to why, and the children don't know how to process it. There's a lot to be gathered from this on why they shut down on themselves. It definitely shined a light on how deeply troubling JW's behave and how their behaviors are linked to a general blanket of child abuse, neglect, and mistreatment. It also expanded on why, alot of times, the children grow up to adulthood and perpetuate the cycle... it's disheartening..
Thank you Master Magog she Passed away from Cancer during the first October the Colvid Pandemic so was only able to say goodbye @ her Celebration of of her life where everyone was there including her family & her Grand Children & other friends were there it was very beautiful master Magog. ♥️😭😇♥️
Grief is such a hard thing to talk about with kids, and they fail at every step. Leaving aside not meetin the kids where they are - this weird glorification of death could very well lead to suicidal ideation in people! If life is terrible and full of sin, and your classmates won't speak to you, and you have no church friends your own age, and everything you do is slathered in guilt... going to paradise early can seem pretty appealing. Growing up in a mixed catholic and baptist family, I saw A LOT of this kind of thinking, and I imagine it would only be worse with even stricter social isolaton.
When commander fives brings up how they don't address the child's feelings, that is such an important point. Ex mormon and they do that for EVERYTHING, "oh, you got sick? Lost an arm? Got SA'd? Well REJOICE BECAUSE JESUS LOVES YOU!" Absolutely does not address anything, and they think that you should no longer need assistance for whatever you went through. It's so stunting and horrible.
Good news is that the longtime Kingdom Hall in my area is no longer a Kingdom Hall, as of about a year or so ago, which tells me that there were too few local JWs to sustain it. Bad news is that it's now the meeting place for a *different* (but probably more benign) cult of a New Agey/Eastern persuasion.
As a person who was a part of jehovah's witnesses. There was one thing that have been bothering me but it dawned on me after years of being away from it They care about their religion more than they do their kids
So good as always ❤ fives taught me a lot of things to keep in mind for my niece. I want to help give her things I know my family can’t the most major of which is genuine emotional support
40 years ago I was a little girl in Sophia’s place, i was not able to process my grandmother’s death until I was an adult and out of the witnesses. For my other grandmother I kicked at jw conventions and we insisted that I (a woman!) stood up at her funeral and gave a eulogy- wearing a trouser suit. Strangely the Elder conducting the service did not let me have the microphone or even speak to me!
On the Kingdom Hall running video, I remember my parents telling me to not run and stuff because of the potential running over of elderly people, and I really didn’t run because I didn’t care about doing it very much. Though one time I became quite frustrated because an elderly person actually walked against me and caused me to fall (I was like four???I think) and my parents didn’t treat it as as big as a deal as they would’ve for me if I ran over an elderly person lmao. I was like: ‘You have to treat these situations as equal and punish the elderly person too like you would me!!!!’
Great video as always! Just to say, I think the flashback to Berlin was supposed to be in East Germany during the Cold War (notice the huge wall she cycles past) rather than Nazi Germany, in case that clears up any confusion.
@Darth Magog @Benjamin Davey And she did mention that she was in Berlin, so that would make sense if the wall depicted was the infamous Berlin Wall. The problem is that children won't have any idea about what that wall probably was, or the historical context around it. And parents below a certain age wouldn't have any memory of that either. Remember that the Wall fell in 1989, over thirty years ago. Older Millennials would be the youngest people alive with any memory of the Wall, or the larger Cold War era. They could have given such a powerful history lesson on the Cold War, and how JWs functioned within that context. The fact that the Borg didn't do so says a lot about the video's purpose. They say that they do a Bible education work. Maybe that statement wasn't as far from reality years ago, but they don't even attempt to really educate anyone in these Caleb and Sophia videos. Their main purpose is religious indoctrination, plain and simple.
I remember my wife and I telling our son that the kingdom hall was Jehovah's house. He looked around one day and told my wife why he can't see Jehovah if the KH was his house. Good question too.
Damn you guys are becoming like my fav people on UA-cam right now I'm so glad y'all are here to explain jw stuff because I never really had someone tell me in detail about all the odd things they teach
@@DarthMagog I would tell Sophia that it’s okay to grieve and that even though she won’t be able to see Elsa again in this life (though to be honest, there most likely isn’t another life), Elsa is no longer in pain and that the memories will live on.
I will say it was an interesting place to take the episode. Talking about how they handled things during the war. I like to hear stories of human ingenuity and camaraderie and people banding together. Fighting against a system that oppresses them, showing little acts of kindness in the face of horrible atrocities... Something nice about it.
Child psychologise this: I was about 11 and my cat needed to be put down. I was sad, but I had accepted that it had to happen because he was sick and in pain. I go to bed feeling pretty secure in the idea that it was the right thing to do. After I went to bed, dad took the cat to the vet to be put down (emergency visit). Dad... WOKE ME UP TWO HOURS LATER to tell me that "He went peacefully, no suffering at all.... well, goodnight." He turned out the light and left the room. I started BALLING! It is so messed up and so funny now (why couldn't he wait until the morning, or not say anything at all), I still don't know why he did that, and he maintains to this day that it didn't happen (mum knows it happened). XD
Thank you for acknowledging that there are ways to navigate difficult emotions in a healthier way while still remaining religious. No one solution is going to work for everyone, and I appreciate that you haven't fixated on religion as an always negative aspect of people's lives.
Oh of course. We generally find that things aren't usually mutually exclusive and you have to apply nuance to most situations. There are even (a very few) things i liked about being a JW myself
Darth...the force is strong with you! You do a GREAT job of handling an evil subject. The things they do to the minds of innocent children!!!! Those Caleb & Sophia videos are some of the most evil stuff they've done.....destroying children, one video at a time
Given the fact that Adam had no knowledge of good or evil until he ate from the Tree of Knowledge, he couldn't have known that it was wrong to disobey God. Given that He is supposed to be all seeing and all knowing, he would have known what was going to happen before he even put the tree there. So really it was God's fault, and then him deflecting the blame away from himself and then punishing someone else, like he usually seemed to do. So really Adam's bad reputation is undeserved. - Another great video Darth Magog, and Commander Five is always a welcome face.
Thank you Agent Watson! Yeah makes you wonder about what the plan was with even leaving the tree in the garden in the first place. Like, what's the point of making that plant?
Is it bad that ever since a few months ago I started watching your contact all the time and every time you come out the new video I’m excited because for some reason hearing how crazy Jehovah’s Witnesses it’s like my fresh air compared to everything else that’s going on right now
Really like the perspective I’ve gained from these videos and the insight it’s provided into my own experiences and ways they’ve affected me being born and raised in the org. Thank you so much for the work you’re both doing for us all.
Thank you for reaching out and supporting too. I honestly started the channel mostly as a therapeutic thing for myself, but it's amazing to hear that fellow ExJW kids (and other Spiritually Absued folks) are healing too 💙
I grew up in a strict catholic home and had all my feelings about death redirected. When I got older and stopped believing in God it sent me reeling, I was so anxious about death and had no skills to handle it.
Same here. When every one of your coping skills regarding death get undermined, it's terrifying. It's especially painful when you realize that you're not going to see anyone again that's already dead, and had used that to cope with grief previously.
As someone who grew up in more a more mainstream Christian culture, the Lazarus story would not have done me a single bit of good when my grandma passed. I mean, Lazarus was resurrected in the flesh on this planet, it's not even close to the same thing! Thank god my mom (who was obviously going through it too) had the sense to comfort us without platitudes. Take time to remember the person you've lost. Take time to grieve, to just be . Whether there is an afterlife or not, it's still a loss! Anyway, for anyone who is feeling sad for literally any reason today, it's okay. You'll be happy again eventually, and you're not "bad" or "wrong" for not being happy right now.
I remember when I lost of father at 6 years old. I remember crying and one of my distance family members look at me, a crying 6 year old that barley understand death that "God needed him more". A 6 year old. I was told god needed my father more, then me, a 6 YEAR OLD CHILD!
@DarthMagog I was lucky enough not to be raised around that on a normal basis. Religion by itself isn't bad. But, I feel as if someone going through a loss shouldn't be told "God needed them more" or "It's all in God's plan." I remember feeling guilty that God didn't think I needed my dad anymore. Didn't help his death was held over my head.
@@DarthMagog oh I assumed so. The animation models bother the hell out of me. It feels like someone (or a small team) who had/have a lot of passion for 3d art who decided to use their gift to Jahova. They probably do it for free too..
@@OzMediaOfficial very small stipend at Bethel there Oz. I think like 113 dollars a month. Might be up to 200 now, but yeah they're basically slaves. And are aware of the fact that they are, in fact, basically slaves.
Encouraging kids to befriend adults along with the 2 witness rule could be a toxic combo I'm thinking... all you need is one person to ruin an entire temple halls group of kids if you will. That's a dangerous slippery slope.
All throughout year 2 to year 6 I had a friend who was a JW, At the time I had no idea it was a cult, all I knew was that she was very quiet and no one had met her parents and she wasn't allowed to celebrate birthdays or Christmas. I thought it was awful and felt bad for her. I thought it was boring and stupid that she wasn't allowed to celebrate. I once openly told her that her religion was about as interesting as a bag of wet sand - looking back, it's a miracle that she barely acknowledged it at all and we were still friends. Then I found out JWs were a cult - about a year after I lost contact with her. I was in denial for a while because I didn't want to accept that a friend had been trapped in a cult this whole time and I didn't know. But I've accepted it now. I can't find her online or on social media or anything, and I have no way of knowing what happened to her after year 6. Olivia Mason, if you're reading this, it's Rose from school. Please tell me if you're okay.
Makes me think about how Jesus wept when his friend Lazarus died. Jesus knew he would resurrect Lazarus and he knew about eternity, but he still cried because he's human. It's normal to miss someone when they die, there's still a separation happening. Mourning is completely normal, and I think those kids should be allowed to grieve and know that.
I’m not a fan of religious funerals. Many of them feel like they’re holding the memory of your loved one hostage. “Your friend is gone now… and if you ever want to see them again, you’ll complete this list of demands.” Also, the death of a loved one is a sensitive time. It’s not the time to rush into some long term commitment with a deity or demanding structure of any kind.
found your channel on a whim and even though i'm not a jehovah's witness, ex jehovah's witness, or a star wars fan (got nothing against it i'm just not a sci-fy guy lol), i find a lot of comfort in it. i was raised southern baptist and i'm still currently surrounded by it and it's honestly eerie to me how similar these ideologies are to it, even though southern baptists always paint jw as the cult that it is (for weird reasons, mostly cause they don't believe in hell iirc and nothing else). i've had very severe anxiety with death because i've been constantly surrounded by death and these ideas that if you don't act a certain way, you could go to hell and suffer forever at any moment. it's led me to be nearly dysfunctional as an adult, and it doesn't help that i have autism that's gone undiagnosed for a very long time. luckily i have a therapist who's really supportive and helping me learn to cope and communicate properly and friends/loved ones who've been helping me work through everything. being a closeted gay trans man is definitely a struggle considering i'm still stuck in the religion, but i'm finding ways to work through it so i can hopefully escape from the toxic environment when my mental health is in a place where i can move in by myself. seeing that i'm not alone in my struggles is always a comforting thing to see, even if we aren't necessarily in the same exact boat. not only that but its also incredibly validating to have a professional call out all of these toxic practices from abrahamic religions that have caused me so much grief growing up. also even though i know next to nothing about star wars, i adore your channel theme. it's really sweet to me and definitely helps make the uncomfortable trauma topics a bit easier to talk about. anyways, sorry for the long rant. really love your stuff and i'm definitely sticking around for more,, :)
Never a rant and it's always an honor to share in someone's experience. Also I'm inspired that you're putting in the work to do your healing, including therapy 💙
I've always seen a refusal to be honest about death and using euphemisms as a huge red flag ever since I was a teen and one of my old favorite horses was gone from the stable where I'd been going for riding lessons, and when I asked her owner he just deflected and said she'd been moved to a pasture further away, and only told the truth (that she had to be put down due to illness and old age) when I pressed him. Later on the very same man's daughter came out and revealed he was a monster whom'd been beating his wife and kids behind the scenes, and I've been associating that insistence on false sugarcoating with abusers ever since.
That quote Sophia made about friends can be any age as long as they love Jehovah rubs me the wrong way. There can be a lot of problems with that with the worst being grooming. I literally set my phone down and buried my face in my hands hearing that phrase. The other thing that bothered me was instead of saying “to those in need” she said “to our brothers and sisters” during the war. This is basically saying that they don’t care about the other people who need help unless they’re fellow JW members. Its a damaging underlying message that the other people outside the religion don’t matter unless the pioneering brings them in. Oh boy, that’s hospital video. It really bugged me because the last thing needed while someone close is in the hospital is religion. There’s literally no reason to bring up religion in a time like that. It’s sickening and I’m so glad I didn’t have to deal with that while my third cousin was in the hospital and died. And talking to kids about religion during a tough time is even worse because they’re already struggling to understand the concept of death and loss. The last one, I had to pause for a minute after the dad came with the Bible. To parents in a religion: DO NOT DO THIS!!! This infuriated me because the video is basically giving off the message: if you feel grief, just read about some imaginary person who performed miracles. We done care. GAAAAH! Not only that, but I feel like it’s also teaching children in the organization to do the same thing when they grow up and have children. I can just smell the generational trauma that can come from this because they are not properly taught how to deal with death and loss. You can’t just force the same grieving process onto everyone. People process death differently and this video doesn’t even tell you that. This cult needs to be taken down and not seen as a religion because it’s anything but that! Edit: edit here, I just made the realization after I made the comment about the organization teaching children to, as you two said, ‘throw themselves into the religion’. Sofia does the same thing when a classmate’s relative died!!! This proves that they’re teaching children what to do when dealing with death. It’s an underlying message, but it’s dangerous nonetheless.
Aww man wish I would watch this when it's fresh and hot outta the oven so to speak, but I gotta work today! I'll watch it later tho, late to the party as always! XD
the dad being expected to take a more involved role in parenting seems like parenting would be really one sided and unhealthy for couples considering raising children is stressful...
I think you should have Fives analyze the characters in ‘The Owl House,’ it’s a Disney show with religious themes. Quite a few of the characters in the show explore religious trauma. It’d be interesting to hear your guys thoughts on it.
My parents didn’t tell me that my dog died until 2 days later. I guess they wanted to wait until the weekend so my grief wouldn’t get in the way of school, but I felt so bad because I didn’t notice he was gone. I wasn’t there when they put him down and I never got to say goodbye. I think that last part is what messed me up so much
I always feel bad that Sophia is never allowed to make friends with kids her age because they’re not Jehovah’s Witnesses. I understand it’s ok to be friends with older people but she can’t go to birthday parties and sleepovers with other children and create a healthy social circle
When I was a teen I read a book about a teenage girl in 90s Germany (now the "excluded") and how her grieving father after remarrying (he was a widower) converted whole family (meaning him and the daughter, Hannah) into JW, because his second wife was one. Looking back his end was comical. He could have lived longer. But due to JWs anti-body modifications theories (including blood transfusion) he died, way too young. Speaking of marriage, what's the deal with divorced/widowed people?
It really is just a footnote in the sunday service, right between the reading of the watch tower and the overseer's talk. One of the brothers my younger brother studied with committed the big oomph after he was outed for being on a date with a man. his father *was* the overseer. He'd just had him in with the elders to give him the come to Jehovah talk that comes before being cast out. They didn't even give him more than a minute of consideration. Didn't acknowledge that he was leaving a twin behind. Just said "he has passed into the sleep that comes between this world and the next, and we look forward to seeing him whole and healed of his afflictions in the new world", like being scared, gay, and depressed was a sickness. They never even spoke about him again, like he was already disfellowshipped. My older brother still pretends he never existed, decades later. It's horrifying. But that's all you are to the witnesses. A brief moment of motivation to reach The New World. If you're 'afflicted' by any of their apostate standards... you're just a passing thought that never comes up again.
Oh no, I hate those sleep-related euphemisms around death (and I am an adult). In German, when a pet has to be put down/euthanised, the expression is “einschläfern” - which isn't far from “einschlafen” (to fall asleep)! So it's even worse when a child hears what happend to the old family dog. I would not use such expressions that can easily be misunderstood - children always take things literally, so the expression “X is fast asleep now” can cause problems, even if well-intended. I would just use neutral, basic language around children: “X died.” Even if the grief is just so strong. If you suffer the loss of a person near and dear to you, while being able to utter the phrase “X died” to convey the most bitter fact to a child, you have proven strength.
the one in the hospital and some of what commander fives was saying actually is why I kinda turned my back on religion as a whole (still interested In world religions and find them all fascinating but don't follow any set of beliefs) when my mom passed (i was 5 years old at the time) i was supposed to accept some deity who is supposed to be inhearnetly good would take a young childs mother from them and it was some sort of grand plan that they had. by the time I was 9 I had decided that I will not sacrifice time or energy to a deity that would do such things. im now more or less practice Religious syncretism taking bits and pieces from various regions to create my own belief system.
Hey that works well. I always found it a little bizarre that God's master plan involved the seemingly random sparing of some lives and destruction of others, instead of just having a quick 1 v 1 with Satan or whatever other special evil forces were out there. Makes you think.
They did Elsa dirty. They made her interesting, then they used her as a plot device. Grief and loss, there no catch all answer how to go through it. Each person is different and each loss is different. I have shut down completely (I know, not the healthiest, but I was a child dealing with the death of the person I was closest to) and I have cried two days straight (I swear, if I didn't have to pull myself together I would have cried longer). I've lost people I just knew. I still expect to see them and hear about how they are during. The deeper losses still hurt. But it's okay, as long as they are dealt with in a healthy way that doesn't hurt myself or others. There is no time limits. No right ways. There no real moving on, just living on with your memories with them.
I don’t know much about JW expectations of Armageddon, but I was under the impression they believe there will be a period of them being persecuted, driven, underground, et cetera et cetera. Maybe it’s the writer in me that I would’ve thought that sister Elsa I would’ve been an amazing vector for stories about passive resistance, dealing with the persecution of the world, the government against the watchtower and so on? By literally exploring her actual historical context.
I actually had the pleasure of witnessing a JW funeral first hand when my second cousin once removed passed. It was bizarre to hear about the revival as an outsider. The whole thing was just about (like Magog said) how you shouldn't be sad because he will just come back to life, and that went on for the whole thing, and maybe that was some comfort for some I cannot see how that is a comfort for his mother, who lost her only child early, or my father (who also isn't in the church and never will be) who lost his best friend, or even his adopted children and relatively new wife. The whole thing just makes me sad because the church is just saying that you shouldn't be sad because he's not really dead, and for the most part stunts the grief you should be experiencing by the lost of family and friend. Thank god my dad was never brought into that religion and by extension me.
There’s also the Christian funerals where if you’re unlucky enough to get a priest, you have to deal with a guy that probably doesn’t even know you talk to your family about how you can still see them again if you just “believe” basically holding your dead loved ones for ransom as an attempt to convert grieving friends and family. Definitely NOT having a priest at my funeral
I would love an entire lore video about Darth Magog and Clone Commander 5's place in Star Wars Lore. I want the backstory. I thought the idea was that usually the Empire are a metaphor for Facism, but in this case it must be a play on that? The JW would see him as "evil" so he's riffing on that in the most fun way possible? Making this a bit more palatable for the audience? Either way, I love these videos, and their both very funny while also teaching me. I'm taking Early Childhood Education and Early Childhood Development, and they are terribly boring but this makes them a little less so by giving me contextual applications of the information. :D
Im not religious but i have a belief where how you live your life can affect the outcome of your soul's final form, and you aren't restricted by rules someone else just as flawed as you made up I don't take these beliefs too seriously, its just something that gives me comfort when i think about what could happen when i die, that a part of me and who i was as a person could become something new even after im gone from this world Idk, the whole hospital episode made me think about it
Hey nothing wrong with the beliefs that bring you personal comfort. Unlike this organization, you're just sharing what helps you and not forcing those beliefs and expectations on a small, grieving, child. So that's very helpful
@@DarthMagog thanks, im not sure where to begin when i think about having to comfort my future children when they inevitably have to grieve the loss of someone Maybe i'll feel out what upsets them the most and try to lessen that burden so they can grieve without those scary thoughts consuming them Also, never make a child go up to an open casket! Ask first, and also let them know whats going on I remember as a teen going to a funeral and seeing the relative in an open casket: it was strange, it looked like she was sleeping, but her chest wasnt moving like someone breathing, and i found that disconnect almost disturbing
I noticed Elsa didn't seem to have any family members at the hospital. Probably none of them were JW and well....Elsa shunned them. The whole "associating with the world" I guess. Again, I've noticed how irritated their parents seem when Caleb and Sophia ask questions.
Stumbling across Caleb and Sophia videos and people breaking down what was wrong with the religion has peeled back another layer of confused identity with my upbringing in the Service and how startled my parents were when I just turned to them one night and said "This religion is stupid."
@@DarthMagog 20+ years later, I still struggle with holidays. Didnt realize how much damage was done in my formative years until I got married and joined a new family and struggle hardcore with Christmas.
I just like imagining Darth Magog and Clone Commander 5 going out to hunt Jedi.
Darth Magog: Well Clone Commander 5, looks like it's your turn to teach them a lesson.
Clone Commander 5: Yeah! Right out of Kamino University!
Jedi: Hold on, you went to college?
Clone Commander 5: Yup.
Jedi: What the hell could someone like you possibly major in?
Clone Commander 5: Child Psychology.
Jedi: Wow, that sounds really interesting.
Clone Commander 5: WITH A MINOR IN PAIN!!!
*Clone Commander 5 starts blasting the Jedi*
Lol we sunk their battleship, and their Two Witness Rule.
Sounds like the pilot to a great TV series. I'd watch it.
Honestly, I'd love to see them in action; seeing the incredible quality of these analyses, I can only begin to imagine their impeccable rebel-fighting skills.
@@DarthMagog In that situation the two of you witnessed a Jedi shuffle off their mortal coil 🤣😅
I understood that reference!
Caleb and Sophia feels like if someone watched an episode of Moral Orel and went “Let's do that, but this time it isn’t ironic”
Lol that's pretty succinct
Yeah, I agree.
So it came full circle. Considering Morel Orel is based on a show called, 'Davey and Goliath' which I've never actually seen, but am told is just un-ironic Morel Orel.
The pictures of the show sure look like that.
God i need for that show to come back.
Fr
@@TheFront. Same
Grieving for someone you love surrounded by people that healthy support you emotionally as a child is hard. But Grieving for someone that was disfellowshiped as a Jehovah's witness, or Grieving for someone that never was Jehovah's witness (like a class mate for example) while being surrounded by Jehovah's witness adults can, and is most times emotionally scarring.
Oh that sounds like a much worse process 😳
My mom isn't dead, but I remember when I was like 5 and my father would tell me that in paradise we aren't allowed to mourn those who are left behind. They will be just dust under our feet. I was horrified to think that I would walk over my mom and wouldn't even no it. JW beliefs in death and mourning are not in anyway healthy.
And fortunately I can't even imagine what you have been going through. I'm so sorry.
@@Siiseliify Yeah the way my relatives would explain it to their kids was basically, "If you don't love Jehovah then Jehovah will make us forget you ever even existed, we wouldn't be sad bc we wouldn't even remember you", it's actually super messed and gives you extra deep anxieties about death...
@@kymo6343 I think I decided anyway that paradise sounds like a stupid place and I don't want to go there
For me it's weird how Caleb and Sophia's first reactions to these situations are so relatable. It's kind of scary like the animators are putting little glimpses of "save us" messages or something in these videos.
Like when when Caleb showed his warriorwizard to his mom and that sigh, when he realizes that he has disappointed his mom. First time I saw that I nodded and said to myself "same, dude." Then I laughed and started crying. I just remembered that frustration when I couldn't talk about my interests with my father and stepmother with being punished.
My therapist actually thinks that my autism and love for Harry Potter and Disney saved me from JW, because my passion for them for more powerful than fear of Jehovah. And my father joined after divorce, so I had to go to the meetings just every other Sunday.
Oh and the worst part is, it's consistent across the board. They even have a dating movie that shows the teenage protagonist being nervous to even talk to her parents, and they immediately browbeat her over it.
That said, I'm glad your passions burned brighter than Jehovah. He doesn't deserve someone as good as you!
@@DarthMagog we actually jokingly thank Satan for fantasy and scifi with my siblings, because of that video. It's our inside joke nowadays.
I was fine and I was fine and I was fine and then the tears came and didn’t stop. Stupid Jehovah.
(Context: I have a genetic disorder that’s slowly killing me since birth and the rate of „slowly killing“ is now rapidly accelerating with an expected death by age 40.)
@@Siiseliify I've joked with a few friends saying Satan sounds like a chill guy in the past then I saw Lucifer. Seemed like a sign to me lol
@@LordTails cool guy who gives cool fiction and let's people buy second hand vs inconsistent guy who's feelings are the most important thing in the World and therefore let's my father think that all the bad things he did, are forgiven
My catholic cousin was told his grandpa “ was in a better place”. He told me years later he hated grandpa because he went to a place without him or us, and how dare he “escape the terror of our family, cause we’re shit. Basically.” Some phrases can really mess a person up even if it’s “ good intentions “.
wow, that's just... sad :(
Oh that's a terrible affect. I do hope your cousin has healed.
@@DarthMagog oh definitely, he’s a well adjusted atheist now
@@girlofthealpines why not just tell the child the truth at the level of understanding they’re at? Lying to a child about life and reality will only cause problems later, especially about them trusting you as a parent when they are older. Death itself is not scary, only the threat religions give of punishment after you die (which there’s no evidence of).
Sophia: Sister Elsa's dying, dad! Can Jehovah save her?
Dad: Nah, girl, just 🎵Let it go🎵
I'm joining Sister Elsa cuz I'm dead 💀💀💀
You didn't-- 💀
Sofia leaving the JWs someday: It's funny how some distance makes everything seem small, and the fears that once controlled me, can't get to me at all~ It's time to see what I can do, to test the limits and break through~ No right, no wrong, no rules for me! I'm FREEEEEEE~!
@@kymo6343 "Let it go, let it go, can't hold it back anymore! Let it go, let it go, turn away and slam the door!"
A rival studio should do follow-up animations to show what would really happen as a result of their upbringing (disillusionment with the reli- I mean, cult, the resulting trauma, etc), but also show ways that they'd be able to successfully navigate through the rest of their life in spite of it all.
I think JW Chronicles does one in their spare time. I'd love to be able to fund a full feature parody of the show.
I guess we actually SHOULD create a competing animation series. Very similar, just different enough to not get caught by copyright and intellectual property laws. It would catch the attention of kids (and some adults, that would show it to their kids) that would try it because it looks like the "original", then they would get a story that explains real life and gives good life advices, but in a way that won't be too obvious at first glance.
They do propaganda on kids, we should do counter-propaganda to save them.
As an autistic adult, I applaud Five for the work done to understand childhood grief. Death is traumatizing to children, and when you’re autistic and are slowing down mental age-wise while you grow older, grief can affect you like you’re a child.
My mom passed when I was 15, and I mark that as the day I severely slowed down aging mentally, all due to the fact I heard the doctor who was taking care of her whisper “I think she’s dead.” to the nurse while he was preparing to give her the next dose of euthanasia. When it was time for her final dose, I had to leave the room because I knew I’d try to stop it. I didn’t want her to go. Imagine how a child would feel if they heard what that doctor said, how they’d react when it was time for the last dose.
I had no idea how to process this, and some days I still have no idea, despite it almost being 6 years. My grief was improperly managed, and I feel like if it hadn’t been handled in such a poor way, I’d have a better understanding and processing capability of grief. I can only imagine the trauma that improperly managed grief could inflict on a child, let alone a JW child.
You both did amazing like always. Keep fighting the good fight against JWs.
You poor baby 🥺💖
We're here for the fight and for you!
The first sister Elsa story is a three word edit away from just being plain wholesome.
If it wasn't for that last bit about the Jehovah being the requirement for friendship, it's actually a pretty good video. Fighting for free speech makes Elsa pretty badass, even if it is just the right to practice a goofy religion (which is a human right of course)
I'm a Christian and I've lost both my parents, my dad died when I was 15 or so at hospital in Louisville KY during the winter and I walked home in the snow. Grief and rage filled me as I hated everyone and thing and I lost my faith that walk. It's back but I'm saying this because death to a kid or teen is very similar and the closer the person the great the emotion. Yes saying to pray is good to help I agree but a to a child that doesn't help the pain at all. They need love and someone there to get down to their level and show them their not alone.... I didn't have that, I had the snow and downtown Louisville as I walked to our apartment. This is evil and cold, why don't they just comfort them, yeah you can talk about God and the comfort of passed individual but not like don't leave them to their own sorrow WTF!?
It's pretty painful doctor. The inability to keep one's self in the equation is where the floodgates open really.
@Dr Zaius: FWIW, feeling that anger isn’t just for teens. I was upset when my mom died almost seven years ago. It took a while to sort it all out, even with comfort and help. I didn’t rage at God, but I definitely raged a bit.
My mom was having a hard time at one point in her life (before I was born) and all her Christian friends kept telling her to "pray about it" when she tried to confide in them. She finally talked to my grandmother about it who held her and told her, "praying is good but, sometimes you just need someone with skin on."
As someone who was homeschooled but not religiously I really appreciate you guys talking about childhood isolation. Luckily we had group homeschooling sessions once a week but still, it was hard not having so many friends my own age
It was best I was homeschooled due to disabilities but it was still hard, and seeing other people talking about it is very therapeutic for me ^^ thank you! Love your channel
Awww anytime! It's an important issue to shed light on and solve!
Thanks for pointing out how even when it is a good or the best option, that homeschooling has serious drawbacks. Everyone I meet wants to paint it in black and white, including me, who was homeschooled for both good and bad reasons, and I think it's important to note the nuances.
@@drcloudy yes absolutely !! it's incredibly nuanced and depends on the kid
also I've heard a lot of people say that homeschooling is only for religious kids which is odd to me when most homeschoolers I met had severe food allergies to very common things (can't be in the same room as dairy or something like that)
@SkippieFritz yeah I always hear "people only homeschool who want to abuse their kids" and that kind of statement just shuts down the conversation. It's so much more complex than that. Like yes that was 80 percent the case for me but that statement is such a gross oversimplifcation of it.
@@skippiefritz The narrative isn't helped by parents who get angry at their school board and pull kids out. Last few years a few families pulled kids out because of masking requirements in our local board. It's sad, and it just makes you sad for the kids.
As an ex-Evangelical, these videos ring a lot of bells for my own childhood. I'm starting to understand where my toxic shame and pathological guilt came from.
You're not alone fellow Dark Lord.
Man I remember when my Grandma, a Jehovah's witness, tried to explain to me that death was just sleeping. I was 6 years old and ended up crying for hours. Who thought that was a good idea?!?!?
Definitely not those who fully understand the damage it can cause by this. Telling your child that they're sleeping or using other forms of euphemism when a loved one dies is not very helpful, even with good intentions. 😬😬😬
Yeah the Watchtower is made up entirely of plumbers and carpenters. Brilliant if you need a building put together quickly. Not so good for professional grief counseling. They're just not an organization equipped for that.
as a christian and someone who grew up in a strict religious household, a lot of jehovah's witnesses are very similar to close family friends of mine. Straight down to indoctrinating others into the religion, ive got a lot of suppressed religious trauma and i remember being picked up early from school bc halloween was happening in the school (as in kids dressed up, and went door to door in the school getting candy) bc halloween was of the devil to them... i remember wanting to cry bc i never got to experience halloween, it only added fuel for others to bully me as well.
this kinda stuff is no longer just limited to JWs, although from what ive seen its definitely not as bad as being a JW straight up. idk what id do if i were a JW. i feel so bad for them lol
*EDIT:* holy freaking smokes, just realized i called my family friends by "sister" and "brother". we're pentecostal, which follows closely to the word of god. up until abt less than a century ago, we couldnt cut our hair nor wear anything but skirts apparently!
I was raised in a christian family and still am in fact christian, and I don't think I ever had such problems.
About the halloween thing, halloween always was a party which hardly anybody celebrated. Additionally the day after is all saints day and free work day (an occasion where you light candles on graves and pray for people who already died, except not because there are two separate occasions which got melted together since the other one is not a work free day)
My family never took anything some people considered "devilish" (like pokemon or harry potter) as that, especially since these things came out of priests which only had audiacity, and higher placed priests would usually deny such statements (I still never read any HP book. Not because it was evil but because I didn't cared enough and didn't want to)
Additionally most priests or relligion people I've met were rather nice and understanding people, who would usually either agree or tolerate my opinions on some more... let's say controvelsial ideas. I haven't met any that would say that something is bad because it's devilish because [some convoluted and nonsensical argument], so my experience with priests was mostly possitive (sure, there was an old grumpy man once in a while, but that was rare for me.
So yea, I myself did not ever had a problem with being banned from going to certain events or having friends because "religion".
If this has any importance I may add that I live in eastern Poland. I know that location can actually have a lot of importance on how "people of faith" treat themselves and each other around the world and in different regions.
Weird. I'm Baptist and my family was never like that, well a wee tiny bet I wasn't allowed to have like symbols like pentagrams or dress up as a demon or devil but that's loose. Like if it was a fictional demon like Freddy or pinhead my mom felt haveing and getting scared was perfectly fine.
She used argue with some Baptist fundamentalist about it. Liquor was fine as long as you don't lose control ect, I was raised to see God as loving and understanding not this hateful being JV have. To me God gets angry sure but doesn't ask alot of us. Love him and love Christ, love your brothers and sisters and warn them of their stupidity and if they reject you and God well that's on them. They doesn't mean you reject them for God didn't reject you when you were at your lowest. He was there even if you didn't know it and that's we should be, ready to extend that hand when they need even if they never knew you was there.
My childhood right there ://
My family was super strict Fundamental Baptist. It was a lot like being JW from what I can tell. I was never allowed to wear pants or sleeveless shirts, no shorts for my brothers, no swimsuits, no Halloween, and there were a couple of discussions on whether we should even celebrate Christmas until my dad found a program showing that it wasn't REALLY pagan. Definitely no Santa Claus. I used to cry myself to sleep begging God to save my younger siblings because I had horrible images of them being thrown into Hell while I couldn't do anything. Everything in our lives revolved around the church; we even had 4+ services a week for a while. Plus being homeschooled. And never went to the doctor unless a bone was broken... Yeah.
I wonder if the roots of Pentecostals and Baptists are the same too. I need to research this, I had no idea how widespread these ideologies were.
I always had a fear, still do to a degree, about going to sleep at night when I was a kid. Till this day, I never knew why. This video gave me a reason that might have been an issue. The term "falling asleep in death". I used to cry in bed and worry that I wasn't going to wake up. I'd mentally say my goodbyes to my family before falling asleep.
It is an awful analogy. When I was in my 16ish, I had some traumatic incidents that ended up leading me to thinking I could die while I slept, and it made me so terrified I couldn't fall asleep. I literally would wake up in a panic attack the moment I lost conscience. And I was already 16 and a really logical girl. Can't imagine what that would do to a child
That's painful enough. Having known someone who passed on in their sleep was another trigger on my end personally.
My lord and Commander Fives, I must share a chuckle regarding someone who told me when I was a youngling of two years old that my grandma was “sleeping.” My response was, “she’s not sleeping, she’s dead!” Oh, I am sure the tongues of church ladies wagged, but my mom thought my reaction was brilliant.
Super happy to hear that. Kids can handle things if you support them, I'm glad your Mum had your back on it too!
@@DarthMagog My parents chose not to shield me and my brother from human mortality, and for that, I am grateful.
Oh, I know all about grief! February 25 is going to mark three years since we lost my grandfather. Well, he was my step grandfather, but he was the one who was in my life and left the positive impact he did. Some time in 2018, he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's Disease. It started with him forgetting to take his meds, forgetting to brush his teeth, and forgetting basic stuff. But... it progressed. He was starting to forget about my grandmother. He'd threaten to call his parents to pick him up. His parents have been gone for years then. He was eventually put into a nursing home after Thanksgiving of 2019. As we were leaving, I said to me, "I don't remember your name, but I do remember that I love you." Then, we saw him on CHRISTMAS FUCKING DAY and he asked me who I was being dead serious. February of 2020, he got sick with something (I think pneumonia). I saw him one last time. It took me three tries to get the courage to see him. Once, I turned around half way to his room. Second time, I got to the doorway of his room, and chickened out again. Third time, I walked in, and he wasn't awake. Not dead, but not awake. I said to my grandmother, "He probably doesn't even remember my ass." And she said something I'll never forget, "No, he loves you." I held his hand one last time. I fucking hate that the last memory of my grandfather was him, unconscious, with tubes and pipes shoved down his throat, and his right hand all bandaged up in case he woke up and panicked and tried to rip them out. He didn't. February 25, 2020, he passed away not knowing who any of us were. I didn't pray for him. What 'God' would allow this!? If he can't just snap his fingers and fix Pop, then he's not all-powerful. If he doesn't want to, then he's evil!
I started reading this because February 25 is my birthday, my grandmother had Alzheimer’s and my mom died in the hospital so I’m really sorry for what you went through and I just want you to know I took the time to read all of this
This really hurts. Just thinking of this child who never gets to sit with her grief. I wonder, if Sophia was able to get out, how it would feel to remember that she was lied to and manipulated after losing one of her only friends, during a deeply isolating time in her life? I was never in a cult or even religious, but I am autistic, and I was very lonely as a kid, often went through years without any friends, and it really fucks you up, it's like you lose huge chunks of your childhood. The fact that Sophia made this rare connection with someone and then lost that person, and instead of getting to process her feelings in a healthy way, was pushed into more worship and obsession with Jehovah... it's like a distraction. She isn't able to send off Sister Elsa in a way that feels respectful, fulfilling, compassionate, and treasures their memories and friendship. Instead, she has to look away from her pain and prioritize her god. It's absolutely awful and has me so emotional.
I think any adult that’s experiencing grief can also tell you that “they’re in a better place” isn’t really comforting because it just feels like you’re telling that person they have no reason to be upset. The idea behind it is comforting, but I think it’s really important to show a kid that being upset is okay and that you’ll be there for them while they process.
Children and older adults can have a healthy friendship. Growing up, I had an older Asian woman that all the children called Grandma CC. She got me hooked on chocolate cake with red bean paste.
I agree my godfather was more of a good parent than my real father is.
Agreed. Ironically, Sister Elsa was a good example of that. Very much a grandmotherly kind of mentor figure. I think that's very healthy. It's just the JW culture opens up too many doors for the... less healthy "relationships" to come through.
oh that sounds like a genius combination
@zaplepikachu it was. It was two 9 inch circle cakes that sandwiched the red bean paste. I can't remember the icing used. It was sweet and earthy tasting, but it helped blend the two flavors very well for us American kids. She made it once a month, and every kid got a piece.
@@erikagehm2805 Regular Devil's Food or Red Velvet? And was the icing mixed with the red bean paste filling? Or just red bean paste in the middle of the cake separate of the frosting? A buttercream mixed with red bean paste sounds good tho...
Wow, way to disregard a little girl’s grief! Sister Elsa died, Sister Elsa will come back, Sesame Street has an episode where one of the characters died and there is a scene where Big Bird is told Mr. Hooper isn’t coming back, he’s dead shameful on watchtower
Yeah I remember that one. Sesame Street does have real teachers and real integrity, so that's a big difference in quality alreadh
God, that scene was a gut punch. Poor Big Bird.
"They don't come back."
"They don't?"
id like to chime in with my own experiences regarding to mortality and children. When i was seven, one of our dogs, who was also seven, got sick and died. i remember my parents being heartbroken about it. i connected the dots that, if the dog could die at seven, i could die at seven. this led to my first existential crisis fueled panic attack, at the age of seven, and i have had them regularly ever since. i am now 29.
through recent therapy I've come to terms with the fact that I'm not actually afraid of "death" but actually having PTSD reactions to the trauma caused by having such a large panic attack at such a young age and getting no help to process it.
Parents. please, do research into child psychology and learn the actual ways to teach kids about mortality. that shit can mess you up for a long time. Just because they stopped crying and.or telling you about it doesn't mean the issue is gone.
When I was fifteen, my brother's friend he fell out with died to leukaemia; she was only fourteen. That started a traumatic response, panic attacks and obsessive health anxiety around cancer that spiralled into Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. It felt like the exact same reasons as you-if she could die at fourteen, I could die at fifteen or sixteen. I didn't even process that she had a specific genetic mutation/family history which predisposed her to the cancer, i just thought taut dying as a teenager of cancer was inevitable to EVERYONE. Then we had several other instances of cancer in our extended social circle after that-diagnosis after diagnosis after diagnosis, and another death-that reinforced my belief that everyone got cancer and died before they could ever have the chance to live their life without taking it for granted. That the very body you live in is fundamentally unsafe and cannot be trusted to not show symptoms of some deadly disease every couple of days. I couldn't even register that there were plenty of survivors, even including another teenage friend of my brother (unrelated to the first one). All I could see was my life ending at fifteen and that cancer was was death sentence/always diagnosed too late to save people. I'm turning twenty-three this year and I still feel stuck in this response, as if I feel I'm back in high school learning about the death again. It happened around the time I was trying to process the idea of the Catholicism/Christianity that I was raised with being wrong and that death might just exist without an afterlife. I kept it all in because the idea of it was too unbearable to process without emotionally opening up, and I couldn't open up because I went to a Catholic school and my parents are lightly Catholic (not really practising outside of my mum's mild mass attendance with extended family and working at a Catholic school, but still believing in heaven and all that). I felt too scared to talk to anyone about it out of a fear I'd be rude or offend them by "breaking their view of reality" and making them feel my trauma. I was too afraid I'd break them the way I felt broken, or be punished and rejected by being rude to people, and that they couldn't answer my existential questions about death and meaning without religion. I was afraid of uncertainty and being helpless to process it without other people trying to bring me back to religion with "Oh she's in a better place! Oh she's gone to heaven and shes watching over her loved ones!", which just made feel angry and bitter at what I felt to be shallow bandaid platitudes over the festering deep wound, refusing to face the actual hard impact of mortality and a person not being around anymore or what it means to die/not live forever. Addressing mortality properly and appropriately, facing that pain and accept it head on and grieving/processing it, is far better than burying it under empty platitudes in my opinion. It does damage to shut down questions with stories.
Looking on it, it would actually be an interesting idea to reboot Caleb and Sophia. Instead of being basically propaganda for children, it could be written into a horror webseries. The dangers of cults and overzealous religion, and I can even see some good symbolism with maybe certain figures from the JW books are like distorted monsters from how Caleb and Sophia remember their childhood, and the overall chronic darkness of said place.
Shoot, we could use a few of the original shots and just re-edit it.
I have pledged my subscription to you, Lord Magog. I am honored to be an an agent of your army ✊
Seriously though, love what you do. I’m really glad to have found this channel ❤
Thank you Agent Wheeler. Glad you found us, I think we might be getting kinda popular soon lol.
At my kingdom hall age gap relationships/marriages were common. It was pretty normal to see 18/19 year old girls married to really old men. Even though I left the church as a teenager I still married an older man. It just didn't feel abnormal to me. Death was always a strange topic. I heard the "they went to sleep" line so much. Even though it's been around 20 years since I left I still have a fear of dying in my sleep.
Oh man, case in point. We really should talk about the huge age gaps as a dedicated video one of these days.
Personally I’d rather die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. It beats screaming my head off like the passengers in his car
@@DarthMagog For sure. I think age gap relationships can be fine but it's different when you're groomed from a young age to expect it. it seems pretty standard for Kingdom halls to ignore abuse that happens from encouraging such relationships. I remember when I was 14 an elder (who was in his 70s) took a "special interest" in me. I tried to report it but it just got me in trouble for lying about an elder. That's just the way it works in this religion.
I will give credit for one thing and one thing only: the sequences with Sophia bonding with the old lady and the flashbacks are decently done, and it’s a rare case of JW rattling off about *actual* persecution they historically faced rather than whinging about how being rejected by certain facets of mainstream society means they’re right about Jesus or something.
Right? The Sister Elsa video is ALMOST wholesome. They present a pretty badass woman who serves as a strong mentor & role model for Sophia, then utterly ruins it.
The commentary on the death episode actually reminds me of something. There was an episode of Sesame Street back in the 70s or 80s that touched on the subject of death. Big Bird was confused and insisted that his friend would be back later, and the adults had to explain to him that when you die, you can't come back. Handled the subject in a much better way than JW did. Obviously, Sesame Street is secular and features a cast of characters from all different walks of life, but it seems to come down to two things: the creators' understanding of the child's mind,and their intention. As an early childhood educator myself, I LOVE children's media that portrays a range of emotions as normal. Caleb & Sophia just...does not do that. It teaches kids that in the end, your feelings don't matter- but the feelings of an entity we can't even see absolutely do. It's fascinating and sad. It would be so interesting to research the psychological development of kids raised with media like this vs. kids raised on secular educational media some day. Like, I know there's a difference, but I'm curious to see if there's a correlation.
I can contribute to the research actually. Admittedly I did see Seasame street and other such media, but I was also raised in this religion with exposure to these teachings and media. So I guess the combination of the two results in.mm well whatever I count as 😅
I wouldn't want a study on kids raised purely in religious content vs those that weren't, because that would give a bad impression on the concept of religious cartoons.
All of them, except veggietales, are extremely bad, but they don't have to be. Doing a study on that might make it look like the lack of quality is a lack of potential quality.
@hio Man you don't not study something bc it may imply oe of the subjects is "bad" or "wrong". Science is about learning more to improve and understand life
@@pickledragonrebel you do when you already know the answer, especially when you also know the outside factor that will cause the result
@hio Man "knowing" something and providing back up evidence to confirm your theory are two different things.
I literally googled Jehovah’s Witness child content. I was expecting to find a website with Caleb and Sophia videos and books and things. Instead I was greeted with articles by news stations about different JW leaders being accused of SAing children in the congregation.
I’m definitely not surprised one bit, but it just makes me sick and I want to find a way to help these children.
I asked Telltale about it. One good way is donating to good charities. He recommended the Trevor Project, since LGBTQ Witness Kids are at very high risk.
@@DarthMagog thanks for the tip! Whenever I have a decent amount of money I will donate to them!! ❤️🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
@@DarthMagogWhile I was never a JW the Trevor project stopped me from killing myself, So I can confirm they do great work
It scares me the fact that "oh just pray for jesus (or someone else) and he'll help you through bullying!!" isn't a "normal" thing. I used to (forcedly) be christian and well, I grew in a strict religious household too (as the other people named mumu said), and i'd be always forced to believe in jesus, because if I didn't, I would be a dead weight for my family. I never liked religion but I respect those who do, I just don't like religion when people push you to do what they want instead if you want it.
I have two co-workers who are JHs but they are the progressive version. My one coworker went to college and also got a beautician license to do hair and loves to talk to us. Most JHs are expected to be polite, but that's it. My other coworker doesn't care that I'm Bi and still tries to hang outside of work which is cool and she celebrated with us when Sephora closed in our store. She didn't toast, but she still went to celebrate the time we all shared at Sephora (we work in JCPenney). She also loves magic stuff like Harry Potter and she absolutely loves vines. Its nice seeing people who follow their religion but are still good people.
That is what religion should be. Believing in what YOU believe, and respecting what others believe.
I’m very lucky that I knew death wasn’t the same as sleeping at 4, an old lady at my grandma’s funeral said “don’t worry, she’s just sleeping!” And I just smiled and nodded but was thinking “okay lady, if that helps you feel better I won’t break it to you” lol. There was other religious trauma around sleep though, I was TERRIFIED thanks to that prayer with the line “if I should die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take”. And also the waking up to an empty house and panicking because the rapture had happened and I got Left Behind (when really I had just slept in and dad was at work or mom was in the yard, etc). So while I knew sleeping wasn’t death, there was a lot of loss and death portrayed as going to happen DURING sleeping.
Oh my gosh yess! Those exact same things kept me up as a kid on multiple occasions
With the first one: I agree you can be friends with older people. My late nana (great grandmother) was my closest relative, I have been friends with people who could be my grandparents, however, having only older friends puts you in a certain power imbalance. It’s not healthy having ONLY older friends.
Agreed, there has to be variety. Also RIP to Nana. I wish Grandparents could come back as Force Ghosts when you need guidance, like in Empire Strikes Back or Moana.
@@DarthMagog I mean in Slavic Paganism you can contact your ancestors for help, sooo- maybe they can (I sure give em coffee to do so)
Something Christians generally have failed to grapple with is the nature of physical and mental disability, illness, and divergence. There are a lot of people in the world who, if you "cure" or "heal" them in the way most people imagine or assume, will cease to be *themselves.* (This was triggered by Sister Elsa being age-regressed back to her twenties or thirties based on some implicit assumption that this is a person's "prime" and everyone would choose to be that age if they could.)
Probably to compensate for the lack of actual healing that these Faith Healers can't do
i really, really appreciate the cute banter between you two. it really helps to help contrast the dark subject matter
Thank you Mo :) Glad we can help you deconstruct
knowing that telling children "they went to sleep" and "they're in a better place" explains why I feel like I'm screwed up as an adult. I have constant looming anxiety now about dying in my sleep and I'm emotionally stunted when it comes to processing grief. I grew up Pentecostal Christian and every day I'm learning more and more that my experience was traumatic and damaging.
Pentecostal is getting popular around here, right after Baptists and Mormons it seems.
This reminds me of the time my grandfather has died, the one person I was probably the closest with, due to my parents always working long hours and as a 13 year old my grandmother - who is and was a witness - has seen an opportunity in it to "help" me with that grief by introducing me to her "friends" and pushing me to start to study this stuff. Lucky for me, even as a 13 year old - with a worldly upbringing - seen that this stuff is just weird and bounced but...yeah...these actions of my grandmother, it's a fun (/s) one to think about for sure to this day...
I'm not, nor was I ever, a JW, but I find learning about the religion or, from what I understand cult, as well as other cultic groups something of a fascination. So I've seen Caleb and Sophia analyses before and have watched all of them this far on this channel.
I have a couple of suggestions I'd like to see analyzed here. Hopefully it's okay to make these suggestions considering I'm not an ex-JW (or a current one lol). I don't really know the titles or episode numbers so I'll just give some descriptions.
There's one, I think it's an earlier episode, Mom and Caleb are at the store and Mom says she's not buying any candy, and Caleb contemplates stealing some. Don't steal is of course a good lesson, but I'd love to see the reason why you shouldn't steal according to Jehovah's Witnesses get the Commander Fives treatment.
There's another episode where Caleb is inside and Mom asks him why he's not outside playing. He says Dad was punishing him and Mom likened it to when a tree needed supports to grow properly.
And there's another episode where they were going to go, I believe to the park, after a meeting. But somebody needed a ride home so that plan got kibashed. The kids were disappointed about not going to the park and Mom's like 'hey, you know what? You can make a sacrifice like Jesus did!'.
Just some suggestions on things that would be interesting to see analyzed.
Suggestions are always welcome Lauren. I've got a screen shot of the list, I'll see which ones are popular and trick Fives into watching some this week :)
So I've had this one idea and I have no idea how to pull it off but it seemed to good not to mention so here it goes...
What we need is Caleb and Sofia counter-series. I'm thinking we make it look as close as possible to the animation style of Caleb and Sofia. We presumably couldn't get the same voice actors but we'd need people who can sound as close as possible. Basically try to make it look close enough that, seen out of context, it could easily be mistaken for an episode of the regular Caleb and Sofia.
The catch is it's actually seen from the perspective of other characters and showing the harm done by Jehovah's Witnesses teachings. This could even include retelling existing episodes from other perspectives. Some ideas:
-The aftermath of the Sparlock incident where Caleb's friend learns his toy was thrown out, and has to deal with Caleb trying to explain why it's wrong to play with a wizard action figure.
-An episode centered on Carrie, who is being relentlessly harassed by Sofia's attempts to explain why she shouldn't have two mothers.
-The hospital episode from the point of view of a doctor treating Sister Elsa, during which we learn she could have survived if she'd been given a life-saving blood transfusion. We follow the doctor's struggles to deal with being actively blocked from saving their patient and watching the family grieve a preventable loss.
-The "Who Should be My Friend" episode from the perspective of Sofia's classmates, following their futile efforts to make Sofia feel included, which are doomed because of her religion's teachings.
Anyone know where we can get an animation team to make this happen?
Not on the cheap, not like Bethel no. There are a ton of talented ExJW artists out there, I'm sure if there was a big enough platform to advertise, it could get done.
Probably wouldn't be hard to get VAs. That was the easy part when my friends and I were trying to make a video game...
16:42 I am a born and raised Baptist/Nondenominational (we moved around a lot when I was a kid), and I had several close family members and friends pass away before I was thirteen. Actually, I was barely 13 when my orchestra teacher died, literally 13 years and 6 days, and to say I was devastated is a gross understatement. But as a kid who went to Church regularly and believed that we all go to Heaven after we die, it was a small comfort to know that my passed loved ones weren’t suffering any more. My teacher was battling cancer for the second time, my great granddad was almost 98, my Nanny was about that same age when she passed, etc. It still hurt and I was sad that I wouldn’t get to see them on Earth anymore, but… idk at the end of the day I knew they weren’t in pain anymore and that was comforting. So, *on the surface, because Sofia asked specifically what Jehovah could do for Elsa* her parents explaining to her that “Oh Sister Elsa will be in paradise because of what Jesus did etc. etc.” Isn’t bad. You would want your kid (I would hope) to know that even though their loved one is gone, they’re in a better place.
Now, how the parents deal with Sofia’s continued grieving has yet to be seen. If they continue to push the “oh you shouldn’t be sad bc Elsa is in a better place”, then that’s messed up. Sister Elsa being in a better place should be a comfort, not an excuse as to why Sofia is sad. Does that make sense? Like, “Sofia I know you’re sad, and I know this hurts. It’s okay to be sad because you lost someone near and dear to you, and I will be here to help you and talk with you about anything.” This will validate Sofia’s feelings and let her know that it’s okay to grieve the passing of a loved one, and then as Sofia starts to come to terms and accept that Elsa has passed, she will be more comforted by the idea that Elsa is in Paradise and not in pain anymore. Does that make sense? I hope my word vomit makes sense 😅
Love you all and I hope y’all are doing well!
28:00: Dude, that evil laugh from Magog and Fives was so perfect! 😅
I have worked in ECE for years at this point and I highly highly highly recommend NOT telling kids "they went to a better place". I've seen this train of thought lead a child to suicidal idealization, especially when the child has enduring Adverse Childhood Experiences.
Oh holy hell, I hadn't even considered that. TBH the thought had crossed my mind as a kid, but I never really had the motivation or the means to "speed up going to paradise" but I could certainly see this affecting JWs and other religious minded people, especially children.
When forced to be some type of Christian as a child, there was a song the children all had to sing about how one day, we’d all be able to go to heaven. Hurray! One day you get to die, kids! One line was where we’d all sing, loud as we could, “I want to go there!!” as cheerfully as possible too. I remember several times thinking about getting there early, as I was raised to know it was so much better than being alive. I was still no more than nine for all that.
It’s kids like when adults tell you that high school is the best years of your life. Never tell kids that. High schools tough enough as it is and even if they had a great time, it really doesn’t give them much of an incentive to keep on living
This one was a great one Magog. Given the children that we deal with that have been removed from their parents due to abuse, the loss of their family is awful, even given the circumstance as to why, and the children don't know how to process it. There's a lot to be gathered from this on why they shut down on themselves. It definitely shined a light on how deeply troubling JW's behave and how their behaviors are linked to a general blanket of child abuse, neglect, and mistreatment. It also expanded on why, alot of times, the children grow up to adulthood and perpetuate the cycle... it's disheartening..
As someone who lost a friend 2 years ago I feel sorry for Sophia master Magog. 😰😓😢😥😿😭
Awww, dude I'm so sorry :(
Thank you Master Magog she Passed away from Cancer during the first October the Colvid Pandemic so was only able to say goodbye @ her Celebration of of her life where everyone was there including her family & her Grand Children & other friends were there it was very beautiful master Magog. ♥️😭😇♥️
@@DarthMagog ♥️
@@DarthMagog all I can say is F Cancer master Magog. 😢😥🤬
@@DarthMagog I always hated Hospitals growing up master Magog. 😈😉
Grief is such a hard thing to talk about with kids, and they fail at every step. Leaving aside not meetin the kids where they are - this weird glorification of death could very well lead to suicidal ideation in people! If life is terrible and full of sin, and your classmates won't speak to you, and you have no church friends your own age, and everything you do is slathered in guilt... going to paradise early can seem pretty appealing. Growing up in a mixed catholic and baptist family, I saw A LOT of this kind of thinking, and I imagine it would only be worse with even stricter social isolaton.
When commander fives brings up how they don't address the child's feelings, that is such an important point. Ex mormon and they do that for EVERYTHING, "oh, you got sick? Lost an arm? Got SA'd? Well REJOICE BECAUSE JESUS LOVES YOU!" Absolutely does not address anything, and they think that you should no longer need assistance for whatever you went through. It's so stunting and horrible.
The glossing over is so painful and common, I hate it
i never expected that a series of videos online would make me realize how much my family screwed me up and how much I need therapy but here we are
Oh no worries, Fives and I have been hearing that a lot lately 😅
I drove by a Kingdom Hall being built yesterday. Even the children were working on it. Really messed up.
Oh at this time of year? Shame on them.
Good news is that the longtime Kingdom Hall in my area is no longer a Kingdom Hall, as of about a year or so ago, which tells me that there were too few local JWs to sustain it. Bad news is that it's now the meeting place for a *different* (but probably more benign) cult of a New Agey/Eastern persuasion.
@@dinosaysrawr well we'll call it a win, so long as New Age cult isn't abusing spouses and children
@@DarthMagog , agreed! It's definitely an upgrade in a pinch.
As a person who was a part of jehovah's witnesses. There was one thing that have been bothering me but it dawned on me after years of being away from it
They care about their religion more than they do their kids
Correct. An elder in my congregation, verbatim told me that Jehovah was his first priority and (son's name) was his second..
So good as always ❤ fives taught me a lot of things to keep in mind for my niece.
I want to help give her things I know my family can’t the most major of which is genuine emotional support
Kai if I had a cool, Apostate aunt like you, I'd be so much more well adjusted. All the hugs to you, the BF and your sobrina! 💙
40 years ago I was a little girl in Sophia’s place, i was not able to process my grandmother’s death until I was an adult and out of the witnesses.
For my other grandmother I kicked at jw conventions and we insisted that I (a woman!) stood up at her funeral and gave a eulogy- wearing a trouser suit. Strangely the Elder conducting the service did not let me have the microphone or even speak to me!
On the Kingdom Hall running video, I remember my parents telling me to not run and stuff because of the potential running over of elderly people, and I really didn’t run because I didn’t care about doing it very much. Though one time I became quite frustrated because an elderly person actually walked against me and caused me to fall (I was like four???I think) and my parents didn’t treat it as as big as a deal as they would’ve for me if I ran over an elderly person lmao. I was like: ‘You have to treat these situations as equal and punish the elderly person too like you would me!!!!’
Throws the whole religon into perspective. Children are really 2nd class citizens in that religion.
Great video as always! Just to say, I think the flashback to Berlin was supposed to be in East Germany during the Cold War (notice the huge wall she cycles past) rather than Nazi Germany, in case that clears up any confusion.
Yeah contextually that makes more sense for sure!
@Darth Magog @Benjamin Davey And she did mention that she was in Berlin, so that would make sense if the wall depicted was the infamous Berlin Wall.
The problem is that children won't have any idea about what that wall probably was, or the historical context around it. And parents below a certain age wouldn't have any memory of that either. Remember that the Wall fell in 1989, over thirty years ago. Older Millennials would be the youngest people alive with any memory of the Wall, or the larger Cold War era.
They could have given such a powerful history lesson on the Cold War, and how JWs functioned within that context. The fact that the Borg didn't do so says a lot about the video's purpose.
They say that they do a Bible education work. Maybe that statement wasn't as far from reality years ago, but they don't even attempt to really educate anyone in these Caleb and Sophia videos. Their main purpose is religious indoctrination, plain and simple.
@@moviefiend44 100% agree.
I remember my wife and I telling our son that the kingdom hall was Jehovah's house. He looked around one day and told my wife why he can't see Jehovah if the KH was his house. Good question too.
Very good question!
Damn you guys are becoming like my fav people on UA-cam right now I'm so glad y'all are here to explain jw stuff because I never really had someone tell me in detail about all the odd things they teach
It is an honor to be among your favorites Corbin 😁
*sigh* As a person who is really open to discussing the topic of anything to do with death, this is just hugely embarrassing.
Pretty rough isn't it?
@@DarthMagog I would tell Sophia that it’s okay to grieve and that even though she won’t be able to see Elsa again in this life (though to be honest, there most likely isn’t another life), Elsa is no longer in pain and that the memories will live on.
I have never seen this first part not watching these through others. Thank you for showing this.
Happy to share 😊
I will say it was an interesting place to take the episode. Talking about how they handled things during the war. I like to hear stories of human ingenuity and camaraderie and people banding together. Fighting against a system that oppresses them, showing little acts of kindness in the face of horrible atrocities...
Something nice about it.
Child psychologise this: I was about 11 and my cat needed to be put down. I was sad, but I had accepted that it had to happen because he was sick and in pain. I go to bed feeling pretty secure in the idea that it was the right thing to do. After I went to bed, dad took the cat to the vet to be put down (emergency visit). Dad... WOKE ME UP TWO HOURS LATER to tell me that "He went peacefully, no suffering at all.... well, goodnight." He turned out the light and left the room. I started BALLING! It is so messed up and so funny now (why couldn't he wait until the morning, or not say anything at all), I still don't know why he did that, and he maintains to this day that it didn't happen (mum knows it happened). XD
Thank you for acknowledging that there are ways to navigate difficult emotions in a healthier way while still remaining religious. No one solution is going to work for everyone, and I appreciate that you haven't fixated on religion as an always negative aspect of people's lives.
Oh of course. We generally find that things aren't usually mutually exclusive and you have to apply nuance to most situations. There are even (a very few) things i liked about being a JW myself
Darth...the force is strong with you! You do a GREAT job of handling an evil subject. The things they do to the minds of innocent children!!!! Those Caleb & Sophia videos are some of the most evil stuff they've done.....destroying children, one video at a time
We'll fight Watchtower and their fleets to the end. If for no other reason, then just to give kids the choice 🤗 thanks for coming in Stacy!
@@DarthMagog 100%!!
Given the fact that Adam had no knowledge of good or evil until he ate from the Tree of Knowledge, he couldn't have known that it was wrong to disobey God. Given that He is supposed to be all seeing and all knowing, he would have known what was going to happen before he even put the tree there. So really it was God's fault, and then him deflecting the blame away from himself and then punishing someone else, like he usually seemed to do. So really Adam's bad reputation is undeserved. - Another great video Darth Magog, and Commander Five is always a welcome face.
Thank you Agent Watson! Yeah makes you wonder about what the plan was with even leaving the tree in the garden in the first place. Like, what's the point of making that plant?
I've ended up playing star wars games while having you guys in the background to listen? Great video as always!!
Battlefront II? 👀
@@DarthMagog That and Star War's Republic online :D
Is it bad that ever since a few months ago I started watching your contact all the time and every time you come out the new video I’m excited because for some reason hearing how crazy Jehovah’s Witnesses it’s like my fresh air compared to everything else that’s going on right now
Well I can't say if it's bad or not definitively, but Fives and I are honored to be able to contribute to your self care 💙
Really like the perspective I’ve gained from these videos and the insight it’s provided into my own experiences and ways they’ve affected me being born and raised in the org. Thank you so much for the work you’re both doing for us all.
Thank you for reaching out and supporting too. I honestly started the channel mostly as a therapeutic thing for myself, but it's amazing to hear that fellow ExJW kids (and other Spiritually Absued folks) are healing too 💙
I grew up in a strict catholic home and had all my feelings about death redirected. When I got older and stopped believing in God it sent me reeling, I was so anxious about death and had no skills to handle it.
Same here. When every one of your coping skills regarding death get undermined, it's terrifying. It's especially painful when you realize that you're not going to see anyone again that's already dead, and had used that to cope with grief previously.
It takes a lot of healing and a lot of focus to work it out. Took me some time to devolp healthy coping skills for mourning.
This gives "let it go" a whole new meaning...
Lett is Gone lol (Oh I hope he doesn't pass away soon, I don't need this quote to age like Milk)
As someone who grew up in more a more mainstream Christian culture, the Lazarus story would not have done me a single bit of good when my grandma passed. I mean, Lazarus was resurrected in the flesh on this planet, it's not even close to the same thing! Thank god my mom (who was obviously going through it too) had the sense to comfort us without platitudes.
Take time to remember the person you've lost. Take time to grieve, to just be . Whether there is an afterlife or not, it's still a loss!
Anyway, for anyone who is feeling sad for literally any reason today, it's okay. You'll be happy again eventually, and you're not "bad" or "wrong" for not being happy right now.
Gotta say the plane crushing got a laugh out of me.
Lol just the timing
I remember when I lost of father at 6 years old. I remember crying and one of my distance family members look at me, a crying 6 year old that barley understand death that "God needed him more". A 6 year old. I was told god needed my father more, then me, a 6 YEAR OLD CHILD!
Right up there with "all part of God's plan" and all. It's a very frustrating aspect of religion, and exhausting when you're trying to be human 😓
@DarthMagog I was lucky enough not to be raised around that on a normal basis. Religion by itself isn't bad. But, I feel as if someone going through a loss shouldn't be told "God needed them more" or "It's all in God's plan." I remember feeling guilty that God didn't think I needed my dad anymore. Didn't help his death was held over my head.
I would love to dive into the animation studio behind these.
What if I told you that the animation studio is entirely in house?
@@DarthMagog oh I assumed so.
The animation models bother the hell out of me. It feels like someone (or a small team) who had/have a lot of passion for 3d art who decided to use their gift to Jahova.
They probably do it for free too..
@@OzMediaOfficial very small stipend at Bethel there Oz. I think like 113 dollars a month. Might be up to 200 now, but yeah they're basically slaves. And are aware of the fact that they are, in fact, basically slaves.
@@DarthMagog A MONTH? That's... Incredibly heart breaking.
It’s like the worst parts of the animation industry mixed with the toxic concept of giving up your entire life to god. Absolute nightmare
Encouraging kids to befriend adults along with the 2 witness rule could be a toxic combo I'm thinking... all you need is one person to ruin an entire temple halls group of kids if you will. That's a dangerous slippery slope.
We have an excellent example in Pennsylvania and Colorado right now, I'm sorry to say.
All throughout year 2 to year 6 I had a friend who was a JW, At the time I had no idea it was a cult, all I knew was that she was very quiet and no one had met her parents and she wasn't allowed to celebrate birthdays or Christmas. I thought it was awful and felt bad for her. I thought it was boring and stupid that she wasn't allowed to celebrate. I once openly told her that her religion was about as interesting as a bag of wet sand - looking back, it's a miracle that she barely acknowledged it at all and we were still friends.
Then I found out JWs were a cult - about a year after I lost contact with her. I was in denial for a while because I didn't want to accept that a friend had been trapped in a cult this whole time and I didn't know. But I've accepted it now.
I can't find her online or on social media or anything, and I have no way of knowing what happened to her after year 6.
Olivia Mason, if you're reading this, it's Rose from school. Please tell me if you're okay.
Makes me think about how Jesus wept when his friend Lazarus died. Jesus knew he would resurrect Lazarus and he knew about eternity, but he still cried because he's human. It's normal to miss someone when they die, there's still a separation happening. Mourning is completely normal, and I think those kids should be allowed to grieve and know that.
I’m not a fan of religious funerals. Many of them feel like they’re holding the memory of your loved one hostage.
“Your friend is gone now… and if you ever want to see them again, you’ll complete this list of demands.”
Also, the death of a loved one is a sensitive time. It’s not the time to rush into some long term commitment with a deity or demanding structure of any kind.
Thats a great metaphor actually!
That’s exactly what it feels like!
found your channel on a whim and even though i'm not a jehovah's witness, ex jehovah's witness, or a star wars fan (got nothing against it i'm just not a sci-fy guy lol), i find a lot of comfort in it.
i was raised southern baptist and i'm still currently surrounded by it and it's honestly eerie to me how similar these ideologies are to it, even though southern baptists always paint jw as the cult that it is (for weird reasons, mostly cause they don't believe in hell iirc and nothing else). i've had very severe anxiety with death because i've been constantly surrounded by death and these ideas that if you don't act a certain way, you could go to hell and suffer forever at any moment. it's led me to be nearly dysfunctional as an adult, and it doesn't help that i have autism that's gone undiagnosed for a very long time.
luckily i have a therapist who's really supportive and helping me learn to cope and communicate properly and friends/loved ones who've been helping me work through everything. being a closeted gay trans man is definitely a struggle considering i'm still stuck in the religion, but i'm finding ways to work through it so i can hopefully escape from the toxic environment when my mental health is in a place where i can move in by myself.
seeing that i'm not alone in my struggles is always a comforting thing to see, even if we aren't necessarily in the same exact boat. not only that but its also incredibly validating to have a professional call out all of these toxic practices from abrahamic religions that have caused me so much grief growing up.
also even though i know next to nothing about star wars, i adore your channel theme. it's really sweet to me and definitely helps make the uncomfortable trauma topics a bit easier to talk about.
anyways, sorry for the long rant. really love your stuff and i'm definitely sticking around for more,, :)
Never a rant and it's always an honor to share in someone's experience. Also I'm inspired that you're putting in the work to do your healing, including therapy 💙
It's sad that Sophia lost one of the few friends she has and even sadder that her grief has to take a backseat to her religion.
I love how youre saying canon like this is some kind of fandom, and i mean, it basically is just another toxic fandom with extra steps
I've always seen a refusal to be honest about death and using euphemisms as a huge red flag ever since I was a teen and one of my old favorite horses was gone from the stable where I'd been going for riding lessons, and when I asked her owner he just deflected and said she'd been moved to a pasture further away, and only told the truth (that she had to be put down due to illness and old age) when I pressed him. Later on the very same man's daughter came out and revealed he was a monster whom'd been beating his wife and kids behind the scenes, and I've been associating that insistence on false sugarcoating with abusers ever since.
Actually that does track with how the religion tends to treat things around abuse. So that's a remarkabky good example :(
That quote Sophia made about friends can be any age as long as they love Jehovah rubs me the wrong way. There can be a lot of problems with that with the worst being grooming. I literally set my phone down and buried my face in my hands hearing that phrase.
The other thing that bothered me was instead of saying “to those in need” she said “to our brothers and sisters” during the war. This is basically saying that they don’t care about the other people who need help unless they’re fellow JW members. Its a damaging underlying message that the other people outside the religion don’t matter unless the pioneering brings them in.
Oh boy, that’s hospital video. It really bugged me because the last thing needed while someone close is in the hospital is religion. There’s literally no reason to bring up religion in a time like that. It’s sickening and I’m so glad I didn’t have to deal with that while my third cousin was in the hospital and died. And talking to kids about religion during a tough time is even worse because they’re already struggling to understand the concept of death and loss.
The last one, I had to pause for a minute after the dad came with the Bible.
To parents in a religion: DO NOT DO THIS!!!
This infuriated me because the video is basically giving off the message: if you feel grief, just read about some imaginary person who performed miracles. We done care.
GAAAAH! Not only that, but I feel like it’s also teaching children in the organization to do the same thing when they grow up and have children. I can just smell the generational trauma that can come from this because they are not properly taught how to deal with death and loss. You can’t just force the same grieving process onto everyone. People process death differently and this video doesn’t even tell you that.
This cult needs to be taken down and not seen as a religion because it’s anything but that!
Edit: edit here, I just made the realization after I made the comment about the organization teaching children to, as you two said, ‘throw themselves into the religion’.
Sofia does the same thing when a classmate’s relative died!!! This proves that they’re teaching children what to do when dealing with death. It’s an underlying message, but it’s dangerous nonetheless.
Oh man I forgot about that video, maybe I should have Fives watch that one next time...
The dad is wasting his sexy Transylvania voice
#FreeCalebsDadFromWatchtower
@@DarthMagog free the whole family master Magog. 😇😈
Aww man wish I would watch this when it's fresh and hot outta the oven so to speak, but I gotta work today! I'll watch it later tho, late to the party as always! XD
As Masahiro Sakurai would say "Heroes arrive late." We'll see ya after work Kym 😁
the dad being expected to take a more involved role in parenting seems like parenting would be really one sided and unhealthy for couples considering raising children is stressful...
It's a bit of a mess. Families and relationships are VERY patriarchal.
We all agree that sister Elsa deserves a spin off just for herself, right?
#SisterElsaChronicles
@@DarthMagog make it a thread lmao
I think you should have Fives analyze the characters in ‘The Owl House,’ it’s a Disney show with religious themes. Quite a few of the characters in the show explore religious trauma. It’d be interesting to hear your guys thoughts on it.
Oh I think I've heard of that one, might have to give it a peek
aw man i rlly wanna watch this now lol but idk if my makeups gonna be done for that long before stream
Don't worry, it'll stay up :)
@@DarthMagog YIPPPEEEE!!! ^^
To be honest, wouldn't God have been more concerned with the old lady's well-being than hospitality?
You'd like to think that...
We can't process grieving if people lie to us even when they are children 😔
Honesty is the best policy. And there's nothing wrong with a good cry. I might be a bit better adjusted if I had a more transparent upbringing 😅
My parents didn’t tell me that my dog died until 2 days later. I guess they wanted to wait until the weekend so my grief wouldn’t get in the way of school, but I felt so bad because I didn’t notice he was gone. I wasn’t there when they put him down and I never got to say goodbye. I think that last part is what messed me up so much
I always feel bad that Sophia is never allowed to make friends with kids her age because they’re not Jehovah’s Witnesses. I understand it’s ok to be friends with older people but she can’t go to birthday parties and sleepovers with other children and create a healthy social circle
Or celebrate holidays with them, or even visit them outside of school hours. It's pretty troublesome.
When I was a teen I read a book about a teenage girl in 90s Germany (now the "excluded") and how her grieving father after remarrying (he was a widower) converted whole family (meaning him and the daughter, Hannah) into JW, because his second wife was one. Looking back his end was comical. He could have lived longer. But due to JWs anti-body modifications theories (including blood transfusion) he died, way too young.
Speaking of marriage, what's the deal with divorced/widowed people?
Oh that's a whole video onto itself really.
It really is just a footnote in the sunday service, right between the reading of the watch tower and the overseer's talk. One of the brothers my younger brother studied with committed the big oomph after he was outed for being on a date with a man. his father *was* the overseer. He'd just had him in with the elders to give him the come to Jehovah talk that comes before being cast out. They didn't even give him more than a minute of consideration. Didn't acknowledge that he was leaving a twin behind. Just said "he has passed into the sleep that comes between this world and the next, and we look forward to seeing him whole and healed of his afflictions in the new world", like being scared, gay, and depressed was a sickness. They never even spoke about him again, like he was already disfellowshipped. My older brother still pretends he never existed, decades later. It's horrifying.
But that's all you are to the witnesses. A brief moment of motivation to reach The New World. If you're 'afflicted' by any of their apostate standards... you're just a passing thought that never comes up again.
Oh no, I hate those sleep-related euphemisms around death (and I am an adult).
In German, when a pet has to be put down/euthanised, the expression is “einschläfern” - which isn't far from “einschlafen” (to fall asleep)!
So it's even worse when a child hears what happend to the old family dog.
I would not use such expressions that can easily be misunderstood - children always take things literally, so the expression “X is fast asleep now” can cause problems, even if well-intended.
I would just use neutral, basic language around children: “X died.”
Even if the grief is just so strong.
If you suffer the loss of a person near and dear to you, while being able to utter the phrase “X died” to convey the most bitter fact to a child, you have proven strength.
Wise words indeed
the one in the hospital and some of what commander fives was saying actually is why I kinda turned my back on religion as a whole (still interested In world religions and find them all fascinating but don't follow any set of beliefs) when my mom passed (i was 5 years old at the time) i was supposed to accept some deity who is supposed to be inhearnetly good would take a young childs mother from them and it was some sort of grand plan that they had. by the time I was 9 I had decided that I will not sacrifice time or energy to a deity that would do such things. im now more or less practice Religious syncretism taking bits and pieces from various regions to create my own belief system.
Hey that works well. I always found it a little bizarre that God's master plan involved the seemingly random sparing of some lives and destruction of others, instead of just having a quick 1 v 1 with Satan or whatever other special evil forces were out there. Makes you think.
They did Elsa dirty. They made her interesting, then they used her as a plot device.
Grief and loss, there no catch all answer how to go through it. Each person is different and each loss is different. I have shut down completely (I know, not the healthiest, but I was a child dealing with the death of the person I was closest to) and I have cried two days straight (I swear, if I didn't have to pull myself together I would have cried longer). I've lost people I just knew. I still expect to see them and hear about how they are during. The deeper losses still hurt. But it's okay, as long as they are dealt with in a healthy way that doesn't hurt myself or others. There is no time limits. No right ways. There no real moving on, just living on with your memories with them.
Couldn't have put it better myself. We all need to grieve in our own way
I don’t know much about JW expectations of Armageddon, but I was under the impression they believe there will be a period of them being persecuted, driven, underground, et cetera et cetera. Maybe it’s the writer in me that I would’ve thought that sister Elsa I would’ve been an amazing vector for stories about passive resistance, dealing with the persecution of the world, the government against the watchtower and so on? By literally exploring her actual historical context.
Oh the "Great Tribulation" they're always on about. Yeah that would have been a good way to lead into that.
I actually had the pleasure of witnessing a JW funeral first hand when my second cousin once removed passed. It was bizarre to hear about the revival as an outsider. The whole thing was just about (like Magog said) how you shouldn't be sad because he will just come back to life, and that went on for the whole thing, and maybe that was some comfort for some I cannot see how that is a comfort for his mother, who lost her only child early, or my father (who also isn't in the church and never will be) who lost his best friend, or even his adopted children and relatively new wife. The whole thing just makes me sad because the church is just saying that you shouldn't be sad because he's not really dead, and for the most part stunts the grief you should be experiencing by the lost of family and friend. Thank god my dad was never brought into that religion and by extension me.
Glad you're safe from the influence too
There’s also the Christian funerals where if you’re unlucky enough to get a priest, you have to deal with a guy that probably doesn’t even know you talk to your family about how you can still see them again if you just “believe” basically holding your dead loved ones for ransom as an attempt to convert grieving friends and family. Definitely NOT having a priest at my funeral
I would love an entire lore video about Darth Magog and Clone Commander 5's place in Star Wars Lore. I want the backstory. I thought the idea was that usually the Empire are a metaphor for Facism, but in this case it must be a play on that? The JW would see him as "evil" so he's riffing on that in the most fun way possible? Making this a bit more palatable for the audience? Either way, I love these videos, and their both very funny while also teaching me. I'm taking Early Childhood Education and Early Childhood Development, and they are terribly boring but this makes them a little less so by giving me contextual applications of the information. :D
I think if I get enough interest i may do a "Darth Magog Origins" episode
bro ngl the 2d animation was fluid 👍
They've got a LOT of talented guys workin on this stuff and it's criminal that they have to waste their talents on propaganda.
Im not religious but i have a belief where how you live your life can affect the outcome of your soul's final form, and you aren't restricted by rules someone else just as flawed as you made up
I don't take these beliefs too seriously, its just something that gives me comfort when i think about what could happen when i die, that a part of me and who i was as a person could become something new even after im gone from this world
Idk, the whole hospital episode made me think about it
Hey nothing wrong with the beliefs that bring you personal comfort. Unlike this organization, you're just sharing what helps you and not forcing those beliefs and expectations on a small, grieving, child. So that's very helpful
@@DarthMagog thanks, im not sure where to begin when i think about having to comfort my future children when they inevitably have to grieve the loss of someone
Maybe i'll feel out what upsets them the most and try to lessen that burden so they can grieve without those scary thoughts consuming them
Also, never make a child go up to an open casket! Ask first, and also let them know whats going on
I remember as a teen going to a funeral and seeing the relative in an open casket: it was strange, it looked like she was sleeping, but her chest wasnt moving like someone breathing, and i found that disconnect almost disturbing
I noticed Elsa didn't seem to have any family members at the hospital. Probably none of them were JW and well....Elsa shunned them. The whole "associating with the world" I guess.
Again, I've noticed how irritated their parents seem when Caleb and Sophia ask questions.
Yeah I think Elsa only mentioned a husband once and it's not clear if he's around...
Stumbling across Caleb and Sophia videos and people breaking down what was wrong with the religion has peeled back another layer of confused identity with my upbringing in the Service and how startled my parents were when I just turned to them one night and said "This religion is stupid."
Young Ravenn was very wise i see
@@DarthMagog 20+ years later, I still struggle with holidays. Didnt realize how much damage was done in my formative years until I got married and joined a new family and struggle hardcore with Christmas.
30:00 And they know a lot of possibly unbelieving family will be at the memorial and it is kind of a pitch to them.
Yup, best way to Market i guess 🤷