Price of sextants going up. Now for yellow sextants it costs 45-50c investment per maps, over 60 maps it is 2700-3000c . Accounting the fact that they sell them in sextants, not in usual chaos, that trade is rng based (often no response)........ Cripple the profit by a very large margin. Still profitable but not worth the hassle and time loss in trading. Just forget the sextants at this point and just run maps without it.
I think ggg should make crop rotation more rewarding as is a more engaging mechanic. The game should reward more active playstyle rather than lazy go in, click the bigger blue number, go out. Good video.
Would love to see this in 3.23. I did a tiny sample set of 8 maps each while invitation farming. Sextants: Magic pack, blue plants, sacred grove, elder map drop. Atlas: Harvest nodes with blocked blue plants. Only toggling on and off CR. Scarabs: Rusted Profit ended up being almost identical in such a tiny sample size. But I'm assuming the rng of CR would eventually lose out to the consistency of traditional. Will keep testing as I go.
Solid work! I think however, the results might have been the other way if you were more lucky with 5-plots on Crop Rotation. From my alch'n'go experience, it's the biggest factor when it comes to the amount of lifeforce. Would be interesting to compare the lifeforce from Crop Rotation vs Traditional Harvest Farming but exclusively from 5-plot ones.
this is true, though i'm pretty burnt on harvest and getting enough data for 5-plot comparison is a tall order in terms of time investment. I'll leave that up to anyone who's curious enough to try it.
Looking at the data recorded I did a little bit of testing with only total lifeforce by aggregating the plot distributions a bit. What I looked at was the average amount of lifeforce generated by 3,4, and 5 plot harvests respectively in each method. For the traditional method the averages were 2259, 2270, 3604 meanwhile for crop-rotation it was 941, 2115, and 4097. Combining the plot data in both test resulted in 21-5plot, 63-4plot, 36-3plot. Multiplying the averages with the combined plot occurrence data still gives that crop rotation gives less overall lifeforce (~390 lf per map). I think that looking at the numbers with the combined plot occurrences should discount the luck of 5-plots in traditional test and lack of luck in the crop rotation
Hey man, I copied your sheet and repeated the experiment, but without sextants this time, so just rusted scarabs and alch & go. I can send you the sheet if you're interested. Crop rotation had a slightly better yield, but the result wasn't significant so can't say much. CR averaged .13 div/map and tradition .11 div/map so alch and go harvest is probably not the move. I'm gonna run the experiment again but with more of an investment in sextants and higher tier scarabs to see how that fairs. Not too sure how i'm gonna set it up exactly. Probably yellow lifeforce dup and magic pack size sextants for traditional. And blue or purple lifeforce dup and magic pack size sextants for crop rotation. I'm gonna up the scarabs to either polished or gilded and take wandering path with traditional and potentially grand design with CR. I've heard both good and bad things about it so we'll see.
Crop rotation is just really nice when you can be bothered with trading for all sextants etc. and just want to alch and go for sure and I did run like 3 k ish maps and I can say that crop rotation is just so nice compared to traditional harvest when I only look for yellow lifeforce and if there is no than that harvest is worth nothing to me.
I do not force harvest, use Stream of consciouness, block almost else. And red altars, so do not go for quantity altars. Use a small map so dont waste much time if there is no harwerst. Have around 90-120 quantity on the map. Don not do 3 plot harvest it gives almost nothing. This makes maps faster, no investment. Cant lose money. Yea sometimes get nothing. Onece I got 2 T4 plant with 1 T4 mob and 3 T4mob. Wondering what statistic result would this strategy give. Not tracking it but I feel i get 50+ chaos worth pretty often.
You're probably being inneficient running Harvest on low tier. Unlike Essences it scales up. Beast tier 1-4 is a good low tier friend of low tier essence farms.
So you run yellow sextants and block purple and blue ? Doesnt that give you double yellow plots ? But we dont actually care with the traditional harvest ?
well no, so you just have a higher chance of seeing yellow in traditional. We want to maximize yellow plants due to relative value, and in traditional you dont get screwed over with plots all being yellow.
Great video, its a shame crop rotation is not at least as good as normal because as you said is way more fun. I feel the game trolled me because when i was alq and go with harvest and expedition with crop rotation i got like 4 oshabis in 20 maps. Then i swiched to juicing with sextants and fist 5 maps was pretty good, 13k total, then drop down, not even a sigle boss in 30 maps. Switched to traditional and made double (no bosses still though). Im still changing to cr when i find purple sextants cheap because i love gamba.
Well, ran both 20+ packsize and well rolled 40+ packsize 8 mod maps, results are incomparable. When on 20 packsize I barely break even, on 8 mod maps I make no less than 2.5k lifeforce per map (with avg around 3k-3.7k and record being 5.6k). I wonder what would be the results of running crop rotation with such big mods, maybe it scales further You dive into juicing it.
the core mechanics dont change, you're still gambling on wilt and plot count, but yea sometimes its gonna be a good string of maps and sometimes no. I might return to it but i dont see how simply scaling quant and packsize is going to outdo traditional when the core mechanic of CR revolves around rng.
My own ,albeit limited, findings seem to line up with this. my record was close to 8k yellow lifeforce on a single map with quad gilded scarabs on a 45% packsize map with a ton of eldrich altars and got 2 bosses. But having higher pack size definitively seems to give better payoff
I know this is an older thread but I believe the core mechanics do actually change. With crop rotation every extra monster has a chance to trigger an upgrade. So you’ll have more chances to up your yellows with bad plants and your yellows will be worth more with larger pack size.
In a 5 plot harvest do you prefer taking 2 yellows juiced 3x or 1 yellow juiced 4x? Say with last two yellow plots have 5 t3 plants and 6 t3 plants. Do you sack the 5 to play for tier 4/even more t3 or just take both?
Honestly, crop rotation just fucking sucks. The only good (or fun I would say) is getting 4x Janaars or Namharims in 1 crop. Way too much rng and stars need to align for you to actually cash out properly.
That scenario is in itself already absurdly rare. I think you're correct about it being rng, but over a large sample size I earnestly believe that it is actually not bad and is only slightly behind traditional harvest. Wandering path may actually be more effective than both even.
![Wolfram Physics Project: Working Session Wednesday, Apr. 29, 2020 [Finding Black Hole Structures]](/img/n.gif)
Price of sextants going up. Now for yellow sextants it costs 45-50c investment per maps, over 60 maps it is 2700-3000c . Accounting the fact that they sell them in sextants, not in usual chaos, that trade is rng based (often no response)........
Cripple the profit by a very large margin. Still profitable but not worth the hassle and time loss in trading. Just forget the sextants at this point and just run maps without it.
I love this comparison! A lot of the takes were based on limited data, and crop rotation needs sample size for even a decent take on it
good work, but pls use dark mode
retinas are overrated
I think ggg should make crop rotation more rewarding as is a more engaging mechanic. The game should reward more active playstyle rather than lazy go in, click the bigger blue number, go out. Good video.
Would love to see this in 3.23. I did a tiny sample set of 8 maps each while invitation farming.
Sextants: Magic pack, blue plants, sacred grove, elder map drop.
Atlas: Harvest nodes with blocked blue plants. Only toggling on and off CR.
Scarabs: Rusted
Profit ended up being almost identical in such a tiny sample size. But I'm assuming the rng of CR would eventually lose out to the consistency of traditional. Will keep testing as I go.
Curious on the result. Did you continue the experiment?
Solid work! I think however, the results might have been the other way if you were more lucky with 5-plots on Crop Rotation. From my alch'n'go experience, it's the biggest factor when it comes to the amount of lifeforce.
Would be interesting to compare the lifeforce from Crop Rotation vs Traditional Harvest Farming but exclusively from 5-plot ones.
this is true, though i'm pretty burnt on harvest and getting enough data for 5-plot comparison is a tall order in terms of time investment. I'll leave that up to anyone who's curious enough to try it.
Looking at the data recorded I did a little bit of testing with only total lifeforce by aggregating the plot distributions a bit. What I looked at was the average amount of lifeforce generated by 3,4, and 5 plot harvests respectively in each method. For the traditional method the averages were 2259, 2270, 3604 meanwhile for crop-rotation it was 941, 2115, and 4097. Combining the plot data in both test resulted in 21-5plot, 63-4plot, 36-3plot. Multiplying the averages with the combined plot occurrence data still gives that crop rotation gives less overall lifeforce (~390 lf per map). I think that looking at the numbers with the combined plot occurrences should discount the luck of 5-plots in traditional test and lack of luck in the crop rotation
Hey man, I copied your sheet and repeated the experiment, but without sextants this time, so just rusted scarabs and alch & go. I can send you the sheet if you're interested. Crop rotation had a slightly better yield, but the result wasn't significant so can't say much. CR averaged .13 div/map and tradition .11 div/map so alch and go harvest is probably not the move. I'm gonna run the experiment again but with more of an investment in sextants and higher tier scarabs to see how that fairs. Not too sure how i'm gonna set it up exactly. Probably yellow lifeforce dup and magic pack size sextants for traditional. And blue or purple lifeforce dup and magic pack size sextants for crop rotation. I'm gonna up the scarabs to either polished or gilded and take wandering path with traditional and potentially grand design with CR. I've heard both good and bad things about it so we'll see.
Did you end up getting the data on these experiments? Curious to hear how it went
Crop rotation is just really nice when you can be bothered with trading for all sextants etc. and just want to alch and go for sure and I did run like 3 k ish maps and I can say that crop rotation is just so nice compared to traditional harvest when I only look for yellow lifeforce and if there is no than that harvest is worth nothing to me.
I do not force harvest, use Stream of consciouness, block almost else. And red altars, so do not go for quantity altars. Use a small map so dont waste much time if there is no harwerst. Have around 90-120 quantity on the map. Don not do 3 plot harvest it gives almost nothing. This makes maps faster, no investment. Cant lose money. Yea sometimes get nothing. Onece I got 2 T4 plant with 1 T4 mob and 3 T4mob. Wondering what statistic result would this strategy give. Not tracking it but I feel i get 50+ chaos worth pretty often.
Never used Harvest before... now it's nice to combine with Essences on low tier maps. Selling everything except blue lifeforces to roll bad essences.
You're probably being inneficient running Harvest on low tier. Unlike Essences it scales up. Beast tier 1-4 is a good low tier friend of low tier essence farms.
So you run yellow sextants and block purple and blue ? Doesnt that give you double yellow plots ? But we dont actually care with the traditional harvest ?
well no, so you just have a higher chance of seeing yellow in traditional. We want to maximize yellow plants due to relative value, and in traditional you dont get screwed over with plots all being yellow.
Great video, its a shame crop rotation is not at least as good as normal because as you said is way more fun. I feel the game trolled me because when i was alq and go with harvest and expedition with crop rotation i got like 4 oshabis in 20 maps. Then i swiched to juicing with sextants and fist 5 maps was pretty good, 13k total, then drop down, not even a sigle boss in 30 maps. Switched to traditional and made double (no bosses still though). Im still changing to cr when i find purple sextants cheap because i love gamba.
Well, ran both 20+ packsize and well rolled 40+ packsize 8 mod maps, results are incomparable. When on 20 packsize I barely break even, on 8 mod maps I make no less than 2.5k lifeforce per map (with avg around 3k-3.7k and record being 5.6k). I wonder what would be the results of running crop rotation with such big mods, maybe it scales further You dive into juicing it.
the core mechanics dont change, you're still gambling on wilt and plot count, but yea sometimes its gonna be a good string of maps and sometimes no. I might return to it but i dont see how simply scaling quant and packsize is going to outdo traditional when the core mechanic of CR revolves around rng.
My own ,albeit limited, findings seem to line up with this. my record was close to 8k yellow lifeforce on a single map with quad gilded scarabs on a 45% packsize map with a ton of eldrich altars and got 2 bosses. But having higher pack size definitively seems to give better payoff
I know this is an older thread but I believe the core mechanics do actually change. With crop rotation every extra monster has a chance to trigger an upgrade. So you’ll have more chances to up your yellows with bad plants and your yellows will be worth more with larger pack size.
In a 5 plot harvest do you prefer taking 2 yellows juiced 3x or 1 yellow juiced 4x? Say with last two yellow plots have 5 t3 plants and 6 t3 plants. Do you sack the 5 to play for tier 4/even more t3 or just take both?
in that example i'd take both. I have a personal rule of saccing up to 2 t3s
gotcha thanks!
Without investing, just alc and go. The crop tation be better. Right?
i believe so, it will probably feel better than losing sextant charges on a bad harvest
@@smacdri thank youuu
if you're willing to invest in some rusted scarabs, wandering path + growing hordes is really good
Great video! Thanks for sharing
Do u think it would be to much if they buff crop rotation with like it guarantee´s 1 more plot aswell?
that would make it really powerful
Good work, do you have a atlas tree for traditional harvest+essences?
He showed it in the video right after the first harvest spreadsheet
Great work, ty for the data
Cringe rotation is 100% better for alch and go.
crop rotation is so much faster and you can target the crop you want. crop rotation is superior based on speed alone.
Honestly, crop rotation just fucking sucks. The only good (or fun I would say) is getting 4x Janaars or Namharims in 1 crop. Way too much rng and stars need to align for you to actually cash out properly.
That scenario is in itself already absurdly rare. I think you're correct about it being rng, but over a large sample size I earnestly believe that it is actually not bad and is only slightly behind traditional harvest. Wandering path may actually be more effective than both even.
Well this is dissapointing