Thanks for the shout out, UD! My pleasure making the schematic. Fender really got it right with the Deluxe line of amps. And the old lightning bolt logo is super cool.
You're welcome, Tommy......you're the Rembrandt of schematics in my book :) The 5E3 Deluxe is one of the great amps of all time, and I wish Fender had stuck with the lightning bolt logo, it's really snazzy.
Hi Doug, I thoroughly enjoyed watching this mini documentary on early Fender designs, and seeing Ms. Lopez who actually wired the amp you are repairing... I was getting lost in the rustic scenery of the Rio Grande Valley, imagining myself 150 years ago in the Mexican War, fighting for the annexation of Texas, searching for Santa Anna's Wooden leg...... and then at the end of the video, you pan in on a 1/250,000 scale model of New Jersey! Brought me right back to reality.... Take care, Tom
Hi Uncle Doug, What a excellent video to follow the introduction to this amp in the first video in the series. The capsule historicity of the vintage Fender Tweed amps was wonderful! I really appreciate all the effort you put into your productions. You must love to do research work. To all those who view these videos I would suggest that you like Uncle Doug's videos, if you are not familiar with this it is the thumbs up image that resides just below the video on the right side. Take the time to click it. Uncle Doug is worth it! You can go back and like the other videos you have appreciated. Thank you kindly! Kind Regards, Steve
Thanks so much for your very kind comments, Steve, and your "thumbs up" suggestion. Rusty and I really appreciate any signs of support from our viewers :) I love everything about vintage tube amps.....and really enjoy reading and learning all I can about them :)
Hi Uncle Doug, Well! You are welcome, but the thanks needs to be directed to Rusty and yourself for your production and teaching abilities. And then truly for wanting to share these things with others. By doing this you benefit all of us. Like I said before folks, hit the "Like" thumbs up button if you are appreciative of what Doug accomplishes for us. Kind Regards, Steve
I love how you repeat things as a recap, I find it very helpful. for example when you were explaining the three tweed cabinet types, you went through them, and then recapped with the years. I bet you'd be a great teacher.
you're very welcome. over the last few years I've dealt with some very bad teachers as I was struggling through the learning curve of CNC machining... so its very refreshing to see somebody doing it right :)
My birds been sick and I've been at home, on an Uncle Doug binge. I have to say, you are very talented man. There's just something about the way you explain what you're doing, added with the jokes here and there, that make your videos one of a kind in my opinion. Also, I really enjoy when you record around your area, like you did with the jeep. You seem to know just about everything, about everything! So, hats off to you and Rusty, kind sir. Keep doing what you do best, and Paco and I say thank you.
I'm saddened to hear that Paco is ailing, Bill. Parrots have such complex personalities that we really get attached to them. I am, however, glad to hear that you are spending your time at home watching our videos. Hopefully Paco will be back in perfect health soon. Our best to you both.
Hi Uncle Doug & Rusty, Very nice series, always a treat. I do appreciate the time and effort you put into producing your most excellent amp tutorials and reviews. I hope you and yours are all doing well. Nice Desert footage, beautiful. Looks like Lupe Lopez did some pretty sweet point to point wiring. Take care, be good, C.
Thanks, Cass.....glad you like the videos and the desert excursions. Whenever I was trapped in a classroom trying to teach or learn new concepts, the idea of taking off to the desert always appealed to me :)
THANKS UNCLE DOUG, WAS PLANING A TRIP OF RIO GRAND AREA, BUT YOU COVERED IT FOR ME. SO WITH THIS XTRA MONEY I SAVED I THINK I BUY A NICE TWEED HARVARD, LOVE 12 WATTS! THEY SAY STEVE CROPPER USED A HARVARD FOR MOST OF STAX RECORDINGS, BOOKER T & MG'S. THANKS DOUG I OWE YOU ONE ;)
You're welcome, Dave. Glad you enjoyed the video. I have never personally owned a Fender Harvard amp, but would love to have the opportunity. Best of luck finding one :)
great video Doug... you live in a beautiful part of the country .. rest stops aside. Thanks for connecting a piece of tape to a real person... that really helps my tired old eyes see through the mysts of time.
Very cool history and seeing the gal who built the amp. If you had told me I was looking towards the Huachuca Mountains and Sierra Vista/Fort Huachuca, I'd believe you...looks the same.
Thanks so much for all of your videos!! I'm studying electrical engineering and it's fantastic learning for me to couple with all the maths! Plus I can't wait to start building some of these circuits with these videos as guidance :) Good to see Rusty approved of this amp!
Thanks, Snork. To me, the history of these gems just makes them all the more desirable and precious.....especially when there is a personal, human connection.
Well you my friend, have done it again! Hey that rhymes. As I stated before, I own a 1957 5E3 and will restore it. This series is giving me insight of the era and clues I will need. You know a lot of people have or will have 5E3s,, either originals or clones,so maybe a video on restoration and mods would be very helpful. Such as using a filter choke instead of a dropping resister in the high voltage rail. Another great look at your habitat. Thankz
You're welcome, ATL, and thanks for the nice comments. In my clone of the Model 26 Deluxe, I added a filter choke to the power supply. Check the description of that video for a link to a really nice schematic showing all the changes I made to turn it into a fabulous amp.
I don't know if I say that they are a hard or a little difference between them. Let's watch again 😺. However is pretty cool to see!!! Thanks for sharing master
Hi Uncle Doug & Rusty, I have not watched part 3 yet, so, I am guessing, but, having looked at my 5F1 schematic, it has a 1 meg resistor to ground on input 1, and, if the signal follows the path of least resistance, I'd have to say that most if not all the input signal, would go to ground, (?), plugged into jack 1. Saving part 3 for tonight, June 2nd. Take care, C.
Uncle Doug Hi Uncle Doug & Rusty, hey your a team. Thankyou for the reply and clarifying that, not as hip as you are on amps. I drew out that part of the circuit and will review this evening. Most excellent series as usual. learning something new every day. Don't mean to bug you, only reply if you care to, I know you are busy too. The input jack part of the circuit, I need to study up on, self grounding jacks, etc.. Be good, C.
Amazing vibe to this amp, that personal touch is very special. From a time when people were accountable for their work and as such rose to the job. I wonder if those giant flow soldering machines have any remorse for their disposable output. I once had a lovely closed back 4x8 traynor guitar mate combo that had three inputs and had been rewired as per the input error here. The previous owner later told me he thought it was odd that the amp would have so much more life when a fet buffered pedal was placed in front of it. Great desert shots as always. I guess there must be some real interesting bugs and critters out there to keep Jack entertained?
One thing about Fender, etc , amps is that being designed mainly for Pedal or lap steel guitars, the inputs to the rear make sense, but for the up front, in front Guitar groups the amps really needed the front facing inputs.
Hi Uncle Doug & Rusty, I'm gonna say the resistors are in parallel, correct me if I'm wrong, I need to know, cutting the resistance values in half and half again. I watched an All American Five Radio demo of resistors is parallel, effectively halving their value. Still a lot to learn. Be good, C.
Cass, the problem is the resistance between the signal and ground. It needs to be measurable and fairly consistent for the 3 jacks.....what would it be if you plugged into Input No. 1 ?
What you have shown sure is a good lesson in not taking the tube chart as gospel, even from a brand that we hold in such high esteem. I guess if we found a 5E11 chart in an amp where the chassis followed a 5F11 schematic we could surmise Mr Fender was using up old 5E11 tube chart stock rather than just using them for note paper. But the other way round as here, beats me. I got a little excited during your latest sojourn in the desert. Besides being one of your "rusted on" ampaholics I am also a rail fan and was hoping for a freight train approaching from the other side of those red lights. Maybe next time.
I guess they ran out of 5E11 tube charts and started using the newly printed 5F11's prematurely? It does seem backwards. Glad you enjoy the desert and railroad. I love searching for artifacts along the roadbed and have accumulated a fairly nice collection of discarded items......or "rusty junk", as my wife calls them :)
Wow never seen that 1st Fender. I once owned a one owner Fender Twin Reverb never seen anything but a VFD twice a year . It was the Best Clean Amp & Awesome w/a Boss HM2 Petal I miss that Amp. Fender nailed it.
Very interesting video once again! The tremolo circuit using 1/2 of a triode I'm sure was more economical and saved Fender from using extra tubes...but, you're right...the tremolo on those amps are a little dull. I was never a fan of that design. modulating the bias voltage of the output tubes is something I was never too fond of. The cathodyne phase inverter I'm sure was another method of saving, and avoiding the use of another tube..The negative feedback circuit was also very popular with many hi-fi amplifiers. What's even more interesting is, the women at fender did all the soldering! And if you notice, their soldering technique is flawless. Women tend to be better with a soldering iron. I don't mind admitting it...especially since my better 1/2 is watching me type this response :) Looks like Rusty was on lunch break...the tennis ball didn't phase him :)
Amazing a little piece of tape with Lupe's name stayed where she put it 59 years ago. The problem at the input appears to be the lack of a grid leak resistor, and possibly only 22.6k worth of grid stopper resistance if using input 1. Rusty says "a curve ball....really?" :))
You're right, Andrew. If you use Input No. 1, not only is there no ground reference to bias the first triode, the impedance is infinite.....and since volume is proportional to input impedance, this makes for some real problems if you unplug from Inputs 2 or 3, with your instrument and amp volume set high, and then plug into Input 1. I will demonstrate the problem in Part 3.
Thanks, Ben. We're glad you enjoyed the desert tour. When I built my clone, the literature I studied said that the speaker was either 12" or 15", which stuck in my mind. Now that I have read AmpKing's comments, I wonder about my earlier sources. Regardless, it was a great excuse to use a 15" vintage Alnico speaker in my clone.....and enjoy the benefits of stout bass response.
If you are speaking of the 5E9A Tremolux, it has a 12AX7 phase inverter like that in the 5E3, but utilized differently. I believe you could easily adapt the Tremolux tremolo circuit to the Deluxe.
Around the original fender factory, which is now a furniture mfg, there are a few hardware stores remaining that are still there to this day. I’ve no doubt Leo walked those aisles looking for hardware and tubes.
I assume the chassis were wired in one part of the factory, the cabinets another, and the two brought together off the shelves as the orders came in , or for build for stock. it is possible a slightly older chassis was pulled to fit the F model, or someone misread the chassis stock pile and off it went to the 'wrong' chassis. As it still worked and the buyer never complained no one would no
No doubt some famous musicians visited the Fullerton facility and may have met the workers. What would you give to be able to go back in time and do this......and maybe pick up a few dozen new amps at 1950's prices ???
Another great video, Doug! I especially find the detective work on Lupe Lopez outstanding! BTW, the inputs seem inappropriately tied together; they should be each grounded, right? Thanks for all these videos.
You're welcome, Bart, and thanks for the nice comments. Think what will happen to the impedance and 12AX7 grid bias when someone plugs into Input No. 1...............
+Uncle Doug wow...three 68K resistors in parallel into the plate of the 12AX7. Seems like there are quite a few schematic errors that I have seen you pick up. I guess some of the companies back in the day might have found the error but it was too difficult to change what has been printed.
Yes, they were. If you use input number 1, there is no impedance to ground and no ground reference for the tube grid......other than the guitar volume control, which could vary widely.
What a coup it would be to locate a happy and healthy Lupe and have a conversation with her. On the other hand, my wife did assembly work and I can tell you she has no desire to discuss it.
She would probably be around 100 years old by now, and if she's anything like me, would have a tough time remembering anything further back than last week :)
The resistors on the inputs are all 68k, why? If they're supposed to be inputs with different sonic characteristics shouldn't their resistor values be different as well?
@@UncleDoug Ah i get it now, they're in series resulting in a lower impedance depending on where you plug in resulting in different values going to ground. Quik question, i don't know if you have seen my tube video project already but what use does a oa2 voltage regulator tube have in a circuit? Obviously it regulates voltage but normally i don't see those on amps.
We're at opposite ends of the Rio Grande as far as the Texas border is concerned. I'll toss a note in a bottle and it should be down there in a few weeks :)
The mistake is a missing grid resistor to ground (usually 1 Mega Ohms), to keep the tube properly polarized with any signal that may go into it. Without that resistor, the input is basically "floating", and large-amplitude signals can throw it off it's operating point! This causes a weird distortion/compression effect where, the harder you play, the more fuzzy and compressed it gets, and then if you play softly at this point, it slowly comes back to a clean sound as the tube gets polarized again. Nothing exactly harmful to the tube, but can be rather annoying to deal with.
Excellent analysis, BC. I assume they considered the guitar volume control to be the missing link in this arrangement, but its value could vary widely and this doesn't seem like a good design to me.
Man oh man that terlet and brings back memories, reminds me of our first in house throne. I believe it was a 1956A2 American Standard and that's how the company became known as American Standard. Because before that one it was just the 1955A1 American. Then along came the A2 and made American the Standard. Anyway my dad who so proud of it he invited the neighbors over to see it. No more cold winter night out house shrinkage. If you know what I mean? There was a stack of old musty Popular Mechanic magazines in there and He couldn't read a lick? Crazy huh? I had no idea John Mellencamp was one of your neighbors. DO ya'll ever get together an Jam on Friday nite's? And all this time I thought he lived in Wisconsin or Illinois or Maryland somewhere around there. Now if we can just nail down who lives in the pumpkin house?
Wow, your historical knowledge of toilets is impressive, MM. I prefer the old ones that used several gallons to flush. At least you knew for sure there would be nothing "left behind" to embarrass you :) John is always welcome here, as long as he brings the beer and steak bones :)
Maybe the disappearance of the lightning-bolt logo had something to do with Fender's shift from being simply an amp and pickup manufacturer to selling its own guitars?
Ok, without reading anyone's comments, and taking my level two tube amp training skills...... Would not the 68k's all be in parallel, leading to an input impedance of only 22K? That's awfully low, Usually the goal is somewhere from 47 to 100K impedance for a guitar amp. I know one of my amps in Input 2, where the input resistance is halved, really breaks up early with any guitar with even moderate pickups. Lupe Lopez is said to be the best solder queen of the early years. Collectors look for that.
The impedance you need to worry about is the impedance to ground, DK. It needs to be reasonably consistent between the three input jacks and there has to be some ground reference for the 12AX7 grid bias. The 68K's are simply grid stopper resistors. What is the RTG when you plug into Input No. 1 ? Yes, indeed, Lupe was the queen bee of the Fullerton shop.
So the answer is the missing 1meg (ish) resistor to ground on the input... Most amps have them. I know it's a standard thing, but without it, what actually happens?
If a guitar is plugged into the jack with the missing resistor, then the volume pot in the guitar provides the bias reference and establishes the impedance for the input (1) circuit. Since volume pots vary, then the function of Input 1 will vary from guitar to guitar and with the volume setting, and may result in excessive volume compared to the other two inputs. It's just not a good idea to leave off part of a circuit and rely on highly variable equipment to make up for the deficiencies.
I hope she didn't go to Lupe doing all that soldering. lmao Just wondering, how old is Rusty now? Is he doing ok? I haven't seen swamp coolers in many, many years. Do you use them also?
Rusty is 18+ years old, Robert, but still pretty spry.....as long as the camera is not aimed at him. He gets excited when it's meal time and runs around like a puppy. No, we have refrigeration. It's become too humid in this area for the swamp coolers to work properly.
I have been told that Leo Fender was kind of jealous of Magnatone's vibrato circuit...as Magnatones were also made in California and had a patented vibrato. As such, he would often use the word "vibrato" to describe tremolo. Hence this amp being call a "vibro"-lux. Also he would label channels offering tremolo the "vibrato channel". Then when he manufactured a pitch-shifting mechanism on his guitars, of course he had to call that the "vibrato arm" to keep the deception going.
Right on about the circuits. I have a super clean (no pun intended) 1960 brownface Super with a 6G4 tube chart (goo.gl/CnrAkr). But the tube complement is closer to the future 6G4A (but not exactly). It also has most of the 6G4A circuit changes, but not all, and some that match neither. It seems like the circuits were in constant motion, and they occasionally just bumped the "version". Also, thanks for the scenery. I used to spend summer vacations in Tucson, so you have to believe I enjoyed the scenery. ;)
I tend to take the tube charts with a grain of salt. I think the date codes (two letters) are pretty accurate because they're hand stamped on the chart during assembly.....but the circuit data is not too reliable, as we have both seen.
That there is one of those 5 Star desert rest stops I hear about on occasion. Not much for modesty, but who in their right mind is gonna be out there looking anyways?
I agree that the Fender circuits were quite effective and clever, Mr. W. I am entirely self-taught, both by study via Internet videos and sites, as well as personal experience and experimentation.
Excellent video Uncle Doug ! You create the platinum standard for UA-cam videos and tube guitar amp education !!!
Wow, thanks so much, Donald. Rusty and I really appreciate your kind comments.
Thanks for the shout out, UD! My pleasure making the schematic. Fender really got it right with the Deluxe line of amps. And the old lightning bolt logo is super cool.
You're welcome, Tommy......you're the Rembrandt of schematics in my book :) The 5E3 Deluxe is one of the great amps of all time, and I wish Fender had stuck with the lightning bolt logo, it's really snazzy.
Hi Doug, I thoroughly enjoyed watching this mini documentary on early Fender designs, and seeing Ms. Lopez who actually wired the amp you are repairing... I was getting lost in the rustic scenery of the Rio Grande Valley, imagining myself 150 years ago in the Mexican War, fighting for the annexation of Texas, searching for Santa Anna's Wooden leg...... and then at the end of the video, you pan in on a 1/250,000 scale model of New Jersey! Brought me right back to reality.... Take care, Tom
You should be a novelist, Tom.....your imagery and irony are exceptional :) Glad you enjoyed the video. Thanks for your very nice comments.
Hi Uncle Doug,
What a excellent video to follow the introduction to this amp in the first video in the series. The capsule historicity of the vintage Fender Tweed amps was wonderful! I really appreciate all the effort you put into your productions. You must love to do research work.
To all those who view these videos I would suggest that you like Uncle Doug's videos, if you are not familiar with this it is the thumbs up image that resides just below the video on the right side. Take the time to click it. Uncle Doug is worth it! You can go back and like the other videos you have appreciated.
Thank you kindly!
Kind Regards,
Steve
Thanks so much for your very kind comments, Steve, and your "thumbs up" suggestion. Rusty and I really appreciate any signs of support from our viewers :) I love everything about vintage tube amps.....and really enjoy reading and learning all I can about them :)
Hi Uncle Doug,
Well! You are welcome, but the thanks needs to be directed to Rusty and yourself for your production and teaching abilities. And then truly for wanting to share these things with others. By doing this you benefit all of us.
Like I said before folks, hit the "Like" thumbs up button if you are appreciative of what Doug accomplishes for us.
Kind Regards,
Steve
Thanks again, Steve :)
I love how you repeat things as a recap, I find it very helpful. for example when you were explaining the three tweed cabinet types, you went through them, and then recapped with the years. I bet you'd be a great teacher.
Thanks so much for your very nice comments, Nicholas. I actually was a math and science teacher for almost 20 years :)
you're very welcome. over the last few years I've dealt with some very bad teachers as I was struggling through the learning curve of CNC machining... so its very refreshing to see somebody doing it right :)
Great tour of the area at the end!
Thanks, AW. Glad you liked it.
My birds been sick and I've been at home, on an Uncle Doug binge. I have to say, you are very talented man. There's just something about the way you explain what you're doing, added with the jokes here and there, that make your videos one of a kind in my opinion. Also, I really enjoy when you record around your area, like you did with the jeep. You seem to know just about everything, about everything! So, hats off to you and Rusty, kind sir. Keep doing what you do best, and Paco and I say thank you.
I'm saddened to hear that Paco is ailing, Bill. Parrots have such complex personalities that we really get attached to them. I am, however, glad to hear that you are spending your time at home watching our videos. Hopefully Paco will be back in perfect health soon. Our best to you both.
+Uncle Doug Thanks, Doug. And good health to you and the rest of your family, as well.
Likewise, Bill and Paco.
Hi Uncle Doug & Rusty, Very nice series, always a treat. I do appreciate the time and effort you put into producing your most excellent amp tutorials and reviews. I hope you and yours are all doing well. Nice Desert footage, beautiful. Looks like Lupe Lopez did some pretty sweet point to point wiring. Take care, be good, C.
Thanks, Cass.....glad you like the videos and the desert excursions. Whenever I was trapped in a classroom trying to teach or learn new concepts, the idea of taking off to the desert always appealed to me :)
Great video Doug, many thanks! I always appreciate Rusty's cameos, Jack's too.
You're welcome, SS. They're such hams that it's hard to keep them out of the videos :)
LOL.
Haha
Wow awesome video again Doug, looking forward to part 3! Thx 4 sharing!
You're welcome, Tony, and thanks for the nice comments. Part 3 has been posted.
very nice! what a unique piece of history. can't wait to see the next video
Thanks, Steve. I just uploaded the final episode (Part 3).
Thanks for the Clarification. I wondered why Fender offered both the Tremolux & Vibrolux amps during similar time frames.
You're welcome, Joe. They really are two rather different amps, built for sale at two different price levels.
Really enjoying this series Doug .. also the desert views and the train!
We're glad to hear that, HT, and really appreciate your nice comments.
Thumbs up for this enlightening video. Thanks Uncle Doug!
You're welcome, Rick.
Great work again Doug.
Thanks, Andy :)
Thanks for the video Doug and the Rio Grande view. All the best .
You're welcome, Colin......likewise :)
THANKS UNCLE DOUG, WAS PLANING A TRIP OF RIO GRAND AREA, BUT YOU COVERED IT FOR ME. SO WITH THIS XTRA MONEY I SAVED I THINK I BUY A NICE TWEED HARVARD, LOVE 12 WATTS! THEY SAY STEVE CROPPER USED A HARVARD FOR MOST OF STAX RECORDINGS, BOOKER T & MG'S. THANKS DOUG I OWE YOU ONE ;)
You're welcome, Dave. Glad you enjoyed the video. I have never personally owned a Fender Harvard amp, but would love to have the opportunity. Best of luck finding one :)
Thanks for this video and all the others! I very much enjoy them.
You're welcome, Frank :)
great video Doug... you live in a beautiful part of the country .. rest stops aside.
Thanks for connecting a piece of tape to a real person... that really helps my tired old eyes see through the mysts of time.
You're welcome, CD.....glad you enjoyed the desert and meeting Lupe.
Very cool history and seeing the gal who built the amp. If you had told me I was looking towards the Huachuca Mountains and Sierra Vista/Fort Huachuca, I'd believe you...looks the same.
Thanks, AJ. Agreed, our terrain is identical to the area you mentioned.
Thanks so much for all of your videos!! I'm studying electrical engineering and it's fantastic learning for me to couple with all the maths! Plus I can't wait to start building some of these circuits with these videos as guidance :) Good to see Rusty approved of this amp!
You're welcome, Luke. Best of luck with your studies and ensuing career.
Good video again thanks
Bertus
You're welcome, Bertus :)
another great video - tube amps and a history lesson thrown it!!
Thanks, Snork. To me, the history of these gems just makes them all the more desirable and precious.....especially when there is a personal, human connection.
that desert sky was like the start of The Simpsons
I tend to identify with Homer :)
Excelente video, Tío Doug.
El paisaje del desierto es similar al de mi provincia Mendoza (Arg). Saludos!!
Well you my friend, have done it again! Hey that rhymes. As I stated before, I own a 1957 5E3 and will restore it. This series is giving me insight of the era and clues I will need. You know a lot of people have or will have 5E3s,, either originals or clones,so maybe a video on restoration and mods would be very helpful. Such as using a filter choke instead of a dropping resister in the high voltage rail. Another great look at your habitat. Thankz
You're welcome, ATL, and thanks for the nice comments. In my clone of the Model 26 Deluxe, I added a filter choke to the power supply. Check the description of that video for a link to a really nice schematic showing all the changes I made to turn it into a fabulous amp.
I don't know if I say that they are a hard or a little difference between them. Let's watch again 😺.
However is pretty cool to see!!!
Thanks for sharing master
You're welcome, Humberto :)
Hi Uncle Doug & Rusty, I have not watched part 3 yet, so, I am guessing, but, having looked at my 5F1 schematic, it has a 1 meg resistor to ground on input 1, and, if the signal follows the path of least resistance, I'd have to say that most if not all the input signal, would go to ground, (?), plugged into jack 1. Saving part 3 for tonight, June 2nd. Take care, C.
More modern amp circuits have the 1 meg to ground, like your amp, Cass. When Input No. 1 is used, there is no connection to ground in the amp circuit.
Uncle Doug Hi Uncle Doug & Rusty, hey your a team. Thankyou for the reply and clarifying that, not as hip as you are on amps. I drew out that part of the circuit and will review this evening. Most excellent series as usual. learning something new every day. Don't mean to bug you, only reply if you care to, I know you are busy too. The input jack part of the circuit, I need to study up on, self grounding jacks, etc.. Be good, C.
You're welcome
Thanks for breaking down the difference in the amplifier circuits! I hope Rusty's ball dries out soon!
You're welcome, SSG. He kind of likes the tennis ball damp.....easier on the gums :)
Amazing vibe to this amp, that personal touch is very special. From a time when people were accountable for their work and as such rose to the job. I wonder if those giant flow soldering machines have any remorse for their disposable output. I once had a lovely closed back 4x8 traynor guitar mate combo that had three inputs and had been rewired as per the input error here. The previous owner later told me he thought it was odd that the amp would have so much more life when a fet buffered pedal was placed in front of it. Great desert shots as always. I guess there must be some real interesting bugs and critters out there to keep Jack entertained?
Thanks so much, PJ. I'm glad you enjoyed meeting Ms. Lopez. It's a rare opportunity to actually see the artist who created a masterpiece :)
Thanks Uncle Doug!
You're welcome, TB :)
One thing about Fender, etc , amps is that being designed mainly for Pedal or lap steel guitars, the inputs to the rear make sense, but for the up front, in front Guitar groups the amps really needed the front facing inputs.
Thanks for your input, HP.
Doug, I have a bunch of old Fender tube charts if you ever need one for a restoration. I have this 5F11 in my stash.
Wow, what a great stash to have. I'll check the tube charts in my Fender amps and let you know if any are missing. Thanks !!
What a beautiful area you live, Uncle Doug. Do also look at the stars under the undoubtedly dark skies?
Thanks, Jami. Yes, the skies are beautiful both day and night.
Hi Uncle Doug & Rusty, I'm gonna say the resistors are in parallel, correct me if I'm wrong, I need to know, cutting the resistance values in half and half again. I watched an All American Five Radio demo of resistors is parallel, effectively halving their value. Still a lot to learn. Be good, C.
Cass, the problem is the resistance between the signal and ground. It needs to be measurable and fairly consistent for the 3 jacks.....what would it be if you plugged into Input No. 1 ?
I love the tour of the Rio grande. I'm assuming that rest stop was set up because there are no bushes to go behind?
Glad you enjoyed it, Tim. Most likely ;)
What you have shown sure is a good lesson in not taking the tube chart as gospel, even from a brand that we hold in such high esteem. I guess if we found a 5E11 chart in an amp where the chassis followed a 5F11 schematic we could surmise Mr Fender was using up old 5E11 tube chart stock rather than just using them for note paper. But the other way round as here, beats me. I got a little excited during your latest sojourn in the desert. Besides being one of your "rusted on" ampaholics I am also a rail fan and was hoping for a freight train approaching from the other side of those red lights. Maybe next time.
I guess they ran out of 5E11 tube charts and started using the newly printed 5F11's prematurely? It does seem backwards. Glad you enjoy the desert and railroad. I love searching for artifacts along the roadbed and have accumulated a fairly nice collection of discarded items......or "rusty junk", as my wife calls them :)
At 17:21, The roadside rest area. Hilarious!
Glad you liked it, WJ :)
The "Lupe" thing is cool. I have a '63 Strat with "Mary" signature on the pick-guard shield (Mary Lemus).
It's definitely nice to have a personal connection with the people who built your gear.
Wow never seen that 1st Fender. I once owned a one owner Fender Twin Reverb never seen anything but a VFD twice a year . It was the Best Clean Amp & Awesome w/a Boss HM2 Petal I miss that Amp. Fender nailed it.
It sounds like a great amp, W4.
Very interesting video once again! The tremolo circuit using 1/2 of a triode I'm sure was more economical and saved Fender from using extra tubes...but, you're right...the tremolo on those amps are a little dull. I was never a fan of that design. modulating the bias voltage of the output tubes is something I was never too fond of. The cathodyne phase inverter I'm sure was another method of saving, and avoiding the use of another tube..The negative feedback circuit was also very popular with many hi-fi amplifiers. What's even more interesting is, the women at fender did all the soldering! And if you notice, their soldering technique is flawless. Women tend to be better with a soldering iron. I don't mind admitting it...especially since my better 1/2 is watching me type this response :) Looks like Rusty was on lunch break...the tennis ball didn't phase him :)
It's good to hear from you, Frank. Thanks for your knowledgeable input.
Amazing a little piece of tape with Lupe's name stayed where she put it 59 years ago. The problem at the input appears to be the lack of a grid leak resistor, and possibly only 22.6k worth of grid stopper resistance if using input 1. Rusty says "a curve ball....really?" :))
You're right, Andrew. If you use Input No. 1, not only is there no ground reference to bias the first triode, the impedance is infinite.....and since volume is proportional to input impedance, this makes for some real problems if you unplug from Inputs 2 or 3, with your instrument and amp volume set high, and then plug into Input 1. I will demonstrate the problem in Part 3.
Great video uncle Doug ! You make me laugh again ! :D
Thanks, Gerard. That's good to hear. Laughter is the best medicine :)
Desert views amazing !
Glad you like them, Gerard :)
Nice to hear you again -- I think the model 26 had a 10" speaker ?
And nice to see the desert !
Thanks, Ben. We're glad you enjoyed the desert tour. When I built my clone, the literature I studied said that the speaker was either 12" or 15", which stuck in my mind. Now that I have read AmpKing's comments, I wonder about my earlier sources. Regardless, it was a great excuse to use a 15" vintage Alnico speaker in my clone.....and enjoy the benefits of stout bass response.
wow did you find here inside the amp
Could the tremolo circuit of the Tremolux be added to a 5E3 or doesnt it work because of the different phase inverter?
If you are speaking of the 5E9A Tremolux, it has a 12AX7 phase inverter like that in the 5E3, but utilized differently. I believe you could easily adapt the Tremolux tremolo circuit to the Deluxe.
The input shares the same ground? That's the problem. Now why would the bias be connected to the tremolo?
That's how the tremolo works.....it modulates the bias of the output tubes.
Uncle Doug Really? You putting me on….
Yep.....I wouldn't lie about anything as important as Tremolo :)
Uncle Doug Wow learned something thanks Uncle Doug.
You're welcome, W4. If you'd like to learn more about Tremolo, please watch the two videos I posted on the subject.
amazing designs on these amps I can say that they had Gibson beat around this time especially with speaker size at least the 1s I have seen and own
I agree, Joe. They are true classics.
Around the original fender factory, which is now a furniture mfg, there are a few hardware stores remaining that are still there to this day. I’ve no doubt Leo walked those aisles looking for hardware and tubes.
I can see him pushing his shopping cart and grabbing up bargains :)
I assume the chassis were wired in one part of the factory, the cabinets another, and the two brought together off the shelves as the orders came in , or for build for stock. it is possible a slightly older chassis was pulled to fit the F model, or someone misread the chassis stock pile and off it went to the 'wrong' chassis. As it still worked and the buyer never complained no one would no
That sounds feasible, HP.
..love Rusty...💛🍁🌾🧡🦊❤️
Thanks, Ben. So so we :)
I like the Desert tours - does rusty go with you?
He assumes that any vehicle intends to take him to the veterinarian's office.....so he generally hides when I am preparing to leave.
Across the Rio Grande-io. Across the lazy river. I like to think a young Jerry Garcia would have had a nice chat with Lupe, had their paths crossed.
No doubt some famous musicians visited the Fullerton facility and may have met the workers. What would you give to be able to go back in time and do this......and maybe pick up a few dozen new amps at 1950's prices ???
Oh man ... I'd do quite a bit. :)
Another great video, Doug! I especially find the detective work on Lupe Lopez outstanding! BTW, the inputs seem inappropriately tied together; they should be each grounded, right? Thanks for all these videos.
You're welcome, Bart, and thanks for the nice comments. Think what will happen to the impedance and 12AX7 grid bias when someone plugs into Input No. 1...............
+Uncle Doug wow...three 68K resistors in parallel into the plate of the 12AX7. Seems like there are quite a few schematic errors that I have seen you pick up. I guess some of the companies back in the day might have found the error but it was too difficult to change what has been printed.
Perhaps the amps in the old days were built for pickups and uses that no longer exist. For modern use, they require some modification.
7:30 : hopefully the inputs were not soldered the way they were drawn
Yes, they were. If you use input number 1, there is no impedance to ground and no ground reference for the tube grid......other than the guitar volume control, which could vary widely.
The knobs go to 12! Cool!
Yep.....better than Spinal Tap :)
What a coup it would be to locate a happy and healthy Lupe and have a conversation with her. On the other hand, my wife did assembly work and I can tell you she has no desire to discuss it.
She would probably be around 100 years old by now, and if she's anything like me, would have a tough time remembering anything further back than last week :)
Boy, my math (regarding Lupe's age) really deteriorates as the night wears on. :-)
For all we know, she is still up and running, Dave.....preserved by all those solder fumes :)
The resistors on the inputs are all 68k, why? If they're supposed to be inputs with different sonic characteristics shouldn't their resistor values be different as well?
They are different, due to the way they are wired, FJ. See my video on the Fender Input Circuit.
@@UncleDoug Ah i get it now, they're in series resulting in a lower impedance depending on where you plug in resulting in different values going to ground.
Quik question, i don't know if you have seen my tube video project already but what use does a oa2 voltage regulator tube have in a circuit?
Obviously it regulates voltage but normally i don't see those on amps.
I would imagine with the special DC bias supply that a new power transformer would be very expensive.
Not terribly so, D20. ClassicTone makes quite a few reasonably priced PT's with a bias winding.
do you live in the rio grande valley? thats where I'm from and I've been watching your videos trying to learn your trait for a good while!
Yes, I do. The videos are taken around Santa Teresa, NM.
awe man! i live in texas! i guess the lake goes that far north and i didn't even think about it lol
Actually, Santa Teresa is quite near the Mexican border, Cutberto. Not too far north.
oh really? i live in south texas bout 4 hours south of san antonio
We're at opposite ends of the Rio Grande as far as the Texas border is concerned. I'll toss a note in a bottle and it should be down there in a few weeks :)
The mistake is a missing grid resistor to ground (usually 1 Mega Ohms), to keep the tube properly polarized with any signal that may go into it. Without that resistor, the input is basically "floating", and large-amplitude signals can throw it off it's operating point!
This causes a weird distortion/compression effect where, the harder you play, the more fuzzy and compressed it gets, and then if you play softly at this point, it slowly comes back to a clean sound as the tube gets polarized again.
Nothing exactly harmful to the tube, but can be rather annoying to deal with.
Excellent analysis, BC. I assume they considered the guitar volume control to be the missing link in this arrangement, but its value could vary widely and this doesn't seem like a good design to me.
Man oh man that terlet and brings back memories, reminds me of our first in house throne. I believe it was a 1956A2 American Standard and that's how the company became known as American Standard. Because before that one it was just the 1955A1 American. Then along came the A2 and made American the Standard. Anyway my dad who so proud of it he invited the neighbors over to see it. No more cold winter night out house shrinkage. If you know what I mean? There was a stack of old musty Popular Mechanic magazines in there and He couldn't read a lick? Crazy huh?
I had no idea John Mellencamp was one of your neighbors. DO ya'll ever get together an Jam on Friday nite's? And all this time I thought he lived in Wisconsin or Illinois or Maryland somewhere around there. Now if we can just nail down who lives in the pumpkin house?
Wow, your historical knowledge of toilets is impressive, MM. I prefer the old ones that used several gallons to flush. At least you knew for sure there would be nothing "left behind" to embarrass you :) John is always welcome here, as long as he brings the beer and steak bones :)
Maybe the disappearance of the lightning-bolt logo had something to do with Fender's shift from being simply an amp and pickup manufacturer to selling its own guitars?
That's an interesting suggestion, Leo. You may be right.
love the pink house want to paint my house pink
I kind of liked the orange myself ;)
Ok, without reading anyone's comments, and taking my level two tube amp training skills...... Would not the 68k's all be in parallel, leading to an input impedance of only 22K? That's awfully low, Usually the goal is somewhere from 47 to 100K impedance for a guitar amp. I know one of my amps in Input 2, where the input resistance is halved, really breaks up early with any guitar with even moderate pickups.
Lupe Lopez is said to be the best solder queen of the early years. Collectors look for that.
The impedance you need to worry about is the impedance to ground, DK. It needs to be reasonably consistent between the three input jacks and there has to be some ground reference for the 12AX7 grid bias. The 68K's are simply grid stopper resistors. What is the RTG when you plug into Input No. 1 ? Yes, indeed, Lupe was the queen bee of the Fullerton shop.
So the answer is the missing 1meg (ish) resistor to ground on the input... Most amps have them. I know it's a standard thing, but without it, what actually happens?
If a guitar is plugged into the jack with the missing resistor, then the volume pot in the guitar provides the bias reference and establishes the impedance for the input (1) circuit. Since volume pots vary, then the function of Input 1 will vary from guitar to guitar and with the volume setting, and may result in excessive volume compared to the other two inputs. It's just not a good idea to leave off part of a circuit and rely on highly variable equipment to make up for the deficiencies.
I hope she didn't go to Lupe doing all that soldering. lmao Just wondering, how old is Rusty now? Is he doing ok? I haven't seen swamp coolers in many, many years. Do you use them also?
Rusty is 18+ years old, Robert, but still pretty spry.....as long as the camera is not aimed at him. He gets excited when it's meal time and runs around like a puppy. No, we have refrigeration. It's become too humid in this area for the swamp coolers to work properly.
I have been told that Leo Fender was kind of jealous of Magnatone's vibrato circuit...as Magnatones were also made in California and had a patented vibrato.
As such, he would often use the word "vibrato" to describe tremolo. Hence this amp being call a "vibro"-lux. Also he would label channels offering tremolo the "vibrato channel".
Then when he manufactured a pitch-shifting mechanism on his guitars, of course he had to call that the "vibrato arm" to keep the deception going.
That model 26 looks like a shoeshine kit.
Right on about the circuits. I have a super clean (no pun intended) 1960 brownface Super with a 6G4 tube chart (goo.gl/CnrAkr). But the tube complement is closer to the future 6G4A (but not exactly). It also has most of the 6G4A circuit changes, but not all, and some that match neither. It seems like the circuits were in constant motion, and they occasionally just bumped the "version".
Also, thanks for the scenery. I used to spend summer vacations in Tucson, so you have to believe I enjoyed the scenery. ;)
I tend to take the tube charts with a grain of salt. I think the date codes (two letters) are pretty accurate because they're hand stamped on the chart during assembly.....but the circuit data is not too reliable, as we have both seen.
That there is one of those 5 Star desert rest stops I hear about on occasion. Not much for modesty, but who in their right mind is gonna be out there looking anyways?
greetings uncle doug of youtubeland
Likewise, Joe :)
Didja see any roadrunner birds attacking rattlesnakes?
No, I guess I missed out.
come for the Doug, stay for the Rusty
W. C. Fields used to say that you should never work with kids or dogs.....they will always upstage you :)
Leo was notorious for using up tube charts he had printed, even if they weren't correct. He was cheap.
I guess as long as the tube chart somewhat resembled the actual tube complement, it was usable :)
57 fender for a Chevy? Rusty cannot eat a tennis ball, why bother! Rusty, the tremolo tail chaser.
I wish I had the car for the fender to fit. It's about the only thing that Rusty won't eat. It would be a very slow, swampy tremolo :)
Lupe fufuentis
That was her maiden name, Geno.
These schematics are genius, Leo or who ever designed this stuff were in another zone kinda like you uncle Doug. Where did you learn this stuff?
I agree that the Fender circuits were quite effective and clever, Mr. W. I am entirely self-taught, both by study via Internet videos and sites, as well as personal experience and experimentation.