Hypori has to be my favorite CIS Foundry world. Especially with it being the introduction to Grievous in a badass and terrifying way. Absolutely amazing!
I love Hypori for two things : 1, it's here that Grievous canonicaly makes his first appearance, and show how brutal he is. 2, in Star Wars : Empire at War, Forces of Corruption, Hypori is a nice map to play on and you could get CIS unit when you build a droid factory on it. I loved to spam herds of B1 against the Rebels and Imperials.
It was actually Mark II Destroyer Droids that you unlock when gaining Hypori during the Forces of Corruption campaign, no B1 Battle Droids outside of certain mods.
@@manofmercy1500 Nah, it aged well, it's just that it has felt more enhanced just like modded games like Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II - The Sith Lords (Restored Content Mod), Deus Ex (GMDX and The Nameless Mod), FreeSpace 2 (Port+Silent Threat: Reborn and Blue Planet), and SWAT 4+The Stetchkov Syndicate (Elite Force).
We would have seen the beginning industrialization of Utapau enforced by the cis if those ruthless disney tyrants didnt delete the true seventh season for their own shitty season. Wouldve been epic.
So I guess this is why the Separatists were trying to capture Ringo Vinda back then, that massive space station can become a shipyard for the Separatists Navy and its world most likely capable of producing massive amount of Battle Droids as well. Speaking of which, how did the Republic take Ringo Vinda back? Last time I checked, they were forced to withdraw because of Tup's chip ended up malfunction. Not to mention that Admiral Trench was in command before being reassigned to Anaxes as well.
Maybe not on the scale of geonsis or their foundry worlds. Many planets would have had some portion of their industry working on war materials. Not enough to get labeled a factory world but it would have helped
I feel that since the cis was designed to fail we never got to see what they were capable of. Imagine what could have happened if palpatine wasn’t involved. The tactics that the cis would potentially have used is terrifying.
Without Palpy the CIS situation would be a lot different. For one the corps would be selling heavily to both sides so droids would have been used massively by both.
In this universe of space wizards, fast aging clones and self aware Droid armies the thing I find the most unrealistic is that the galactic wide war lasted less then 4 years
You do a list of the bloodiest battles throughout the eras. From the Old Republic, Clone Wars, Galactic Civil War, and so on. List them in terms of casualties, destruction, ramifications, and how it affected the faction that lost the battle(s).
Me before watching the video: If I remember the video you did about the Battle of Hypori a while back, you mentioned how Hypori became like a second Geonosis so I'm guessing that's the one. Me after watching the video: Okay, I was wrong it was a bunch of different worlds. But that begs the question if the CIS controlled so many more mech worlds, then how come the Republic which controlled less mech worlds had more industrial might? Was it a situation of quantity over quality, where the Republic controlled less but the stuff they produced was just better? Also, 9:42-9:48: I feel like the shutting down of the Ddroid army also played a role in this too.
Looks like it. Plus, there's Palpatine secretly giving the Republic forces a subtle edge on their tech and methods. And I wonder why people still sympathize with the Seppers... though I sympathize with them wanting them to at least have some spotlight storytelling that TCW 2008 lacked.
They had a massive army but they still need to conquer trillions of people and their planetary defense forces on the ground and in space. That kind of grinding war even for a droid military is gonna be hell on logistics
All those Mech worlds I already know because I played Republic At War and the 2002 Clone Wars game also read the Boba Fett book where he went to Xagobah.
There would have been plenty of Droid factory worlds. The needless overemphasis on Geonosis was always a bit strange. Star Wars typically has problems grasping the very concept of a galactic war, it seems, both in terms of the numbers and the logistical scale of the procurement arrangements involved. The most obvious example of that would be the failure to define exact Clone numbers in any kind of convincing way. Several million clones are just not going to cut it - however 'elite' - in a galactic scale war. Anyone with a modicum of common sense would realise that after giving a mere cursory glance to the map of the Star Wars galaxy - all ~120,000 lightyears of it across. The idea of a handful of factory worlds hard-carrying the entire Separatist war machine, could be reasoned in terms of being the biggest factories they have, although it should always have been pointed out that the CIS has _hundreds if not thousands_ of more average scale factories with a rate of production which was considerably lower than Geonosis, Hypori or Mechis III etc. All the same, 'lower production rates' from even 'average droid factories' _should_ look more like millions being churned out of _all of them_ (each and every one) Unless specifically interrupted by the Jedi and Republic invading them, the production rates that even the more unspectacular factories would have, should be rather impressive regardless. It is canonical that during the Second Battle of Geonosis during the Clone Wars, that even while under full-scale attack the different Droid factory operations on Geonosis were absolutely continuing their work until destroyed. This implies two things about other factories; if well-supplied they'd just keep churning out those droids unless shut down/destroyed, and that there was no particular reason why the replacement levels in the Droid Army couldn't be met on a literally daily basis. This doesn't _necessarily_ mean, I must add, that severe losses to Droids on the frontlines of the actively raging war would be immediately able to be replaced. Not every Separatist army was fortune enough to be positioned right in front of a Droid factory with reinforcements literally marching off the production line into their ranks. But if you think about it, wouldn't the Separatists have more prefabricated forward operating Droid factories to replace losses? In the 2002 Clone Wars game on Gamecube, for instance, definitely put together with the direct input of the Lucasarts of that time, the CIS have these squat droid factories which NPC AT-TE walkers which you are guarding with your Republic Fighter Tank, can take out with their heavier guns. It's not canonical and yes it is a game mechanic, though it always made sense to me that there'd be these modestly sized (still pretty decent) arrays of like 3 or 4 small warehouse sized droid factories cranking out droid tanks and likely infantry units (though in the game, it's basically an array of light and heavy tanks, because you will be in a tank for a lot of the game, most fighting, well, other tanks) I think Lucasarts was playing around with the ideas of droid factories and droid dispensers (for the latter, see the good old MTT or the literal Droid dispensers in Republic Commando 2004) Again, the latter (Republic Commando) is no longer strictly canonical (in spite of Delta Squad being made canonical again in The Clone Wars, in their brief appearances) I would just argue that realistically, the CIS could never normally lose. The only argument I'd accept for the CIS losing is because of Palpatine heavily nerfing them or twisting the war how he wanted. Which, is obviously what did happen. In-fighting and general incompetence and cowardice amongst the Separatist Council was also a problem, though _even by accident_ the CIS should be winning countless battles just through sheer weight of firepower and the ridiculous numerical advantage they'd almost always have. They won't match Clones on skill though it starts to become very immersion breaking when the Republic finds itself in the position to kamikaze dying Venators into Lucrehulks (see Ryloth Arc; see Anakin's antics) Now, yes, that is Anakin (and yes, it was pretty much copied from the 2005 PS2 ROTS game cinematic where a Venator crashes into a Lucrehulk's core ship over Coruscant) Jedi do achieve interesting things. However, when the Republic is depicted as being the one to do that, and the CIS is almost never shown to use written off ships as rams, it starts to get bizarre. There should be literally hundreds of incidents where a half-destroyed CIS ship is just told to ram into the nearest Republic capital ship to do as much damage as possible. After all, over Saleucami, when Dooku was ordered to kill Ventress by Sidious (Dooku being on Serenno, Ventress actually fighting over Saleucami and Sidious being on Coruscant, as this is happening), the CIS warship Ventress ended up crash landing in (pursued and engaged in lightsaber combat by Anakin and Obi-Wan), was ordered to be fired on by the guns of the rest of the CIS fleet present, heedless of other targets. Now, sure, that is a more specific example whereby the Dark Lord of the Sith himself intervened to stop Dooku's protégé from becoming too powerful (Palpatine feared Dooku and Ventress working together to kill him, which is absolutely canon and was possible in spite of how this might upset some Sidious fans/stans) Dooku would obviously be hard-carrying that theoretical tag-team to fight Sidious, though the fact she could sometimes hold her own against Kenobi and Skywalker by herself, and defeat Jedi Masters like Luminara Unduli, should demonstrate that Ventress was no joke. Palpatine wasn't intervening for no reason. He knew she could help Dooku overthrow him if she got anymore powerful than she did. It's 100% why it happened. The loss of a random CIS warship was of no concern to Palpatine, of course. Nevertheless, it does secondarily demonstrate that the CIS was willing to target their own ships if commanded to. Or, if not 'willing', certainly adherent to doing that. It almost makes one wonder what the Droids thought about it (especially in light of their more complex behaviours shown in The Mandalorian) Maybe for them it was a shocking turn of events whereas for the most part, it's played as an unimportant vessel being sacrificed on Dooku's (aka really Palpatine's) command. Point being, if the CIS can do that, then why not autopilot or directly pilot doomed vessels into Republic capital ships _on the regular_ in space battles? It's fairly obvious that with a 100 to 1 numerical advantage, the CIS Navy could certainly afford to do that. It's arguable that the Republic could not. It wasn't as though Anakin sacrificing one Venator to help liberate Ryloth was completely out of the realms of acceptable Republic logistical means to replace. Of course not. The Republic had thousands of Venators all told. Even so, for them to lose even one like that, would raise more eyebrows (literally 100 to 1 more eyebrows) than if the CIS did the same thing. There should be numerous examples of Droid warships being sent right into the middle of Republic fleets to detonate their own hypermatter reactors and take out like 3 or 4 Republic ships if not more. There should have been more Rydonium fire ship stunts. The same trick the CIS used by filling a Venator with Rydonium, and trying to destroy an entire Republic space station and naval base, being used for Republic High Command conferences and strategic deployments, in The Clone Wars series, should have been seen time and time again. And they wouldn't need Venators for that. Just have one hollowed out, skeleton crew operated (not _that_ Skeleton Crew, to clarify) _Munificent_-class frigate, filled to the rafters with crates/barrels of Rydonium, then have it randomly start going forward at full-thrust with it's sub-light speed engines, and put itself in the midst of the largest concentration of Republic ships. They'd have zero chance of reversing or evading faster than this ship could do it. It'd be a real fleet wrecker. Sure, the Republic and especially the Jedi would get wise to that tactic, but even with that in mind, it would still generally work more times out of ten than not working, just as a law of averages. You'd struggle to use firepower along to stop a whole frigate kamikaze'ing itself at you. No matter how much you threw at it, short of a Death Star superlaser, or telekinetic abilities worthy of the greatest force wielders ever known, then you are not going to be able to stop the damned thing before it nestled itself in the middle of your naval formation and shouted 'ADMIRAL AKBAR!' or 'IT'S A TRAP!'. It'd be all Ogre then. Droid numbers would be in the several *trillions* and potentially low quadrillions in some estimates. A now non-canon prequels era comic had General Grievous gloating at the Jedi that the Droid armies numbered 5 Quintillion. Which is a number which is otherwise expressed like this: 5,000,000,000,000,000,000. And of course, I do not take that figure as meaningful. It's frankly getting to Warhammer 40K levels of OTT'ness. And if we scale it back to 5 Trillion droids (of all units) that starts to become more acceptable. I wouldn't even recommend the quadrillions idea in between trillions and quadrillions. That too, being a bit too much in my view. One way of looking at it was that GG was trying to scare the Jedi. [part 1]
[part 2] In the old lore of the Rakatan Infinite Empire with it's 500 planets, they had 10 Billion warriors in their prime, 36,000-25,000 years before the Skywalker Saga. They had ~1 trillion slaves. If we accept that back into canon, it would mean they averaged out 20 million Rakatan warriors per planet. Now, in the real-world of 21st century Earth, there are legitimately, roughly about 29-30 million soldiers from all armies combined, from ~145 countries with meaningful armed forces. Let's just say 30 million or so globally in 2023, for our species and planet. One planet. They are not all under one banner, no, though the point I am making is quite obvious; the idea of 20 million Rakatan warriors being on each planet they owned as an average, for a total of around 10 billion warriors Empire wide, 25,000 plus years before the Clone Wars, would heavily suggest that the CIS in the Clone Wars was capable of having at least multiple billions of non-organic warriors (way, way more than 10 Billion) and so easily hundreds of Billions if not Trillions. They had several thousand planets. It would have been a total figure which fluctuated constantly, for sure, though there you go. There is no particular reason, on that basis and logic, for the CIS _not_ to be operating at much higher levels especially considering their quantity over quality approach. Which is why I strongly believe that Palpatine was the main reason they lost. The CIS had plenty of it's own leadership problems and issues, though they had everything they needed to win the war. They even knew where Kamino was. And they'd keep attacking it (why they stopped after one dubious attempt in TCW series is rather funny) The whole excuse about the listening station on the Rishi Moon is not good enough in my view. The CIS could just deluge the entire system with wave after wave of droid warships. No matter their losses, overrunning Kamino should have been a top priority. Kamino should have effectively been under siege with the CIS at least trying to blockade it with sheer weight of numbers as the war progressed. Even if Kamino had planetary shields too strong for them or multiple dozens of Republic battle groups trying to fend them off, it would really be a situation in which the CIS were able to isolate Kamino. Star Wars constantly wants to have it's cake and eat it, having it both ways, when it comes to the logic of it's own in-universe grand strategy. On the one hand, General Grievous' vastly numerically superior naval forces are able to give the Republic Navy the run-around and lead them on a wild goose chase (literally doing the same thing to the numerically inferior Republic Navy, what the numerically inferior Rebel Alliance Navy did to the vastly numerically superior Galactic Empire's Imperial Navy, in the Galactic Civil War. It's kind of like that situation but in reverse, because the much smaller navy was the one giving the much larger navy the run around in the OT and Galactic Civil War, whereas the much larger navy (CIS Navy) was the one giving the much smaller navy (Republic Navy) the run-around during the Clone Wars. Even with the important role of over 10,000 Jedi kept in mind, giving the Republic lots of wins they'd never have had without them, the problem is, this directly contradicts the idea of the plight of the CIS post-Battle of Coruscant. Grievous threw about four thousand CIS warships at Coruscant, and lost _a lot_ of them (as much due to Palpatine's long-planned betrayal, as any kind of Jedi or Clone heroism in battle; 1,000 extra Venators just showed up behind them and started trapping most of the fleeing CIS armada in the low orbit and upper atmosphere of Coruscant, where they got hammered - although massive Republic losses were clearly incurred to do this) Even with Palpatine's grand deception, against all sides (in a way, including his own, the Sith Order, when he betrayed Dooku/Tyranus; though that was in fairness, him doing that for the Sith cause by trying to get a more powerful apprentice to better the Sith. It wasn't that Dooku was weak, far, far from it. It's just that Anakin was something else) Now, sure, losing most of 4,000 or so warships was a very bad day in the office for even the vast CIS Navy. Yet if we are to believe that they really outnumbered the Republic 100 to 1, then theoretically, if the Republic still has thousands of capital ships _after_ the Battle of Coruscant (which it absolutely did; if anything, growing in strength with newer ship classes of Star Destroyers following on from the Venator already coming into service for the first time) then, surely that should imply at least >300,000-400,000 remaining CIS warships. Which, would be entirely logical if their entire approach to naval strategy was overwhelming numbers. And galaxy wide, this is not as crazy as it sounds. Not by a long shot. The Galactic Empire would go on to have millions of ships of all classes, though a backbone of "merely" _25,000_ Imperial Star Destroyers (a mix I's and II's, including I's refitted/converted to II's) Technically, even 400,000 CIS warships is kind of modest if they have trillions of droids to go around between them. And by 'kind of modest' I really mean 'genuinely insufficient if you do the Maths'. If your average warship can carry anywhere between a few tens of thousands to a few hundred thousand battle droids/various droid units of all types including infantry, tanks, starfighters, maintenance units etc, then you are going to end up with a figure which corroborates the idea of at least hundreds of Billions, and justifiably Trillions, in the CIS military in grand total. For instance, a typical warship in the CIS Navy was a _Munificent_-class frigate. A medium sized warship pretty much representative of the average line of best fit CIS warship you'd be likely to encountering during the Clone Wars, and one of, if not the most common. There were very many other Separatist warships in all shapes and sizes, though arguably, the _Munificent_-class does a good job at summarising the CIS Navy (for all it's serious flaws; see incredibly badly designed bridge) A _Munificent_-class is typically operated by a skeleton crew of 200 Droids and sometimes an 'organic' captain, though primarily you'll see a Droid Commander in charge, with the yellow paint markings. Sometimes Tactical Droids were in command instead, increasingly, as the Clone Wars continued. There was passenger space for about 850 other crew and passengers. But according to the sources, each Munificent was allegedly capable of carrying 150,000 in-storage (presumably folded up) Battle Droids. A 'flatpack army' as it were. And if that was universally true of every Munificent at Coruscant, then you're immediately looking at tens of millions of Droids being lost in a single, long day. Millions of droids were landed on Coruscant. Surely hundreds of thousands if not millions were still fighting over Coruscant after they landed. And remember, the overwhelming majority of the CIS Navy _is not_ present at the Battle of Coruscant, instead facilitating it being possible in the first place, by giving the Republic Navy a wild goose chase. But this is where the logical inconsistency of Star Wars in terms of it's own numbers, begins to really drag me out of the immersion into the lore. It's just too stupid to be realistic. The CIS Navy doesn't need to use the vast majority of it's navy to give the Republic the run-around across the Outer Rim. And the entire Outer Rim Sieges thing is a mess of lore which doesn't make much sense either. The Republic winning serious victories against the CIS is possible, and could turn the tide, but the entire way shape of the war towards the end makes little sense. CIS numbers would still be enormous. It is canonical that Grievous had used most of the CIS Navy to divert presumably most of the Republic Navy far and wide across the galaxy. The entire point about his more surgical strike on Coruscant, was, at least for him, a means of taking the Supreme Chancellor as hostage (only, he was too dumb to realise he was suspiciously similar sounding to Darth Sidious, whom he didn't realise was the same person) For Palpatine/Sidious, it was about the end game of the Clone Wars, discarding Dooku and moving a step closer to absolute power. The Separatists and Dooku were the fall guys for that to work. Controlled opposition, always meant to fail. Still, if we ignore Palpatine's machinations and schemes, vastly impacting the Clone Wars (the entire war was his doing; billions of deaths, entirely his fault), then we can see that on paper and largely (but not entirely) in practice, the CIS Navy and Droid Army in general, _should_ be winning the war in most scenarios it is played out in.
[part 3] If a single _Munificent_-class is casually carrying 150,000 Battle Droids in storage, and there are thousands of these Munificents around the galaxy, likely tens of thousands, it starts to make you wonder how they could ever lose, _even with_ Palpatine hard-nerfing them into an unnatural defeat. The Clones, can simply not withstand such numbers. It's plainly ridiculous. 150,000 Battle Droids on one typical CIS starship, with bigger units like the _Lucrehulk_-class battleships carrying _millions_ of Battle Droids? Yeah, it just doesn't add up. Even if most of these are never deployed, even if the CIS is only really fighting with a small fraction of it's available droids (as on Geonosis; where >1 million out of 3.7 million they theoretically had around were still involved), it just doesn't seem right that the Republic can stand up to that. Attrition alone would wear Republic forces down to their last reserves, galaxy-wide, in a matter of a few months. Even with stunning tactics and Jedi shenanigans hard-carrying the Clones through major victories they'd otherwise have lost (see literally the entire Ryloth Arc), they just can't keep up with CIS numbers. They _were_ ratio'ing them by a disgustingly sweaty margin of course, but this doesn't really matter. The CIS could have genuinely had an entire army of droids specifically allocated to fighting _one_ Clone, if the idea of several million clones is to be believed. This is why I am convinced they have to come clean with this and just retcon it to be the case that the Clones were really around 50 Billion strong in number (at least, if not 100 Billion strong) Otherwise, it just doesn't make sense. The obsession with centralising everything on Kamino, never made sense. Why not have secret Kaminoan cloning facilities around the Rishi Maze all working together? Why make the Kaminoans just some backwater (literally water-world backwater) with one planet to rely on for everything? Why not just make it easier and smarter and have them own a modest interstellar empire beyond the borders of the Republic, with their reputation being unknown to the Republic due to their own secrecy on a sector wide basis? Why does everything have to be such a secret regarding Kamino? It could always have been known to the Jedi and still used as a base of secret cloning operations. The idea of their entire economy relying on cloning is also silly. It's just not properly thought-through. A single planet will obviously have logical limitations in how many Clone Troopers it can expensively raise. Probably several million, as is thought. Though again, why couldn't this have been going on for longer, with or without growth acceleration? Why did it need to line up with the end of Episode I when things were put in motion? Just because of Sifo-Dyas and Dooku? No. It's just dumb. Leaving the massive headache of the number of Clones to one side for a moment, going back to the CIS Navy matter, even if it's 'just' tens/hundreds of billions of Droid units galaxy-wide, then 400,000 to as much as 500,000 warships perhaps, makes a lot of sense. Even with 25,000 ISDs the Galactic Empire was struggling to control it's vast territory which was much larger than CIS space (it literally had the territory of the Republic _and_ CIS combined plus lots more added onto that subtotal of territory, during and after the Imperial Expansion Era as mentioned in The Mandalorian series) It's part of why the whole Malevolence Arc made zero sense other than being a homage to WWII and the Hunt for the Bismarck (which it was obviously referring to) Why is the _Subjugator_-class Heavy Cruiser just a class of four ships? Literally _four_ warships. Yes, they are big lads, but so? There should still be dozens of them around. Instead, to make them seem more special than they are, to hype up the entire of a super-sized Separatist starship savaging space-stations (bleurgh alliteration bleurgh), and have a Bismarck for the Star Wars galaxy, then they are limited to that. Now yes, a lone _Subjugator_-class going around massacring entire Republic fleets, presumably being responsible for killing literally hundreds of thousands of Republic personnel including many tens of thousands of Clone Troopers and Clone Naval Officers, in the space of a few weeks, would be a serious setback if the Republic really is fighting with just a few million Clones early-war. But why focus so much on _one_ ship? Because it's Star Wars, that's why. You know it, I know it. Everyone knows. It's just having fun with that toy space ship and we aren't meant to think about it too much. Obviously. But it is quite asinine and frankly dumb. In TCW series a great deal of furore in the Senate is kicked up because the idea of 5 million extra Clones being ordered, is contested by Padme 'I'm a genius' Amidala and her ilk. Even though, for a Galactic Republic at _that_ scale, 5 million extra Clones (however individually expensive; and yes, they would be incredibly expensive per unit; though let's face it, they don't exactly have brilliant life expectancy during the Clone Wars) If Senator Amidala is getting her knickers in a twist over 5 million more Clones being added to the Grand Army of the Republic, then I suggest she return to Theed on Naboo for foundation level Maths lessons. 5 million extra for a galaxy wide war should practically be a weekly if not _daily_ quota they should be pushing for. Yet in TCW, Filoni spectacularly misunderstood numbers, and made 5 million some benchmark. 5 million wasn't ever enough. 10 million wouldn't be, either. Come back to me when the Clone Army is retconned to be 50-100 Billion strong and then we'll talk lol Until then, the Droid Army of _trillions_ will stomp them every single time even if Palpatine is doing everything he can to sabotage the Separatists from within via Dooku. Even if, billions were thrown away. And yes, the idea of like 90-95% of the Droid Army being in various short-term and long-term storage locations (whether on board warships in storage units or container racks etc, or stored in massive underground complexes or planet-side fortresses), is a tempting concept. I like the idea of the CIS having 5 Trillion Droids in total, but usually about ~250-500 Billion _actually deployed_ and active at any given time. When they start suffering immense losses, they can dip into this vast storage pool and effectively possess a practically infinite number of replacements. Or, what would essentially be tantamount to that. Not true infinity, of course, just 'as good as infinite' numbers. They can never run out. It's just not going to happen. If the Galactic Empire had billions/indeed trillions of personnel galaxy wide at it's height, why couldn't the CIS with droids they can crank out of a factory by the tens of thousands per afternoon? It makes absolutely zero sense for them to fail even if we factor in Palpatine being Palpatine, doing his thing, and the general incompetence and indolence of the Separatist Leadership of the Separatist Council. Even then, we would have to reconcile the fact that most of the CIS was still doing alright and not being turned into space debris _after_ the Battle of Coruscant. This in turn, is why Utapau made little to no sense, either. Oh, what, Grievous is suddenly down to his last 10,000 or so available Battle Droids hiding out on some sinkhole cliffside in the backend of nowhere, with a Republic flotilla large enough to capture the planet 3 times over against the forces Grievous has there, literally getting himself stuck in a hole to die in? Why Utapau? What possible reason could the Separatists have for convening there and not on say, a far more heavily-fortified Separatist stronghold world? Why are they in bum f' nowhere with their cause in flames just because of losing at Coruscant? They should _still_ outnumber the Republic at least 100 to 1. It's a joke. It's just because Lucas didn't know how to end it properly. He made the CIS way too powerful to be defeated on his own terms. It doesn't make any sense. I don't care if each Clone is taking out hundreds/thousands of Battle Droids in their careers, a lot of them will be perishing long before that is remotely possible. Not every Clone is some giga-chad clanker-spanker. He is going to be an average Joe Clone taking out plenty of droids, for sure, though still being gunned down horribly like half of his fellow Clones seem to be. And some Clones were just kind of _special_ (see Christophsis and the champion puncher Clone) Multiple entire legions were completely wiped out to the last Clone during the Clone Wars. We don't even have a number for how many legions there even were, because nobody has any real idea how many there are (and if they are telling you they do know, they are flat out lying, because it was never clearly defined) We have the 501st so that implies a few things, though the way the writers define certain groupings of soldiers, throwing around Battalion like it is a Legion, throwing around Corps like it is a Legion etc just starts to get bewildering.
[part 4] Suffice it to say that if it were up to me, 50 Billion clones would be outnumbered 10 to 1 most days against an _active_ Droid force of at least 500 Billion. However, in storage, the CIS would casually have another 4,500 Billion aka 4.5 Trillion. Their navy should be about 500,000 major units strong. They should have at least 50,000 (if not 100,000, across all relevant classes, all told) heavier capital ships including but not limited to the _Lucrehulk_-class variants, _Providence_-class variants and the big variants of the _Recusant_-class. They should then have an extra sprinkling of maybe 1,000 or so very big capital ships like the _Subjugator_-class Heavy Cruiser (I'd say there should be at very least 100 of them specifically, maybe 200-250, with the rest of that thousand being various other designs of dreadnoughts and heavy cruisers of a size which is greatly larger than a _Venator_-class Star Destroyer) The Republic Navy should therefore have no fewer than 4,000-5,000 warships. Itself, still small for it's vast commitments, though genuinely likely considering they had to build that up from virtually nothing in the space of 3 years (and yes, their attrition rate would be bad; not as bad as the CIS Navy, which would certainly be losing several to a dozen times more ships on average) I have no problem with the Republic Navy being more like 10,000 or so major warships/capital ships towards the end of the war, just so long as the CIS Navy is then defined to have had 1,000,000 major units from medium frigates to super dreadnoughts. In some situations a single _Munificent_-class frigate showing up would likely end a dispute if the Republic had something smaller (well, unless Jedi were involved, in which case, the Munificent might be in trouble; though with 150,000 Droids in storage, it really does beg the question, why were they ever so vulnerable to Jedi boarding actions when they could just swarm their own gaunt and empty corridors with overwhelming Droid numbers?) In other situations, the Republic will be in fleet strength, and it would take several times as many Munificents to overpower a smaller number of Venators. Nevertheless, the idea of Grievous going from distracting the Republic Navy far and wide across the galaxy, and _then_ just jumping into his sinkhole on Utapau to die in it, in the space of a few days, makes absolutely no sense. The CIS was capturing about as many planets as it was losing. Yes, there is newer lore trying to claim the CIS was genuinely losing the war because of a string of serious defeats across the duration of the Outer Rim Sieges. But I'm not buying that blatant Deus Ex Machina contrivance. It's just bad writing. If even 10% of the CIS was actively engaged, the Republic would still have an existential crisis on it's hands. That is the main point here. Droids should always win given enough time and attrition. It's just that Palpatine made sure that did not happen. I'd rather have 10,000 Battle Droids amble off an assembly line in one hour in one factory, than a batch of 200,000 Clones march out of training on Kamino after 10 years. It only remotely makes sense if we up the numbers for _both_ the CIS and the Republic, and have them numbering in the billions. Lucas didn't, and apparently Filoni also doesn't, have a basic grasp of galactic scale warfare. Plenty of other franchises are guilty of the same, even on a mere locally interstellar level. The idea of 5-8 million or so Clones verifiably in the Clone Wars, makes as little sense as the idea of just 10,000 Jedi coming from a galaxy with literal quadrillions of sentient beings, on tens of millions of planets. A single Jedi of scrub level average quality would on average be representative of hundreds of planets by himself. Again, makes no sense. Plenty of planets would never have even heard of Jedi in all 25,000 years of their order, just because of how few each generation seems to have. Lucas originally wrote about there being over 100,000 Jedi in the 1980's when finalising Return Of The Jedi (originally, Revenge Of The Jedi, before he realised that sounded too Sith), but that somehow shrank to 10,000 ish by the Prequel Trilogy/PT. Even a million Jedi galaxy wide would be a bit thin-on-the-ground out of a galactic population ranging between the quadrillions and the quintillions. It's bogus. Most of the Jedi aren't even that impressive. Some of their best Jedi Knights and Masters are, but yeah, plenty of them are complete jokes held in comparison to Dooku for instance. Dooku was weaker than Anakin yes, though we should remember he was near-peer with Yoda and basically 99.99% of the Jedi Order stood zero chance against Dooku in a 1 Vs 1. It _had_ to be the likes of Yoda, Kenobi and Anakin etc fighting him. Otherwise they'd just get Dooku'd. And Dooku Dooku'd Anakin several times before he closed that gap. Using Dooku as a litmus paper for Jedi powers and quality, I'm afraid roughly ~ >9,990 of them would get obliterated by him without him breaking a sweat (and yes, that does in fairness include however many hundreds/thousands of padawans.younglings/initiates there were amongst their numbers, though it still matters) If we narrow it down to say the top several hundred Jedi Knights and Masters that stand any sort of chance of even fighting in the same oxygen as Dooku, then almost all of them are still going to die against him. It's why Jedi routinely failed to apprehend Dooku during the Clone Wars. He outright made a mockery of pretty much all of them including Kenobi and Skywalker for a long time. Only Yoda and Windu really stood a credible chance of killing him (until Anakin and _maybe_ Kenobi joined that club and earned the 'ownership') In theory, Windu could defeat Dooku. But my money would be on Dooku. They were basically perfectly matched. Yoda's old bros before Dooku left the Jedi Order. And with Dooku leading the CIS, his Sith loyalties and split loyalties as such aside, the CIS could ask for no better figure of leadership. It was just that, the vast majority of Separatists didn't realise Dooku was a Sith Lord capable of turning most Jedi Masters inside out. Windu was about as powerful as Dooku (though I would argue Dooku was slightly more powerful, though not by enough to make a clear difference) Then it'd come down to the lightsaber and even Palpatine feared Dooku's lightsaber skills, after learning how close the fight between Yoda and Dooku was on Geonosis (and Yoda stans need to realise that _was_ a close fight in spite of Dooku running to evade obvious capture by the entire Grand Army of the Republic and remaining Jedi presence on Geonosis at that point) Just because Windu unnecessarily got hyped up and shown to allegedly defeat Sidious, in ROTS, doesn't necessarily mean he could do the same to Dooku. It's a completely different fight. Not to mention that Dooku did defeat Windu in sparring at the Jedi Temple (only Dooku and Yoda ever did; and only Yoda ever defeated Dooku in sparring sessions) But what I think is underrated about Dooku, is that he was Yoda's apprentice. Yoda's actual, direct apprentice. Just as Kenobi knew Anakin better than anyone, Yoda knew Dooku better than anyone. And the same could have been said in reverse, for both pairs of Masters/former Masters and apprentices/former apprentices. If Yoda knew how Dooku ticked and how to get the better of him, then why are people so confused by the idea of Dooku being best poised to know the same for Yoda? Dooku was absolutely a credible risk to life for Yoda. One of the few who were. We've seen Dooku defeat Yaddle, one of Yoda's species. This by itself doesn't necessarily mean Yoda and Yaddle were comparable, but she was several hundred years old and clearly very powerful and skilled with the lightsaber. Were she still around in the Clone Wars era, she'd be right up there (and it is debatable whether Windu would be significantly stronger in the Force than she was) amongst the strongest Jedi on the Jedi High Council. No, she's not Yoda and Yoda could be much better as a combatant, and he was much older than her. But still. Dooku knew how to fight and kill Jedi Masters of Yoda's species. It was not impossible for Dooku to kill Yoda in lightsaber combat. It was _more likely he would lose to_ Yoda, yes, though if it came down to in, prime Dooku would probably be able to win in sparring matches with Yoda. Did he really spend his entire time as apprentice losing every single sparring match to Yoda? I just don't believe it. No more than we'd believe Anakin losing every sparring match to Obi-Wan. And yes, Obi-Wan was much weaker in the Force than Anakin, though he used his wits to outsmart him constantly. Can Dooku outsmart Yoda? Probably not. But if _anyone_ could it would be him (if not Palpatine; though Yoda did defeat Palpatine with the lightsaber, Palpatine overpowered Yoda with the Dark Side of the Force, in a close-run fight) In now non-canon legends material regarding Dooku and Yoda, they were holding talks on the planet Vjun, before things turned ugly and the two ended up fighting. Dooku nearly killed Yoda twice during the duel, 'tagging' him twice (his lightsaber catching Yoda's clothing twice) He did slightly injure him with the intensity of the duel arguably surpassing that seen on Geonosis in canon. However, it wasn't as though Dooku had a clear advantage at any point, more or less that the two were just too good at cancelling each other out. Sort of like Kenobi and Skywalker. Dooku to Yoda was what Anakin was to Kenobi. Yoda was always innately a bit stronger than Dooku in the Force, though it's questionable if this would _always_ be a decisive, duel-ending factor. Maybe. Sometimes. Especially when Dooku was younger. But as his skill with the lightsaber became legendary, Dooku would be able to force Yoda to essentially 'max out' to win (making Yoda pull out all the stops to win)
Star Wars should just drop stating hard numbers. Clearly they were more interested in doing a proper job with that during West End Games era because nothing has been established yet which gave them free reign. Now it's just counterproductive to continue doing it.
Thank you for this deep take into hard numbers in Star Wars, that was really interesting to read. I cannot comment on all matters you spoke about because there's a lot, but I must say that I agree with your opinion about the quantity of clones, droids, planets, and capacity of the ships. Your conclusions actually make a lot of sense. Thank you for this enjoyable analysis, Paleontologist!
With how the CiS was broken up into multiple spatial volumes. Having multiple manufacturing centers built up Probabaly helped them in the long run until palpatines machinations came through
There should have been several thousands of smaller factories all across the Galaxy, and the Confederacy Council should have realized that putting all their eggs in one basket was a really idiotic idea.
When I first saw the title of the video, I thought Raxus Prime would be among one of the factory worlds, but then I realized that it was the political home world of the CIS, NOT the industrial world.
Yet one should wonder why the Republic didn't counter with their own mass clone spawning planets. At least Geonosis wasn't a Republic defeat. Not a fan of First Battle of Bull Run scenarios.
First. Love all your clone wars videos. Question tho, how much of the old republic have you done? May not be as much to do videos on but I’d love to see more old republic
Considering that (at least In Legends) the CIS had several Trillion Battle Droids they could even put the fight up after loosing the Main Factories. I mean even the Millions of Clones can’t destroy Trillions of Droids so fast
Essentially, when an enamy empire take one of my best forge worlds in Stellaris, like the U.S.S Yorktown "Yes you got that one, what about the other Yorktown"
Trillions? Does this indicate the CIS had trillions of combatants? Or have these trillions of battle droids been built over decades and decades, for use as pre-Clone Wars private armies?
CIS lost the war for the narratives plot armor, truth is if they truly fielded the absurd numbers in all ranks and military branches (navy, ground & air forces + allied militias) they would’ve and should of clapped the Republics galactic cheeks and steamrolled them at best and advanced with good progress but delayed somewhat at worst. The droid army was no joke and those space wizards with colorful vroom vroom popsicle laser swords wouldn’t have been enough even with the force to clap such a force without papa palps meddling and grand plan, bunch of bullsith if you ask me. Gimmie ten million+ commando droids with the confederacy full naval might and I’ll give you a Star Wars galaxy on a clone troopers asscheek platter.
Sorry, but you are wrong about the Republic having an "industrial advantage". The official "Star Wars Rebels" TV show says that the Confederacy greatly outnumbered Republic forces at the end of the Clone Wars. That the Droid shutdown command is what saved the Republic.
Hypori has to be my favorite CIS Foundry world. Especially with it being the introduction to Grievous in a badass and terrifying way. Absolutely amazing!
It's said that no clones survived the battle.
@@princeofpokemon2934 I love legends
I love Hypori for two things :
1, it's here that Grievous canonicaly makes his first appearance, and show how brutal he is.
2, in Star Wars : Empire at War, Forces of Corruption, Hypori is a nice map to play on and you could get CIS unit when you build a droid factory on it. I loved to spam herds of B1 against the Rebels and Imperials.
Gotta love Empire at War's continuity fanservice.
Same with Rebellion's and X-Wing Alliance's.
It was actually Mark II Destroyer Droids that you unlock when gaining Hypori during the Forces of Corruption campaign, no B1 Battle Droids outside of certain mods.
@@manofmercy1500 oh yeah, my bad. But nowadays I just play with mods sooooooo.....
@@raendymion3149 That's fair. The Vanilla game/expansion has admittedly not aged very well.
@@manofmercy1500 Nah, it aged well, it's just that it has felt more enhanced just like modded games like Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II - The Sith Lords (Restored Content Mod), Deus Ex (GMDX and The Nameless Mod), FreeSpace 2 (Port+Silent Threat: Reborn and Blue Planet), and SWAT 4+The Stetchkov Syndicate (Elite Force).
We should have seen more of the Techno Union and their speaker systems
Geonosis factories nearly collapsed
I wish we seen these droid factory mechworlds in clone wars
We would have seen the beginning industrialization of Utapau enforced by the cis if those ruthless disney tyrants didnt delete the true seventh season for their own shitty season. Wouldve been epic.
@@abraham2172Forced Industrialization of Utapau is really planned to Clone Wars season 7?
So I guess this is why the Separatists were trying to capture Ringo Vinda back then, that massive space station can become a shipyard for the Separatists Navy and its world most likely capable of producing massive amount of Battle Droids as well. Speaking of which, how did the Republic take Ringo Vinda back? Last time I checked, they were forced to withdraw because of Tup's chip ended up malfunction. Not to mention that Admiral Trench was in command before being reassigned to Anaxes as well.
Trench *canonically* is a complete idiot as shown in season 7 of "TCW".
There should have been more Droid factories across the galaxy as half of it joined the Separatists.
Maybe not on the scale of geonsis or their foundry worlds. Many planets would have had some portion of their industry working on war materials.
Not enough to get labeled a factory world but it would have helped
I feel that since the cis was designed to fail we never got to see what they were capable of. Imagine what could have happened if palpatine wasn’t involved. The tactics that the cis would potentially have used is terrifying.
Without Palpy the CIS situation would be a lot different. For one the corps would be selling heavily to both sides so droids would have been used massively by both.
@@theliato3809ah classic war profiteering
Rex: Doesn’t matter where they get their clankers from! We’ll just keep shooting them down!
Where's that line from again?
In this universe of space wizards, fast aging clones and self aware Droid armies the thing I find the most unrealistic is that the galactic wide war lasted less then 4 years
Without the shut down order the outer rim sieges could have dragged out the war for twice as along.
You do a list of the bloodiest battles throughout the eras. From the Old Republic, Clone Wars, Galactic Civil War, and so on. List them in terms of casualties, destruction, ramifications, and how it affected the faction that lost the battle(s).
Pretty sure that video has been done already
Me before watching the video: If I remember the video you did about the Battle of Hypori a while back, you mentioned how Hypori became like a second Geonosis so I'm guessing that's the one.
Me after watching the video: Okay, I was wrong it was a bunch of different worlds. But that begs the question if the CIS controlled so many more mech worlds, then how come the Republic which controlled less mech worlds had more industrial might? Was it a situation of quantity over quality, where the Republic controlled less but the stuff they produced was just better?
Also, 9:42-9:48: I feel like the shutting down of the Ddroid army also played a role in this too.
Looks like it. Plus, there's Palpatine secretly giving the Republic forces a subtle edge on their tech and methods.
And I wonder why people still sympathize with the Seppers... though I sympathize with them wanting them to at least have some spotlight storytelling that TCW 2008 lacked.
They had a massive army but they still need to conquer trillions of people and their planetary defense forces on the ground and in space.
That kind of grinding war even for a droid military is gonna be hell on logistics
All those Mech worlds I already know because I played Republic At War and the 2002 Clone Wars game also read the Boba Fett book where he went to Xagobah.
There would have been plenty of Droid factory worlds. The needless overemphasis on Geonosis was always a bit strange. Star Wars typically has problems grasping the very concept of a galactic war, it seems, both in terms of the numbers and the logistical scale of the procurement arrangements involved. The most obvious example of that would be the failure to define exact Clone numbers in any kind of convincing way. Several million clones are just not going to cut it - however 'elite' - in a galactic scale war. Anyone with a modicum of common sense would realise that after giving a mere cursory glance to the map of the Star Wars galaxy - all ~120,000 lightyears of it across.
The idea of a handful of factory worlds hard-carrying the entire Separatist war machine, could be reasoned in terms of being the biggest factories they have, although it should always have been pointed out that the CIS has _hundreds if not thousands_ of more average scale factories with a rate of production which was considerably lower than Geonosis, Hypori or Mechis III etc. All the same, 'lower production rates' from even 'average droid factories' _should_ look more like millions being churned out of _all of them_ (each and every one)
Unless specifically interrupted by the Jedi and Republic invading them, the production rates that even the more unspectacular factories would have, should be rather impressive regardless. It is canonical that during the Second Battle of Geonosis during the Clone Wars, that even while under full-scale attack the different Droid factory operations on Geonosis were absolutely continuing their work until destroyed. This implies two things about other factories; if well-supplied they'd just keep churning out those droids unless shut down/destroyed, and that there was no particular reason why the replacement levels in the Droid Army couldn't be met on a literally daily basis.
This doesn't _necessarily_ mean, I must add, that severe losses to Droids on the frontlines of the actively raging war would be immediately able to be replaced. Not every Separatist army was fortune enough to be positioned right in front of a Droid factory with reinforcements literally marching off the production line into their ranks. But if you think about it, wouldn't the Separatists have more prefabricated forward operating Droid factories to replace losses? In the 2002 Clone Wars game on Gamecube, for instance, definitely put together with the direct input of the Lucasarts of that time, the CIS have these squat droid factories which NPC AT-TE walkers which you are guarding with your Republic Fighter Tank, can take out with their heavier guns.
It's not canonical and yes it is a game mechanic, though it always made sense to me that there'd be these modestly sized (still pretty decent) arrays of like 3 or 4 small warehouse sized droid factories cranking out droid tanks and likely infantry units (though in the game, it's basically an array of light and heavy tanks, because you will be in a tank for a lot of the game, most fighting, well, other tanks) I think Lucasarts was playing around with the ideas of droid factories and droid dispensers (for the latter, see the good old MTT or the literal Droid dispensers in Republic Commando 2004) Again, the latter (Republic Commando) is no longer strictly canonical (in spite of Delta Squad being made canonical again in The Clone Wars, in their brief appearances)
I would just argue that realistically, the CIS could never normally lose. The only argument I'd accept for the CIS losing is because of Palpatine heavily nerfing them or twisting the war how he wanted. Which, is obviously what did happen. In-fighting and general incompetence and cowardice amongst the Separatist Council was also a problem, though _even by accident_ the CIS should be winning countless battles just through sheer weight of firepower and the ridiculous numerical advantage they'd almost always have.
They won't match Clones on skill though it starts to become very immersion breaking when the Republic finds itself in the position to kamikaze dying Venators into Lucrehulks (see Ryloth Arc; see Anakin's antics) Now, yes, that is Anakin (and yes, it was pretty much copied from the 2005 PS2 ROTS game cinematic where a Venator crashes into a Lucrehulk's core ship over Coruscant) Jedi do achieve interesting things. However, when the Republic is depicted as being the one to do that, and the CIS is almost never shown to use written off ships as rams, it starts to get bizarre.
There should be literally hundreds of incidents where a half-destroyed CIS ship is just told to ram into the nearest Republic capital ship to do as much damage as possible. After all, over Saleucami, when Dooku was ordered to kill Ventress by Sidious (Dooku being on Serenno, Ventress actually fighting over Saleucami and Sidious being on Coruscant, as this is happening), the CIS warship Ventress ended up crash landing in (pursued and engaged in lightsaber combat by Anakin and Obi-Wan), was ordered to be fired on by the guns of the rest of the CIS fleet present, heedless of other targets.
Now, sure, that is a more specific example whereby the Dark Lord of the Sith himself intervened to stop Dooku's protégé from becoming too powerful (Palpatine feared Dooku and Ventress working together to kill him, which is absolutely canon and was possible in spite of how this might upset some Sidious fans/stans) Dooku would obviously be hard-carrying that theoretical tag-team to fight Sidious, though the fact she could sometimes hold her own against Kenobi and Skywalker by herself, and defeat Jedi Masters like Luminara Unduli, should demonstrate that Ventress was no joke. Palpatine wasn't intervening for no reason. He knew she could help Dooku overthrow him if she got anymore powerful than she did. It's 100% why it happened. The loss of a random CIS warship was of no concern to Palpatine, of course.
Nevertheless, it does secondarily demonstrate that the CIS was willing to target their own ships if commanded to. Or, if not 'willing', certainly adherent to doing that. It almost makes one wonder what the Droids thought about it (especially in light of their more complex behaviours shown in The Mandalorian) Maybe for them it was a shocking turn of events whereas for the most part, it's played as an unimportant vessel being sacrificed on Dooku's (aka really Palpatine's) command.
Point being, if the CIS can do that, then why not autopilot or directly pilot doomed vessels into Republic capital ships _on the regular_ in space battles? It's fairly obvious that with a 100 to 1 numerical advantage, the CIS Navy could certainly afford to do that. It's arguable that the Republic could not. It wasn't as though Anakin sacrificing one Venator to help liberate Ryloth was completely out of the realms of acceptable Republic logistical means to replace. Of course not. The Republic had thousands of Venators all told. Even so, for them to lose even one like that, would raise more eyebrows (literally 100 to 1 more eyebrows) than if the CIS did the same thing. There should be numerous examples of Droid warships being sent right into the middle of Republic fleets to detonate their own hypermatter reactors and take out like 3 or 4 Republic ships if not more. There should have been more Rydonium fire ship stunts.
The same trick the CIS used by filling a Venator with Rydonium, and trying to destroy an entire Republic space station and naval base, being used for Republic High Command conferences and strategic deployments, in The Clone Wars series, should have been seen time and time again. And they wouldn't need Venators for that. Just have one hollowed out, skeleton crew operated (not _that_ Skeleton Crew, to clarify) _Munificent_-class frigate, filled to the rafters with crates/barrels of Rydonium, then have it randomly start going forward at full-thrust with it's sub-light speed engines, and put itself in the midst of the largest concentration of Republic ships. They'd have zero chance of reversing or evading faster than this ship could do it. It'd be a real fleet wrecker.
Sure, the Republic and especially the Jedi would get wise to that tactic, but even with that in mind, it would still generally work more times out of ten than not working, just as a law of averages. You'd struggle to use firepower along to stop a whole frigate kamikaze'ing itself at you. No matter how much you threw at it, short of a Death Star superlaser, or telekinetic abilities worthy of the greatest force wielders ever known, then you are not going to be able to stop the damned thing before it nestled itself in the middle of your naval formation and shouted 'ADMIRAL AKBAR!' or 'IT'S A TRAP!'. It'd be all Ogre then.
Droid numbers would be in the several *trillions* and potentially low quadrillions in some estimates. A now non-canon prequels era comic had General Grievous gloating at the Jedi that the Droid armies numbered 5 Quintillion. Which is a number which is otherwise expressed like this: 5,000,000,000,000,000,000. And of course, I do not take that figure as meaningful. It's frankly getting to Warhammer 40K levels of OTT'ness. And if we scale it back to 5 Trillion droids (of all units) that starts to become more acceptable. I wouldn't even recommend the quadrillions idea in between trillions and quadrillions. That too, being a bit too much in my view. One way of looking at it was that GG was trying to scare the Jedi.
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In the old lore of the Rakatan Infinite Empire with it's 500 planets, they had 10 Billion warriors in their prime, 36,000-25,000 years before the Skywalker Saga. They had ~1 trillion slaves. If we accept that back into canon, it would mean they averaged out 20 million Rakatan warriors per planet. Now, in the real-world of 21st century Earth, there are legitimately, roughly about 29-30 million soldiers from all armies combined, from ~145 countries with meaningful armed forces. Let's just say 30 million or so globally in 2023, for our species and planet. One planet.
They are not all under one banner, no, though the point I am making is quite obvious; the idea of 20 million Rakatan warriors being on each planet they owned as an average, for a total of around 10 billion warriors Empire wide, 25,000 plus years before the Clone Wars, would heavily suggest that the CIS in the Clone Wars was capable of having at least multiple billions of non-organic warriors (way, way more than 10 Billion) and so easily hundreds of Billions if not Trillions. They had several thousand planets. It would have been a total figure which fluctuated constantly, for sure, though there you go. There is no particular reason, on that basis and logic, for the CIS _not_ to be operating at much higher levels especially considering their quantity over quality approach.
Which is why I strongly believe that Palpatine was the main reason they lost. The CIS had plenty of it's own leadership problems and issues, though they had everything they needed to win the war. They even knew where Kamino was. And they'd keep attacking it (why they stopped after one dubious attempt in TCW series is rather funny) The whole excuse about the listening station on the Rishi Moon is not good enough in my view. The CIS could just deluge the entire system with wave after wave of droid warships.
No matter their losses, overrunning Kamino should have been a top priority. Kamino should have effectively been under siege with the CIS at least trying to blockade it with sheer weight of numbers as the war progressed. Even if Kamino had planetary shields too strong for them or multiple dozens of Republic battle groups trying to fend them off, it would really be a situation in which the CIS were able to isolate Kamino.
Star Wars constantly wants to have it's cake and eat it, having it both ways, when it comes to the logic of it's own in-universe grand strategy. On the one hand, General Grievous' vastly numerically superior naval forces are able to give the Republic Navy the run-around and lead them on a wild goose chase (literally doing the same thing to the numerically inferior Republic Navy, what the numerically inferior Rebel Alliance Navy did to the vastly numerically superior Galactic Empire's Imperial Navy, in the Galactic Civil War.
It's kind of like that situation but in reverse, because the much smaller navy was the one giving the much larger navy the run around in the OT and Galactic Civil War, whereas the much larger navy (CIS Navy) was the one giving the much smaller navy (Republic Navy) the run-around during the Clone Wars. Even with the important role of over 10,000 Jedi kept in mind, giving the Republic lots of wins they'd never have had without them, the problem is, this directly contradicts the idea of the plight of the CIS post-Battle of Coruscant.
Grievous threw about four thousand CIS warships at Coruscant, and lost _a lot_ of them (as much due to Palpatine's long-planned betrayal, as any kind of Jedi or Clone heroism in battle; 1,000 extra Venators just showed up behind them and started trapping most of the fleeing CIS armada in the low orbit and upper atmosphere of Coruscant, where they got hammered - although massive Republic losses were clearly incurred to do this) Even with Palpatine's grand deception, against all sides (in a way, including his own, the Sith Order, when he betrayed Dooku/Tyranus; though that was in fairness, him doing that for the Sith cause by trying to get a more powerful apprentice to better the Sith. It wasn't that Dooku was weak, far, far from it. It's just that Anakin was something else)
Now, sure, losing most of 4,000 or so warships was a very bad day in the office for even the vast CIS Navy. Yet if we are to believe that they really outnumbered the Republic 100 to 1, then theoretically, if the Republic still has thousands of capital ships _after_ the Battle of Coruscant (which it absolutely did; if anything, growing in strength with newer ship classes of Star Destroyers following on from the Venator already coming into service for the first time) then, surely that should imply at least >300,000-400,000 remaining CIS warships.
Which, would be entirely logical if their entire approach to naval strategy was overwhelming numbers. And galaxy wide, this is not as crazy as it sounds. Not by a long shot. The Galactic Empire would go on to have millions of ships of all classes, though a backbone of "merely" _25,000_ Imperial Star Destroyers (a mix I's and II's, including I's refitted/converted to II's) Technically, even 400,000 CIS warships is kind of modest if they have trillions of droids to go around between them. And by 'kind of modest' I really mean 'genuinely insufficient if you do the Maths'.
If your average warship can carry anywhere between a few tens of thousands to a few hundred thousand battle droids/various droid units of all types including infantry, tanks, starfighters, maintenance units etc, then you are going to end up with a figure which corroborates the idea of at least hundreds of Billions, and justifiably Trillions, in the CIS military in grand total.
For instance, a typical warship in the CIS Navy was a _Munificent_-class frigate. A medium sized warship pretty much representative of the average line of best fit CIS warship you'd be likely to encountering during the Clone Wars, and one of, if not the most common. There were very many other Separatist warships in all shapes and sizes, though arguably, the _Munificent_-class does a good job at summarising the CIS Navy (for all it's serious flaws; see incredibly badly designed bridge)
A _Munificent_-class is typically operated by a skeleton crew of 200 Droids and sometimes an 'organic' captain, though primarily you'll see a Droid Commander in charge, with the yellow paint markings. Sometimes Tactical Droids were in command instead, increasingly, as the Clone Wars continued. There was passenger space for about 850 other crew and passengers. But according to the sources, each Munificent was allegedly capable of carrying 150,000 in-storage (presumably folded up) Battle Droids. A 'flatpack army' as it were. And if that was universally true of every Munificent at Coruscant, then you're immediately looking at tens of millions of Droids being lost in a single, long day. Millions of droids were landed on Coruscant. Surely hundreds of thousands if not millions were still fighting over Coruscant after they landed.
And remember, the overwhelming majority of the CIS Navy _is not_ present at the Battle of Coruscant, instead facilitating it being possible in the first place, by giving the Republic Navy a wild goose chase. But this is where the logical inconsistency of Star Wars in terms of it's own numbers, begins to really drag me out of the immersion into the lore. It's just too stupid to be realistic. The CIS Navy doesn't need to use the vast majority of it's navy to give the Republic the run-around across the Outer Rim.
And the entire Outer Rim Sieges thing is a mess of lore which doesn't make much sense either. The Republic winning serious victories against the CIS is possible, and could turn the tide, but the entire way shape of the war towards the end makes little sense. CIS numbers would still be enormous. It is canonical that Grievous had used most of the CIS Navy to divert presumably most of the Republic Navy far and wide across the galaxy.
The entire point about his more surgical strike on Coruscant, was, at least for him, a means of taking the Supreme Chancellor as hostage (only, he was too dumb to realise he was suspiciously similar sounding to Darth Sidious, whom he didn't realise was the same person) For Palpatine/Sidious, it was about the end game of the Clone Wars, discarding Dooku and moving a step closer to absolute power. The Separatists and Dooku were the fall guys for that to work. Controlled opposition, always meant to fail.
Still, if we ignore Palpatine's machinations and schemes, vastly impacting the Clone Wars (the entire war was his doing; billions of deaths, entirely his fault), then we can see that on paper and largely (but not entirely) in practice, the CIS Navy and Droid Army in general, _should_ be winning the war in most scenarios it is played out in.
[part 3] If a single _Munificent_-class is casually carrying 150,000 Battle Droids in storage, and there are thousands of these Munificents around the galaxy, likely tens of thousands, it starts to make you wonder how they could ever lose, _even with_ Palpatine hard-nerfing them into an unnatural defeat. The Clones, can simply not withstand such numbers. It's plainly ridiculous. 150,000 Battle Droids on one typical CIS starship, with bigger units like the _Lucrehulk_-class battleships carrying _millions_ of Battle Droids? Yeah, it just doesn't add up. Even if most of these are never deployed, even if the CIS is only really fighting with a small fraction of it's available droids (as on Geonosis; where >1 million out of 3.7 million they theoretically had around were still involved), it just doesn't seem right that the Republic can stand up to that.
Attrition alone would wear Republic forces down to their last reserves, galaxy-wide, in a matter of a few months. Even with stunning tactics and Jedi shenanigans hard-carrying the Clones through major victories they'd otherwise have lost (see literally the entire Ryloth Arc), they just can't keep up with CIS numbers. They _were_ ratio'ing them by a disgustingly sweaty margin of course, but this doesn't really matter. The CIS could have genuinely had an entire army of droids specifically allocated to fighting _one_ Clone, if the idea of several million clones is to be believed.
This is why I am convinced they have to come clean with this and just retcon it to be the case that the Clones were really around 50 Billion strong in number (at least, if not 100 Billion strong) Otherwise, it just doesn't make sense. The obsession with centralising everything on Kamino, never made sense. Why not have secret Kaminoan cloning facilities around the Rishi Maze all working together? Why make the Kaminoans just some backwater (literally water-world backwater) with one planet to rely on for everything?
Why not just make it easier and smarter and have them own a modest interstellar empire beyond the borders of the Republic, with their reputation being unknown to the Republic due to their own secrecy on a sector wide basis? Why does everything have to be such a secret regarding Kamino? It could always have been known to the Jedi and still used as a base of secret cloning operations. The idea of their entire economy relying on cloning is also silly. It's just not properly thought-through. A single planet will obviously have logical limitations in how many Clone Troopers it can expensively raise. Probably several million, as is thought. Though again, why couldn't this have been going on for longer, with or without growth acceleration? Why did it need to line up with the end of Episode I when things were put in motion? Just because of Sifo-Dyas and Dooku? No. It's just dumb.
Leaving the massive headache of the number of Clones to one side for a moment, going back to the CIS Navy matter, even if it's 'just' tens/hundreds of billions of Droid units galaxy-wide, then 400,000 to as much as 500,000 warships perhaps, makes a lot of sense. Even with 25,000 ISDs the Galactic Empire was struggling to control it's vast territory which was much larger than CIS space (it literally had the territory of the Republic _and_ CIS combined plus lots more added onto that subtotal of territory, during and after the Imperial Expansion Era as mentioned in The Mandalorian series)
It's part of why the whole Malevolence Arc made zero sense other than being a homage to WWII and the Hunt for the Bismarck (which it was obviously referring to) Why is the _Subjugator_-class Heavy Cruiser just a class of four ships? Literally _four_ warships. Yes, they are big lads, but so? There should still be dozens of them around. Instead, to make them seem more special than they are, to hype up the entire of a super-sized Separatist starship savaging space-stations (bleurgh alliteration bleurgh), and have a Bismarck for the Star Wars galaxy, then they are limited to that.
Now yes, a lone _Subjugator_-class going around massacring entire Republic fleets, presumably being responsible for killing literally hundreds of thousands of Republic personnel including many tens of thousands of Clone Troopers and Clone Naval Officers, in the space of a few weeks, would be a serious setback if the Republic really is fighting with just a few million Clones early-war. But why focus so much on _one_ ship? Because it's Star Wars, that's why. You know it, I know it. Everyone knows. It's just having fun with that toy space ship and we aren't meant to think about it too much. Obviously. But it is quite asinine and frankly dumb.
In TCW series a great deal of furore in the Senate is kicked up because the idea of 5 million extra Clones being ordered, is contested by Padme 'I'm a genius' Amidala and her ilk. Even though, for a Galactic Republic at _that_ scale, 5 million extra Clones (however individually expensive; and yes, they would be incredibly expensive per unit; though let's face it, they don't exactly have brilliant life expectancy during the Clone Wars) If Senator Amidala is getting her knickers in a twist over 5 million more Clones being added to the Grand Army of the Republic, then I suggest she return to Theed on Naboo for foundation level Maths lessons.
5 million extra for a galaxy wide war should practically be a weekly if not _daily_ quota they should be pushing for. Yet in TCW, Filoni spectacularly misunderstood numbers, and made 5 million some benchmark. 5 million wasn't ever enough. 10 million wouldn't be, either. Come back to me when the Clone Army is retconned to be 50-100 Billion strong and then we'll talk lol Until then, the Droid Army of _trillions_ will stomp them every single time even if Palpatine is doing everything he can to sabotage the Separatists from within via Dooku. Even if, billions were thrown away.
And yes, the idea of like 90-95% of the Droid Army being in various short-term and long-term storage locations (whether on board warships in storage units or container racks etc, or stored in massive underground complexes or planet-side fortresses), is a tempting concept. I like the idea of the CIS having 5 Trillion Droids in total, but usually about ~250-500 Billion _actually deployed_ and active at any given time. When they start suffering immense losses, they can dip into this vast storage pool and effectively possess a practically infinite number of replacements. Or, what would essentially be tantamount to that. Not true infinity, of course, just 'as good as infinite' numbers. They can never run out. It's just not going to happen.
If the Galactic Empire had billions/indeed trillions of personnel galaxy wide at it's height, why couldn't the CIS with droids they can crank out of a factory by the tens of thousands per afternoon? It makes absolutely zero sense for them to fail even if we factor in Palpatine being Palpatine, doing his thing, and the general incompetence and indolence of the Separatist Leadership of the Separatist Council. Even then, we would have to reconcile the fact that most of the CIS was still doing alright and not being turned into space debris _after_ the Battle of Coruscant.
This in turn, is why Utapau made little to no sense, either. Oh, what, Grievous is suddenly down to his last 10,000 or so available Battle Droids hiding out on some sinkhole cliffside in the backend of nowhere, with a Republic flotilla large enough to capture the planet 3 times over against the forces Grievous has there, literally getting himself stuck in a hole to die in? Why Utapau? What possible reason could the Separatists have for convening there and not on say, a far more heavily-fortified Separatist stronghold world? Why are they in bum f' nowhere with their cause in flames just because of losing at Coruscant? They should _still_ outnumber the Republic at least 100 to 1. It's a joke. It's just because Lucas didn't know how to end it properly. He made the CIS way too powerful to be defeated on his own terms. It doesn't make any sense.
I don't care if each Clone is taking out hundreds/thousands of Battle Droids in their careers, a lot of them will be perishing long before that is remotely possible. Not every Clone is some giga-chad clanker-spanker. He is going to be an average Joe Clone taking out plenty of droids, for sure, though still being gunned down horribly like half of his fellow Clones seem to be. And some Clones were just kind of _special_ (see Christophsis and the champion puncher Clone)
Multiple entire legions were completely wiped out to the last Clone during the Clone Wars. We don't even have a number for how many legions there even were, because nobody has any real idea how many there are (and if they are telling you they do know, they are flat out lying, because it was never clearly defined) We have the 501st so that implies a few things, though the way the writers define certain groupings of soldiers, throwing around Battalion like it is a Legion, throwing around Corps like it is a Legion etc just starts to get bewildering.
[part 4] Suffice it to say that if it were up to me, 50 Billion clones would be outnumbered 10 to 1 most days against an _active_ Droid force of at least 500 Billion. However, in storage, the CIS would casually have another 4,500 Billion aka 4.5 Trillion. Their navy should be about 500,000 major units strong. They should have at least 50,000 (if not 100,000, across all relevant classes, all told) heavier capital ships including but not limited to the _Lucrehulk_-class variants, _Providence_-class variants and the big variants of the _Recusant_-class.
They should then have an extra sprinkling of maybe 1,000 or so very big capital ships like the _Subjugator_-class Heavy Cruiser (I'd say there should be at very least 100 of them specifically, maybe 200-250, with the rest of that thousand being various other designs of dreadnoughts and heavy cruisers of a size which is greatly larger than a _Venator_-class Star Destroyer)
The Republic Navy should therefore have no fewer than 4,000-5,000 warships. Itself, still small for it's vast commitments, though genuinely likely considering they had to build that up from virtually nothing in the space of 3 years (and yes, their attrition rate would be bad; not as bad as the CIS Navy, which would certainly be losing several to a dozen times more ships on average) I have no problem with the Republic Navy being more like 10,000 or so major warships/capital ships towards the end of the war, just so long as the CIS Navy is then defined to have had 1,000,000 major units from medium frigates to super dreadnoughts.
In some situations a single _Munificent_-class frigate showing up would likely end a dispute if the Republic had something smaller (well, unless Jedi were involved, in which case, the Munificent might be in trouble; though with 150,000 Droids in storage, it really does beg the question, why were they ever so vulnerable to Jedi boarding actions when they could just swarm their own gaunt and empty corridors with overwhelming Droid numbers?) In other situations, the Republic will be in fleet strength, and it would take several times as many Munificents to overpower a smaller number of Venators.
Nevertheless, the idea of Grievous going from distracting the Republic Navy far and wide across the galaxy, and _then_ just jumping into his sinkhole on Utapau to die in it, in the space of a few days, makes absolutely no sense. The CIS was capturing about as many planets as it was losing. Yes, there is newer lore trying to claim the CIS was genuinely losing the war because of a string of serious defeats across the duration of the Outer Rim Sieges. But I'm not buying that blatant Deus Ex Machina contrivance. It's just bad writing. If even 10% of the CIS was actively engaged, the Republic would still have an existential crisis on it's hands. That is the main point here. Droids should always win given enough time and attrition. It's just that Palpatine made sure that did not happen.
I'd rather have 10,000 Battle Droids amble off an assembly line in one hour in one factory, than a batch of 200,000 Clones march out of training on Kamino after 10 years. It only remotely makes sense if we up the numbers for _both_ the CIS and the Republic, and have them numbering in the billions. Lucas didn't, and apparently Filoni also doesn't, have a basic grasp of galactic scale warfare. Plenty of other franchises are guilty of the same, even on a mere locally interstellar level.
The idea of 5-8 million or so Clones verifiably in the Clone Wars, makes as little sense as the idea of just 10,000 Jedi coming from a galaxy with literal quadrillions of sentient beings, on tens of millions of planets. A single Jedi of scrub level average quality would on average be representative of hundreds of planets by himself. Again, makes no sense. Plenty of planets would never have even heard of Jedi in all 25,000 years of their order, just because of how few each generation seems to have. Lucas originally wrote about there being over 100,000 Jedi in the 1980's when finalising Return Of The Jedi (originally, Revenge Of The Jedi, before he realised that sounded too Sith), but that somehow shrank to 10,000 ish by the Prequel Trilogy/PT.
Even a million Jedi galaxy wide would be a bit thin-on-the-ground out of a galactic population ranging between the quadrillions and the quintillions. It's bogus. Most of the Jedi aren't even that impressive. Some of their best Jedi Knights and Masters are, but yeah, plenty of them are complete jokes held in comparison to Dooku for instance. Dooku was weaker than Anakin yes, though we should remember he was near-peer with Yoda and basically 99.99% of the Jedi Order stood zero chance against Dooku in a 1 Vs 1. It _had_ to be the likes of Yoda, Kenobi and Anakin etc fighting him.
Otherwise they'd just get Dooku'd. And Dooku Dooku'd Anakin several times before he closed that gap. Using Dooku as a litmus paper for Jedi powers and quality, I'm afraid roughly ~ >9,990 of them would get obliterated by him without him breaking a sweat (and yes, that does in fairness include however many hundreds/thousands of padawans.younglings/initiates there were amongst their numbers, though it still matters)
If we narrow it down to say the top several hundred Jedi Knights and Masters that stand any sort of chance of even fighting in the same oxygen as Dooku, then almost all of them are still going to die against him. It's why Jedi routinely failed to apprehend Dooku during the Clone Wars. He outright made a mockery of pretty much all of them including Kenobi and Skywalker for a long time. Only Yoda and Windu really stood a credible chance of killing him (until Anakin and _maybe_ Kenobi joined that club and earned the 'ownership')
In theory, Windu could defeat Dooku. But my money would be on Dooku. They were basically perfectly matched. Yoda's old bros before Dooku left the Jedi Order. And with Dooku leading the CIS, his Sith loyalties and split loyalties as such aside, the CIS could ask for no better figure of leadership. It was just that, the vast majority of Separatists didn't realise Dooku was a Sith Lord capable of turning most Jedi Masters inside out. Windu was about as powerful as Dooku (though I would argue Dooku was slightly more powerful, though not by enough to make a clear difference)
Then it'd come down to the lightsaber and even Palpatine feared Dooku's lightsaber skills, after learning how close the fight between Yoda and Dooku was on Geonosis (and Yoda stans need to realise that _was_ a close fight in spite of Dooku running to evade obvious capture by the entire Grand Army of the Republic and remaining Jedi presence on Geonosis at that point) Just because Windu unnecessarily got hyped up and shown to allegedly defeat Sidious, in ROTS, doesn't necessarily mean he could do the same to Dooku. It's a completely different fight.
Not to mention that Dooku did defeat Windu in sparring at the Jedi Temple (only Dooku and Yoda ever did; and only Yoda ever defeated Dooku in sparring sessions) But what I think is underrated about Dooku, is that he was Yoda's apprentice. Yoda's actual, direct apprentice. Just as Kenobi knew Anakin better than anyone, Yoda knew Dooku better than anyone. And the same could have been said in reverse, for both pairs of Masters/former Masters and apprentices/former apprentices. If Yoda knew how Dooku ticked and how to get the better of him, then why are people so confused by the idea of Dooku being best poised to know the same for Yoda? Dooku was absolutely a credible risk to life for Yoda. One of the few who were.
We've seen Dooku defeat Yaddle, one of Yoda's species. This by itself doesn't necessarily mean Yoda and Yaddle were comparable, but she was several hundred years old and clearly very powerful and skilled with the lightsaber. Were she still around in the Clone Wars era, she'd be right up there (and it is debatable whether Windu would be significantly stronger in the Force than she was) amongst the strongest Jedi on the Jedi High Council. No, she's not Yoda and Yoda could be much better as a combatant, and he was much older than her. But still.
Dooku knew how to fight and kill Jedi Masters of Yoda's species. It was not impossible for Dooku to kill Yoda in lightsaber combat. It was _more likely he would lose to_ Yoda, yes, though if it came down to in, prime Dooku would probably be able to win in sparring matches with Yoda. Did he really spend his entire time as apprentice losing every single sparring match to Yoda? I just don't believe it. No more than we'd believe Anakin losing every sparring match to Obi-Wan. And yes, Obi-Wan was much weaker in the Force than Anakin, though he used his wits to outsmart him constantly. Can Dooku outsmart Yoda? Probably not. But if _anyone_ could it would be him (if not Palpatine; though Yoda did defeat Palpatine with the lightsaber, Palpatine overpowered Yoda with the Dark Side of the Force, in a close-run fight)
In now non-canon legends material regarding Dooku and Yoda, they were holding talks on the planet Vjun, before things turned ugly and the two ended up fighting. Dooku nearly killed Yoda twice during the duel, 'tagging' him twice (his lightsaber catching Yoda's clothing twice) He did slightly injure him with the intensity of the duel arguably surpassing that seen on Geonosis in canon. However, it wasn't as though Dooku had a clear advantage at any point, more or less that the two were just too good at cancelling each other out. Sort of like Kenobi and Skywalker. Dooku to Yoda was what Anakin was to Kenobi.
Yoda was always innately a bit stronger than Dooku in the Force, though it's questionable if this would _always_ be a decisive, duel-ending factor. Maybe. Sometimes. Especially when Dooku was younger. But as his skill with the lightsaber became legendary, Dooku would be able to force Yoda to essentially 'max out' to win (making Yoda pull out all the stops to win)
Star Wars should just drop stating hard numbers. Clearly they were more interested in doing a proper job with that during West End Games era because nothing has been established yet which gave them free reign. Now it's just counterproductive to continue doing it.
Thank you for this deep take into hard numbers in Star Wars, that was really interesting to read. I cannot comment on all matters you spoke about because there's a lot, but I must say that I agree with your opinion about the quantity of clones, droids, planets, and capacity of the ships. Your conclusions actually make a lot of sense. Thank you for this enjoyable analysis, Paleontologist!
Cool! Yeah id like more videos on the varius factories they used for the trade federation.
You should do a video on your thoughts on if the clone wars was not run by the sith and the outcome of it
Thanks for giving some more prequels content, been needing the nostalgia disney hasnt been able to provide
Why didn't the Republic use the droid factory to build their own battle droids?
Because
Palatine that’s why
Political non-starter. Battle droids would be largely seen as persona non-grata post-Naboo to Republic-aligned worlds.
They rather used their factories to produce new high-tech war material like juggernauts for their superior infantry.
Thanks for the deep dive into droid manufacturing.
It will be almost impossible for Disney to create a time period as awesome as the clone wars.
Creating new stuff isnt really their thing. Theyre focussing more on destroying or ruining old stuff.
@@abraham2172 stuff. thing. thing. stuff.
After Baktoid Armor Workshop was dissolved by the Empire, didn’t the survivors form Bakoid Industrial?
With how the CiS was broken up into multiple spatial volumes.
Having multiple manufacturing centers built up Probabaly helped them in the long run until palpatines machinations came through
There should have been several thousands of smaller factories all across the Galaxy, and the Confederacy Council should have realized that putting all their eggs in one basket was a really idiotic idea.
Gone. Reduced to Atoms
As they deservedly should be. Thus die all traitors.
Republic intelligence is watching this video with great interest
I would love to see more videos on the CIS factories!
They moved them past the Ural sector.
When I first saw the title of the video, I thought Raxus Prime would be among one of the factory worlds, but then I realized that it was the political home world of the CIS, NOT the industrial world.
Bleep bleep bleep bleep bloop bloop bloop song my beloved.
First Elder Scrolls now Star wars how many fictional places are named Balmora/Balmorra?
Yet one should wonder why the Republic didn't counter with their own mass clone spawning planets.
At least Geonosis wasn't a Republic defeat. Not a fan of First Battle of Bull Run scenarios.
Great video and lovely bits of info.
Great work! CIS FOREVER!
If you think abou it, if palpatine hadn’t interfered in the war, the clones would be overruned in months.
Now we're asking the real questions
What was the story of Tatooine in the Clone wars? What happened to Cloud city during the Clone wars?
What’s the background music used in the video?
Videos on the different mech worlds would be neat
Geetsly's: "Would you like to see more of-"
Subscribers: " Y E S "
First. Love all your clone wars videos. Question tho, how much of the old republic have you done? May not be as much to do videos on but I’d love to see more old republic
Same here
I’m a simple man. I see Wat Tambor, I click.
That thumbnail is fire
I want all the Starwars videos!!
Considering that (at least In Legends) the CIS had several Trillion Battle Droids they could even put the fight up after loosing the Main Factories. I mean even the Millions of Clones can’t destroy Trillions of Droids so fast
If the cis found the star forge it would've been waay different
Imagine if the CIS military industrial complex had a fleet of ship-board Droid factories kind of like the Tyranids from Warhammer.
Yay! A separatist video! The confederacy is my favorite faction! Roger roger!
Separatist is a pejorative term, I support democracy. Count Dooku was A Visionary , he was cut down in his prime by the Jedi enforcer....
I love these stories
The Senate was unfazed whenever Geonosis fell.
Baktoid's various companies and holdings only subcontracted some geonosian foundries, they were not themselves geonosian companies.
you gotta make videos on the old republic games PC and old 1-2 i eat your content up and always look forward to the next video
Cis forewer !!
Would love to see Star wars mech world
I believe you mean "Singularity Engine" and Geonosis didn't "fall." Fart-too simply didn't Like Creepio's present
They had multiple plants that can produce droids and ships
Yes more mech worlds
Nice
Going out of your way to hamper enemy production is a basic fundamental of war.
Essentially, when an enamy empire take one of my best forge worlds in Stellaris, like the U.S.S Yorktown "Yes you got that one, what about the other Yorktown"
Maybe Telti?
What if the republic got the mon calamari to help build their fleet?
Techno Union obviously had a large factory in Detroit..🤔
This is Canon for me!
Where are mouse droids made?
Freedom for the People of the CIS!
Shaka, when the walls fell.
WHERE WAS GONDOR WHEN THE DROID FACTORIES FELL
Where do u get this cis lore?
Any time you make content pertaining to Clone Wars you get an automatic like me and like 5 friends lol
It's my birthday so I'm leaving like
Juicy
They partied too much they ended up losing the war. One droid saw wat tambor puking while drunk several times .
Why the Confederacy never used Sith Worlds to build droid factories? Isn't it a good idea?
Trillions? Does this indicate the CIS had trillions of combatants? Or have these trillions of battle droids been built over decades and decades, for use as pre-Clone Wars private armies?
Obviously it was Kazakhstan.
CIS lost the war for the narratives plot armor, truth is if they truly fielded the absurd numbers in all ranks and military branches (navy, ground & air forces + allied militias) they would’ve and should of clapped the Republics galactic cheeks and steamrolled them at best and advanced with good progress but delayed somewhat at worst. The droid army was no joke and those space wizards with colorful vroom vroom popsicle laser swords wouldn’t have been enough even with the force to clap such a force without papa palps meddling and grand plan, bunch of bullsith if you ask me. Gimmie ten million+ commando droids with the confederacy full naval might and I’ll give you a Star Wars galaxy on a clone troopers asscheek platter.
जय श्री राम
One of the foundries of the CIS was Tredegar Iron Works in Richmond, Virginia… wait…
Sorry, but you are wrong about the Republic having an "industrial advantage". The official "Star Wars Rebels" TV show says that the Confederacy greatly outnumbered Republic forces at the end of the Clone Wars. That the Droid shutdown command is what saved the Republic.
Yes more videos please