How to Raise a Baby - Heather Heying | Maiden Mother Matriarch 63
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- Опубліковано 15 чер 2024
- My guest today is Heather Heying - evolutionary biologist, co-host (with her husband Bret Weistein) of the Darkhorse podcast, and also the co-author of 'A Hunter-Gatherer's Guide to the 21st Century: Evolution and the Challenges of Modern Life.'
We mostly spoke about babies! On the modern guidance on breastfeeding, co-sleeping, and sleep training, and the tensions between a science-led approach and parental intuition.
In the extended version of the episode we also spoke about the use of infanticide in human history, why Western women are more prone to postpartum depression, and why we need more sex specific research and guidance on health issues, particularly diet.
02:54 Letting go of intuition
09:05 Terrifying young mothers
16:32 Intuition is not unscientific
24:40 Breastfeeding
32:55 Maternal love the original form of love
36:04 Infanticide
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#LouisePerry #HeatherHeying #MaidenMotherMatriarch
Letting your child self-soothe, giving them a little chance to do that is one thing, but allowing a child to 'cry out' or cry for ages & ages is just child abuse to me. Parents don't go into this sleep training method for that reason, but it's just so sad. What the child is learning is when it cries, often no-one comes. :(
I agree! When I was a new mom I got so much pressure from friends and family to leave my baby alone in a room to cry. It went against every maternal instinct and I just knew it was wrong in my soul. So glad I didn’t listen! Who ever came up with this theory hates babies fr.
I’m a single guy who wants to be a Dad. I so appreciate that I have people to listen to on channels like this because I don’t have parents who can give me this kind of advice nor explains things to the extent
Both Louise and Heather’s maternal energies feel as powerful as their intellectual chops
I've had 4 babies in my lifetime and even now when the youngest is 6 and oldest is 17 I'm still a crazy light sleeper lol. Much less when they were actual babies!! Every little movement and sound would wake me, still does, and they weren't even in my bed! They were, however, in the room only a few feet away so I could tend to them immediately when needed. And I didn't co sleep, not because I was afraid to hurt them lol, but because they slept so well in their own lil beds and I wanted to make sure I could rest as well as possible under the circumstances. If they'd been in my actual bed I'd probably have spent all night staring at them lol I just loved them so much. And anytime I DID feel the need to have them in my bed, if they were sick or not sleeping well that night, I had no problem doing it. Babies need to know they are loved and cared for. You have plenty of years after the first one to start teaching them independence and making sure they're not overly spoiled. The first year is all about them.
Louise at one point in her life wrote a thesis about infanticide and at another she checks out trigger warnings to avoid watching content in which children die. What happens in between is that she has a baby. There's a whole other thesis to written about the implications about the sort of consciousness-shift simply becoming a mother can effect.
Ohh I can't wait to listen! Just had my daughter in December after a traumatic labor/birth & phheewww, motherhood is quite the trip!
I know it's so hard at the beginning. But I promise that when your baby blows out the candles on that first birthday, you will marvel at how much you have both changed. You will wonder how you were ever not a mother. Hold tight, trust yourself and nature.
enjoying the two of you together. what a lovely thoughtful conversation.
ooh i absolutely love Heather and Darkhorse podcast :D this is such good timing too, I'm a first time mum with my 7 week old baby boy asleep on my lap as i watched this. Yes to breastfeeding and cosleeping they are the two things that make me feel like i'm doing mothering "right"
What a lovely discussion, ladies. I’ve had basically this exact conversation with many women recently, and it’s a great feeling to just nod my head and enjoy you two discussing common sense motherhood.
Thank you for recording this so I can be a fly on the wall. ❤
Ooh I'm going to snuggle up with my 4 week old daughter and watch this ❤❤
I'm going to stop pulling my hair out over my my 8bmonth old sleep and snuggle up to watch this too.
My wife has been told more often from her mom and sister that its okay to not breastfeed, then she has received encouragement and praise for actually breastfeeding. Here we are nearly 1.5 years later - she's still nursing our son. Everyone comments on how bright, pleasant, and alert he is. He's crushing milestones, and hasn't gotten sick yet. Our one niece was grossed out and awkward about my wife nursing. MIL was grossed out by the keepsake breastmilk earrings my wife was wearing. Don't make me even mention when she found out he isn't circumcised. Imagine if she found out he's not vaccinated. Our son has nursed to sleep every night. We just moved him into our bed, and we are all sleeping great. We wake up together, we spent our day together. We treat him like a member of our family, not an annoyance. We created him because we wanted him, and he will know that. It really helps you realize who of your friends & family is like minded in the most important ways.
Since I'm pregnant I've been searching for podcast/information of Heather and Bret talking about evolutionary approach to raise children. (also have read their book). Now I'm 37 weeks pregnant when this podcast was going live I couldn't be happier. Always listen to Louise her podcast as well. Really interesting converstation. Only dissapointment that is was so short!
Have more children! Congratulations!!
Thank you for this conversation. When you talked about your baby crying and being very distressed by it, as a father when my first child would cry, I would have an immediate stress response, a rush of adrenaline and a very strong desire to alleviate the reason for crying. I also had to later learn how not to be gamed as Dr. Heying states. With my second child I have had to deal with the same stress response, but luckily I am more aware of when I am being gamed as my 2nd gets older.
This was a great conversation! Love both of your work. 💓
Amazing guest
Yay Heather!! ❤❤❤ love seeing this match up.
41:24 sorry Louise, I have to call this out but Christians have always been against abortion even if they didn't necessarily believe that it was a child in the womb before quickening. All christians thought it was gravely immoral to procure an abortion even if it wasn't murder, for instance, Augustine didn't think it was murder but thought it was gravely sinful because he believed sex without procreation was evil, and therefore if you were to destroy a fetus before quickening you have now made that sexual act evil.
However, there were also lots of people in the early church that did find this to be murder. We can see this in the didache (first christian catechism we have), letter of barnabas, and athenagoras all of these sources were written within one to two generations of the apstoles. Now that we have the science to prove that it is infact a human being before quickening the Catholic Church has stated that it is murder. Granted, I will excuse this because if you're looking at england then most likely you're looking at protestantism which overall is divorced from historical christian positions. However, to say that this was the early Christian position is just false.
Sources:
“The second commandment of the teaching: You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not seduce boys. You shall not commit fornication. You shall not steal. You shall not practice magic. You shall not use potions. You shall not procure [an] abortion, nor destroy a newborn child” (Didache 2:1-2 [A.D. 70])
What man of sound mind, therefore, will affirm, while such is our character, that we are murderers? . . . [W]hen we say that those women who use drugs to bring on abortion commit murder, and will have to give an account to God for the abortion, on what principle should we commit murder? For it does not belong to the same person to regard the very fetus in the womb as a created being, and therefore an object of God’s care, and when it has passed into life, to kill it; and not to expose an infant, because those who expose them are chargeable with child-murder, and on the other hand, when it has been reared to destroy it” (A Plea for the Christians 35 [A.D. 177]).
Thou shalt not slay the child by procuring abortion; nor, again, shalt thou destroy it after it is born” (Letter of Barnabas 19 [A.D. 74]).
Thanks to Louise and Heather!
As an introvert and an older mom, I missed a lot of mommy communing, but I also missed the doubting and comparisons. I followed my babies, not the trends such as they may have been. Lucky to some extent (marriage, health, finances), if you call good life management "luck." I wouldn't bother to change the child-raising, even in the first 3 wishes!
What evolutionary advantages might there be to have one’s offspring cry inconsolably in the cave next door?
Balancing the fact our forebrain is what separates us from being a base animal, but not relying too heavily on science is definitely a tightrope walk. We got here because of our reliance on science, yet we are told to trust our intuitions over studies. God forbid you are someone of lower IQ. You are doomed to just trust what people around you say, or hope your intuitions will be enough.
Yes point taken. Personally I take the Eric Weinstein position between Sam and Bret. Gotta say though, "science" always 👍 and "scientism" always 👎 case closed.
@@Jules-Was-a-Liberal I often joked about the Chad scientific method observer, VS the soyjak "The Science TM" corporate shill.
Less educated people might also be more likely to simply follow their intuition. Of the social determinants are balanced they'll probably be OK.
Two of my favorite ladies, cheers.
Six-month-olds require speedy remedy to distress. Then taper responses. Per our friend, Jordan Peterson, social psychology, and developmental neurology. This hypothesis I would accept for practice. And, oh, I did it 30 years before I knew.
children are by nature born self centered. This is not bad it is just the way things are. It takes many years to become a caring, balanced, social adult. hence ....it takes a village to raise a child.
Is there ever a time when CIO is ok? I have heard and seen firsthand that the baby goes to sleep faster and longer, and does not have as many sleep related issues longterm. It seems maybe someone should either do complete CIO or bedsharing. Any in between creates too much additional stress on the baby.
The baby probably sleeps well because it’s exhausted from crying 😅. I had my baby right next to me in a bassinet every time he cried I would hold him and he would go right back to sleep. Yeah it was exhausting but safer than co sleeping and not as cold as CIO. I think emotional stability and development of a baby is more important than my own sleep.
Do you sleep for 8 hours solid every single night? Why not? You are old enough to not wake up. If baby animal fosterparents ignored the baby animals, they would die. Althoug human babies wouldn't die after a couple of days, the stress caused has a knock on effect, just like any stressful or traumatic experience adults moght have.
CIO causes severe abandonment trauma in babies because they can't self soothe (their mind is not developed enough for that). They sleep because they have learned that no one is coming when they voice their need. I think it's a dangerous method and I'm quite shocked that it still seems to be so popular.
One night only, live@ the Newark Prudential Center...WWF Smackdown, Couples Night...Bret&Heather vs. Sam&Annaka...winner fights the Undertaker!!
Hello Helen
"Home is where Mother is." Oh, but that may change when maiden-daughter becomes mother. Maiden Mother Matriarch.
Heather eh and Louise
This is a good one, Louise eyes look beautiful in this.
👀
I hypothesize that female Australopithecus / Homo habilis invented symbolic communication-language as names for children for childcare. Professor
I wonder why conception and birth can be dismissed as arbitrary points at which a child should be protected from abortion, but viability outside the womb is not.
George Carlin said "You need live births to make dead soldiers."
That's very interesting, intellectual honesty is required to acknowledge that judgement calls factor into one's position. The reason I think only 1st tri abortion should be legal (except those life-threatening exceptional cases) is because, our best understanding of consciousness and perception suggests that those begin in an early form at almost exactly that stage, when the sensory organs begin to develop. However (here's the point) why should consciousness be the arbiter? Why not something else that seems important too, like an earlier stage of biological development? I completely acknowledge that I don't have an answer here, except that consciousness just seems like the most important variable to me. This isn't a caveat, because everyone else could be wrong, but it's noteworthy that this seems to match most ppl's intuitions. The majority have thought for a long time, that 1st tri seems less bad, later seems worse. Also, when a coma patient is reasonably guaranteed to be, and remain 'brain dead,' most ppl think that's what's important, the person's gone, and pulling the plug is not wrong. Consciousness seems to be the thing most ppl primarily value, because it seems to contain everything we all care about, but tbh my a priori moral reasoning capabilities pretty much only extend as far as this.
@@Jules-Was-a-Liberal I get that consciousness seems like an intuitive metric, but it's actually a pretty slippery one. Do people have fewer rights when they're asleep or passed out? Do people have fewer rights if they're mentally impaired?
In the case of the brain dead patient on life support, there might be a distinction to be made between allowing someone to die (by pulling the plug) and ending a life (which would/could, without interference, continue to tick along just fine until birth)
@@Lindsay_Mason I'm not sure your first point is very strong imo. But I think the second point is excellent, it's something I've thought about.
First, if we're talking abt ppl who've never been conscious before, or never will be again, I just think it's easy enough to separate those considerations, from the other less extreme instances you mention.
Second however, absolutely, the fetus might be like a coma patient who's never been awake before, but it's also like a coma patient that is going to wake up. Do those two things cancel out? That would be convenient. But really, you're right, there's not necessarily a great answer to this.
I'd say, we get the best counter argument by taking this same point, and tracking it farther backwards:
So, 1st tri will 'wake up' eventually. But, so will embryo right after conception, eventually. So will reproductive material when the process is farther down the road, eventually. So by this logic, no masturbating? No contraception? Reproductive material is regularly broken down and replaced in your body I believe (if you're male) if you don't reproduce. So, should the natural biological process itself, be indicted for genocide?
This is why, the 'going to be' conscious entity, that has never been conscious before, should not be treated legally nor morally as though conscious, nor afforded the same value and rights.
OR, heres a revolutionary idea.. dont have unprotected sex unless you are sure you want a baby with that guy.. MIND BLOWN@@Jules-Was-a-Liberal
Good frank discussion until the end when you had to slip into the euphemism of "choice" when discussing infanticide.
Interesting. Only highly educated mothers reads the guidelines? That’s a bit strange. Also, that mother instinct, the urge, so to speak, to co sleep - they don’t have that in the same way as the highly educated mother…?
Mammal mothers have maternal instinct; it was not selected against in the evolution to humans-mammals.
They mostly have it, but a certain number turn out broken. It's a reason some people will find abandoned animal cubs in the woods. I suppose humans with a broken instinct can sometimes sense it, that's why certain people opt out of reproduction.
💋🌹💋
I was walking down a hall at a high school some years ago and we were talking and I said, "White men confuse their egos with their intellects". She responded with a very emphatic, "That's Right!"
So where exactly did those "scientific" errors come from?
And what do black men do?
@@BlueinRhapsody
Waste time on sports.
I offered to pay some neices and nephews to read a few science fiction books I selected. They refused. SF made science more interesting than the White science teachers I eventually got.
Try:
A Fall of Moondust by Arthur C Clarke
He used Plato's Allegory of the Cave to explain infrared perception of reality.
@@psikeyhackr6914 Arthur C. Clarke is great! Shame your nieces and nephews weren't interested!
I've had all white and asian science teachers. I've always loved science and found their classes interesting, so I guess I don't understand why you found white teachers particularly unengaging.
@@BlueinRhapsody
I said "SF made science more interesting" the only science teachers I ever got were White. SF stories were not as narrowly focused as science classes. I got straight A's in all of my science courses but it was memorization without perspective.
You can most certainly get squeamish about eating fruit if you try hard enough! Mmm, swollen ovaries are such a tasty snack! See? Now it's weird!
Hey Heather, why did the insurrection happen right before I was gonna go to Evergreen to build my own curriculum, also can you confirm that this was an elaborate plot against me specifically?
Same boat. Graduated in 2016, and thank god I started grad school straight away since the 2017 insurrection devalued my degree, but I was far enough into my MS that I could watch the campus burn and just be thankful I got out when I did.
What are you talking about?
Hey goddamit wait a minute! Things I mentioned on last vid: psychobehavioral research, provincial and cultural heterogeneity, school choice, wearing hipster glasses, and analog hipster vibes.
Louise, firstly, if I finished studying mirroring vs. reverse-mirroring, I would know which one this is.
Secondly, you probably need to make your husband be in comment section and pick up on his thematic vibes instead, because this feels like virtual adultery, and I'm a good Christian boy who doesn't want to go to virtual hell.
Let's not forget how _not_ to raise a baby. The secret is flabbergastingly simple, folks: start by not having any.
After not having them, you can spend your time, energy and talent in not raising the children you have not put into this world.
I dont deserve this.
You only ever get what you deserve, homeslice. ~Corinthians 27:35
Heather is great but Louise is still a Feminist in her own words
That was great. But you're still not getting my money.
The snobbery that only "highly educated women" read books and research before their babies are born is actually quite nauseating. The more i watch Louise the more of the snobbishness is see. Which is unfortunate.
Just because you may be an outlier doesn’t dismiss the reality that most adults don’t read, period.
She didn't say "only." She said "most likely to," which is undoubtedly correct.
im all for snobbery
Especially since overeducated women are the least likely group to enter and enjoy motherhood. Education for women in modernity means educating them as men....so most modern reading for educated women is male centered. There is a chronic lack of understanding for the needs of children and families among high achieving women.
If you're reading books and research then by definition you are educated, even if it's self-education.