What's happened with our PLANNING PERMISSION?
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- Опубліковано 7 лют 2024
- It's a marathon not a sprint but the finish line is in sight! We have finally had some progress with our latest application.
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#selfbuild #barnconversion - Навчання та стиль
Just to clarify, I don't really think that the LA are insisting we retain an asbestos roof because they love the stuff. It's more the act of it being replaced with a new roof covering that they feel is excessive for a building conversion. The fact the roof can be changed with no issue as an existing farm building or after as a dwelling doesn't help our frustration. 😂. Thankfully it's heading in the right direction now. 🤞
LA put hurdles in the way and don't look open-minded on making buildings better to live in and improving otherwise useless buildings if not changed
That makes absolutely no sense. You can not equate the removal approval of a hazardous building material to setting a precedent in relation to converting (for example) a non hazardous roof (tile) to another type of non hazardous material (steel). If it sets a precedent of any kind it would that any barn conversion involving asbestos then that material could/should be removed as a priority if the applicant so wishes (wall panels, insulation, roof sheets et al). The UK is utterly bonkers and has lost the plot.
On asbestos you may be able to go to the local authority ombudsman for support. LAs have some duties under health and safety legislation not to get in the way of properly managed asbestos removal. 🤙🏼
I feel for you both! Bloody Councils, always contradicting themselves, moving the goal posts, and the one thing in all their department they have in common, NO COMMON SENSE!
I hope I never have to deal with them ever again!
Stay strong guys, see you dream come true💪
It sounds to me that your local council doesn't want any barn conversion of any type,you've been more than willing to adjust your plans to meet their demands only to be given another hurdle to jump. I hope you're able to move forward sooner rather than later and begin the next chapter of your families adventures,best of luck.
I don’t know how you keep smiling and sounding so positive. I would have chained myself to the LA building and protested by now.
Given everything you are doing to retain farming in the area, helping eco diversity etc, they should be looking at your application with a “how can we help mentality “.
Don’t worry about not putting out enough UA-cam content whilst you wait to start the build. I won’t be cancelling my Patreon subs just because the LA lost sight of their purpose.
Barrie
Apart from the obvious cost, this is a perfect example for the use of an appeal. The national policy is NATIONAL and that is why you see barn conversion’s approved across the country and the same should apply for yourselves.
We put our appeal in back in June/July. Haven't had much more than an email or two of progress with that but we may as well wait and see what comes of it.
I can feel your pain and frustration. Keep going forwards 👍
Totally frustrating but you’ve both been so positive, don’t give up now. Seems like your planning consultant is top notch. Love the hair Jo.
Fingers crossed that sense prevails, and you can get building...❤😊
When you say your seeing others getting on with their barn conversions , can you tell me what website is that ? Love to see more people building their own home as that’s what I want to do.
Thanks for the up date. Fingers crossed that you finally get what you want.
Living in Australia I just can’t believe that you would have a local planning authority that would want you to retain an asbestos roof, given the huge health implications. Here there are active moves to replace anything with even a small amount of asbestos in it .
OMG your frustration is tangible,and im not surprised.Good luck with the latest dealings!!!
Paused this as I comment so as yet I don't know the outcome.
Our rather modest two storey extension has recently been refused and the architect is remodeling to fix a concern. So I sympathise, at least we gave a house, tiny but it's there with a large garden...anyway enough of our woes. I'm just glad we sit between the Lake District National Park and the Yorkshire Dales National Park (an easy walk, about thirty minutes into each, east and west). I'm hoping when I continue to watch it's a good outcome......hope ours is too. Small thing to the Council but huge game changer for those putting in the planning permission
So, fingers crossed and .... play🤞🤞
Planning a large book of Grey. No hard and fast rules. Very much an opinion
Edit: You could always loose control of the dumper. As long as you bring down the wall so the roof is damaged, can’t replace it like for like as it is as asbestos. That is what the big developers do
I assume a decision has already been made, given the honesty of the experience. Good luck and wishing you the best for the next update.
Whatever happens you should get in touch with the media and give them the story that the council wants to force you with a young family to live in a house with an asbestos roof! It is an election year so the councilors can tell this senior manager where to go!
It was quite tempting but not sure that would be in our best interest. No doubt would make some click bait headlines though. 😂
Hi Tim & Jo, I've been following you since the beginning of this latest project and wondered if you'd share the details of the other planning projects you mention in the early part of this update. Channels that I'm aware of are 'Living off grid in Scotland/Lochnaw Smithy', 'Off grid Scotland', The small farmer life', 'Camp Out West'. Kris Harbour', The Aden Project' and The of fgrid family'. Any additional channels or portals where we could follow and learn, would be very much appreciated. We purchased land early this summer and a have plans to live there one day. Keep up your resilience and good to hear that the light at the end of the tunnel is in view, even though you guys have had to make changes to accommodate the NPPF/LA interpretation. Best Wishes Paul & Vanessa
Surely getting rid of asbestos is a good thing. Should have just called it student accommodation. If you know Oxford then you know. 😉
Hi guy great videos keep up good work 👍
It’s fair if you want to convert a barn here in Cornwall you have to retain 80% of the original features on the outside. Changing the roof type and cladding is a big change and wouldn’t be allowed here either.
You can't get rid of the asbestos roof?!? Oh mate you're a brave man to fight for this.
Feeling your Frustration/Anger over the obstacles being put in your way. From my point of view surely it should be a big thank you for getting rid of the asbestos roofing (from a health and safety standpoint) rather than denying permission point blank. Good luck with the rest of the process. Today you lost a battle you did not lose the war. Later 🤨👍
Hi, is there no way to sue them for being ‘awkward buggers’? Are they making it up as they go along, making decisions based upon arbitrary personal preferences rather than appropriate guidance. It seems they are trying to prevent the work by making the planning process so awkward and expensive.
I feel your pain having to deal with the same LPA. There is no dialogue, and they push any response to the absolute deadline.
There are a few words i could use to describe them at the council and none are acceptable to YT lol
Good luck Tim & Jo. I'm amazed that a council would want a 50 year old asbestos roof to be retained. You would of thought that common sense would suggest now is the right time for it to be replaced on the basis that its reached end of life & also from a health and safety perspective.
Hopefully you'll be able to progress with your project very soon 🤞🏼
Hahahahahahaha you just assumed the planning dept had some common sense.
From a common sense standpoint you'd actually expect the opposite ... mandatory removal of the asbestos roof, even if it was to remain a barn or class Q, as it is potentially hazardous for everybody around.
so basicali you are not allowed to change potentionaly carcenogic material on your own building ? seems reasonoble
LA logic.
What happens if the barn simply needs a new roof as it stands now? Do they expect you to source some lovely new asbestos to replace the panels?
Hang in and it will come good one day
Feel for you all. Planners in Cornwall are no better. Comes down to what they like weather than is it within guidance.
I really feel for you, there seems to be no logic to planning approvals now and purely based on subjective opinions. 🤞there will be some good news soon.
Do it in such a way where you can replace the roof easily in the future.
Id just put a tin roof or whatever you're planning before doing the build. It's a farm building and it needs a new roof. What are they gonna do make you put the asbestos back?
Awful situation, I can feel your frustration, it must be so disheartening for you both, fingers crossed 🤞 that you get the result you hope for.
khu rừng phía sau có vẻ ít cây, và thưa thoáng. tôi thì trồng cây mắc ca phủ xanh vùng đất. đem lại kinh tế ổn định
Arghhhhh! Should have kept the £3k and put it in a brown envelope with the application. Sure it would have been approved then!
Just replace the roof without permission. What are they gonna do about it if the asbestos has been disposed of?
You made the rookie mistake of not setting fire to it before you applied for planning...🤣
Back when he was doing some structural welding on the farm. You have to be so careful, it so easy for fires to start
Can you not get rid of the asbestos as you have a duty of care as the farm owner and loable person to ensure the health and safety of all employees of a working farm... Under HSE.
Tbh at this poiny id smile and wave, nod, go with the signed off plan, get it built and checked off... and then swap out the roof etc. the following year. Or accidentally have someone smash through half the roof during build.
I am involved with planning work and this week am just about to submit an application to convert a brick barn into two houses. In our case we need to add about 15% of the original footprint to make it work. The LPA in this case recommended via the Pre App submission that we went for a full application, not Class Q. Fingers crossed. My main concern though is how the planning system is working, or isn't. It seems completely wrong that an application can be processed without the applicant being able to meet with and fully engage with the planners. They argue that they are short of resources to have meetings. Other agencies are the same - try speaking to someone at the Environment Agency. In your case 5 different applications and endless reports would appear to be completely OTT. It would have been far better for the Case Officer and the his/her boss to come to site to work through the pertinent issues. Overall that would have saved a load of every ones time.
I'm a planner, it's not easy, real shortage of good planners. Resources are so tight. Have to work within policy. Roof thing is bonkers.
Hi Tom.
I got a quote for 46 garden slabs at 450x450 and some concrete edging with stone chips.And a new 10x8 tongue and groove garden apex shed to be installed all for 3k including all materials. Would you think this is reasonable? It's a new property only built last year. Thanks and keep up your tube videos!!!
I'm afraid I have never had a quote or paid anyone to do landscaping or building work so have no idea. Perhaps someone else can help... if not DIY. 👍 Tim
so will the children be at university before this is resolved?
Is that back ground noise the wind?
Ongoing Saga or What! Feel for you all. Seems to me that the people making the decisions drag things out to justify their job and their particular tastes there’s no sensible middle ground.
I just can not believe they are insisting on keeping ASBESTOS. I know of a location where there is a mass of Asbestos Roofs and one of the biggest challenges is to control was Moss Growth and birds removing the moss which then also releases fibres from the sheet material. This roof needs to come off and this planning Officer is ill informed of what the right thing to do is.....its not as if this is a listed building!! Your patience is immense but this behaviour from the council is why we need our government to bring change in respect of planning rules. And their communication policy is just unbelievable and it could only be implemented within the Public Sector!! Keep your 'Will' both, you deserve an immense outcome and to be allowed to create a great, thoughtful and where possible a sustainable home.
Oxford say no more 🤪
British bureaucracy! Frustrating process. Don’t stress too much. Keep enjoying farm life, the animals and the land and accept that the build may have to be a bit of a compromise. So long as it’s warm and dry. If I may add, a word of caution about sharing too much on YT as you never know who in planning may be watching your channel! We got refused a grant because the council bods found out about stuff on our social media 😮. Anyway, hope all gets resolved soon.
I guess this is a few days in the past and all is well now.
I am amazed that the planning people refuse to change so much of what essentially (and from what I have seen in your videos is an old ugly barn building which you want to revitalise into a new dwelling that will provide a large family space, economically powered and built, rejuvenating the property substantially.
Why is it that one person can bollix up the works? You have been far more patient than I at this point. 😑
It’s insane that they are fighting to retain a health hazard (asbestos roof). Even if you had zero plans to use that structure for a home and just wanted to make some changes for housing livestock… shouldn’t removing asbestos be something the town/city would WANT you, the property owners, to do??
This is mind-boggling. You have incredible patience.
“Let” a storm remove the roof for you and then there’s no alternative, you can’t replace it with a another asbestos roof!
Is it because you want to change to a different covering? I heard you mention steel profile. How about if you changed like for like. Just asbestos free.
Not sure on the Regs in the UK but most places if a roof containing asbestos needs repair, it is against the law to put the asbestos back on.
I hope they give the green light for you to get on with the project.
Trying to extract some sort of positive from this 💩 storm; if the LA are classing it as a new build, you’ll score for the VAT. Might make up for the excessive fees you’ll have had to pay your growing list of consultants. Keep ahold! 💪
Even as a barn conversion we can get the 20%, just slightly different route. It might be costly but our new consultant has been worth every penny so far. 👍
Interesting. Do you know if that's due to it being agricultural; I was sure that conversions didn't qualify (have been mad enough to contemplate converting a couple of churches recently 🤔. Really hope you get the decision you're after. @@TheRestorationCouple
Can't you remove the asbestos roof now as it is at the end of its life, and replace it with a cement based alternative with the same profile?
Can you not keep the cladding and clad over it
Unfortunately not. Thankfully we found a compromise...
So frustrating dealing with these people. Could you do any of the external work while its still a barn, would that need planning permission? Could the old roof be 'damaged' in a storm?
You obviously aren't greasing the right palms
Why would they have an issue with you wanting rid of Asbestos roof!!! From a health and safety perspective its a given as long as it is dismantled and removed from the property properly?
How much have you engaged with your MP on the re purposing of former farms a Gov priority but finding g unnecessary resistance from local councils planning that are wasting council resources.
👊🫡
Could you not just replace the roof with new cement board?
It's the act of it being replaced as part of conversion rather than material itself. Thankfully we have made some progress now. 👍
Why can’t you leave the roof until you finish the building and then just replace it with whatever you want, because it has gone bad and is leaking? Just curious.
Nightmare. I'm just 🤞🏼🤞🏼🤞🏼
So how are councils chosen? Are they elected?
It would be such a shame if something were to fall on and irreparably damage the current asbestos roof.
She's a stubborn beast, I though the recent storms might have had a go but no luck! 😂 To be honest it's a great material apart from the health implications. It's very sound for something that was fit and forget 50 years ago.
.
I think you should have appealed this application for failure to determine
Planners are a breed apart. They seem to exist purely to frustrate small developers, they hate them with a vengeance and seem to be there solely for the purpose of being obstructive. Every single small builder and homeowner I know has this same opinion and yet they find it perfectly acceptable to doll out permission for blocks of flats to be built that they know full well will not only be an eyesore but also further stretch and dilute all services that are already in crisis, water, sewerage, gas, electricity, schools, dental, hospitals, healthcare etc etc all because there will be a nice bung in it along with community contribution charge, section 105 charge and not to mention thousands in council tax charger per household.
Around the Town I live in there are currently planning applications, expected or received or building in progress for around 10,000 flats in a town whose population is around 160, 000. That is huge and should not be tolerated. The current planning laws and those supposedly administering them are way past being not fit for purpose..
Our local council brought a house and put in front of their own planning for change of use,,,, guess what after 96 complaints from local people....... It passed. Local council don't get me started 😡🤬
My thoughts for today class Q was intended to help farmers /farm workers and farming families re purposes redundant farm buildings by way of change of use to residential use
your situation fits this perfectly as planning legislation originally intended, I do understand the need to keep the building as original as possible to its true nature and heritage but also we have to make sure with clever design that the build is fit for purpose in the 21st century with u value’s insulation and running costs. It’s important that the build keeps sympathetic to its original purpose, look and design.
It’s more like building a barn than a house in many respects maybe look at big six profile structural insulated. Steel sheet panels as a roof compromise? That mirrors exactly the roof look and profile of the original roof but brings it up to modern insulation spec tricky as it could be argued class Q is a change of use of the existing structure, not a rebuild or replacement, thats probably the position of your LPA by the response so far
Internal sip roof would be another option for now with maybe a planning app down the line to replace the roof in totality but this is double or triple the expense compared to a re clad with sympathetic materials now
Unfortunately class Q interpretation differs hugely from different LPA’s but at least you have secured your fall back position with you hard fought approval of class Q It’s challenging but pressure makes diamonds 👊
Sometimes, a person is so rigid in their own dislike of your plans, should they remain in their own job...... contact your MP he maybe able to help.
I wonder why so many people do building work without approval? 🤔
If it the council approval is anything like here. It depends more on who you support for election than the content of the request. Have you been able to suss out who is on each side. There are always sides!
The cladding could be that Shou Sugi Ban Japanese burnt wood. They did that in grand designs it looked ok. Only cosmetic anyway.
They are happy with the existing cladding being redecorated so it's an option. Had planned to do the cabin that way but decided against it in the end. Still want to try it using a conveyer and my double ended gas forge, perhaps a future experiment.
actualy its not only cosmetic, it preserves the wood by making it undesirable for bugs to munch on and stops water absorbing into it.
@@TheRestorationCouple I saw them do that on the Canadian Woodworks channel. When I said cosmetic I should have said aesthetic. Shame you hadn’t already replaced the roof. I have mates who have dealt with planning you’re lucky if you get past reception. New build would have been ideal you’d get the VAT back then. Good luck anyway at least it’s not some soulless housing estate in the middle of nowhere. 👍
VAT still reclaimed on conversion, slightly different method but still 20% thankfullu.
I think its time to go above their heads. Especially if you are seeing similar builds doing similar stuff under the national guidelines. One could say its discrimination.
WELCOME TO AMERICA…..Oh wait….😮
It's insane that a single person has to jump through so many hoops and you're restoring it to a working farm and have already done so much for diversity. Meanwhile near me big developers are flattening fields removing hedgerows and green open spaces at a fast rate. Something is very wrong with U.K. planning
Removing an asbestos roof could open the council up to other people also wanting to remove their asbestos roofs in a barn conversion scenario? God the UK is a mental asylum....
"Their opinion" ! .... You spat that out ... 🤣
Precedent not President .....unless Obama is involved lol Great video!
Keep the asbestos roof......are they mad,at the end off its life !!!!!! What does the council want....a backhander 😂😂😂😂😂 I have a gun if you need 😂
I imagine it will not be helping that you are reporting back here about all the successes and set-backs from the planning process. They will sure as hell be monitoring your YT channel and as a result they will be making sure they they dot every i and cross ever t. I have the sneaking suspicion that the planners might also be getting leaned on in a probable negative way by some councillors. Councillors tend to be a think skinned, petty sort of human being with a very high opinion of themselves and if they get the bit between their teeth will be intentionally awkward. Have you ever spoken to your local councillor(s) ?
25 years ago, when I was married, we thought about moving to a house in York and the owner had had so so many planning applications turned down due to her being a trustee of a local conservation trust. I used to drive past that house many times over the next 2 decades and it was clear that the people who bought the house from the lady we saw had done all sorts of things to the house and its grounds well in excess of what the original owner wanted to do and never seemed to have an issue with planning.
As regards to your planning and the asbestos, I wonder what both HSE and Building Regs say about having asbestos in a building, even an agricultural building?
Planning Application 101:
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What's happened with our PLANNING PERMISSION? 🤨🤔
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Lesson No1;
DO NOT! Upset Your Local Planning Commitee On UA-cam After the 1st application - OOPS!! 😳
Thankfully we were sensible enough to not put any videos up until we had done 3 applications and already got the first approval just incase they found enough time to watch youtube. 😀 It would appear our struggles are echoed across all barn conversion apps in our LA so we're not alone.
You could replace asbestos with non-asbestos fiber cement roofing.
Why do you insist on metal?
It is about the amount of existing materials being replaced rather than what they are replaced with. Benefit of steel would be that it is significantly lighter, meaning additional insulation and potential ceilings would not add much load at all to the steel frame. Even new fibre cement are pretty heavy.
@@TheRestorationCouple Thank you.
I can't help thinking that, frustrating as it all is, airing it in public is not a great idea. I've dealt with Gov bureaucrats and they have the power to be awkward if they choose and for as long as they choose. They have no real skin in the game......whereas you seem to have jumped the gun somewhat and in the larger view taken their ultimate consent for granted. To then constantly moan in public is just going to put their backs up....they are bound to be watching all this stuff......silence and contrition are far better strategies IMHO.
How the hell can ( with the knowledge of asbestos ) be a point of confrontation … it’s nasty stuff and needs to be removed!
Is there genuinely no law or governance put on the LA. Is it really based on a subjective opinion?
Go for mass housing development. Apply direct through government. Then move on.
What is the matter with these people ? you’re looking to improve things at your cost and improving the area 😤 I don’t get it
I wonder if you being a youtuber has anything to do with it, are these bureaucrats watching these videos and reading the comments and have just taken it on themselves to make this as difficult as possible for you. Very unprofessional IMO.
I can't imagine our little online presence has anything to do with it. We had 3 refusals before we even mentioned the project in a video. It's more the system than the individuals that is frustrating, I imagine they have to be pretty thick skinned to public feedback!
Jeremy clarkson could have told you that the council in your area are nut jobs and prefer to work against you and not with.
It sounds like a load of bull crap these council people come up with they just don’t want you to do anything with a shitty old building that is not heritage at all.Would be better off leaving it as a shed and starting a brand new build I just don’t get why you are wasting your money and time
I had a bit of experience with a non-league football club I used to follow that was in the green belt area. It had permission to change the use of fields owned by the club to use as car parking space but only for matchdays and club events. They made the mistake of hiring out the carpark to an event run locally that would have left all local roads congested with parked cars if they hadn't and they were fined in thousands....the greenbelt and planning rules aren't soft in many respects. If you've got the experience you have of the type of home you used to live in that could be a source of ideas for how to present a conversion that is far more in tune with the significant local architecture, I'm wondering if you could rework what you want using more themes from the local buildings that your conversion could be inspired by as well. Maybe watch this to understand a bit about the mindset of the planning team - they may bend to traditional materials that are more expensive but evident in the most beautiful of the local buildings ua-cam.com/video/PtMLSpSXRBg/v-deo.html I was wondering quite a few things about whether you could clad blockwork with local stone to make it appear like a sandstone building or paint the asbestos roofing (which may cost as much as steel to make it look slate-like in colour or like a zinc roof) or try to get some cover over it to have a living roof - a sedum planted roof around the solar panels covering the asbestos but leave the asbestos exposed for the time being may be a solution. I wonder what they'd say if you presented a conversion like one of Lutyens designs? Good luck
If these planners just followed the established guidelines that we have to comply with and did not try to just object based on how they were feeling on the day these power-hungry little Hitlers wouldn't need to waste so many resources processing simple planning applications.
The control these people have over everyone's lives is all becoming totalitarian.. from councils, the State & Federal governments here in Australia, it's all about draining your bank balance & making life extremely frustrating & painful..🦘