Perhaps it is "weird," but division by 100 V has a method to its madness: 10V x 10V = 100 V^2 is beyond the 10 V power supply. The division is necessary to avoid saturation for all possible inputs (and to achieve the correct output units).
I used to have an analog oscilloscope specifically for chaotic circuits to get my phase portrait which is going to work much better than a digital scope. I would set my camera up on a tripod to take few minute integration pics of the unstable periodic orbits and just used transistors as loosely phase coupled sine oscillators instead of op amps and multipliers. Since my oscillators only ran at .5-1 Hz, I would map them to RC servos to create interesting analog chaotic robots (I would use 555 timers to get the servo pulse train).
What perfect timing! Thank you. I was just restoring the functionality of a 3AP1 from an old Heath 'Scope and I was just starting to breadboard the Attractor. I am also ordering the prototype board you designed. Thank you for that too
It's probably my OCD but to have a spare op-amp available and an inverted y output just gets me... surely you could've used the last op-amp to invert the Y so it's a nice X/Y/Z output.
@@killcar5nbike2 Yesh, I also design synth modules (and guitar pedals). I would be pretty curious to use something like this as a modulation source for various things. Could be quite interesting.
It may be peculiar to have a "favourite" set of differential equations but I do... ... Anything with "Lorenz Attractor" written on it is going to pique my interest. :) Naughty Imsai Dog! Approving bad Rev A. boards like that! ;)
It would be cool if we could set the initial conditions and track the solutions with the scope after some minutes (or time units) in order to see the Butterfly effect. Version 0d would be then the components to build an analog computer. Cheers!
Great project - this will be my first surface mount board (they just arrived.). Do you have a BOM, or at least a component sizes, and type for the RVs?
Well I got my PCB's from pcbway today. Very fast service I love my pcbway! But yikes now I'm sourcing parts! The AD633 8-PID package is $20.00 through Digikey and a bit cheeper through Mouser. And I need two of them! Before I drop 40 bucks for the these two IC's could you please confirm that I should order the AD633ANZ parts? It looks like the quad op amp should be a TL074? Also some help with part numbers for the pots which would fit the board would be appreciated.
Ive wanted a scope for 28 years and I'm going to finally get one this summer. I'm leaning toward this scope for the unlockable bandwidth and all it's awesome features but I can't really find any reviews about it that aren't old and I feel like the complaints people had are likely mostly software issues that got worked out? When you zoom in or out on a waveform does it update in real time or pause and catch up? Also I've heard it has a noisy analog front end but that only matters using the 4 front connectors and not the 16 LA right? Is this still the absolute best bang for my $1000ish bucks? I want a scope I can learn with that won't easily be limited by it's own ability vs mine, one I can grow into I guess
@IMSAIGuy do you mean that you have to set the probe attenuation manually vs automatically? Also would you say that the dso has the same digital features as the mso? I've read that the dho isn't as feature packed but can be usbc powered and thats a plus Does the dho have awg?
@@BirdManPhil Yes on 95% of oscilloscopes you have to set it manually. on some HP/Tektronix scopes they have a way to detect that using their own probes. The MSO5000 is a better scope but the DHO are 14 bit and priced well. the MSO is much faster.
@@IMSAIGuy Minor correction. I just got my DSO4204 and it has 12 bit native ADCs. It can supersample to get 14 and 16 bit resolution. @BirdManPhil the DSO series does not have digital inputs. The screen resolution on the 4000 series is very nice and the touch screen is pretty responsive. Note it has the same failing of not detecting 10x passive probes and you have to set that manually. It's no Tektronix or Rhode & Schwarz but I can't afford those for hobby work.
So as a 'hairy ear'd engineer (type)' too it amazes me how fast the PCBs are made and delivered today along with how the cost is so low. I went to tech school in the 80s. Vias and plated through holes were prohibitivly expensive. You had to have a HOT SELLER if you had a two sided board. Layouts were still mostly by hand, at 2-4x scale on velum; drafting table and pinstripe tape and a camera to reduce if you were lucky. Schematics were still drafted by hand on velum using Picket templates. Today you open a CAD system and lay down 50 vias just to make a heat sink on a board. This would have cause the CEO and Board of directors to simultaneously have strokes in the 80s.
Perhaps it is "weird," but division by 100 V has a method to its madness: 10V x 10V = 100 V^2 is beyond the 10 V power supply. The division is necessary to avoid saturation for all possible inputs (and to achieve the correct output units).
I used to have an analog oscilloscope specifically for chaotic circuits to get my phase portrait which is going to work much better than a digital scope. I would set my camera up on a tripod to take few minute integration pics of the unstable periodic orbits and just used transistors as loosely phase coupled sine oscillators instead of op amps and multipliers.
Since my oscillators only ran at .5-1 Hz, I would map them to RC servos to create interesting analog chaotic robots (I would use 555 timers to get the servo pulse train).
What perfect timing! Thank you. I was just restoring the functionality of a 3AP1 from an old Heath 'Scope and I was just starting to breadboard the Attractor. I am also ordering the prototype board you designed. Thank you for that too
excellent
It's probably my OCD but to have a spare op-amp available and an inverted y output just gets me... surely you could've used the last op-amp to invert the Y so it's a nice X/Y/Z output.
Or both :)
Thank goodness Imsai dog is ISO9001 approved..... :-)
Love to see it hooked up to an analog scope.
siempre quise hacer uno de esos. Voy a probar
One of my planned but never started projects was a Chua's circuit connected to a vacuum tube television acting as an XY analog oscilloscope
Would be very interesting to hear what this would do as a synthesizer modulation source. What frequencies and voltage ranges does this produce?
I literally sent this vid to a friend who designs synth modules, then saw your comment.
@@killcar5nbike2 Yesh, I also design synth modules (and guitar pedals). I would be pretty curious to use something like this as a modulation source for various things. Could be quite interesting.
I've made the same mistake breadboarding a chua oscillator that used ad633s. Was using the dip package while looking at the SO pinout....
That's a really cool picture it shows on the oscilloscope screen!
Looks pretty cool. I wonder what sound it would make.
It may be peculiar to have a "favourite" set of differential equations but I do... ... Anything with "Lorenz Attractor" written on it is going to pique my interest. :)
Naughty Imsai Dog! Approving bad Rev A. boards like that! ;)
Configuration Mis-management 101:
1st attempt = Rev NC
2nd attempt = Rev A
3rd attempt = Rev B
🙂
It would be cool if we could set the initial conditions and track the solutions with the scope after some minutes (or time units) in order to see the Butterfly effect. Version 0d would be then the components to build an analog computer.
Cheers!
Great project - this will be my first surface mount board (they just arrived.). Do you have a BOM, or at least a component sizes, and type for the RVs?
all parts are 0805
@@IMSAIGuy Thank you!
Well I got my PCB's from pcbway today. Very fast service I love my pcbway! But yikes now I'm sourcing parts! The AD633 8-PID package is $20.00 through Digikey and a bit cheeper through Mouser. And I need two of them! Before I drop 40 bucks for the these two IC's could you please confirm that I should order the AD633ANZ parts? It looks like the quad op amp should be a TL074? Also some help with part numbers for the pots which would fit the board would be appreciated.
Found some discount AD633 online for about half price. Took a chance and ordered them. They work! Out of chaos springs order or visa versa.
*Book recommendation* 'Chaos: Making a New Science', by James Gleick.
If the first board is the prototype then the next board should be the first revision or revision 'A' not 'b' ? dunno....cheers.
AD633JN and AD633JR has different pinouts. what did you pick for your design?
link in description to pcbway where you can see schematic and pinout
Ive wanted a scope for 28 years and I'm going to finally get one this summer. I'm leaning toward this scope for the unlockable bandwidth and all it's awesome features but I can't really find any reviews about it that aren't old and I feel like the complaints people had are likely mostly software issues that got worked out?
When you zoom in or out on a waveform does it update in real time or pause and catch up?
Also I've heard it has a noisy analog front end but that only matters using the 4 front connectors and not the 16 LA right?
Is this still the absolute best bang for my $1000ish bucks? I want a scope I can learn with that won't easily be limited by it's own ability vs mine, one I can grow into I guess
my only complaints are slow to boot and no detections of 10x probes. I would take look at the newer DHO series.
@IMSAIGuy do you mean that you have to set the probe attenuation manually vs automatically? Also would you say that the dso has the same digital features as the mso? I've read that the dho isn't as feature packed but can be usbc powered and thats a plus
Does the dho have awg?
@@BirdManPhil Yes on 95% of oscilloscopes you have to set it manually. on some HP/Tektronix scopes they have a way to detect that using their own probes. The MSO5000 is a better scope but the DHO are 14 bit and priced well. the MSO is much faster.
@@IMSAIGuy Minor correction. I just got my DSO4204 and it has 12 bit native ADCs. It can supersample to get 14 and 16 bit resolution. @BirdManPhil the DSO series does not have digital inputs. The screen resolution on the 4000 series is very nice and the touch screen is pretty responsive. Note it has the same failing of not detecting 10x passive probes and you have to set that manually. It's no Tektronix or Rhode & Schwarz but I can't afford those for hobby work.
my bad .. one is a soic package
👍👍👍
Cool.
$14 multipliers! 😭
Checked locally, more like $25-30 here… at least they say that the package is "low cost"
Build your own using opamps and the exponential current to voltage relation of a diode?
Yeah multipliers are expensive
So as a 'hairy ear'd engineer (type)' too it amazes me how fast the PCBs are made and delivered today along with how the cost is so low.
I went to tech school in the 80s. Vias and plated through holes were prohibitivly expensive. You had to have a HOT SELLER if you had a two sided board. Layouts were still mostly by hand, at 2-4x scale on velum; drafting table and pinstripe tape and a camera to reduce if you were lucky. Schematics were still drafted by hand on velum using Picket templates.
Today you open a CAD system and lay down 50 vias just to make a heat sink on a board. This would have cause the CEO and Board of directors to simultaneously have strokes in the 80s.
I have never made a mistake with a PCB,... LOL yeah right.
Haste makes waste 🫤