Hello again! There's a lot of angles I wanted to approach this topic from, but I decided to hold back on criticizing the showrunner's portrayal, in favor of talking about what they got right. As always, would love feedback on how I can improve on my videos. Thanks everyone for sticking around as I'm fumbling around figuring this stuff out 💙. 5th essay done! -🦝
Masterpiece of a video! Also, "Everything good Kuvira does is in service of a greater harm" what a fantastic sentence that sums up autocrates so damn perfectly.
Kuvira was a Bourgeois revolutionary who brought an end to the feudal imperial backed earth kingdom and tried to destroy the United Republic settler colony.
I was waiting for this vid to drop ever since you mentioned it!! As always, amazing analysis and presentation. Wish I could put this in every ALTA fans recc page 💛
Great video once again! I always thought it was weird that the fascist was the only villain in the series who wasn't killed or imprisoned, but in fact forgiven over and over for having good intentions.
Dude your videos are amazing! I really like this take on Kuvira receiving empathy only after her power has been ripped out from under her. I always knew that the final scene with Korra and Kuvira is meant to be a powerful moment for Korra as a character, but I was just too uncomfortable watching Kuvira continue to spout her rhetoric about “helping her people” while the show continues to present her as sympathetic. But putting that scene in context of Korra’s empathy previously causing her to be pliable in the face of Kuvira’s bullshit, as well as in context of colonization of the Earth Kingdom, helps me look at s4’s conflict with a little more complexity. Also, thanks so much for the closed captions. It really helps people like me who need the extra help.
I think this video shows Kuvira had the potential to be the shows best villian. It's just when the show became Code Geass in the second half of Book 4 they stop having her explain herself until Korra's talk with her at the end.
Why do I have a crush on fascist girls with mental problems and bending skills that can 100% kill me? It was like that when I watched Avatar as a child, when Azula asked her boyfriend if he wanted to dominate the world with her, I thought to myself how stupid he was not to accept that.^^
Kuvira had legitimate points about the Earth Kingdom, how its ruling monarchs had consistently led it to disaster and ruin and how it did need someone to step up, take control and enforce law and order but she ultimately ended up taking it into extremism territory. Marching her army into the United Republic was just going way too far, as it was legally no longer part of the Earth Kingdom, and was the line in the sand that needed to be drawn.
Another amaizing video! Looking at The legend of Korra as a whole it could be argue that the show is about how idiologies that start as benevolent and progressive can become "corrupt" and radicalice in the search for power until become something else completly.
Yeah, I agree that's what the show was going for. I think Kuvira is supposed to be the opposite of Zahir. Both are antagonists whos viewpoint seems to make some sense, but who took it to a dark place and needed to be stopped. Zaheer is an anarchist who things chaos is freedom, Kuvira is all about order. That's why Zaheer helped defeat Kuvira, he identified her as his opposite philosophy.
I still find it incredibly baffling that out of all three major antagonists with a clear ideology (Unalaq doesn't really count), Kuvria aka the explicit allegory for fascism gets by far the most sympathetic portrayal in this show. Literally all the main characters of the show are firmly at the top of society, either powerful benders, very rich or part of the police / ruling class in some way. The fascist is portrayed with the most nuance and sympathy because fascism is beneficial for the 1% and by extension our main characters. Compare that to the two leftist allégories Amon and Zaheer, who are shown to be clearly evil and wrong... Really makes you think
I know I'm 3 months later, but I'd like to share my thoughts. A problem with the story is that there is no credible political alternative to Kuvira, no one else stands up to propose an alternative regime and Prince Wu is just a puppet in the hands of the Republic that wants to set up a puppet government. Moreover, imagining that a strong political figure who has the army, the people and the power with her will leave him because she “promised that she would withdraw” is very weak as guaranteed. Other concerns, which are very well seen in the video, are the fact that Kuvira constantly oscillates between a leader who is supposed to be strong and capable (having reunified and stabilized the country, desire to develop it...) and a villain. with the ridiculous and bad traits that go with it (the robots, the fact that she is incapable of convincing anyone...) and how easy it is, as is often the case, to blame everything on one person, Varic, Baatar or any other member of the regime will never be worried about their place in the regime. One thing I want to add about Su Yin is that she only does something when it threatens her city and her way of life. She is initially given the opportunity to be the one to restore calm and unity to the Earth Kingdom but she refuses and seeks to prevent those who wish to do so from doing so by banishing Kuvira from the city. She physically opposes Kuvira by attempting to assassinate her only when siege is placed on her city. Before, she simply tells him that she must leave power. It would have been interesting to see her say to herself “maybe I should have done something”. By the time Kuvira arrives Ba Sing Se must have been a terrible massacre. You remove the walls of a city filled to the brim with social and political problems deprived of any form of government, this cannot end well and will inevitably cause a lot of deaths. Even the political project of King Wu developed after the overthrow of Kuvira to “establish democracy” is very weak and, I find, very very bad (then I will quote a little from the comics), the inhabitants of the kingdom have no education political and there is no plan for a country-wide democracy, only local. This poses many problems because either it establishes only local democracy, or it means that he wants to divide the kingdom into several states. There are no plans for a Congress or Parliament of the kingdom (the idea of constitutional monarchy is not posed even though it would be the most logical, but given the simplification of politics and its institutions it is rather logical (the Republic doesn't even have a Parliament, so possibly no separation of powers)).
Zaofu is a techbro's idea of utopia, a closed-off technological elite ruled by rich pretentious pseudointellectuals who see themselves as enlightened philosopher kings. Zaofu gets to larp as Elon's Mars colony on the back of those who actually create all that technology. Conquering Zaofu was the only good thing Kuvria did
I enjoy how you can talk about the politics of TLOK while still talking about it like its a show with actual characters in it. I like kay and skittles videos but they feel like a political science lesson rather than a critique of the show
I don't think its very convincing that Kuvira was a fascist. First, the ethnic angle is basically non-existent. There is the one throw away line of dialogue about rounding up non-earth nation citizens, but its never explored one second more. It could have been nothing more than holding those foreign citizens until the war with Republic City began. Certainly not perfect by our ideas of habeus corpus, but hardly uncommon in the ATALA world at the time. And certainly not the direct equivalent to concentration camps some want to make it into. She also has none of the support of conservative forces in her rise to power. Like, world elites and industrialists back her for a brief period when they thought she would reinstate the conservative power of the monarchy. But there is no Porsche and Siemens backing her and profiting from her exploits to the very end. And her first "terrible tyrannical" moment is when she strong arms an unelected governor representing the monarchy. At every turn, it looks like normal people who back her, and in return truly do see an improvement in their safety and quality of life. And I think the biggest issue is that the injustices and grievances she seeks to address in subjugating Zhao Fu and Republic City is that they were legitimate grievances, not mythologized rationalizations like blood libel. Republic City and the Ayn Rand wet dream of Zhao Fu actively enriched themselves off the rest of the Earth Kingdom without providing anything back but support for tyrannical monarchies and impoverishing systems of oppression. The show could have done much better in making her ideology clearly wrong, rather than just painting her over with cartoon villainy at the last minute.
The uploader alleges that Kuvira's tactics are "reactionary", not revolutionary, but doesn't really explain HOW that is so exactly. For example, how is she trying to "turn back the clock"? Modernizing her entire society and upgrading her military technologically, as well as promoting equality for all her citizens at least in terms of food, is not quite that.
@@AlanBoris451Reactionary has a very specific definition, in that it refers to politics seeking to reverse leftist/egalitarian social changes, in this case, seeking to return the seat of power in society to a single centralized hierarchy, rather than the myriad of smaller sub-societies that existed otherwise.
@@whensomethingcriesagain but you're just using flowery language and jargon, Kuvira told Suyin she was FOR equality and stability, if anything that is the trademark of an Asian socialist society. She was also against the previous obsolete monarchy, whereas Korra and Su sought to reimpose it
@@seekingabsolution1907 But Suyin's idea was better, she was basically a mouthpiece for foreign leaders, including the one nation which literally COLONIZED the Earth Kingdom? And she was pro-monarchy also, which is not that progressive either What's more, people seem to hate Ozai much less than Kuvira which also rubs me the wrong way, as one was way more "evil" and higher death toll than the other...
One thing to mention: Kuvira most likely paid off the bandits to create artificial food scarcity by interfering in the Air Nation's humanitarian aid. This seems to be a big factor in how she coerced towns to join her.
@@johnkronz7562She threatened to drop Varrick on the train tracks, tied Zhu Lee up in a bomb test site, threatened to send Bolin to a concentration camp, and nuked her fiance's location. I can't put much past her. Also, for poor bandits, they had access to enough resources (including planes) to blockade entire states. It's fair to wonder where that money came from.
@@johnkronz7562 That's true. She didn't entirely manufacture the problem, and that was never my claim. She definitely intentionally made these problems significantly worse by sending bandits after the humanitarian aid though, and that's when we see the town sign Kuvira's terms.
I've always loved Kuvira because the first thing I realized from her as the Great Uniter is that in her own mind she does all the awful things she does because her family because Zaofu/earth kingdom could not survive without her that's the lie she uses to justify her own actions she thinks she's doing a service to the Earth kingdom but in reality it's all a play for her own gain
I think one can make a comparison between Kurvira and the Kuomintang under Chiang Kai-Sheck. -Both fought against warlordism in a large country that fell into chaos. -Both have strong and somewhat justifiable distaste of foreign influence over their country. In the case of China it's the diplomatic corps, the legations and the century of humiliation; in the case of the Earth Empire, it's the United Republic and a century of colonialism and a war against extermination. It's not one to one, of course, not even close, but I'd think the KMT could have been an inspiration for Kuvira, but mixed with Nazi stupidity with the unsustainability.
Kuvira would have been so much cooler if she wasn't NUTS All the tlok antagonists would be, it is so sad that they felt they had to give a justification and make them kind of evil instead of doing what it looks like it's going to do on all seasons. Showing their ideology, setting them up against the heroes and reveal that they are actually selfish or crazy or something. It would have been so cool if the heroes had been able to really choose sides.
Allow me to say, they are not. Natiionalism is about loyalty to your nation. Fascism is extremist form of this, where you view your nation as superior to others. Fascism would seek to not have a society with who it cosiders "impure" and exclude them. Most of the time, violently. Nationalists on the other hand, only view their own country highly. But, what they think of other cou tries can be positive, neutral or negative.@@Hawkatana
TL;DR Nationalism is about love to a person's own nation. Fascism is about seeing a person's own nation as superior. (and wanting "inferiors" to not exist) @@Hawkatana
Palestine is not a real place nor a people. It’s a name given to the region but westerner colonisers. It’s no different to how Iran was called Persia for years even though Persia referred to a simple costal area and not the whole country. The same way the levant was referred to as Phalistia or ‘Land of the Philastines’ by the Greeks who only had contact wit the costal regions for the longest time. No one from that area was called Palestinian when the Roman’s took over and renamed the region to Palestine from Juda. Nor did anyone calll themselves that for the next hundreds of years as the region swapped owners from empire to empire. The name only became a thing after the arabs lost the war they started against the Jews when refusing a two state solution and made up Palastine to push themselves as the weak victim despite the fact Israel is surrounded by massive nations that all agreed to never have peace with them and consoled seek their destruction.
@@Gdsryrox @Gdsryrox You're just wrong. Palestina was just one of the names for that region. In medieval texts for example, we see it being called, the holy land, Israel or Palestine. Palestine or Filastin is just a name that has been used by the Arabs for the region. The Romans literally used the term Palestine. Syria Palaestina Or Palaestina Roma was literally a region under the Romans. It was called Judea for a while, but Hadrian changed it to, you guessed it, Palaestina. Under the Arabs it was literally named Palestina (Pronounced Filastin I think), by most of the empires it was part of. However, it is true that the Arabs use Palestine to play a victim in the situation, which they most often are not. However, this doesn't change the fact that Palestina is a victim in the current situation and is suffering because of what's going on. A situation for which the Arabs at least take a little blame. The creation of Israël just happened wrong. It wasn't done carefully and arguably wasn't the best location for a Jewish state.
@@Killerwale-hk4wy Okay so by that logic we should go back to calling Iran Persian since that is what we called it for years. Your logic is ‘these other people not actually from that region called it this name therefore it’s a place’. We call Duetchland Germany and people from it German but that is not what they call themselves. We call a place Japan and the people from it Japanese even thought he actual natives call themselves Nippon. The name is derived from the Philistines, the same ones from the bible. The Greeks referred to the area as Land of the Philistines. But again your logic is “foreigners called this place a different name therefore the people living there magically change ethnicity”. The creation is Israel was Jews legally immigrating to the British mandate that they took control over after WW1 from the ottomans and legally purchased land. The vast majority of modern day ‘Palestinians’ moved to the levant for work as the Jews brought industry and wealth. The Palestinians time and time against refused two state solutions that gave them more and more land until the British gave up, a war broke out and the Jews won. Gaza was under Egyptian control and the West Bank Jordan. Then of course the arabs did another invasion, lost those areas and then Palestine suddenly became a thing before that the people were just Arab’s.
Building off the tactics you described in this video, hypothetically, how should people respond if groups use facist tactics, such as threatening force against anyone outside their order, or judging people based on ethnic race, but the people using those facist tactics CALLED themselves anti-facists? What should people do then?
By realizing that the Anti-fascists are anti-fascists and are not "using the same tactics of the fascists." not being white or a man is the problem Anti-fascists have; it is being a racial supremacist or enforcing patriarchy that is the problem anti-fascists have.
At that point people should open their eyes, realise they're completely ignoring context and that it's not remotely comparable to call someone a fascist for opposing authoritarian government and advocating for minority groups.
@@alexjames7144 I asked a HYPOTHETICAL question about what we SHOULD do if my imaginary situation ever came up. You are the one who assumed I was talking about what happens today. Isn't that interesting? I think it's interesting. What do YOU think? HYPOTHETICALLY, how SHOULD people respond if groups use facist tactics, such as threatening force against anyone outside their border, or judging people based on ethnic race, but the people using those facist tactics CALLED themselves anti-facists? What should people do then?
@@Will-tn8kq Do you think you're being clever? Because you're not being clever. It's very clear that you're trying to do some sort of gotcha to the leftists and now you're getting frustrated that we weren't dumb enough to fall for it.
@@alexjames7144 TONS of social movements start out benevolent and get corrupted over time. I would argue most religions go through that same cycle. If you can't ask yourself "hypothetically, what should I do if my group starts to go bad?" Then you have a major blind spot. No group is inherently good and evil, we must vigilently police ourselves to ensure we don't become corrupted, or else the same greed for power that twists every other group will twist ours also. To just assume "my group would never do that" is to commit the same error that brought down all the groups that came before us. These hypothetical questions are important.
22:16 "That's really what facism boils down to, attacking anyone who doesn't fit into their neat borders." Honestly that sounds like both sides of the poltical debate these days. I feel like both sides are so bad it's hard to care which one is worse.
The right try to directly oppress minority groups and deny them basic rights. The left trying to level the playing field is not being "just as bad" for the same reason that if someone punches you in the face and makes it clear they intend to do so again, you are quite justified in hitting back. It's self defense.
The line is "borders" not order. Fascists police the borders of human categories. They demand people conform within "normal" categories so to uphold their fragile, child-like, hierarchical view of the world. That's not how the left uses violence. All violence is not inherently fascist. It's only fascist if that violence is in service of achieving fascist political goals. Just wanted to clarify.
This argument is so troubling because it's an easy copout. It seems like you think that fighting is unpleasant and therefore wrong, regardless of what the fight is about or who's on which side. Fighting about an issue isn't inherently wrong anymore than refusing to engage is inherently right.
@@jamaalfridge No. When 2 sides are fighting and both sides are so bad that it's hard to know which is worse, then I create a THIRD option. I refuse to be told I need to fight someone because they are slightly worse than some other person who I also hate.
"Is the Earth Kingdom Palestine, getting Israel'd by an artificial state?" Bruh...stay in your lane on that one! But to give a BRIEF explanation: Jews have lived there for longer than the entire Islamic religion exists, and beyond that, the place has been a case of "might makes right" for as long as history's gone on. Considering that Palestine never really was a state (or even *is* at the moment, as I'm not sure it ever got official sovereign recognition), in contrast with the ancient ruins of Masada (a Jewish fortress from the times of the Roman Empire), this statement is...backwards. Heck, the "Palestinian Mandate" was first taken away from the collapsing Ottomans at the end of WW1, then got turned into poorly-drawn borders from the collapsing British empire. Many factions emerged from the dissolution of the British empire post WW2, and the Israeli story is just one of them. As for Kuvira...power corrupts. I believe it's in the Ruins of the Empire comic that goes into her backstory, but she's an adopted orphan that's always had a bit of a vicious temper, and freakishly strong power. Suyin gave her purpose, which is why she became so phenomenal so quickly (S3). Korra knocked some sense into her, and Ruins of the Empire basically has her try to speedrun a Zuko redemption arc. She's almost as vicious and every bit as driven there as she is in S4, but on the right side of things, looking to stamp out a would-be dictator that still had delusions of empire. Basically it winds up with the cast being okay to commute her actual jail sentence to house arrest in Zaofu back in her family's good graces for helping save the day, which *does* mellow her out a weebit by the end. I found it satisfying just b/c the Avatar verse does have a certain optimism to people getting another shot at being good, and Kuvira being a dancer and badass master metalbending ninja has too much rule of cool flowing through her veins to leave in a jail cell. In any case, I do think S4 was basically a case of "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely". Kuvira was introduced in S3 as a dancer, captain, and loyal ninja knight for Suyin and saved Korra's dad's life without a second thought. Her disagreements with Suyin came from a place of "someone should help". A bit of white savior, maybe, but...her heart was in the right place at that point in time. Just that...she didn't really have a Korra-style support network to tell her that some of her ideas might be pretty rotten. Had Suyin just said "actually, wonderful idea to go and provide relief, but please keep me posted by telegram every single week, pack enough spare changes of clothes, make sure to get enough sleep, and if you ever have any sort of dilemma, make sure to call! Oh, and there's always a warm bed waiting for you at home", it feels like S4 might not have ever reached any point of conflict. So...Suyin kind of goofed by just putting her foot down instead of letting Kuvira do her thing while keeping her on a bit of a leash.
Yo bro palestine may have never been a state but Palestinian’s were violently removed from their homeland. If thats the argument then why dont you argue that the native Americans deserve to take over and kick americans out of a majority of America while leaving them with a sliver of land. And then when the americans retaliate violently you can further subjugate them by saying that they’re evil and inherently violent. Then the Native Americans bomb that small sliver of land endlessly. Theres sooooo many places on this planet and ones that lived in isreal waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before judaism was conceived. So do those people actually deserve the land? Again you have a super weak argument that can be dismantled with logical analysis by looking at other historical contexts that know one views in the same way, like Jewish people in isreal and Native Americans in america. Its a dishonest argument and you probably don’t principally believe it because i can point to a thousand similarities that you would never advocate for. Learn how to analyze the world properly
Palestine is not synonymous with Islam Palestinians are a mix of Muslims, Christians, a few jews and other religions. Palestinians are descendents of the ancient levantine people who lived there 4000 years ago. The modern stare of Israel is factually, ideologically and explicitely from the moment the first zionists put their letter to FUCKING CECIL RODES! To get support for their SETTLER COLONY that their project was a SETTLER COLONIAL one. You are wrong and spread misinformation and frankly stop making apologetics for genocide.
Hello again! There's a lot of angles I wanted to approach this topic from, but I decided to hold back on criticizing the showrunner's portrayal, in favor of talking about what they got right. As always, would love feedback on how I can improve on my videos. Thanks everyone for sticking around as I'm fumbling around figuring this stuff out 💙.
5th essay done! -🦝
Masterpiece of a video! Also, "Everything good Kuvira does is in service of a greater harm" what a fantastic sentence that sums up autocrates so damn perfectly.
Babe wake up, new Zag vid!
ALL HAIL THE GREAT UNITER 🎉🎉
✋🏻
😁
I'm afraid Bolin was hanged at the Earth Kingdom Nuremberg trials
the return of the king
great video once again. I rang the bell for you. great stuff
Kuvira was a Bourgeois revolutionary who brought an end to the feudal imperial backed earth kingdom and tried to destroy the United Republic settler colony.
I love your content ♥️ you are one of the most based people out here. Thank you for your work 💕
“Kay and Skittles” would be proud!
I was waiting for this vid to drop ever since you mentioned it!! As always, amazing analysis and presentation. Wish I could put this in every ALTA fans recc page 💛
Great video once again! I always thought it was weird that the fascist was the only villain in the series who wasn't killed or imprisoned, but in fact forgiven over and over for having good intentions.
Dude your videos are amazing! I really like this take on Kuvira receiving empathy only after her power has been ripped out from under her. I always knew that the final scene with Korra and Kuvira is meant to be a powerful moment for Korra as a character, but I was just too uncomfortable watching Kuvira continue to spout her rhetoric about “helping her people” while the show continues to present her as sympathetic. But putting that scene in context of Korra’s empathy previously causing her to be pliable in the face of Kuvira’s bullshit, as well as in context of colonization of the Earth Kingdom, helps me look at s4’s conflict with a little more complexity.
Also, thanks so much for the closed captions. It really helps people like me who need the extra help.
Damn man this was an amazing watch
I think this video shows Kuvira had the potential to be the shows best villian. It's just when the show became Code Geass in the second half of Book 4 they stop having her explain herself until Korra's talk with her at the end.
Wow I did not realize you had such a small channel your videos quiet good hope this comment helps give you a boost in the algorithm
yeah my channel is teeny, appreciate all the help 😊
Why do I have a crush on fascist girls with mental problems and bending skills that can 100% kill me?
It was like that when I watched Avatar as a child, when Azula asked her boyfriend if he wanted to dominate the world with her, I thought to myself how stupid he was not to accept that.^^
because you're a cuckold, unironically
It's called femdom, tho there are all manner of non-fascist ways to engage with it
@@literallyme1732😂 nah i dont want to be dominated
Great video dude.
Kuvira had legitimate points about the Earth Kingdom, how its ruling monarchs had consistently led it to disaster and ruin and how it did need someone to step up, take control and enforce law and order but she ultimately ended up taking it into extremism territory. Marching her army into the United Republic was just going way too far, as it was legally no longer part of the Earth Kingdom, and was the line in the sand that needed to be drawn.
Another amaizing video!
Looking at The legend of Korra as a whole it could be argue that the show is about how idiologies that start as benevolent and progressive can become "corrupt" and radicalice in the search for power until become something else completly.
Yeah, I agree that's what the show was going for. I think Kuvira is supposed to be the opposite of Zahir. Both are antagonists whos viewpoint seems to make some sense, but who took it to a dark place and needed to be stopped. Zaheer is an anarchist who things chaos is freedom, Kuvira is all about order. That's why Zaheer helped defeat Kuvira, he identified her as his opposite philosophy.
“Oh fuck yeah let’s goooooo” I yelled when I saw the notification
„Oh fuck yeah let’s goooooo FASCISM“ Weird reaction 🙃 Just kidding, I love Zag’s videos as well.
Amazing commentary and perspectives!!!
good point, zhaofu would turn most of its people into statists
I would have completely sided with Kuivera of she didn't have the camps, and try to invade places like RC
Yeah, she was kinda good at the start.
I still find it incredibly baffling that out of all three major antagonists with a clear ideology (Unalaq doesn't really count), Kuvria aka the explicit allegory for fascism gets by far the most sympathetic portrayal in this show. Literally all the main characters of the show are firmly at the top of society, either powerful benders, very rich or part of the police / ruling class in some way. The fascist is portrayed with the most nuance and sympathy because fascism is beneficial for the 1% and by extension our main characters. Compare that to the two leftist allégories Amon and Zaheer, who are shown to be clearly evil and wrong... Really makes you think
Zag the leftist? I'm here for it
I love your videos, some of the best political analysis of media on the platform, absolutely becoming a patron
thank you so much!
great analysis, your videos deserve more views!
I know I'm 3 months later, but I'd like to share my thoughts.
A problem with the story is that there is no credible political alternative to Kuvira, no one else stands up to propose an alternative regime and Prince Wu is just a puppet in the hands of the Republic that wants to set up a puppet government.
Moreover, imagining that a strong political figure who has the army, the people and the power with her will leave him because she “promised that she would withdraw” is very weak as guaranteed.
Other concerns, which are very well seen in the video, are the fact that Kuvira constantly oscillates between a leader who is supposed to be strong and capable (having reunified and stabilized the country, desire to develop it...) and a villain. with the ridiculous and bad traits that go with it (the robots, the fact that she is incapable of convincing anyone...) and how easy it is, as is often the case, to blame everything on one person, Varic, Baatar or any other member of the regime will never be worried about their place in the regime.
One thing I want to add about Su Yin is that she only does something when it threatens her city and her way of life. She is initially given the opportunity to be the one to restore calm and unity to the Earth Kingdom but she refuses and seeks to prevent those who wish to do so from doing so by banishing Kuvira from the city. She physically opposes Kuvira by attempting to assassinate her only when siege is placed on her city. Before, she simply tells him that she must leave power. It would have been interesting to see her say to herself “maybe I should have done something”. By the time Kuvira arrives Ba Sing Se must have been a terrible massacre. You remove the walls of a city filled to the brim with social and political problems deprived of any form of government, this cannot end well and will inevitably cause a lot of deaths.
Even the political project of King Wu developed after the overthrow of Kuvira to “establish democracy” is very weak and, I find, very very bad (then I will quote a little from the comics), the inhabitants of the kingdom have no education political and there is no plan for a country-wide democracy, only local. This poses many problems because either it establishes only local democracy, or it means that he wants to divide the kingdom into several states. There are no plans for a Congress or Parliament of the kingdom (the idea of constitutional monarchy is not posed even though it would be the most logical, but given the simplification of politics and its institutions it is rather logical (the Republic doesn't even have a Parliament, so possibly no separation of powers)).
Another great video! Keep up the good work
after seeing this i realize i couldve written my bachelor thesis about prefigurative politics on zaofu ffs that would have been so cool
that sounds like it could have been very interesting! There's actually a delightful number of published thesis on this franchise.
Zaofu is a techbro's idea of utopia, a closed-off technological elite ruled by rich pretentious pseudointellectuals who see themselves as enlightened philosopher kings. Zaofu gets to larp as Elon's Mars colony on the back of those who actually create all that technology. Conquering Zaofu was the only good thing Kuvria did
Kuvira had a good point until the camps and the invasion of republic city
I'm here for the Bolin slander
Good job!
I enjoy how you can talk about the politics of TLOK while still talking about it like its a show with actual characters in it. I like kay and skittles videos but they feel like a political science lesson rather than a critique of the show
this is so interesting! idk if i wanna slough thru this show and get mad lmao the devil and bisexuality are raging inside me 😭
I don't think its very convincing that Kuvira was a fascist.
First, the ethnic angle is basically non-existent. There is the one throw away line of dialogue about rounding up non-earth nation citizens, but its never explored one second more. It could have been nothing more than holding those foreign citizens until the war with Republic City began. Certainly not perfect by our ideas of habeus corpus, but hardly uncommon in the ATALA world at the time. And certainly not the direct equivalent to concentration camps some want to make it into.
She also has none of the support of conservative forces in her rise to power. Like, world elites and industrialists back her for a brief period when they thought she would reinstate the conservative power of the monarchy. But there is no Porsche and Siemens backing her and profiting from her exploits to the very end. And her first "terrible tyrannical" moment is when she strong arms an unelected governor representing the monarchy. At every turn, it looks like normal people who back her, and in return truly do see an improvement in their safety and quality of life.
And I think the biggest issue is that the injustices and grievances she seeks to address in subjugating Zhao Fu and Republic City is that they were legitimate grievances, not mythologized rationalizations like blood libel. Republic City and the Ayn Rand wet dream of Zhao Fu actively enriched themselves off the rest of the Earth Kingdom without providing anything back but support for tyrannical monarchies and impoverishing systems of oppression.
The show could have done much better in making her ideology clearly wrong, rather than just painting her over with cartoon villainy at the last minute.
The uploader alleges that Kuvira's tactics are "reactionary", not revolutionary, but doesn't really explain HOW that is so exactly. For example, how is she trying to "turn back the clock"? Modernizing her entire society and upgrading her military technologically, as well as promoting equality for all her citizens at least in terms of food, is not quite that.
@@AlanBoris451Reactionary has a very specific definition, in that it refers to politics seeking to reverse leftist/egalitarian social changes, in this case, seeking to return the seat of power in society to a single centralized hierarchy, rather than the myriad of smaller sub-societies that existed otherwise.
@@whensomethingcriesagain but you're just using flowery language and jargon, Kuvira told Suyin she was FOR equality and stability, if anything that is the trademark of an Asian socialist society. She was also against the previous obsolete monarchy, whereas Korra and Su sought to reimpose it
@@AlanBoris451clearly she was lying though. She created a very strict hierarchy.
@@seekingabsolution1907 But Suyin's idea was better, she was basically a mouthpiece for foreign leaders, including the one nation which literally COLONIZED the Earth Kingdom? And she was pro-monarchy also, which is not that progressive either What's more, people seem to hate Ozai much less than Kuvira which also rubs me the wrong way, as one was way more "evil" and higher death toll than the other...
One thing to mention: Kuvira most likely paid off the bandits to create artificial food scarcity by interfering in the Air Nation's humanitarian aid.
This seems to be a big factor in how she coerced towns to join her.
She pretty clearly didn't. It wouldn't make much sense to go out and beat down 20 of her paid bandits.
@@johnkronz7562She threatened to drop Varrick on the train tracks, tied Zhu Lee up in a bomb test site, threatened to send Bolin to a concentration camp, and nuked her fiance's location. I can't put much past her. Also, for poor bandits, they had access to enough resources (including planes) to blockade entire states. It's fair to wonder where that money came from.
@@johnkronz7562 After she beat them up, remember when she gave them the ultimatum?
@@antarath517 sure, but this was long after bandits became a problem for the province.
@@johnkronz7562 That's true. She didn't entirely manufacture the problem, and that was never my claim.
She definitely intentionally made these problems significantly worse by sending bandits after the humanitarian aid though, and that's when we see the town sign Kuvira's terms.
I've always loved Kuvira because the first thing I realized from her as the Great Uniter is that in her own mind she does all the awful things she does because her family because Zaofu/earth kingdom could not survive without her that's the lie she uses to justify her own actions she thinks she's doing a service to the Earth kingdom but in reality it's all a play for her own gain
Someone told me that Kuvira is what would happen if Hitler and Margaret Thatcher had a daughter.
I think one can make a comparison between Kurvira and the Kuomintang under Chiang Kai-Sheck.
-Both fought against warlordism in a large country that fell into chaos.
-Both have strong and somewhat justifiable distaste of foreign influence over their country. In the case of China it's the diplomatic corps, the legations and the century of humiliation; in the case of the Earth Empire, it's the United Republic and a century of colonialism and a war against extermination.
It's not one to one, of course, not even close, but I'd think the KMT could have been an inspiration for Kuvira, but mixed with Nazi stupidity with the unsustainability.
Kuvira would have been so much cooler if she wasn't NUTS
All the tlok antagonists would be, it is so sad that they felt they had to give a justification and make them kind of evil instead of doing what it looks like it's going to do on all seasons.
Showing their ideology, setting them up against the heroes and reveal that they are actually selfish or crazy or something.
It would have been so cool if the heroes had been able to really choose sides.
Kuvira was not Fascist, she was just nationalistic
You said the same thing twice.
no, fascit and nationalist is two diffrent things
@@Hawkatana
@@Brunotti303 Except for the fact that they aren't.
Allow me to say, they are not.
Natiionalism is about loyalty to your nation.
Fascism is extremist form of this, where you view your nation as superior to others.
Fascism would seek to not have a society with who it cosiders "impure" and exclude them. Most of the time, violently.
Nationalists on the other hand, only view their own country highly. But, what they think of other cou tries can be positive, neutral or negative.@@Hawkatana
TL;DR
Nationalism is about love to a person's own nation.
Fascism is about seeing a person's own nation as superior. (and wanting "inferiors" to not exist)
@@Hawkatana
Kuvira was a hero
I won't elaborate
This was amazing. LoK sucked but serves as great fodder for political commentary. Too bad the creators sympathized with the nazi of all villains
I really appreciate you mentioning "getting Isrealed" as an example. Free Palestine ❤
i can see some of samee points to the war
Palestine is not a real place nor a people. It’s a name given to the region but westerner colonisers. It’s no different to how Iran was called Persia for years even though Persia referred to a simple costal area and not the whole country. The same way the levant was referred to as Phalistia or ‘Land of the Philastines’ by the Greeks who only had contact wit the costal regions for the longest time.
No one from that area was called Palestinian when the Roman’s took over and renamed the region to Palestine from Juda. Nor did anyone calll themselves that for the next hundreds of years as the region swapped owners from empire to empire. The name only became a thing after the arabs lost the war they started against the Jews when refusing a two state solution and made up Palastine to push themselves as the weak victim despite the fact Israel is surrounded by massive nations that all agreed to never have peace with them and consoled seek their destruction.
so both sides are wrong@@Gdsryrox
@@Gdsryrox @Gdsryrox You're just wrong. Palestina was just one of the names for that region. In medieval texts for example, we see it being called, the holy land, Israel or Palestine. Palestine or Filastin is just a name that has been used by the Arabs for the region. The Romans literally used the term Palestine. Syria Palaestina Or Palaestina Roma was literally a region under the Romans. It was called Judea for a while, but Hadrian changed it to, you guessed it, Palaestina. Under the Arabs it was literally named Palestina (Pronounced Filastin I think), by most of the empires it was part of. However, it is true that the Arabs use Palestine to play a victim in the situation, which they most often are not. However, this doesn't change the fact that Palestina is a victim in the current situation and is suffering because of what's going on. A situation for which the Arabs at least take a little blame. The creation of Israël just happened wrong. It wasn't done carefully and arguably wasn't the best location for a Jewish state.
@@Killerwale-hk4wy Okay so by that logic we should go back to calling Iran Persian since that is what we called it for years. Your logic is ‘these other people not actually from that region called it this name therefore it’s a place’. We call Duetchland Germany and people from it German but that is not what they call themselves. We call a place Japan and the people from it Japanese even thought he actual natives call themselves Nippon.
The name is derived from the Philistines, the same ones from the bible. The Greeks referred to the area as Land of the Philistines. But again your logic is “foreigners called this place a different name therefore the people living there magically change ethnicity”.
The creation is Israel was Jews legally immigrating to the British mandate that they took control over after WW1 from the ottomans and legally purchased land. The vast majority of modern day ‘Palestinians’ moved to the levant for work as the Jews brought industry and wealth. The Palestinians time and time against refused two state solutions that gave them more and more land until the British gave up, a war broke out and the Jews won. Gaza was under Egyptian control and the West Bank Jordan. Then of course the arabs did another invasion, lost those areas and then Palestine suddenly became a thing before that the people were just Arab’s.
Palestine wasn’t Israeled,it was the opposite
Building off the tactics you described in this video, hypothetically, how should people respond if groups use facist tactics, such as threatening force against anyone outside their order, or judging people based on ethnic race, but the people using those facist tactics CALLED themselves anti-facists? What should people do then?
By realizing that the Anti-fascists are anti-fascists and are not "using the same tactics of the fascists." not being white or a man is the problem Anti-fascists have; it is being a racial supremacist or enforcing patriarchy that is the problem anti-fascists have.
At that point people should open their eyes, realise they're completely ignoring context and that it's not remotely comparable to call someone a fascist for opposing authoritarian government and advocating for minority groups.
@@alexjames7144 I asked a HYPOTHETICAL question about what we SHOULD do if my imaginary situation ever came up. You are the one who assumed I was talking about what happens today. Isn't that interesting? I think it's interesting.
What do YOU think? HYPOTHETICALLY, how SHOULD people respond if groups use facist tactics, such as threatening force against anyone outside their border, or judging people based on ethnic race, but the people using those facist tactics CALLED themselves anti-facists? What should people do then?
@@Will-tn8kq Do you think you're being clever? Because you're not being clever. It's very clear that you're trying to do some sort of gotcha to the leftists and now you're getting frustrated that we weren't dumb enough to fall for it.
@@alexjames7144 TONS of social movements start out benevolent and get corrupted over time. I would argue most religions go through that same cycle. If you can't ask yourself "hypothetically, what should I do if my group starts to go bad?" Then you have a major blind spot. No group is inherently good and evil, we must vigilently police ourselves to ensure we don't become corrupted, or else the same greed for power that twists every other group will twist ours also.
To just assume "my group would never do that" is to commit the same error that brought down all the groups that came before us. These hypothetical questions are important.
you didnt need a 22 minute video to say "Kuvira was right and Fascism is based"
> Thinks fascism is based
> Is a degenerate
Pick a lane
@@slothful2039 you just a hater
a
22:16 "That's really what facism boils down to, attacking anyone who doesn't fit into their neat borders." Honestly that sounds like both sides of the poltical debate these days. I feel like both sides are so bad it's hard to care which one is worse.
The right try to directly oppress minority groups and deny them basic rights. The left trying to level the playing field is not being "just as bad" for the same reason that if someone punches you in the face and makes it clear they intend to do so again, you are quite justified in hitting back. It's self defense.
The line is "borders" not order.
Fascists police the borders of human categories. They demand people conform within "normal" categories so to uphold their fragile, child-like, hierarchical view of the world. That's not how the left uses violence.
All violence is not inherently fascist. It's only fascist if that violence is in service of achieving fascist political goals. Just wanted to clarify.
This argument is so troubling because it's an easy copout. It seems like you think that fighting is unpleasant and therefore wrong, regardless of what the fight is about or who's on which side. Fighting about an issue isn't inherently wrong anymore than refusing to engage is inherently right.
@@jamaalfridge No. When 2 sides are fighting and both sides are so bad that it's hard to know which is worse, then I create a THIRD option. I refuse to be told I need to fight someone because they are slightly worse than some other person who I also hate.
@@ZagTheRaccoon that was a type. fixed.
"Is the Earth Kingdom Palestine, getting Israel'd by an artificial state?" Bruh...stay in your lane on that one!
But to give a BRIEF explanation:
Jews have lived there for longer than the entire Islamic religion exists, and beyond that, the place has been a case of "might makes right" for as long as history's gone on. Considering that Palestine never really was a state (or even *is* at the moment, as I'm not sure it ever got official sovereign recognition), in contrast with the ancient ruins of Masada (a Jewish fortress from the times of the Roman Empire), this statement is...backwards. Heck, the "Palestinian Mandate" was first taken away from the collapsing Ottomans at the end of WW1, then got turned into poorly-drawn borders from the collapsing British empire. Many factions emerged from the dissolution of the British empire post WW2, and the Israeli story is just one of them.
As for Kuvira...power corrupts. I believe it's in the Ruins of the Empire comic that goes into her backstory, but she's an adopted orphan that's always had a bit of a vicious temper, and freakishly strong power. Suyin gave her purpose, which is why she became so phenomenal so quickly (S3). Korra knocked some sense into her, and Ruins of the Empire basically has her try to speedrun a Zuko redemption arc. She's almost as vicious and every bit as driven there as she is in S4, but on the right side of things, looking to stamp out a would-be dictator that still had delusions of empire. Basically it winds up with the cast being okay to commute her actual jail sentence to house arrest in Zaofu back in her family's good graces for helping save the day, which *does* mellow her out a weebit by the end. I found it satisfying just b/c the Avatar verse does have a certain optimism to people getting another shot at being good, and Kuvira being a dancer and badass master metalbending ninja has too much rule of cool flowing through her veins to leave in a jail cell.
In any case, I do think S4 was basically a case of "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely". Kuvira was introduced in S3 as a dancer, captain, and loyal ninja knight for Suyin and saved Korra's dad's life without a second thought. Her disagreements with Suyin came from a place of "someone should help". A bit of white savior, maybe, but...her heart was in the right place at that point in time. Just that...she didn't really have a Korra-style support network to tell her that some of her ideas might be pretty rotten. Had Suyin just said "actually, wonderful idea to go and provide relief, but please keep me posted by telegram every single week, pack enough spare changes of clothes, make sure to get enough sleep, and if you ever have any sort of dilemma, make sure to call! Oh, and there's always a warm bed waiting for you at home", it feels like S4 might not have ever reached any point of conflict. So...Suyin kind of goofed by just putting her foot down instead of letting Kuvira do her thing while keeping her on a bit of a leash.
Yo bro palestine may have never been a state but Palestinian’s were violently removed from their homeland.
If thats the argument then why dont you argue that the native Americans deserve to take over and kick americans out of a majority of America while leaving them with a sliver of land. And then when the americans retaliate violently you can further subjugate them by saying that they’re evil and inherently violent. Then the Native Americans bomb that small sliver of land endlessly.
Theres sooooo many places on this planet and ones that lived in isreal waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before judaism was conceived. So do those people actually deserve the land?
Again you have a super weak argument that can be dismantled with logical analysis by looking at other historical contexts that know one views in the same way, like Jewish people in isreal and Native Americans in america. Its a dishonest argument and you probably don’t principally believe it because i can point to a thousand similarities that you would never advocate for.
Learn how to analyze the world properly
zionist coping
Palestine is not synonymous with Islam Palestinians are a mix of Muslims, Christians, a few jews and other religions. Palestinians are descendents of the ancient levantine people who lived there 4000 years ago. The modern stare of Israel is factually, ideologically and explicitely from the moment the first zionists put their letter to FUCKING CECIL RODES! To get support for their SETTLER COLONY that their project was a SETTLER COLONIAL one. You are wrong and spread misinformation and frankly stop making apologetics for genocide.
if someone came to your house and told you to get out because 1000 years ago they owned that land would that make any sense to you ?
to this person, yes.