If a man runs into your burning house, and saves you and you family form the fire, but later while you are recovering, goes back into your house and steals all your possessions, is he a hero or a thief. This is how I fell about anyone who has served in the ANC in the upper positions for the last 30 years. They are not heroes, they are self serving thieves, who will all get state funerals for their early activists roles.
He is a hero in very many ways. Unfortunately he was surrounded by absolute criminals. In 2007 I was at a big event with business and government just after Mbeki was booted. All the minister types arrived in this smaller town on the GUPTA'S planes. Essop Pahad and a bunch more. They were all cuddled up to those 3 little toads. Pravin was the ONLY ONE who flew commercial and had a local driver fetch him. The only ones howling, that I can, see are the hyenas.
Hi! Sizwe, the problem with politicians and eventually as Government officials or figures is that they never know when to retire not to become old in both political and Government life. The issue is that after 70years they start making mistakes or take decisions that are not popular either through party lines or influence. Many due to political and/or party decisions you become unpopular. But also to enjoy their retirement but can still play a pivotal role as an elder who can mentor the young politicians. So I feel sorry for him when you hear not so good talk about him. May His Soul Rest in Peace. He did his part. EM. Johannesburg Gauteng Province. 🙏✊
SMWX thank you for a well articulated account of Pravin's life and the history of the NIC, UDF & ANC. In a few dealings with the Department of Public Enterprises, I found them strange. A successful CSARS & Minister of Finance was not able to steer DPE which had the task of running the SOEs. There were many DGs.
I watched with keen interest on what your analysis will say is the big 'mistakes' Gordhan did. Appointing a wrong person for a CEO job was such a normal 'mistake'. Yes, dire consequences - but there are plenty CEOs who never fulfil their appointment mandate. Especially in govt. We never hold the ministers accountable for those CEOs. Secondly, because of the apparent lack of performance in rescuing public enterprises he is being unjustly equated to the thieves who actually stole. Problems in public enterprises preceded Gordhan. I think that so far I have not heard any valid argument that takes away from the gigantic contribution of this freedom fighter. He stood firm under the worst onslaught for principle and thieves who were looting.
Agree, also the generalization that the "media" accorded him a hero status without mentioning his failures is a red herring. As an academic Sizwe must at least those media houses that he accuses of this. Media is not monolithic
what is a socialist transformer? He oversaw the revolution of SARS that increased tax income, trust and compliance exponentially. Considering socialists have only OTHER PEOPLES MONEY to spend, there is no greater accomplishment. Your great "socialist leaders" are the ones who have broken the state's capacity. No business brains, mass wage bills with no production or skills, looting by top management connected to the "cadres". There is your socialist report card.
At least Gordon is finally resting and not being maligned falsely by that malema, now he found someone else to blame falsely.. Naledi Pandor.... Don't suck it in with an apology, take him to the cleaners.
Yre an exceptional himan being Sizwe ,when saying you have no intention of speaking evil of the dead. No one is a saint ,one chooses to live a saintly life, that was Pravin GordhanRIP Ayeye .
Dear Sizwe, both you and JJ forget to make mention of the destruction of the SOE'S under the likes of Dudu, and Brian, while Zuma was holding hands with the Gupta's
Sizwe, do please make documentary about the late Pravin Gordhan ‘s implications in O’Mailey Cabal Decuments as ANC Leader released. How did he(PG) was chronologically fingered as the main leader of Canal? Lastly, why ANC did not took decisive actions to stop the Cabal?
...All of us as humans we're imperfect, we all have limitations and all humans have two sides, generally we've good & bad side...But Pravin was a very clever crook...may his soul RIP...
The dude was an British agent, what specific agency I can't say but was an active agent of a foreign power and an enemy of a sovereign black led South Africa.
You have done a very good job with this episode. When money is involved politics can get very very messy. The challenge is to do your best in the interest of the country and keep your nose clean. Most can’t.
Pravin replaced the Guptas, selling SAA and refusIng to disclose to parliament. He allowed corruption for cadres in Eskom. load shedding was pravin dirty business ending when a new minister was appointed.
Thanks for a well balanced commentary. I think you could have looked more closely at the poor state of SOEs by the time PG became Public Works minister.
To your questions to the President and the late minister, Cyril said he knew and was faced with options to challenge early and be sidelines or lay low, fight where could. His posture is that if he was more outspoken and resistant than he already was, he would be quickly squashed and removed only to be left with room to fight hence they noted whats was going wrong and navigated it cautiously intently knowing that the dominance would come to an end and the wrongdoing would be revealed and punished. He said all this at his Zondo commission hearing as to why served in a Cabinet he now wants to deem as corrupt and wasted years. Just thought to share this cause I had the same question. I get it but I haven’t let them off the hook. They’re getting away too easy by and it’s basically self-preservation. Their corruption busting was also not that eff effective, consistent or fair.
Remember JZ strength was usage of Intelligencia...PGs trip to London speaks volume, hence the Intelligence Report. He was working hard in compromising JZ.
Sizwe, next time you have such an episode, please consider making it explicitly clear that this is not an analysis of him as a person, a parent, or his personal life but that of his professional life. Also, litter this Proclamation all over the episode, particularly because he is recently deceased and it might be taken the wrong way.
Hhayi no. He highlighted that he is discussing him as a public figure. He did not mention anything about his private life. He remained diplomatic and respectful throughout the episode. He even deliberately left out a lot of key unsavoury information about his public life! Public figures know what they are signing up for. Live by the spear and die by the spear. It is their duty to prepare their families, not ours (public).
Great 👍 reflection dear Sizwe on SMWX platform, the life of Pravin Gordhan and realising Mahatma Gandhi , his Life and time in SA . Great influence to the liberation struggles and activism indeed . Former president Zuma brought Pravin Gordhan to the forefront as Minister of Finance and therafter assumed many a portfolio, sevred with astute intelligence and resilience for righteousness in SA. God Bless SMWX ayeye ❤
Big difference between a righteous man and a self-righteous man,Pravin was experienced and will forever be viewed differently by different people. He did his part,for better to others and to the detriment of others. Ayeye❤
To some of us who were heavily affected by all that he did 'can't even say his name without tears streaming down'... he took diabolical decisions which affected so many lives💔 from a black single parent who got retrenched and still unfairly treated even when some doors are starting to open. We will never forget, yes he was human, but wow.
Jamnandas was never for the poor specifically.. collectively the Indian congress fought against apartheid with the ANC for political freedom..not necessarily for the poor but against apartheid..so credit is given where it's due..ZA will mourn him.. not the poor
Like most reasonable people, I'm disappointed in Minister Gordhan's disastrous overseeing of the SOCs, especially as I believe the SOCs are one of the most important cogs in our developmental efforts. Now, the ANC overall, including during Gordhan's tenure has botched the opportunity brought by parastatals to develop a country like ours. All of it being said, I view PG's contribution to our nation in a positive light. Let's not mince words here, he's hated by some quarters in our nation as a result of him campaigning against President Zuma when he, a lot of us and large section in the ANC believed that administration had veered too far off the developmental path. That itself was courage that needs to be lauded. Together with his time at SARS, and notable contributions during the struggle, I find all of it exemplary and could only wish every deployee into the political sphere had that dedication and integrity, even when they get things horribly wrong during their service. We can do with a cadre that tries. May Mr. Gordhan rest in peace.
No doubt Gordhan took too long (like Ramaphosa) to be critical of their corrupt comrades within the ANC. Hence Gordhan said that some of the comrades will have to be allowed to make a buck ( asif its a necessary evil). This is where activists and politicians like him are compromised. He did not steal but he turned a blind eye when some of his comrades were stealing. This in my view is wrong.
You have tried to present a balanced account I agree, but not entirely. I take issue with your claim that the media has panted a hero status on Gordhan, for example. It is a thoughtless over generalization. Media is not monolithic. I know of many media houses, programs and articles that have tried to present a balanced account like you try to do.
Agreed with everything you said until you got to part 3 - SOEs in part have turned around - seems like a fight more against CR than it is about fair analysis
Arrogance of this man was stinking he thought he was beyond reproach. He was hero to his imperialist friends and a vilian to the poor people and working class.
he sold it when it should have been drowned in a bucket behind parliament 10 years before. A looting scheme disguised as an airline, led by that poisonous Myeni and her pals, skimming off every contract. Governments that don't own oil wells, shouldn't own airlines. No rich, first world countries do and we have NO business doing the same.
@mvubu6823 I don't know😄 2022 AFS says SAA had R8 billion in assets and R9 billion in loans. They had R2 billion in income and R5 billion on expenses. Gov can save R3 Billion a year in losses by selling SAA for R 0.00 😋
Youre a poor Journalist Sizwe, Your are required to be neutral and fair far from what you are. Your description of Gordhan life isnt fair. I Wish jounalist had more integrity. You have freedom because of this man and many others.
Yep, in all of humanity, there is something good and that little dot of bad and the reverse is true. It is however, important to note that indeed the Parastatals came into complete collapse under the hand of Pravin. The SAA was almost sold for R53.00 after bailing it out with millions and millions of PIC funds. Transnet collapsed completely under him and Mbalula and Ramaphosa. We as commuters who dependent on trains have felt it the most. I cannot even begin to say it was a question of mismanaging these institutions, it was a concerted effort to prepare these institutions for privatisation. May his soul rest in perfect peace though. I have said my peace and take on this matter.
I understand your diplomaticity. Dr Sizwe, because you are a public figure. I will comment after those who were affected by his conduct, I want to hear those who knows him not on his ranking position.
It is so appalling that his daughters took a centre stage that he was victimized. Both together with Cyril Ramaphosa and Mac Maharaj lied about the narration the state capture and victimization on Gordhan.ANC is in crisis due to both Ramaposa and Gordhan.
If a man runs into your burning house, and saves you and you family form the fire, but later while you are recovering, goes back into your house and steals all your possessions, is he a hero or a thief. This is how I fell about anyone who has served in the ANC in the upper positions for the last 30 years. They are not heroes, they are self serving thieves, who will all get state funerals for their early activists roles.
He is a hero in very many ways. Unfortunately he was surrounded by absolute criminals.
In 2007 I was at a big event with business and government just after Mbeki was booted.
All the minister types arrived in this smaller town on the GUPTA'S planes. Essop Pahad and a bunch more. They were all cuddled up to those 3 little toads.
Pravin was the ONLY ONE who flew commercial and had a local driver fetch him.
The only ones howling, that I can, see are the hyenas.
That’s a cool story thanks.
@@_SMWX😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Pravin Gordhan is the only minister to have said "Not all corruption is criminal".
He clearly said it knowing he is hiding corruption
He ruined state owned enterprises.
That statement says a lot about the man
Izwani nje busy justifying his nonsense. And he must be hailed as a hero? Mcim suka! Isigebengu esinengila esingenamahloni. 🚮
Hi! Sizwe, the problem with politicians and eventually as Government officials or figures is that they never know when to retire not to become old in both political and Government life. The issue is that after 70years they start making mistakes or take decisions that are not popular either through party lines or influence. Many due to political and/or party decisions you become unpopular. But also to enjoy their retirement but can still play a pivotal role as an elder who can mentor the young politicians. So I feel sorry for him when you hear not so good talk about him. May His Soul Rest in Peace. He did his part. EM. Johannesburg Gauteng Province. 🙏✊
Thanks for your nuanced handling of this complex issues
SMWX thank you for a well articulated account of Pravin's life and the history of the NIC, UDF & ANC. In a few dealings with the Department of Public Enterprises, I found them strange. A successful CSARS & Minister of Finance was not able to steer DPE which had the task of running the SOEs. There were many DGs.
I watched with keen interest on what your analysis will say is the big 'mistakes' Gordhan did. Appointing a wrong person for a CEO job was such a normal 'mistake'. Yes, dire consequences - but there are plenty CEOs who never fulfil their appointment mandate. Especially in govt. We never hold the ministers accountable for those CEOs. Secondly, because of the apparent lack of performance in rescuing public enterprises he is being unjustly equated to the thieves who actually stole. Problems in public enterprises preceded Gordhan. I think that so far I have not heard any valid argument that takes away from the gigantic contribution of this freedom fighter. He stood firm under the worst onslaught for principle and thieves who were looting.
Agree, also the generalization that the "media" accorded him a hero status without mentioning his failures is a red herring. As an academic Sizwe must at least those media houses that he accuses of this. Media is not monolithic
good effort to capture his life story
At least ANC SG Fikile Mbalula threatened to push him out as Minister of Public Enterprise. But was reprimanded by ANC leaders to retract the threat.
1...
2...
3...or
4. They too were involved. Maybe from a different faction but the goal was the same.
I wonder if anyone will have good things to say about corrupt Zuma and your father who defends all the crooks???
Hi father is an advocate, what do you expect him to do??
Hosh! Kom die Nomber duidelik!
The SACP defended him and he still didn't make any contribution to a Socialist transformer. MasePoes! 3:53
what is a socialist transformer?
He oversaw the revolution of SARS that increased tax income, trust and compliance exponentially.
Considering socialists have only OTHER PEOPLES MONEY to spend, there is no greater accomplishment.
Your great "socialist leaders" are the ones who have broken the state's capacity. No business brains, mass wage bills with no production or skills, looting by top management connected to the "cadres".
There is your socialist report card.
ZUMA is a good man who did good to all. but people like Gordon betrayed him.Gordon was a traitor,
At least Gordon is finally resting and not being maligned falsely by that malema, now he found someone else to blame falsely.. Naledi Pandor.... Don't suck it in with an apology, take him to the cleaners.
Yre an exceptional himan being Sizwe ,when saying you have no intention of speaking evil of the dead.
No one is a saint ,one chooses to live a saintly life, that was Pravin GordhanRIP Ayeye .
To accredit the lack of reconstitution of the SOE'S by Pravin, in naively shortsighted
Dear Sizwe, both you and JJ forget to make mention of the destruction of the SOE'S under the likes of Dudu, and Brian, while Zuma was holding hands with the Gupta's
I had a lot of respect for him. RIP 🕊️
Sizwe, do please make documentary about the late Pravin Gordhan ‘s implications in O’Mailey Cabal Decuments as ANC Leader released. How did he(PG) was chronologically fingered as the main leader of Canal? Lastly, why ANC did not took decisive actions to stop the Cabal?
...All of us as humans we're imperfect, we all have limitations and all humans have two sides, generally we've good & bad side...But Pravin was a very clever crook...may his soul RIP...
The dude was an British agent, what specific agency I can't say but was an active agent of a foreign power and an enemy of a sovereign black led South Africa.
And you have proof of this Gadaffi ??? lol
You have done a very good job with this episode. When money is involved politics can get very very messy. The challenge is to do your best in the interest of the country and keep your nose clean. Most can’t.
Ayeye ✌️
Well balanced analysis and your demeanour befits the stature the late was.
May his soul rest in peace. 🕊️
There should be a part 2 which shouldn't be apologetic.
Pravin replaced the Guptas, selling SAA and refusIng to disclose to parliament. He allowed corruption for cadres in Eskom. load shedding was pravin dirty business ending when a new minister was appointed.
Thanks for a well balanced commentary. I think you could have looked more closely at the poor state of SOEs by the time PG became Public Works minister.
SAA TAKATSO DEAL GIVES YOU A WINDOW INTO HOW CRIINAL THAT GUY WAS!
The lack of succession planning in the ANC is why Gordhan was still compelled to stay in Government for as long as he did
To your questions to the President and the late minister, Cyril said he knew and was faced with options to challenge early and be sidelines or lay low, fight where could. His posture is that if he was more outspoken and resistant than he already was, he would be quickly squashed and removed only to be left with room to fight hence they noted whats was going wrong and navigated it cautiously intently knowing that the dominance would come to an end and the wrongdoing would be revealed and punished. He said all this at his Zondo commission hearing as to why served in a Cabinet he now wants to deem as corrupt and wasted years. Just thought to share this cause I had the same question. I get it but I haven’t let them off the hook. They’re getting away too easy by and it’s basically self-preservation. Their corruption busting was also not that eff effective, consistent or fair.
A searching, thoughtful and balanced account of Gordan's legacy. You and others like you are the hope for SA's future.
Oh, what a breath of fresh air.
I know you said "underwhelming" but I think you meant to say DISMAL.
Remember JZ strength was usage of Intelligencia...PGs trip to London speaks volume, hence the Intelligence Report. He was working hard in compromising JZ.
You mean made-up fake reports? He is an expert in chaos.
Sizwe, next time you have such an episode, please consider making it explicitly clear that this is not an analysis of him as a person, a parent, or his personal life but that of his professional life. Also, litter this Proclamation all over the episode, particularly because he is recently deceased and it might be taken the wrong way.
Hhayi no. He highlighted that he is discussing him as a public figure. He did not mention anything about his private life. He remained diplomatic and respectful throughout the episode. He even deliberately left out a lot of key unsavoury information about his public life! Public figures know what they are signing up for. Live by the spear and die by the spear. It is their duty to prepare their families, not ours (public).
I agree but because he is recently deceased. I thought labouring this fact is a good idea. That is why I suggested it as a consideration
Great 👍 reflection dear Sizwe on SMWX platform, the life of Pravin Gordhan and realising Mahatma Gandhi , his Life and time in SA .
Great influence to the liberation struggles and activism indeed .
Former president Zuma brought Pravin Gordhan to the forefront as Minister of Finance and therafter assumed many a portfolio, sevred with astute intelligence and resilience for righteousness in SA.
God Bless SMWX ayeye ❤
Big difference between a righteous man and a self-righteous man,Pravin was experienced and will forever be viewed differently by different people. He did his part,for better to others and to the detriment of others. Ayeye❤
He left a bad legacy with Eskom... and not able to enjoy his retirement. Wonder how he feels about things now in the afterlife...
As skelim as the rest of a n c gangsters
Thank you Dr. for the perspective. Your platform is very helpful. Mpofu.
To some of us who were heavily affected by all that he did 'can't even say his name without tears streaming down'... he took diabolical decisions which affected so many lives💔 from a black single parent who got retrenched and still unfairly treated even when some doors are starting to open.
We will never forget, yes he was human, but wow.
I emphathise and can relate with you. What a rubbish character he displayed in so many ways. He is no hero.
Jamnandas was never for the poor specifically.. collectively the Indian congress fought against apartheid with the ANC for political freedom..not necessarily for the poor but against apartheid..so credit is given where it's due..ZA will mourn him.. not the poor
Like most reasonable people, I'm disappointed in Minister Gordhan's disastrous overseeing of the SOCs, especially as I believe the SOCs are one of the most important cogs in our developmental efforts. Now, the ANC overall, including during Gordhan's tenure has botched the opportunity brought by parastatals to develop a country like ours. All of it being said, I view PG's contribution to our nation in a positive light. Let's not mince words here, he's hated by some quarters in our nation as a result of him campaigning against President Zuma when he, a lot of us and large section in the ANC believed that administration had veered too far off the developmental path. That itself was courage that needs to be lauded. Together with his time at SARS, and notable contributions during the struggle, I find all of it exemplary and could only wish every deployee into the political sphere had that dedication and integrity, even when they get things horribly wrong during their service. We can do with a cadre that tries.
May Mr. Gordhan rest in peace.
No doubt Gordhan took too long (like Ramaphosa) to be critical of their corrupt comrades within the ANC. Hence Gordhan said that some of the comrades will have to be allowed to make a buck ( asif its a necessary evil). This is where activists and politicians like him are compromised. He did not steal but he turned a blind eye when some of his comrades were stealing. This in my view is wrong.
You have tried to present a balanced account I agree, but not entirely. I take issue with your claim that the media has panted a hero status on Gordhan, for example. It is a thoughtless over generalization. Media is not monolithic. I know of many media houses, programs and articles that have tried to present a balanced account like you try to do.
Agreed with everything you said until you got to part 3 - SOEs in part have turned around - seems like a fight more against CR than it is about fair analysis
Arrogance of this man was stinking he thought he was beyond reproach. He was hero to his imperialist friends and a vilian to the poor people and working class.
He sold SAA for R51what more to say
he sold it when it should have been drowned in a bucket behind parliament 10 years before. A looting scheme disguised as an airline, led by that poisonous Myeni and her pals, skimming off every contract.
Governments that don't own oil wells, shouldn't own airlines. No rich, first world countries do and we have NO business doing the same.
If the asset is sold with its debt, then maybe R51 is an appropriate price.
It wasn't worth R1
@mvubu6823 I don't know😄 2022 AFS says SAA had R8 billion in assets and R9 billion in loans. They had R2 billion in income and R5 billion on expenses. Gov can save R3 Billion a year in losses by selling SAA for R 0.00 😋
@@realdudevision2746 and the write offs, write downs, taxpayer conversions from loans to equity over the last 20 years.
BILLIONS IN LOSES... BILLIONS.
Youre a poor Journalist Sizwe, Your are required to be neutral and fair far from what you are. Your description of Gordhan life isnt fair. I Wish jounalist had more integrity. You have freedom because of this man and many others.
Mpofu once asked Pravin if he had any actual proof of state capture..he said "no"
Yes, admitted that the whole commission was establushed based on a rumour and no evidence! And he was allowed! Nonsense!
Respectfully done
Yep, in all of humanity, there is something good and that little dot of bad and the reverse is true. It is however, important to note that indeed the Parastatals came into complete collapse under the hand of Pravin. The SAA was almost sold for R53.00 after bailing it out with millions and millions of PIC funds. Transnet collapsed completely under him and Mbalula and Ramaphosa. We as commuters who dependent on trains have felt it the most. I cannot even begin to say it was a question of mismanaging these institutions, it was a concerted effort to prepare these institutions for privatisation. May his soul rest in perfect peace though. I have said my peace and take on this matter.
In the end he became what he was fighting against initially.
I understand your diplomaticity. Dr Sizwe, because you are a public figure.
I will comment after those who were affected by his conduct, I want to hear those who knows him not on his ranking position.
Useless and a waste of space.
I was amusing Mr Gordan was from Western Cape he's from KZN.
He was corrupt
Thank you Mpofu emnyama this is a well balanced view. I thought you were going to echo the sentiments of EFF
Zuma reshuffled him bcos of dodgy dealings overseas with nene
Andre de Ruyter was useless.
You are undoubtedly one of the good and fair narrators/analysts at the moment
Spread the tsyisanyama😂❤
❤🙌🌍❤️❤️❤️🇿🇦
I disagree with you in mostly topics but this was a great analysis. Ur a critical thinker
What does this youngster know? Just creating content to gain recognition
It is so appalling that his daughters took a centre stage that he was victimized. Both together with Cyril Ramaphosa and Mac Maharaj lied about the narration the state capture and victimization on Gordhan.ANC is in crisis due to both Ramaposa and Gordhan.
There is no better analysis than this, He was not a saint, only human.Sizwe U are the best.
He was in the board of so many big compies?