Can you use a surge protector with an RV generator.
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- Опубліковано 30 лип 2024
- Can you use a surge protector with an RV generator. Let's tackle a common question among RV enthusiasts: "Should you use a surge protector with an RV generator?" Join us as we explore the pros and cons to help you make an informed decision.
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Well done and well said!
Good to know! Thanks!
Thanks for answering my question! I love watching your videos!
HOWEVER..what a surge protector such as the Watchdog does provide is data on how much power you're using via Bluetooth. That's what's valuable.
The EMS can also help protect against low voltage if your generator is unable to keep up with the load for whatever reason.
Good to know Tuesday Todd, thanks!
You bet!
Thank you! This is what I go by with my portable generators. The inverter generators even offer some built in protection too.
I've only used my surge protector on my Predator 9500 Watt, when I first bought it. I wanted to see if I was going to have to add a soft start to the a/c or not and to see what the total amp draw, we were actually using. Other than that, I only use my surge protector at campgrounds. As always, thanks for the great info Todd!!
THANK YOU!!!
Thanks godbless
I’ve used mine just in case but I’ve been told you don’t need to because the one I use is an inverter generator. It’s a Westinghouse iGen 4500DF. I’d love the answer to this once and for all Todd! Thanks!!!
Many of the automatic transfer switches are smart and have ground detection built in on the 30 amp input side. When using an outboard generator bringing power to the RV via the normal 30 amp power port, a bonding plug may be necessary to allow the transfer switch to think the generator has a ground. Onboard generators connect to the ATS on the generator side of the switch and so are already known to have no ground. This would also be true of a battery "Power Station" plugged into the 30 amp port.
Thank you Todd. I agonized over this not working for so long and finally found the plug that would allow it to work but NOW I know I didn't ever need it to begin with. Thank you Todd for making my RV life so much easier. I do use my Progressive Industries RV Surge Protector when on shore power.
You're welcome!
Lol I love topics like this! Not your fault, but it's still as clear as mud to me. Sooo... the bonding plug doesn't matter with outboard gens, only affords the loss of a couple safety concerns? My 50 amp Progressive surge protection is hardwired. Can't say thanks enough for tech Tuesdays!
"You can't get a voltage surge out of a generator". Normally agree but- if and when the voltage regulator on the generator goes out you're going to have a voltage surge. Been there and learned this the hard way.
True
Question is. I have the active control surge/ soft start I have to have the bonding plug to make the blue tooth and the soft start work. Is there any problem with this setup,
thanks for the tip, I do have a Watch dog question? when I plug my extension to a 110v outlet ( that has a ground fault reset on it) the watch dog wont let power pass into my rv, and I get a alert. When I plug the same same extension into a standard outlet or my gen it runs fine.. weird
i have a Predator 9000 generator and i want to use my Inverter welding machine with it, would it be okay to use it even though it’s considered a sensitive electronic machine?
i do know those little welding machines prefer pure sine wave power.
it’s going to be my mobile set up but buying at 3500 inverter generator vs using my current generator and grounding it along with using a surge protector seems like a much smarter move from a financial stand point.
I watched one of your videos on using a 30 amp cord instead of 50 amp which my fifth wheel is set up for.
Currently I am using a 30 amp plug into my 50 amp rv receptical and using a 30 amp cord ( since it is a lot lighter than the 50 amp one ) and using a 50 amp surge protector that plugs into a 30 amp reducer to cord.
Is this sufficient ?
Thanks , Doug
Been to few rv parks. 30 amp plug and could only use 5 amps and went below 102 volts. Shuts power off. If u understand electricity. Motors especially. If u lose voltage. U create heat. Heat means fires or lower life on motors or appliances. So i sure will keep using my ems from progressive industries. I have no issues with generator. Yes gotta fool it. But also bypass switch incase u dont wanna fool generstor ground. Dunno about other brands as i have hardwired progressive. Also i have had few times voltage at campground hit 132 volts. Musta went higher as shut voltage off. But what i also like is it monitors amperage also so u have better idea what all ur equipment is using. Good piece of mind if u travel not sure about what camps have for voltages.
For those with a hard-wired EMS and an external generator, the bonding plug appears to be the only way to make the connection work…unless I add a second power in that bypasses the EMS (my ubnit did come with a generator prep package so there is a transfer switch…boinding plug seems like the easier solution.
Exactly what I did yesterday. The Watch Dog trips out thinking a reversal has occurred. Sure one could go through a bunch of effort to do some bypassing but I do not plan to use it much so bonding plug to the rescue. Thanks for sharing
Yep, if you have a hard-wired EMS, a bonding plug is certainly the simplest way to get power from your generator to flow through your EMS. Yes, it's 'fooling' the EMS, but it's not hurting anything.
Incidentally, you also need a bonding plug if you ever want to power a gas furnace (as in a power outage) from a portable generator.
I have a Progressive Ind. EMS and there is a "Bypass" switch on the display. So when using a portable generator, just use a bonding plug or put the switch to bypass.
I just watched a video, happened upon it somehow, where a person plugged their WATCHDOG into their EcoFlow Pro electric generator, then their RV into the EcoFlow. I immediately thought, ”totally unnecessary.” I’m no expert but thought some of the same facts you just stated in this video, regarding the gas generator and knew my thoughts would also apply to an EcoFlow. As far as the info you get from the Watchdog…your Ecoflow provides all kinds of information via the app and the front panel.
Correct. The ecoflow really doesn’t need the watchdog.
I'm new to travel trailers. I plug directly into my generator (Firman WHO3342), but when I turn on my AC unit, it will trip the 20A breaker. What is the issue? Or fix?
I have a 30 amp Hughes autoformer hardwired to my travel trailer. I just tried use my Westinghouse 4500df for the first time and got the no ground code. Is getting the ground to neutral plug my best option?
Yes, you'll need to use a bonding plug (easily homemade but you can buy one too) to allow the EMS to pass the power from the generator through to your power panel.
Todd - battery question…my batteries are very difficult to access to see fluid levels. Had an RV tech tell me just fill it until it’s overflowing. Is that good advice? I thought some space was need so when it gets hot it won’t blow off the covers and contaminate the fluid, Rob
Do not do that. It will need space to off gas and the water will push the caps loose.
New subscriber and rver and planning to binge watch all your videos. Before I do , would like to know if I need to buy two multimeters, one with the clamps to read current and the other with the probes that read voltage and amps, dc and ac. Are there multimeters that do both to where I can only buy one. Thank you.
Klein Tools CL800 Digital Clamp Meter is the one recommended for the class , there are others that do both as well, hope this was your question, sorry my other replies kept getting deleted with a link.
Yes, absolutely
Todd, I have a new RV with an onboard Onan generator and I had the dealer install a built in Hughes Power Watch Dog before I picked it up. They installed it after my transfer switch. I tried my generator today and it does not work and the watch dog went nuts. I need to have it moved to to before the transfer switch on the shore power side to make this right, correct?
This is correct.
Thanks for the video: I have a two part question... 1. an internal EMS installed inside the rig would provide antitheft benefits would this require checking the pedestal with a multimeter before plugging into your rv? ... 2. having an internal ems 50 amp, but only 30 amp connection at the pedestal, do i have the same protection or more protection using a dongal to plug in a 50 amp trailor to a 30 am pedestal? what are some things i need to be concerned with having internal vs external EMS?
1) same protection, but without a multimeter you coudlnt confirm what the EMS is reading....im just one of those who likes to confirm.
2) same protection. The dogbone will simply abandon leg 2 and the 50amp breaker will only provide protection up to 50 amps HOWEVER your rv breaker will provide 30amp protection and flow is determined on demand.
Todd, we have a built-in EMS that is in the main line for the travel trailer. What will happen when I use my portable generator? Will it shut off my power because it sees a fault? thanks
Typically yes. In that case you must use a bonding plug or connect the frame of the genny to a ground source
@@NationalRVTrainingAcademy thank you. Appreciate the info.
I have a predator 5000 watts inverter Generator, when I connect the Watchdog 50 amp with the adapter to 30 amp I have the following situation , turn On the blower of the A/C with no issue, but immediately the compressor run , the EMS cut the power , and I have a massage Line 1 low power. But if I use only the generator and turn on the A/C I don’t have any problems. Any suggestions for this issue?? My RV is set for 50 amp.
Just bought my generator having the same extra issues,and am searching for answers
With a portable generator do u need a bonding plug?
The bonding plug is necessary only to keep your EMS happy. The generator itself is producing power that is cleaner and more stable than most utilities produce so the EMS is not necessary.
Two minute = 5:30
It could be 2 hour tech tip Tuesday for all I care. I love free knowledge from Todd!
Argument that an inverter generator is not going to create a surge? Well, it is an electronic device putting out power, so it is going to be well regulated in that regard. Of course if it is not getting enough power to meet demand, say you have a hard starting HVAC unit, then voltage will sag.
Argument that a generator does not need a ground - neutral bond? Well getting into a big reason why you don't want to bond at the RV is per NEC code an independently derived electrical system can only have a single ground - neutral bond. Ground normally is not supposed to have any power on it. You bond in two or more places and you create a ground loop. A ground loop tends to share current load with neutral back to source over the ground wire, so violates this rule about ground not normally carrying a load. Especially if you have a GFCI generator and you have a ground neutral bond elsewhere, it is just going to pop right and left as say half the return to source load will be on neutral and the other half will be on the ground wire, meaning a huge current differential between hot and neutral. So no, you don't want to bond in your RV by default because say you plug it into home / shore power where there is already a ground - neutral bond.
So getting back to that ground - neutral bond in the generator you plug your RV into? Well say you want to go back to the whole "hot skin" argument. Say you have a toaster oven in your RV that has its metal case connected to ground. Normally there is no current flow to the metal case, so all seems well at first. But now say the hot wire insulation melted because the toaster oven wasn't made right and is now shorted to the frame of the toaster oven. So then the case of the toaster oven is energized and everything connected to the ground wire is energized including the frame of your RV. Maybe the toast is made outside of your toaster oven. That is not good. Exactly the thing you are trying to avoid. Now say you have a ground - neutral bond in the generator or just outside of it. When that hot wire makes contact with the frame of the toaster oven, the power now has a low resistance path back to source over the ground - neutral bond. So a lot of current is drawn and the breaker immediately pops, clearing the fault. That is exactly what you want to have happen.
Another way to look at this is there is nothing magical about having a ground - neutral bond in your home. Having it in your home doesn't magically make it good and in a generator for an RV bad. Here is the difference between the two. With the home, you have a way to dissipate the power of a lightening strike into the ground and equalize the reference voltage to ground potential. That is useful, especially when connected to the grid and there is a lightening strike, but now say your power source is the generator, not the grid. Well that actually negates out the biggest thing that ground rod is for because there is no exposed wire for a lightening bolt to hit. It seems the people writing the NEC standards noticed this and dropped the requirement for a ground rod for a portable generator. So it is the ground rod that is not really helping you. They do require the ground - neutral bond though. That is the thing that is going to keep you from getting killed.
One more consideration is GFCI. GFCI needs power to take a different path back to source than neutral. GFCI can't even be tested unless there is a ground - neutral bond for the test button to be able to dump to ground, thus creating that current differential between hot and neutral. So yeah, GFCI is not designed to work this way and cannot be tested, so could be completely bad and not work at all, but you would never know because the test button never did anything with the improper wiring.