This isn't a review its just a rant about FI which I understand as I also have the same issue with FI and love carbs but feel you stuck on the negative a bit to much and didn't emphasis the positives enough its a fantastic bike, love your other videos keep up the great work
2nd Generation Hayabusa has SPOT ON fuel injection, absolutely flawless. Like a carbureted engine. Absolutely no throttle snatch, no popping, no rough spot, and feels like it's supercharged throughout the entire rev range, at all RPM's. But this is with the STOCK EXHAUST system. Once you change the stock exhaust, at all, or if you drill a hole in your air box, or even change to a fake filter (K&N "filter") you may need to do dyno tuning, and have the fueling and timing slightly remapped.
The factory muffler gives better jetting, and more horsepower. You can't change the exhaust without re-flashing the ECU or re-jetting carbs. You get a nice good rough spot in the engine around 4500 rpms when you remove the back pressure, and change the fueling. The factory muffler would solve some of the jetting issues. I have seen this happen a million times. Changing the muffler is a recipe for disaster. Anyway, the stock muffler cost $1200, so it's unfortunate that people don't take care of them, and always crash them up and throw them away. I've been searching for a single stock Hayabusa muffler for months, and not a single muffler is for sale without bad scratches.
LOL @ the ex girl friend comment!!! Interesting to hear your comments - I test rode the 800 recently and loved it, but really didn't like the 1050 Tiger Sport. I'm not sure I would notice the mapping the way you do, I'm just not experienced enough, so it's always good to hear a point of view from a veteran rider as it gives me food for thought. Cheers mate, ride safe :)
Glad you liked it, I do have a weird sense of humour and have to be careful airing it on my channel due to the nature of it lol. Thanks for your comment buddy. :-)
That's a good point about the exhaust. I fit my own, don't like paying people to do what I can do myself. Most people get hung up on their shiny new exhaust and forget about the standard one, but you've paid for it and it belongs to you. Great video as always!
Absolutely !! What are they going to do with it if not sell it? He should go to them and take them to court if need be. When he sells the bike the next owner may want it quiet, no arrow, no baseball card on a clothes pin hitting the spokes. BTW he has an aftermarket can and doesn't guess it may have something to do with his fuel flow issue. Well he is right in that the shop got good money and should take the time to set it up properly.
I had a 2007 1050 and loved it, five years and sold it. Had all manner of bikes since, Duc, BMW, Aprillia. It was the best, smoothest engine. Can't get the newer 1050 here in the states. I think I will buy a 2011.
Fuel injection: "zz-r1200 Kawasaki wasn't too bad" - that's because the big zzr1200 was not fuel injected, in fact it's said to be the most powerful non-fuel-injected bike.
It's the emissions regs that make the fuelling crap. To avoid hydrocarbons in the exhaust gasses on overrun, the fuel map drops off a cliff when you shut the throttle. Manufacturers can not change this or allow a way round it, the bike simply would not be cleared for sale. I think it's dangerous to have ride bikes with one of there major control mechanisms so molested. Saying that, they insist on ABS now aswell. Is there any way an industry body for instructors (or similar) could pen an open letter to the emotions regulators. Stating the safety implications of running such jerky FI.
The problem with emissions is that when the throttle is closed the butterflies on the injectors shut completely, open the throttle again and there will be a snatch. This is all down to eliminating unburnt fuel to meet those dreaded emissions regs. The only way around it is remapping, the manufacturers can't set it up that way as they would fail the regs if they did. My last carb bike was a Fazer 1000 that had been jetted and it was the most controllable bike I have ever owned, FI has been a huge step backwards for motorcycling and ironically makes a bike less safe nowadays. Look at the MT-07, twitchy as heck, back wheel steps out on damp roads. The 2nd gen Fazer was the same, I kept mine about 2 months, it was terrifying on wet autumn back roads. I had a new 1050 in 2009, rode it all over Europe, lovely bike, but happiest cruising at 100mph, though it was also used for the daily city commute. I am now thinking of getting another, and spending money on the FI.
Regarding that muffler theft comment ... I didn't know that! Yet it makes perfect sense. You pay for a bike, you pay extra on top of the base price, so you should be able to keep everything that came with that base price, by law. Nice, will remember that for sure when I buy a brand new bike!
Good information about the original cam...would never have known about that! I rather like hearing all your moans about bikes as it just gives us a good perspective and something to think about.
I'm known to be fussy about the carb setup on my Morini 3 1/2 Sport, taking a lot of care to get both idle stops and cables properly synchronised. I recon it's worth at least two bike lengths coming out of Mansfield at Cadwell. If I can't trickle along at a fast walking pace and have it pick up cleanly as I wind on the throttle, then it's time to sorts the carbs again (which isn't often. My GTS1000 wasn't bad on the EFI, but the worn out chain wasn't helping. Due to a number of factors, I decided to have a Yamaha specialist fit the new chain and sprockets, check the valve clearances, and do a general service. The throttle response is nearly vice-less now and I can recommend Gavin Croot Motorcycle repairs if you need any work done on your GTS.
Interesting thoughts Russ! I would also be looking at the Tracer (if in the Market for a tourer) but if the MT-09 is anything to go by the Fueling will probably drive you even more crazy on that :-)
Hi, a very good video again. I've got to say that's the first time I have come across a less than perfect review of the Tiger (I won't say bad because it wasn't). I can't say that I have ever come across that problem on two wheels or four in 36 years of experience, perhaps I'm missing something. Keep up the good work, always interesting to watch.
I am loving some of your videos, I have a Tiger 1050 sport and have swapped the exhaust for one which you can remove the baffle, as well as getting a custom ECU tune, the bike is silky smooth at low revs and smooth all the way through the rev range, no power commander required :)
I loved my Tiger and my BMW GS - I must be rubbish when it comes to noticing fuelling issues!!! Loved to hear the sound of the ol' 1050 engine again, unlike you and The Crumble I do miss my 1050 (a bit, sometimes....). Give the STripleR a go, I defy you to say that's pants too :0) Great vid as usual mate, thanks for posting.....
All you need is TuneECU, which is free, a laptop, and a £10 OBD11 cable to remap your Tiger. No Power Commander required on pre 13 Triumphs. Factory maps are too lean due to emisions, custom maps are freely available from the TuneECU website, or Triumph Torque. Check it out before ditching one of the best bikes you are ever likely find.
I did my mod1/2 on a FI ER-6F, the fuelling was a total dog. Was ok on acceleration, but when trying to hold a steady speed at 30-40mph it'd hunt and be all over the shop. My Carb'd CBR600 is a breath of fresh air though. Carbs are the future... Ironically.
You say you don't like the fuelling but you don't describe the symptoms. I've put 3000 miles on a 2014 1050 Speed Triple R and the fuelling was immaculate. Manufacturers are hamstrung by homologation and emission regulations but we used to have this with carb bikes as well. Remember the popularity of Dynojet kits? At low speed, in traffic say, just balance clutch and throttle instead of solely working the throttle.
I really hear your comments on the injection mapping here....to my mind it is the emissions control, particularly here in California. I think the injectors are mapped to shut down fuel feed as quickly as possibly thereby not flowing raw or under combusted gas (petrol) out of the tailpipe. This leads to the hunting and jumping you talk about, particularly in the lower gears and lower rpm's. It makes it very difficult to be smooth on those throttle transitions, except when you are fully accelerating and then the computers know to throw the fuel at it. Bad news is that I don't think the OEM's can escape from this as they homologate their machines for the various regimes they must satisfy. I have a '14 Ninja 650 and in the lower gears, 1-3 on and off throttle transitions are difficult to keep smooth and nice. Hence, Power Commander.
Russ I owned a 09 tiger for 2 years before it was written off, had no problems with fueling my only gripe was the pish head lights absolutely good for nothing. If it wasn't for that would have got another one, but got a Sprint St instead and your right on with the panniers they are to small.
My 1050 Sprint has smooth injection, at least to me. All stock though. He could put it on a computer to check what the map is and even adjust it himself then. I agree that he paid plenty for the bike and the shop should set it up for him, even if it takes a few hours of their time. It shouldn't. There may be information about map for Arrow exhaust on the Triumph forums. When one adds an aftermarket can to any bike the map is affected. He is talking about a modified fuel flow anyway since he doesn't have the stock back pressure. I wonder if his friends' Tiger is the same. I like his honest reviews.
Hi Roadcraft i got to say a few years back i watched one of your videos, and straight out hated you, but coming back now i got to say your an alright bloke.
Hi Roadcraft Nottingham. Been a long time sub. Is there a reason why your not uploading instructional videos? Nice vids though anyway, I enjoy listening to your voice.
Totally with you on this gripe. I bought an ‘08model and feeding the power back in smoothly once you’ve slowed for a junction, sharp corner etc is nigh on impossible. The bikes is great once on the move but the fuelling does spoil it and mine eats front discs for some reason, third pair needed and only 13k miles done!! I’d always wanted a Triumph but has serious doubts about another, I find my 20 yr old TLS more rewarding to ride albeit a lot more uncomfortable and ..er..twitchy!
Interesting comments about the fuel injection -I have an 08 plate 1050 and TBH love it. However it seems that those that do have an issue with it grab a copy of TuneECU and drop another map on which seems to cure most ills. I don't notice it as an issue and I'm getting around 44-46 to the gallon so maybe mine was mapped before I bought it or I'm not tuned in enough to notice. Will look again!!! Cheers
And before you say it - I agree that poor fuelling shouldn't be a problem and that manufacturers should provide a fix especially for the money you're paying for the bike. As so many don't I guess there is no impetus for them to... No excuse though..
I had a Sprint1050 (so broadly similar engine) and can't agree with you. Nothing can match the smoothness of carbs but Triumph are a hell of a lot better than most regarding fuel injection.
I have a 2005 Triumph 955i Daytona which one of the previous owners had fitted. I,m not quite sure what they exactly do but assume it improves the efficiently of the fuel injection system?
did not quite catch what you said there in the end,,, fuel what ? only messing good honest re-view is what i like to see, and if a moans comes with so be it cheers Russ
Well it wouldn't be good if you get a defect due to the muffler over here without the original muffler how do you get it back on the road!! I rode a Honda hornet 900 once and it had FI and I thought it was very strange through the gears not like my bandit 1200 smooth power.
You did well, I'd rather know what's wrong with the bike than know what's right. I judge things by their weakest charachteristic, not by their strongest. whenever for example i look up helmet's sharp tests, however strong the front or the top is, if the side is weak, then the whole helmet is weak, that's the way I roll. Ty for the vid :)
I have that bike. 2010 SE. Same colors. I don't get your comment about fueling at all and I've had bikes with bad fueling ('08 KTM LC8) so I don't know what you're going on about.
can you do a review on the yamaha fz600 fazer? ive just got my full motorcycle licence and struggling what to choose. im 6ft 1 and think a sports bike would be a bit too small for me. :) p.s. love your viedos
As soon as you said brand new, i thought he's gonna bitch about the fuel injection. You are not the only one who doesn't like the new tiger. Its a very middle of the road bike, nothing fantastic about it but nothing too horrific either (with exception of the fuel injection). There is nothing about it that that screams OH MAH GAWD. Its more like Meh, gets me from A to B. Still it can tour, commute and everything else. If anyone is looking for a touring bike I still recommend the ST1100. Good review, ride safe bro!
Have tested a 2020 version for 2 hours in the city. Did not have this problem so let me reply to you within a few months 👍 before this bike I had a 2016 suzuki sv 650 so I will really reply to you in aug 21 😉
Hi craft I watch your vids great ! But I'm not with you on that fuelling subject ,I bough an 08 se and model and have to say best best all round bike I've oned and ridden and I ride everyday rain or shine so 🤔
My tiger lasted 2000 miles before I had had enough of the fueling and transmission. Spent hrs putting new tunes on the ecu but decided it should be right out of the box. New Zzr1400 is much better but suffers pre ignition at low revs under load!! Ahhhhh. Dealer states most new bikes are tuned very lean but they cannot adjust them. Stick some better cans on and the problem will get worse. Bring back the carbs!
Ive just got my first big bike, a tiger 800. I noticed that strange fluctuation of the engine and just thought thats what a triple sounds like! It is quite annoying actually but i dont tend to notice it much now.
But look what you replaced it with The Crumble bit chalk and cheese those two, From a 1050 to a Triple. Any ideas what next ? You must be due to change sometime soon??
na, your totally right about fuel injected bikes twitching about... i own a 2009 bonneville se and i bought it without test riding when i was about 18 and still feeling like i prefer my carbed yamaha ybr 125 but oh well think i'll get a classic next then i should be safe :P...p.s loving the vids, thumbs up!
Right I'll keep my SV then lol. One thing I will say about my SV is it doesnt really like the lower gears especially when I accelerate. It prefers to be in a higher gear and to be put into 2nd or 3rd as quick as possible. Is that normal? I've never really been to sure if it is.
It's the engine braking and extra torque. My father's SV1000 was the same way. Jerky in first but pretty smooth everywhere else. Ducatis tend to be like that as well with stock fueling. Even after tuning the engine braking can make things feel like an on/off switch if you're not smooth with your throttle hand.
RoadcraftNottingham I'll bring it round one Saturday, make sure you've got your Drift ready to roll! I don't think you'll find it particularly exciting with a rev limiter at 6.5k, but it's got some torque and it's as smooth as glass. If you think the fuel injection is crap on the NC there's no hope for you :P
I'm considering one of these to accompany my Street Triple for 2-up European tours and long weekends away with the missus. Do you have any other alternatives you would recommend? I have also considered a Super Blackbird as an oddball choice as they're very comfortable and "fun".
I had a Blackbird (well, 3) and found at 5 feet 8 it was a stretch, causing back and wrist ache. The new MT09 Tracer coming out in March looks interesting.
I'd be after an older machine for a second bike I reckon, as it's likely to get a little bit of a battering. I'm 5'10" in those funny units of measurement :p
Can you recommend a bike for myself? I'm 6' 5" and limited to a 125 for another year :( I was looking at the Honda Varadero as it's nice and tall but with Honda not making them they are becoming less and less common and affordable. Cheers
With fuel injection a control unit reads the throttle opening and tells the injectors to deliver fuel. That transition between no fuel and giving some fuel can be too harsh causing the problem I describe so the result is a on-off twitch when the throttle opening is just on that closed/open edge.
RoadcraftNottingham A loose or gummed-up chain can also exacerbate the problem. Pretty much all FI motorcycles I've ridden have had sub-par fueling from the factory. It's either sheer laziness or trying to be well within emissions standards. At least Triumphs have Tuneboy as an option so you can directly remap the ECU. My Speed Triple was buttery smooth after an hour or so on a dyno getting the map sorted. It also got 5-10mpg more than stock.
Where's the moaning? Haha I think everyone would agree with you regarding the fuel injection, IMO there's nothing worse than dodgy fueling from the factory. Also regarding the stock exhausts,there's a few dealers I've been to that do exactly that keep your stock can and stick it on ebay £90-100 a pop, then you don't realise until you come to sell the bike when the buyer asks for the stock exhaust.
LOL, well that cheered up my Monday morning, You're "ex-girlfriend" comment just about made me fall off my seat. To be honest I don't care if you are moaning and bitching, I just like seeing more content from Roadcraftnottingham. Good review and it would be fascinating to see you put together with manufacturers to discuss their approach to fuel injection and your own observations. Now that would be a great video :-) Keep it up Russ.
You are spoilt buy the 1100 Pan Russ, I own an 1100 Pan and a new R1200GS water cooled, and whilst the GS is great for a fuel injected bike its not Pan smooth. Can't see that fuel injection, ride by wire, will ever be quite as good as a well balanced carb setup. If Honda started making the 1100 Pan exactly as it was again, with no silly changes, I bet their accounts would be very happy, they'd sell like hot cakes !
The 2012 model F800GS was shit too, you couldn't downshift without it stalling, i didn't dare go around roundabouts without it expecting to cut out and throw me off ( funny how fast this makes you fear the bike if it does it a few dozen times :) ). Powercommander fixed it :). So i must agree with you Russ i would never keep a bike that was that shit, and the investment into a power commander has its downsides too. Expensive to buy but also doesn't play well with the self learning anti-temper muck in the ECU, had the bike go into limp home mode because of it a few times where it would just pore in fuel and run waaaaay to rich. Its sorted now but its the only thing i do not like.
Haw about that fual injection!! :- ))) LOL. just got a 2007 speed triple 1050 before the brembo brakes model.. soft ride none ajustable shocks no storege space and will not sit at 60 70mph with out giving it jud jud jud jud jud..its like its got a stuter. Not a triumph fan any more my first and last! Back to kawasaki next bike. Also like your videos haw wachd alot iver the years..
Good thing about the Triumphs is you can download free software (TuneECU) and remap it yourself, to how you want it…there's a bunch of 'pre-configured' maps out there in the forums etc that you can just install very easily, all you need is a PC and a cheap $10 OBDII USB cable. I've remapped my Rocket III and my Daytona 650 with it, no need to have an expensive Power Commander :)
How's this for manufacturer's fucking about. . I've got the 2008 r6 and I do love lt and it is a high rev bike but in the lower rpm even 7k it's a complete dog thanks to two catalic converters in two of the downpipes and a great bike silencer box with another converter.
This isn't a review its just a rant about FI which I understand as I also have the same issue with FI and love carbs but feel you stuck on the negative a bit to much and didn't emphasis the positives enough its a fantastic bike, love your other videos keep up the great work
2nd Generation Hayabusa has SPOT ON fuel injection, absolutely flawless. Like a carbureted engine. Absolutely no throttle snatch, no popping, no rough spot, and feels like it's supercharged throughout the entire rev range, at all RPM's. But this is with the STOCK EXHAUST system. Once you change the stock exhaust, at all, or if you drill a hole in your air box, or even change to a fake filter (K&N "filter") you may need to do dyno tuning, and have the fueling and timing slightly remapped.
The factory muffler gives better jetting, and more horsepower. You can't change the exhaust without re-flashing the ECU or re-jetting carbs. You get a nice good rough spot in the engine around 4500 rpms when you remove the back pressure, and change the fueling. The factory muffler would solve some of the jetting issues. I have seen this happen a million times. Changing the muffler is a recipe for disaster. Anyway, the stock muffler cost $1200, so it's unfortunate that people don't take care of them, and always crash them up and throw them away. I've been searching for a single stock Hayabusa muffler for months, and not a single muffler is for sale without bad scratches.
LOL @ the ex girl friend comment!!! Interesting to hear your comments - I test rode the 800 recently and loved it, but really didn't like the 1050 Tiger Sport. I'm not sure I would notice the mapping the way you do, I'm just not experienced enough, so it's always good to hear a point of view from a veteran rider as it gives me food for thought. Cheers mate, ride safe :)
Glad you liked it, I do have a weird sense of humour and have to be careful airing it on my channel due to the nature of it lol. Thanks for your comment buddy. :-)
That's a good point about the exhaust. I fit my own, don't like paying people to do what I can do myself. Most people get hung up on their shiny new exhaust and forget about the standard one, but you've paid for it and it belongs to you. Great video as always!
Absolutely !! What are they going to do with it if not sell it? He should go to them and take them to court if need be. When he sells the bike the next owner may want it quiet, no arrow, no baseball card on a clothes pin hitting the spokes. BTW he has an aftermarket can and doesn't guess it may have something to do with his fuel flow issue. Well he is right in that the shop got good money and should take the time to set it up properly.
I had a 2007 1050 and loved it, five years and sold it. Had all manner of bikes since, Duc, BMW, Aprillia. It was the best, smoothest engine. Can't get the newer 1050 here in the states. I think I will buy a 2011.
Fuel injection: "zz-r1200 Kawasaki wasn't too bad" - that's because the big zzr1200 was not fuel injected, in fact it's said to be the most powerful non-fuel-injected bike.
Yep, carbs all the way, good fuel economy too.
It's the emissions regs that make the fuelling crap. To avoid hydrocarbons in the exhaust gasses on overrun, the fuel map drops off a cliff when you shut the throttle. Manufacturers can not change this or allow a way round it, the bike simply would not be cleared for sale.
I think it's dangerous to have ride bikes with one of there major control mechanisms so molested. Saying that, they insist on ABS now aswell.
Is there any way an industry body for instructors (or similar) could pen an open letter to the emotions regulators. Stating the safety implications of running such jerky FI.
The problem with emissions is that when the throttle is closed the butterflies on the injectors shut completely, open the throttle again and there will be a snatch. This is all down to eliminating unburnt fuel to meet those dreaded emissions regs. The only way around it is remapping, the manufacturers can't set it up that way as they would fail the regs if they did. My last carb bike was a Fazer 1000 that had been jetted and it was the most controllable bike I have ever owned, FI has been a huge step backwards for motorcycling and ironically makes a bike less safe nowadays. Look at the MT-07, twitchy as heck, back wheel steps out on damp roads. The 2nd gen Fazer was the same, I kept mine about 2 months, it was terrifying on wet autumn back roads. I had a new 1050 in 2009, rode it all over Europe, lovely bike, but happiest cruising at 100mph, though it was also used for the daily city commute. I am now thinking of getting another, and spending money on the FI.
Googel+... Great info. Thanks
Regarding that muffler theft comment ... I didn't know that! Yet it makes perfect sense. You pay for a bike, you pay extra on top of the base price, so you should be able to keep everything that came with that base price, by law. Nice, will remember that for sure when I buy a brand new bike!
Great review. We love a bit of honesty!
Good information about the original cam...would never have known about that!
I rather like hearing all your moans about bikes as it just gives us a good perspective and something to think about.
A good honest review, nothing better than that! Good job russ!
"It's like you're riding an ex-girlfriend" I keeled over in laughter at that!
I'm known to be fussy about the carb setup on my Morini 3 1/2 Sport, taking a lot of care to get both idle stops and cables properly synchronised. I recon it's worth at least two bike lengths coming out of Mansfield at Cadwell. If I can't trickle along at a fast walking pace and have it pick up cleanly as I wind on the throttle, then it's time to sorts the carbs again (which isn't often.
My GTS1000 wasn't bad on the EFI, but the worn out chain wasn't helping. Due to a number of factors, I decided to have a Yamaha specialist fit the new chain and sprockets, check the valve clearances, and do a general service. The throttle response is nearly vice-less now and I can recommend Gavin Croot Motorcycle repairs if you need any work done on your GTS.
You are absolutely right for the fuel injection mapping. Nice video man
Interesting thoughts Russ!
I would also be looking at the Tracer (if in the Market for a tourer) but if the MT-09 is anything to go by the Fueling will probably drive you even more crazy on that :-)
That's what I'm worried about... I love the looks of it though. If it sounds anything like yours I'll buy it for the sound alone. Lol.
Hi, a very good video again.
I've got to say that's the first time I have come across a less than perfect review of the Tiger (I won't say bad because it wasn't).
I can't say that I have ever come across that problem on two wheels or four in 36 years of experience, perhaps I'm missing something.
Keep up the good work, always interesting to watch.
I get the impression he doesn't like the fuel injection.
I am loving some of your videos, I have a Tiger 1050 sport and have swapped the exhaust for one which you can remove the baffle, as well as getting a custom ECU tune, the bike is silky smooth at low revs and smooth all the way through the rev range, no power commander required :)
I loved my Tiger and my BMW GS - I must be rubbish when it comes to noticing fuelling issues!!! Loved to hear the sound of the ol' 1050 engine again, unlike you and The Crumble I do miss my 1050 (a bit, sometimes....). Give the STripleR a go, I defy you to say that's pants too :0) Great vid as usual mate, thanks for posting.....
Russ needs to ride the new WC version of the GS that you have (and me).
Agreed, I'd certainly be interested to see if he thought it had fuelling issues (for personal calibration reasons if nothing else!)
I'd put myself in the picky class of riders too. I spent a lot of money sorting out my Diavel - Russ ran one of these for a while too.
ua-cam.com/video/06a0QsvyDZw/v-deo.html
:-D
All you need is TuneECU, which is free, a laptop, and a £10 OBD11 cable to remap your Tiger. No Power Commander required on pre 13 Triumphs.
Factory maps are too lean due to emisions, custom maps are freely available from the TuneECU website, or Triumph Torque.
Check it out before ditching one of the best bikes you are ever likely find.
I did my mod1/2 on a FI ER-6F, the fuelling was a total dog. Was ok on acceleration, but when trying to hold a steady speed at 30-40mph it'd hunt and be all over the shop. My Carb'd CBR600 is a breath of fresh air though. Carbs are the future... Ironically.
You say you don't like the fuelling but you don't describe the symptoms. I've put 3000 miles on a 2014 1050 Speed Triple R and the fuelling was immaculate. Manufacturers are hamstrung by homologation and emission regulations but we used to have this with carb bikes as well. Remember the popularity of Dynojet kits? At low speed, in traffic say, just balance clutch and throttle instead of solely working the throttle.
I really hear your comments on the injection mapping here....to my mind it is the emissions control, particularly here in California. I think the injectors are mapped to shut down fuel feed as quickly as possibly thereby not flowing raw or under combusted gas (petrol) out of the tailpipe. This leads to the hunting and jumping you talk about, particularly in the lower gears and lower rpm's. It makes it very difficult to be smooth on those throttle transitions, except when you are fully accelerating and then the computers know to throw the fuel at it. Bad news is that I don't think the OEM's can escape from this as they homologate their machines for the various regimes they must satisfy. I have a '14 Ninja 650 and in the lower gears, 1-3 on and off throttle transitions are difficult to keep smooth and nice. Hence, Power Commander.
LOL at your own hunting and hesitating during the vid, Russ. Must say something other than about the FI.. :) Great review!
Good onya Limey,Im over all these prissy reviews,tell it like it is, lashings of gingerale old chap
Russ I owned a 09 tiger for 2 years before it was written off, had no problems with fueling my only gripe was the pish head lights absolutely good for nothing. If it wasn't for that would have got another one, but got a Sprint St instead and your right on with the panniers they are to small.
My 1050 Sprint has smooth injection, at least to me. All stock though. He could put it on a computer to check what the map is and even adjust it himself then. I agree that he paid plenty for the bike and the shop should set it up for him, even if it takes a few hours of their time. It shouldn't. There may be information about map for Arrow exhaust on the Triumph forums. When one adds an aftermarket can to any bike the map is affected. He is talking about a modified fuel flow anyway since he doesn't have the stock back pressure. I wonder if his friends' Tiger is the same. I like his honest reviews.
Hi Roadcraft i got to say a few years back i watched one of your videos, and straight out hated you, but coming back now i got to say your an alright bloke.
How about the suzuki gladius sfv 650?? Ever ridden one of those?
I have the 2010 model and cant fault it, plenty of power and handles really well, must say i have'nt noticed any issues with the fuel injection.
Hi Roadcraft Nottingham. Been a long time sub. Is there a reason why your not uploading instructional videos? Nice vids though anyway, I enjoy listening to your voice.
Totally with you on this gripe. I bought an ‘08model and feeding the power back in smoothly once you’ve slowed for a junction, sharp corner etc is nigh on impossible. The bikes is great once on the move but the fuelling does spoil it and mine eats front discs for some reason, third pair needed and only 13k miles done!! I’d always wanted a Triumph but has serious doubts about another, I find my 20 yr old TLS more rewarding to ride albeit a lot more uncomfortable and ..er..twitchy!
Looks like a nice bike. The can looks good, but I think they should cover the bike that leads to the can, because it just looks strange. Ride safe!
how's the mapping on the tiger?
I had a 2007 for 5 years, never noticed a FI problem? Maybe they buggered it for emission?
I like the looks of the bike but not with the bags on. Would an after market fuel control unit fix the FI problem?
I stoped when you said "The thing thats making me not keep it" and here comes my guess. The Fuel injection is jerky?
YESSSSS I was right :)
Interesting comments about the fuel injection -I have an 08 plate 1050 and TBH love it. However it seems that those that do have an issue with it grab a copy of TuneECU and drop another map on which seems to cure most ills. I don't notice it as an issue and I'm getting around 44-46 to the gallon so maybe mine was mapped before I bought it or I'm not tuned in enough to notice. Will look again!!! Cheers
And before you say it - I agree that poor fuelling shouldn't be a problem and that manufacturers should provide a fix especially for the money you're paying for the bike. As so many don't I guess there is no impetus for them to... No excuse though..
I had a Sprint1050 (so broadly similar engine) and can't agree with you. Nothing can match the smoothness of carbs but Triumph are a hell of a lot better than most regarding fuel injection.
I have a 2005 Triumph 955i Daytona which one of the previous owners had fitted. I,m not quite sure what they exactly do but assume it improves the efficiently of the fuel injection system?
What's the reliability like on the Tigers? I'm torn between a Tiger and GS
did you not test ride it before you got it? I find it hard to believe that this day and age EFI is still an issue.
I remember you saying that the fuel injection on the Street Triple R was almost bang on. I wonder why it's so different on this tiger.
I like your reviews, thanks
Have you tried the Suzuki vstrom 650 or 1000? Both good bikes in my opinion.
Nice vid :-)
did not quite catch what you said there in the end,,, fuel what ? only messing good honest re-view is what i like to see, and if a moans comes with so be it cheers Russ
Well it wouldn't be good if you get a defect due to the muffler over here without the original muffler how do you get it back on the road!! I rode a Honda hornet 900 once and it had FI and I thought it was very strange through the gears not like my bandit 1200 smooth power.
Must be the exhaust causing the roughness of engine if its not been mapped properly
Ridden quite a few biikes now but I have not found any that I like better than my 2012 Kawasaki Versys 650.
You did well, I'd rather know what's wrong with the bike than know what's right. I judge things by their weakest charachteristic, not by their strongest.
whenever for example i look up helmet's sharp tests, however strong the front or the top is, if the side is weak, then the whole helmet is weak, that's the way I roll.
Ty for the vid :)
I have that bike. 2010 SE. Same colors. I don't get your comment about fueling at all and I've had bikes with bad fueling ('08 KTM LC8) so I don't know what you're going on about.
can you do a review on the yamaha fz600 fazer? ive just got my full motorcycle licence and struggling what to choose. im 6ft 1 and think a sports bike would be a bit too small for me. :) p.s. love your viedos
would love for you to do a review of my wr125x would be mint
You really should look into the booster plug to sort out the fueling what's more no need for a remap and less than 100 pounds.
For one negative point there were a lot of positives in your commentary. Seems a pity
As soon as you said brand new, i thought he's gonna bitch about the fuel injection. You are not the only one who doesn't like the new tiger. Its a very middle of the road bike, nothing fantastic about it but nothing too horrific either (with exception of the fuel injection). There is nothing about it that that screams OH MAH GAWD. Its more like Meh, gets me from A to B. Still it can tour, commute and everything else. If anyone is looking for a touring bike I still recommend the ST1100. Good review, ride safe bro!
Just to be clear, did you not like the fuel injection?
Shame to hear about the injection issues fella - did you feel the same way about the Street Triple?
Funnily enough, the street wasn't that bad but I could just about feel it. I want another play on a street triple, really enjoyed that one. ☺
Isnt it fixable with a power comander?
I've never ridden a fuel injected bike, probably about time I did, and I live the sound of the Triumph triples, best get one test ridden I spose :)
The triple engine is amazing, sure you'll love it....... Just don't ride at a very steady 30 on level ground. Grrr
Bugger, 30mph for 1.5 miles in every direction from my house :)
Have tested a 2020 version for 2 hours in the city. Did not have this problem so let me reply to you within a few months 👍 before this bike I had a 2016 suzuki sv 650 so I will really reply to you in aug 21 😉
Please do but remember to get loads of miles in. Good luck. ☺
I CALLED IT!!!! "why aren't I keeping this bike?" I was like BOOM Fuel injection is crap! Haha I obviously know you well enough :P
worst review ever, fantastic bike, your knowledge about fuel injection is completely wrong
you're obviously not experienced enough to understand what I mean. Google it before making ignorant comments
You should try the DL1000 AL4 2014!! ( I don't know if you have done it or not) :P
Hi craft I watch your vids great ! But I'm not with you on that fuelling subject ,I bough an 08 se and model and have to say best best all round bike I've oned and ridden and I ride everyday rain or shine so 🤔
Yes, it's just you :o) If you leave it idling for 12 minutes the fueling sorts itself out, don't ask me how it works, but it does.
My tiger lasted 2000 miles before I had had enough of the fueling and transmission. Spent hrs putting new tunes on the ecu but decided it should be right out of the box. New Zzr1400 is much better but suffers pre ignition at low revs under load!! Ahhhhh. Dealer states most new bikes are tuned very lean but they cannot adjust them. Stick some better cans on and the problem will get worse. Bring back the carbs!
Ive just got my first big bike, a tiger 800. I noticed that strange fluctuation of the engine and just thought thats what a triple sounds like! It is quite annoying actually but i dont tend to notice it much now.
What was the problem then Russ? I found it a thirsty bugger too-don't miss it at all tbh. Oh well on to the next one eh?
Onwards and upwards matey. Enjoyed that rideout that day :-)
But look what you replaced it with The Crumble bit chalk and cheese those two, From a 1050 to a Triple. Any ideas what next ? You must be due to change sometime soon??
na, your totally right about fuel injected bikes twitching about... i own a 2009 bonneville se and i bought it without test riding when i was about 18 and still feeling like i prefer my carbed yamaha ybr 125 but oh well think i'll get a classic next then i should be safe :P...p.s loving the vids, thumbs up!
Right I'll keep my SV then lol. One thing I will say about my SV is it doesnt really like the lower gears especially when I accelerate. It prefers to be in a higher gear and to be put into 2nd or 3rd as quick as possible. Is that normal? I've never really been to sure if it is.
It's the engine braking and extra torque. My father's SV1000 was the same way. Jerky in first but pretty smooth everywhere else. Ducatis tend to be like that as well with stock fueling. Even after tuning the engine braking can make things feel like an on/off switch if you're not smooth with your throttle hand.
Thanks.
Thats good :o)
Fancy doing a review of the Honda NC700S? You can use my bike for the video. :)
Now that's one bike I WOULD be interested in playing with!! :-)
RoadcraftNottingham I'll bring it round one Saturday, make sure you've got your Drift ready to roll! I don't think you'll find it particularly exciting with a rev limiter at 6.5k, but it's got some torque and it's as smooth as glass. If you think the fuel injection is crap on the NC there's no hope for you :P
KingLies Saturdays are my worst day as it's so busy. Wait till its a bit warmer then we'll take it for a blast. ☺
had the same thing with my FZ1... had to fit power commander to smooth it out when yamaha should have sorted it.. maybe they're better at pianos??
I'm considering one of these to accompany my Street Triple for 2-up European tours and long weekends away with the missus.
Do you have any other alternatives you would recommend? I have also considered a Super Blackbird as an oddball choice as they're very comfortable and "fun".
I had a Blackbird (well, 3) and found at 5 feet 8 it was a stretch, causing back and wrist ache. The new MT09 Tracer coming out in March looks interesting.
I'd be after an older machine for a second bike I reckon, as it's likely to get a little bit of a battering. I'm 5'10" in those funny units of measurement :p
Maybe try something with carbs like the earlier Honda Varadero 1000?
Looks interesting, and I have a preference Honda for the long trips for their reliability. A strong contender!
I'll skip the moaning part... about that fuel injection, what is it that you actually mean?
Could someone explain that is meant by smooth fuel injection?
Can you recommend a bike for myself?
I'm 6' 5" and limited to a 125 for another year :(
I was looking at the Honda Varadero as it's nice and tall but with Honda not making them they are becoming less and less common and affordable.
Cheers
Maybe take a look at the V strom 1000, the Varadero 1000, and the Kawasaki Versys 1000. Give them a look :-)
How does one "feel" bad injection? How does one invoke bad injection behavior?
I got an ER-6f -09 and haven't felt anything wrong the way I ride it.
With fuel injection a control unit reads the throttle opening and tells the injectors to deliver fuel. That transition between no fuel and giving some fuel can be too harsh causing the problem I describe so the result is a on-off twitch when the throttle opening is just on that closed/open edge.
RoadcraftNottingham A loose or gummed-up chain can also exacerbate the problem. Pretty much all FI motorcycles I've ridden have had sub-par fueling from the factory. It's either sheer laziness or trying to be well within emissions standards. At least Triumphs have Tuneboy as an option so you can directly remap the ECU. My Speed Triple was buttery smooth after an hour or so on a dyno getting the map sorted. It also got 5-10mpg more than stock.
I have the 2019 model and other than vibrating mirrors i cant fault it
Pretty sure you can remap with tune ecu which is a free software..just need to buy a 15 dollar cable
I'm glad it bought the SV650 and not one of them..
Nice weather up there in Nottingham. Amazing in fact for mid Jan lol
but did you read the description young man? ;-)
Nah, I leave them for the old men to read :-)
oi! lol
Got a Dorsoduro and although a nice bike don't even get me started on the fuel injection lol
Still prefer the draconian carb. Not sure i'll ever get used to fuel injection...
try the newer ones with standard cans on, think youll like the triumph system abit more then :)
It's that whine that Triumphs have. I couldn't live with it.
Bitch craft Nottingham :D
Great vid keep it up ^_^
hehe, good name!
Where's the moaning? Haha I think everyone would agree with you regarding the fuel injection, IMO there's nothing worse than dodgy fueling from the factory.
Also regarding the stock exhausts,there's a few dealers I've been to that do exactly that keep your stock can and stick it on ebay £90-100 a pop, then you don't realise until you come to sell the bike when the buyer asks for the stock exhaust.
My 06 Sprint ST had the same issue. That along with tall gearing....anything under 35 sucked.
LOL, well that cheered up my Monday morning, You're "ex-girlfriend" comment just about made me fall off my seat. To be honest I don't care if you are moaning and bitching, I just like seeing more content from Roadcraftnottingham. Good review and it would be fascinating to see you put together with manufacturers to discuss their approach to fuel injection and your own observations. Now that would be a great video :-) Keep it up Russ.
I'll see if I can get an appointment with Triumph and do an upload. :-)
You are spoilt buy the 1100 Pan Russ, I own an 1100 Pan and a new R1200GS water cooled, and whilst the GS is great for a fuel injected bike its not Pan smooth. Can't see that fuel injection, ride by wire, will ever be quite as good as a well balanced carb setup. If Honda started making the 1100 Pan exactly as it was again, with no silly changes, I bet their accounts would be very happy, they'd sell like hot cakes !
I'd buy one in a heartbeat. ☺
Ditto !
The 2012 model F800GS was shit too, you couldn't downshift without it stalling, i didn't dare go around roundabouts without it expecting to cut out and throw me off ( funny how fast this makes you fear the bike if it does it a few dozen times :) ). Powercommander fixed it :).
So i must agree with you Russ i would never keep a bike that was that shit, and the investment into a power commander has its downsides too. Expensive to buy but also doesn't play well with the self learning anti-temper muck in the ECU, had the bike go into limp home mode because of it a few times where it would just pore in fuel and run waaaaay to rich. Its sorted now but its the only thing i do not like.
Wouldn't a booster plug sort that fueling problem?
I tried a booster plug in a BMW GS with no noticeable improvement so assumed they didn't work.
@@RoadcraftNottingham did you start up and not touch a thing not even a small rev for 12 to 15 mins so ecu could make the changes ?
Haw about that fual injection!! :- ))) LOL. just got a 2007 speed triple 1050 before the brembo brakes model.. soft ride none ajustable shocks no storege space and will not sit at 60 70mph with out giving it jud jud jud jud jud..its like its got a stuter. Not a triumph fan any more my first and last! Back to kawasaki next bike. Also like your videos haw wachd alot iver the years..
Use TuneECU to fix the FI.
Good thing about the Triumphs is you can download free software (TuneECU) and remap it yourself, to how you want it…there's a bunch of 'pre-configured' maps out there in the forums etc that you can just install very easily, all you need is a PC and a cheap $10 OBDII USB cable.
I've remapped my Rocket III and my Daytona 650 with it, no need to have an expensive Power Commander :)
They've locked out the newer 13/14 ECU's (e.g. Street Triple). Wonder if a new 1050 is now locked?
buy a EFI honda scooter smoothest thing on the planet
How's this for manufacturer's fucking about. . I've got the 2008 r6 and I do love lt and it is a high rev bike but in the lower rpm even 7k it's a complete dog thanks to two catalic converters in two of the downpipes and a great bike silencer box with another converter.