Yeah. Unfortunatelly most of European countries do not recognize the minority languages but instead they call them dialects and they are vanishing now 😢
Well they sort of have to, because of the European Charter for Regional and Minority Languages, but at least here in the Netherlands, the government does its utmost to shake off any responsibility.
@@schneeweichenmunster8416 Yeah, it all boils down to the classic debate of what is and what isn't a language. To me, it's fairly simple: if people feel their way of speaking is a separate language, then who are we to criticise that? I have a decent command of German, but I can't understand Bavarian. So I'm all for recognition of Bavarian as a separate language.
@@Wearldsproake As a German you can understand Bavarian pretty well. So I think it is a dialect. But I read the Low Saxon has much more distance to Standard-German than any other variety in Germany. Saterfrisian has a similar distance to German but Nothern Frisian is even more far away from Standard-German. And Low Saxon has it roots in Old Saxon and this is North-Sea-Germanic, while Bavarian goes Back Like any other German dialect to Old German. So Bavarian is definitely a dialect. Even its native speakers say this. But Low Saxon has nothing in common with German. This are languages with different ancestors. This is why Bavarian is not protected by this Charta. But when people feel linguistically independent, politics should accept that. But anyway, Low Saxon is linguistical a so called Abstand-Language and also the social-linguistic aspects support that.
Of course the same is with Low Saxon and Dutch. Low Saxon goes back to Old Saxon and, together with Frisian, to North Sea Germanic (English is just North Sea Germanic because it based on Old Saxon and Anglian varieties). Dutch comes from Old Franconian and this from Rhein-Weser-Germanic. Unvorstellbar Dutch is very influenced by Frisian through Old Frisian so over the years the distance of Frisian/Saxon and Dutch became a bit smaller. But Esstphalian dialects of Low Saxon are very conservative and even more far away from Dutch than Westfrisian. This is why Eastphalian knows palatalisation of velar cononants which is also in Frisian. Example: Westphalian: Wy seggtet. Jy. seggtet Se. seggtet Eastphalian: Wy. sejjet Jy sejjet Se sejjet There is also a Video by the channel "I Love Languages" where I speak Westphalian Low Saxon. Please watch it an tell me how do you find my dialect of Low Saxon. (-: I think it must be the Last Video of the channel, it will be published this week - so check it out.
I think they'll be surprised you even know about it. In my experience, people in Northern Germany are reluctant to speak Low Saxon to strangers. That's how big the stigma on the language is.
What we need is for the term Low Saxon to be officially used for the language in Germany & to foster stronger Saxon cross border relations between the Netherlands & Germany. Low Saxon people from both countries need to be more united for the language to have a real place in Europe's future. We share ancestors, symbols (saxon steed), architecture, Hanseatic history, language and more, I think that deserves to be recognised.
I agree. But how do you propose to mobilise all those people, who've been told time and again that this language and culture doesn't matter and it's better to assimilate.
@@Wearldsproake Its an interesting region to say the least just have a look at the old Lotheringa region . its a mix of germanic nordic , frankish celtic , gaul langauages and cultures . just folow the river rhine from switserland to the nehterlands and you find its a mix of people languages and cultures. .
Just curious why you choose to speak with an Irish accent? Genuinely just curious; I'm a Dutchman from the Heuvelrug/Veluwe area who leans towards a Dutch-American accent so I don't mean to be a hypocrite. But we have (Anglo-)Saxon kin in England with different accents. It would probably make more sense for us to adopt those.
I'm not sure if you could compare their (socio)linguistic circumstances. Neapolitan has a clear centre (Naples) and more or less similar dialects. The Low Saxon speaker area is divided by a border and two dachsprachen: Dutch in the Netherlands and German in Germany. As pointed out in the video, Low Saxon is more easily found in NL than in DE, and is considered more similar to Dutch than German. Grammatical features vary greatly, not to mention pronunciation and morphological inflections. You could argue that, like Neapolitan, Low Saxon is the unofficial B-side of the national language(s). But then you'd have do disregard a whole history and culture.
Moin, Martin! Hest du en Born för de Tal vun 70 percent inlehnen Wöör in de skandinavischen Spraken? Betekent düt 70 percent vun den Woortschatt oder de Frekvens vun de praten Wöör in en alldaagschen Snack?
Lmao the fact that it's 'recognized' is essentially meaningless. It's almost completely absent from education and serious media. You can't use it for communication with the government (in the netherlands at least, except for 1 municipality). Bilingual signs are a rarity. People generally don't even know that it's recognized.
Wow, so constructive and insightful, thank you! Recognition means that that will change, because now there are funds to make all that happen. By the way, it's survived all these years without recognition. So this is just extra bagage.
@@Wearldsproake I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not. Many of the major stumbling blocks come from the fact that the national government is unwilling to implement even the smallest amount of legislation to make something happen out of fear for a legislative burden and extra costs, whilst the regional governements don't have the authority to implement reforms in many relevant domains because of the unitary structure of the Dutch state. No national funds are spent on the recognition and preservation of low saxon. I don't know if you read the 2022 report by the council of europe. The commision of experts highly insisted that the dutch government immediately implement the teaching Low saxon in all layers of education, along with other reforms like having its speakers be represesented by a national commision. They never got a response of course, whilst the government very much obliged to respond to the chapters concerning Frisian, yiddish and romani (yiddish and romani are still very much underprotected aswell). Everything summed together indicates to me a fundamental unwillingness to engage with the community of speakers and makes me highly suspect the possibility that change will not happen before it's effectively too late. Just my two cents.
@@unhatchedegg5463 I am aware of the report. Luckily, languages don't need official recognition to exist and survive (and thrive!). Makes it easier, sure, but it has survived until now. There are still some 4 - 5 million speakers of Low Saxon. They won't be all dead tomorrow.
@@Wearldsproake Looking at the numbers and given the rate of intergenerational transmission, I expect a huge demographic collapse to occur within the next 50 years or so. If people really want to preserve the language, radical change may be needed. A general sentiment of dissatisfaction has been rising for the last couple of years and it has recently also manifested in the domain of regional languages and their recognition. There is a no need for empty words on paper like it has been for a long time but real application of recognition in practice.
@@unhatchedegg5463 y lyket der u årdig in verdeped to hebben. Eyne van de wysen wårup as wy lüde inspireret üm meyr med neadersassisk an to vatten is et selv oaveral to gebruken. Wat do y der in uw dagelikse leaven med?
The 1st & 2nd Germanic Americans that are still pure Germanic still have faint Germanic accent when than speak American English is not real that big of a shock even if they never been to Germany or the Netherlands.
Yeah. Unfortunatelly most of European countries do not recognize the minority languages but instead they call them dialects and they are vanishing now 😢
Well they sort of have to, because of the European Charter for Regional and Minority Languages, but at least here in the Netherlands, the government does its utmost to shake off any responsibility.
@@Wearldsproake And it is not allowed to recognize dialects in this Charta, which is why Bavarian or ony other dialects are not but Low Saxon is.
@@schneeweichenmunster8416 Yeah, it all boils down to the classic debate of what is and what isn't a language. To me, it's fairly simple: if people feel their way of speaking is a separate language, then who are we to criticise that? I have a decent command of German, but I can't understand Bavarian. So I'm all for recognition of Bavarian as a separate language.
@@Wearldsproake As a German you can understand Bavarian pretty well. So I think it is a dialect. But I read the Low Saxon has much more distance to Standard-German than any other variety in Germany. Saterfrisian has a similar distance to German but Nothern Frisian is even more far away from Standard-German. And Low Saxon has it roots in Old Saxon and this is North-Sea-Germanic, while Bavarian goes Back Like any other German dialect to Old German. So Bavarian is definitely a dialect. Even its native speakers say this. But Low Saxon has nothing in common with German. This are languages with different ancestors. This is why Bavarian is not protected by this Charta. But when people feel linguistically independent, politics should accept that. But anyway, Low Saxon is linguistical a so called Abstand-Language and also the social-linguistic aspects support that.
Of course the same is with Low Saxon and Dutch. Low Saxon goes back to Old Saxon and, together with Frisian, to North Sea Germanic (English is just North Sea Germanic because it based on Old Saxon and Anglian varieties). Dutch comes from Old Franconian and this from Rhein-Weser-Germanic. Unvorstellbar Dutch is very influenced by Frisian through Old Frisian so over the years the distance of Frisian/Saxon and Dutch became a bit smaller. But Esstphalian dialects of Low Saxon are very conservative and even more far away from Dutch than Westfrisian. This is why Eastphalian knows palatalisation of velar cononants which is also in Frisian. Example: Westphalian: Wy seggtet.
Jy. seggtet
Se. seggtet
Eastphalian: Wy. sejjet
Jy sejjet
Se sejjet
There is also a Video by the channel "I Love Languages" where I speak Westphalian Low Saxon. Please watch it an tell me how do you find my dialect of Low Saxon. (-: I think it must be the Last Video of the channel, it will be published this week - so check it out.
I'm half Swedish and a lot of our loanwords come from Low German, not German. Therefore it's super interesting to learn more about this language.
I’m Russian Mennonite, my family immigrated to Canada in the 1870’s. We culturally speak low German or plautdietsch.
Yes! It didn't fit in the one minute, but it's a wholly different story!
My family also came to Canada around that time, but they migrated to Mexico in the 1920's. Eventually, my parents came to Canada, where I was born.
I’m traveling to a small town in lower saxony after studying hochdeutsch for a while, but now I’m thinking I should have learned plattdeutsch 😂
I think they'll be surprised you even know about it. In my experience, people in Northern Germany are reluctant to speak Low Saxon to strangers. That's how big the stigma on the language is.
What we need is for the term Low Saxon to be officially used for the language in Germany & to foster stronger Saxon cross border relations between the Netherlands & Germany. Low Saxon people from both countries need to be more united for the language to have a real place in Europe's future. We share ancestors, symbols (saxon steed), architecture, Hanseatic history, language and more, I think that deserves to be recognised.
I agree. But how do you propose to mobilise all those people, who've been told time and again that this language and culture doesn't matter and it's better to assimilate.
You are right that if it's not in english then it is unknown; I had no idea that this many people still spoke low german!
The irony is that if I make a video in Low Saxon, I won't get as many views as an English video, thereby effectively ostracising Low Saxon.
😮Dankeschön
In Paraguay there is also sum ppl
Excellent! Am teaching a Grimm fairytale tomorrow originally written Low Saxon and will show this to them!
Nice, thank you for telling the world about Low Saxon!
Saxon is also the name of the original tribe that named them self after their tribal god saxnot .
And they spoke this language's predecessor
@@Wearldsproake Its an interesting region to say the least just have a look at the old Lotheringa region . its a mix of germanic nordic , frankish celtic , gaul langauages and cultures . just folow the river rhine from switserland to the nehterlands and you find its a mix of people languages and cultures. .
i think the god was named after the people, not the other way around
Just curious why you choose to speak with an Irish accent? Genuinely just curious; I'm a Dutchman from the Heuvelrug/Veluwe area who leans towards a Dutch-American accent so I don't mean to be a hypocrite. But we have (Anglo-)Saxon kin in England with different accents. It would probably make more sense for us to adopt those.
I lived there for a bit, and studied English. My pronunciation teacher loved the accent and told me to 'polish and cultivate' it.
very true brother, low saxon should be promoted in portuguese, to many know more about germanic culture in the world. hugs my friend Martin.
heu veur de nedersaks"n!
Joa
So is Plattsdeutsch or Low Germam/Low Saxon the Neapolitan of Germany?
I'm not sure if you could compare their (socio)linguistic circumstances. Neapolitan has a clear centre (Naples) and more or less similar dialects. The Low Saxon speaker area is divided by a border and two dachsprachen: Dutch in the Netherlands and German in Germany. As pointed out in the video, Low Saxon is more easily found in NL than in DE, and is considered more similar to Dutch than German. Grammatical features vary greatly, not to mention pronunciation and morphological inflections. You could argue that, like Neapolitan, Low Saxon is the unofficial B-side of the national language(s). But then you'd have do disregard a whole history and culture.
Waarom klink je Iers?
Is that an Irish accent? 🤔
Is it?
it's a saxon accent
De Nederduytsche spraeck
Moin, Martin! Hest du en Born för de Tal vun 70 percent inlehnen Wöör in de skandinavischen Spraken? Betekent düt 70 percent vun den Woortschatt oder de Frekvens vun de praten Wöör in en alldaagschen Snack?
Ik meyne van eyne Karl Wührer, mär de precyse brunne weat ik sou neet.
Lmao the fact that it's 'recognized' is essentially meaningless.
It's almost completely absent from education and serious media.
You can't use it for communication with the government (in the netherlands at least, except for 1 municipality).
Bilingual signs are a rarity.
People generally don't even know that it's recognized.
Wow, so constructive and insightful, thank you! Recognition means that that will change, because now there are funds to make all that happen.
By the way, it's survived all these years without recognition. So this is just extra bagage.
@@Wearldsproake I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not. Many of the major stumbling blocks come from the fact that the national government is unwilling to implement even the smallest amount of legislation to make something happen out of fear for a legislative burden and extra costs, whilst the regional governements don't have the authority to implement reforms in many relevant domains because of the unitary structure of the Dutch state. No national funds are spent on the recognition and preservation of low saxon. I don't know if you read the 2022 report by the council of europe. The commision of experts highly insisted that the dutch government immediately implement the teaching Low saxon in all layers of education, along with other reforms like having its speakers be represesented by a national commision. They never got a response of course, whilst the government very much obliged to respond to the chapters concerning Frisian, yiddish and romani (yiddish and romani are still very much underprotected aswell). Everything summed together indicates to me a fundamental unwillingness to engage with the community of speakers and makes me highly suspect the possibility that change will not happen before it's effectively too late. Just my two cents.
@@unhatchedegg5463 I am aware of the report. Luckily, languages don't need official recognition to exist and survive (and thrive!). Makes it easier, sure, but it has survived until now. There are still some 4 - 5 million speakers of Low Saxon. They won't be all dead tomorrow.
@@Wearldsproake Looking at the numbers and given the rate of intergenerational transmission, I expect a huge demographic collapse to occur within the next 50 years or so. If people really want to preserve the language, radical change may be needed. A general sentiment of dissatisfaction has been rising for the last couple of years and it has recently also manifested in the domain of regional languages and their recognition. There is a no need for empty words on paper like it has been for a long time but real application of recognition in practice.
@@unhatchedegg5463 y lyket der u årdig in verdeped to hebben. Eyne van de wysen wårup as wy lüde inspireret üm meyr med neadersassisk an to vatten is et selv oaveral to gebruken. Wat do y der in uw dagelikse leaven med?
They don't "call" it low german, that is the name of the language: Plattdütsch=flat german
Nope, not in the Netherlands.
The 1st & 2nd Germanic Americans that are still pure Germanic still have faint Germanic accent when than speak American English is not real that big of a shock even if they never been to Germany or the Netherlands.