No i don't agree, especially if you played no banlist cedh. It is way different than cedh. I think bans in cedh make a lot of sense, while they make less sense in edh, simply because of rule 0, or as my playgroup calls it, the " dont be a dick" rule.
I agree with separate ban lists for edh/cedh for the most part, the only problem is that some players aren’t quite at either level. And I think that’s a problem as well, you should be able to pimp out an edh deck for optimal power without it turning into a 4turn win, and play against others of a similar placement. Banning them entirely makes it impossible to play at an optimized level without having to take it seriously competitive, where a lot of strategies aren’t viable at all. Rule zero needed to be the focus here instead imo, how many players are striking up new games with new pods consistently enough and getting stomped by these cards? Are there that many players intentionally misrepresenting their decks? I’m confused why this has become such an issue. Not to mention the precedent it sets for other cards, I keep seeing smothering tithe and rhystic study be mentioned- I don’t want to play a format where all strong cards are cut, meanwhile leaving serious stax pieces and MLD because people can apparently police those?
Have you ever heard about Canadian highlander? In this format every deck has a few points and most overpowered cards needs that points to put in the deck. There you can’t put all power nine in your deck, you should count your points in powerful cards to not go beyond the line on points limit. So could we take this system and unban all cards? I think deck building would be much interesting with it!
I love a lot of what you're saying here, but would also implement "banned as commander". Nadu isn't a problem in the 99 because you exile him and it's over. It's crushing as commander tho.
My question has always been what does "casual" actually mean when it comes to this game, because it seems like people who want "casual" games want to play a 3 hour long group slug where everything is hyper balanced or players who "didnt get to play the game" because other players won in ways they disapprove of. I cant tell you how many times ive died to my own Mana Crypt, but because i got it out early somebody decides the game isnt fun anymore? Thats wild to me, considering ive won plenty of games without ever getting it on the field, or everyone else had theirs out and i still won regardless. A lot of times going too fast makes you an instant target so I dont see the point in being upset over it. Personally i dont think there should be any banned cards. These people dont like "Luck of the Draw" it seems and want everything to be predictable.
The simple fact is that the "it's a casual format" crowd had been the most toxic segment of the mtg playerbase for a long time who seem to like nothing more than trying to be the fun police for the entire game. The sooner we collectively ignore them, the better.
@@SlavicHavoc Exactly, when i started playing i just wanted to play the game. It didnt matter how fast my opponents were going i was having fun regardless. The idea that "my opponents are going too fast so im not having a good time" is ridiculous.
Luck of the draw is a part of magic but if you fill your deck with broken expensive cards that end the game on their own then it hurts the gameplay for casuals. If you want to play broken stuff that's fine there is a cEDH table for you to visit.
Short answer: No. Long answer: Separating cEDH from commander immediately undoes the pipeline the majority of people get into cEDH through. It makes it harder to get into the format as it's a different format entirely. Also, cEDH players literally already made their own format to curate their own banlist. It's called Conquest, and it's a failure of a format compared to cEDH. That is most likely what will happen again if you try to separate the format. And even if you do separate the format, you will shrink your prospective player base because not everyone will be on the same page. Some people will play this "new" cEDH, but most likely a majority of the community will continue to play actual cEDH. Also, a lot of the arguments for specific cards is... lacking we'll say. "There's no reason you shouldn't be playing Ghost Quarter or Field of Ruin in your decks". Yes, there is a reason. It's that too many colorless lands absolutely ruin your mulligans, especially since the format trends towards 3, 4, and 5 color decks. The more colors you play the more punishing multiple colorless lands become. Also Field of Ruin ramps your other 2 opponents for no downside. What is the purpose of saying "this card would be really fun in high power" when you're arguing for separating the format? High power just doesn't exist if you're trying to make a new competitive format. "What's the best thing you could get with (Tinker)"? Bolas's Citadel when your deck is properly built is like 95% to win the game, especially with Tinker in the format. Have you ever actually played with Tinker into Citadel? It's busted, and Tinker shouldn't ever be unbanned.
In this scenario that would only help the people who think that adding a card like mana crypt to a deck automatically make it cedh. I had the card in a lot of janky/clunky decks as part of a package that simply made them viable to play rather than being a meme idea. None of the decks I had mana crypt in were anywhere near cedh level.
I personally think no because there is a reason why the "c" in cEDH is always lower case because it is edh at heart, just taken to the extreme. Red is still decent just because underworld breach is so good and ragavan is good with tymna but I think no personally
A separate ban list would be nice and would stop a lot of crying in commander. Let there be a causal format to protect the causal, novice, and new players from "feels bad" cards, and just let competitive players have their own format. At the end of the day, we can all play by our own rules anyway.
The issue with "separate banlists" is that's not 1 format with different banlists. That's 2 different formats and if you make the split you would end up with casual "cEDH", competitive "cEDH", Competitive "Casual EDH" and Casual "Casual EDH". If you want it to split into 2 different formats just say that, but don't act like that's not what separate banlists is doing
Anyone can make any format. Wether itll get popularity and mainstream support is another. It seems like this want for a split is more so that boomers can keep and maintain the value of their old timey cards and have an elitist format like vintage or legacy while pulling the ladder up behind you. Like ya Vintage and Legacy are technically formats. But how many events are there? How many people have decks for those formats? How many LGS's hosts events for these formats? Etc.
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CEDH should have it's own rules committee.
And Advisory Group as well.
For me, cEDH should have no banlist while casual yes
No i don't agree, especially if you played no banlist cedh. It is way different than cedh. I think bans in cedh make a lot of sense, while they make less sense in edh, simply because of rule 0, or as my playgroup calls it, the " dont be a dick" rule.
this literally makes no sense hahaha
I agree with separate ban lists for edh/cedh for the most part, the only problem is that some players aren’t quite at either level. And I think that’s a problem as well, you should be able to pimp out an edh deck for optimal power without it turning into a 4turn win, and play against others of a similar placement. Banning them entirely makes it impossible to play at an optimized level without having to take it seriously competitive, where a lot of strategies aren’t viable at all.
Rule zero needed to be the focus here instead imo, how many players are striking up new games with new pods consistently enough and getting stomped by these cards? Are there that many players intentionally misrepresenting their decks? I’m confused why this has become such an issue.
Not to mention the precedent it sets for other cards, I keep seeing smothering tithe and rhystic study be mentioned- I don’t want to play a format where all strong cards are cut, meanwhile leaving serious stax pieces and MLD because people can apparently police those?
Have you ever heard about Canadian highlander? In this format every deck has a few points and most overpowered cards needs that points to put in the deck. There you can’t put all power nine in your deck, you should count your points in powerful cards to not go beyond the line on points limit. So could we take this system and unban all cards? I think deck building would be much interesting with it!
I love a lot of what you're saying here, but would also implement "banned as commander". Nadu isn't a problem in the 99 because you exile him and it's over. It's crushing as commander tho.
My question has always been what does "casual" actually mean when it comes to this game, because it seems like people who want "casual" games want to play a 3 hour long group slug where everything is hyper balanced or players who "didnt get to play the game" because other players won in ways they disapprove of. I cant tell you how many times ive died to my own Mana Crypt, but because i got it out early somebody decides the game isnt fun anymore? Thats wild to me, considering ive won plenty of games without ever getting it on the field, or everyone else had theirs out and i still won regardless. A lot of times going too fast makes you an instant target so I dont see the point in being upset over it. Personally i dont think there should be any banned cards. These people dont like "Luck of the Draw" it seems and want everything to be predictable.
The simple fact is that the "it's a casual format" crowd had been the most toxic segment of the mtg playerbase for a long time who seem to like nothing more than trying to be the fun police for the entire game. The sooner we collectively ignore them, the better.
@@SlavicHavoc Exactly, when i started playing i just wanted to play the game. It didnt matter how fast my opponents were going i was having fun regardless. The idea that "my opponents are going too fast so im not having a good time" is ridiculous.
have had it in a couple decks for about a year and never got it in my opening hand outside of ones I needed to mulligan🤣
@@nyaatama8529 Yep, ive had it in my opening hand and still mulligan because i didnt have any lands lol
Luck of the draw is a part of magic but if you fill your deck with broken expensive cards that end the game on their own then it hurts the gameplay for casuals. If you want to play broken stuff that's fine there is a cEDH table for you to visit.
Short answer: No.
Long answer: Separating cEDH from commander immediately undoes the pipeline the majority of people get into cEDH through. It makes it harder to get into the format as it's a different format entirely. Also, cEDH players literally already made their own format to curate their own banlist. It's called Conquest, and it's a failure of a format compared to cEDH. That is most likely what will happen again if you try to separate the format. And even if you do separate the format, you will shrink your prospective player base because not everyone will be on the same page. Some people will play this "new" cEDH, but most likely a majority of the community will continue to play actual cEDH.
Also, a lot of the arguments for specific cards is... lacking we'll say.
"There's no reason you shouldn't be playing Ghost Quarter or Field of Ruin in your decks". Yes, there is a reason. It's that too many colorless lands absolutely ruin your mulligans, especially since the format trends towards 3, 4, and 5 color decks. The more colors you play the more punishing multiple colorless lands become. Also Field of Ruin ramps your other 2 opponents for no downside.
What is the purpose of saying "this card would be really fun in high power" when you're arguing for separating the format? High power just doesn't exist if you're trying to make a new competitive format.
"What's the best thing you could get with (Tinker)"? Bolas's Citadel when your deck is properly built is like 95% to win the game, especially with Tinker in the format. Have you ever actually played with Tinker into Citadel? It's busted, and Tinker shouldn't ever be unbanned.
In this scenario that would only help the people who think that adding a card like mana crypt to a deck automatically make it cedh. I had the card in a lot of janky/clunky decks as part of a package that simply made them viable to play rather than being a meme idea. None of the decks I had mana crypt in were anywhere near cedh level.
I would love a seperate banlist so we can establish our foot in the format
I personally think no because there is a reason why the "c" in cEDH is always lower case because it is edh at heart, just taken to the extreme. Red is still decent just because underworld breach is so good and ragavan is good with tymna but I think no personally
It's super against the idea of cEDH, I just think more is going to get banned
@@elderdingushighlander I hope it doesn't because the format will just get worse and worse and I hate the idea of that
This ban IS the line in the sand!
WotC is taking over official edh tournaments. They use the RC ban list. There is no splitting off.
A separate ban list would be nice and would stop a lot of crying in commander. Let there be a causal format to protect the causal, novice, and new players from "feels bad" cards, and just let competitive players have their own format. At the end of the day, we can all play by our own rules anyway.
My playgroup has three categories, try hard, pre-con, and in between, and it works really great for us
The issue with "separate banlists" is that's not 1 format with different banlists. That's 2 different formats and if you make the split you would end up with casual "cEDH", competitive "cEDH", Competitive "Casual EDH" and Casual "Casual EDH". If you want it to split into 2 different formats just say that, but don't act like that's not what separate banlists is doing
Anyone can make any format. Wether itll get popularity and mainstream support is another.
It seems like this want for a split is more so that boomers can keep and maintain the value of their old timey cards and have an elitist format like vintage or legacy while pulling the ladder up behind you. Like ya Vintage and Legacy are technically formats. But how many events are there? How many people have decks for those formats? How many LGS's hosts events for these formats? Etc.
Cedh should not have a ban list. I made a group where cedh decks have no ban list it's dragonlords cedh
Yes and casual should have none since it's supposed to be casual and unsanctioned
ngl it's been hilarious seeing this community meltdown over these bans.
yes cEDH needs a separate ban list its a different format
ABSOLUTELY AGHHHH
yes
Yes
No
no