I have a 1911 barrel that's 6" with a Wilson/Nowlen ramp. I use it in my Kimber Target 38 Super. It was a drop-in fit with no issues. You're right, if you try and load the magazine with no modification at all you're be lucky to get 5 rounds in it. However, if you seat the bullet in to clear the front of the magazine. You can get an easy 7 without an issue. Of course, you have to pay attention to your loads now that you have set the bullet back. I also had some .311, 85 grain jacketed bullets that I ran through a Lee .308 bullet sizer die. Yeah, it seems that the Lee bullet sizer dies work with these small jacketed bullets too. They worked really well. I had weird issues with N340. It would not lock back the slide no matter the load and had a really soft recoil. It was like it wasn't igniting fully. Reloader 5 had a much sharper recoil and would lock the slide back. I did use the Lee FCD die and a combination of Lee and Redding dies.
I really like the fact that they make such barrels I think it is a fantastic idea to have such an easy drop in cartridge swap. I should have mentioned the fact that you can seat you bullets deeper to fit the magazine! Thank you for bringing up that excellent point! So long as you keep an eye on pressures you should be fine. I have heard of folks doing that and I plan on trying it myself I have heard mixed reviews whether or not that messes up the bullet's core. I have a .351 WSL and eventually will be doing a video on that I will be trying to size down jacketed bullets to .351". Hmm that is interesting with the N-340 powder I did not experience any issues with it and it locked our slide to the rear no problem. It did seem like the charge weights we used were rather low but the bullet diameter was also slightly oversize at .312" but it still seemed to work well. I really like the Lee FCD and Redding dies. If I could have found a set of Redding dies and a Lee FCD I would have used that exact combination for this video. Thank you for watching and for sharing your experience with the cartridge and firearms. It is always nice to hear what others have to say!
Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment! It really is a neat cartridge and the gun itself is just a joy to shoot! We are all about Handloading and providing good, accurate and reliable information to our viewers. We will keep the videos rolling as long as folks are watching! --Jeremiah
Can’t believe I found someone else who loads this cartridge! Thought I was the only one. I have one of the ceremonial chrome plated Zastava M57’s and after carefully filing down the front sight and drifting the rear sight a bit is actually shoots quite nicely. My pet load use Hornady’s 90 gr XTP bullet and Winchester 296 powder. I really wish there were other pistols chambered for this great little round. It’s like a Russian 357 Sig! Thanks for posting about this nearly forgotten round.
We are working hard to cover everything we can including the oddball cartridges and firearms. I am glad to hear that you enjoyed the video hopefully people still find it interesting in spite of it not being a popular cartridge. That sounds like a great load I was pleasantly surprised with the light recoil and the accuracy of the cartridge I find more than sufficient out to 100 yards. There aren't many I really had to scratch my head to think of all the ones chambered in this niffty little cartridge. Thank you for watching and for the feedback it is always nice to hear folks are liking and interested in the content we are producing!
@@davejones67 Sadly, the Norinco p762 isn’t generally available here in the U.S. we’re stuck using the ancient designs of the Zastava’s, TT’s or odd CZ52 if we want to shoot 7.62 Tokarev.
@@Lawraven and @Dave Jones We would love to get our hands on the Norinco Sig 226 copy! Those are super cool guns! Of course the Zastava's and CZ 52s are cool as well. Thank you both for sharing your experience with us it is always great to hear from the viewers!
Excellent video, insightful and engaging presentation with much great information. Very impressed that the quality of Handloader Magazine has carried over to this platform.
Thank you very much for watching it! We greatly appreciate it and are glad to hear that you enjoyed the presentation. We have really big shoes to fill but we are doing our best to keep these videos as unbiased and as informative as any article in the magazine. Hopefully they will continue to improve and become even more refined. Thank you for you support it is because of good folks like you that we can make these videos.
I have heard similar reports with some surplus ammunition, all the more reason to handload I say! We are glad you got some good ammo now and are able to shoot. Thanks for sharing that with us and thank you for watching!
They really are great guns and great shooters as well! I was quite impressed with this guy! It is a great way to repurpose old split neck .223 brass I have done the same thing as well over the years with good results! Thanks for watching and sharing your experience with everyone! --Jeremiah
Your caveat that a bottle neck pistol cartridge can be tedious is a generous statement! My experience has shown me that such small bottleneck cases will not tolerate any ham-handedness. Something I have in abundance. It's plain that I have never given these guns and cartridges the credit they deserve. It's good to have one's presumptions kicked around a bit. Another excellent and informative episode. Thanks
They certainly can be tricky, getting that headspace just right can also be challenging. We have done videos on the 5.7x28 and thankfully this cartridge seem to be a little bit easier. Once you get it figured out then it becomes a lot easier but you still have to be careful for sure. They are pretty neat ideas and they certainly seem to perform well ballistically. We do our very best to present the results exactly as we get get them and leave the decision making up to the viewer. I do my best to keep any of my personal opinions to myself! Hopefully that all comes across on camera well. I am very glad you enjoyed the video and found it informative we are all about sharing information and knowledge here at Handloader. Thank you for watching and for all of your support! --Jeremiah
I certainly have and I would love to do something on that the problem is finding good guns today is not easy especially if you are on a budget! If I ever come across one for a good price you can bet i'll pick it up and do a video on it though. Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
Brian Pearce just published an article on .357 Magnum lever actions and the impressive velocities you can get get with the longer barrel length. We do have a few lever actions on the to do list it is just a matter of time and availability. As always we welcome the suggestions and appreciate the feedback.
These days it seems like all ammunition can be expensive and hard to find. However I know that there was a lot of military surplus ammo imported and it is still floating around places if you know where to look. Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
do you know why Tokarev pistols tend to drag the firing pin down the primer during ejection??? I've had 4 different Tokarevs currently have an m57 they all do it. the ejected shell shouldn't go flying at ballistic speed 30 to 40 feet away. no one seems to notice that they're not supposed to do that. I can't find a mechanical reason for it. I wouldn't think they should do that anyhow.
When I say copy I mean of the original Tokarev TT-30 and TT-33 Russian designed pistols. I am not implying either are superior only that the Russian designed pistols were the originals and many other countries copied the Tokarev design. I agree the M57 is a great pistol. Thank you for watching and commenting!
Any one of the loads listed in this video would be good the two bullets that stood out the most to me were the Cast bullets from the Lee .311-93 mould and the 85 grain Sierra RN if you can find those. Thanks for watching and good shooting to you!
If I recall correctly the 93 grain Lee cast bullets were sized to .312" which is pretty much how they came out of the mould SPG lube was used on all of our cast bullets. Great question! Thank you for watching!
@@HandloaderTV Did you have any issues with the rounds chambering at that size? I have an military surplus M57 also and it has an almost new bore but when i sized to .311 they would hang up while chambering. Your looked like it was fine with the .312...
@@nebelwerfer199 So I did have a couple of hangups but only when I used the slide release if I pulled the slide to the rear then let it go it chambered the round just find and it would also extract the rounds just fine so I don't think the problem in my case was the bullets sizing but rather lack of lube and poor cleaning of the cosmoline off of the firearm, I cleaned the bore and most areas but I did miss a few near the rear of the slide. I also used the Lee 93 grain bullet for all of our plinking loads which as you could see when we shot steel it ran without a hitch. The only issue i had was the slide not going completely into battery and a light push always put it into battery. Which is why I did not mention it in the video. You can see this when I shoot both the Lee bullets and the Lyman bullets. Now that being said I have heard many reports and experienced this myself with certain brands of brass the neck is too thick and when you load an oversized bullet into the brass it fits too tight in the chamber and can cause issues. From the sounds of it that might be what you are experiencing. I would suggest taking a measurement of your fired cases and then your unfired cases or resized cases and see if the neck might be where you are getting hung up then see if seating your bullet makes that neck even thicker to the point where it might cause a malfunction. I also suggest slugging your bore to see what diameter it is and going up .001" for starters. Applying a firm crimp may also help if your issue is with the case necks being too thick. I hope this all makes sense and helps, let me know if you have any further questions! --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV Jeremiah what dies are you using for your TT? I found the Lee sizer is not quite up to specs for 7.62 Tokarev. I ended up getting an RCBS set. Thanks for your help and making great videos!
@@nebelwerfer199 We were using lee dies however I would have much preferred to use Redding as I too have found a lot of Lee dies to be out of spec and a bit clunky to use in most cases. However the Lee dies we used in this video did work rather well and seemed to size to spec or at the very least to the chamber our our gun. No problem, always happy to help, thank you for all the support and feedback! --Jeremiah
That is true you can use M57 magazines in all Tokarev pistols but you can only use the 9 round magazines in the M57. We probably should have added that little note when talking about the magazines but our focus was on the M57 and it was overlooked! Thank you for watching and for adding that little tidbit!
@@thehoneybadger8089 The M57 can only take the 9 round magazines the shorter 8 round magazines will not lock in place nor will they feed in the M57 we have in the video however other Tokarev pistols such as the TT-33 and Type 54 Chinese copy will accept M57 magazines.
I'm sure you get way too many suggestions. And I don't have one of these yet. But it seems to me that a gap in the public published information set is loads for Mark 6 weblies that have been converted to 45 auto. That seems like a topic that you could really develop.
Honestly we appreciate the suggestions it's nice to know what people want to see and it really helps us decide what videos to publish next! There is definitely a gap there I know we have covered it in back issues of the magazine but a video on the subject should make for an interesting video. I would love to do it sadly I do not have a Webly revolver in .455 Webly or .45 Auto. Hopefully one day or perhaps of I can talk one of the writers into loaning me one. I appreciate the suggestion though and your continued support and viewership it is greatly appreciated!
@@HandloaderTV thanks for the detailed reply. As I mentioned I'm in the same boat. I think of guns that would be satisfying to own and go up and value a run of the mill shooter grade shaved Webley in 455 is right at the top of the list. And I think it would honestly be a lot more convenient to use 45 ACP brass than 45 auto rim, or 455 Webley. I think whenever I eventually get one I will either buy or make a mold that has that distinctive egg-shaped projectile. That would both look right when shooting it and make the ammo easy to distinguish from full pressure 45 ACP visually. I probably powder coat them all a gray to make them look like aged lead. So it wouldn't be dealing with letting but the ammo would look sort of period correct.
No problem! Always happy to hear from viewers such as yourself! I completely understand that I have always wanted one myself and now that prices are skyrocketing for those things I really regret not getting one! But alas it seems such is the life of a gun nut. I really like the idea of one in .45 ACP as well I especially like the custom mould idea. Hopefully one day, I'll be able to do the same!
I was holding center of bullseye for all the targets, this helps show how much of a difference there is in point of impact between loads. Thanks for watching and good question!
We actually have a LabRadar Chronograph we used it in the Colt Delta Elite, in 10mm auto video if I remember correctly. However, I personally have found it to be a little less reliable and predictable compared to the Oehler Model 35P believe it or not. I have gotten numbers that seem off or had issues with it triggering with suppressors or failing to record shots on rare occasion. Out of all the videos and literally tens of thousands of rounds we put downrange I can count the number of errors on my two hands. I really wish I could say the same about the LabRadar. Not to say that it's a bad chronograph. But I prefer the Oehler, it's the only Chronograph with a proof channel which tells us if there was an error in it's reading of the velocity. Perhaps this would make a good video subject in the near future! Thanks for watching and if you have any suggestions to try and make the LabRadar more reliable I would love to hear them!
The left to right is pretty good but the gun does seem to hit a little high on the target but we are more focused on group sizes to find the most accurate load. A 6 o'clock hold at the bottom of the target should produce nice impacts in the center of the target at 15 yards though. I am not sure if that was what they intended or not but that is how this particular gun shot. Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
I have a 1911 barrel that's 6" with a Wilson/Nowlen ramp. I use it in my Kimber Target 38 Super. It was a drop-in fit with no issues. You're right, if you try and load the magazine with no modification at all you're be lucky to get 5 rounds in it. However, if you seat the bullet in to clear the front of the magazine. You can get an easy 7 without an issue. Of course, you have to pay attention to your loads now that you have set the bullet back. I also had some .311, 85 grain jacketed bullets that I ran through a Lee .308 bullet sizer die. Yeah, it seems that the Lee bullet sizer dies work with these small jacketed bullets too. They worked really well. I had weird issues with N340. It would not lock back the slide no matter the load and had a really soft recoil. It was like it wasn't igniting fully. Reloader 5 had a much sharper recoil and would lock the slide back. I did use the Lee FCD die and a combination of Lee and Redding dies.
I really like the fact that they make such barrels I think it is a fantastic idea to have such an easy drop in cartridge swap. I should have mentioned the fact that you can seat you bullets deeper to fit the magazine! Thank you for bringing up that excellent point! So long as you keep an eye on pressures you should be fine.
I have heard of folks doing that and I plan on trying it myself I have heard mixed reviews whether or not that messes up the bullet's core. I have a .351 WSL and eventually will be doing a video on that I will be trying to size down jacketed bullets to .351". Hmm that is interesting with the N-340 powder I did not experience any issues with it and it locked our slide to the rear no problem. It did seem like the charge weights we used were rather low but the bullet diameter was also slightly oversize at .312" but it still seemed to work well. I really like the Lee FCD and Redding dies. If I could have found a set of Redding dies and a Lee FCD I would have used that exact combination for this video. Thank you for watching and for sharing your experience with the cartridge and firearms. It is always nice to hear what others have to say!
Thank you for the video, 7.62x25 is great round and the hand-loading an excellent idea when ammo is scarce. Keep up the video production.
Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment! It really is a neat cartridge and the gun itself is just a joy to shoot! We are all about Handloading and providing good, accurate and reliable information to our viewers. We will keep the videos rolling as long as folks are watching! --Jeremiah
Can’t believe I found someone else who loads this cartridge! Thought I was the only one. I have one of the ceremonial chrome plated Zastava M57’s and after carefully filing down the front sight and drifting the rear sight a bit is actually shoots quite nicely. My pet load use Hornady’s 90 gr XTP bullet and Winchester 296 powder. I really wish there were other pistols chambered for this great little round. It’s like a Russian 357 Sig! Thanks for posting about this nearly forgotten round.
We are working hard to cover everything we can including the oddball cartridges and firearms. I am glad to hear that you enjoyed the video hopefully people still find it interesting in spite of it not being a popular cartridge. That sounds like a great load I was pleasantly surprised with the light recoil and the accuracy of the cartridge I find more than sufficient out to 100 yards. There aren't many I really had to scratch my head to think of all the ones chambered in this niffty little cartridge. Thank you for watching and for the feedback it is always nice to hear folks are liking and interested in the content we are producing!
I load for it. My son has a Tokarev and I have a Norinco SIG 226 copy in this round. Shoots well and great muzzle flash!
@@davejones67 Sadly, the Norinco p762 isn’t generally available here in the U.S. we’re stuck using the ancient designs of the Zastava’s, TT’s or odd CZ52 if we want to shoot 7.62 Tokarev.
@@Lawraven and @Dave Jones We would love to get our hands on the Norinco Sig 226 copy! Those are super cool guns! Of course the Zastava's and CZ 52s are cool as well. Thank you both for sharing your experience with us it is always great to hear from the viewers!
Excellent video, insightful and engaging presentation with much great information. Very impressed that the quality of Handloader Magazine has carried over to this platform.
Thank you very much for watching it! We greatly appreciate it and are glad to hear that you enjoyed the presentation. We have really big shoes to fill but we are doing our best to keep these videos as unbiased and as informative as any article in the magazine. Hopefully they will continue to improve and become even more refined. Thank you for you support it is because of good folks like you that we can make these videos.
All my surplus ammo had a high incidence of cracked necks. That is before firing! I now have PPU that looks good. Be Well, RZ.
I have heard similar reports with some surplus ammunition, all the more reason to handload I say! We are glad you got some good ammo now and are able to shoot. Thanks for sharing that with us and thank you for watching!
I love my m57. I make my brass by cutting down.223 rem brass to 1” long then run through the sizer die then Ream the neck to 311” and trim to length.
They really are great guns and great shooters as well! I was quite impressed with this guy! It is a great way to repurpose old split neck .223 brass I have done the same thing as well over the years with good results! Thanks for watching and sharing your experience with everyone! --Jeremiah
Your caveat that a bottle neck pistol cartridge can be tedious is a generous statement! My experience has shown me that such small bottleneck cases will not tolerate any ham-handedness. Something I have in abundance.
It's plain that I have never given these guns and cartridges the credit they deserve. It's good to have one's presumptions kicked around a bit.
Another excellent and informative episode. Thanks
They certainly can be tricky, getting that headspace just right can also be challenging. We have done videos on the 5.7x28 and thankfully this cartridge seem to be a little bit easier. Once you get it figured out then it becomes a lot easier but you still have to be careful for sure.
They are pretty neat ideas and they certainly seem to perform well ballistically. We do our very best to present the results exactly as we get get them and leave the decision making up to the viewer. I do my best to keep any of my personal opinions to myself! Hopefully that all comes across on camera well.
I am very glad you enjoyed the video and found it informative we are all about sharing information and knowledge here at Handloader. Thank you for watching and for all of your support! --Jeremiah
Have thought about doing a video on 30 Luger (7.65x21) or 30 Mauser (7.63x25)?
I certainly have and I would love to do something on that the problem is finding good guns today is not easy especially if you are on a budget! If I ever come across one for a good price you can bet i'll pick it up and do a video on it though. Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
Nice video bro I like zastava m57 sarbian
Thank you very much for the feedback and thank you for watching! They do make nice firearms for sure!
You guys should do a video of loads calibrated for a 1873 lever action with a ladder sight. Like the Uberti 1873 in 357 mag
Brian Pearce just published an article on .357 Magnum lever actions and the impressive velocities you can get get with the longer barrel length. We do have a few lever actions on the to do list it is just a matter of time and availability. As always we welcome the suggestions and appreciate the feedback.
ive never had issues finding ammo for 7.62x25
These days it seems like all ammunition can be expensive and hard to find. However I know that there was a lot of military surplus ammo imported and it is still floating around places if you know where to look. Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
do you know why Tokarev pistols tend to drag the firing pin down the primer during ejection??? I've had 4 different Tokarevs currently have an m57 they all do it. the ejected shell shouldn't go flying at ballistic speed 30 to 40 feet away. no one seems to notice that they're not supposed to do that. I can't find a mechanical reason for it. I wouldn't think they should do that anyhow.
Great Video, 😁👍☕
Thank you very much, thanks for taking the time to watch and comment! --Jeremiah
It's an improvement, not a copy. Russian/Chinese/etc are junk, the M57 is a stellar combat pistol.
When I say copy I mean of the original Tokarev TT-30 and TT-33 Russian designed pistols. I am not implying either are superior only that the Russian designed pistols were the originals and many other countries copied the Tokarev design. I agree the M57 is a great pistol. Thank you for watching and commenting!
can you tell me the bullet you reccommand
Any one of the loads listed in this video would be good the two bullets that stood out the most to me were the Cast bullets from the Lee .311-93 mould and the 85 grain Sierra RN if you can find those. Thanks for watching and good shooting to you!
What were the Lee 93 grain heads sized to?
If I recall correctly the 93 grain Lee cast bullets were sized to .312" which is pretty much how they came out of the mould SPG lube was used on all of our cast bullets. Great question! Thank you for watching!
@@HandloaderTV Did you have any issues with the rounds chambering at that size? I have an military surplus M57 also and it has an almost new bore but when i sized to .311 they would hang up while chambering. Your looked like it was fine with the .312...
@@nebelwerfer199 So I did have a couple of hangups but only when I used the slide release if I pulled the slide to the rear then let it go it chambered the round just find and it would also extract the rounds just fine so I don't think the problem in my case was the bullets sizing but rather lack of lube and poor cleaning of the cosmoline off of the firearm, I cleaned the bore and most areas but I did miss a few near the rear of the slide. I also used the Lee 93 grain bullet for all of our plinking loads which as you could see when we shot steel it ran without a hitch. The only issue i had was the slide not going completely into battery and a light push always put it into battery. Which is why I did not mention it in the video. You can see this when I shoot both the Lee bullets and the Lyman bullets.
Now that being said I have heard many reports and experienced this myself with certain brands of brass the neck is too thick and when you load an oversized bullet into the brass it fits too tight in the chamber and can cause issues. From the sounds of it that might be what you are experiencing. I would suggest taking a measurement of your fired cases and then your unfired cases or resized cases and see if the neck might be where you are getting hung up then see if seating your bullet makes that neck even thicker to the point where it might cause a malfunction. I also suggest slugging your bore to see what diameter it is and going up .001" for starters. Applying a firm crimp may also help if your issue is with the case necks being too thick.
I hope this all makes sense and helps, let me know if you have any further questions! --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV Jeremiah what dies are you using for your TT? I found the Lee sizer is not quite up to specs for 7.62 Tokarev. I ended up getting an RCBS set. Thanks for your help and making great videos!
@@nebelwerfer199 We were using lee dies however I would have much preferred to use Redding as I too have found a lot of Lee dies to be out of spec and a bit clunky to use in most cases. However the Lee dies we used in this video did work rather well and seemed to size to spec or at the very least to the chamber our our gun. No problem, always happy to help, thank you for all the support and feedback! --Jeremiah
Sweet chz. ...
M57 magazines can be used in all Tokarevs.
That is true you can use M57 magazines in all Tokarev pistols but you can only use the 9 round magazines in the M57. We probably should have added that little note when talking about the magazines but our focus was on the M57 and it was overlooked! Thank you for watching and for adding that little tidbit!
@@HandloaderTV Huh?🤔
@@thehoneybadger8089 The M57 can only take the 9 round magazines the shorter 8 round magazines will not lock in place nor will they feed in the M57 we have in the video however other Tokarev pistols such as the TT-33 and Type 54 Chinese copy will accept M57 magazines.
I'm sure you get way too many suggestions. And I don't have one of these yet. But it seems to me that a gap in the public published information set is loads for Mark 6 weblies that have been converted to 45 auto. That seems like a topic that you could really develop.
Honestly we appreciate the suggestions it's nice to know what people want to see and it really helps us decide what videos to publish next! There is definitely a gap there I know we have covered it in back issues of the magazine but a video on the subject should make for an interesting video. I would love to do it sadly I do not have a Webly revolver in .455 Webly or .45 Auto. Hopefully one day or perhaps of I can talk one of the writers into loaning me one. I appreciate the suggestion though and your continued support and viewership it is greatly appreciated!
@@HandloaderTV thanks for the detailed reply. As I mentioned I'm in the same boat. I think of guns that would be satisfying to own and go up and value a run of the mill shooter grade shaved Webley in 455 is right at the top of the list. And I think it would honestly be a lot more convenient to use 45 ACP brass than 45 auto rim, or 455 Webley. I think whenever I eventually get one I will either buy or make a mold that has that distinctive egg-shaped projectile. That would both look right when shooting it and make the ammo easy to distinguish from full pressure 45 ACP visually. I probably powder coat them all a gray to make them look like aged lead. So it wouldn't be dealing with letting but the ammo would look sort of period correct.
No problem! Always happy to hear from viewers such as yourself! I completely understand that I have always wanted one myself and now that prices are skyrocketing for those things I really regret not getting one! But alas it seems such is the life of a gun nut. I really like the idea of one in .45 ACP as well I especially like the custom mould idea. Hopefully one day, I'll be able to do the same!
كيف الحال أمتلك توكاريف m57
رقم التسلسل E45 339 كم هيه سنه الصنع
WHAT IS YOUR POINT OF AIM ON THE TARGET...6 O'CLOCK OR CENTER OF BULLSEYE???
I was holding center of bullseye for all the targets, this helps show how much of a difference there is in point of impact between loads. Thanks for watching and good question!
Get a Lab Radar chrono....never worry about the light and shadows again.
We actually have a LabRadar Chronograph we used it in the Colt Delta Elite, in 10mm auto video if I remember correctly. However, I personally have found it to be a little less reliable and predictable compared to the Oehler Model 35P believe it or not. I have gotten numbers that seem off or had issues with it triggering with suppressors or failing to record shots on rare occasion. Out of all the videos and literally tens of thousands of rounds we put downrange I can count the number of errors on my two hands. I really wish I could say the same about the LabRadar. Not to say that it's a bad chronograph. But I prefer the Oehler, it's the only Chronograph with a proof channel which tells us if there was an error in it's reading of the velocity. Perhaps this would make a good video subject in the near future! Thanks for watching and if you have any suggestions to try and make the LabRadar more reliable I would love to hear them!
Пистолет пристрелен под яблочко, а целится видать в центр мишени.
The left to right is pretty good but the gun does seem to hit a little high on the target but we are more focused on group sizes to find the most accurate load. A 6 o'clock hold at the bottom of the target should produce nice impacts in the center of the target at 15 yards though. I am not sure if that was what they intended or not but that is how this particular gun shot. Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah