I think Sauron is just gaining control. That could be through subterfuge or subjugation. "Hey Saruman, let's chat through this crystal ball for a while. Sure, we can be partners." I guess I generally don't agree with the degree of Shelfside's theme criticism. It is true that both sides are basically identical mechanically. But it isn't hard to imagine what-if scenarios that cover any events that can happen in the game. For instance, he says it is strange to have troops of one side in a region with a fortress of the other. But that is just a siege. That's Helm's Deep. And we know it happening all over Middle Earth.
@@El_BanditoXExactly! The rings given as gifts turned the hearts of those that wore them, and so the human kings became the Nazgul, the dwarves were turned in their greed and then fell to the Balrog by mining too deep, and the elves didn't wear their rings.
Cool to see something that's not a rave review for this game. The artwork is definitely beautiful, but I was very confused with how much hype there is around it.
Between this or the WOTR card game i think ill go with this as a shorter WOTR mainly because i love 7 Wonders and the art looks incredible. This game may be light on theme but its enough for me and a good opener game for Board game nights.
7 Wonders Duel is one of the best 2-player-games ever. I don't see a need for this (un-)thematic variation of it when I also own War of the Ring 2nd edition. But I think this one will have a place in someones board game collection.
Not really arguing the theme as a fit, but it feels more of a fit than civ building. Other themes would have fit better. Agree that the mordor side should have had a strong control, but free peoples had more tricks.
Finally, a less-than-glowing review of the game! The combination of Lord of the Rings and 7 Wonders is definitely enough to excite many people-myself included. But I was expecting a heavier game, not a lighter one. I enjoyed 7 Wonders Duel as a light game, and adding the two expansions made it much closer to a medium-weight experience, far more interesting, though it almost doubled the playtime. As a result, I no longer play the base game on its own. If I were only playing occasionally, I might consider swapping the base game for the Lord of the Rings version. But personally, I don’t see a reason to own both, as I’m clearly not the target audience. I’ve seen some reviews suggest that 7WD LOTR is preferable because it avoids math, as if basic addition complicates the game. Personally, I don’t find simple one-digit calculations to be an issue-my 10-year-old sister handles them easily. So, I was a bit surprised to see this highlighted as a major advantage.
Yeaaaah as a Duel and Civ fan, I wasn't wild about the new theme (though the art is fire af) and I feel validated hearing exactly what I've been feeling about it. Likely wasn't getting it, but still, great review.
When I saw that the hobbits and nazghul moving were completely disconnected I felt that the game wouldnt be very thematic. It would be cool if the hobbits would have to keep running to stay out of the hands of the nazghul, while sauron has no way of waylaying the hobbits that have to run the longer distance. Same with the army map. Sauron could start with a huge army concentrated in mordor, so he would want to buy cards to spread troops, while the allies would start with a few troops spread out, and have to decide what positions to try and hold, and which ones to give up on. Same with the cards. Make some of them alligned with evil, some with good. The good player can only sell the evil cards for coin, and vice-versa. This forces you to chose between picking up a really good card for yourself, or selling a card thats really good for your opponent. As well make it more thematic.
After 4-5 games it was obvious the only victory that matters is control of the map. Ring quest is impossible if your opponent has is eyes open. Same for alliances. This is because you an just take cards away from your opponent even if you dont want them. Because of this the game quickly went from exciting to boring always do the same thing. Ring cards get changed for gold. Races are used for the bonuses. You then just race to get the most tiles for fortresses and occupy regions with soldiers. The 7 wonders duel as the same issue where you realize only points matter to win. Too linear. But pretty looking. PS: tiles are really easy to get because of fold. Unlike 7 wonders gold in this game does count for victory points. So you just get money fast to buy tiles and can mostly ignore skill cards.
This games feels streamlined to a fault, there's no functional difference between factions (Sauron having to start first is irrelevant and just a tacked-on rule), the Ring track is a total ruse as it's 2 independent tracks with no difference in length, bonuses or their distribution. The board is super bare-bones, which I think is OK since it shouldn't be the main focus, but I see people saying it makes it feel a war game and that's when I think they are really over-hyping it. Good game, fantastic gateway game, just not a best-of-all-time one even though it may reach those heights since it keeps climbing and climbing on BGG
Honestly I completely agree on every point you make but I'd say this game is a significantly better 6/10 than most other 6/10 games simply because it's half the price of most games that have come out in the same 6/10 range.
I like this game a lot but I have to admit the insert is pretty bad. There’s lid lift due to the shared board and rulebook, and 2/3 of the card wells are unnecessarily too shallow to fit sleeved cards (and I felt compelled to sleeve due to the cards feeling pretty flimsy). I had to just ditch the insert for both these reasons.
For me 7 wonders duel is incredibly overrated. I'm convinced it's one of those games that people branch out to after Catan because it's cheap and highly rated on BGG. Without the pantheon expansion the options are just not that numerous and those you can pick are not that exciting. Sometimes the entire game requires no strategy and only needs you to pick the card your opponent needs, denying them an advantage. It has the same problem Terraforming Mars has; almost every round has a somewhat obvious choice and any sort of big brain deviation from the obvious will more often than not be an objectively inferior play. And other times? It sometimes just results in a succession of unlucky drafts that just make you want to play something else. Can't say I'm too excited about a LOTR variant of that!
For me, cards/progress tokens/wonders balance is what ruined 7WD, but really like the rules overall. Hoping this one makes better in that department, 6:21 is quite worrying tho.
Conflict pawn in 7 wonders duel doesnt reset every round, like you said at 4:17
Yeah like what the heck, thats a HUGE rules oversight
oh gosh. Noooo! I'll pin your comment :) -Ashton
My canon for Sauron allying with the green cards is that he's instead capturing them.
I think Sauron is just gaining control. That could be through subterfuge or subjugation. "Hey Saruman, let's chat through this crystal ball for a while. Sure, we can be partners."
I guess I generally don't agree with the degree of Shelfside's theme criticism. It is true that both sides are basically identical mechanically. But it isn't hard to imagine what-if scenarios that cover any events that can happen in the game. For instance, he says it is strange to have troops of one side in a region with a fortress of the other. But that is just a siege. That's Helm's Deep. And we know it happening all over Middle Earth.
I say that he has corrupted them, kind of like how The King of Rohan was corrupted.
@@El_BanditoXExactly! The rings given as gifts turned the hearts of those that wore them, and so the human kings became the Nazgul, the dwarves were turned in their greed and then fell to the Balrog by mining too deep, and the elves didn't wear their rings.
@@SapSapient Yeah they often don't see the more abstract aspects of themes very well.
Cool to see something that's not a rave review for this game. The artwork is definitely beautiful, but I was very confused with how much hype there is around it.
It is only a 30min game so it seems to achieve quite a lot
Between this or the WOTR card game i think ill go with this as a shorter WOTR mainly because i love 7 Wonders and the art looks incredible. This game may be light on theme but its enough for me and a good opener game for Board game nights.
I can understand saying it Doenst match up thematically. But the actual gameplay is so fun and better than 7 wonders.
I love this game. For what it is, it does it very well.
7 Wonders Duel is one of the best 2-player-games ever. I don't see a need for this (un-)thematic variation of it when I also own War of the Ring 2nd edition. But I think this one will have a place in someones board game collection.
I also love Duel. This one is really interesting in that it gets rid of points. They're both really top notch.
Not really arguing the theme as a fit, but it feels more of a fit than civ building. Other themes would have fit better. Agree that the mordor side should have had a strong control, but free peoples had more tricks.
Finally, a less-than-glowing review of the game!
The combination of Lord of the Rings and 7 Wonders is definitely enough to excite many people-myself included. But I was expecting a heavier game, not a lighter one.
I enjoyed 7 Wonders Duel as a light game, and adding the two expansions made it much closer to a medium-weight experience, far more interesting, though it almost doubled the playtime. As a result, I no longer play the base game on its own.
If I were only playing occasionally, I might consider swapping the base game for the Lord of the Rings version. But personally, I don’t see a reason to own both, as I’m clearly not the target audience.
I’ve seen some reviews suggest that 7WD LOTR is preferable because it avoids math, as if basic addition complicates the game. Personally, I don’t find simple one-digit calculations to be an issue-my 10-year-old sister handles them easily. So, I was a bit surprised to see this highlighted as a major advantage.
Yeaaaah as a Duel and Civ fan, I wasn't wild about the new theme (though the art is fire af) and I feel validated hearing exactly what I've been feeling about it. Likely wasn't getting it, but still, great review.
When I saw that the hobbits and nazghul moving were completely disconnected I felt that the game wouldnt be very thematic. It would be cool if the hobbits would have to keep running to stay out of the hands of the nazghul, while sauron has no way of waylaying the hobbits that have to run the longer distance.
Same with the army map. Sauron could start with a huge army concentrated in mordor, so he would want to buy cards to spread troops, while the allies would start with a few troops spread out, and have to decide what positions to try and hold, and which ones to give up on.
Same with the cards. Make some of them alligned with evil, some with good. The good player can only sell the evil cards for coin, and vice-versa. This forces you to chose between picking up a really good card for yourself, or selling a card thats really good for your opponent. As well make it more thematic.
The intro was intense. I can feel the drama and tension building.
After 4-5 games it was obvious the only victory that matters is control of the map. Ring quest is impossible if your opponent has is eyes open. Same for alliances. This is because you an just take cards away from your opponent even if you dont want them.
Because of this the game quickly went from exciting to boring always do the same thing. Ring cards get changed for gold. Races are used for the bonuses. You then just race to get the most tiles for fortresses and occupy regions with soldiers.
The 7 wonders duel as the same issue where you realize only points matter to win.
Too linear. But pretty looking.
PS: tiles are really easy to get because of fold. Unlike 7 wonders gold in this game does count for victory points. So you just get money fast to buy tiles and can mostly ignore skill cards.
Loved the intro! 💍⚔🐴
Ouch- I give it an 8 or 9
Honestly felt the same about this game. I need my duelers to ne way more asymmetric to let me dive in
This games feels streamlined to a fault, there's no functional difference between factions (Sauron having to start first is irrelevant and just a tacked-on rule), the Ring track is a total ruse as it's 2 independent tracks with no difference in length, bonuses or their distribution. The board is super bare-bones, which I think is OK since it shouldn't be the main focus, but I see people saying it makes it feel a war game and that's when I think they are really over-hyping it. Good game, fantastic gateway game, just not a best-of-all-time one even though it may reach those heights since it keeps climbing and climbing on BGG
Honestly I completely agree on every point you make but I'd say this game is a significantly better 6/10 than most other 6/10 games simply because it's half the price of most games that have come out in the same 6/10 range.
You're simply describing a cheaper 6/10 game, no?
I like this game a lot but I have to admit the insert is pretty bad. There’s lid lift due to the shared board and rulebook, and 2/3 of the card wells are unnecessarily too shallow to fit sleeved cards (and I felt compelled to sleeve due to the cards feeling pretty flimsy). I had to just ditch the insert for both these reasons.
Wilhelm Scream!
For me 7 wonders duel is incredibly overrated. I'm convinced it's one of those games that people branch out to after Catan because it's cheap and highly rated on BGG. Without the pantheon expansion the options are just not that numerous and those you can pick are not that exciting. Sometimes the entire game requires no strategy and only needs you to pick the card your opponent needs, denying them an advantage. It has the same problem Terraforming Mars has; almost every round has a somewhat obvious choice and any sort of big brain deviation from the obvious will more often than not be an objectively inferior play. And other times? It sometimes just results in a succession of unlucky drafts that just make you want to play something else.
Can't say I'm too excited about a LOTR variant of that!
For me, cards/progress tokens/wonders balance is what ruined 7WD, but really like the rules overall. Hoping this one makes better in that department, 6:21 is quite worrying tho.