Christian never ceases to amaze me first he helps come up with the Rio Grande Plan and builds a coalition of people pushing for it. (Make sure you contact your representatives about getting it funded!!) Now he is working to improve the Ogden area. Such an amazing transit oriented and urban designer! Thank you Christian for your amazing videos and your ideas!!
I live in Idaho Falls. I realize that in order to get passenger rail back to Idaho Falls, Utah needs to be upgraded. So I’m happy to see all these citizen led efforts to revitalize passenger rail in the region. I’ve even thought of my own ideas for stations and rail connections in Idaho Falls myself using old historic ROW and future proofing to create more connections. Seeing videos like this give me the realization that it’s most definitely possible.
Being a native of Rexburg, I would love nothing more than to take a train from the Rio Grande Depot in Salt Lake City up to Eastern Idaho. You'll notice that I included the Yellowstone Branch in my service map - I really do believe there is a lot of unrealized potential there. But that is the subject of another video... And you are exactly right. Before trains can reach Idaho Falls from SLC, we need to address a few bottlenecks first. But there are plenty of signs that things could start happening soon!
@@CSLenhartThat’s great to hear. I did see your map showing West Yellowstone. I dream of a day when people from all over the country take a train to our national parks, especially Yellowstone and Grand Teton. I see Idaho Falls becoming a transfer point of all kinds of passengers, whether that be locals trying to go too and from Salt Lake, or tourists coming and going to get to the parks. I hope there is also a time when service comes back the goes from SLC and Butte MT. That would make a station in Idaho Falls even more important. There is the old Butte Main that crossed the Snake River right in Downtown and heads north past all the hotels along the falls. A passenger stop right in there would be perfect for tourists and locals. I’m looking forward to potential new video about the area as a whole including Saint George, Idaho Falls, and Yellowstone and all the potential there.
It seems to me, that UTA and Amtrak went their separate ways when Frontrunner started. Lack of infrastructure integration is clear, unlike Los Angeles area's Metrolink and Chicago's Metra working and sharing with Amtrak. Your professional input on "Rio Grande Planning", Ogden Union Station is outstanding. Specially on integrating green spaces, walkable, smarter, and healthier bike spaces is great. Finally, the fact that you include a better expansion, care, and interpretation of the Rail Preservation Field, shows class.
Gosh I cannot articulate how happy I'd be to see the excursion train loop come to fruition. It's a very pie in the sky dream, but I'd love so much to see it happen, and have 223 run on it.
That's the dream! I'm impressed by how many of the best railroad museums offer train rides - Sacramento, Baltimore, Strasburg, etc. Ogden can very easily join this list, and get people excited about historic trains again.
I’d personally rather see 223 in operation at the C&TS, and a standard gauge excursion loop in Ogden, because then it would allow some occasional interchange with Heber. And because 223 doesn’t have any historic connection to Utah aside from being donated by the Grande. I love seeing people really dream these things out, because they are such good ideas. And as someone who travels for work, and finds myself in all kinds of places around the world I see just how much we are hurting ourselves in the US with our lack of mass transit, I want things like this so much. I’d be up and down Ogden, Salt Lake City and to all other points with the quickness of if I could hop on rail connections.
I'm glad you like this vision! I threw a lot of ideas together hoping that some good ones might prompt future discussion. Ogden is making good progress on its plans, and I fully trust their progress of public engagement.
Make Ogden has some fantastic ideas for renewing downtown Ogden and we're already reaping some of the benefits! Thanks so much for the spotlight video, this is very exciting as an Ogdener.
Thank you for making this video. Union Station has allot of potential. I think it could become the focal point of a 15min city without having to change allot. I would also like to see a street car line from Ogden airport to Union station on existing ROW. In the future, that street car line could be extended down 24th street along much of the current OGX route.
That move to use the old D&RGW tracks to get back south from Ogden is brilliant. I had been wondering at a good way to do it since the FRA proposal came out, and that seems like a good idea. But, yes, preserving that corridor will be critical. The farms in that area are quickly turning into homes, and the rail trail is a much softer barrier than an actual railroad.
We are lucky that the tracks are still in place as much as they are. For years the old DRG&W mainline was a weedy tail track for storing freight cars. Now it's mostly overgrown at the end. We really need a statewide rail master plan to help preserve potentially useful corridors.
The historic train aspect really intrigues me especially....now hear me out that they make a casino like train that has a scenic route and takes you to Las Vegas.Consider it to be like a cruise on rails.So you have the option of just being on the train for the experience and then going to Vegas for vacation.
Thanks! With developers looking at ways to revitalize the area around Union Station, this is the ideal time to create a master plan based also on what works for trains.
I think Orlando Florida is suddenly realizing once you start building putting new track down the first few projects are near impossible but after that and the results be actually seen and a genuine excitement does build for what *WILL* be beyond what just "can be" although obviously of course since done before can therefore be done again. Definitely #world_class so interesting to see what comes of this absolutely.
I agree - once people have a train to ride and experience for themselves, the prospect of more trains sells itself. Everyone involved in the Rio Grande Plan is an ordinary citizen who is genuinely excited!
As a native Ogdenite and a fan of trains, I always found the Junction City's history with trains and its significance in connecting the east and west of the old US through tracks to be fascinating. I can only hope Christian's plan here comes to fruition and Ogden once again becomes an integral part in connecting the intermountain west to its neighbors in the region. Let's put the junction back in Junction City, even if it takes a generation.
I came up with essentially the same shorter flyover north of the Ogden station. I think that western tier of abandoned trackage (D&RGW?) will eventually prove indispensable. Best to be contemplating ways of avoiding conflicts by below-grade separations(?) and husbanding any part that's available now for future use. Of course the freight carriers will have no interest in that at all. Looks like it's getting pretty built up with residences. There's a point where it's no longer possible.
It is hard for many residents in Utah and Idaho to grasp the benefit of expanding Amtrak passenger service. I used to ride passenger rail from Boise to Twin Falls to visit grandparents as a kid in the 1960s. As an adult, I travelled up and down the East Coast for work numerous times on Amtrak's Acela from Boston to Washington DC. Amtrak was an absolute pleasure compared to flying or driving. No expensive ride share drives outside the city center to the airport. No long lines at security. No horrible coach seats on the plane. No excruciating baggage handling experience No expensive ride share rides at your destination to get to the city center from the airport. Compared to driving, no contending with nose-to-tail "trains" of semi trucks that blow your car around or to pass or negotiate. No expensive gas fill ups. When we lived in Tucson, AZ, we often took the overnight Amtrak to LA, sleeping in a sleeper cabin and waking up on arrival the next morning. What an awesome experience. Good luck on plans for Ogden. I hope your educational efforts, such as this video, are effective in informing Idaho and Utah residents on just what they have been missing out on and the benefits of Amtrak.
Thanks for sharing your experiences! I feel like public support is growing, and Olympic pressure is building to the point that something may actually happen within the next decade!
Great ideas! Hopefully UT will look seriously at these ideas. I moved here from the Sacramento area, which has a fabulous indoor train museum in Old Sacramento (along with a tourist train run similar to those described here). I see a Lot of similarity between Old Sac's blocks of historic bldgs operating as shops, bars and restaurants and 25th St and the Union Station bldg. I even see other historic bldgs surrounding 25th street that could be brought in to a larger tourism area if consumer demand justified it. Old Sacramento was developed in a joint venture with the CA State Park system and is a real money maker for the State as well as a point of pride for Sacramento. I wonder if trying to involve UT State Park system in this process would help make renovations and development more financially possible. An integrated historic (and transport functional!) Union Station/25th St project would certainly put Ogden on the Map as a historic "jewel" in the West.
I love Sacramento! In fact, laying out the station platforms on a skew was inspired by the new platforms in Sacramento. I'm excited to see all the developments build up around the station area!
The existing station tracks are obviously preferable. Rather than raising the platforms it would probably be good to lower the tracks. (the other is a pretty common ploy, costs a lot too) I expect you'll find people with a visceral feeling about moving the platforms away from the station, but of course they can be worn down. The solution if UP and their brethren at the FRA object is to take it by eminent domain.
Don't get too jealous just yet. There's lots of encouraging talk, but not much real investment yet in intercity rail service. Hopefully, we'll have something to show for our efforts by 2034!
Ogden loves its trains. If you want to give access to Moab, provide cars for people to load up their ATVs, UTVs, motorcycles, jeeps and bicycles. But you'd eat up a lot of time loading and unloading. It's a gimmick yet no other place on earth has what we have here and it's less exhausting to ride down to Moab on a train to ride the trails. And some of the Olympics will be here in Ogden as well, so make this happen!
This is an interesting idea. Passengers can drive their cars onto the Eurostar train that runs through the Eurotunnel from London to Paris. So it could be done here
I've seen that in the Nevada state rail plan there is a push to add a station in West Wendover. If the route is shifted to Ogden, would Wendover instead be served by throughway?
Part of the solution for the problems with the track layout approaching station should be for Amtrak (and all other railroads) to equip its long distance trains with locomotives or at least cab cars on both ends. The fact that this isn't standard for most passenger trains is insane, and it makes needing to reverse just not an issue anymore. This eliminates the need for the massive loop you described, because trains can then just use the Amtrak part of the flyover to go south
@thespanishinquisiton8306 Cab cars would also solve a similar issue in Cheyenne, Wyoming (on the same route). The only downside would be traveling backwards across Wyoming! Perhaps not so bad if done during the night, when people are sleeping.
I feel like it would be a bad idea to tear out the northern portion of the station tracks because that could be used to put indoor storage for the museum and to do maintenance. Plus you could do short caboose hop trains back and forth on the depot tracks Something I also thought of recently as well. While you suggested having a train ride going around part of Ogden using historic equipment. In theory it might be possible to just put a few upgrades into the older locomotives and then form an agreement with the UTA to occasionally run special excursions using the old locomotives
@CSLenhart with the Coyotes being moved to SLC, could there be possible lobbying for a development in the land between the current station and the rio grande depot?
I think that location would be ideal! Unfortunately, it is probably going to be difficult to ask the hockey team to patiently wait for the Rio Grande Plan to be complete before beginning work on their own Arena. But if we start work on both at the same time...🤔
Not that I want to be a nay sayer, but until Amtrak gets their program in order and ridership increases, it's unlikely it will ever become a viable source of cross-country transportation. As you said in your video, sharing tracks with freight trains will never work due to wear and tear on the tracks by the weights of the freight trains. In Europe, the tracks are separate which offers the comfort and reliability of dedicated tracks. If the United States wants a passenger rail service, then the funds to provide dedicated tracks needs to be done. There's so much waste in the military budget that some can be focused on such an endeavor.
Why would you want a landlocked the rail museum? Currently the Heber Valley is landlocked from the rest of the us rail system and trucking equipment from one place to the other would In my opinion cost more than sending it by rail.
The Heber Valley Railroad being landlocked would obviously make it more difficult to share equipment, but perhaps less than most people would think, since transporting old trains on modern mainlines is not simple either. I certainly hope any excursion route around Ogden doesn't become landlocked. My design shows a connection to the network, and could allow visiting locomotives to also run the excursion loop. I think that would be ideal.
Hi my name is Neil schwerdt in west valley city Utah, I think we need to start on it now!!!!!!!!. And get down town salt lake City train station needs to get started on too. Amtrak needs to go from salt lake City up north throw Ogden to Idaho and Evanston Wyoming east.😊
Here's the thing, there's just a tiny bit more people in the state of Utah, 3.34 million, than the combined populations of Edmonton and Calgary Alberta, ,
Christian never ceases to amaze me first he helps come up with the Rio Grande Plan and builds a coalition of people pushing for it. (Make sure you contact your representatives about getting it funded!!) Now he is working to improve the Ogden area. Such an amazing transit oriented and urban designer! Thank you Christian for your amazing videos and your ideas!!
Salt lake area is fascinating with all of its new train work. also really beautiful
I live in Idaho Falls. I realize that in order to get passenger rail back to Idaho Falls, Utah needs to be upgraded. So I’m happy to see all these citizen led efforts to revitalize passenger rail in the region. I’ve even thought of my own ideas for stations and rail connections in Idaho Falls myself using old historic ROW and future proofing to create more connections. Seeing videos like this give me the realization that it’s most definitely possible.
Being a native of Rexburg, I would love nothing more than to take a train from the Rio Grande Depot in Salt Lake City up to Eastern Idaho. You'll notice that I included the Yellowstone Branch in my service map - I really do believe there is a lot of unrealized potential there. But that is the subject of another video...
And you are exactly right. Before trains can reach Idaho Falls from SLC, we need to address a few bottlenecks first. But there are plenty of signs that things could start happening soon!
@@CSLenhartThat’s great to hear. I did see your map showing West Yellowstone. I dream of a day when people from all over the country take a train to our national parks, especially Yellowstone and Grand Teton. I see Idaho Falls becoming a transfer point of all kinds of passengers, whether that be locals trying to go too and from Salt Lake, or tourists coming and going to get to the parks. I hope there is also a time when service comes back the goes from SLC and Butte MT. That would make a station in Idaho Falls even more important. There is the old Butte Main that crossed the Snake River right in Downtown and heads north past all the hotels along the falls. A passenger stop right in there would be perfect for tourists and locals.
I’m looking forward to potential new video about the area as a whole including Saint George, Idaho Falls, and Yellowstone and all the potential there.
This would make visiting family for the holidays so exponentially easier
It seems to me, that UTA and Amtrak went their separate ways when Frontrunner started. Lack of infrastructure integration is clear, unlike Los Angeles area's Metrolink and Chicago's Metra working and sharing with Amtrak.
Your professional input on "Rio Grande Planning", Ogden Union Station is outstanding. Specially on integrating green spaces, walkable, smarter, and healthier bike spaces is great.
Finally, the fact that you include a better expansion, care, and interpretation of the Rail Preservation Field, shows class.
Gosh I cannot articulate how happy I'd be to see the excursion train loop come to fruition. It's a very pie in the sky dream, but I'd love so much to see it happen, and have 223 run on it.
That's the dream! I'm impressed by how many of the best railroad museums offer train rides - Sacramento, Baltimore, Strasburg, etc. Ogden can very easily join this list, and get people excited about historic trains again.
I’d personally rather see 223 in operation at the C&TS, and a standard gauge excursion loop in Ogden, because then it would allow some occasional interchange with Heber. And because 223 doesn’t have any historic connection to Utah aside from being donated by the Grande.
I love seeing people really dream these things out, because they are such good ideas. And as someone who travels for work, and finds myself in all kinds of places around the world I see just how much we are hurting ourselves in the US with our lack of mass transit, I want things like this so much.
I’d be up and down Ogden, Salt Lake City and to all other points with the quickness of if I could hop on rail connections.
Heeeyyy, Ogden represent! Glad to see stuff is happening up in our neck of the woods too.
You aren't called Junction City for nothing!
Warren Buffett Loves Railroads, and Union Pacific Fits the Bill
The oracle has blessed us with another grand vision of the future. This one should be called: The Ogden Engoodening.
I'm glad you like this vision! I threw a lot of ideas together hoping that some good ones might prompt future discussion. Ogden is making good progress on its plans, and I fully trust their progress of public engagement.
Make Ogden has some fantastic ideas for renewing downtown Ogden and we're already reaping some of the benefits! Thanks so much for the spotlight video, this is very exciting as an Ogdener.
The latest development plans are awesome! Ogden has so much potential, especially as a passenger rail hub!
Thank you for making this video. Union Station has allot of potential. I think it could become the focal point of a 15min city without having to change allot. I would also like to see a street car line from Ogden airport to Union station on existing ROW. In the future, that street car line could be extended down 24th street along much of the current OGX route.
@@UrbanPorcupine I'd love to ride that streetcar line!
That move to use the old D&RGW tracks to get back south from Ogden is brilliant. I had been wondering at a good way to do it since the FRA proposal came out, and that seems like a good idea. But, yes, preserving that corridor will be critical. The farms in that area are quickly turning into homes, and the rail trail is a much softer barrier than an actual railroad.
We are lucky that the tracks are still in place as much as they are. For years the old DRG&W mainline was a weedy tail track for storing freight cars. Now it's mostly overgrown at the end. We really need a statewide rail master plan to help preserve potentially useful corridors.
The historic train aspect really intrigues me especially....now hear me out that they make a casino like train that has a scenic route and takes you to Las Vegas.Consider it to be like a cruise on rails.So you have the option of just being on the train for the experience and then going to Vegas for vacation.
I hope somebody in Ogden will take heed of your vision!
A lot of it is probably going to be state and federal funding, but yes, hopefully Ogden takes notice.
Great vision. I hope this gets traction. Exciting time for passenger rail in the west. Good job, Christian.
Thanks! With developers looking at ways to revitalize the area around Union Station, this is the ideal time to create a master plan based also on what works for trains.
I think Orlando Florida is suddenly realizing once you start building putting new track down the first few projects are near impossible but after that and the results be actually seen and a genuine excitement does build for what *WILL* be beyond what just "can be" although obviously of course since done before can therefore be done again. Definitely #world_class so interesting to see what comes of this absolutely.
I agree - once people have a train to ride and experience for themselves, the prospect of more trains sells itself. Everyone involved in the Rio Grande Plan is an ordinary citizen who is genuinely excited!
As a native Ogdenite and a fan of trains, I always found the Junction City's history with trains and its significance in connecting the east and west of the old US through tracks to be fascinating. I can only hope Christian's plan here comes to fruition and Ogden once again becomes an integral part in connecting the intermountain west to its neighbors in the region. Let's put the junction back in Junction City, even if it takes a generation.
Train stations were made to be train stations, not museums. What a perfect entrance to Ogden’s 25th Street.
Well said!
Thanks for providing a great video.
Yes, let's do this. All aboard!
I came up with essentially the same shorter flyover north of the Ogden station. I think that western tier of abandoned trackage (D&RGW?) will eventually prove indispensable. Best to be contemplating ways of avoiding conflicts by below-grade separations(?) and husbanding any part that's available now for future use. Of course the freight carriers will have no interest in that at all. Looks like it's getting pretty built up with residences. There's a point where it's no longer possible.
Passenger trains have been backing into Chicago Union Station every single day for decades.
It is hard for many residents in Utah and Idaho to grasp the benefit of expanding Amtrak passenger service. I used to ride passenger rail from Boise to Twin Falls to visit grandparents as a kid in the 1960s. As an adult, I travelled up and down the East Coast for work numerous times on Amtrak's Acela from Boston to Washington DC. Amtrak was an absolute pleasure compared to flying or driving. No expensive ride share drives outside the city center to the airport. No long lines at security. No horrible coach seats on the plane. No excruciating baggage handling experience No expensive ride share rides at your destination to get to the city center from the airport. Compared to driving, no contending with nose-to-tail "trains" of semi trucks that blow your car around or to pass or negotiate. No expensive gas fill ups. When we lived in Tucson, AZ, we often took the overnight Amtrak to LA, sleeping in a sleeper cabin and waking up on arrival the next morning. What an awesome experience. Good luck on plans for Ogden. I hope your educational efforts, such as this video, are effective in informing Idaho and Utah residents on just what they have been missing out on and the benefits of Amtrak.
Thanks for sharing your experiences! I feel like public support is growing, and Olympic pressure is building to the point that something may actually happen within the next decade!
Eberything just sounds so much more charming
Great ideas! Hopefully UT will look seriously at these ideas. I moved here from the Sacramento area, which has a fabulous indoor train museum in Old Sacramento (along with a tourist train run similar to those described here). I see a Lot of similarity between Old Sac's blocks of historic bldgs operating as shops, bars and restaurants and 25th St and the Union Station bldg. I even see other historic bldgs surrounding 25th street that could be brought in to a larger tourism area if consumer demand justified it. Old Sacramento was developed in a joint venture with the CA State Park system and is a real money maker for the State as well as a point of pride for Sacramento. I wonder if trying to involve UT State Park system in this process would help make renovations and development more financially possible. An integrated historic (and transport functional!) Union Station/25th St project would certainly put Ogden on the Map as a historic "jewel" in the West.
I love Sacramento! In fact, laying out the station platforms on a skew was inspired by the new platforms in Sacramento. I'm excited to see all the developments build up around the station area!
The existing station tracks are obviously preferable. Rather than raising the platforms it would probably be good to lower the tracks. (the other is a pretty common ploy, costs a lot too) I expect you'll find people with a visceral feeling about moving the platforms away from the station, but of course they can be worn down. The solution if UP and their brethren at the FRA object is to take it by eminent domain.
I wish my state and national railway would be like yours. Actively trying to revitalise rail.
Don't get too jealous just yet. There's lots of encouraging talk, but not much real investment yet in intercity rail service. Hopefully, we'll have something to show for our efforts by 2034!
@CSLenhart previous Premier signed us up for a $9-11b tunnel project. (Independent analysis $25b)
Completed 2075
I just wish we could get high speed rail from SLC to Las Vegas 😭
Ogden loves its trains.
If you want to give access to Moab, provide cars for people to load up their ATVs, UTVs, motorcycles, jeeps and bicycles. But you'd eat up a lot of time loading and unloading.
It's a gimmick yet no other place on earth has what we have here and it's less exhausting to ride down to Moab on a train to ride the trails.
And some of the Olympics will be here in Ogden as well, so make this happen!
That sounds like a really cool idea, and it's not entirely unprecedented either... See Amtrak's Auto/Train service to Florida!
reintroduction of baggage cars once again
This is an interesting idea. Passengers can drive their cars onto the Eurostar train that runs through the Eurotunnel from London to Paris. So it could be done here
I've seen that in the Nevada state rail plan there is a push to add a station in West Wendover. If the route is shifted to Ogden, would Wendover instead be served by throughway?
I hope so! Wendover needs good service too!
Part of the solution for the problems with the track layout approaching station should be for Amtrak (and all other railroads) to equip its long distance trains with locomotives or at least cab cars on both ends. The fact that this isn't standard for most passenger trains is insane, and it makes needing to reverse just not an issue anymore. This eliminates the need for the massive loop you described, because trains can then just use the Amtrak part of the flyover to go south
@thespanishinquisiton8306 Cab cars would also solve a similar issue in Cheyenne, Wyoming (on the same route). The only downside would be traveling backwards across Wyoming! Perhaps not so bad if done during the night, when people are sleeping.
I feel like it would be a bad idea to tear out the northern portion of the station tracks because that could be used to put indoor storage for the museum and to do maintenance. Plus you could do short caboose hop trains back and forth on the depot tracks
Something I also thought of recently as well. While you suggested having a train ride going around part of Ogden using historic equipment. In theory it might be possible to just put a few upgrades into the older locomotives and then form an agreement with the UTA to occasionally run special excursions using the old locomotives
Good point - that land to the north would be ideal for the museums.
Calling the SLC "Amshack" station average is pretty generous, haha
@CSLenhart with the Coyotes being moved to SLC, could there be possible lobbying for a development in the land between the current station and the rio grande depot?
I think that location would be ideal!
Unfortunately, it is probably going to be difficult to ask the hockey team to patiently wait for the Rio Grande Plan to be complete before beginning work on their own Arena. But if we start work on both at the same time...🤔
Nice Video. So Lenhart Eh? Interesting. My birth name is Lenhart, now its Wolfstar-Lenhart.
Not that I want to be a nay sayer, but until Amtrak gets their program in order and ridership increases, it's unlikely it will ever become a viable source of cross-country transportation. As you said in your video, sharing tracks with freight trains will never work due to wear and tear on the tracks by the weights of the freight trains. In Europe, the tracks are separate which offers the comfort and reliability of dedicated tracks. If the United States wants a passenger rail service, then the funds to provide dedicated tracks needs to be done. There's so much waste in the military budget that some can be focused on such an endeavor.
Utah should just expand frontrunner south to vegas and north to boise in cooperation with those states. Show the feds how its done
I have a wild idea. A turn table.
Why would you want a landlocked the rail museum? Currently the Heber Valley is landlocked from the rest of the us rail system and trucking equipment from one place to the other would In my opinion cost more than sending it by rail.
The Heber Valley Railroad being landlocked would obviously make it more difficult to share equipment, but perhaps less than most people would think, since transporting old trains on modern mainlines is not simple either.
I certainly hope any excursion route around Ogden doesn't become landlocked. My design shows a connection to the network, and could allow visiting locomotives to also run the excursion loop. I think that would be ideal.
Hi my name is Neil schwerdt in west valley city Utah, I think we need to start on it now!!!!!!!!.
And get down town salt lake City train station needs to get started on too.
Amtrak needs to go from salt lake City up north throw Ogden to Idaho and Evanston Wyoming east.😊
Agreed! Have you contacted your state officials telling them you want the Rio Grande Plan started? We need to have more people raising their voices!
Here's the thing, there's just a tiny bit more people in the state of Utah, 3.34 million, than the combined populations of Edmonton and Calgary Alberta, ,