Harry Potter And The TRISTAN Chord [Music Theory]
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
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The Tristan Chords is a great-sounding chord that has been rarely used in modern music. Despite having been invented more than 150 years ago, this is a chord that can still sound new and fresh if you use it in your songs.
BTW, it's called "the Tristan chord" because it was famously used by Wagner in the opening of his opera "Tristan und Isolde".
It has also been used in the Harry Potter soundtrack (yes, in the video I will show you exactly where).
The problem with the Tristan chord is that it's usually explained in a very complex way, so songwriters simply 'give up' on it. So here's what we are going to do:
In the first part of the video below I show you a couple of famous examples (Harry Potter included) so you can hear it.
Then I show you the practical bits to use the chord in your song. Just the nuts and bolts, with the minimum amount of theory.
Then, in the second part of the video (which is completely optional and you don't need to watch it to use the chord) I am dwelling deeper into the theory of the chord.
So if you just want to have a new sound, watch the first half of the video above, and if you are curious about the theory watch all of it.
Deal?
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The video on the difference between half-diminished and m7b5: ua-cam.com/video/izBSQYV4J3g/v-deo.html
Like I said below: it is negative harmony, pure and simple.
”Ah, music. A magic beyond all we do here!” - Albus Dumbledore
Nice!
That's awesome, I love Harry Potter
this is fantastic! and YES pls consider making a video about the differences between half-diminishes and minor 7 flat5!
+1 for a video about that distinction, I thought they were interchangeable. wondering if the distinction is one of function rather than one of sound.
Yeah I want to see that video...
Yes! Please explain the distinction between the chords!
The only thing I can think is that m7b5 semantically seems like an alteration of a diatonic m7 like a II chord, whereas the half-dim is the name of the diatonic VII chord. But in my opinion this is confusing and pedantic, is not what most people would think when they hear/use the terms, and so I'm wondering if there is a better explanation...
@@5h5hz And then it has the relationship to a minor chord with a 6th on it's minor third, it can really feel like different sounds are implied depending on the progression and melody, but I personally write without really thinking very much in functional terms, I just listen for intervals, their color, stability and tension in relation to notes in and outside of current chord, without really thinking about it too much. I still learn these things though, 12tone goes into it a lot.
In my opinion, your second version is the correct interpretation of the Tristan Chord: the G sharp in the soprano is an ascending semitone appoggiatura onto a French augmented sixth in A minor and which is correctly spelt by Richard Wagner with a D sharp, an augmented sixth above the root, instead of an E flat, which is a minor seventh! It is important to emphasize that he subsequently employs the dissonance even more freely elsewhere in Tristan und Isolde and in all his later operas, as completely non-functional sonorities, completely free of any particular tonality and this was to inspire many subsequent composers like Anton Bruckner in his Ninth Symphony!
Published 90 minutes ago, and this is already one of my most disliked videos (in %). I'm wondering if people are disliking Wagner, or if they are disliking Harry Potter. Either way, they're wrong ;) Stay safe during the pandemic, and play some music!
They're probably thinking that Harry Potter is quite demonic by nature,
but could you seriously do at least 1 video of the Spanish & Egyptian scale respectively?
I'd like to do the videos - but there are SEVERAL scales called "Spanish" and "Egyptian". Which ones do you want? :)
As for HP demonic... wow... that's a new one.
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Oh cool! The Egyptian one which outlines a (sus4)9 chord that surprisingly sounds strangely unresolved 😬
And the Spnaish one with:-
1 b2 3 4 5 b6 b7
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar About HP, it was a shocker for me too🤥
As a jazz player I think of the Tristan chord as the II chord of V's tritone sub. Keeping it in Am, the tritone sub of V would be Bb7. In Bb7's home key of Ebm, the II chord that leads to it would be Fm7b5, which is enharmonic to the Tristan chord. Just like Bm7b5 would resolve to Bb7, so too does Fm7b5 resolve to E7.
You could also do this with Bb7's other subdominants: Abm7, F-7, Ab∆7. The borrowed subdominants sound dissonant, but it's just another tool in the toolbox.
And just as things had become more clearly murky.
That works too. I personally just called it a Fr +6 given the context and time period of the piece but there’s many ways as was shown you can approach it from
Hi, congratulations on your beautiful videos, I always follow you !!
I want to try to dare my interpretation:
The tristan chord (or the two chords in my opinion) are much simpler than we think:
Wagner begins the melody with the CONTRALTO:
Minor sixth that descends chromatically (a - f ----- e -) ..
If we imagine to harmonize with 4 voices simply with an A min second facing (6/4 with doubling of the bass) we have:
E --- C --- E (melody) ---- A
FIRST CHORD (chromatic movement of all parts):
E on = F
C down = B
E down = D #
A down = G #
G# minor with the 6th (7th diminish enarmonically)
ET VOILA !!!!
SECOND CHORD (chromatic movement only the SOPRANO)
---- = F
--- = B
--- = D #
G # up = A
B 7 / 5b = Dominant of E (Secondary dominant V of V)
or
F = French 6th (if we call enarmonically B whith Cb)
FINAL RESOLUTION
E 7 / 5b (--- 5) = Dominant of A (Cadence suspended)
TRANSPORT IN E min [FIRSTH CHORD and FINAL RESOLUTION] AND YOU WILL HAVE THE "MYSTERIOUS" BEGINNING OF THE THEME OF HARRY POTTER BY JOHN WILLIAMS ...
HELLO INTERNET !!!!
BEST WHISHES
I don't mind if other people do not like it: I think you did a superb job to explain in an amazing short time the Tristan chord and all the possible interpretations. Thumbs up!!
Please make a video on the difference between minor7/b5 and half diminished. I appreciate your way of explaining theory and it helps with explaining difficult concepts to my students.
Good timing! The Met is streaming Tristan und Isolde tonight!
Nice! Great initiative by the Met.
Thanks! The part @ 4:00 - where you note that Wagner writes it a certain way because he wants to indicate that it resolves in a certain direction - is one of those little tidbits that opens up someone's mind. Either people have to bury themselves in music theory - and hope their brains aren't overwhelmed - or they must dabble in it, hoping for just such sage & salient things as this. It's often the most passing comment that can revolutionize someone's understanding! I remember delving into electronics (in my late teens & early 20s). I kept running across the expression, "root mean square". No one on Earth could explain to me where this came from & why it was supposed to make sense (although I accepted that it was useful). I finally had to accidentally acquire a copy of the Ham Radio operator's Handbook (a thing in the style of - & larger than - most telephone books!) to run across the functional explanation of it. Not until then could I really fit it into my personal picture of things. Music notation has also seemed (to me) to be dense & obscure in many ways. Although I took piano lessons at around 11 to 12 years old, I never got comfortable with that. To this day, I can't really read (or write!) it. Understanding what people meant by it certainly helps decipher it more! I find it very sad that teaching & learning are not much more studied; and are not more of both a science and an art. Also: I choose Explanation #5 (my own) - Wagner made up his own chord here, because it both does what he wants it to do, and (and this is the single most important part of music theory): *_because it SOUNDS RIGHT!_* If it sounds right, it IS right! If it happens to be something that doesn't currently have a simple explanation within music theory, then the theory is incomplete. That's one lesson I actually *_have_* mastered! ;) Thanks. tavi.
The "half-diminished prince" made me laugh. Nice video!
What about this explanation: you can voice lead the same progression in different ways (i.e. resolve it, in different way), and the correct way to spell a chord is always "sharp if it's resolving up, flat if it's resolving down". The reason for this may not be apparent to guitar or piano players but is actually relevant for orchestral players (woodwind, strings and brass) as this is both easier to read and slightly alter the exact pitch of the performance in a way that is more accurate to they way the resolution works.
So "why was the chord spelled "wrong"" is not an interesting question at all... this is the right spelling if you want to orchestrate it with this voice leading.
Another side note that I'm getting from this channel is that chord progressions are basically just applied voice leading. You don't need to understand all the different kind of chords and progressions and you never will, you just need to understand how voice leading works, and you'll be able to make this all up on the go.
Agreed on both accounts
I think this is spot on really. I think he did it for voice leading purposes but I feel it’s a Fr +6 now with the G# as a passing note. It is leaned into heavily for a passing note, but not unheard of really either. Wagner knew how to tantalize the senses with his music.
Very good video explaining this highly influential chord...it may be somewhat telling that when Wagner makes the move to E7, it actually sounds a E7b5, and that flatted fifth (Bb), becomes a passing note to the B natural which completes the final E7 standard harmony...perhaps Wagner was just playing around with all the different 7b5 chords and just leaned in to the dissonance and made the resolutions only in passing, etc
In other words, after the opening A minor (and the 2 passing notes that foreshadow the upcoming bass motion of F and E), Wagner just sets up a sequence or pattern of a min7b5 chord-that becomes a dominant 7b5 chord by passing notes, and is then repeated or rather, sequenced a half step down
Yo lo veo de otro modo, más simple: El Sol# (G#) es una appoggiatura, la nota real del acorde es el La (A) por lo que es una dominante de la dominante con la 5a alterada B7b5 - E7b5 (E7) , cromático descendente (la progresión se repite en el compás 6) En música clásica la armonía es mucho más horizontal (contrapunto) y no tan vertical como en el jazz por ejemplo. No obstante, lo analices como lo analices, lo importante es el magistral efecto sonoro conseguido por Wagner en este pasaje. Bellísimo sin duda. Un saludo.
Most direct explanation of this chord I’ve seen.
my eyes first saw an inverted A flat minor 6 chord...... Thank you ever so much..... i have told several others about your teaching skills.....
Ciao, Tommaso. Very interesting. Thanks a lot. Yes, I would be courious about why m7b5 and half diminished are not the same. It was my understanding they are.
Diminished is always on the VII of the chord
Great vid..... I learned about the Tristan Chord 42 years ago, but never the details. I absolutely adored Tristan und Isolde, used to listen to it in a big old house in Massachusetts on long winter nights. But funny enough: first exposure was in England earlier with an ad for Hamlet cigars (yes) that used the music...
The Hamlet advert usually used Bach’s Air on a G string.
i do wanna know why those chords arent diminished!
Me too, please! Grazie mille
A diminished chord is constructed by using only minor third intervals.
A diminished chord is constructed by using only minor third intervals.
Not meaning to spam, just double posted just so you both get the notification (if you have them turned on).
The difference is their functions half diminished is the Vll of the major scale so it relsoves to the l chord. Minor 7b5 is used as tension and or color. They are both the same tones 1,b3,b5,b7. But used in different ways at different times. I hope this helps.
He said half diminished.... the means minor 7 (b7) like the minor7b5 the full diminished or dimbb7 is 1,b3,b5,bb7.
I appreciate this. I have been using m7b5 chords in place of diminished chords for a while now because I find they travel better. I especially like how it sounds in Lydian mode but I still had some trouble resolving it. I will certainly apply what you have shown here.
Brilliant. Yes, its useful.
I and 2500 other aucklanders go to a concert version
of Tristan 10 August in the town hall.... tomorrow.
THis has been a crash course..... and leads to further
study hopefully.
Ah, lifes too short
Thanks for extremely clear explanations and a great series. Also, forgive me if this has already been covered, but my theory is simply that the Tristan F, B, D#, G# is the negative harmony counterpart of E7: E, G#, D, A# using the axis between C/G and F#/C#.
David Plummer
To me correct answer from a practical point of view
Is number 4.
Our chord tonal system is made of thirds.
So it is just the harmonization of a tri-tone.
And connecting to answer number 2. Augumented 6 chord is just the tri-tone sub of a secondary dominant chord. And in this case on the french type.
Great lesson.
Absolutely loved the video, Tristan Und Isolde is one of my favourite operas, so this guitar-centric explanation was excellent!
From all the variants, the most plausible is that the chord is an altered dominant of the dominant: B - D# - F# - A (with the fifth diminished = F natural) and the G# is a harmonic delay for the 7th of the chord - A (dominant seventh). I did not watch yet your clip about altered dominant chords but it will be the next. A dominant chord can also be used in the second inversion (with the 5th in the bass resolving to the fundamental of the dominant - the E chord).
That's crazy deep. I love it as always! Thanks. Not many guitars teachers teaching this (that I'm aware of). I'm not sure if that all soaked in, but I still enjoy trying to learn it all.
You are freaking brilliant Tomasso, and I mean absolutely radiant! Haha 🧙🏼♂️
Wow, thank you!
This video is so intructive and intresting ! Keep going ! Don't care about dislikes for this one is really amazing, and i also wanna a video about the 7/b5 and half diminushed chords ! Thank you for yor job
Un sacco di "semantica" per spiegazioni che alla fine lasciano il tempo che trovano,i semidiminuiti li uso a bomba nel Jazz nel Blues ad anche in altre situazioni,chiamarli così o in un altro modo non cambia il prodotto,comunque il tuo canale è uno dei migliori 🤙
This is an Absolutly Great lesson.if Fm7b5 is the tritone sub of Bm7b5 .I think we are into the diminished harmony ( Fm7b5.G#m7b5,Bm7b5.Dm7b5 ),..whole/half from B or F
I agree with the explanation No. 4. Tristan chord is just II of II-V substition.
The normal II-V of A minor is Bm7-5 - E7.
And its substition is Fm7-5 - Bb7.
Wagner just introduced Fm7-5 instead of Bm7-5.
Thank you. I use that chord all the time, I had no idea there was a special name or story behind it.
The negative harmony counterpart of the tristan chord is the neapolitan 7, which also resolves to V7-I
why would the 'negitive harmony' root note be a P4th away, and not a Tritone away (or a chord built on the 2nd of the key)
................what?
It's a tritone substitution of #3. Fm7b5 is a suspension to F7b5. That's clearly what the melody is telling us. This F7b5 is a tritone substitution for B7. We also know this because the F7 resolves down to E7. That is the same chord B7 would resolve to. The movement of Fm7b5 to F7b5 comes from the diminished scale. I didn't realize Wagner was so hip.
Oo finally tristan chord All classical musicians think they say teach tristan and just telling stories and talking about feeling unnecessary of course important but why classical musicians don t teach like these.
0:34 If you don't see the g# as part of the chord but a suspension to the A it's simply a French sixth chord (f-a-b-d#) on F resolving ordinarily a half step down to the dominant E7
I learned that a sharp note on a chord means that it resolves up and flat, down, and many other things thanks :)
Thank you for another great video, Tommaso!
BTW: When I see a tension chord resolving down a half step, I think tritone substitution. So it is explanation 4 for me. :)
As a jazz player, I instantly heard a F half diminished colour. You could look at it that way: The Tristan chord is actually a related II of a subV of an A minor -> Fhalfdim (=rel.II) Bbflat (=subV) Amin (=I). But instead of going to subV, it resolves down a half step to a "regular" V (E7) of an A minor. The scales I would play are Ab melodic minor (on rel.II), F melodic minor (on V) and A melodic minor (on I).
I think it makes most sense as a tritonus substitution of II. Since we move to the 5th degree after the Tristan chord, (usully), this essentially makes the progression into an altered II, V, I with the Fsus(#2)#6b5 resolving to E7, resolvkng back go Am.
And yes, I wrote the Tristan chord as a sus#2 instead of minor since it is more or less just that. F minor contains Ab, but this chord has a G#, the sharped 2 of this chord
Most likely to Wagner, the Tristan chord is in fact F B D# A, that is the tritonic substition of the II7, i.e. B7b5 / F, which resolves on the V (E) forming an half-cadence.
The G# is just an appogiature of A, which is strongly suggested by the fact that: it happens i) in the soprano, within the main ASCENDING melody, and ii) is part of a chromaticism.
Chromaticisms + tritonic substitutions in cycle of fifths is Wagner's trademark.
Great video! Really enjoyed the insight. I hope there'll be more videos about Wagner and his music 😊
You explained this very clear and easy to understand! Great video!
Musical Edging (A Concept)
Thank you, great summary! I'd just like to mention one thing. I confess I like thinking about it as a phrygian cadence with that augmented 6th. However, you say that the problem with that is that Wagner writes G# instead of Ab. However, when you describe the Tristan chord as a V of V, you say that the G# is just a passing note leading to the actual A. So you could argue that the G# is just a passing note leading to A which then gives you the augmented 6th chord. The G# wouldn't be a problem at all then. The fun thing describing G# as a passing note is, that the quite long lasting Tristan chord acts like it is the actual chord, but it incorporates a suspended note revealed only quite late. (Just a side note: I really enjoy thinking about the Tristan chord and I also would like to know what it "actually is". However, Ludwig Wittgenstein once said that sometimes instead of insisting on trying to find an answer it might be better to kill the question, and the Tristan chord to me just seemes like one of these cases.)
I hear the G# as the chromatic embellishment of the A to which it rises - tardily, on the way to B via A# ... so I think of the chord as F-B-D#-A, whatever that is with the G# as the emotive delaying of the arrival at the top. The fact the G# is much longer than the A doesn't change that.
In the context of the Wagner piece through my tiny speakers, it sounded like a minor 6 chord to me. His spelling could be read as G#m/F. G#m6 could be seen as a tritone substitution for the iv chord (Dm).
Its almost like borrowing the II from the E Double Harmonic Major (E F G# B C D# E) sub for the E Phyrigian Dominant in A Harmonic minor heightening the tension on the E. Adding the D# creates the momentary major 7 resolving to the b7. Interesting, modal interchange in the time of Wagner.
Thank you for introducing me to this... I've always wondered about thar sound... But didn't know it has such a deep history ☺️ I would love to see a video on differences between half diminished n m7/b5
Fantastic lesson, thanks again! Although there are many awesome music learning channels, this one is my favorite. ^-^
Very good video!!!!!! Bravo
I would love for you to do a video on the difference between half diminished and m7b5.
I did: ua-cam.com/video/izBSQYV4J3g/v-deo.html :)
I think Wagner just took the A, C, and E of the tonic A minor chord and just picked four notes that resolve to it a half step away.
G# resolves to A, B resolves to C, and D# and F both resolve to E.
It's really just a leading tone diminished chord (which is already commonly used as a more tense alternative to the V chord), but with a D# instead of D natural (because the D# is a half step away from the E for more tension).
But the Wagner chord resolves to the V (E), not to the I (Am)
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar In that case, I guess it could be thought of as an E chord, but the E is replaced with the two chromatic neighboring tones (D# and F).
personally i think the tritone sub feels like the best explanation. AFAIK you can tritone sub IIs just as you do Vs.
Favorite video so far. Awesome!
Hi ! Thanks for this video ! Great to see some Wagner here :) I would slightly differ from your point of view. First, I'm surprised you said that it's not clear what a french +6 chord is. It's actually a very established harmonic practice for a V of V that a lot of theory books talk about. Then it seems to me that you might have mixed up the explanations 2 and 3. The V of V perspective make the more sense because it is in that case that Wagner is using an actual french +6 dominant chord where the G# is a chromatic neighbour note. A is the actual chord tone. Writing that chord on the b5 is the proper way to voice a french +6 because it resolves downward on the tonic of the V chord. The +6 name refers to the interval between the b5 and the 3rd. Using french +6 dominant chords as V of V was a common practice in the romantic era, a device Wagner knew very well. Explanation 4 seems the least probable given the harmonic practices of the era.
Furthermore, the most interesting thing about that chord is how Wagner's interpretation of it changes along the work. For example, in the Prelude, at the climax, the chord is heard as a regular II in Ebm, followed by a V, but once again it never resolves to an Eb minor chord. In that case he changed the spelling to fit the key of Ebm. And at the end of the opera, it is played in the key of B Major. It is heard with a B pedal note under it, and it still acts as a dominant chord, but this time it's a V of IVm and it resolves to a B Major chord.
Im surprised your analysis went unnoticed here, but you obviously know the piece and know enough theory to have a pretty good understanding of whats going on. I think I agree with you.. I think most people focus too much on what happens in the intro and not the other ways in which Wagner uses the chord throughout the opera. I think the idea here is that he is exploring all the different ways these particular notes can resolve. But since people focus on the intro, I would say that it is just a type of augmented 6th chord... as F# to D# is an augmented 6th interval... its just an altered pre-dominant, like any of the other augmented 6ths... would you agree?
@@drewabrams11 Yes, I agree. It's a french augmented sixth chord, used as a secondary dominant in the key of Am. As I said, you have to hear the G# of the chord as a chromatic appoggiatura of the A. Like you said, people only focus on the beginning, and forget how the ambiguity of the chord is used by Wagner throughout the opera. Speaking of a "Tristan chord" makes sense only within the work itself.
It's actually a pretty common practice for Wagner to play with the enharmonic ambiguity of some chords. The music theorist Ernst Kurth wrote about it in his analysis of Wagner's music. There's another famous example, from Die Walkure, the fate motif : ua-cam.com/video/eK2LxAJErr0/v-deo.html
the first chord is notated D-E#-A, which you can hear as a simple Dm chord.
It's G#m6 inverted with the 6th in the bass.
Great video! You’re a gifted teacher.
A junção das três coisas preferidas! I love It!
a great bluesy substitution on guitar for a -7b5 chord is G#-7b5/E playing the -7b5 on the 11th fret of the A string... ie. a -7b5 built on the third degree of a dom 7th chord... do it with all three chords of a 12 bar blues to sound a little flash.
You're talking about dom 9 chords here, aren't you?
Great story telling in this video, I really enjoyed it
Well, my theory is this: Wagner wrote the chord that way because it makes the most sense for the musicians to read.
The melody plays a G#, very logical since the next note is an A. Players are accustomed to seeing G# in the key of A minor.
He wrote the two bottom notes as F and B simply because those notes don't need any accidentals in the key. Cb would look like the note is outside the key.
That leaves the D# then, which I guess could just as well have been an Eb when you consider that it resolves to D.
Another explanation is that the chord is really an E#7b5, but the E# is written as F for the same reason as above, to make it easier to read for the lowest part.
A D# is used because it's much easier to read a perfect fourth and a major third than an augmented third and a diminished fourth.
Piazzolla uses this extensively in his cadences. Interesting.
Piazzolla has absolutely amazing chords and cadences.
If that accidentals were really written by Wagner - then I would consider the sharps to resolve up and built some kind of suspension that will resolve to E dom but he was breaking ground there and maybe that was his way to notate something that didn't have to resolve but built tension all the way until ... well it built some more. As an example that springs into mind is David Byrne's - Like Humans Do - where in the (after) chorus we have a half dim going down into another half dim and then to a (local) minor tonic (...Shaking ... breaking .... like humans do...). There might be some more extentions there. For me if used in pop whatever context it would be a secondary alt dominant to the V, still depending on context.
The accidentals were definitely written by Wagner.
Would love to see a lesson on half diminished/m7b5!
Here: ua-cam.com/video/zetUCdduqQY/v-deo.html :)
Good video (as always), but please pardon this digression . . .
So from this vid we start to gather the importance of context in the analysis of harmony. And we might also keep Hegel in mind: "When philosophy [or musical analysis] paints its grey in grey, one form of life [or music] has become old, and by means of grey [analysis] it cannot be rejuvenated, but only known."
So "Tristan and Isolde" is an example of the limitations of musical analysis.
Is an example of the limitation of the standard, commonly taught musical analysis, yes. Of musical analysis in general, I don't think so.
One of your best videos!
J. S. Bach also used misspellings. I enjoyed your video.
The first explanation, in case the Tristan chord resolves on the tonic chord of the minor key, sounds convincing. In that case, adding a 9th (G) to the chord would add a nice flavor. In case it resolves to the dominant chord of the key, I wouldn't call it a triton substitution, since the B altered chord which is being substituted should have a b13 (G) , but we have a G# instead. To me, the tension is given by the Tristan chord being a rootless B7/b9/13, which comes from the harmonisation of the diminished scale. My two cents. :-)
Nice video 👍
I was betting on number 4 from the beginning, it is the simplest explanation to me
In my humble opinion, this chord maybe comes from two scales that come from eastern music. hitzaz (e f g# a b c d) and hitzaskiar (e f g# a b c d#). This scales are very common in greek music but we don't use tristan chords. So maybe if you combine scale theory of east music and chord theory of European music you will figured out.
This is art. Love the channel, brotha
I think the "Tristan Chord" is within the A harmonic minor scale.
It is the VII grade of the scale with an augmented fifth and with the 7th in the bass, which is pretty common, and it even resolves down like it should!
G# : The root
D# : The augmented fifth
B : The third of the chord
F : The 7th of the chord in the bass
What do you think?
Based on your explanations at the end I feel it leans more with number 3. That was common around then during his lifetime. Seems the most plausible harmonic wise too than the augmented French 6th chord, but either way doing that chord at the beginning of a piece is unorthodox by standards then and even today really, I think.
Well, the explanations 2 and 3 are actually the same thing explained in two different ways. One could see the French augmented 6th as a tritone sub of V of V. Actually, Fr+6 chord (or the tritone sub) has exactly the same notes in it as the V7b5 of V - F7b5 and B7b5 chords have the same notes.
If you look at the voice leading, the G# could simply seen as an accented non-chord tone that resolves to A in the end of the measure. That's what it's doing in the context of that piece. And that's also an important point here - classical music isn't really that much based on vertical thinking (i.e., which collection of notes is played at a certain point). Instead, it's based more on horizontal thinking, i.e., how the different notes create independent melodic lines. This is also why the chord is spelled the way it is - the G# resolves up to A.
Basically, it's not an "independent chord". It's based on a really specific voice leading. And it actually behaves exactly like a Fr+6 chord would behave - you just have a G# on the downbeat that resolves to an A in the end of the measure. But other than that, it's basically a Fr+6 chord.
@@MaggaraMarine coming
Back to this after awhile…
Theory does allow many different interpretations sometimes depending upon the context of a given piece so what you say is a possibility but one has to look at what Wagner might have been going for too in his approach and what was usually the way he handled his compositions like that and using past examples of composers before him to help possibly.
I do believe after this time it is more ideally a Fr +6 with A as the root note and G# just serving as a passing tone. Voice leading wise and orchestration wise it makes sense from that standpoint and possibly what he would do when composing the piece. Of course there won’t be a universal consensus on this ever most likely because it can go different ways in theory but context wise and from the compositional techniques he utilized during that era and what past composers did before him. I like to be satisfied with that answer I think.
Very well done - thank you!
Except it can also be found in Beethoven's Piano Sonata No. 18, as well as in works by Mozart, Chopin, Liszt, G. Machaud, Gesualdo, and many other composers. No Wagner didn't invent this chord at all, and never claimed he did. Not sure when it started to be called the Tristan chord.
True! I was aware of some of the examples you list (If you can direct me on what piece by Machaud I'd be grateful).
I don't remember saying that Wagner invented it, and if in the video I did (or gave the wrong impression) that was unintentional.
You deserve more views!
great video 💡
I'd love a video about the reason why m7/b5 is not the same as half-diminished
Very interesting!
Would you analyse the music of Ichika Nito?
My take is this: Wagner was of course thinking both harmonically and melodically (probably wrote the melody first). A minor melodic scale rising has both F# and G#. The ii chord is in that case a B minor or B minor 7 (B, D, F#, A). He substituted a B major 6 (B, D#, F#, G#) and that was musically too consonant a way to get to the dominant chord, so he dropped the fifth, then inverted to the second inversion. Feasible?
Will you please do an analysis of the deceptive cadences in Tristan or Wagner's music in general? Thank you!
I think just by looking at the music it's fairly obvious why he wrote it the way he did. He wants a chromatic Oboe line so he writes that. And then he writes the chords under it, and spells the Tristan chord the correct way given that there's already a G#. If he used an Eb, he'd have an augmented third and a diminished fourth and and augmented third and diminished fourth is much harder to read than a fourth and a major third.
My guess: just a result of chromatic lines. And for me (but probably just because of how we learned theory) "doppeldominante mit vermimderter Quinte im Bass" (meaning V to the V with diminished 5 as bass note) Very German explanation, though the chord doesn't sound to german.
Love your videos, by the way. Nerd UA-cam at its best.
Wasn't this chord used way before Wagner and was called "half diminished". So, in Am key you'd have B D F A, which resolves nicely to the dominant E7. Mozart used it, Haydn used it, Beethoven used it. It's not really a crazy chord. You can hear it for example in Mozart - Symphony 40 right in the start.
It's not a half diminished.
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar why not? Because it's function is different or because its spelt differently?
Both :) Also it's not diatonic to Am, so even if we assume it's a half diminished chord (against spelling and resolution), one has to wonder why we have the half diminished of F# major (Eb minor) in the key of Am.
Amazing Video!! Love it...! thank you so much...! I really do want to know why the half diminished chord is not the same with m7/b5 chord...!!
Wagner’s masterpiece should not be compared with Harry Potter, but I get why you compared them.
I think the Tristan chord was music finally understanding that the dissonance was every bit as important, if not more, than the consonance.
Am to Dm to tristan to E7 to D/Bb to Am/e to Am gotta nice sound to it.
You spell it "G#" because it is an appoggiatura that leads to "A". In what Wagner wrote he resolves "G#" to "A" while the other instruments remain still.
The "A" is way shorter but that is in part due to classical tradition and the objective Wagner had in mind creating tension and an ambiguous harmonic landscape.
Could you resolves a Tristan chord to an Altered Dominant (namely Hendrix) chord and make it sound good while keeping high tension? Maybe add in a Neapolitan chord to make an interesting progression?
Great Video! Trank you 🤗
My first thought was its the tritone sub of II, I'd never considered doing that before, I'll have to try it out
Is Herbology study, studying the music of Herb Alpert? Be well, professori.
HA! Didn't see this coming! Well spotted :)
you should do a mystic chord breakdown someday. i find it really weird to pull off on guitar as it uses all 6 notes and a thumb over 6th string to properly voice
My musical theory is nothing compared to yours, lol, but maybe here, going a simpler route could help? What's your opinion on this view?: Being in the key of Am, D# and G# would just be the Double Harmonic Minor (Hungarian minor). Thus, the second chord (B) is already simply B, D#, F . Now, interchanging between natural minor, harmonic m and double harmonic m is nothing out of the ordinary, and an added 7th is quite basic. So there, he stepped into double harm for a quick while to borrow a chord. Admittedly, that wouldn't explain the F being root, but heck, maybe it just sounded better, the notes are there and would explain the chord in a basic way.
Cheers and congrats. New viewer here, going thorough your stuff.
Excellent video!
5. It is a misspelling of #Vm7b5 that only works with only 12 tones in the circular temperament (E#=F but only because a 12 tone circular temperament tempers out the 648:625 third tone between them)
It's an idea. But why a #V would resolve down to V?
Perhaps a bVI then ? Could work
See, that's exactly the mystery. It's spelled wrong for a bVI. And it also resolves in a strange way.
MusicTheoryForGuitar That way the composer only has to cancel sharps from or add flats to the outer notes to spell the resolution properly, not to mention that it’s strange to see #V at all in a presumably minor key with only 12 tones in the circular temperament anyway.
You have probably answered this dozens of times before, but I'm wondering what your motivation for using the / sign as a separator between a chord and its alterations is? Given that it's the same symbol used to indicate a bass note that isn't the root of the chord, I find it rather confusing to see it used in a different way. Also, no current notation program allows this (except Guitar Pro, but that program is a whole different discussion/trainwreck when it comes to wrongly used music theory and lets you write whatever you want as a chord name) - I tried it in Sibelius, Dorico, Finale and MuseScore as I was curious as to how they would react so it. However, given that you obviously know your theory very well, I'm thinking you must have a well thought out reason to use that exact symbol instead of just writing it out in the normal way, like Dm7b5 for example - or in parenthesis, like Dm7(b5). Did you learn this somewhere or was it something you came up with on your own? Either way, I'm curious to know the logical reasoning behind it. It might have advantages (that outweigh the obvious disadvantage of being the same symbol used for a different bass note) that I and others are not yet aware of.
Do you think Wagner was doing this complex thinking when he wrote the piece... or he was looking for something that gave him the tension and that chord did so. Not really a big fan of Wagner, but...