I love that there are avatar of god's in bg3. It's like in Hindu religion where gods would take avatar in ancient times for very crucial conditions. Lord Krishna and Ram are some few examples of it
I would like to thank BG3 for helping this video making it to my feed! I don't play Baldur's Gate(yet, anyways), so this was exactly what I was looking for. 😂❤
Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous did the divine intervention concept quite well. Despite the overwhelming threat to Golarion from the planes of evil the other gods are unwilling to intervene fully for fear of escalation. There's a real sense of mutually assured destruction that pervades that entire title- and the feeling that the Golarionites are some tiny nation caught between NATO and the Soviets, each side fighting the other by proxy- and the blood of Golarionites.
There is a good reason for this. On Golarian, unlike on Toril, gods do not have avatars, just think of Deskari, who is technically a demigod, who physically shows up on Golarian, so there is even a greater prohibition regarding the manifestation of avatars there than there is in the D&D universe.
@@spellandshield No doubt. It really does feel like the forces of evil are hoodwinking the forces of good by threatening all-out war if some hypothetical red line is crossed- while simultaneously crossing all the red lines themselves! Which again reinforces the NATO vs Soviets proxy war concept.
I love that you made a video on this. My outlook on this is that the gods probably will and must intervene in order to promote their own portfolio. Tyr for example must always promote justice, but he doesn't always have to do so personally, he can have his followers start paladin orders and monasteries to promote the ideas of justice and teach the population about doing what needs to be done. In most mundane cases, divine intervention may not even be neccessary for his followers to make reality work in accordance with the principles of justice. I really like to bring up justice, because, since Justice is a portfolio, that means that it is not the same thing as Tyr, and in fact it could in theory be taken away from him and come into the possession of someone else with a different outlook on justice. Furthermore, because Justice as a portfolio is a fully independent reality from Tyr, that means that Justice is an aspect of Reality within the Forgotten Realms, and as such, one can adhere to the principles of Justice without actually having to worshiip Tyr. This would explain atheist Paladins. A Paladin sworn to uphold Justice could gain his divine power from the Portfolio of Justice itself. It is debatable if Tyr could permit or decline the flow of divine power from that portfolio to said atheist paladin, but given that the portfolio of Justice is in his possession, I would say that he would be the one to grant the divine powers to the atheist paladin in this case. Now this leads to another question: When is Tyr justified in denying the divine powers that flow from the porfolio of Justice? The answer seems simple: he is right to deny these powers when they would cause or promote injsutice and fordbidden to deny them if they would be in line with Justice. The Goddess Mystra once banned the use of magic for the followers of Tempus, because there was a conflict between her and the BattleGod, but AO intervened and forced Mystra to allow spellcasting on both sides. Gods are subject to their own portfolios, and to me it seems that portfolios are actually above the gods themselves and are subject to AO. In fact the portoflios remind me of the Titles of Noble Lords from Medieval Europe, but transferred into the realm of ideas. In a sense gods, just like devil princes, are prisoners of their own domain.
I actually prefer Greyhawk's gods; they are more distant but somehow more powerful and even frightening. I am trying to think of a deity as frightening as Nerull in the Forgotten Realms and the only one that is vaguely similar is Myrkul and he does not hold a candle to Nerull. Pelor is also much cooler than Lathander. I sort of just miss Greyhawk...but great video as always.
Thank you S & S for teaching me the difference between low magic & high magic, (the reference to Conan the Barbarian helped), & between chosen & avatars. On Larian's discord, some people were explaining what an avatar is to me, & I still was confused. Some of them think that Raphael is an avatar of Asmodeus, which I hope is not true. I hope that Raphael is just a cambion grabbing for power. However, I'm sure the 9 hells don't want people on Toril to become mindflayers because of the 9 hells' economy. It'd make sense for Asmodeus & others in the 9 hells to issue avatars, but if that's the case, why are the 9 hells not rescuing Mizora, since her job is to collect souls. (How did a cambion like Mizora get captured in the 1st place?) Your timing is perfect! I'm at the part in my fanfic where a cleric of Eilistraee is being possessed by a demon lord. I'm wondering if I should've Eilistraee save her cleric, or Shadowheart, except I don't think Shadowheart is powerful enough, & I doubt Shar would help, or Halsin, because Halsin is an Archdruid & Silvanus is a powerful deity, or I could've Volo call Elminster. (Especially since Volo in BG3, while in his goblin prison cell, writes a note to Elminster, but Tav can't give the letter back to Volo.) If I have Elminster's help, I could've Eliminster use Volo, which I don't think Elminster or Volo would want, or Elminster could show up & help, or Elminster could call Mystra to help. (I think Gale is still not on Mystra's "good" side, so I don't think Gale would be powerful enough to help.) I could've Lolth show up to save her former cleric because The Absolute is taking away Lolth's worshipers, so it'd benefit Lolth to rescue someone who is fighting against The Absolute. I'd love to read your thoughts on this since you know more about the Forgotten Realms than I do, but if you just read this, that'd still be cool! :)
I love the diversity of all the gods and it makes clerics a fun class to roleplay!
They have Lathadner, right?
I love that there are avatar of god's in bg3. It's like in Hindu religion where gods would take avatar in ancient times for very crucial conditions. Lord Krishna and Ram are some few examples of it
I would like to thank BG3 for helping this video making it to my feed! I don't play Baldur's Gate(yet, anyways), so this was exactly what I was looking for. 😂❤
Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous did the divine intervention concept quite well. Despite the overwhelming threat to Golarion from the planes of evil the other gods are unwilling to intervene fully for fear of escalation. There's a real sense of mutually assured destruction that pervades that entire title- and the feeling that the Golarionites are some tiny nation caught between NATO and the Soviets, each side fighting the other by proxy- and the blood of Golarionites.
There is a good reason for this. On Golarian, unlike on Toril, gods do not have avatars, just think of Deskari, who is technically a demigod, who physically shows up on Golarian, so there is even a greater prohibition regarding the manifestation of avatars there than there is in the D&D universe.
@@spellandshield No doubt. It really does feel like the forces of evil are hoodwinking the forces of good by threatening all-out war if some hypothetical red line is crossed- while simultaneously crossing all the red lines themselves! Which again reinforces the NATO vs Soviets proxy war concept.
Great video
Great video!
I love that you made a video on this.
My outlook on this is that the gods probably will and must intervene in order to promote their own portfolio.
Tyr for example must always promote justice, but he doesn't always have to do so personally, he can have his followers start paladin orders and monasteries to promote the ideas of justice and teach the population about doing what needs to be done. In most mundane cases, divine intervention may not even be neccessary for his followers to make reality work in accordance with the principles of justice. I really like to bring up justice, because, since Justice is a portfolio, that means that it is not the same thing as Tyr, and in fact it could in theory be taken away from him and come into the possession of someone else with a different outlook on justice. Furthermore, because Justice as a portfolio is a fully independent reality from Tyr, that means that Justice is an aspect of Reality within the Forgotten Realms, and as such, one can adhere to the principles of Justice without actually having to worshiip Tyr.
This would explain atheist Paladins. A Paladin sworn to uphold Justice could gain his divine power from the Portfolio of Justice itself. It is debatable if Tyr could permit or decline the flow of divine power from that portfolio to said atheist paladin, but given that the portfolio of Justice is in his possession, I would say that he would be the one to grant the divine powers to the atheist paladin in this case.
Now this leads to another question: When is Tyr justified in denying the divine powers that flow from the porfolio of Justice? The answer seems simple: he is right to deny these powers when they would cause or promote injsutice and fordbidden to deny them if they would be in line with Justice.
The Goddess Mystra once banned the use of magic for the followers of Tempus, because there was a conflict between her and the BattleGod, but AO intervened and forced Mystra to allow spellcasting on both sides.
Gods are subject to their own portfolios, and to me it seems that portfolios are actually above the gods themselves and are subject to AO.
In fact the portoflios remind me of the Titles of Noble Lords from Medieval Europe, but transferred into the realm of ideas. In a sense gods, just like devil princes, are prisoners of their own domain.
The fact that you are fully capable of saying all of that in Hungarian is mindblowing; you are a true sorcerer!
@@spellandshield Haha, well I am indeed descended from a line of fortune tellers.
Thank you for the lore and story telling.
Thank you for watching.
I actually prefer Greyhawk's gods; they are more distant but somehow more powerful and even frightening. I am trying to think of a deity as frightening as Nerull in the Forgotten Realms and the only one that is vaguely similar is Myrkul and he does not hold a candle to Nerull. Pelor is also much cooler than Lathander. I sort of just miss Greyhawk...but great video as always.
Greyhawk certainly had its charm.
Why couldn't you still play Greyhawk if you wanted to do so?
Thank you S & S for teaching me the difference between low magic & high magic, (the reference to Conan the Barbarian helped), & between chosen & avatars.
On Larian's discord, some people were explaining what an avatar is to me, & I still was confused. Some of them think that Raphael is an avatar of Asmodeus, which I hope is not true. I hope that Raphael is just a cambion grabbing for power. However, I'm sure the 9 hells don't want people on Toril to become mindflayers because of the 9 hells' economy. It'd make sense for Asmodeus & others in the 9 hells to issue avatars, but if that's the case, why are the 9 hells not rescuing Mizora, since her job is to collect souls. (How did a cambion like Mizora get captured in the 1st place?)
Your timing is perfect! I'm at the part in my fanfic where a cleric of Eilistraee is being possessed by a demon lord. I'm wondering if I should've Eilistraee save her cleric, or Shadowheart, except I don't think Shadowheart is powerful enough, & I doubt Shar would help, or Halsin, because Halsin is an Archdruid & Silvanus is a powerful deity, or I could've Volo call Elminster. (Especially since Volo in BG3, while in his goblin prison cell, writes a note to Elminster, but Tav can't give the letter back to Volo.) If I have Elminster's help, I could've Eliminster use Volo, which I don't think Elminster or Volo would want, or Elminster could show up & help, or Elminster could call Mystra to help. (I think Gale is still not on Mystra's "good" side, so I don't think Gale would be powerful enough to help.) I could've Lolth show up to save her former cleric because The Absolute is taking away Lolth's worshipers, so it'd benefit Lolth to rescue someone who is fighting against The Absolute.
I'd love to read your thoughts on this since you know more about the Forgotten Realms than I do, but if you just read this, that'd still be cool! :)
No one in the Nine Hells cares about the fate of a lone devil, let alone a lowly Cambion.
@@spellandshield Thank you for your input and for reading what I wrote. I really appreciate it. :)
ah va tar? Interesting pronunciation. Where are you from?
The ever hard decision, do I roll cleric or paladin?