@@gcn A helmet won't protect you from getting run over by a car. Being visible and practicing defensive cycling are a far safer and effective way to prevent accidents with automobiles.
Cyclists need to 'humanise' themselves by displaying (more) basic manners to other road users. That's what creates division and resentment. So few do and it baffles me - as both a cyclist and driver. Simple things like a quick thanks/acknowledgement to motorists that hang back before overtaking safely. I'm often thanked by drivers who I've thanked - they find it that surprising (but shouldn't).
Drivers will not slow down by asking them nicely, they need to feel that driving fast would be unsafe to *themselves*. This means designing roads to slow cars down in areas where pedestrians and cyclists are expected to show up. Paving stones, raised pedestrian crossings, narrowing roads (particularly next to intersections), tighter turns at intersections, etc. The Dutch have experimented and found these measures to work in the real world.
@gcn In Toronto we just elected a new mayor that commutes by bicycle, so for now it feels like we are moving in the right direction. We need to stop being meek and demand safer streets for everyone, so that children and women feel they have the choice to ride their bikes if they want to. Bikes don't kill people, cars do.
@@gcn TBH I don't think we're moving at all in most parts of the country outside of the largest cities. Our roads are just too small and narrow for any meaningful changes to assist cycle safety (a patch of paint in the gutter doesn't count). Every day on my commute I ride a section with alternating priorities where drivers are expected to give way - and every day I am charged down by motorists (including school coaches and lorries) who refuse to give way or recognise my presence as a cyclist. I have tried riding defensively to encourage drivers to give way as indicated by the priority signs, only to be targeted, shouted at and swerved at. I even get overtaken through these single car width sections some mornings with an inch or two to spare as if I don't exist.
After getting hit by a car from behind while riding my bicycle ten years ago I got into the habit of turning my head to look behind me every few minutes. I found that the car drivers would slow down and take much more care in passing after seeing my face and I realized that it must be causing them to see me as more of as a person and less as an object in their way. Not exactly scientific, but anecdotal evidence that supports this theory. Cheers!
I second this- this a great shout - I starting doing this a year ago and it works almost every time - the minute they think they’re being watched, they suddenly behave.
Yeah you're on to something for sure. I've noticed this recently when checking the road without even knowing a car was behind me. A few really switched up their behaviour. I think taking ownership and communicating properly on the road is key.
I'm 58 years old and have been a passionate cyclist for more than 5 decades now. As soon as bike-helmets were available in the early 80s , I wore one. They were far less comfortable, ventilated or well designed back then, but I didn't want to expose my head to more danger than necessary. In all these years and hundreds of thousands of km there were only two instances where I really needed one. The first was one freezing winter day of mountainbiking, where I slipped on an iceplate during a straight descent, the second was only two days ago during my holidays in Sweden, when I hit a curb, that separated the cyclepath from the car-lane, but bent round very far into the cyclepath at an entrance to a parking-lot blocking the straight way to the continuing cyclepath (I was busy looking for possible cars crossing my path and overlooked the curb). In both cases, no car or other vehicle was involved, both times I crashed my helmet. And as a doctor I can say: in both cases wearing a helmet saved me from severe head injury - if not worse. Regarding the discussion around "dehumanization" I want to add: it's more of an issue of the non-cyclists than that of the cyclists. The study was undertaken in Australia, that the author himself describes as a "hostile environment for cyclists", whereas the Netherlands seems to feel more like cycling-paradise. That's due to all the work that went into making riding bycicles a good choice, creating an environment that did not prioritize cars over all other forms of transport. It's the result of politics and conscious decisions to build cycling friendly infrastructure that create opportunities to people to use these posibilities and that change how people in general view cyclists over time.
Agree with every word. I lived Down Under for a while. The cities are very auto focussed, even pedestrians are badly served. Having great weather and a sporty culture, cycling is very popular, but heavy traffic is common and motorists quickly get frustrated and angry. Also, the populist media is hostile to ‘woke’ measures to make the roads safer for cyclists, cycle lanes etc…
Thanks for commenting. Sounds like it was worth wearing that helmet even it if was only needed in a couple of occasions! Would you like to see this research extended to a more cycling friendly country such as Australia?
@@gcn I don’t get the question? Do you mean that the research should be extended to more cycling friendly countries THAN Australia; or are you referring to other research mentioned in the comments done for example in the Netherlands showing what changes need to be done to create a cycling friendly environment and apply that to Australia (and many other countries) - I would prefer the latter. The problem with the study you showcased is that dehumanization is only a symptom, not the cause. It’s a psychological mechanism that allows people to attack others much more easily and without bad conscience. Why that is so prevalent in society is a much more complex and multi-faceted question. To use it as a measure for cycling related problems to me seems quite pointless. It’s just another example of how polarized society has become and people tend to stabilize their own sense of being overwhelmed by life through projection: when there is an enemy they can act out aggressively - for example against cyclists
We all sometimes "dehumanize" other people. We call them drivers, cyclists, runners, pedestrians, etc. and tend to forget that they are actually real living and breathing people who happen to be driving, riding, running, or walking. Even if we think they're misbehaving, they're still people. When a cyclist crashes, the first thing many people want to say is, "Was he wearing a helmet?" Not, "Was he injured," or "Is he OK?" That's associating the crash with a piece of gear and not with the person -- dehumanization.
As a fellow researcher, after listening to Mark, I feel I have to call out the fact that the main question from which they pulled their key headline was designed in such a way that it guaranteed them a headline! By asking respondents to decide which pictures made people look less human, you basically write the headline in advance. The only variable the respondents have any volition over is which image slots into that pre-made headline. Hacky research, done to grab attention. It's a shame that is what we reward, but well done Mark, you got your headlines and interview slots...
Also, they were shown 4 images according to Mark (no head gear, baseball cap, helmet, safety vest). If the images were picked at random, you’d expect each image to get 25% of the vote. The helmet version got 30% of the vote (based on what Si said earlier in the video). On a small sample size of 500, that’ll be struggling for any statistical significance against chance.
Thought the same. They should have shown the people a series of images for a brief duration and then had them recall how many people were in each. See if a reasonable difference shows up with the cyclists in protective gear or not.
Yes. The methodology was way off. Either ask if "Any of them looked nonhuman?" or include other sports and pictures of everyday life and then ask their question.
I had a car driver pull along side me while I was riding (and mind you I am in the bike lane…) they then told me “I’d feel a lot safer if you weren’t on the road” my good sir you are literally protected by a giant metal cocoon.
I experienced something like this yesterday, and I do both, sometimes biking without and with a helmet depending on where I am going, because some places out here are really rough, but I've always felt like having the helmet makes me a target in some parts of the city more then others. As with the situation that happened yesterday; I was biking a 5 km loop around a few blocks with no stops, and its really safe and easy with 35 mph speed limits large lanes and bike lane is rather large as well. I saw a bicyclist with a helmet on opposite from me on part of the main road get clipped by a car with no license plate and rather shoddy condition. I saw it happen in real time, the car was literally driving normally then it literally swerved toward the bicycle lane and hit the guy, causing the bicyclist to skid a bit and almost fall off his bike, and then he threw a bottle and curse at the driver, who responded with a swerving left and right motion and middle finger. Also on the same 50 km training route I saw a pedestrian almost get hit by a car near the end of my route, they literally sped up to try and beat the pedestrian across the crosswalk, causing them to have to stamper back. I need to start wearing a camera with all the crazy shit I am seeing out here.
Let's not forget we now ride on roads shared with drivers that are often preoccupied on their phones, texting and fiddling with their device without a care in the world. This leads to gross negligence in driving their 2 ton battering rams.
The real issue is infrastructure designed around cars and not people and in the states a lack of density and convenience public transport options forcing the use of cars.
I'm from Belgium and even here the public transit system is bad imo. Despite the very dense population taking public transport is less time efficient than a bike for any distance under 30k (sometimes more, but with exceptions too). Therefore people travel between cities which causes extreme traffic jams.
I think this study intends more to attribute a reason for real-world safety differences. The study doesn't directly measure safety differences, it measures cognitive biases that create safety differences.
I tend to ignore Surveys and look after my own safety. Where I live, cycling is pretty popular and cyclists are generally respected. My only accident was caused by another cyclist at low speed and the helmet took most of the impact with the ground, so I‘m certainly going to keep on wearing it.
I got obnoxiously honked by a bus driver the other day when they were overtaking me. The irony was the back of the bus was advertising cycling as a greener way of transport…
I do wear a helmet, but also wear clear glasses, not dark or mirrored, so my eyes are visible to others - anecdotal only but I think this makes a positive difference e.g. at junctions - I make eye contact with many drivers as a result.
I really missed those videos you guys did during the big races asking riders, what’s in your pockets? How much does your bike weight, etc. wish you could do those again
I live in the southern part of the States, which is full of pickup truck driving redneck ding dongs, and I have experienced a multitude of harassment. Lots of honking, near passes, yelling, and thrown objects such as coins, trash and even a full Coke. I always ride on roads with shoulders or a bike lane and do my best to stay clear of vehicles. All I can say is it’s never the person in a luxury sedan and nearly always a pickup truck causing the issues. I associate such behavior with low class, uneducated individuals.
I've ridden in West Virginia and Quebec among other places and indeed... Pickups are the worst. Even on country roads where we were not at all interfering with traffic...
Thanks so much for another cracking show. I got the yellow fever. This sensation in my stomach that only Tour de France gives you. Don't forget the team presentation at 6.30pm on Thursday.
Bogus research for sure. Utter rubbish. Does wearing a yellow T shirt on GCN make you look more or less human than a dark T shirt. Answer A less human B more human I do hope no one got paid for doing all this research.
The wording on the study seems to be leading people to choose the people who look less human. If you effectively camouflage something then it will look less like the thing it is. It would be interesting to test the opposite of this, get something that is vaguely human proportioned and dress it in the same outfits/coverings and then ask which looks *most* human. Would the object with a hat and glasses look more human than the object with which is just proportioned as such?
I would do more cycling to the store and just around but we have terrible cycling infrastructure. I live in oregon and with my children and the terrible bike "lanes", it is not safe or practical. I love how the Netherlands has a whole family individually riding bikes to a common place, oh and the kids riding to school. wow. I really envy that.
They study didn't show people think cyclists are less human with a helmet on. The study proves people become less human when they get behind the wheel of a car.
On normal Commute cycling i do not wear a helmet, and i got all types of threads, attacks etc. main problem is the auto centric mobility (at least in germany) where people in cars just think they are allowed to do everything because they are in a car.
Aha! Guitars and bikes crossover action! I can confirm that guitarists are typically very n+1 kind of people, even more so than cyclists perhaps. I would also propose that the gravel bike of guitars (go anywhere do anything) is the Fender Telecaster.
In my opinion that study was skewed. They asked the users “What makes the person look less human?” Right there they already labeled cyclists as “less than human.” Also, the visible jacket and helmet are items that people won't wear unless they are ridding a bike, and for that reason would make them look “less than human.”
I like to make I contact with drivers and wave in intersection, like "hi, look at me", they never launch in front of me when I do that. They look at me, and I pass. Its like when I do that they wake up from a dream or something, like they see me and a moment before I was invisible!
Interesting. I’ve wondered about the road kit/street clothes difference before. Also, I’ve always found some sort of signal or communication seems to help.
As for the hack/bodge submission for matching shoes and chain I sadly have to admit that far too often my commuter bike's chain matches my black shoes...
30 years ago I was run off the road by a driver who never even knew I was there. Impact with a rock put a 2 cm deep dent in the helmet that likely would have killed me had the helmet not been there. Instead I walked away with a sprained wrists and some minor cuts and scrapes. Wearing the helmet did NOTHING to increase the odds of that accident happening, but it sure did a LOT to keep it from killing me. Wear a helmet, and pay attention to where the anti-helmet data is coming from. It seems highly sketchy.
As a walker and a cyclist, I do wear a helmet when I ride and when I'm doing my early morning or evening walks-runs I do wear something reflective on me even my shirt, shoes and tights have reflective elements on them and I have found just as I have when I was a motorcycle rider some people don't see you, some don't care, some are very nice and polite and will tell you to proceed if you are waiting at an intersection or crossing a street. Most times at an intersection I wave the cars currently waiting to go it is not me just being polite but I like to rest my legs for a minute.
there has been a study by the german automobil club (ADAC). The result was that cyclist without a helmet on get more space while been overtaken by a car than a cylist wearing a helmet.
I almost crashed this morning...into another cyclist who rode across a street without stopping or looking. We don't just wear helmets for cars, we were them for dumb teens who don't look both ways before crossing a street, pedestrians who don't look for cyclists before stepping into bike lanes, and all the myriad other causes of crashes (including cars).
Why are GCN tip toeing around the poor state of driving generally? I don't actually think drivers discern between someone with/without a helmet... lycra or shorts. They just drive badly and in the case of the UK, they have no idea what the Law actually requires them to do behind the wheel.
Not just in the UK, babe! Same here in Los Angeles, although in LA, you contend w/drivers who feel they are superior to cyclists because they have 4 wheels.
@@gcn national campaign to educate drivers about their responsibilities as well as ours - as was done years ago with drink driving. At the moment, we have new rules for motorists and cyclists, and both parties do not know what they are. Cyclists know the rules, and motorists have in mind and different set of rules. Recipe for disaster…
Problem is, and it's something the italian channel talks about a lot: the people who follow this space are not the people the words about driving badly should be directed at. So it's basically pointless to talk about how drivers should behave on this channel.
I don't know about the hi-vis. I had a tradie come up to me in a carpark to thank me for wearing high-vis. Said he wished more cyclists realised it helped to make them more visible. I wear high-vis all the time and the only thing I think people think is that I am an old granny riding a bike.
In all the cyclling I have done over 4 decades and on 3 continents, I have never had an incident with a motorist that was looking me in the face. Mainly because we are travelling in the same direction and (IMO) the motorist is only aggresive when it is being "challenged" for it's ownership of the lane. From my first reading of this study I wondered about it's relavance in real world riding situations.
A lot of the attitude will be country & culture-specific. As a New Zealander living in Malmo, Sweden, a measure of difference is no-one says, Oh, so you're a cyclist, when you arrive at work, the library, someone's house...It's normalised. It wasn't always the case, and neither was it the Netherlands where Mark Limb was visiting until the 1970s. Infrastructure and safety gear help, but what was required in the Netherlands and in Malmo was a shift in culture.
I have been cycling regularly for about 15+ years, starting pretty late in life. I tend to ride solo. I live in a part of the US where cycling is not a big time activity. Over the course of time, I’ve developed my riding philosophy: Ride roads that have well defined shoulders, ride on roads and streets that are not heavily traveled, use flashing lights front and back, avoid busy intersections, make use of any bike lanes. I think some cyclists have a feeling of entitlement, and tend to be rude in their own way. We need to be conscious of the fact that no matter how fast we can go, we are probably slower than the prevailing traffic, and that can cause problems. I try to be a courteous rider. Sometimes acknowledging a driver’s positive action with a wave, I think, can show them you appreciate their attention. I’ve found that most drivers are pretty nice to me, although I have had some that weren’t (never had anything thrown at me, etc.). In the end, a driver should never behave in a way that could cause harm, even if the situation is frustrating to them.
It's not very scientific, but I feel that since I have started using bright lights fore and aft, day and night, that drivers are giving me more room. And even more, dare I say it, respect.
I've noticed the same. I also attached reflectors to my panniers and noticed drivers respect me more after that too. But I don't wear anything different from what I was planning to wear that day anyway. I think visibility equipment works best when it's on your bike, not your person. I also have cameras built into m bike's lights, so I can report motorist stupidity whenever it happens. It doesn't help me while I'm on my ride, but it does keep me from reaching for my bike lock when a motorist intentionally tries to harass me, since I know I can just report them later.
Sometimes I wear a helmet, sometimes not. It depends on the ride I am planning. I do feel that wearing a helmet de-humanizes me to the extent that it puts a barrier between me and the world. I like to interact with people when I am out, just to smile or acknowledge people, or to exchange a friendly word. I think a helmet gets in the way of that. I do attract more negative attention wearing a helmet, but then I also attract more negative attention if I am on my road bike as opposed to trundling to the shops on my hybrid. The cycling infrastructure is very poor where I live, so I am careful about when and where I ride, but I will say that sometimes I am pleasantly surprised by the courtesy shown me by drivers.
The other day I visited the botanical gardens at RHS Wisley by bike. Annoyingly I forgot a change of shorts and so was walking around in normal everyday clothes + my lycra shorts. When crossing a footbridge a mother called out at her kid on the other side to "stop and let the cyclist go past"! I almost turned around to see what numpty was riding a bike in the gardens! It was a perfectly friendly interaction but not one I was expecting on foot, without a bike, a helmet or a high vis jacket in sight. Just a pair of lycra shorts was enough for the mother to instinctively categorise me first and foremost as a "cyclist" not just another person. Hardly 'dehumanization' but definitely a mild case of 'othering'.
Si's suggestion of other countries has a drawback; countries like the Netherlands, where cycling is normalized, tend to have very low rates of helmet use. And perhaps this shows a broader problem with the study; the countries with high helmet use happen to also be the countries with drivers who are careless or worse with cyclists.
There is a cargo bike for transporting every instrument in a symphony orchestra. The only people that might need help are the percussion, not just lots of instruments but timpani are quite bulky. I know this because I was considering this in rehearsals before buying mine to transport my cello.
6 weeks ago I had a car turn in front of me when they didn't see me. I was left with a long list of injuries including a fracture at the base of my skull. My helmet is absolutely totalled and took all the impact to my head.I may not ride again this year but if that had been my skull instead of the helmet I wouldn't be here. Every medical professional I spoke to said the helmet saved my life so I'd rather wear one than not just to fit in
Most of my local vehicle drivers are quite considerate of space for me when i am cycling. There seems to be the idea that more cyclists are not following the rules of the road, and that seems to be the reason for some driver irritation. Apart from a few kids locally not following road rules, a higher proportion of drivers are ignoring the rules, mostly speeding, by a lot, or overtaking on bends when they shouldn't. Don't want bikes in your way protest your local city government for bike lanes! Or just realize that anything that is in the road using the road whether a car a van a bike a tractor or a horse is TRAFFIC and you're waiting for traffic! I move out of the way to pull out lanes often when the road is one lane each way and there is traffic behind me, as soon as i see a safe pull over spot i will. But also when there is no space to pull over i have taken/maintained the lane (and some places have signs up that you can for those that don't know) on bad bends for my safety and for those behind me trying to get around a bend on a line they shouldn't be crossing. BUT nothing is more dehumanizing than people driving around protected in a big tin box, but that also need a big fluffy pillow to come out of their steering to protect them if they get in an accident, but we don't need helmets? lol I am jesting of course for irony on the last one just like safety measures need to be in place in your car they should also be on our head while cycling. Drew.
I'm never human on my bike when I drop my wattage bazooka..... No one can understand how someone can produce so few watts. 😅. I was brought up to always wear my helmet put on the bike and teach my kids that.
interesting explanation and nuance from the study author that I hadn't heard in other coverage. My takeaway is that while I'm still not sure that the finding as a whole isn't just bogus, that people didn't just pick a stupid survey choice to a bad question, it definitely seems impossible to apply outside of Australia. If you give 5 outlines of people in different clothes and require picking one as "less human", I don't see how the conclusion can be that the choice actually means that the person thinks that one is in fact less human
Very important issue. Reminds me of a study done in the United Kingdom, which showed that a male cyclist wearing a helmet and hi vis was far more likely to be close passed by a car than a female wearing no helmet. The safest cyclist on that survey was a male, wearing a fake police hi vis jacket, funnily enough. When I was hit by a car two years ago, while cycling home, with a helmet, hi vis and lights, I was thrown in the air, but got lucky, didn't break anything. The next day, I went for a cycle (on another bike) and noticed my helmet was broken. Dont remember hitting my head, but that helmet saved my life.
Away from urban environments the biggest risk is being hit from behind. My friend and I, both experienced drivers as well as occasional cyclists, instinctively and frequently look behind to check for cars. It allows for early eye contact as well as making space for them to pass. The eye contact negates the "othering" mentioned in the interview.
That study wasn't "science" and shouldn't be treated with any seriousness. When you ask someone "Which of these looks less human?" there is an inherent bias and you're leading the person answering the question. Doing some study about "dehumanization" and then telling the respondants that one of the pictures is less human that another assumes that this thing you're studying is going on. That question doesn't allow the person responding to say they all look human. Intentional or not, that question is biased towards confirming a theory. Then, spreading the story in the cycling community where people are already pre-disposed towards an us-vs-them mentality with motorists...presto! attention and confirmation.
I don't care what other drivers/travelers think, nor do I care whether helmets are required or not in my region, I'm definitely still wearing my helmet. I've had friends whose lives were saved by their helmets and were able to survive horrible crashes with broken arms, ribs, clavicles, and a cracked destroyed helmet, but no neck or head injuries. I've also had to say goodbye to two friends who did not wear helmets and would have survived with proper head gear for road or mountain biking. None of these accidents involved any motorists or non-cyclists. I'm wearing mine.
A helmet is mostly there to protect your head when you fall or crash yourself, but it will also help you if a car crashes into you and lower speed. I will never not wear a helmet when cycling because concussions are awful and brain injury is much worse, and a tiny little mistake on your own or by someone else can cause you to fall and hit your head.
@@axelmogrhow.. why... In what way can they worsen the effect? The only explanation I can think of is that wearing a helmet increases the risk of brain injury by decreasing the risk of death, but that's still a stretch
@@TheTuxani think of your head as an egg; the yolk being your brain. put the egg in a protective casing and drop it. at worst the egg will break and at best the contents will get all scrambled up inside the shell. apply this analogy to your head in a helmet or in case you dont like this analogy there are several studies that prove helmets in sports such as boxing, rugby and american football are next to useless in preventing concussions or severe head injury and in the case of soft headgear may even aggravate the effects. google it
@@axelmogr But wouldn't the egg be more likely to break without the protective casing, thereby spilling the yolk all over the place? The times I tried the experiment in school, the egg with a helmet (they actually had an egg-sized bike helmet specifically for this experiment) survived a fall from a far far greater height than the ones without As for the sports helmets I also seem to remember some studies showing that the number of brain injuries didn't decrease when helmets were worn. But I don't think they accounted for the sport adapting by being more physical/violent. As for the soft helmets I think that sounds plausible. If the user is willing to take the same (perceived) risk, and the helmets perceived safety is greater than their actual safety, more brain injuries would be the result. But I still believe that a helmet protects against brain injuries, all else being equal (ie not taking a higher risk/going faster/ hit harder because of the helmet)
This is one of the reasons I do mostly gravel riding now days. I have been hit 2 times by cars (while commuting to and from work in a big city) and feel so much safer on separate biking trails and gravel/dirt roads.
Unfortunately to feel safe I have to take a lot of ownership of my space on the road. I'm a tall and athletic male so for me it's not as bad since I know I can defend myself if need be. Now, I feel for everyone else on the road who doesn't have that privilige and I certainly wish it wasn't like that even for me. Kind of stops me from recommending cycling to certain people since I already know they would hate the pressure that car drivers put on us. Especially if you are a slower or just more casual rider it can be quite overwhelming. Ultimately many car drivers tend to get mad at whatever is in front of them that they perceive to be slowing them down. Even if their overall trip isn't affected by it. Personally I don't think we'll get drivers to change but people adapt to their environment. Which means we should work on that. Better infrastructure, public transport and improved city planning will bring the change, I believe. In the meantime we can also do our part as cyclists to be kind and cooperative with other road users and try to fill in the gaps where others might be inattentive or uncaring. I know it's not perfect but we can at least bring something to the table that we'd like to see in others as well.
There are two distinctive types of risk relating to motorist on the road when cycling: 1. Harassment and 2. Being hit by a driver who fails to see you. Unless, the driver who dehumanizes you and harasses you is a true psychopath who tries to run you off the road (I know that does happen), the second type of risk is far more dangerous than the first. For that reason, I consider that adopting measures that may prevent the second risk from materializing is more important than the fact that they may cause someone to harass you. However, I hope that this remains a personal decision that does not get legislated on, one way or another.
Humanising people who cycle is what the campaign i am part of - More Than A Cyclist is focused on - it would be fantastic to have you and the GCN community engaged with us.
I choose to wear a helmet for my own safety, not because I am "told" to or feel pressure to. Most of my negative interactions out on the roads (in London) are with other cyclists being dangerous, jumping lights, not paying attention etc. I can't say the survey in any way supports anything I have experienced on the roads. As for cycling not being dangerous.... OK, I agree, but it has inherent dangers. Fall over walking at 3mph, graze your knee, maybe fracture your wrist. Fall off a bike at 15mph, it hurts a lot more, and having products available to help minimise those injuries is a good thing surely.
Great video. I have never used a helmet since getting into road bikes and in my experience it's always the helmet-wearing, high-visibility vest riders causing trouble. Blocking bike lanes whilst going slow, swinging wide into turns, harassing car drivers in the absence of bike lanes, etc. These things give people a sense of false safety and even worse, a sense of entitlement and victimhood. Life is better if you assume total responsibility for the risk you are taking everytime you go out there to ride your bike; it aint just you out there and human stupidity is to be expected and accounted for at all times. Helmetless is the only way to go
Even the gentleman in the interview about dehumanization said that the danger occurs when cyclists interact with motor vehicles. This is like those frustrating headlines that say things like “Cyclist killed when struck. By car.” While that may be strictly true, the issue is the behavior of the people in co tell if those cars. As cyclists and road safety advocates, it is essential for us to humanize the drivers by holding them responsible, and not simply saying that “a car hit a cyclist.” No: A person hit that cyclist with their car.
Hey GCN. Thanks for all your very informing and inspiring videos! 🙏🏻 Can you please make a video about RED-S (Relative Energy Deficiency in Sports). I think more athletes should know about it, it’s impact, it’s risks etc. I were tired for a long time, however I got 9 hours of sleep every night. Then, after almost an half year, i found out that I didn’t fuel properly, in the hunt for a lean body. So I think it’s a very important topic to inform about :-)
Based on thinking about all of this quite a lot over a few years, and from the notions of others, and probably that same background study the Australian was getting at, there are a few clear take aways that I reinforce with myself often. I think of bike helmets as basically useless and more than that saddled with many negatives for safety and outcomes. I never wear them, no matter what I'm using the bikes for one any given day. But besides that, yes indeed there are the things about perceptions as you discussed which I've heard before and which I feel is part of the cause and effect for interactions with drivers on the road. It's well known for instance that drivers will pass closer to cyclists when they wear helmets and likely as well for the "less than human" theory, any combination of competition-like road cycling gear will only be on the same page as the helmets for effect. I think what you get with it is a more dangerous situation in return mostly for the image of the competitive road cyclist, which is a bad deal for us. As the Australian was discussing, yes indeed "normalization" is important. Likewise for not always making it appear as if it's dangerous when it's not, not always making it seem like a sport, when it's not always a sport or done like a sport. You don't get greater numbers of people on bikes when the image is used against that, when they see it as something wildly unrelatable or dangerous. Helmets are one of the key things which works against that. It's not just the mandating in places like the Australian states, but also how many people have them on, how the state propagates on them, how much they're emphasized compared to responsible driving, and bike infrastructure.
Where I live, decent quality generic brand, not high quality famous brand helmets are expensive. I've not yet been able to buy one despite being hit by cars and motorcyclists 4 times in less than 2 years. MIPS helmets are a luxury reserved for the high income.
Dan : " I've never seen a matching shoes and chain combo before" Too many of the rest of us: " May I present my black shoes and filthy wet lubed chain, for your consideration."
I bike, I walk, I drive a car, and I ride a motorbike. The notion of being blatantly ignorant of anyone else is vehicle agnostic. I see transportation as a 'dance' all with different types of partners (vehicles). It just comes down to respect. In regards to cycling in the Netherlands - it's because anyone driving ALSO rides a bike, there's an outrageously high standard for driving, and bike are viewed as a means of transportation (not a recreational toy). I don't know what the atmosphere is like 'down-undaa' but here in the states bikes are still largely viewed as recreational toys and not a viable transportation option. Even within cities.
I think the team kits annoy car drivers....Best all in black and daybright lights so there's much less reason for them not to see you. And a yes for helmets as someone who in his youth got sparked out by a car on this RD350LC and slid down the road with a shower of sparks flying past the visor from the metal stud on it I realised that would have been my face instead on the tarmac....
Sorry to break the “Cycling Paradise” narrative for the Netherlands- at least for “roadies”. There is a bit of a war against roadies by non roadies. First it is good to understand that most people in the Netherlands use a bike at least from time to time in their lives as a basic utility. They do not identify as cyclists as happens in the uk. For this utility use there is no Lycra or helmet worn. A minority of people will also have a cycling hobby of which “wielrennen” (road cycling) is one form. This always features Lycra and helmets and in this guise the “wielrenner” (roadie) is different and looks different to other people that ride bikes. Yes the cycling infrastructure is second to none there and it’s a wonderful place to get around by bike but there is a hatred of “wielrenners” (literally “wheel runners” or what we would call “roadies” in the uk) by some. The problem is that wielrenners go much faster and often ride in groups. As the same infrastructure is shared this causes friction leading to rage incidents as well as the occasional accident. There are few opportunities for bikes to come into contact with cars but wielrenners are more likely to do so if given a chance so drivers (who may already dislike roadies from their own utility bike experiences) may behave in a hostile manner. This gets stoked up by media and social media so is not so different to what we’re familiar with except here the war is generally not with motorists. The main difference is cyclists are not so much of a homogeneous group in the Netherlands as they are in the uk. It’s “the people” (many of whom ride bikes or e-bikes regularly) vs helmet and Lycra clad road cyclists. A very different culture to the uk.
I am a (helmetless) cyclist for close to thirty years now and i have to admit I still think it looks a little strange. In my experience of about 100.000km on a bike with most of it in city traffic. If you get picked off it's usually a crossing and there you are also a good target as a pedestrian. But no one recommends helmets there (yet). On the other occasions I could avoid collisions by just making my intentions of travel direction clear and if in any doubt then back down and see what the other guy is doing, because you will loose that fight regardless of the number of helmets. Well and then there is things like ambitious cornering with road bikes on gravel, but that's of my own making and a helmet wouldn't have helped either. Would have needed elbow, shin and asspads. For me it boils down to this: Since cyclists without helmets pose no increased danger to other people I say let everyone do as they please and that goes especially against the nanny state - thank god they still managed to keep their fingers off of that topic in germany.
Wholeheartedly agree. I think most accidents on the bike can be avoided with observation, common sense, and decisiveness. A lot of bike riders feel entitled to using the roads and get offended at the mere thought of having to account for what cars and pedestrians around you might do. No helmet or any piece of equipment will ever spare you from having to be acutely aware of your surroundings
Just curious - what’s your position on motorcycle helmets and seat belts. Every occur to you that the aftermath of a crash doesn’t just affect the vegetable on the tarmac…?
@@dominicbritt they could. Though the combination of medicines is hard to judge regarding side effects. But do you think that every cliff should have a warning sign and a hand rail just because you could fall to your death? Swimming only allowed with a flotation device because you could drown? I don't think that an adult human being should have an "owner"/legal guardian=nanny state, that tells him how he should look after his own health.
I feel safer bike lanes & slowing traffic down will make cycling safer which in turn will encourage more folks to cycle making cyclists more common...ie the Netherlands. Plus educating all new drivers & older drivers as well, of course. 🙄 Some cyclists also need to exhibit better manners. Just saying. 😌
I am a Brit who has just moved to NZ (Tauranga specifically). The cycle lanes here are the worst layout I’ve ever seen. They suddenly stop or get diverted 10m down a side street to wait at a crossing to return back to the main road. Designed completely the wrong way giving drivers the priority at all times. This leads us to cycle on the road and the amount of abuse we get is INSANE. Dangerous overtaking and people yelling at us through the windows makes the ride unpleasant to say the least. Very interesting study but I would not feel safe without my helmet.
I have worn a helmet since I was 16. Saw my friend, Adrian, get t-boned by a car. What a mess! Skull fracture, facial fractures. Have worn a helmet for 45 years. Most drivers are great, but all it takes is a cellphone distraction. Be safe fellow riders.
I can understand how an increased 'coolness factor' in road cyclists can contribute to the impression outlined in the study, in particular with regards to skinsuits and the enormous sunglasses Si loves to wear. It would be interesting to compare the perceived 'human' characteristic of a road cyclist with that of mountain bikers or other rides wearing casual clothes, not to mention motor cyclists in full leather suit and the driver of a large SUV. Surely any of those will loose some humanity compared to a casual pedestrian.
Half of my thinking when I got my indoor trainer was due to the agro I have had when out on the road. I don't need it to be honest. In fairness, I do find that if on my mountain bike commuting etc. then drivers are much better than if I'm on my road bike. So the study makes sense. All the on line stuff is also very threatening. It's sad, but a fact of life. I do all I can to cycle the way I drive. respecting others and following the rules. As in set an example. I have no prejudices.
Ban private cars and then there will be no need to wear helmets, unless you’re racing or training fast. And it makes sense that cyclists get seen as less human when wearing all the gear. I remember wanting to feel anonymous and less like myself when I used to have a road bike and I put on my helmet and sunglasses. And I’ve also been treated in a much more friendly fashion by drivers when I’ve been riding my upright Dutch bike with no helmet, and maybe a pair of casual sunglasses rather than sport ones. Maybe also a bobble hat in winter. I didn’t feel like that made much difference. Probably because most people are wearing a hat in cold months.
Someone should make a compilation of Si blaming things on social media. It will be the GCN version of the Thanks Obama meme. I don't know if it's common in other countries, but we have our own version of that, which is called Wina Tuska(Tusk's Fault).
What do you think? Share your thoughts with us below 👇
Stop wearing helmets, cycle slower and stop pretending that casual cycling is anything like racing.
@@DangerAmbrose Interesting point 🤔 Do you think that riding slower makes you safe enough from cars that a helmet is not needed?
@@gcn A helmet won't protect you from getting run over by a car. Being visible and practicing defensive cycling are a far safer and effective way to prevent accidents with automobiles.
@@DangerAmbrose you can still fall off or get knocked off at slower speeds? Also speed is what makes cycling fun
Cyclists need to 'humanise' themselves by displaying (more) basic manners to other road users. That's what creates division and resentment. So few do and it baffles me - as both a cyclist and driver. Simple things like a quick thanks/acknowledgement to motorists that hang back before overtaking safely. I'm often thanked by drivers who I've thanked - they find it that surprising (but shouldn't).
Drivers will not slow down by asking them nicely, they need to feel that driving fast would be unsafe to *themselves*. This means designing roads to slow cars down in areas where pedestrians and cyclists are expected to show up. Paving stones, raised pedestrian crossings, narrowing roads (particularly next to intersections), tighter turns at intersections, etc. The Dutch have experimented and found these measures to work in the real world.
Interesting ideas! Do you think we are moving in the right direction? 🚧
@gcn In Toronto we just elected a new mayor that commutes by bicycle, so for now it feels like we are moving in the right direction. We need to stop being meek and demand safer streets for everyone, so that children and women feel they have the choice to ride their bikes if they want to. Bikes don't kill people, cars do.
True. Concepts well described many times by the channel “Not Just Bikes”. The majority of the other European countries are still many years behind…
@@gcn TBH I don't think we're moving at all in most parts of the country outside of the largest cities. Our roads are just too small and narrow for any meaningful changes to assist cycle safety (a patch of paint in the gutter doesn't count). Every day on my commute I ride a section with alternating priorities where drivers are expected to give way - and every day I am charged down by motorists (including school coaches and lorries) who refuse to give way or recognise my presence as a cyclist. I have tried riding defensively to encourage drivers to give way as indicated by the priority signs, only to be targeted, shouted at and swerved at. I even get overtaken through these single car width sections some mornings with an inch or two to spare as if I don't exist.
@@bigangus3590 where do you live (country)?
After getting hit by a car from behind while riding my bicycle ten years ago I got into the habit of turning my head to look behind me every few minutes. I found that the car drivers would slow down and take much more care in passing after seeing my face and I realized that it must be causing them to see me as more of as a person and less as an object in their way. Not exactly scientific, but anecdotal evidence that supports this theory. Cheers!
That’s called head checking something motorcycle riders do lots of. Riding a motorcycle has made me a better driver & a better cyclist
no they're just more self conscious about their behavior when you can see them.
I second this- this a great shout - I starting doing this a year ago and it works almost every time - the minute they think they’re being watched, they suddenly behave.
Yeah you're on to something for sure. I've noticed this recently when checking the road without even knowing a car was behind me. A few really switched up their behaviour. I think taking ownership and communicating properly on the road is key.
I do and have found the exact same thing.
I'm 58 years old and have been a passionate cyclist for more than 5 decades now. As soon as bike-helmets were available in the early 80s , I wore one. They were far less comfortable, ventilated or well designed back then, but I didn't want to expose my head to more danger than necessary. In all these years and hundreds of thousands of km there were only two instances where I really needed one. The first was one freezing winter day of mountainbiking, where I slipped on an iceplate during a straight descent, the second was only two days ago during my holidays in Sweden, when I hit a curb, that separated the cyclepath from the car-lane, but bent round very far into the cyclepath at an entrance to a parking-lot blocking the straight way to the continuing cyclepath (I was busy looking for possible cars crossing my path and overlooked the curb). In both cases, no car or other vehicle was involved, both times I crashed my helmet. And as a doctor I can say: in both cases wearing a helmet saved me from severe head injury - if not worse.
Regarding the discussion around "dehumanization" I want to add: it's more of an issue of the non-cyclists than that of the cyclists. The study was undertaken in Australia, that the author himself describes as a "hostile environment for cyclists", whereas the Netherlands seems to feel more like cycling-paradise. That's due to all the work that went into making riding bycicles a good choice, creating an environment that did not prioritize cars over all other forms of transport. It's the result of politics and conscious decisions to build cycling friendly infrastructure that create opportunities to people to use these posibilities and that change how people in general view cyclists over time.
Agree with every word. I lived Down Under for a while. The cities are very auto focussed, even pedestrians are badly served. Having great weather and a sporty culture, cycling is very popular, but heavy traffic is common and motorists quickly get frustrated and angry. Also, the populist media is hostile to ‘woke’ measures to make the roads safer for cyclists, cycle lanes etc…
@@ChrisWhittenMusic So making the road safer is "woke" now? that's one of the most ridiculous things I've heard all week lol.
Thanks for commenting. Sounds like it was worth wearing that helmet even it if was only needed in a couple of occasions! Would you like to see this research extended to a more cycling friendly country such as Australia?
@@gcn I don’t get the question? Do you mean that the research should be extended to more cycling friendly countries THAN Australia; or are you referring to other research mentioned in the comments done for example in the Netherlands showing what changes need to be done to create a cycling friendly environment and apply that to Australia (and many other countries) - I would prefer the latter.
The problem with the study you showcased is that dehumanization is only a symptom, not the cause. It’s a psychological mechanism that allows people to attack others much more easily and without bad conscience. Why that is so prevalent in society is a much more complex and multi-faceted question. To use it as a measure for cycling related problems to me seems quite pointless. It’s just another example of how polarized society has become and people tend to stabilize their own sense of being overwhelmed by life through projection: when there is an enemy they can act out aggressively - for example against cyclists
@@charlesmiv3842 In the eyes of the anti-cycling brigade (not me).
We all sometimes "dehumanize" other people. We call them drivers, cyclists, runners, pedestrians, etc. and tend to forget that they are actually real living and breathing people who happen to be driving, riding, running, or walking. Even if we think they're misbehaving, they're still people. When a cyclist crashes, the first thing many people want to say is, "Was he wearing a helmet?" Not, "Was he injured," or "Is he OK?" That's associating the crash with a piece of gear and not with the person -- dehumanization.
Like when a woman/girl is raped, and they ask what she was wearing.
Great point! Very few of us are just cyclists or just drives. Perhaps we need to treat everyone with more respect 🤔
“The car hit the bus” etc. Hearing things like that on national radio networks filters in to people’s vocabulary
@@adamfeerst2575 Yes, same sort of twisted response as if the victim is at fault.
Some cyclists even dehumanize other cyclists - you know those ones on disc brakes are bloody awful!
As a fellow researcher, after listening to Mark, I feel I have to call out the fact that the main question from which they pulled their key headline was designed in such a way that it guaranteed them a headline!
By asking respondents to decide which pictures made people look less human, you basically write the headline in advance. The only variable the respondents have any volition over is which image slots into that pre-made headline.
Hacky research, done to grab attention. It's a shame that is what we reward, but well done Mark, you got your headlines and interview slots...
Also, they were shown 4 images according to Mark (no head gear, baseball cap, helmet, safety vest). If the images were picked at random, you’d expect each image to get 25% of the vote. The helmet version got 30% of the vote (based on what Si said earlier in the video). On a small sample size of 500, that’ll be struggling for any statistical significance against chance.
Couldn’t agree more
Thought the same. They should have shown the people a series of images for a brief duration and then had them recall how many people were in each. See if a reasonable difference shows up with the cyclists in protective gear or not.
Yes. The methodology was way off. Either ask if "Any of them looked nonhuman?" or include other sports and pictures of everyday life and then ask their question.
Absolutely. Clearly flawed and attention grabbing survey that is swayed to get a controversial result.
I had a car driver pull along side me while I was riding (and mind you I am in the bike lane…) they then told me “I’d feel a lot safer if you weren’t on the road” my good sir you are literally protected by a giant metal cocoon.
I experienced something like this yesterday, and I do both, sometimes biking without and with a helmet depending on where I am going, because some places out here are really rough, but I've always felt like having the helmet makes me a target in some parts of the city more then others. As with the situation that happened yesterday; I was biking a 5 km loop around a few blocks with no stops, and its really safe and easy with 35 mph speed limits large lanes and bike lane is rather large as well. I saw a bicyclist with a helmet on opposite from me on part of the main road get clipped by a car with no license plate and rather shoddy condition. I saw it happen in real time, the car was literally driving normally then it literally swerved toward the bicycle lane and hit the guy, causing the bicyclist to skid a bit and almost fall off his bike, and then he threw a bottle and curse at the driver, who responded with a swerving left and right motion and middle finger. Also on the same 50 km training route I saw a pedestrian almost get hit by a car near the end of my route, they literally sped up to try and beat the pedestrian across the crosswalk, causing them to have to stamper back. I need to start wearing a camera with all the crazy shit I am seeing out here.
Let's not forget we now ride on roads shared with drivers that are often preoccupied on their phones, texting and fiddling with their device without a care in the world. This leads to gross negligence in driving their 2 ton battering rams.
The real issue is infrastructure designed around cars and not people and in the states a lack of density and convenience public transport options forcing the use of cars.
What would you like to see the States change to make more people ride? 🇺🇸
@@gcnstop subsidizing gasoline, and put more than just painted lines to protect cyclists, and make roads narrower to make drivers go slower
I'm from Belgium and even here the public transit system is bad imo. Despite the very dense population taking public transport is less time efficient than a bike for any distance under 30k (sometimes more, but with exceptions too). Therefore people travel between cities which causes extreme traffic jams.
@@gcn ua-cam.com/users/notjustbikes
As explained, a survey asking people to "rank" may or may not be indicative of the real world safety differences.
I think this study intends more to attribute a reason for real-world safety differences. The study doesn't directly measure safety differences, it measures cognitive biases that create safety differences.
I tend to ignore Surveys and look after my own safety.
Where I live, cycling is pretty popular and cyclists are generally respected. My only accident was caused by another cyclist at low speed and the helmet took most of the impact with the ground, so I‘m certainly going to keep on wearing it.
Interesting point! Do you find that worrying too much on surveys and research can lead to anxious behaviour on the roads?
I got obnoxiously honked by a bus driver the other day when they were overtaking me. The irony was the back of the bus was advertising cycling as a greener way of transport…
I do wear a helmet, but also wear clear glasses, not dark or mirrored, so my eyes are visible to others - anecdotal only but I think this makes a positive difference e.g. at junctions - I make eye contact with many drivers as a result.
I really missed those videos you guys did during the big races asking riders, what’s in your pockets? How much does your bike weight, etc. wish you could do those again
We still do all this 🙌 Make sure you keep an eye out for Tour De France content coming soon 👀
@@gcn*Tour de France videos, am I right 😄
I’m now concerned about road construction workers, with their high vis clothing and helmets. They’re like human bowling pins out there!
😂 Had exactly the same thought.
I live in the southern part of the States, which is full of pickup truck driving redneck ding dongs, and I have experienced a multitude of harassment. Lots of honking, near passes, yelling, and thrown objects such as coins, trash and even a full Coke. I always ride on roads with shoulders or a bike lane and do my best to stay clear of vehicles. All I can say is it’s never the person in a luxury sedan and nearly always a pickup truck causing the issues. I associate such behavior with low class, uneducated individuals.
I am up in the rural PNW and it's the same thing. Always the pickup truck.
I've ridden in West Virginia and Quebec among other places and indeed... Pickups are the worst. Even on country roads where we were not at all interfering with traffic...
Old white guys are the worst in their Dodge Ram pick up trucks, here in South Jersey.
That sounds rough. In England it's often executive cat drivers who drive like you're not there but at least they don't throw cans of coke 😮
@@DavidWhiteOfFleet more likely to be a can of San Pellegrino
Thanks so much for another cracking show. I got the yellow fever. This sensation in my stomach that only Tour de France gives you. Don't forget the team presentation at 6.30pm on Thursday.
I will always wear a helmet. I prefer the early detection method of defensive riding (Varia, Wahoo, TriEye Glasses).
For me, I feel it was a loaded answer to be 'less human’ cycling. Wear whatever you like and have fun, and your joyful vibration will be contagious. ❤
Agree. An interesting study but ultimately not really substantial enough to draw any sorts of conclusions from it.
Bogus research for sure. Utter rubbish. Does wearing a yellow T shirt on GCN make you look more or less human than a dark T shirt.
Answer
A less human
B more human
I do hope no one got paid for doing all this research.
Maybe Si could join me on a day at my job as an electrician to cure his hate against zip ties 😄
The wording on the study seems to be leading people to choose the people who look less human. If you effectively camouflage something then it will look less like the thing it is. It would be interesting to test the opposite of this, get something that is vaguely human proportioned and dress it in the same outfits/coverings and then ask which looks *most* human. Would the object with a hat and glasses look more human than the object with which is just proportioned as such?
I would do more cycling to the store and just around but we have terrible cycling infrastructure. I live in oregon and with my children and the terrible bike "lanes", it is not safe or practical.
I love how the Netherlands has a whole family individually riding bikes to a common place, oh and the kids riding to school. wow. I really envy that.
They study didn't show people think cyclists are less human with a helmet on. The study proves people become less human when they get behind the wheel of a car.
On normal Commute cycling i do not wear a helmet, and i got all types of threads, attacks etc. main problem is the auto centric mobility (at least in germany) where people in cars just think they are allowed to do everything because they are in a car.
Aha! Guitars and bikes crossover action! I can confirm that guitarists are typically very n+1 kind of people, even more so than cyclists perhaps. I would also propose that the gravel bike of guitars (go anywhere do anything) is the Fender Telecaster.
In my opinion that study was skewed. They asked the users “What makes the person look less human?” Right there they already labeled cyclists as “less than human.” Also, the visible jacket and helmet are items that people won't wear unless they are ridding a bike, and for that reason would make them look “less than human.”
I like to make I contact with drivers and wave in intersection, like "hi, look at me", they never launch in front of me when I do that. They look at me, and I pass. Its like when I do that they wake up from a dream or something, like they see me and a moment before I was invisible!
You don't see with your eyes. You see with your brain.
Interesting. I’ve wondered about the road kit/street clothes difference before.
Also, I’ve always found some sort of signal or communication seems to help.
As for the hack/bodge submission for matching shoes and chain I sadly have to admit that far too often my commuter bike's chain matches my black shoes...
30 years ago I was run off the road by a driver who never even knew I was there. Impact with a rock put a 2 cm deep dent in the helmet that likely would have killed me had the helmet not been there. Instead I walked away with a sprained wrists and some minor cuts and scrapes.
Wearing the helmet did NOTHING to increase the odds of that accident happening, but it sure did a LOT to keep it from killing me.
Wear a helmet, and pay attention to where the anti-helmet data is coming from. It seems highly sketchy.
Nice. Like the ease of adjusting. The attached safety light works well.
As a walker and a cyclist, I do wear a helmet when I ride and when I'm doing my early morning or evening walks-runs I do wear something reflective on me even my shirt, shoes and tights have reflective elements on them and I have found just as I have when I was a motorcycle rider some people don't see you, some don't care, some are very nice and polite and will tell you to proceed if you are waiting at an intersection or crossing a street.
Most times at an intersection I wave the cars currently waiting to go it is not me just being polite but I like to rest my legs for a minute.
there has been a study by the german automobil club (ADAC). The result was that cyclist without a helmet on get more space while been overtaken by a car than a cylist wearing a helmet.
I almost crashed this morning...into another cyclist who rode across a street without stopping or looking. We don't just wear helmets for cars, we were them for dumb teens who don't look both ways before crossing a street, pedestrians who don't look for cyclists before stepping into bike lanes, and all the myriad other causes of crashes (including cars).
Why are GCN tip toeing around the poor state of driving generally? I don't actually think drivers discern between someone with/without a helmet... lycra or shorts. They just drive badly and in the case of the UK, they have no idea what the Law actually requires them to do behind the wheel.
How do you think we can all improve our driving? 👀
Not just in the UK, babe! Same here in Los Angeles, although in LA, you contend w/drivers who feel they are superior to cyclists because they have 4 wheels.
@@gcn national campaign to educate drivers about their responsibilities as well as ours - as was done years ago with drink driving.
At the moment, we have new rules for motorists and cyclists, and both parties do not know what they are.
Cyclists know the rules, and motorists have in mind and different set of rules.
Recipe for disaster…
@@elizabethpoley6882 agree this is pretty universal.
Problem is, and it's something the italian channel talks about a lot: the people who follow this space are not the people the words about driving badly should be directed at. So it's basically pointless to talk about how drivers should behave on this channel.
I don't know about the hi-vis. I had a tradie come up to me in a carpark to thank me for wearing high-vis. Said he wished more cyclists realised it helped to make them more visible. I wear high-vis all the time and the only thing I think people think is that I am an old granny riding a bike.
In all the cyclling I have done over 4 decades and on 3 continents, I have never had an incident with a motorist that was looking me in the face. Mainly because we are travelling in the same direction and (IMO) the motorist is only aggresive when it is being "challenged" for it's ownership of the lane. From my first reading of this study I wondered about it's relavance in real world riding situations.
Perhaps a video testing various hacks forward slash bodges throughout the years? Cheers everyone
2:59 What a beautiful backdrop
#captioncompetition: Remco was hands-down the strongest rider in this years Belgian National Championship.
Van Aert looked insanely strong too. Even though the race didn't go his way.
😂
A lot of the attitude will be country & culture-specific. As a New Zealander living in Malmo, Sweden, a measure of difference is no-one says, Oh, so you're a cyclist, when you arrive at work, the library, someone's house...It's normalised. It wasn't always the case, and neither was it the Netherlands where Mark Limb was visiting until the 1970s. Infrastructure and safety gear help, but what was required in the Netherlands and in Malmo was a shift in culture.
I have been cycling regularly for about 15+ years, starting pretty late in life. I tend to ride solo. I live in a part of the US where cycling is not a big time activity. Over the course of time, I’ve developed my riding philosophy: Ride roads that have well defined shoulders, ride on roads and streets that are not heavily traveled, use flashing lights front and back, avoid busy intersections, make use of any bike lanes. I think some cyclists have a feeling of entitlement, and tend to be rude in their own way. We need to be conscious of the fact that no matter how fast we can go, we are probably slower than the prevailing traffic, and that can cause problems. I try to be a courteous rider. Sometimes acknowledging a driver’s positive action with a wave, I think, can show them you appreciate their attention. I’ve found that most drivers are pretty nice to me, although I have had some that weren’t (never had anything thrown at me, etc.). In the end, a driver should never behave in a way that could cause harm, even if the situation is frustrating to them.
It's not very scientific, but I feel that since I have started using bright lights fore and aft, day and night, that drivers are giving me more room. And even more, dare I say it, respect.
I've noticed the same. I also attached reflectors to my panniers and noticed drivers respect me more after that too. But I don't wear anything different from what I was planning to wear that day anyway. I think visibility equipment works best when it's on your bike, not your person.
I also have cameras built into m bike's lights, so I can report motorist stupidity whenever it happens. It doesn't help me while I'm on my ride, but it does keep me from reaching for my bike lock when a motorist intentionally tries to harass me, since I know I can just report them later.
I've seen enough to say 'Never hit the road without your helmet!'
Sometimes I wear a helmet, sometimes not. It depends on the ride I am planning. I do feel that wearing a helmet de-humanizes me to the extent that it puts a barrier between me and the world. I like to interact with people when I am out, just to smile or acknowledge people, or to exchange a friendly word. I think a helmet gets in the way of that. I do attract more negative attention wearing a helmet, but then I also attract more negative attention if I am on my road bike as opposed to trundling to the shops on my hybrid. The cycling infrastructure is very poor where I live, so I am careful about when and where I ride, but I will say that sometimes I am pleasantly surprised by the courtesy shown me by drivers.
The other day I visited the botanical gardens at RHS Wisley by bike. Annoyingly I forgot a change of shorts and so was walking around in normal everyday clothes + my lycra shorts. When crossing a footbridge a mother called out at her kid on the other side to "stop and let the cyclist go past"! I almost turned around to see what numpty was riding a bike in the gardens! It was a perfectly friendly interaction but not one I was expecting on foot, without a bike, a helmet or a high vis jacket in sight. Just a pair of lycra shorts was enough for the mother to instinctively categorise me first and foremost as a "cyclist" not just another person. Hardly 'dehumanization' but definitely a mild case of 'othering'.
Si's suggestion of other countries has a drawback; countries like the Netherlands, where cycling is normalized, tend to have very low rates of helmet use. And perhaps this shows a broader problem with the study; the countries with high helmet use happen to also be the countries with drivers who are careless or worse with cyclists.
There is a cargo bike for transporting every instrument in a symphony orchestra. The only people that might need help are the percussion, not just lots of instruments but timpani are quite bulky.
I know this because I was considering this in rehearsals before buying mine to transport my cello.
In Minnesota, USA, it has just been made LEGAL, for cyclists to go through stops, WITHOUT stopping.
6 weeks ago I had a car turn in front of me when they didn't see me.
I was left with a long list of injuries including a fracture at the base of my skull.
My helmet is absolutely totalled and took all the impact to my head.I may not ride again this year but if that had been my skull instead of the helmet I wouldn't be here.
Every medical professional I spoke to said the helmet saved my life so I'd rather wear one than not just to fit in
My sentiment exactly, no helmet no ride. Best wishes for a speedy and full recovery 🙂
@alexhadfield657 my thoughts exactly. Thank you.
It will be a full recovery just not speedy
Most of my local vehicle drivers are quite considerate of space for me when i am cycling. There seems to be the idea that more cyclists are not following the rules of the road, and that seems to be the reason for some driver irritation. Apart from a few kids locally not following road rules, a higher proportion of drivers are ignoring the rules, mostly speeding, by a lot, or overtaking on bends when they shouldn't. Don't want bikes in your way protest your local city government for bike lanes! Or just realize that anything that is in the road using the road whether a car a van a bike a tractor or a horse is TRAFFIC and you're waiting for traffic! I move out of the way to pull out lanes often when the road is one lane each way and there is traffic behind me, as soon as i see a safe pull over spot i will. But also when there is no space to pull over i have taken/maintained the lane (and some places have signs up that you can for those that don't know) on bad bends for my safety and for those behind me trying to get around a bend on a line they shouldn't be crossing. BUT nothing is more dehumanizing than people driving around protected in a big tin box, but that also need a big fluffy pillow to come out of their steering to protect them if they get in an accident, but we don't need helmets? lol I am jesting of course for irony on the last one just like safety measures need to be in place in your car they should also be on our head while cycling. Drew.
Simon filming the ‘dehumanisation section’ in a run down squat really complemented the subject matter.
I'm never human on my bike when I drop my wattage bazooka..... No one can understand how someone can produce so few watts. 😅.
I was brought up to always wear my helmet put on the bike and teach my kids that.
interesting explanation and nuance from the study author that I hadn't heard in other coverage. My takeaway is that while I'm still not sure that the finding as a whole isn't just bogus, that people didn't just pick a stupid survey choice to a bad question, it definitely seems impossible to apply outside of Australia. If you give 5 outlines of people in different clothes and require picking one as "less human", I don't see how the conclusion can be that the choice actually means that the person thinks that one is in fact less human
Very important issue.
Reminds me of a study done in the United Kingdom, which showed that a male cyclist wearing a helmet and hi vis was far more likely to be close passed by a car than a female wearing no helmet.
The safest cyclist on that survey was a male, wearing a fake police hi vis jacket, funnily enough.
When I was hit by a car two years ago, while cycling home, with a helmet, hi vis and lights, I was thrown in the air, but got lucky, didn't break anything.
The next day, I went for a cycle (on another bike) and noticed my helmet was broken.
Dont remember hitting my head, but that helmet saved my life.
Bikes are always smaller in photos, unless it's a really big photo
Away from urban environments the biggest risk is being hit from behind. My friend and I, both experienced drivers as well as occasional cyclists, instinctively and frequently look behind to check for cars. It allows for early eye contact as well as making space for them to pass. The eye contact negates the "othering" mentioned in the interview.
That study wasn't "science" and shouldn't be treated with any seriousness.
When you ask someone "Which of these looks less human?" there is an inherent bias and you're leading the person answering the question. Doing some study about "dehumanization" and then telling the respondants that one of the pictures is less human that another assumes that this thing you're studying is going on. That question doesn't allow the person responding to say they all look human. Intentional or not, that question is biased towards confirming a theory.
Then, spreading the story in the cycling community where people are already pre-disposed towards an us-vs-them mentality with motorists...presto! attention and confirmation.
In 150km, I’d hope I’d pass close enough to a bike shop to buy a new tyre 😬
Zigart and Pogacar did the double in the time trial, but not the road race. Zigart was second in the women's road race. Urska Pintar won.
Looks like Si was doing some renovations just before the interview. Love the content. Thanks guys.
Renovations...? Apparently it's called shabby chic 👀
It's either renovations, or Si has shown an image of his torture chamber?
We call these "lost places" over here 🤣
Did Si do the interview from the dungeon of GCN mega base?
I don't care what other drivers/travelers think, nor do I care whether helmets are required or not in my region, I'm definitely still wearing my helmet. I've had friends whose lives were saved by their helmets and were able to survive horrible crashes with broken arms, ribs, clavicles, and a cracked destroyed helmet, but no neck or head injuries. I've also had to say goodbye to two friends who did not wear helmets and would have survived with proper head gear for road or mountain biking. None of these accidents involved any motorists or non-cyclists. I'm wearing mine.
We clearly need to add hair to bike helmets
A helmet is mostly there to protect your head when you fall or crash yourself, but it will also help you if a car crashes into you and lower speed. I will never not wear a helmet when cycling because concussions are awful and brain injury is much worse, and a tiny little mistake on your own or by someone else can cause you to fall and hit your head.
helmets don't prevent concussions or brain injuries. in many cases they only worsen the effects
Well said 🙌
@@axelmogrhow.. why... In what way can they worsen the effect?
The only explanation I can think of is that wearing a helmet increases the risk of brain injury by decreasing the risk of death, but that's still a stretch
@@TheTuxani think of your head as an egg; the yolk being your brain. put the egg in a protective casing and drop it. at worst the egg will break and at best the contents will get all scrambled up inside the shell. apply this analogy to your head in a helmet
or in case you dont like this analogy there are several studies that prove helmets in sports such as boxing, rugby and american football are next to useless in preventing concussions or severe head injury and in the case of soft headgear may even aggravate the effects. google it
@@axelmogr But wouldn't the egg be more likely to break without the protective casing, thereby spilling the yolk all over the place? The times I tried the experiment in school, the egg with a helmet (they actually had an egg-sized bike helmet specifically for this experiment) survived a fall from a far far greater height than the ones without
As for the sports helmets I also seem to remember some studies showing that the number of brain injuries didn't decrease when helmets were worn. But I don't think they accounted for the sport adapting by being more physical/violent. As for the soft helmets I think that sounds plausible. If the user is willing to take the same (perceived) risk, and the helmets perceived safety is greater than their actual safety, more brain injuries would be the result.
But I still believe that a helmet protects against brain injuries, all else being equal (ie not taking a higher risk/going faster/ hit harder because of the helmet)
Kudos to Simon for conducting the interview in a medieval dungeon.😂
This is one of the reasons I do mostly gravel riding now days. I have been hit 2 times by cars (while commuting to and from work in a big city) and feel so much safer on separate biking trails and gravel/dirt roads.
Unfortunately to feel safe I have to take a lot of ownership of my space on the road. I'm a tall and athletic male so for me it's not as bad since I know I can defend myself if need be. Now, I feel for everyone else on the road who doesn't have that privilige and I certainly wish it wasn't like that even for me. Kind of stops me from recommending cycling to certain people since I already know they would hate the pressure that car drivers put on us. Especially if you are a slower or just more casual rider it can be quite overwhelming. Ultimately many car drivers tend to get mad at whatever is in front of them that they perceive to be slowing them down. Even if their overall trip isn't affected by it. Personally I don't think we'll get drivers to change but people adapt to their environment. Which means we should work on that. Better infrastructure, public transport and improved city planning will bring the change, I believe. In the meantime we can also do our part as cyclists to be kind and cooperative with other road users and try to fill in the gaps where others might be inattentive or uncaring. I know it's not perfect but we can at least bring something to the table that we'd like to see in others as well.
Agree…..being kind, helpful and aware of drivers too will work…..they will remember the helpful cyclist…..here’s hoping anyway…
#Captioncompetition : Remco Evenepoel is so good he can beat the rest of the peloton with his hands tied behind his back.
There are two distinctive types of risk relating to motorist on the road when cycling: 1. Harassment and 2. Being hit by a driver who fails to see you. Unless, the driver who dehumanizes you and harasses you is a true psychopath who tries to run you off the road (I know that does happen), the second type of risk is far more dangerous than the first. For that reason, I consider that adopting measures that may prevent the second risk from materializing is more important than the fact that they may cause someone to harass you. However, I hope that this remains a personal decision that does not get legislated on, one way or another.
Humanising people who cycle is what the campaign i am part of - More Than A Cyclist is focused on - it would be fantastic to have you and the GCN community engaged with us.
Dan… “I’m like a kid at Christmas this time of year”. Sums up exactly how I feel too. Only other race I get this excited about is Roubaix. Can’t wait!
I remember a “sub-Bodge” back from Lasty’s days but Dan goes with “bodge^5”
I choose to wear a helmet for my own safety, not because I am "told" to or feel pressure to. Most of my negative interactions out on the roads (in London) are with other cyclists being dangerous, jumping lights, not paying attention etc. I can't say the survey in any way supports anything I have experienced on the roads. As for cycling not being dangerous.... OK, I agree, but it has inherent dangers. Fall over walking at 3mph, graze your knee, maybe fracture your wrist. Fall off a bike at 15mph, it hurts a lot more, and having products available to help minimise those injuries is a good thing surely.
Great video. I have never used a helmet since getting into road bikes and in my experience it's always the helmet-wearing, high-visibility vest riders causing trouble. Blocking bike lanes whilst going slow, swinging wide into turns, harassing car drivers in the absence of bike lanes, etc. These things give people a sense of false safety and even worse, a sense of entitlement and victimhood. Life is better if you assume total responsibility for the risk you are taking everytime you go out there to ride your bike; it aint just you out there and human stupidity is to be expected and accounted for at all times. Helmetless is the only way to go
Until you fall off and have a life changing brain injury and spend the rest of your life wishing you’d worn a helmet …
Even the gentleman in the interview about dehumanization said that the danger occurs when cyclists interact with motor vehicles. This is like those frustrating headlines that say things like “Cyclist killed when struck. By car.” While that may be strictly true, the issue is the behavior of the people in co tell if those cars. As cyclists and road safety advocates, it is essential for us to humanize the drivers by holding them responsible, and not simply saying that “a car hit a cyclist.” No: A person hit that cyclist with their car.
Hey GCN. Thanks for all your very informing and inspiring videos! 🙏🏻 Can you please make a video about RED-S (Relative Energy Deficiency in Sports). I think more athletes should know about it, it’s impact, it’s risks etc. I were tired for a long time, however I got 9 hours of sleep every night. Then, after almost an half year, i found out that I didn’t fuel properly, in the hunt for a lean body. So I think it’s a very important topic to inform about :-)
Based on thinking about all of this quite a lot over a few years, and from the notions of others, and probably that same background study the Australian was getting at, there are a few clear take aways that I reinforce with myself often. I think of bike helmets as basically useless and more than that saddled with many negatives for safety and outcomes. I never wear them, no matter what I'm using the bikes for one any given day. But besides that, yes indeed there are the things about perceptions as you discussed which I've heard before and which I feel is part of the cause and effect for interactions with drivers on the road. It's well known for instance that drivers will pass closer to cyclists when they wear helmets and likely as well for the "less than human" theory, any combination of competition-like road cycling gear will only be on the same page as the helmets for effect. I think what you get with it is a more dangerous situation in return mostly for the image of the competitive road cyclist, which is a bad deal for us. As the Australian was discussing, yes indeed "normalization" is important. Likewise for not always making it appear as if it's dangerous when it's not, not always making it seem like a sport, when it's not always a sport or done like a sport. You don't get greater numbers of people on bikes when the image is used against that, when they see it as something wildly unrelatable or dangerous. Helmets are one of the key things which works against that. It's not just the mandating in places like the Australian states, but also how many people have them on, how the state propagates on them, how much they're emphasized compared to responsible driving, and bike infrastructure.
Where I live, decent quality generic brand, not high quality famous brand helmets are expensive. I've not yet been able to buy one despite being hit by cars and motorcyclists 4 times in less than 2 years. MIPS helmets are a luxury reserved for the high income.
Dan : " I've never seen a matching shoes and chain combo before"
Too many of the rest of us: " May I present my black shoes and filthy wet lubed chain, for your consideration."
I bike, I walk, I drive a car, and I ride a motorbike. The notion of being blatantly ignorant of anyone else is vehicle agnostic. I see transportation as a 'dance' all with different types of partners (vehicles). It just comes down to respect.
In regards to cycling in the Netherlands - it's because anyone driving ALSO rides a bike, there's an outrageously high standard for driving, and bike are viewed as a means of transportation (not a recreational toy). I don't know what the atmosphere is like 'down-undaa' but here in the states bikes are still largely viewed as recreational toys and not a viable transportation option. Even within cities.
TDF is on the early AM hours here in the USA. Not likely to be watching live.
In the Netherlands cyclists don't suffer so much from dehuminazation, but more from dehumidification🙂
I think the team kits annoy car drivers....Best all in black and daybright lights so there's much less reason for them not to see you. And a yes for helmets as someone who in his youth got sparked out by a car on this RD350LC and slid down the road with a shower of sparks flying past the visor from the metal stud on it I realised that would have been my face instead on the tarmac....
"I believe social media is to blame.... Get involved socially with our media down below. "
Sorry to break the “Cycling Paradise” narrative for the Netherlands- at least for “roadies”. There is a bit of a war against roadies by non roadies. First it is good to understand that most people in the Netherlands use a bike at least from time to time in their lives as a basic utility. They do not identify as cyclists as happens in the uk. For this utility use there is no Lycra or helmet worn. A minority of people will also have a cycling hobby of which “wielrennen” (road cycling) is one form. This always features Lycra and helmets and in this guise the “wielrenner” (roadie) is different and looks different to other people that ride bikes.
Yes the cycling infrastructure is second to none there and it’s a wonderful place to get around by bike but there is a hatred of “wielrenners” (literally “wheel runners” or what we would call “roadies” in the uk) by some.
The problem is that wielrenners go much faster and often ride in groups. As the same infrastructure is shared this causes friction leading to rage incidents as well as the occasional accident. There are few opportunities for bikes to come into contact with cars but wielrenners are more likely to do so if given a chance so drivers (who may already dislike roadies from their own utility bike experiences) may behave in a hostile manner. This gets stoked up by media and social media so is not so different to what we’re familiar with except here the war is generally not with motorists.
The main difference is cyclists are not so much of a homogeneous group in the Netherlands as they are in the uk. It’s “the people” (many of whom ride bikes or e-bikes regularly) vs helmet and Lycra clad road cyclists. A very different culture to the uk.
I am a (helmetless) cyclist for close to thirty years now and i have to admit I still think it looks a little strange. In my experience of about 100.000km on a bike with most of it in city traffic. If you get picked off it's usually a crossing and there you are also a good target as a pedestrian. But no one recommends helmets there (yet). On the other occasions I could avoid collisions by just making my intentions of travel direction clear and if in any doubt then back down and see what the other guy is doing, because you will loose that fight regardless of the number of helmets.
Well and then there is things like ambitious cornering with road bikes on gravel, but that's of my own making and a helmet wouldn't have helped either. Would have needed elbow, shin and asspads.
For me it boils down to this: Since cyclists without helmets pose no increased danger to other people I say let everyone do as they please and that goes especially against the nanny state - thank god they still managed to keep their fingers off of that topic in germany.
Wholeheartedly agree. I think most accidents on the bike can be avoided with observation, common sense, and decisiveness. A lot of bike riders feel entitled to using the roads and get offended at the mere thought of having to account for what cars and pedestrians around you might do. No helmet or any piece of equipment will ever spare you from having to be acutely aware of your surroundings
Please explain “nanny state”? Perhaps all medicines should sold over the counter?
Just curious - what’s your position on motorcycle helmets and seat belts.
Every occur to you that the aftermath of a crash doesn’t just affect the vegetable on the tarmac…?
@@dominicbritt they could. Though the combination of medicines is hard to judge regarding side effects. But do you think that every cliff should have a warning sign and a hand rail just because you could fall to your death?
Swimming only allowed with a flotation device because you could drown? I don't think that an adult human being should have an "owner"/legal guardian=nanny state, that tells him how he should look after his own health.
I feel safer bike lanes & slowing traffic down will make cycling safer which in turn will encourage more folks to cycle making cyclists more common...ie the Netherlands. Plus educating all new drivers & older drivers as well, of course. 🙄
Some cyclists also need to exhibit better manners. Just saying. 😌
In my dreams I win a yellow GCN bottle and use it all summer as a mustard dispenser. 😀
#caption “when you don’t know where you are so you just celebrate”
I am a Brit who has just moved to NZ (Tauranga specifically). The cycle lanes here are the worst layout I’ve ever seen. They suddenly stop or get diverted 10m down a side street to wait at a crossing to return back to the main road. Designed completely the wrong way giving drivers the priority at all times. This leads us to cycle on the road and the amount of abuse we get is INSANE. Dangerous overtaking and people yelling at us through the windows makes the ride unpleasant to say the least. Very interesting study but I would not feel safe without my helmet.
I have worn a helmet since I was 16. Saw my friend, Adrian, get t-boned by a car. What a mess! Skull fracture, facial fractures. Have worn a helmet for 45 years. Most drivers are great, but all it takes is a cellphone distraction. Be safe fellow riders.
I can understand how an increased 'coolness factor' in road cyclists can contribute to the impression outlined in the study, in particular with regards to skinsuits and the enormous sunglasses Si loves to wear. It would be interesting to compare the perceived 'human' characteristic of a road cyclist with that of mountain bikers or other rides wearing casual clothes, not to mention motor cyclists in full leather suit and the driver of a large SUV. Surely any of those will loose some humanity compared to a casual pedestrian.
I agree entirely with Simon; social media is the go-to reason for the fall of societal order.
Half of my thinking when I got my indoor trainer was due to the agro I have had when out on the road. I don't need it to be honest. In fairness, I do find that if on my mountain bike commuting etc. then drivers are much better than if I'm on my road bike. So the study makes sense. All the on line stuff is also very threatening. It's sad, but a fact of life.
I do all I can to cycle the way I drive. respecting others and following the rules. As in set an example. I have no prejudices.
Trolling New Zealand perhaps, by playing a few bars of "Advance, Australia fair" then saying that it was the NZ national anthem 😊.
Ban private cars and then there will be no need to wear helmets, unless you’re racing or training fast.
And it makes sense that cyclists get seen as less human when wearing all the gear. I remember wanting to feel anonymous and less like myself when I used to have a road bike and I put on my helmet and sunglasses. And I’ve also been treated in a much more friendly fashion by drivers when I’ve been riding my upright Dutch bike with no helmet, and maybe a pair of casual sunglasses rather than sport ones. Maybe also a bobble hat in winter. I didn’t feel like that made much difference. Probably because most people are wearing a hat in cold months.
Certainly, it shouldn’t be ignored that the problem is idiots in control of motor vehicles. Some cyclists are idiots but a bike is less dangerous.
Yeah, that bodge of a bike seen on a train to Port Talbot is the norm around there. Cateye was probably nicked too.
Someone should make a compilation of Si blaming things on social media. It will be the GCN version of the Thanks Obama meme. I don't know if it's common in other countries, but we have our own version of that, which is called Wina Tuska(Tusk's Fault).