Vanessa was out of order for cutting the guy off explaining other miscarriages of justice related to nurses being wrongly convicted. It is actually very relevant to the topic. Vanessa is a terrible host and journalist.
My take on Letby case many holes in it case needs looking at. No sure on guilt or innocence. I'm a private detective. Expert witnesses all had links to NHS. Independent none NHS linked ones should of being recruited for the case from this country or else where in europe or North America Australia New Zealand. Basically countries that practice medicine with same standards as the UK.
I have looked at a lot of points raised, ie not all the deaths during the period were not included in the evidence and this was 50%, plus the confession from those notes after counselling should never been allowed in. Having had counselling I would be very unhappy for anyone to read the things I thought,this is one way that counsellors help you.
Even if you include the 9 additional cases to the 25 that were presented on the chart and assume LL was present for none of the 9, the likelihood of an incident occuring still increased by at least 600% when she turned up for her shifts over that 14 month period.
How do we explain hundreds of handover sheets found at her house and parents, mostly were for babies she wasn’t caring for. Some of them were found to be tissues thrown in bins by other nurses. These were rough notes that were confirmed to have been thrown away in bins. So Lucy was taking notes from bins……So many questions. What about Facebook searches of the deceased babies parents , she was stalking their pages regularly even on Christmas day!!! Lastly these babies didn’t die of natural causes it was air embolisms, over feeding and insulin poisoning. I’m sorry but she is not innocent and I don’t see her winning another appeal I hope they are investigating all the years she has been a nurse. Including her student years
@@JaneboG hi,having spent a long time in hospital and was on 15 minute checks there were lots of handovers, twice during this time it was spotted things that should have been done but missed I don't see how having handover sheets prove guilt,just due diligence in reading notes, as for her searches on the computer, I am unsure the time line of these, were they before or after her dismissal,like the notes used in court and this was after counselling, but will check.
@@dannylad1600 hi as far I can see her main job was working on this ward and if you look at the rota used in court it does not show all the shifts only the ones related to the deaths,statistics and percentages, do not prove guilty, all evidence should be balanced, if not a miscarriage of justice can happen. Note post office scandal
@@JaneboG Out of more than 2000 facebook searches, only 31 related to some of the babies ... can hardly be described as stalking. No baby died from insulin poisoning. The two babies allegedly poisoned with insulin suffered no ill effects and are still alive. Some very highly qualified people are saying that it's laughable to suggest that babies were killed by air embolism or over feeding.
unfortunately the appeal court does not work as they are marking their own homework... prosecution these days work on passion rather than evidence and this is what happened to Asta Jauskauskiene who was also found guilty of murder despite not even being at the murder which is not contested by the police and with absolutely no evidence during trial which connected her to the murder only fabricated evidence which if it was chalenged by the defence would have fallen apart...the poor mother of three was convicted of murder and is currently doing 24 years and yet is innocent...Cardiff university has worked on her case for four years and has not seen one bit of evidence which connects her to the crime....its a justice system on its knees.
It easy to fake evidence to get a conviction that what CPS do when they know they are losing a case they call in fake evidence to get a guilty verdict cps are scum just like the police
Unable to listen without interrupting is rude and disrespectful, but a horrid tactic used by some presenters these days to dilute someone else's point of view.
David Davies MP has taken up the case and after 3 months looking at everything, feels there's a strong case to appeal, I think he is also trying to visit her.
Apparently they only counted the deaths whilst she was on duty but there were more deaths when she wasn't on duty that have been shunted aside within the same time period so definitely not a clear cut case.
That's not true. There were 13 deaths in total in the time period that the case covers (June 2015 to June 2016). 7 deaths were included in the case. The other 6 deaths were not. She was on duty for all of the 6 deaths that she wasn't charged with. Every single one.
The host did not help the case of those who believe that Letby is guilty by repeatedly interrupting and policing the words of Owen Jones. Just let him talk! This is not a war. I believe the verdicts are correct, but I am not afraid to listen to those doubting some of the evidence. An unhelpful segment here. The host is clearly trying to force people to repeat her perspective.
The only evidence that there were any murders was from one "expert" retired who went touting for work as an expert on the trial who didn't even examine the babies. Other more eminent experts have since challenged these theories because that's what they were just theories. Let that sink in theres no actual evidence that these babies were intentionally harmed. Lucy was never seen doing anything untoward. However we do know that there was a problem with the plumbing and that raw sewage may have been in pipes above the unit. The unit has now been completely demolished and rebuilt. We do know that the unit was downgraded due to problems so that it no longer cared for the moat vulnerable babies.
How exactly does insulin get into a feed bag without the intention of harm? And how exactly does a baby get a liver injury severe enough to be compared to a car crash victim without the intention of harm? There was one single instance of a sewage problem. Hardly something that causes babies to collapse over the course of an entire year. And besides, many of the babies had no signs of infection anyway. And even those for which that wasn't the case, the specifics of the manner in which they collapsed is not symptomatic of infection.
TBH I don't know. All I do know is that I worked as a Registered Nurse (male btw) in the NHS many years ago and left to go into solo private practice because I could no longer stand the incessant bullying, lying and hypocrisy that I personally experienced. I worked on wards run by lesbian misandrist cliques, or departments wholly staffed by extended members of the same family and in one case all the staff were catholic and went to the same church. This was the best part of 40 years ago and I do wonder if anything has actually changed.
I've always wondered if it was a case she was incompetent when it counted so needed more support (especially in terms of mental health) and the Trust didn't want to see it as she turned up for work so filling a spot on the staffing rota, seemed to know what she was doing with the basics and on paper she ticked the boxes in terms of training courses. That is different than being guilty, that is a case of someone who shouldn't be in that area being left to sink because on a computer it makes staffing levels look better.
@KingBee24 and it was the same Drs that Lucys reported on a number of occasions about their bad practices first, and Managers agreed, it was only when the police got involved that Lucy was suddenly the problem, It's 100% a NHS cover up .
She also falsified numerous medical records to cover her arse as well as trying to implicate her supervisor and 'the new girl' as she called her and doctors. She is guilty.
Really id like to see Lucy letby totally outraged or going mental about being accused of this and that would help me think she could be innocent but at the moment from court reconstruction she seemed way chilled out about this
I think she is guilty, however, I think the hospital has attributed other excess deaths to her actions. Typical NHS. Also, she was bullied. Take note, this is what happens when you bully psychos!!
Stop interrupting people vanessa. So rude
Yes Vanessa, manners girl. I realise you're running the show. But for Chrissake stop being so bloody aggressive!
Vanessa was out of order for cutting the guy off explaining other miscarriages of justice related to nurses being wrongly convicted. It is actually very relevant to the topic. Vanessa is a terrible host and journalist.
She's a know it all..🤔
Would be better to hear a lot lesser from Vanessa... Bless her
Imagine losing your babies and then a corrupt bunch of scumbags use them to railroad someone into prison
That is the tragedy these families are enduring, if we believe opinions from more qualified professionals than those used in court.
Sally Clark is totally relevant here. Vanessa should not have brushed that point aside.
I rarely like listening to Owen Jones, but he was actually saying something I wanted to hear until he was shut down
No he wasn't
Watch again 😮
@@joshb7326 She repeatedly cut him off in a pedantic manner.
@@Musicienne-DAB1995 I've seen him do that to other people. It's just standard behaviour on this type of show
I think she's innocent
Any reason? Or you just like supporting baby killers?
What makes you say thatb
Not really a lot weight to "I think" tho is there
Me too
🤬
As a nurse I say she is probably innocent
Pffttt Vanessa... How about it's wanting the truth.
I thought this was dodgy
My take on Letby case many holes in it case needs looking at. No sure on guilt or innocence. I'm a private detective. Expert witnesses all had links to NHS. Independent none NHS linked ones should of being recruited for the case from this country or else where in europe or North America Australia New Zealand. Basically countries that practice medicine with same standards as the UK.
There's never been a single piece of credible evidence her. Scapegoat to cover hospital failings. The convictions should be quashed.
All circumstantial evidence. Nobody should be found guilty without actual proof
If she if eventually found innocent, this will send a pure message to the NHS trust.
I have looked at a lot of points raised, ie not all the deaths during the period were not included in the evidence and this was 50%, plus the confession from those notes after counselling should never been allowed in. Having had counselling I would be very unhappy for anyone to read the things I thought,this is one way that counsellors help you.
Even if you include the 9 additional cases to the 25 that were presented on the chart and assume LL was present for none of the 9, the likelihood of an incident occuring still increased by at least 600% when she turned up for her shifts over that 14 month period.
How do we explain hundreds of handover sheets found at her house and parents, mostly were for babies she wasn’t caring for. Some of them were found to be tissues thrown in bins by other nurses. These were rough notes that were confirmed to have been thrown away in bins. So Lucy was taking notes from bins……So many questions. What about Facebook searches of the deceased babies parents , she was stalking their pages regularly even on Christmas day!!!
Lastly these babies didn’t die of natural causes it was air embolisms, over feeding and insulin poisoning. I’m sorry but she is not innocent and I don’t see her winning another appeal I hope they are investigating all the years she has been a nurse. Including her student years
@@JaneboG hi,having spent a long time in hospital and was on 15 minute checks there were lots of handovers, twice during this time it was spotted things that should have been done but missed I don't see how having handover sheets prove guilt,just due diligence in reading notes, as for her searches on the computer, I am unsure the time line of these, were they before or after her dismissal,like the notes used in court and this was after counselling, but will check.
@@dannylad1600 hi as far I can see her main job was working on this ward and if you look at the rota used in court it does not show all the shifts only the ones related to the deaths,statistics and percentages, do not prove guilty, all evidence should be balanced, if not a miscarriage of justice can happen. Note post office scandal
@@JaneboG Out of more than 2000 facebook searches, only 31 related to some of the babies ... can hardly be described as stalking. No baby died from insulin poisoning. The two babies allegedly poisoned with insulin suffered no ill effects and are still alive. Some very highly qualified people are saying that it's laughable to suggest that babies were killed by air embolism or over feeding.
unfortunately the appeal court does not work as they are marking their own homework... prosecution these days work on passion rather than evidence and this is what happened to Asta Jauskauskiene who was also found guilty of murder despite not even being at the murder which is not contested by the police and with absolutely no evidence during trial which connected her to the murder only fabricated evidence which if it was chalenged by the defence would have fallen apart...the poor mother of three was convicted of murder and is currently doing 24 years and yet is innocent...Cardiff university has worked on her case for four years and has not seen one bit of evidence which connects her to the crime....its a justice system on its knees.
She can do whatever she wants. Every sensible person knows that she is a serial baby killer and that she is guilty.
Would any of her supporters trust her with their child.i wouldn't.
I would
@connorwood8527 sure you would. Only saying that because it will never happen.
No more than anyone would trust you. Same principle!
@@marinka424 but would they really trust her .doubt it.
@@marinka424 we shall find out soon enough the outcome of this next appeal.
Listen to all the available transcripts, she is guilty. I wish this was a miscarriage of justice but there is simply too much evidence against her.
It easy to fake evidence to get a conviction that what CPS do when they know they are losing a case they call in fake evidence to get a guilty verdict cps are scum just like the police
We can't, they're not in the public domain. Please don't say "Listen to Crime Scene 2 Courtroom" FFS !
@@KingBee24 The key word being 'available', where do you think he and everyone else got the information
@@leanne9554 He's reading out the prosecution summary ... selectively ... and with a heavy bias. He had her down as guilty before the trial started !
Vanessa is just so byest these days! Shameful
I agree she is.
That's not a word. Do you mean "biased"?
Stop trying to sound clever if you can't even spell biased
Unable to listen without interrupting is rude and disrespectful, but a horrid tactic used by some presenters these days to dilute someone else's point of view.
she wasnt on the jury was she??
David Davies MP has taken up the case and after 3 months looking at everything, feels there's a strong case to appeal, I think he is also trying to visit her.
They had to find someone to blame
Owen Jones as usual speaking out of his ....
Apparently they only counted the deaths whilst she was on duty but there were more deaths when she wasn't on duty that have been shunted aside within the same time period so definitely not a clear cut case.
That's not true. There were 13 deaths in total in the time period that the case covers (June 2015 to June 2016). 7 deaths were included in the case. The other 6 deaths were not. She was on duty for all of the 6 deaths that she wasn't charged with. Every single one.
People get tittelated by true crime....yeah, they get really enthusiastic every time the press goes on about their "killer nurse" fantasy.
Good god just imagine if she is innocent, how would the country apologise to her ? Look at the Guildford 4, 15 years in prison .
Dont worry, she's not.
speaking over other people
The host did not help the case of those who believe that Letby is guilty by repeatedly interrupting and policing the words of Owen Jones. Just let him talk! This is not a war. I believe the verdicts are correct, but I am not afraid to listen to those doubting some of the evidence. An unhelpful segment here. The host is clearly trying to force people to repeat her perspective.
The only evidence that there were any murders was from one "expert" retired who went touting for work as an expert on the trial who didn't even examine the babies. Other more eminent experts have since challenged these theories because that's what they were just theories. Let that sink in theres no actual evidence that these babies were intentionally harmed. Lucy was never seen doing anything untoward. However we do know that there was a problem with the plumbing and that raw sewage may have been in pipes above the unit. The unit has now been completely demolished and rebuilt. We do know that the unit was downgraded due to problems so that it no longer cared for the moat vulnerable babies.
How exactly does insulin get into a feed bag without the intention of harm? And how exactly does a baby get a liver injury severe enough to be compared to a car crash victim without the intention of harm?
There was one single instance of a sewage problem. Hardly something that causes babies to collapse over the course of an entire year. And besides, many of the babies had no signs of infection anyway. And even those for which that wasn't the case, the specifics of the manner in which they collapsed is not symptomatic of infection.
TBH I don't know. All I do know is that I worked as a Registered Nurse (male btw) in the NHS many years ago and left to go into solo private practice because I could no longer stand the incessant bullying, lying and hypocrisy that I personally experienced. I worked on wards run by lesbian misandrist cliques, or departments wholly staffed by extended members of the same family and in one case all the staff were catholic and went to the same church.
This was the best part of 40 years ago and I do wonder if anything has actually changed.
I've always wondered if it was a case she was incompetent when it counted so needed more support (especially in terms of mental health) and the Trust didn't want to see it as she turned up for work so filling a spot on the staffing rota, seemed to know what she was doing with the basics and on paper she ticked the boxes in terms of training courses.
That is different than being guilty, that is a case of someone who shouldn't be in that area being left to sink because on a computer it makes staffing levels look better.
Don't forget that the senior doctors were hardly there.
@KingBee24 and it was the same Drs that Lucys reported on a number of occasions about their bad practices first, and Managers agreed, it was only when the police got involved that Lucy was suddenly the problem, It's 100% a NHS cover up .
She was the one raising concerns and reporting things that were clearly very wrong. Let that sink in.
She also falsified numerous medical records to cover her arse as well as trying to implicate her supervisor and 'the new girl' as she called her and doctors. She is guilty.
Really id like to see Lucy letby totally outraged or going mental about being accused of this and that would help me think she could be innocent but at the moment from court reconstruction she seemed way chilled out about this
We all react in different ways ... and she was on medication.
@KingBee24 not when she was arrested.
@@melgrant7404She had been arrested before the clip always shown on TV etc so wasant such a shock- she had been arrested 3 times in total.
@@70sstreetracer so how do you know how she reacted on the occasions the arrest wasn't filmed then.
@@melgrant7404 Yeah shame they didant show the other arrests to see.
I think she is guilty, however, I think the hospital has attributed other excess deaths to her actions. Typical NHS.
Also, she was bullied. Take note, this is what happens when you bully psychos!!
I think she totally THRIVES on the publicity, the attention. She's an attention seeker.
Dont talk crap
Leave Vanessa alone
@@connorwood8527 HA ha ha !!