I feel like I need to finally watch this show, love all the clips, and when there's comments from 8 years ago and one week ago it obviously has something worth seeing.
You know, the way that things unfolded here kind of makes me understand why Joan wasn't content to just roll with what the guys wanted to do later, when her first account fell into her lap in later seasons. Much like Peggy, she was given an opportunity here, and she excelled at it. But unlike Peggy, her skill was not rewarded. She was shuffled back to her old place, because she didn't have someone like Don or Freddy on her side who believed in her. So when her next chance to break out came along, she wasn't going to take any chances, and that comment Peggy threw out about working her way up probably rubbed Joan the wrong way because she knew that Peggy's talent isn't the only reason she was able to get herself started.
Joan had excelled at navigating the ad agency world, as an attractive woman who was in charge of the other girls, and could handle the men as well. When the world started rapidly changing for women, Joan was older than Peggy and had a harder time adjusting to the new parameters. Peggy was always a bit of a rebel just beneath the surface and when opportunities presented, Peggy was often willing to wade into uncharted waters.
What happened to Joan with the job still happens now. I suggested loads of ways to improve the company I work for in lockdown, got given temporary social media management as a result (with no pay raise of course and I had to keep up with my other work at the same time). They kept postponing when my trial ended so I was giving them free work for almost half a year. In that time, I doubled the sales and got us on track, but then they hired a new man (without telling me) who was getting paid double my salary to do half the work, who had no concept of the work I was doing and had to have me keep telling him what to do. And I had nothing to show for it. Not even a thank you. I even had to ask if I was allowed to include my 5 months of hard work on my cv. At the same company, I learnt the men doing the same job as me were getting paid 10k more than me. By the time I went to complain, he had left and they hired two more women workers who got paid the same as me. The answer to unequal pay clearly. Believe it or not, this company’s CEO is a woman as well 🤦♀️
That's horrible, and not surprising at all. Hope you get promoted or move on to a better place where they pay you what you're worth and facilitate free expression of grievances.
@@ninawestlake5005 I think there is also a factor that the actors play in a way to make their emotions as easy as possible for the audience to read, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the characters themselves are as easy to read for the other characters in the story. A good example is that from an audience perspective you can guess that Sal is in the closet almost immediately, but the other characters never pick up on it until it is actually revealed.
Religious people tend to think they have the moral authority to tell people how to live. So, if he saw her upset, he didn't care because he " knew" he was telling her the right way to live
Peggy literally gave away her child and he could sense that great sin weighing on her. Let's be real here, Peggy did a horrible thing and the priest was trying to help.
@@cedantarmalabori861 a horrible thing? she wasn't ready to be a mother, did you see her have absolutely no connection to the child? if she kept it, that would not be a happy ending for either of them. at least the kid has a chance to be put into a loving family.
Bras straps can dig in, and if you carry extra weight or as you get older it leaves an indent. So it could represent, the age factor or the confines of the bra due social norms. The bras were stiff, pointy and non stretchy straps, horrible things.
I read that shot more as a commentary on the cons of Joan's voluptuous chest, which bring her so much attention and interest and helps her get what she wants around the office, but has downsides - ie: the heavy weight of such large breasts hurts her shoulders as we can see by the straps leaving indentations in them. I'm sure in moments like that Joan sometimes wishes she wasn't so busty but also believes that without these physical assets she wouldn't be able to wield quite as much power and influence with the men she works with.
If Joan really enjoyed the work in television department, she should have gone to Burt, Roger. It's useless to think this man would appreciate someone doing better job than him. That's what Peggy did, she wanted a cabin to herself, she went to Roger. In corporate world one should know who has the power to give you what you want and you have to ask for it.
Yes but going to Rodger would have raised peoples doubts because of their sexual relationship. The only way she could have been rewarded was through her work, which didn’t happen unfortunately. She’s stuck between a rock and a hard place unfortunately, even though she deserved the position.
@@yunleung2631 No one ever goes to Cooper unless it's really important. In season 1, Don was having an affair with Rachel, a daughter of a client/client herself. After it ended and the father called Cooper, Cooper's response was: "Why is this man calling me?" It was his job to handle affairs like this. And Roger was the person that told Harry to replace Joan because as he put it, "at best, her attentions are divided." which is a fair argument on the surface.
@@daffo595 seriously though, Roger would have scoffed at the idea which would have made Joan very angry and then there would be makeup sex involved. Ugghh, so hard to be a 10/10 like our Joannie.
I quit this series because it was way too much i can handle. All these small acting and comments from male colleagues to depreciate Joqn qnd Peggy works. ...make me fussing! As a carrier woman, it’s unbelievable what women have to endure at that period and they are bringing value to the company! But i have to say that things have not change on today upper management where it’s still a boy’s club.
@@eat_a_dick_trudeau First, there is no correlation between job performance and watching a television show. You're making a comparison that's totally illogical. Second, everyone is different, with different strengths and weaknesses. You can be very strong in one area but not in another. You're judging someone you don't even know. She was honest, and you judged her because of her honesty. The problem isn't with her, the problem is that you lack any understanding of people.
Anyone have an idea of the significance of Joan at the end? Sitting at the edge of her bed, moving down the strap and rubbing it. I have an incling but not sure.
A comment on what a lot of women went through, on a daily basis in that era (it was proper for even the skinniest woman to wear a girdle). For both the standards of propriety and beauty.
It’s a metaphor for the restrictions that comes with being Joan. She wasn’t considered for the broadcast roles because of the confines of being a woman in the 60’s. The veneer of looking perfect harms her (hence her rubbing where it aches)
"Someone people think is dead, is not." After the scene when Joan mentions it to Greg, the aftermath of the party with the camera panning "Don". I.. just love the all the allusions, especially to Don's past this whole episode.
I always wonder if she told them she wanted the job or if she assumed they would offer it to her. She wasn't naive about how things worked in that office. You would think she would have spoken up. Without that, they would only see her as the very efficient office manager ( or whatever her position was). Maybe she should have changed how she dressed to make them see her differently. I don't know. It just wasn't right. She had obviously proved herself. Harry should have seen that. Very sad. I'm talking in circles. I will stop now.
Gawd I hated the priest- storyline. It must be hard to work in the shadow of his father forrest gump, he gave his best but the character was a pain in the az
Joan undercut her boss right in front of a client, selling "as the world turns" over "sea and ski". The same sin Pete performs on Don twice. She didn't discuss it beforehand.
Poor Joan, in fact poor any career woman in the 60s so much to sacrifice back then, today's feminists have no idea what woman back then and to go through.
MissBelice what bit didn't I understand? Joan was screwed over royally! Many women in those days either took the Betty route or the Joan/Peggy route in life, many sacrificed having families because you couldn't do both in those days, Joan strives to earn the respect her male counterparts unquestionably get, the men can have families and careers and get a pat on the back or a promotion, I was just pointing out facts that did happen back then, it is slightly easier today, but Joan's generation paved the way forward, I 100% respect that as a male so please tell me what I didn't understand?
Or I don't know... stop sexual harassment in the workplace which still happens todayy Or get equal pay Or be safe while walking alone outside Or stop having men thinking they know what's best for women (u know, guys like Jay Jay). Of fucking course we have it better then women in the sixties...but why stop there if there is still more to do??
I feel like I need to finally watch this show, love all the clips, and when there's comments from 8 years ago and one week ago it obviously has something worth seeing.
you do
Rodrigo Castillo it's done! Just ordered the box set for all the BTS content, eagerly awaiting its arrival...
Steve Sisko enjoy!! Don’t rush it haha
@@siskothekid4620 You won't regret it!
C.C. Ekeke you're right! Loving it. Hard to not watch straight. No sleep, no eat, no outside...
You know, the way that things unfolded here kind of makes me understand why Joan wasn't content to just roll with what the guys wanted to do later, when her first account fell into her lap in later seasons. Much like Peggy, she was given an opportunity here, and she excelled at it. But unlike Peggy, her skill was not rewarded. She was shuffled back to her old place, because she didn't have someone like Don or Freddy on her side who believed in her. So when her next chance to break out came along, she wasn't going to take any chances, and that comment Peggy threw out about working her way up probably rubbed Joan the wrong way because she knew that Peggy's talent isn't the only reason she was able to get herself started.
It's ironic that Peggy's skill was recognized because she wasn't attractive.
Joan had excelled at navigating the ad agency world, as an attractive woman who was in charge of the other girls, and could handle the men as well. When the world started rapidly changing for women, Joan was older than Peggy and had a harder time adjusting to the new parameters. Peggy was always a bit of a rebel just beneath the surface and when opportunities presented, Peggy was often willing to wade into uncharted waters.
What happened to Joan with the job still happens now. I suggested loads of ways to improve the company I work for in lockdown, got given temporary social media management as a result (with no pay raise of course and I had to keep up with my other work at the same time). They kept postponing when my trial ended so I was giving them free work for almost half a year. In that time, I doubled the sales and got us on track, but then they hired a new man (without telling me) who was getting paid double my salary to do half the work, who had no concept of the work I was doing and had to have me keep telling him what to do. And I had nothing to show for it. Not even a thank you. I even had to ask if I was allowed to include my 5 months of hard work on my cv.
At the same company, I learnt the men doing the same job as me were getting paid 10k more than me. By the time I went to complain, he had left and they hired two more women workers who got paid the same as me. The answer to unequal pay clearly.
Believe it or not, this company’s CEO is a woman as well 🤦♀️
That's horrible, and not surprising at all. Hope you get promoted or move on to a better place where they pay you what you're worth and facilitate free expression of grievances.
@@aanyakaif4277 thank you, I hope so too
Sorry girl ..
That's shit what's happened with you..
Hope you got a better place to work.. where it's appreciated ..
@@prathyusha5393 thank you, me too. I keep looking for new opportunities but obviously in a Covid 19 world I just feel grateful to have one x
@@GinervaWeasleyPotter Aah!.. I understand .... All the luck to you!
1:17 how can a man who advertises for a living not read her expression at all. he's acting like he has NO CLUE how upset she is
Oh he sees alright. He chose to ignore. As most people...men especially.
It's called, "not caring"...
@@ninawestlake5005 I think there is also a factor that the actors play in a way to make their emotions as easy as possible for the audience to read, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the characters themselves are as easy to read for the other characters in the story.
A good example is that from an audience perspective you can guess that Sal is in the closet almost immediately, but the other characters never pick up on it until it is actually revealed.
Religious people tend to think they have the moral authority to tell people how to live.
So, if he saw her upset, he didn't care because he " knew" he was telling her the right way to live
@@u4tiwasdead To be fair, the office not realizing he's closeted is more just oblivious 1960's heteronormality.
I love the detail of the bra mark on Joan’s shoulder at the end as a metaphor for a world where she’s constrained in a role that does not fit her.
or that she is clearly wearing bras that are too small for her, which honestly was obvious from the first episode
I see the connection here. Men screwing with their lives: Joan's Professional and Peggy's Personal
This makes sense. I used to think Father is just being kind here but actually he's intruding Peggy's private life.
@@robyn5434 I think he meant well, for what it's worth.
Priest is a good guy.
Peggy literally gave away her child and he could sense that great sin weighing on her. Let's be real here, Peggy did a horrible thing and the priest was trying to help.
@@cedantarmalabori861 a horrible thing? she wasn't ready to be a mother, did you see her have absolutely no connection to the child? if she kept it, that would not be a happy ending for either of them. at least the kid has a chance to be put into a loving family.
Joan looked so pissed
Oh she was but she never rocked the boat
By this short clip alone we see the unfairness women put up with at that period. Well, even now..
yes this clip is not fiction
Watch out everyone! White knight on patrol!
@@WhatAHorribleNight so by saying something truthful in support of women hes suddenly a white knight?
ok.. so what does that make you? an incel?
@@kimidanger1150 you know what? I wish The Handmaid's Tale were real so I could put a mask on you and shut you the hell up! Men are talking here!
@@WhatAHorribleNight damn you really got em w that one
aw, poor Joanie... :(
Bras straps can dig in, and if you carry extra weight or as you get older it leaves an indent.
So it could represent, the age factor or the confines of the bra due social norms.
The bras were stiff, pointy and non stretchy straps, horrible things.
also the metaphoical weight on her shoulders
I read that shot more as a commentary on the cons of Joan's voluptuous chest, which bring her so much attention and interest and helps her get what she wants around the office, but has downsides - ie: the heavy weight of such large breasts hurts her shoulders as we can see by the straps leaving indentations in them. I'm sure in moments like that Joan sometimes wishes she wasn't so busty but also believes that without these physical assets she wouldn't be able to wield quite as much power and influence with the men she works with.
@@Lovrofthearts but they didn't get her that job. I think they limit her because of how the men see her.
If Joan really enjoyed the work in television department, she should have gone to Burt, Roger. It's useless to think this man would appreciate someone doing better job than him. That's what Peggy did, she wanted a cabin to herself, she went to Roger. In corporate world one should know who has the power to give you what you want and you have to ask for it.
Yes but going to Rodger would have raised peoples doubts because of their sexual relationship. The only way she could have been rewarded was through her work, which didn’t happen unfortunately. She’s stuck between a rock and a hard place unfortunately, even though she deserved the position.
@@sparkle9909 Then go to Bert.
@@yunleung2631 No one ever goes to Cooper unless it's really important. In season 1, Don was having an affair with Rachel, a daughter of a client/client herself. After it ended and the father called Cooper, Cooper's response was: "Why is this man calling me?" It was his job to handle affairs like this. And Roger was the person that told Harry to replace Joan because as he put it, "at best, her attentions are divided." which is a fair argument on the surface.
I feel like roger wouldn’t have taken her seriously
@@daffo595 seriously though, Roger would have scoffed at the idea which would have made Joan very angry and then there would be makeup sex involved. Ugghh, so hard to be a 10/10 like our Joannie.
Harry really didn’t understand people.
I quit this series because it was way too much i can handle. All these small acting and comments from male colleagues to depreciate Joqn qnd Peggy works. ...make me fussing! As a carrier woman, it’s unbelievable what women have to endure at that period and they are bringing value to the company! But i have to say that things have not change on today upper management where it’s still a boy’s club.
You have to watch it in context of the time’s.
You're a "tough career woman" who has to fight to survive in a "man's world"... yet you can't handle watching a television show.
@@eat_a_dick_trudeau And you're some nobody who's triggered by her comment. Go cry me a river boi.
@@eat_a_dick_trudeau First, there is no correlation between job performance and watching a television show. You're making a comparison that's totally illogical. Second, everyone is different, with different strengths and weaknesses. You can be very strong in one area but not in another. You're judging someone you don't even know. She was honest, and you judged her because of her honesty. The problem isn't with her, the problem is that you lack any understanding of people.
@@ykMMD and you're a pathetic white knight, charging in to save some girl who probably has more hair on her chin than you can grow in a month.
Thanks sweetie. Now bring us some coffee.
Someone people think is dead...
is NOT
2:37 - 2:45 I love this part. Its so real.
Anyone have an idea of the significance of Joan at the end? Sitting at the edge of her bed, moving down the strap and rubbing it. I have an incling but not sure.
A comment on what a lot of women went through, on a daily basis in that era (it was proper for even the skinniest woman to wear a girdle). For both the standards of propriety and beauty.
Girdles, bras (even bras today) are painful
It’s a metaphor for the restrictions that comes with being Joan. She wasn’t considered for the broadcast roles because of the confines of being a woman in the 60’s. The veneer of looking perfect harms her (hence her rubbing where it aches)
It represents her having a great deal of weight on her shoulders from work and the world, as seen and felt by a woman's perspective.
Bras suck?
"Someone people think is dead, is not." After the scene when Joan mentions it to Greg, the aftermath of the party with the camera panning "Don". I.. just love the all the allusions, especially to Don's past this whole episode.
I always wonder if she told them she wanted the job or if she assumed they would offer it to her. She wasn't naive about how things worked in that office. You would think she would have spoken up. Without that, they would only see her as the very efficient office manager ( or whatever her position was). Maybe she should have changed how she dressed to make them see her differently. I don't know. It just wasn't right. She had obviously proved herself. Harry should have seen that. Very sad. I'm talking in circles. I will stop now.
She wasn’t dressed in an unprofessional manner if that’s what you mean
I hated so much Harold, such a misogynist always against Joan
Another BBC 4 fan I see... I approve.
Florence Okoye all the white girls love the bbc
He Took It Out😨😄
Elaine, is that you?
This is a prequel to Dexter
Yes he played a great serial killer , he hasn’t changed
Gawd I hated the priest- storyline. It must be hard to work in the shadow of his father forrest gump, he gave his best but the character was a pain in the az
Joan undercut her boss right in front of a client, selling "as the world turns" over "sea and ski". The same sin Pete performs on Don twice. She didn't discuss it beforehand.
Poor Joan, in fact poor any career woman in the 60s so much to sacrifice back then, today's feminists have no idea what woman back then and to go through.
Wow you really didn’t understand the show, did you ?
MissBelice what bit didn't I understand? Joan was screwed over royally! Many women in those days either took the Betty route or the Joan/Peggy route in life, many sacrificed having families because you couldn't do both in those days, Joan strives to earn the respect her male counterparts unquestionably get, the men can have families and careers and get a pat on the back or a promotion, I was just pointing out facts that did happen back then, it is slightly easier today, but Joan's generation paved the way forward, I 100% respect that as a male so please tell me what I didn't understand?
Today's feminists just wanna be victims while living ultra privileged lives
Or I don't know... stop sexual harassment in the workplace which still happens todayy
Or get equal pay
Or be safe while walking alone outside
Or stop having men thinking they know what's best for women (u know, guys like Jay Jay).
Of fucking course we have it better then women in the sixties...but why stop there if there is still more to do??
@@JayJay-nc7pr You are very correct !!! Many a man took credit for the work of a female co-worker…
fucking spoilers.
harry crane is so cute!
I really thought that Peggy was going to get involved with that priest kkk
I did too. But that what was great about the writing on this show. Never took the obvious route