Game Development Contracting
Вставка
- Опубліковано 14 тра 2024
- I talk about the pros and cons of being a contractor, as opposed to an employee, while doing game development work.
Videos I reference:
Career Summary 1981-2023: • Career Summary 1981-2023
Game Production Stages: • Game Production Stages - Ігри
Phew, we're so back boys! He said "it's me, Tim".
The greatest comeback in history
The dark days now lay behind us and we can look forward into the future again
Exactly what i was thinking
But this time he said “everybody” and not “everyone”
I clapped! I clapped when he said it!
Wild that you've been doing this channel for over a year now, thank you for the channel Tim!
You're welcome! I thought I would do it for a couple months for a few hundred people...so I think we are all surprised!
@@CainOnGames I'm a solo indie dev and your insight, as well as your candor, have been a beautiful and wonderful breath of fresh air. I look forward to each of your uploads as I work my way through the backlog of videos and it's been insightful and entertaining too. Thank you for all of your contributions to the industry as well as for sharing your anecdotes and a small window into your knowledge, Tim!
Important: as a contractor you may write off your gaming rig from your income (as well as your desk, LED-lit gaming chair, high-speed internet and more) as work experiences and reduce your income tax significantly.
Make sure you actually use all that for work tho!
Having spent 20 years in both permanent and contract roles, I can confidently say that due to the lack of job security and regulations in the US, there's little distinction between the two. The only real differences lie in pay and benefits. In the current climate of mass layoffs, don't be misled into thinking you can easily choose the best opportunities, as Tim suggests. As a contractor, every "interesting" job attracts hundreds of applicants, so you take what you can get and hope that something interesting eventually comes your way.
Important caveat. It's much harder to get off the ground as a contractor without colleagues in the business ready to pick up the phone and call you to do something because they've worked with you before and know you and your work, which was close to the only contract work I ever managed to land. Definitely not intended to dissuade anyone, but to remind everyone that it will take a lot of that perseverance Tim was talking about in another video to get started without those friends and contacts already in place.
Someone mentioned the gig economy in another comment and that's something to keep in mind as well. Companies don't seem to be all that keen on having employees anymore, especially lifetime employees as it was in the past, so if you just can't seem to get your foot in that door, self-employment and contract work is a feasible route to pursue, but just as if not more stressful if you're not established and semi-retired.
This has been my experience as well. I think it might be a little different for a dev as legendary as Tim.
The whole video I was confused as to why Tim was not mentioning job security at any stage... Then I remembered that he hails from the US, where you can get fired in all of the time it takes to sneeze at you.
How do you figure an hourly rate as a contractor?
Watching this channel as an indie dev is so interesting. Every other game development or game developer “youtuber” i’ve watched hasn’t had the same personal connection, if that’s the right term. Tim talks about stuff I think about and things I can relate to way more as a developer and a programmer. It’s very nice
The actual work may be less stressful, but the life of a contractor can be just as stressful (if not more). You have to keep looking for a contract and keep the wheels turning. Sure there might be lots of contracts out there, but you're your own project manager to make sure you have a steady flow of work. Your contract can also be terminated with very little warning. The contract might have clauses for termination, but there are always escape conditions so the company can just dump you without any notice (e.g. economy, studio shutdown, etc.). In any case, like all choices, you have to weigh and pros and cons and make a decision that works for you and your situation.
Yeah, can't lie, hearing Tim say that it's less stressful sounded to me like it was a bit extra-especially colored by subjectivity (which, to be clear, is no fault or issue -- we're all navigating reality with the burden of subjectivity!)
Yeah. Being able to retire right now if he wants to is a major difference from most people. His form of contracting is more like just getting paid to do a hobby at this point.
We have better employment law in the UK. Still contracting in this country tends to happen when you've built up contacts in an industry or have got a bit further up the chain. There has been a massive shift over the years to designate jobs as "self employed" as a way of avoiding giving holiday pay, pension contributions or sick pay. There roles are basically a way of hiring people in lower paid jobs and avoiding responsibility. This has been noticable with the huge rise in zero hour contracts, basically you are hired but not guaranteed to actually have any working hours. One week you could be in for 37, the next 2. Obviously those that work the hardest, or complain the least, get more hours but even then there's no guarantee. It was originally thought of as a way of filling gig economy jobs, and was meant to get rid of poorly paid agency work (which had no protections), but has massively expanded into healthcare and a whole load of other industries. There's talk of clamping down on it hopefully.
Hey Tim, thanks for answering my question!
So glad I discovered this channel! Thanks Tim!
i hope he’ll one day say: “Hi Tim, it’s us, everyone!”
Hey Tim! I was wondering if you could talk about some of the most useful programming patterns for making an RPG and some of their applications? I am just starting out with programming without a ton of formal education and find that my code is often not as agile as I would like it to be when reusing classes and increasing scale. Thank you and love the videos!
Have you watched Code Organization
ua-cam.com/video/Zzo5JTY8zjg/v-deo.html
@@CainOnGames I will give it a rewatch, thanks!
Early in my career I was asked to undertake a large project involving constructing a suite of test scripts for a large section of the software my company produced. I was relatively new and I didn't have a lot of experience, so I asked my boss about the possibility of bringing in a contractor who would start the project with me and whose experience could guide the beginning of the project, since this was going to be a solo project and no one else at the company was going have the time to help, and the response I got was "the advice a contractor would give would be to keep hiring them." Now, I imagine a company that hires a contractor wouldn't share this view because they're actively seeking a contractor in the first place, but I was wonder if you ever have felt like you had to struggle against people who held a similar view while working as a contractor.
A while ago, Tim, you suggested a video about the music of Arcanum. I think Arcanum is the game whose music I have thought about most, in terms of trying to understand it and find more similar music to it (with little success). If possible, I would like to see a video on that topic. If not, thank you for reading this comment.
This channel is gold.
I'm in this dilemma in my career right now. One big thing that Tim doesn't mention explicitly but hints at is that as a contractor you can't make a career in a single place. You can't make big decisions as a contractor and big responsibilities are not laid upon you either, so as a contractor you won't be promoted or given key roles. Yes, you can greatly improve your strongest skills as a contractor, but you won't progress in your career until you either get hired as employee, become a partner or go work somewhere else.
This channel is such a treat, thank you for your work Tim!
Great insight, thank you as always Tim for sharing
I never had options to pick the projects I worked on.
From where I come from, you are lucky to find a job at all.
"Gorilla Suplex" ok the "The Rock"-look was 100% an intended pun.
I hope you are having a good day Tim
i did some work as a QA contractor. it certainly does have its pro/cons, especially if theres a company managing them. unfortunately in the work space itself, there was a lot of elitism between contractors and the full-time employees for (insErt lArge video game company here). theres a lot of crossover with what Tim says in the video! and i think its worth exploring especially if one is trying to get their foot in the door in terms of video game work. :) thank you tim for a great video!!
One nice thing about contracting is it is easier to quit and I don't feel like it is an issue having a small stint on the resume. When "full time" I feel like I have to get to 2 years.
Tim, as an aspiring game programmer, I’d love to know more about whether a new developer should begin with AAA or indie, and the challenges/benefits of each; which one is easier to get into as a beginner or if it’s solely about personal preference.
It seems to me that indie gives more creative control but requires more responsibility and the expectations are that you have a more general skill set, where as AAA has less control and expects a more specialised skill set but with less individual responsibility.
Starting is always the hardest part and knowing what to expect from each side, and where to start, would be a really useful resource.
I’ve never worked indie.
@@CainOnGames Interesting, thank you for replying.
I work Freelance in the Film Industry, so Contractor. In our World, freelance is not without its risks and downsides, but overall it's a very exciting style of work. I'm sure things are similar in gaming, but it all comes down to client relations, your work is going to be a given, but it's the personal relationships you develop that truly cascade you. You may work with company A producer and they move on from that company A to Company B, but they may bring you in on a project for Company B, whilst you maintain a great relationship with company A, this is how one fans out their work and clients.
Hiya Tim, love this video! I'm looking for a career in consulting and a lot of what you said applies to my field to.
A quick question: You mentioned that you feel as though contracting suits your lifestyle better these days, but is there a chance of a new Tim Cain project? Whether that be a new IP or otherwise! Thanks for the time, Tim.
Love the content, no clue what i want to do with my life yet. Your videos are inspiring me to get going and move forward. Thanks for all the fallout information, wish you could have played a part in new vegas.
@CainOnGames Hi Tim, I have a question from the other side. What is your experience and tips for working WITH contractors. I myself have 2-3 contractors on my project. I treat them as full team members, full access, and we invite them even for teambuilding events. It works for me, not sure if I am just lucky :)
Did you have different arrangement? Were you in charge of contractors or just cooperated them on dev level?
BTW great content! I already used some of your experience and tips :)
Hi Tim, what would you say about the current pricing of games? Do you think it’s unreasonable for developers to charge more based on the development time ie Rockstar? Thanks!
Ooo that’s a good topic! Hope he covers it
Thanks for the video, I feel like it's been hard to hear about contracting in the game industry. As a solo developer, I'm aiming to hire contractors with my next game. Do you have any experience on the flip-side of contracting (being the one who manages contractors)?
Oh yea this topic is right up my alley, as of right now the only jobs ive ever gotten in the game industry has been as a contract writer. Admittedly id prefer to be full time but when you love an industry you take what you can get lol
My experience in my career with contracting is significantly different, and I'm not sure if that's just how Canada operates vs the US.
When you're a contractor in games in Canada, you're brought on for a very specific purpose for (usually) a specific project and that's really it. You do the job, you collect your agreed wage based on rate, and once its up, you can negotiate a renewal or if you move on afterwards. No benefits, and (usually) due to the length of contracts, it means you don't get any time off (unless you had negotiated that as part of your contract), and you most likely won't be eligible for paid stat holidays (meaning you will either get the day off and not get paid, or you don't get the day off and are required to work).
You said "everybody" :O !!
Hi Tim, love your games and love your channel pretty interesting insight!
Are you familiar with TTRPG Failure mechanics such as Fail Forward or Success for a price? Are those approaches considered designing new games? What are there some interesting game design approaches you dealt with?
Hey Tim, big fan. I wanted to ask if you happen to have any tips for solo devs working on their first full hobby project?
one of the pro's i experienced as a contractor is overtime pay. as a direct employee i don't qualify for overtime pay. as a contractor, overtime pay is required after 40hrs. yes there's nuance but these are/were the stipulations in the contracts
Hey Tim, I'd love to hear your thoughts as an experienced industry dev. What are your thoughts on micro-transactions, purchasable cosmetics, battle-passes, and all the ways games are trying to squeeze money out of their players? How many of these are actually needed to make a game profitable vs only there to make more money at the expense of the game?
The options of work for contractor job is as varied and plenty as there are for fulltime employees. There isnt many now.
With regards to contracting or hiring in general from the business side I have a question.
As a small dev, (AKA just me). I've been considering looking for another programmer familiar with Unreal 5 and the gameplay ability system to help me flush things out quicker. But I really don't know what to expect or how to approach this. I am guessing Contract would be the best way to go about it, I'd certainly like someone full time - I don't have the money for that so unless someone came in as a passion project for them as well I don't see it happening. But Any advice on seeking out skilled programmers? Or trying to recruit people.
Are the games concept artists also responsible for coming up with the graphic design such as logos, signs or flyers that fill the world? Are those departments split or is it just under the umbrella of concept art? I’ve been a professional graphic artists for 10 years but cannot paint a super detailed environment. Wondering if the skill set would transfer well or if I’m SOL
I'm just curious, but what does your gaming / work setup look like? Your office looks pretty cool
Hey @timongames have you seen or considered reaching out to the team working on the Vault 13 fallout 4 mod? They are trying to recreat fallout in 4's engine, and seem very dedicated to getting the tone correct. They peer review everything, maybe you would be interested in participating?
How do you find contracting gigs as a "regular" but experienced game developer? (ie. someone who is not famous enough to be sought after by name) Asking because the only contract work I've done so far has fallen into my lap by chance. I'd like to do more contracting but not sure where to find work, whereas for employment, simply being on LinkedIn is enough.
Why did you move to Seattle?
Thanks gorilla suplex
Hey Tim, have you ever considered making a smaller game with just you and Leonard? It seems like the two of you together have a pretty complete skill set to do a smaller project.
Hey Tim!
I interviewed for a job once and they told be I couldnt have another source of income that involved programming or talking about programing. Super weird, I asked if Twitch was ok, and I got the strangest look from the CEO.
Didnt get the job
Dodged a bullet
Generally, that's because they don't want any code that legally belongs to them being reused for anything else (habitual coding), or accidentally being dumped in the wrong folder.
Imagine if you accidentally dumped some of their source code onto github, ha ha. Ahhh.
@@SyndicateOperative That is saying that anyone who has a programming job isn't allowed to work on any personal projects that might be hosted on github, as some of the work code might end up on there. Code is not a business asset, it's a liability. Most code in commercial software is just copy pasted from other sources anyway, so there isn't a clear way of deciding who legally owns what.
How do you know if your game idea is good? I mean, I like my own idea but how do I know others will without making the game first?
Pitch your ideas to people, that's probably the simplest way.
If I wanted to contract someone to look over my game and give me feedback and general guidance, how would I go about it?
There are people and companies that offer development advice and focus group testing, but I have no contacts for them.
@@CainOnGames thanks for the tip
If you have something to play and try, then you could always release a demo and put it on gaming forums such as tig, itch, etc. Then ask some of your friends to try it out and if they enjoyed it have 'em pass it along. Word of mouth, basically. Having an in-game feedback reporting mechanism is also something I'd recommend. It's one less step from the player to you in getting that passed along.
Quick question: Are you contracting through an agency or are you an independent contractor? (I'm suspecting independent based on what you are saying).
this one is hitting a little too close to home ...
Tim, you think you'll ever go back to being a full time employee at a studio?
I wonder if you still work to have something interesting to do, or for financial reasons.
Im just gonna recreate arcanum in unreal engine 5 myself im tired of waiting for a remake.
Nah you won't buddy 😂 Simply re-creating the sprites would take several months of full-time work for an experienced artist
@@brotpros2306 took me 2 weeks to create 22 areas and 15 intertwined quests with advanced scripting for my neverwinter nights mod with custom content and i got one desert area with some oasis and temples i created in my own game in unreal engine in a month so there is hope if i was to do it lol
Hi Tim