Rare and historic Steinberger L2 bass set up
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
- This was an interesting one: a mid-1980s Steinberger L2 bass with the serial number 0145. John brought this along with two six strings for set ups; for him, the action on this felt too high and he was concerned about 'too much' permanent relief curve in the neck. He told me a little about this bass's history: one of the earliest graphite ones, very likely owned by Kate Bush's bass player in the 80s. Superb active EMG pickups and innovative strap fixture to say the least. But... despite oozing innovation at the time, apparently NO TRUSS ROD! This I found hard to understand: how or why would such a ground-breaking company produce a guitar with no means to adjust the neck? The only feasible answer had to be that Steinberger believed that the neck would... well, what? Go to x amount of relief and stay there under string load? But how much? And why would x much be appropriate for different players? No matter how much I tried to logically argue this lack of truss rod as a confident innovation (or even marketing device) it just didn't make sense. In the end, I could only come to one conclusion: dumb decision.
The video shows me getting under the hood of this lovely old bass - and make no mistake, I LOVED playing this thing. For me it's probably the best bass I've played. Totally great tone, simple controls (neck vol, bridge vol and master tone) that make sense. I set out to lower the action (based on John's comment about the action feeling high) and since there was nothing I could do with the relief in the neck, I left it there at 0.5mm at the halfway point which, by the way, doesn't seem massively high for bass anyway...
I chose to carefully level the frets after lowering the action, more to 'scoop' out the bumpy fretboard profile than to level actual uneven frets although there was some congestion at the neck / body joint. I kept on looking for a truss rod adjuster...somewhere... anywhere... but no, there really wasn't one.
Thank you for this. I also have a historic L2 (Fretless 1981) that still plays beautifully. Nice to see the innards again.
Ned Steinberger improved those Steinberger L-2 basses a few years later with the XL-2 model, he modified the face plate attachment of the body by moving the screws on the back of the body instead of the front, which aesthetically look better, the headpiece was also modified with the tip of the neck strait instead of curvy, the bridge was one piece instead of two and there was a screw to each saddle to adjust the intonation of the bass, new EMG HB pickups were also introduced, with a new electronic preamp and so on and on... But still no trust rod in the neck because those neck would supposedly never move no matter what temperature or time, which is not true, I can tell by experience. And to finish I would like to say that the Steinberger XL-2 still my favorite bass of all time!
That's very interesting to hear Guy. I immediately liked this thing as soon as I held it. But I do think that stance on the truss rod isn't.... well, sensible. Steinberg either intended the bass to be played with a dead flat neck (they may have claimed that it NEVER curved at all) or with some relief (but how much? and why would that amount of relief be suitable for all players and all styles?? It just doesn't sound credible. Whether his claim that the neck never moves is true or not (your experience suggests NOT) what IS true is that this bass has X amount of relief that my customer feels is too much for him - and no way to control it. That just can't be a good strategy, no matter how bullishly confident you might be in your new techno-wonder-materials..
The L2 was unmatched. The XL2 was less superior
@@Maximus091768 Hard disagree. Do you have anything to back this claim?
Curt Smith from Tears for Fears played one during the recording and tour of Songs from the Big Chair.
Also played it on the the hurting and live in 83
They were the rage in the 80's, but seems to all but forgotten today. Looking forward to watching this!
Hi Sam,
I’ve always wanted to see under the bonnet of one of those so thanks for that interesting video 😎👍
I have one of those. Original owner from '83, I think it was. Was my main bass/third arm, and has been around the US, Canada and Europe on tour in the 80s/90s. Ned Steinberger came to one of my gigs. Was also cool to hang out a couple times with Andy West, who was one of the guys that made me want one back when they were new. He sold his years ago. I used to run mine with action so low a US dime wouldn't fit between frets/strings. Anyway, really like the channel, and I bought your reloved guide a couple years ago. I've set up several made in Asia guitars successfully using your methods, though I never got the banana to work. I use the fret rocker technique instead. Hi Maurice!
Do you realize that you put the strings on backwards? The small ball end goes on the nut and the large colored end on the saddle. It’s in the owners manual.
Thanks for the observation. Difficult to know when the owner doesn’t mention it and there’s no owner’s manual with the guitar. To the untrained eye they look like ‘double ball end strings’… Given how the windings at both ends came up onto the saddles and the zero fret could it have been any worse?
When you own a vintage Steinberger-and I’ve owned 9 over the last 40+ years-it’s best to follow the original specs and adjustments across the board. One of the big things is using “known good strings” only. For double ball sets, I only use the LaBellas that were OEM. A lot of other companies made db strings over the years, but a LOT were sub-standard and out of spec. Some so much that they caused breakage/failure of the jaws at the bridge. But a simple rule of thumb is “big ball @ bridge” … that was true regardless of the brand.
I heard you playing Tubeway Army 😊😊😊
I watched GN playing 'Are Friends Electric' on a recent UA-cam video... it was superb. That keyboard riff was and is genius!
I think like my old Kramer aluminum necked bass these have to truss rod.
Thats interesting..All L2 basses came with EMG "SS" pickups, including my 83 but that one has the HB..
I know I’ve written to you already. My notes above the 12th fret are sharp. Some severely sharp.
Where fretted notes are sharp it has to be an intonation issue. If sharp right near the nut it can be because the 1st fret action is too high (this is certainly a major problem on a majority of electric 6 string guitars); if the notes are sharp played higher up - as in your case - it sound to me that the scale length for each individual string (what we call 'setting the intonation') is wrong. Have you set the intonation for each string by adjusting the saddles?
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars i will give it another intonation. How do you intonate?
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars if my pups are too high, will that pull the notes sharp?
@@Maximus091768 The principle is that each string requires a slightly different length to ensure that all the notes fretted on that string are correctly in tune or 'intonated'. For the intonation to be correct the fretted note at the 12th fret on any particular string should be exactly the same as either the 12th fret harmonic or the open string. Using a decent tuner, tune the 12th fret harmonic or open string to (for example A) and then play the note fretted at the 12th fret. If this note is SHARP of your open string then it means the distance between nut and saddle for this string is slightly too short. To correct this, move the saddle a small amount away from the nut. Test again until the open (or harmonic at 12th fret is the same as the fretted 12th). If the fretted 12th is FLAT that means the distance between nut and saddle is slightly too long; in that case move the saddle slightly towards the nut until the notes are the same. The same principle applies to a 6 string guitars.
Each string requires a different playing length due to differences in string composition (wound vs. plain) and differences in string thickness between all the strings.
Hope that helps.
@@Maximus091768 Not really. If the pickups are very close to the strings as in 'almost touching' the magnetic field CAN interfere with the strings' movement, killing sustain.
Great video. Just got a mint L2. How did you adjust the intonation ? Also, I have fret slap on the E string in the upper registers. Any thoughts?
Thanks! You might see in the video that I labelled the sides of the bridge so I could re-locate the saddles back with their intonation points at the same as when I took them off (for reference). I will then have checked again (either on or off-camera!) to ensure the intonation is right. Amazingly on this and the Steinberger 6 string guitars the saddles have to be pushed around manually using trial-and-error until you get the intonation right. Once you do, the saddles are pushed together ('locked'!) by a small grub screw pushing through the bridge side. Really crude. Same only more fiddly for the 6 string. Thankfully I 'trust the pattern' when it comes to intonation so providing I get the high E right, I can set the others by eye and they're 99% of the time spot-on. Very clunky engineering.
To set the intonation, am I getting the string in tune, the hitting the harmonic on the 12th fret and if it’s sharp, move the saddle toward the bridge?
@@Maximus091768 You're tuning the harmonic 12th fret ping to pitch; once that's tuned you then fret that string at the 12th fret (instead of pinging the harmonic).
The fretted note should be exactly at the same pitch as the tuned harmonic ping.
If it's sharp you string is fractionally too short so you move the saddle slightly AWAY from the nut to lengthen it.
If the fretted note is flat (compared to the harmonic ping) the string is too long so you move the saddle TOWARDS the nut to shorten it.
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars I will give it a shot! Thank you!!
On my L2 the intonation is good. If I lower the strings at the saddle(they are a bit high) will that change the intonation.
Good question. Intonation is a function of distance - the distance between the front edge of the nut and the apex of the saddle. Each string needs a particular distance between those two points to intonate properly on a neck made to a particular notional scale length. If you lower the saddle, you ARE technically shortening the distance between those two points but by a tiny amount. Technically-speaking, therefore, since lowering the action shortens that distance you might benefit from pushing that saddle back very slightly. It would be worth experimenting to see if there is any perceptible intonation change due to lowering action. Perceptible is the key word - because the changes in distances are so tiny that they are functionally immeasurable with any ruler and can ONLY be detected by the fretted 12th fret note being slightly sharp or flat. Having said all that, I really ought to do that experiment myself...
Interestingly, if you go the other way and raise the action at the bridge end, the more the string will stretch when being fretted at the 12th anyway.... this will tend to make it play sharp too. Will that sharpness cancel out the flatness of the increased distance created by the taller action? And to some extent, the opposite effect should be true when lowering the action...
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars thank you. I have an L2 that I think I have the intonation pretty good but the action could use a bit of lowering. I will give it a try and let you know how I do. Thank you as always for you detailed response!
34:00 Just measure 34” from the crown of the zero-fret to the contact point of the G string saddle block. That’s your starting point for proper intonation. (Fitting you’d bring this up at about 34 minutes)
11:03 “All you know” about this is actually incorrect. Ned wasn’t “losing money on them” nor did they “cost more to make than they could sell them for.” His goal all along was to get a major manufacturer to make them, so he could focus on design and development and not be focused on being a businessman running a factory. He succeeded in that goal, it’s just that selling to Gibson was an unfortunate ending point for the design … those fellas can jump into a rose bush and come out smelling like shite.
Thanks for the insight. I don't doubt that what I 'know' about a new model of guitar that I've never seen before and not had a lifetime to research is incorrect. Your insider knowledge adds to the picture.
I wouldn't even bother with that bass if it doesn't have a truss rod. Steinberger suckered a lot of people with a truss rod-less bass. They thought (at the time) that graphite neck would never bend. Yeah, right..in Fantasyland! The Spirit XT-2DB I believe has a truss rod. If not, I'm getting a refund. It's better to get a refund than be a low frequency sucker! 🤔
Maybe they also figured that technically a bass could do without relief since the action is so much higher by comparison with a 6 string guitar.
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars in reality you want your action as low as you can get it without buzzing. I hope to splurge on the XT - 2DB next month and I really almost can't wait. That bass looks extremely portable and high tech. After I paint over that lame writing on the front or call Steinberger and ask them not to put that advertisement on there, it will be totally cool! With the pre amp I assume I can go straight in with headphones. Too cool. 🤔👍
What's the name of that German guy who always hides my stuff.....?
Er….. no idea. If you’ve lost your cat it could be Schroedinger
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars I got it.., he's name is Alzheimer's.
@@pallecla :-D
You look good playing bass! Learn to play a little and you'll get plenty of gigs :)
Thanks Larry! It definitely made me want a bass. Then, when I dropped it back to it's owner he put a fretless bass in my hands (made for him by the late Mervyn Hiscox) and that made me want a fretless bass!
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars ooooh, someday I'll have myself a nice fretless :)
@@Larry1077 Guy in my town selling one… having to control my urges