Belgian Model 1915/27 Improved Chauchat
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- Опубліковано 15 чер 2024
- / forgottenweapons
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The Belgian Army was the second to adopt the Chauchat automatic rifle, after the French. Almost all of Belgium was under German occupation during World War One, leaving Belgium significantly dependent on French aid for arms during the war. The initial Belgium purchases were standard 8mm Lebel CSRGs, but by 1917 Belgian engineers were working on a solution to convert the guns to the Belgian standard 7.65mm Mauser cartridge. This was completed by the end of the war, and the Chauchat remained a standard arm of the Belgian military after the war.
Work to improve the design continued, and an upgrades version was formally adopted in 1927. This included the 7.65mm conversion, with the best magazines made for any model of the Chauchat, as well as a series of dust covers to close off every hole in the gun (magazine well, ejection port, charging handle slot, and barrel shroud vents). The Belgians also replaced the original bipod with a much better type (similar to what they would use on the FN BAR), simplified the feed system, and added a tension latch to ensure reliable operation.
This new pattern of CSRG would be standard Belgian front-line armament until the FN BAR was adopted in 1930. The Chauchats were still in service with some until at the beginning of World War Two though, and saw service at that time.
Thanks to the Liege Arms Museum for access to film this for you! If you are in Belgium, definitely plan to stop into the museum, part of the Grand Curtius. They have a very good selection of interesting and unusual arms on display.
www.grandcurtius.be
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
6281 N. Oracle #36270
Tucson, AZ 85704
French Chauchat: 'Is that mud? Oooooo, i don't feel well . . .'
Belgian Chauchat: "Mud? Close all watertight doors, prepare to dive!'
Prepare the ballast tanks!
ALARM!!!
Achtung! Crash dive! Crash dive!
AR-15 : REEEE I DIDN'T GET OILED THIS MINUTE AND I JAMMED BECAUSE OF DU ST
AK-47 : OwO ? Is that mud ? I'm a musky muddy rifle uvu
@@Timochat_
AK-47: Oh crap, I got mud in me and now I'm jammed
AR-15: Mud in me? Hah that's a nice fantasy
I imagine Ian trying to sneak out with It inside a conspicuously shaped tripod bag.
YOU SEE NOTHING!
@@ForgottenWeapons Brings a heavily laden bag in. Walks out with a heavily laden bag. (Just make sure to use Euros.)
“Hey Ian! You forgot your camera tripod at the filming site, hey what’s in your camera bag..?”
MrMisterDerp “this is just my .... EXTRA tripod!”
Under the shirt.
“The best version of the worst gun”
Sounds like a chauchat alright....
It was a joke from Ian, everyone know that the 8mm Lebel was the equivalent of a Sten but for LMG while the 30-06 was **the** absolute mess, i don't know what North Americans have with trying to convert everything into 30-06/imperial but it doesn't always work.
@@Warptenlololol Ammo compatibility, ease of manufacturing, and having nothing else are some of the big reasons.
@@Warptenlololol It's not that it doesn't work, I don't remember exactly but they made a mistake while converting. But yeah the Chauchat is the Sten of WWI.
A polished turd is still a turd.
@@Poopooslinger "Sten of ww1" i dunno about that, the sten wasn't THAT bad.
I wonder how tempted Ian was to try and sneak this out of the museum?
What a great gift idea. It already has Mae's name on it!
"Nice trenchcoat, Ian!"
Is that a chauchat in your pants or are you just happy to see me?
Ian's smart so he took it apart and smuggled out a couple of pieces as he plans to take a few pieces of it every time he's there.
I believe the term for Americans taking home firearms from Europe is "liberating".
"Hey can I borrow this magnificient gun? I want to torture test it with sand and a leafblower."
"magnificient gun"
@@danielaramburo7648 I was going to say that Gun Jesus, being massive french rifles nerd, would never do that to any french gun. And then I remembered that he did it at least to MAS 49.
Actually given his mud and sand tests it’s a wonder any museum lets him handle them...... 😂😂
"Behold, this magazine is on par with the average!" -Ian 2019, speaking with great enthusiasm about the most improved Chauchat he could find.
The furniture on this gun looks like it was originally living room furniture.
"My rifle smells of rich mahogany"
Taylor West hey IKEA never makes sense to me. I buy a shelf, and end up building B level machine guns 🤷🏻♂️
It is. The French manufacturing capacity was already at maximum capacity so the Chauchat was originally farmed out to non-essential industries, basically small time woodworkers who had been too old for military service and who were more familiar with door handles or cupboards than military rifles.
I was wondering where the leaf from my table went.
@@johnanon6938 who doesn't love rich Corinthian leather
See, project Lightening was actually real-world historical research. Now, in the future when people are examining the 1915/27 Belgian Chauchat will be able to understand the purposes of some of the less-obvious improvements. This may seem to be really obscure, and it is, but it shows that communication was transmitted from soldiers who actually used the weapons to the development teams.
I always wonder if Ian knows that he's important to history now whether he likes it or not.
Ian may not realize it but in travelling the world, looking over all these guns, and doing independent research, he is on track to become THE international authority on historical firearms development. Like, a historically significant researcher.
He does excellent and truly notable work.
@@joshy7759, from watching his videos, this has been something he's hoped would be the case for years now. I don't think his impetus has ever been just to produce just entertaining content or maybe something for people playing a few video games. Why else would he ever have started his Forgotten Weapons website, www.forgottenweapons.com/ , his association/collaboration with different museums, research and professional associations. His website really is quite informative.
This is a great example of how important experimental archaeology can be, it allows us to get real experience in how a technology or other aspect of culture really works. There are so many pervasive myths that people take for granted to be fact, actually getting out into the field to test these things can be so illuminating. I'm really into slings for example, one of the most ancient projectile weapon systems, and there's an awful lot of misinformation or conjecture about how these things were actually used in warfare. If the recorded history is lacking sometimes the best thing you can do is get out there and put a real-world scenario to the test.
GurtTarctor; agreed, and as I’m sure you’ve determined, those corrections that are so often missing or misidentified are not forthcoming from the cold, academic world. Such active historians and educators as Forgotten Weapons and C&R Arsenal as well as disparate contributors such as the Chieftain (Nicolas Moran) and Ian’s partnership with Karl Karsada with InRangeTV are prime examples. If one wishes to learn perhaps alternate facts that often differ greatly from “everybody knows” types of myths, these content creators ARE the new, approachable historians, credentialed or not.
That's a remarkably elegant and aesthetic gun, for being a Chauchat.
while overlooking the reality that any military unit would be overrun while getting all the dust covers open....
@@TheWolfsnack You're obviously not meant to have all of them engaged if you're expecting combat within a reasonable timeframe (the magazine one would certainly not be engaged, for starters). It's more meant for transportation and the such. For that purpose, it works.
Is it as good as BAR's which automatically disengage? No. Is it an improvement over the original? Yes, massively so.
I prefer the steampunk look of the original
@@niksarass It looks more steampunk with all the brass
@@Kacpa2 yep, the all-brass screws, studs and levers gave really a nice blinge to the gun.
It looks like a steampunk chauchat with the colors of the wood and the brass.
No brass on it (except maybe for that plate for the leather strap). It steel with a straw temper.
Its actually gorgeous
@@dak4465 yeah, bluing is superb.
For such a geographically small country Belgium has some really fascinating arms development. They're pretty clever gunsmiths.
Being stuck between Germany and France is one hell of an incentive plan for small arms and large arms as well!
Serial number 2340 MAE - so the gun was just made to be reviewed in C&Rsenal, huh?
Mae would enjoy it probably, hahaha.
Flattery will get you everywhere.
Belgium's motto should be "Guns, Chocolate & Beer".
Indeed! Beeing belgian i cant agree more ;)
It actually is !
... but we keep it between us :D
And waffles
Not many people know that was the original name of Jared Diamond's book...
correction: Guns, chocolate, Beer & no functioning goverment
I'm going to assume that, with this video going online, we will see a Belgian Chauchat in WW2 games within a few years.
I will agree with that comment. I'm wondering how your comment is a month old when the video just got up.
@@TheDougwoods Patreon backers get to see videos early.
Douglas Woods The only thing I can think of is that he’s a patreon supporter and patreon got to watch the video a month early. On last weeks video I also saw comments that were weeks old right after the video was public for me.
The UA-cam AI got caught in a quantum flux when it analyzed the transcript and tried to make sense of the gun design
@@sethmoyer ah, that explains it. I just didn't know how Patreon and UA-cam worked in conjunction.
As a belgian i didnt even knew this museum existed! Tell the Liege lads this video worked, we're gonna visit soon
You also seem to like planes and are Belgian, you are at least aware that there's an impressive military aviation museum in Brussels, I hope?
@@Gliese380 ofcourse! Been there 3 times already. Also going to brasschaat in the spring
Ian just filmed 40 videos with it and smuggled it out one piece at a time. It didn't cost him a dime. You'll know it's ian when he comes through your town.
I'm sure ian has been on the hunt for one of these in the states for his personal collection.
Well, in the US, if one in private hands, it had to be registered with the Federal government prior to 1986. If an "unknown" specimen would just happen to show up, it would be required to be turned over to the Federal Government for destruction. So, in some ways, the register would have any and all legal machine guns listed in the register.
There could be several copies buried in collections, private, museum and government that will never see the light of day, researchers or the public. Such is the nature of government regulation done simply for optics.
"Those damn Belgans, they just made you so damn...evil"- Nigel Powers
Belgian Cadets😁😁😁m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1134172423458257&id=425453047663535
“There are only two things I can't stand in this world: People who are intolerant of other people's cultures, and the Dutch.” -also Nigel Powers
What do you expect? They share a border with the Dutch!
"The only thing worse than being French is WANTING to be French" - John Cleese, on Belgians.
@@danmanmcleod PLease no!!!
It's impossible to improve something that's already perfect.
A fellow *Chachaut Cultist* i see
Laughs in .303 Lewis gun.
@@jonprince3237 laughs in 20 time more chauchat produced than lewis
Factory: how many dust covers do you want?
Belgium: yes
Some Belgian engineer took one look at a Chauchat and lost his shit a little...
6:55 "You now how every hole in the gun covered up" Isn't there another opening out front where the 7.65 Mauser-sized death comes out?
I bet they had leather muzzle caps too
Nah that was kept clear with copper & lead around every 600 or so times a minute........
@@lycossurfer8851 I would assume so - it was more the "literally every hole" part I was commenting on. 🙂
Ian, I'm belgian from Wallonia and you just made me find out about this place :D
Well, tell them I sent you! :)
Wow, they really subscribed to the InRange Mud Test school of thought when they upgraded this.
2010s: "Isn't it a bit ridiculous to have covers for the cooling holes?"
1910s: *_Flanders mud intensifies_*
Belgium: Hey Ian we have a Belgian Chauchat. Would you like to see it?
Ian: I'll buy your whole stock!!
I wonder how bad Ian wanted to smuggle that home.
I definitely want to see Ian testing this!
The 7,65 Belgian Mauser cartridge was a surprisingly modern round for the time. It is actually quite similar to the 7,62x51 NATO round.
Thank you Ian. You were EXACTLY the man to look at that and understand the latch update. 100 years for someone to figure that out.
Some clever people worked on that in the teens/twenties, some good engineering solutions there.
Thanks for this video! As a Belgian, I appreciate this tribute to my country and the fact you went to Liege to visit an arms museum.
Hm.
Maybe as a way to keep it ready it's bolt back with the charging handle cover left open and the ejection cover on, so that the first shot slams it open as it flies forward to chamber and fire when an enemy trooper comes around?
11:30 wait, did the Belgians add the latch BEFORE or AFTER they watched Project Lightning...or did they go for the patreon subscription in order to see them all at once?
Ian, have you ever broken any firearms that you didnt own? What was the most expensive gun(or part) you have broken?
Chauchat basically translates to “Hot Cat” is that intentional? Lol
This gave me a laugh in a much needed time. Thank you
Chaud chat will be ‘hot cat’ 👍
Chauchat is not translatable.
CHAUD**** Chat**** mean hot cat.
Chauchat is the name of the Chauchat family.
Wasn't the leader of France at the time of development known as the lion or tiger or something like that? May be due to that
@@anthonywilliams379 well the guy you're talking about was George Clémenceau, he had multiples fonctions, like war minister, but he wasn't leader of France, the French president at the time was Raymond Poincaré,
George Clémence au has multiples nickname, but during the great war, his nickname was " Le tigre" basically meaning " the tiger"
Belgian's (FN) take on the BAR is also a quantum leap in quality (if not quite a leap as making the Chauchat useful): pistol-grip and cooling-rimmed barrel capable of easy change on a par with the Bren, amongst other changes.
I was so excited to see this. Everytime you upload it's something entirely new that I didnt know. I love this channel! 😋😊😃
This just improved my ChauShit this morning. Thanks Ian!
I remember going to Fed Ord in South El Monte for 7.65 Mauser in stripper clips at 4 cents a round, it takes awhile to go through a few thousand rounds when they are through a Modelo 1891 carbine!
This is like taking a very old game and using 5 different mods to get it to run, and to get the optimal experience.
Bipod Stud was my nickname in highschool.
You see the biggest problem the Belgian had when trying to improve the chauchat is the fact that they were working with the chauchat
You can have a subsection call "Weapons that should be Forgotten..." for the truly bad weapons. I love your videos.
I live in liège and i study gunsmithing ! I went to this museum two weeks ago ! Unfortunately i didn't see this gun because the war weapons floor wasn't open to visitors
"How many dust covers do you want?"
- "All of them."
Oh, good to see you in Belgium :) hope you enjoyed your stay
Since the Belgians only "joined" WW2 (read: were invaded) in may of 1940, the use of the year 1940 at 12:50 is possibly more correct than 1939.
The Belgian Army mobilized shortly after the German invasion of Poland and although not formally "at war" with Germany did ready its defences for an imminent attack from the East.
That latch is very, very cool to see.
Wish I had known you were coming ! I have worked with that museum a few years ago and it sure is full of interesting things. If you couple that with the fact that you'll find every beer you need in Liège, there's basically only good reasons to go there. Thanks for your work from a belgian fan !
I'm glad you got to Show show us this model.
"Zillion" dust covers and every orifice. That made my morning, thanks Ian.
Thank you , Ian .
Guns like this, finnish mosins, and the interwar MG08/15 are always interesting because their countries were still having to use the WW1 equipment they had but did what they could to improve them
Oh wow, how cool is that, eh?
I love the sounds when everything clicks and snaps into place!!
That finish is gorgeous.
Wonderful Ian, thanks. Steam punky mad gun thing, gorgeous
The color of the bolt with the black of the gun looks really nice, I think I'll add one of these to my list
Look very good, and in an almost brand new condition; all those covers look to me like an improvement yeah, but only for the rest/carry possition, what looks like a real improvement IMO it's the caliber change and the magazines, plus that thing to hold both parts of the gun together.
"Improved Chauchat"
how do you improve on perfection, I ask
Gorgeous gun, in the black with the brass details. I know it's paint but that off-white stripe in the middle of the magazine is very appealing.
That latch will also provide additional holding force, might alleviate the wearing of the takedown holes as well.
been wanting to know about this since othais mentioned it
The Chauchat Redemption
I hope this sounds close enough to Shawshank lol, i only clicked to comment this
What every Chauchat wants to be when it grows up.
You were in Liège Ian? I study there, I walk right past the Grand Curtius almost every day! I wish I could meet you one day.
7:40 I think you scratched the rifle when you closed that lever :(
I love the callback to the zip tie fix from Project Lightening!
That is the most gorgeous chauchat I’ve ever seen. It’s so strong and elegant looking.
What a gorgeous firearm.
Ooooh I went there!
Really nice museum
Now that's a very well polished turd
Great that you have another museum relationship.
the chauchat is bloody ridiculous and I love it!
Project Lightning II: Lightning Strikes Twice!
Pretty and stylish as a french gun, mean and complex as a german one thats Belgium for you
6:21 Perhaps the ejection port dust cover can't be closed unless the bolt is locked back on the sear?
Possibly. And since it's an open bolt gun, I wonder if it can be fired with it closed and firing kicks it open?
awesome vid ian!
Pleaaaaase tell me there is a video of you shooting this beauty in the near future ! I love the chauchat ,especially this one!
He would need to get hold of one that's not on display in the museum. It would be EXTREMELY unlikely that a museum would let you fire one of it's display guns, especially one as in nice a condition as this one is. (assuming of course, that it IS in a fireable state)
@@jcorbett9620 Yes you are probably right.I would love to see to what extend the better magazine improves reliability.
I would LOVE to see the firing comparison between the 3
This is honestly a very new nice gun
Even with ALL the issues... everytime I see one of Ian's review of one of these.... I get the idea that if someone, somewhere did a really GOOD redesign of just the magazine there would be many less horror stories about these things.
Hey that's the city where i spend my weekends and i've been to that museum.
Every time I see a Chauchat I'm amazed at just how much "gun" there is behind the action...
I feckin love the ChauChat!
How did I miss this video until now?
That is actually really cool it's always been on my bucket list to go to Belgium and visit the ruins in namur and liege allways found that part of ww1 history interesting
beautiful weapon...
Great video
That was cool and very informative.
Thankyou! :)
What on earth is that freak of nature
sounds like a museum id love
Ce gars est formidable.
What a way to brighten a Monday
Hey Ian, would be interested in a video about any "missed opportunities" on rare/interesting you have seen before you started filming and not seen since.
This is hands down one of the most badass steampunkiest guns I've ever seen. The brass, the lines, and the wood are just so perfect. I WANT IT.
Okay, that sear-clampy-thingy is very cool.
Hey Ian, would love to see you do a video on the paru 2008 assault rife. The FAD.
Othias is probably breaking down the door to get to This gun
"Oh no an American Yeti is at the door!" Museum Curator's last known words.
Thank you for your very knowledgeable and highly informative videos! Have you ever had the opportunity to visit the Zeughaus in Solothurn, Switzerland? It's quite a treasure trove of weaponry, and well worth a visit!
Good job
I guess the ultimate version would be this, a Maxim silencer and a early Kahles scope.....
Well that's quite a lot of dust covers. For something which is just add ons to a war expedient gun they also managed to make it all look very standard