How To Make A Junction Safer - California Crossroads - Finchampstead Wokingham

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  • Опубліковано 29 гру 2024
  • #infrastructure #roads #driving
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    The california crossroads in Finchampstead, Wokingham, has had a bit of a touch up with some brightly coloured paint and leaf patterned crossings. Does it make sense...The idea is to make the junction and area safer but does a bit of paint make it safe, or more dangerous... I'm not sure but we'll try to work it out.

КОМЕНТАРІ • 750

  • @MadMax76er
    @MadMax76er Місяць тому +584

    Can't wait for the utility companies to tip up and make a real shit show of that tarmac

    • @MrLunarlander
      @MrLunarlander Місяць тому +35

      That's something I've thought. Because they're so renowned for the quaility of their reinstatement works.

    • @dw7920
      @dw7920 Місяць тому +9

      And given it's California, it won't be long before the place is demanding a facelift..

    • @I_Don_t_want_a_handle
      @I_Don_t_want_a_handle Місяць тому +3

      @@dw7920 or there are dead junkies and shit everywhere ...

    • @2728Alexis
      @2728Alexis Місяць тому +3

      I give all the road markings 18 months.

    • @roberthiggins6401
      @roberthiggins6401 Місяць тому

      I think you'll be closer with 18 minutes.

  • @kempshott
    @kempshott Місяць тому +542

    Perhaps I'm dreaming, but If it's California Crossroads, shouldn't all the leaves be brown?

    • @mdtdbe
      @mdtdbe Місяць тому +66

      Not only that, the sky isn’t grey…

    • @chrishartley1210
      @chrishartley1210 Місяць тому +6

      Ah, it's going to be a railway, with the wrong sort of leaves.

    • @marieascot
      @marieascot Місяць тому +5

      You will find lots of Redwood trees nearby and I'm not just talking about the local MP.

    • @lewis72
      @lewis72 Місяць тому +6

      I see what you did there.

    • @Tmp205
      @Tmp205 Місяць тому +6

      @@marieascotex MP 😂

  • @Izithel
    @Izithel Місяць тому +353

    Seems like an attempt to create a "non-standard" scenario for most road drivers, so they can't mentally auto-pilot trough the intersection and the confusion slows them down and forces them to actually pay attention.
    The problem is of course that when the local drivers are used to it they will go back to racing trough it.

    • @thefunkygib
      @thefunkygib Місяць тому +33

      Yep, exactly my thought about it as well. With the added benefit of the locals who are used to continuing at speed versus people that aren't familiar with it and going slowly. Surely this will increase rear ending and the like?

    • @chrisblay
      @chrisblay Місяць тому +8

      Or even, through it. 🤣

    • @thomaschilds8781
      @thomaschilds8781 Місяць тому +17

      ​@@thefunkygib doubly so now that there's no duty to give way

    • @mikecrimlis3366
      @mikecrimlis3366 Місяць тому +13

      It's a free-for-all. Whoever has the biggest, oldest, shittiest car just barges through knowing that owners of nice new cars will be more cautious. It's made the village quieter ofr now as most people will take a detour rather than deal with it.

    • @Skorpychan
      @Skorpychan Місяць тому +12

      It's Wokingham, they're used to uncertainty and changing road layouts. They'll just carry on as normal and mow down each other's children with their Range Rovers, and the pedestrians will just have to learn to dodge.

  • @EcoHamletsUK
    @EcoHamletsUK Місяць тому +151

    My solution to the traffic around Wokingham was to move to semi-rural Somerset, then to even more rural West Wales. It's worked, so far!

    • @marcuscross8051
      @marcuscross8051 Місяць тому +12

      If you continue going west into the sea, there's zero cars in there.

    • @mikecrimlis3366
      @mikecrimlis3366 Місяць тому

      That was our plan until the lockdowns screwed up our plans.

    • @nathanw9770
      @nathanw9770 Місяць тому +6

      ​@@marcuscross8051 If you go even further west, coming off the earth's curvature and orbit, you'll find there are no cars OR humans there. It's perfect.

    • @stephenrandall3551
      @stephenrandall3551 Місяць тому +6

      I did the same, moving from Basingstoke to South Wales. 😅😅

    • @JackParfitt04
      @JackParfitt04 Місяць тому +1

      I live in Somerset and the traffic is shocking here 😂

  • @alexanderswistak1778
    @alexanderswistak1778 Місяць тому +120

    I can’t wait for them to try this on the magic roundabout

    • @aidanhind4620
      @aidanhind4620 Місяць тому +7

      They should just make it one huge concrete slab and a make it a free for all

    • @woodrick88
      @woodrick88 Місяць тому

      @@aidanhind4620 Dodgems

    • @craigjones7111
      @craigjones7111 Місяць тому +3

      They should take all the road markings away anyway. Everybody just shuts there eyes and goes for it.

    • @mikesptworld
      @mikesptworld Місяць тому +2

      ​@@aidanhind4620You mean like the 'indian' method!? :-P or you could try the Dominican Republic way: big / legitimate vehicles use the road normally whilst scooters and small motorcycles can use the roads in either direction without helmets and riding 5 up whilst high on banana leaves with 0 hoots given :-D

    • @aidanhind4620
      @aidanhind4620 Місяць тому +2

      @@mikesptworld Yeah exactly like that

  • @aarontt
    @aarontt Місяць тому +45

    As a local, I have to say this new junction is absolutely horrendous. Every time I go through it, my focus is not at all on the pedestrians, but rather the confused and unpredictable drivers, some of whom continue to navigate the junction as the mini roundabouts it once was, while others either just floor it and pray, or stop for no apparent reason. I have no issue with designing junctions that improve pedestrian safety, but this one does the complete opposite!

    • @mikecrimlis3366
      @mikecrimlis3366 Місяць тому +4

      Agreed. I've been using it every day since it re-opened and still not gone through it the same way twice!

    • @lp9280
      @lp9280 Місяць тому +7

      As non local I would 100% look at it and assume it is mini roundabout... and whose fault would it be? Roads are utility and they have marking for reason... and say we have accident - how would you even prove it is... or it isn't a roundabout. Would it be 50/50 fault? how can one attribute blame when there are no markings to explain who has to do what?

    • @scubamabar
      @scubamabar Місяць тому +1

      People always used to be confused when it was a double mini roundabout too. The big difference now is that they are generally moving a lot slower so the confusion is less likely to cause a collision, or at least reduce the severity. I walk the kids to school across here every day and it's a huge improvement for pedestrians. Almost all vehicles stop to help us cross now, when previously only a small minority did.

    • @DGCNYO
      @DGCNYO 29 днів тому

      Allowing pedestrians to go first during times of confusion reduces chaos factors, making people more willing to let pedestrians go first. This is an effective psychological design, though the motivation may not be entirely noble.

  • @Gordanovich02
    @Gordanovich02 Місяць тому +17

    Call me backwards but I feel road markings should be clearly recognisable even in poor visibility or if the markings are partly worn off. We do after all live in a country where it rains a lot and from now until sometime in March everyone is driving home in darkness.
    And that means standardised markings, using only white paint on tarmac, or with some additional black contrasting if it's concrete.
    It's also what assistance dogs are taught to recognise.

  • @youdevvy
    @youdevvy Місяць тому +16

    A lot of local context for you from a pretty much local:
    - You're correct that the funding for this came largely from the developers in Arborfield, with a wodge dedicated to revamping California Crossroads. The council put up these plans years ago about redoing the former twin roundabouts in to a "mixed traffic area". Pretty much everyone had a fit about it. It's taken years to come to some kind of tentative agreement, mostly because the funding from the developers apparently was about to expire as "not used", so it basically had to be spent or it would be lost. Somehow that focussed a few minds.
    - The original plans, unbelievably specifically wanted to *not* have the middle of the "roundabouts" "between the lanes" crossing refuge. No idea what to call it. But they specifically didn't want it so that it would force traffic to slow down more for crossing pedestrians. Locals had a fit; what isn't mentioned in the video is that behind the parade of shops is a busy primary school. Add a ton of young children and families trying to cross this at 08:00--09:00 and 14:45-15:45 ish, and you have a recipe for disaster, which seems obvious to most people, but apparently not a concern to the council as driver would slow down for this. The council backed down, and we got that half-way pedestrian crossing refuge point.
    - The council insisted they had visited other similar projects in the UK, and they "worked well". What wasn't clearly mentioned was that these other projects were almost entirely in urban areas where the average speeds are far lower. At California Crossroads, in most directions it's clear straight roads, which despite a 30mph limit is usually driven at 30-35 mph if you're kind, and 40mph if you're honest with yourself.
    - The council insisted on reversing the direction of the one-way through the shopping parade car park spaces, which a) confuses all the locals which have gone there for years, and b) means you have to reverse in to the diagonal car park spaces. Well, unless you're confused and you try a sharp turn to get in, which causes more chaos.
    - The junction is treated as two mini roundabouts still to be fair, and generally does what it's intended to for local car drivers. It is slower. However, it does nothing for goods vehicles, for which there are tons of delivery drivers and some lorries which come thundering through and don't want to slow down as delivery drivers are (understandably) always in a rush. In that regards, it's worse as the mini-roundabout bump is gone which slowed down the goods vehicles which couldn't go around them.
    - I agree the colours look nice when I drive through, and it does make you think "wtf is going on here" and usually slow down...until we all get used to it and speeds go back up.
    - PS. The council also renewed the lampposts with horrible weird things which are probably deemed as "artistic". Why we couldn't just have simple streetlights rather than wasting money on renewing them all with arty ones baffles me, but it's easy spending someone else's money.
    - PSPS: There were no easy diversions for this; my trips took a several mile diversion to get around it. The only easy diversion, between the N road and NE road (as you look at it on google maps), was signed by the council to use the A road further away, but predictably all locals ignored it and diverted down a load of tiny residential roads. Gee, never saw that coming, probably 6 months of hell for those locals.
    - PSPSPS: Interested to know how it looks in a few years when all the utility companies have dug it up and relaid it, and repainted it weirdly.

    • @stuartmiles1401
      @stuartmiles1401 Місяць тому +3

      And don't forget, the loading bay to the Co-Op is now at the entrance to the parking spaces so while the lorries are there nobody can get to the parking.

    • @johnkeepin7527
      @johnkeepin7527 Місяць тому +2

      It will look grey, and worn out, with all the white paint etc. And a few potholes as well.

    • @nickdawson9270
      @nickdawson9270 Місяць тому +2

      Thanks for taking the time to explain. Alas, all totally predictable when an organisation is given free "one-time" funding that, after prevaricating they waste before the funding evaporates.

    • @markmartindale7215
      @markmartindale7215 Місяць тому +1

      "confuses the locals" In the real world, species adapt or die!

  • @andyshepherd2739
    @andyshepherd2739 Місяць тому +72

    I've driven it, it's crazy. Roundabouts have rules, a priority, this is now a free for all where everyone is uncertain, people panic commit. Overtime locals might commit to normal behaviour, but new drivers to the area will cause issues

    • @mikecrimlis3366
      @mikecrimlis3366 Місяць тому +10

      I just barge through, there's no other way. Local drivers tend to be dithering middle class Karens who love stopping on main roads to let people out of side roads. The insane number of housing estates being built all around the area are going to burst their little bubble.

    • @tomk8729
      @tomk8729 Місяць тому +2

      Van drivers heading south from Wokingham towards Fleet and Farnham took no prisoners on the old pair of roundabouts, I wonder how that's going to work here.

    • @Yandex-y1p
      @Yandex-y1p Місяць тому +1

      Actually once on a roundabout there is no priority. Technically no speed limit either.

    • @dimitriousdrake
      @dimitriousdrake Місяць тому +7

      This is a F nightmare. I drive it almost every day, I live right next to it. The amount of times people just go when you're hoping they treat it as a roundabout... It won't be long until something happens

    • @frankupton5821
      @frankupton5821 Місяць тому +8

      Rule 1: aim for the gaps
      Rule 2: don't stop
      Rule 3: there is NO Rule 3.

  • @bendrummond3063
    @bendrummond3063 Місяць тому +76

    Funny how the car driving the fastest in this video was a white audi, never would have guessed 😂

    • @enisra_bowman
      @enisra_bowman Місяць тому +3

      my bet would have been on a beamer

    • @gavin18787
      @gavin18787 Місяць тому +2

      Came here to post the same. Just as he mentions speed token audi launches over speed bump right on cue 😂

    • @antonycharnock2993
      @antonycharnock2993 Місяць тому +4

      Late for their nail appointment.

    • @SampleTracks2224
      @SampleTracks2224 Місяць тому

      ​@@enisra_bowmanAs the Bard once said, all the cocks have moved into Audis

    • @tomarse99
      @tomarse99 Місяць тому

      Ah wasn’t the only one that clicked it going far to fast

  • @MareSerenitis
    @MareSerenitis Місяць тому +24

    There's a similar dumbell "not roundabout" in Poynton in Cheshire, that was put in over a decade ago when the whole area was re-built / pedestrianised.
    It works in principle & definitely does make drivers slow down. But it absolutely cannot cope with even mild amounts of traffic because the lack of markings encourage (some) drivers to do very silly things.
    It replaced a signalled crossroads that was notoriously shite, but sometimes it feels frustratingly un-optimal.

    • @TheOffertonhatter
      @TheOffertonhatter Місяць тому +3

      Having said that, even old locals like myself know and slow down. But obviously the A523 bypass has helped a lot now lessening the traffic in the centre. Also Park Lane personally works a treat.

    • @andykilvington1651
      @andykilvington1651 Місяць тому +4

      Jon's done a feature on this I think? My kid bro lives about 150 yards from this crossing - it works really well (I used to work in Poynton donkeys years ago and the old crossroads was dire).

  • @themabozza
    @themabozza Місяць тому +44

    Nice street art.
    What happens when there is an accident between cars or a pedestrian hit?
    The road markings make it unclear and more difficult to work out fault.
    Is it it a roundabout? Is it an uncontrolled junction?
    Who has right of way?
    Interesting to see that some drivers filmed during the vids were not slowed down at all, which may render the experiment as void, in time certainly.

    • @hedydd2
      @hedydd2 Місяць тому +5

      Not an issue. It’s ALWAYS the driver’s fault. Not the Council’s. Not the pedestrian’s. Certainly not be bycicalist however reckless or dangerous or entitled they are.

    • @imaginitivity7853
      @imaginitivity7853 Місяць тому +5

      It's soon going to be further embellished with chalk outlines of dread bodies😂

    • @adambro5480
      @adambro5480 Місяць тому +6

      @@hedydd2 I mean you are correct, in the overwhelming majority of cases it is going to be the driver's fault. That's just the reality.

    • @hedydd2
      @hedydd2 Місяць тому

      @@adambro5480 The reality is that is who gets blamed regardless of someone’s attempt to clean the gene pool.

    • @lp9280
      @lp9280 Місяць тому +3

      @@hedydd2 I agree with you that this is basically the precedent in UK. Basically, by default everyone assumes drivers fault. But to be honest in this case I think there is strong legal basis for lawsuit.
      Basically two cars crash and because there is no way to tell whose fault it was, because road markings are not only not clear, but literally illegal... then responsibility shifts on road owners (council) and both parties then sue council. I don't know what would be outcome, but legally it sounds like council would be at fault... actually - criminally at fault, because making illegal markings on the roads is criminal offence.

  • @Miles-xu8lr
    @Miles-xu8lr Місяць тому +8

    The other concern locally is that those leaf patterns all over the tarmac like a children’s playground. I’m sure that can only end well…..

  • @Welgeldiguniekalias
    @Welgeldiguniekalias Місяць тому +50

    Heck yeah, slather those road markings on there nice and thick. Bikers love it!
    🏍+🍁=🚑

    • @Pystro
      @Pystro Місяць тому +6

      Yeah, that might actually be a problem. At first I noticed that in the fall, natural leaves would obfuscate the painted leaf pattern. But it does work the other way around too. With painted leaves, you may not be able to tell which leaves are the slippery natural kind. Luckily the painted ones are 2-3 times as large as the natural ones, so you should have a pretty good clue as to which one is which. But still, some other motif than leaves and avoiding any color that comes too close to the natural "fall leaves maroon-to-beige" spectrum would probably be slightly better.

    • @oldblueshirtguy
      @oldblueshirtguy Місяць тому +10

      @@Pystro The issue is that large painted areas are themselves much more slippery than the road surface underneath. It might only cause a car to take a few extra metres to stop but a bike can literally go sideways on a badly placed road marking.

    • @jean-lucpicard5510
      @jean-lucpicard5510 Місяць тому

      Spare parts for the NHS.

  • @alexmadgwick634
    @alexmadgwick634 Місяць тому +11

    On a similar vein we have the sh!tshow that is Bodmin, Cornwall. Here we have two separate round-a-junctions who's only markings are the different shades of granite they are made from. Both are round. One is used as a roundabout, the other (frustratingly the one with poor visibility) is not. Then to top it off, the upgrades were widely advertised as making the busy road a shared space, so the slightly different shade markings spanning each exit are considered crossings, so while you are busy making sure nobody is side-swiping you as you pull out, a pedestrian has nonchalantly started making their way across in front of you!

  • @Senshikaji
    @Senshikaji Місяць тому +22

    They tried something similar in Ashford (Kent) and called it a 'shared space'........
    Ended about as well as expected when pedestrians, buses & trucks are expected to 'share' the same bit of space...........

    • @SwimBikeRunFastest
      @SwimBikeRunFastest Місяць тому +1

      They did exactly the same in Southend. With no obvious road markings and segregation, pedestrians kept walking into the road.

    • @q3b26
      @q3b26 Місяць тому

      I did a study on Ashford's Elwick Road a few years ago, it actually does work well. The main issue with the space are the traffic lights just outside County Square. They're so close to the shared space, it confuses drivers AND pedestrians into thinking that this is the designated crossing space when in theory pedestrians should be able to cross at any point.
      Either way though, it's a big improvement for pedestrians than the multi-lane ring road that used to be there.

  • @oconnell88
    @oconnell88 Місяць тому +10

    I live here, it’s flipping awful. Looks like a kids play park and all my kids want to do is hop on each of the leafs 🤦🏻‍♂️

  • @JSmith19858
    @JSmith19858 Місяць тому +10

    This is great until neglect means the patterns have worn away and there is just a junction with no markings at all left. No doubt it works well in wealthy areas of California where they can afford to keep on top of maintenance

  • @bobstirling6885
    @bobstirling6885 Місяць тому +15

    At this time of year all the leaf markings are obscured by.....leaves.....🤣

    • @ncot_tech
      @ncot_tech Місяць тому +5

      Wrong kind of leaves on the road.

  • @Joe20231-p
    @Joe20231-p Місяць тому +10

    the problem will come when drivers who have never seen this before meet drivers who drive around this on a daily basis (who aren’t confused by it)

  • @robertjones3223
    @robertjones3223 Місяць тому +92

    Be interesting to hear what happens when an accident happens on the junction and with no normal road signs and markings the insurance companies blame council and not each others drivers, then all accident claims on junction becomes a bill to council, it want last long after that

    • @Skorpychan
      @Skorpychan Місяць тому +5

      Give it a week.

    • @tonypacke6954
      @tonypacke6954 Місяць тому +6

      Exactly what I was thinking.

    • @tomsixsix
      @tomsixsix Місяць тому +3

      If an accident occurs in an area without defined priority, insurance companies will just go 50/50 on it.

    • @NeilReddin
      @NeilReddin Місяць тому +10

      Or worse, the design gets blamed at a coroner's inquest.

    • @robertjones3223
      @robertjones3223 Місяць тому +2

      @@NeilReddin that's good point

  • @JizzleWright1
    @JizzleWright1 Місяць тому +1

    Surreal to see the place i grew up featured on a youtube video. If you're ever back in Finchampstead you should go to California country park, there used to be a speedway track there though there isn't much evidence left

  • @thewrongbike7709
    @thewrongbike7709 Місяць тому +12

    Leaves on the road is an invitation for motorcyclists to lose all grip in the wet and fall umder a truck. Nice!

  • @SpikerTHEFIRST
    @SpikerTHEFIRST Місяць тому +1

    Should cover the centre of Poynton which is a weird monstrosity of a shared space with a double roundabout to boot.

  • @madgardener5820
    @madgardener5820 Місяць тому +94

    I thought the whole point of curbs/kerbs was to provide a physical barrier between traffic and pedestrian, for, you know, safety. This seems like the idea setting for a car to mount the kerb and hit a row of pedestrians waiting at a bus stop.

    • @mRowden100
      @mRowden100 Місяць тому +21

      Would a higher curb stop an inattentive driver? The idea of the space being more 'shared' to force drivers to pay more attention, as mentioned in the vid.

    • @nathanw9770
      @nathanw9770 Місяць тому +4

      Bus stops wouldn't be on the roundabout or that close to the kerb.

    • @MrDannyDetail
      @MrDannyDetail Місяць тому +6

      My thought too. If a driver accidentally bumps a kerb they will get what is called 'tactile feedback' which will (I'd hope) cause them to instinctively correct their course away from the path. Remove the kerb and bring everything level and instead they might bump into the first thing that they instead make contact with, which might be a pedestrian, cyclist, wheelchair or pram/ buggy. No kerb is going to completely prevent a vehicle from reaching a path, nor offer much by way of protection from the traffic for people who find themselves in the path of a vehicle mounting the footpath, but kerbs are still valuable in that they give drivers that first early warning that they are adrift from the correct line of the road (which on this road layout with no proper road markings is surely going to be a more regular occurrence in itself).

    • @MervynPartin
      @MervynPartin Місяць тому +1

      This is the main reason why I hate pedestrianised roads in town centres (e.g. King's Lynn), where delivery lorries and vans are allowed to use the same space as people. When there were separate pavements with kerbs, traffic and people stayed apart.

    • @richardharding8438
      @richardharding8438 Місяць тому +6

      @@MervynPartin Did they really? Didn't you get delivery drivers just parking on the pavements anyway? The only way to keep us inconsiderate motorists literally in our lane is to put bollards or barriers up.
      What is needed is a change of attitude away from "I'm in a car and everything should be made easier for me" towards sharing our spaces, especially in towns, with all their users.

  • @xandergreenwood158
    @xandergreenwood158 Місяць тому +1

    Good video John. Maybe have a look at the "shared space" redesign of Poynton, Cheshire a few years back. Radical idea that fell flat on its arse and had to be somewhat undesigned to fix it.

  • @SteveNixon
    @SteveNixon Місяць тому +10

    I live locally and have to cross that roundabout regularly. The crossings with their white leaf markings are fine. A bit weird, but you get used to it, and people approaching, or crossing, at the junctions helps concentrate the mind. The problem is the coloured leaves themselves. With the middle part of the mini roundabouts gone, cars just drive straight over to where they need to be. Rights of way and normal traffic rules be damned. Especially vans!
    It's OK if you approach it yourself, but if I see anyone else on approach it's better to stop and see what genius maneuver they are going to pull off before I venture out!

    • @Gordanovich02
      @Gordanovich02 Місяць тому +7

      Well if it's not clearly defined as a roundabout (or two roundabouts) then roundabout rules don't apply.

    • @davem9204
      @davem9204 Місяць тому +3

      Are they even mini-roundabouts now? There's no symbol or signs to show that they are, so surely mini-roundabout rules don't apply here? It appears to be a free-for-all here, where they are no rules. It's even debatable where the pavement ends and the road starts.

  • @Ranalol
    @Ranalol Місяць тому +1

    I accidentally drove on this on Tuesday and now there’s a video on this! You could tell there was hesitation, approaching it had queues too. Im sure it’ll get dug up at some point and be a waste but they’ve still got a obsession for the A327 so it’s safe for now

  • @mathewchild2492
    @mathewchild2492 Місяць тому +5

    Another reason why the improvements will probably be short lived is local drivers will get used to it and the novelty will wear off leaving them back to square one

    • @mikecrimlis3366
      @mikecrimlis3366 Місяць тому +1

      The only problem with it in the first place was that there were 2 roundabouts next to each other, all they had to do was make it one big one in the middle.

  • @MrCamonBear
    @MrCamonBear Місяць тому +1

    So many memories of California from the times of Depot REME at Arborfield Garrison.

  • @twocvbloke
    @twocvbloke Місяць тому +18

    Seems more like someone went to california, sampled some of the local vegetation, and came back with "we need to de-stripe and use leaves everywhere maaaaaaan!!!"...

  • @darrenpotter6297
    @darrenpotter6297 Місяць тому +15

    Love it or loath it, regardless of if the approach eventually works or not, I've got to give it to the council for at least trying something different to see if it works or what can be learnt from it.

    • @mikecrimlis3366
      @mikecrimlis3366 Місяць тому +4

      Fine for you, you don't have to deal with the bloody thing!

    • @SubPablum
      @SubPablum Місяць тому +2

      The California way is to never admit something isn't working and double down.

    • @wurlycorner
      @wurlycorner Місяць тому

      ​@@SubPablumand the non California way is never admit when things are good in California and double down on that line.

    • @spiderbootsy
      @spiderbootsy Місяць тому +4

      road markings are standardised for a reason

  • @chasevans7171
    @chasevans7171 Місяць тому +3

    Looks like a primary school playground. I reckon a hopscotch thing painted in the middle would finish it off nicely.

  • @simonbaxter8001
    @simonbaxter8001 Місяць тому +6

    They did this kind of junction and 'shared space' in Poynton, Cheshire and it's a complete nightmare and accident blackspot!

  • @DeepSpaceNetwork
    @DeepSpaceNetwork Місяць тому

    spectacular lighting for this episode. Looks beautiful

  • @andykilvington1651
    @andykilvington1651 Місяць тому +2

    Nine Mile Ride - used to rehearse in the village hall there - some 40 something years ago. Also near the stunning Wellingtonia Avenue - some of the tallest redwoods inn the country (so I'm told).

  • @andrewdolinskiatcarpathian
    @andrewdolinskiatcarpathian Місяць тому +7

    Hi Jon. Glad you picked up on this oddity. I remain unsure whether the new layout is safe or not. 🤔

    • @tonypacke6954
      @tonypacke6954 Місяць тому +2

      Or even legal.

    • @mikecrimlis3366
      @mikecrimlis3366 Місяць тому +6

      I drive it every day, it's not safe and it hasn't improved the situation at all..

    • @Stealth360stealth
      @Stealth360stealth Місяць тому +2

      I live 2 miles from here, 100% it is worse than it previously was

  • @kimifur
    @kimifur Місяць тому +1

    I grew up in Wokingham and this junction was always a confusing mess. Very uninviting for pedetrians in what is quite a pedestrian-heavy area with the houses and retail nearby. Thank you for this video.

  • @Hectorsdad
    @Hectorsdad Місяць тому +1

    Just love your delivery style. Keep it up John.

  • @TsiolkovskySportingLocks
    @TsiolkovskySportingLocks Місяць тому +4

    Heck we've got these occuring in Frome now as part of the Safer Schools project. As part of which was changing the priorites on a cross road by a school and so far in two months that have been four smashes... thankfully zero when school kids are about but I reckon its only a matter of time.

  • @sputumtube
    @sputumtube Місяць тому +5

    If there was an accident, I wonder if drivers could use the non-standard road markings as a defence?

  • @parcel2025
    @parcel2025 Місяць тому +1

    Wow, talk about thinkin outside the box!

  • @trentr9762
    @trentr9762 Місяць тому +6

    They could've just raised the junction to curb level, speed bump markings on all the enterances and paved it with bricks. That would've shown its a pedestrian space and one giant crossing and would've done it in a safer clearer way. They've done that down where I live quite a bit and it works well

  • @raymondflanagan9355
    @raymondflanagan9355 Місяць тому +5

    Unfamiliarity is only valid the first time you do something. Since it will be mostly local drivers using it they would ultimately end up getting fast again.

  • @JulianJLW
    @JulianJLW Місяць тому +1

    Poynton in Cheshire has had a similar scheme for many years. It would be interesting to find out how successful it is. Perhaps it would also be more useful than loads of us who haven't actually experienced the scheme giving our perspective on the lack of road markings.

  • @ukzoinks
    @ukzoinks Місяць тому +5

    So many junctions/roundabout/roads are confusing already as the road markings are rarely maintained as they wear away. I predict the same for this one.

  • @rogink
    @rogink Місяць тому +8

    I've no problem with a bit of innovation. As well as uncertainty slowing drivers down adding a bit of fun and playfulness could do the same.
    The main problem is that we continue to funnel busy traffic through what should be attractive urban areas. And then add to the problem by funnelling even more traffic from new housing estates.

    • @mikecrimlis3366
      @mikecrimlis3366 Місяць тому +2

      You mean rural?
      Finchampstead is not urban, thankfully.

    • @rogink
      @rogink Місяць тому

      @@mikecrimlis3366 You have an odd definition of rural. Going by the level of traffic in the video, it's pretty much urban.
      And whatever it is now, as he mentioned, it's not going to be for long. No doubt it will join up with the rest if the urban sprawl between Reading and Guildford.

  • @martinharper5112
    @martinharper5112 Місяць тому +1

    Same system incorporated in Poynton Cheshire. Then they also did the shopping main road too. Peds get right away, cars dodge and weave the unmarked path ways with suicide walking in open access road. And it has a double roundabout connected with cycle way (anyway) round it. Give it a try........at your peril.😂

  • @jimmydesouza4375
    @jimmydesouza4375 Місяць тому +11

    In the words of a driving legend, "When in doubt, flat out!"

  • @tobyjackman3212
    @tobyjackman3212 Місяць тому

    This is the best video I've ever seen _about_ anything

  • @chrishorrocks4882
    @chrishorrocks4882 Місяць тому +1

    They have done this in Poynton outside Manchester ... a town centre of 2 mini-roundabouts replaced with curb drops and flower boxes, it's named a 'Pedestrian & Vehicle shared space'. Now to me this suggests that vehicles can drive on pavements... sharing is sharing after all...

  • @deancosens5710
    @deancosens5710 Місяць тому +1

    I was quite curious about this - in the Netherlands something similar has been used in which signage and lights are removed at road junctions, which means apparently that road users have to slow down, and interact with other road users, with studies apparently showing that it allowed motorists to make eye contact, which allowed them to communicate and reduced accidents. This from 'The Shaping Of Us' by Lily Bernheimer. Even if it is the case that it works, I am pretty sure none of the wild road markings were involved, so obviously someone at that council took the idea of making it so motorists have to figure it out for themselves a BIT too literally!

  • @jameshg1900
    @jameshg1900 Місяць тому

    That's just near where I grew up. I remember when there were no mini-roundabouts - just a busy crossroads with no traffic lights.

  • @Goldie644
    @Goldie644 Місяць тому +3

    It will be interesting to see the accident stats for it in a years time - just the brief time you were filming several vehicles cut straight across whereas previously they would have gone around the mini-roundabouts.

    • @imaginitivity7853
      @imaginitivity7853 Місяць тому +4

      One of the key safety aspects of a roundabout is that in deflecting the vehicles from a straight path, any collisions are less likely to be 'T bone' type side on collisions. This 'innovation' eliminates that benefit

    • @davem9204
      @davem9204 Місяць тому

      Many accidents on mini-roundabouts are caused by drivers going around the symbol as others drivers misread their line assuming they are going left or straight-on, and pull out on them. So many of those dash-cam YT sites show this happening a lot.
      With these non-standard junctions with random paint, the problem will drivers not knowing who has priority and just pulling out on each other.

  • @gargoyle7863
    @gargoyle7863 Місяць тому

    I think this is a brilliant idea.

  • @RenéVink-e2f
    @RenéVink-e2f Місяць тому

    Here in the Netherlands we've got entire streets that are uniquely designed with all sorts of colors, pavements and often wacky markings. One tends to kind of ignore all of that after so many of the urban roads are like that, especially if it's not your first time driving a specific route...

  • @NTLBagpuss
    @NTLBagpuss Місяць тому +4

    And the first time a motorist knocks someone down on that crossing, and can point out that legally it isn't a crossing?

  • @barryfoster453
    @barryfoster453 Місяць тому

    One of the first mini roundabouts was not too far from there at Pangbourne, near Reading. It worked because it made everyone wary of who would go first. Even though I'm a car freak, it's good that everyone slows down (that white Audi didn't). But I see this will cause an accident which will end up in court soon, as the lawyers will successfully argue that the road markings simply don't comply with regulations. Pretty, it may be, but rules are rules. A driver's lawyer is going to successfully state that the 'give way' markings aren't actually give way markings.

  • @Zergboy2
    @Zergboy2 Місяць тому +1

    I used to get the bus route through the junction and it was a mess with large vehicles crossing on the mini roundabouts so hopefully this is an improvement

  • @zogzoogler
    @zogzoogler Місяць тому

    For a moment I thought you had gone on tour to the US&A which would be an inspired next step for the channel imo. Frickin sweet awesome and all that.

  • @aleccoates9094
    @aleccoates9094 Місяць тому +82

    The highway code states you MUST give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing (and this is backed up with laws). The highway code does NOT state anything in regards to leaf shaped crossings (nor are there any laws protecting pedestrians on leaf crossings). It seems dubious to call this safer for pedestrians rather than use the thing that actually legally protects them.

    • @nobodydoesithalfasgoodasyou
      @nobodydoesithalfasgoodasyou Місяць тому +14

      Unless you're saying the leaf patterns disqualify it from being a junction then I think the new hierarchy of road users rules mean that pedestrians have priority regardless of the road markings. Presumably the council will have taken legal advice before proceeding. Whether it's wise to make UK practice diverge from international expectations is up for debate.

    • @wileysneak
      @wileysneak Місяць тому +8

      this is misinformation, the highway code states "when people are crossing or waiting to cross at a junction, other traffic should give way [...] if people have started crossing and traffic wants to turn into the road, the people crossing have priority and the traffic should give way" jan 29 2022

    • @PhillipParr
      @PhillipParr Місяць тому +8

      "SHOULD" != "MUST"

    • @aleccoates9094
      @aleccoates9094 Місяць тому +5

      @@PhillipParr ^This is what I was referring to. Parts of the highway code that say MUST are directly legally defined and enforceable, unlike SHOULD which would just fall under a general dangerous driving offense at best and no prosecution at worst.

    • @mgdavid1380
      @mgdavid1380 Місяць тому +7

      @@wileysneak you've taken that out of context. The quote is referring to T junctions i.e. a main road and a side road. This is neither T junction nor roundabout, as while there are some indications of both, the signage is incomplete, conflicting and does not comply with the laws on road signs and markings.

  • @simonsaville9962
    @simonsaville9962 Місяць тому +4

    Looks like a nice place for a picnic, cream tea anyone?

  • @terry6131
    @terry6131 Місяць тому +2

    Interesting there's CCTV looking over it. I suspect the council knows there's going to be issues and looked for ways to absolve themselves.

  • @lenrichardson7349
    @lenrichardson7349 Місяць тому +2

    When the unfamiliar becomes familiar the speed and danger will return.

  • @damedavidfrith55
    @damedavidfrith55 Місяць тому

    Sounds a crazy but good idea more of them please 😊

  • @rossserpant5827
    @rossserpant5827 Місяць тому

    I approve of the use of the GT auto song at the end👍

  • @doctorsatansrobot
    @doctorsatansrobot Місяць тому

    Similar was done in Dunstable years ago, albeit less imaginatively. It was only a few months before the 'courtesy crossings' had to be painted over with zebra crossings because cars simply didn't stop, and the roundabouts, bus lanes and centrelines all got painted in because cars were driving where they weren't supposed to.

  • @markrgreenlane
    @markrgreenlane Місяць тому

    Oooo, I do love an outtake!

  • @charliefreck
    @charliefreck Місяць тому +1

    The best review of this I have seen. I live local, personally I like it. But a step too far for most people. A few normal road markings would be the best of both worlds

    • @lemonladyYT
      @lemonladyYT Місяць тому +1

      I'm wondering if that would be visual overwhelm though. Trying to see the normal road markings amongst all the leaf clutter may slow many drivers down but it also takes eyes off the pedestrian risk for longer.

  • @roy-wg7dz
    @roy-wg7dz Місяць тому +1

    Surely these road markings should be included in the highway code!!!

  • @matticulas
    @matticulas 29 днів тому

    The council did the same thing to 2 mini roundabouts on the Stanningley road in Leeds. At first all drivers were thrown by it but soon locals were treating it just like the 2 mini roundabouts it had been marked as before. However, drivers who didn't know it proceeded through it like a learner driver on their first lesson, especially once all the weird road marking has worn off. The mix of the two types didn't seem to aid safety for drivers or the pedestrians. Fast forward a few years and the council reinstated all the usual mini roundabout signs and road markings and everything now seems to work a bit better.

  • @Pystro
    @Pystro Місяць тому +1

    The only thing I don't get is why there is a pedestrian crossing in the center (between the two roundabouts). That's the section where there will be almost twice as much traffic as on the approach roads; and motor traffic about to enter that section may be more occupied with predicting what motorists in the second roundabout will do than with pedestrians. And any pedestrian that would cross there would either come from or leave along the sidewalks along the roads (or both). I.e. they'll have to pass one or two of the approach sections where the other 4 crossings are. Yes, the shortcut through the center is ever so slightly shorter than crossing two of the approaches, but by only like 3 or 4 meters.

  • @jacobkilby
    @jacobkilby Місяць тому +2

    This is really near where I grew up - it does sit on a fairly busy route out of Wokingham, and as much as the double roundabouts weren't great, they did what they needed to do. Probably needed a couple of extra pedestrian crossings rather than ditching all the roundabouts completely.

    • @mikecrimlis3366
      @mikecrimlis3366 Місяць тому +1

      I've always thought it should have been made into one big roundabout.

  • @nickbannister775
    @nickbannister775 Місяць тому

    Crikey that has changed since I knew it back in the day when dad would drive to California Cross as back in the sixties it was the only shop open on a Sunday, then it was all pine forests and beautiful lakes, oh well that’s progress.

  • @evilutionltd
    @evilutionltd Місяць тому +2

    I guess it's like when traffic lights fail and everyone panics and slows down and pays more attention.
    Reminds me of the fake speed bumps they painted on the roads (51.500925, 0.069191) which worked for a few days until people had driven over it once.

  • @weldybren
    @weldybren Місяць тому +2

    There used to be a great twitter account that used to feature dubious pieces of civil infrastructure, was called bollocksinfra 😅 This would have been a good fit.

  • @martinrwolfe
    @martinrwolfe Місяць тому +1

    Just looking at it the correct solution gine the space and layout was to thurn the junction into a dumbell roundabout. It would eliminate crossing trafic streams and make it easier for pedestrians as when crossing a lane of trafic they would only have to look one way rather than four directions at once. By all means keep the pedestrian crossings close to the ends of the road that feed to the junction. Personaly I think that those markings are illeagal. Also I would read the Stop/Giveway lines as a mandatory stop on exiting the crossings as painted dut to the solid line the crossing side of the markings and only giveway on entry to the crossings.

  • @17luke
    @17luke Місяць тому +2

    I'd hate to try turn on those painted leaves on a bike in the wet!

  • @CableWrestler
    @CableWrestler Місяць тому

    This reminds me very much of the shared space scheme in Ashford Kent

  • @MrPhobart
    @MrPhobart Місяць тому +2

    I went through this junction just after it opened, and I still don’t know if I used it the right way. The lack of clarity slowed me down but the general confusion meant I was more likely to be in an accident.

  • @Icon1an
    @Icon1an Місяць тому +3

    As people get familiar with this junction, they will stop going slower and approach faster, making it more dangerous for pedestrian later on.

  • @kristopherharvey3499
    @kristopherharvey3499 Місяць тому +6

    No longer a junction. Just a piece of carriageway with illegal marking (which will quickly fade).

    • @ianholloway3778
      @ianholloway3778 Місяць тому

      Of course it is still a junction. Several roads still meet. How are the roads surface colourings illegal?

    • @kristopherharvey3499
      @kristopherharvey3499 Місяць тому +2

      @ianholloway3778 the road markings do not adhere to those defined in legislation

    • @ianholloway3778
      @ianholloway3778 Місяць тому

      @@kristopherharvey3499 that's only an issue if you define them as road markings. Dragon's teeth markings sometimes placed on each side of a lane on the approach to the start of a lower speed limit are clearly white thermoplastic paint like the road markings defined in the regulations but the government trunk road manual DMRB explicitly states they are not road markings so it's OK so the triangles marks can be whatever size you want.

  • @Will_3rd
    @Will_3rd Місяць тому

    Haha this is just up to road from where I bought my current Ford. Will have to go check it out!

  • @mops519
    @mops519 Місяць тому

    I know this area a bit. Used to cut through the petrol station to skip the queue to the roundabout 😂

  • @Technaudio
    @Technaudio Місяць тому

    There is a 4 road junction in Coventry, Gosford St. Whitefriars St. Cox St. & Jordans Well. It used to have traffic lights, but they took them out and replaced it with a rectangle of red tarmac. There are no road markings at all on it. I treat it like a mini roundabout, but I'm not really sure what you're supposed to do at it.

  • @JonathanCreaser
    @JonathanCreaser Місяць тому +2

    I came across this junction a few nights ago... it was very dark and raining and I wasn't familiar with the area. I thought I'd entered the twilight zone when I came across this monstrosity. It confused the living h*ll out of me. I'm sure it won't be long before there's a serious accident on it.

  • @PaddyWV
    @PaddyWV Місяць тому

    Bobbles on the pavement or not, no kerbs can be a nightmare for the Visually Impaired!

  • @MummaBear
    @MummaBear Місяць тому +2

    Garden village. Means she'd load of houses with a set of swings.

  • @Ra-zor
    @Ra-zor Місяць тому

    Imagine an accident and filling out the claims form 'did you abide by the UK regulatory road markings' to which you would reply 'there were none, only something the local junior school must have left behind after a field trip'

  • @MePeterNicholls
    @MePeterNicholls Місяць тому

    It’s worth trying. There’s a lot of theories and studies on this.

  • @stuartmiller6725
    @stuartmiller6725 Місяць тому +7

    That'll be a nighmare when you're pissed up!

  • @tommiller1315
    @tommiller1315 Місяць тому +4

    Traffic hold-up - wrong type of leaves on the road! 🤣
    Now where is this road layout in the "Highway Code"?

  • @frankupton5821
    @frankupton5821 Місяць тому +1

    Said a traffic designer from Wokingham
    "Pedestrians - traffic is choking 'em"
    He rolled up his sleeves
    And panted some leaves.
    "I'm sure this'll work - I'm not joking 'em!"

  • @AaronLaw92
    @AaronLaw92 Місяць тому

    We had the leaves a few years ago in Cov - just temporary in the end...

  • @minibus9
    @minibus9 Місяць тому

    awesome video

  • @iandavies8412
    @iandavies8412 Місяць тому

    You need to take a look at the A554 and Town Wharf junction on the Wirral.

  • @phillwainewright4221
    @phillwainewright4221 Місяць тому +57

    Are those road markings legal? They certainly don't conform to the regulations.

    • @TedJM
      @TedJM Місяць тому +10

      that is what i am thinking as well, i have never seen a leaf on the road in any of my theory tests

    • @mikecrimlis3366
      @mikecrimlis3366 Місяць тому +15

      Even the solid line and dashed line are the wrong way around meaning that you technically give way to yourself.

    • @tonypacke6954
      @tonypacke6954 Місяць тому +31

      @@TedJM Also, I wonder if you unfortunately knocked someone down, with a smart lawyer you could probably sue the council for not providing adequate road sense information, especially if this set-up is not in the highway code. Some of these councils are a law unto themselves.

    • @lefthandedspanner
      @lefthandedspanner Місяць тому +24

      since they're not in line with regulations, they're legally meaningless

    • @nickdawson9270
      @nickdawson9270 Місяць тому +2

      Could be construed as camouflage or mere decoration. Certainly not in the Highway Code.

  • @RobertMihalache
    @RobertMihalache Місяць тому

    Interesting video thanks for sharing

  • @Thomas_C-j4w
    @Thomas_C-j4w Місяць тому

    There is one of these in Streatham in London thats sll colorful and has bits sticking out to "calm traffic"

  • @AL71B
    @AL71B Місяць тому

    Have to say that looks crazy. Maybe designed by the kids in the local primary school!