You have a real gift for explaining the complex and difficult task of being a good GM/DM and simplifying it so that it can be well understood. I have been playing RPGs since 1978 and your channel has some of the best advice for GM/DMs that I have ever seen.
Great advice. I'll share one other tip (which I am sure you have mentioned in a previous video as well) - make sure the type of camping is clear to your players, and you get their buy-in. In September I migrated my PCs from 5e to Dolmenwood (Basically BECMI type game system). I went from running adventure path type adventures to a big sandbox and after six months my players told me they don't like sandboxes, they prefer the adventure paths. It didn't even occur to me my players wouldn't like sandbox as it was "just one of the ways we played" back in the day. They much prefer having and adventure path. And, to be honest, when I look back at all the campaigns I have had with them there has always been an adventure path in place of some kind with hex-crawls/side quests/ some open world as a "add on" but not the core game. So that was on me as well. In terms of adventure paths I have had great success with man of the Paizo ones. They are easy to modify for whatever system (5e or OSR). However, I do find the most memorable ones for my PCs have been ones I heavily modify/customise for them. Some of the ones I have played off the top of my head: * The Shackled City (the first to coin the term "adventure path" pretty novel back in 2003 or so (or whenever it came out). * The Jade Regent (Oreintal Adventures, though mainly Japanese). * The Iron Gods (science-fantasy in the mould of S3). * And about to start Reign of Winter (Slavic fairy tale). * Oddyssey of the Dragonlords (Greco-Roman) I have had little success with the 5e versions, they are all so bland (like Strahd, Abyss etc).
This is my favorite type of campaign to run and as such I have a couple points I would like to add. 1. I treat each "tier" the same way I would if I were a showrunner making a season of a TV show that I'm not sure will get renewed. Especially if what you are planning is a real long-form multi-year campaign, you need to be prepared for the scheduling monster to attack, which is not all that different from an actor departing or a network canceling your show. Give yourself an oppurtunity to give a satisfying conclusion, but with the promise of more to come. Always be working towards that "season finale" even if you don't know that you'll ever get to the "series finale." And you can do the same for your player's personal quests as well, so that even if they didn't get to their true end goal, they feel they progressed along the path and can imagine what else the future may hold for their character's journey even if they don't have the opportunity to continue it in game. Like for instance if a player character has a romance sub-plot going with a certain NPC, in season one they could get a kiss from that npc, in season 2 they start outright dating, in season 3 they meet the family, in season 4 they get engaged, and at the series finale they get married. Maybe the player never makes it to that true ending, but no matter where they get off the train, they had a small victory to end on. 2. Player buy-in is the key to this style of game. A reason that a lot of DM's don't use this style is because on paper is can seem like the "railroading" we are all trained to so desperately avoid. And it can turn into that, but only if your players don't want to follow the path you created. The key to avoiding that is simply to be on the same page as your players. Not just letting them know what kind of campaign you're running, but also getting them involved in shaping the narrative and themes. Help them tie their backstories into the tapestry of the adventure arc, give them the promise of exciting set pieces that intrest them personally to look foward to. As long as your players have agency over the story unfolding at your table, you aren't railroading. 3. You can't prepare for every situation. Make sure your players know that this isn't a sandbox, and you need time to prepare adventures. It's okay if they want to take a different path than the exact one you prepared, but feel free to tell your players that you will need to take a moment, or maybe even a whole week to alter what you had planned and taylor the adventure to their desires and actions.
Currently doing a Return of Orcus in Basic Fantasy. Your iseas align perfectly with the direction i was leaning towards, with the escwption of of the falling star in your example is the fall of an immortal lineage.
I've certainly done this. And you're absolutely right about dividing it into tiers/chucks. That's way my campaign prep process has the Four Feuding Factions. You can use the four factions in a four corner opposition approach to make a sandbox. But you can also place the four factions in succession and use one for each teir of play.
I ran World of Darkness games for years, most of them are intended for some version of storypath I appreciate this video because a lot of people ignore this version of game mastering
@BanditsKeep Anything but Vampire? Werewolf if you like the complicated morals of fighting evil. Changeling if you want to explore how the banality of life destroys our creativity Mage if you want to think about the nature of reality and your place in it. Vampire if you want to explore how the capacity for evil within us all influences both ourselves, but our societies. All of these have relatively dense systems, but all share core mechanics. So if you learn one, you can play any. The "definitive" editions are the 20th Anniversary books, but several versions are fun. Reach out if you want to talk more about it!
I am DM'ng an adventure path that has run continuously since 1989. "Search for the Silver Wing" a take on the Rise of Tiamat (before Dragonlance was published) although I use all of the setting items, (draconians, &c.) in the Greyhawk setting set in 717cy ( that way canon can remain) .. where the creater of the Soul Gem -- (C-2) used it to capture the soul of Bahamut. 500yrs or so before my timeline (ok break with canon a bit) allowing for the building of the new dragon cult into a full blown religion as the chromatic armies re-order the Great Kingdom .. from undead Chaotic evil to Lawful authoritarian evil.. ever expanding to bring that order to chaotic realms - specifically the fae... I started it in University.. party died x2, and from 1993 til now, have run 4 additional groups (inclucing my current group of 15yrs) to restore Bahamut to his proper place as a counter balance to Tiamat. I never restart... just like you suggested , insert new chapters into the narrative ... to build the lore ... never boring, A LOT of book keeping, but probably the best - sandbox I can create.... as if the party marches off the main task -- the geo-politics still happen... I hope to have the party actually get to the Ghost Tower to complete it -- in my life time .. they are 60% there at 9th level .. but not necessary. Great content and thanks
I'm running a sort of adventure path right now in B/X Moldavy where a figure known as "The Lod of the Mountain" is setting up for a major land war in Western Karameikos in the D&D Known World. I followed a lot of this advice without having seen the video, but you offer up a couple of points I hadn't considered. I may course correct on some of the finer points. Great video, as always.
My first campaign was a 2-20 adventure path style. I didn’t know a lot about writing structure but I did know how JRPGs worked, so I basically used that format. Levels 2-4 were about exploring the world and discovering that something was rotten in the state of Denmark, capped by a fight with an evil Druid. Levels 5-10 were about killing lieutenants of this lich. 11-14 were about taking down the lich (during this phase the characters learned who the lich learned his secrets from). Then 15-20 were about taking out the guy who was behind the lich. I didn’t struggle with the structure so much as high level play and trying to “finish”. It took 2 and a half years. I’m running another adventure path type game with a lot more social and nonviolent solutions, and I’ve capped it at level 12. We’ll be wrapping soon, at almost exactly 1 year. That feels more manageable to me.
I've tried several approaches for this. I'll try and keep this succinct, or it'll turn into an essay. 1 of 3(ish). Linking modules and tying them in, together somehow. Seeded through, the surrounding area from their base. Sandbox with dungeons. Make your big bad and tie a faction, in each dungeon to it. Change the dressings, a bit if you have to. Eg. I tied the Sunless Citadel 5th Edition and converted Against the Cult of the Reptile god from AD&D, with plans to go to the Forge of Fury. Combined with either researched elements of 'Danger at Dark Shelf Quarry' or 'Deep Dwarven Delve'. With the idea of forging a weapon; to slay the Wendigo, an Avatar of Zuggtmoy. Tied that all together with the Twigblights even advancing some; to grow larger and develop with different abilities. This is Zuggtmoy's plan to reclaim the area for"rejuvenation" and 'regeneration'. Through destruction and rot and seed it, to the plants and funguses. 2 of 3(probably) Completely freeform. This is flexing, your on the fly muscles. Have them opposed to the Evil Lord, Mad Wizard, resurrection of a dead god etc. Insert whatever Lovecraftian scheme or Robert E Howard Dungeon at the end. Pull them into the schemes of the bad guys, through tiered exploration of the local area. I did this where my PC's defended a village, from a Bandit assault 3-5th lvl. Which led them back to a greedy pair of noble houses in a county over (5-6th level). One of which was dominated, by an Illithid cult. Then the ruined temple dungeon, to dismantle the cult and kill the illithids(7-9th) Level. This was all done, during my 3.5 Ed days. 3. Of 3. Locked theme and frame of narrative. I fell you should really need, to get the players to buy in. To this one. It's not my go to, I haven't run Curse of Strahd(ever). But it's how I'd run an adventure through a campaign setting guide. I still only use the elements present and adjust accordingly, to the players decisions and their overall wishes on story elements. 5th Edition seems way nerfed just as a side note.
Oh and bonus round. 4 of 3. Hombrew expansion of module, or Starter kits. I was running Dragons of Stormwreck Isle; for a hot minute, a little while ago. The island map was just coincidentally much larger, than the module originally suggests. I had also tied some of the new characters backstories and another group were already Westmarching the island. The first group; had defeated an Owlbear and took 2 young back to Dragons Rest. They are training and having them trained, to sell one and keep the other. First group had also solved the Seagrow Caves, before the others arrived. Players dropped out and others got busy, so it hasn't played much more than that.
Doing an adventure path now, using Barrowmaze (DCC conversion) as the main adventure. Used tiers by accident I guess. I only have the final idea in mind, one character will be "the mother" of Elves in my currently elf-less home brewed world. She will do this by feeding the Tablet of Chaos her blood and giving to the King of Elfland (character's patron). The party just hit 4th level and only now have I given them the first clue of this possible path. Possible because the players are the campaign (throw back to a great Bandit's Keep video).
@@danielrowan4716 We are having a blast. Does need a little spicing things up here and there to diffuse some of the repetitiveness. I throw in some Trilemma undead and use DCC's make the monster(s) unique philosophy at times.
@@jshricksThat’s awesome. I’m an old school AD&D guy. I first heard about it thru Questing Beast and keep meaning to pick it up to get that old school dungeon crawl with weird and deadly creatures, traps and treasure
It's funny that you mention this, because I once tried to run the D&D 4E Tiered adventure path (beginning Keep on the Shadowfell and ending Prince of Undeath) this advice could have made that campaign run to the intended conclusion. If the cult of Orcus constantly comes up, even indirectly with each episode, they'd always be at the back of the players' minds throughout heroic and paragon tier, so the epic tier conclusion just would come about naturally. Very interesting line of thinking, and one that was handled a little better in the Third Edition campaign Sunless Citadel-Bastion of Broken Souls. You wouldn't know who the major bad guys were immediately going through it, but there was a line of breadcrumbs making the campaign lore solvable should the PCs be interested in investigating the adventures thoroughly. Even the dragon lore at the beginning comes up a few times so it feels more natural at the conclusion.
Strahd is a great end villain. I really like hunting down Dracula and having that singular big confrontation. It's usually a giant dragon like Smaug or a Godzilla like monster like the tarrasque
I believe it's also possible to blend the element of an over arching plot with a game that runs like a sandbox. Though, in my case, it is very over arching and in the background.
Great timing for this video! I always run sandbox campaigns but I am starting prep on a story-based campaign and I want it to still feel free, but also there is one clear goal for the end of the adventure that the players and PCs both know about from the start. This has given me some great ideas. (The campaign is a level 15-20 adventure of all elves fighting Ityak-Ortheel, aka the Elf Eater. I saw a video talking about the elder evils of older additions and as soon as I heard about Ityak-Ortheel I knew I wanted to make a high level, plane-jumping campaign based around him.)
I am running two groups, about to start a third, in games similar to that. I start out by letting them know the first few missions will be primers. Things for them to do and kind of expected to, like a linear game. But that is also to give me time to start populating the rest of the region slowly. I will take pre-made modules or my own adventures and just write on the map where these will be located. Adjusting the story as needed for the area of changes that the players might have made. So, by the time they have finished the beginning stages of the first few adventures I have a host of other ones ready to go in different directions. Then, as we go, I may or may not start weaving some of them together into a bigger story making them connect but I don't start out that way. And most of the adventures are one-off deals and connect nowhere else. But by doing it in an open-world style I have a massive area already populated with potential quests months in advance just saying "This will go here, that will go there", etc. I don't have to memorize or prep more than knowing what the adventure is about until we get to that point and I ask the players to let me know at the end of the session where they plan on going next so I can look at my GM map to see what I have placed in that area. The best part is if they go a different direction from where some quests are I can just pick them up, change a few parts to make them fit in a new spot, and still get to use them. They never knew those quests existed because they never went there. So, I just move the potential quests to the new area where they are located to offer it to them. But having a rough idea of what is where well in advance allows me to make all sorts of changes based on new ideas or player actions that it feels far more natural and less out of place. And they have no clue that I have no clue before they started playing.
It took me about a decade to run a campaign from level 1 to level 20. There were times we were consistent and times we had long breaks. The game went from 2e to 3.5e. It was fun with many great moments, but man did it take a long time! I would like to write adventure paths, but every time I go to do it I get overwhelmed with the idea of the formatting of it in a text document than I do actually making the adventure path itself 🤣😰
Yes, King Arthur Pendragon keeps me on a more linear campaign style than other games do. The world chronology is published material! We depart from/ ignore it a lot-but big events in the timeline, like Uther’s demise and Arthur’s siring Mordred are inevitable.
I almost exclusively run pre built adventure paths, but I hack and slash them to fit my characters backstory/ world. My most recent campaign was the Ashardalon 3E stuff adapted to 5E rules. I threw out or changed, or linked the stuff that was unconnected. Ultimately the players had a blast, we made it all the way from 1-20 in about 70 sessions. Was a great time.
Adventure Path Campaigns feel dirty after running, enjoying, and creating Sandboxes for a long while. I will do it because it's what my friends enjoy. This is where I would point to Index Card RPG with "Plan one session at a time" and you know your end goal, you may know the general beats of the game, and then you have some bare minimums prepped. Worlds Without Number also stresses this. Use the tools to build the backdrop to give the illusion that you're fully prepped, but if the game fizzles, then you haven't wasted tons of time, and you hopefully enjoyed the world building process. If anything else, you got a world to solo a bit in before trying again.
I guess you could say that an Adventure Path Campaign can still take place in your Sandbox, but you'd be running a "Partial Sandbox" or "Theme Park" and really expanding upon something like a Dungeon World Front where each Grim Portent is essentially an arc of your APC.
Lost mine of Phandelver is the only adventure path I ran to completion. Strangely, at the end I felt my players were no longer really all that motivated. Like they were going through the motions. So when that path ended I didn't continue it. I did get about halfway through Dragon of Icespire Peak. The actions of the previous party had influenced the town of Phandelin. It was interesting but just not as inspired. It felt like the writers of DoIP bent over backwards to not have any mention of the previous adventure path. Up to and including NPC's being absent in the new adventure.
I wrote an adventure path using this format awhile back. It started as a sandbox, but with 3 or 4 adventure paths to kinda focus my thoughts when players made certain decisions. Worked out fa tastic and wont do it any other way from now on
As someone who has entered the hobby late, it has barely clicked why the OSR is how it is and why it works compared to the stories of 5e why the system works well for these kinds of stories.
I try to run my games in the forms of an adventure path & a living world- if the players choose to leave the adventure, the adventure will continue without them. Still testing this way of playing, but it makes sense to me.
Examples would be good. I think for a video like this you should actually do the thing you're talking about because in doing thoughts and ideas come up that may not show up merely by talking.
Boy you are really gonna trigger the 1:1 time crowd by suggesting you jump ahead. I actually love all your stuff but I saw how apologetic you got when mentioning story. Keep up the great work and don’t worry if a few don’t like your style!
You have a real gift for explaining the complex and difficult task of being a good GM/DM and simplifying it so that it can be well understood. I have been playing RPGs since 1978 and your channel has some of the best advice for GM/DMs that I have ever seen.
Thank You!
10:32 Orcus-strating. You're welcome.
😊
Came here just for this. ❤
Great advice. I'll share one other tip (which I am sure you have mentioned in a previous video as well) - make sure the type of camping is clear to your players, and you get their buy-in. In September I migrated my PCs from 5e to Dolmenwood (Basically BECMI type game system). I went from running adventure path type adventures to a big sandbox and after six months my players told me they don't like sandboxes, they prefer the adventure paths. It didn't even occur to me my players wouldn't like sandbox as it was "just one of the ways we played" back in the day. They much prefer having and adventure path. And, to be honest, when I look back at all the campaigns I have had with them there has always been an adventure path in place of some kind with hex-crawls/side quests/ some open world as a "add on" but not the core game. So that was on me as well.
In terms of adventure paths I have had great success with man of the Paizo ones. They are easy to modify for whatever system (5e or OSR). However, I do find the most memorable ones for my PCs have been ones I heavily modify/customise for them. Some of the ones I have played off the top of my head:
* The Shackled City (the first to coin the term "adventure path" pretty novel back in 2003 or so (or whenever it came out).
* The Jade Regent (Oreintal Adventures, though mainly Japanese).
* The Iron Gods (science-fantasy in the mould of S3).
* And about to start Reign of Winter (Slavic fairy tale).
* Oddyssey of the Dragonlords (Greco-Roman)
I have had little success with the 5e versions, they are all so bland (like Strahd, Abyss etc).
Very true, the table should all be on board if a campaign is going to be successful
This is my favorite type of campaign to run and as such I have a couple points I would like to add.
1. I treat each "tier" the same way I would if I were a showrunner making a season of a TV show that I'm not sure will get renewed. Especially if what you are planning is a real long-form multi-year campaign, you need to be prepared for the scheduling monster to attack, which is not all that different from an actor departing or a network canceling your show. Give yourself an oppurtunity to give a satisfying conclusion, but with the promise of more to come. Always be working towards that "season finale" even if you don't know that you'll ever get to the "series finale." And you can do the same for your player's personal quests as well, so that even if they didn't get to their true end goal, they feel they progressed along the path and can imagine what else the future may hold for their character's journey even if they don't have the opportunity to continue it in game. Like for instance if a player character has a romance sub-plot going with a certain NPC, in season one they could get a kiss from that npc, in season 2 they start outright dating, in season 3 they meet the family, in season 4 they get engaged, and at the series finale they get married. Maybe the player never makes it to that true ending, but no matter where they get off the train, they had a small victory to end on.
2. Player buy-in is the key to this style of game. A reason that a lot of DM's don't use this style is because on paper is can seem like the "railroading" we are all trained to so desperately avoid. And it can turn into that, but only if your players don't want to follow the path you created. The key to avoiding that is simply to be on the same page as your players. Not just letting them know what kind of campaign you're running, but also getting them involved in shaping the narrative and themes. Help them tie their backstories into the tapestry of the adventure arc, give them the promise of exciting set pieces that intrest them personally to look foward to. As long as your players have agency over the story unfolding at your table, you aren't railroading.
3. You can't prepare for every situation. Make sure your players know that this isn't a sandbox, and you need time to prepare adventures. It's okay if they want to take a different path than the exact one you prepared, but feel free to tell your players that you will need to take a moment, or maybe even a whole week to alter what you had planned and taylor the adventure to their desires and actions.
Great advice, thanks!
Currently doing a Return of Orcus in Basic Fantasy. Your iseas align perfectly with the direction i was leaning towards, with the escwption of of the falling star in your example is the fall of an immortal lineage.
Nice! Orcus was a big part of my long running 5e campaign
I've certainly done this. And you're absolutely right about dividing it into tiers/chucks. That's way my campaign prep process has the Four Feuding Factions. You can use the four factions in a four corner opposition approach to make a sandbox. But you can also place the four factions in succession and use one for each teir of play.
I like that! I really enjoyed your video about the 4 factions and how you linked them all together.
@@BanditsKeep thanks
I ran World of Darkness games for years, most of them are intended for some version of storypath
I appreciate this video because a lot of people ignore this version of game mastering
Cool - I haven’t tried any of the World of Darkness games, any favorite?
@BanditsKeep Anything but Vampire?
Werewolf if you like the complicated morals of fighting evil.
Changeling if you want to explore how the banality of life destroys our creativity
Mage if you want to think about the nature of reality and your place in it.
Vampire if you want to explore how the capacity for evil within us all influences both ourselves, but our societies.
All of these have relatively dense systems, but all share core mechanics. So if you learn one, you can play any.
The "definitive" editions are the 20th Anniversary books, but several versions are fun. Reach out if you want to talk more about it!
I am DM'ng an adventure path that has run continuously since 1989. "Search for the Silver Wing" a take on the Rise of Tiamat (before Dragonlance was published) although I use all of the setting items, (draconians, &c.) in the Greyhawk setting set in 717cy ( that way canon can remain) .. where the creater of the Soul Gem -- (C-2) used it to capture the soul of Bahamut. 500yrs or so before my timeline (ok break with canon a bit) allowing for the building of the new dragon cult into a full blown religion as the chromatic armies re-order the Great Kingdom .. from undead Chaotic evil to Lawful authoritarian evil.. ever expanding to bring that order to chaotic realms - specifically the fae... I started it in University.. party died x2, and from 1993 til now, have run 4 additional groups (inclucing my current group of 15yrs) to restore Bahamut to his proper place as a counter balance to Tiamat. I never restart... just like you suggested , insert new chapters into the narrative ... to build the lore ... never boring, A LOT of book keeping, but probably the best - sandbox I can create.... as if the party marches off the main task -- the geo-politics still happen... I hope to have the party actually get to the Ghost Tower to complete it -- in my life time .. they are 60% there at 9th level .. but not necessary.
Great content and thanks
That’s awesome!
This sounds freaking awesome!
I'm running a sort of adventure path right now in B/X Moldavy where a figure known as "The Lod of the Mountain" is setting up for a major land war in Western Karameikos in the D&D Known World.
I followed a lot of this advice without having seen the video, but you offer up a couple of points I hadn't considered. I may course correct on some of the finer points.
Great video, as always.
Awesome, sounds like an awesome campaign
My first campaign was a 2-20 adventure path style. I didn’t know a lot about writing structure but I did know how JRPGs worked, so I basically used that format. Levels 2-4 were about exploring the world and discovering that something was rotten in the state of Denmark, capped by a fight with an evil Druid. Levels 5-10 were about killing lieutenants of this lich. 11-14 were about taking down the lich (during this phase the characters learned who the lich learned his secrets from). Then 15-20 were about taking out the guy who was behind the lich.
I didn’t struggle with the structure so much as high level play and trying to “finish”. It took 2 and a half years. I’m running another adventure path type game with a lot more social and nonviolent solutions, and I’ve capped it at level 12. We’ll be wrapping soon, at almost exactly 1 year. That feels more manageable to me.
Both of these sound awesome!
I've tried several approaches for this. I'll try and keep this succinct, or it'll turn into an essay.
1 of 3(ish). Linking modules and tying them in, together somehow. Seeded through, the surrounding area from their base. Sandbox with dungeons. Make your big bad and tie a faction, in each dungeon to it. Change the dressings, a bit if you have to. Eg. I tied the Sunless Citadel 5th Edition and converted Against the Cult of the Reptile god from AD&D, with plans to go to the Forge of Fury. Combined with either researched elements of 'Danger at Dark Shelf Quarry' or 'Deep Dwarven Delve'. With the idea of forging a weapon; to slay the Wendigo, an Avatar of Zuggtmoy. Tied that all together with the Twigblights even advancing some; to grow larger and develop with different abilities. This is Zuggtmoy's plan to reclaim the area for"rejuvenation" and 'regeneration'. Through destruction and rot and seed it, to the plants and funguses.
2 of 3(probably) Completely freeform. This is flexing, your on the fly muscles. Have them opposed to the Evil Lord, Mad Wizard, resurrection of a dead god etc. Insert whatever Lovecraftian scheme or Robert E Howard Dungeon at the end. Pull them into the schemes of the bad guys, through tiered exploration of the local area. I did this where my PC's defended a village, from a Bandit assault 3-5th lvl. Which led them back to a greedy pair of noble houses in a county over (5-6th level). One of which was dominated, by an Illithid cult. Then the ruined temple dungeon, to dismantle the cult and kill the illithids(7-9th) Level. This was all done, during my 3.5 Ed days.
3. Of 3. Locked theme and frame of narrative. I fell you should really need, to get the players to buy in. To this one. It's not my go to, I haven't run Curse of Strahd(ever). But it's how I'd run an adventure through a campaign setting guide. I still only use the elements present and adjust accordingly, to the players decisions and their overall wishes on story elements. 5th Edition seems way nerfed just as a side note.
Oh and bonus round. 4 of 3. Hombrew expansion of module, or Starter kits. I was running Dragons of Stormwreck Isle; for a hot minute, a little while ago. The island map was just coincidentally much larger, than the module originally suggests. I had also tied some of the new characters backstories and another group were already Westmarching the island. The first group; had defeated an Owlbear and took 2 young back to Dragons Rest. They are training and having them trained, to sell one and keep the other. First group had also solved the Seagrow Caves, before the others arrived. Players dropped out and others got busy, so it hasn't played much more than that.
Thanks! Nice breakdown
Doing an adventure path now, using Barrowmaze (DCC conversion) as the main adventure. Used tiers by accident I guess. I only have the final idea in mind, one character will be "the mother" of Elves in my currently elf-less home brewed world. She will do this by feeding the Tablet of Chaos her blood and giving to the King of Elfland (character's patron). The party just hit 4th level and only now have I given them the first clue of this possible path. Possible because the players are the campaign (throw back to a great Bandit's Keep video).
I’ve heard Barrowmaze is great.
@@danielrowan4716 We are having a blast. Does need a little spicing things up here and there to diffuse some of the repetitiveness. I throw in some Trilemma undead and use DCC's make the monster(s) unique philosophy at times.
@@jshricksThat’s awesome. I’m an old school AD&D guy. I first heard about it thru Questing Beast and keep meaning to pick it up to get that old school dungeon crawl with weird and deadly creatures, traps and treasure
Nice
It's funny that you mention this, because I once tried to run the D&D 4E Tiered adventure path (beginning Keep on the Shadowfell and ending Prince of Undeath) this advice could have made that campaign run to the intended conclusion. If the cult of Orcus constantly comes up, even indirectly with each episode, they'd always be at the back of the players' minds throughout heroic and paragon tier, so the epic tier conclusion just would come about naturally.
Very interesting line of thinking, and one that was handled a little better in the Third Edition campaign Sunless Citadel-Bastion of Broken Souls. You wouldn't know who the major bad guys were immediately going through it, but there was a line of breadcrumbs making the campaign lore solvable should the PCs be interested in investigating the adventures thoroughly. Even the dragon lore at the beginning comes up a few times so it feels more natural at the conclusion.
Cool, I’ve not tried either of those but they both sound interesting
Strahd is a great end villain. I really like hunting down Dracula and having that singular big confrontation. It's usually a giant dragon like Smaug or a Godzilla like monster like the tarrasque
For sure
I believe it's also possible to blend the element of an over arching plot with a game that runs like a sandbox. Though, in my case, it is very over arching and in the background.
This is a far superior way to run a game, dont write too far ahead for your group because they may not make it there 🤔
For sure
Great timing for this video! I always run sandbox campaigns but I am starting prep on a story-based campaign and I want it to still feel free, but also there is one clear goal for the end of the adventure that the players and PCs both know about from the start. This has given me some great ideas.
(The campaign is a level 15-20 adventure of all elves fighting Ityak-Ortheel, aka the Elf Eater. I saw a video talking about the elder evils of older additions and as soon as I heard about Ityak-Ortheel I knew I wanted to make a high level, plane-jumping campaign based around him.)
Sounds awesome
I am running two groups, about to start a third, in games similar to that. I start out by letting them know the first few missions will be primers. Things for them to do and kind of expected to, like a linear game. But that is also to give me time to start populating the rest of the region slowly. I will take pre-made modules or my own adventures and just write on the map where these will be located. Adjusting the story as needed for the area of changes that the players might have made. So, by the time they have finished the beginning stages of the first few adventures I have a host of other ones ready to go in different directions. Then, as we go, I may or may not start weaving some of them together into a bigger story making them connect but I don't start out that way. And most of the adventures are one-off deals and connect nowhere else. But by doing it in an open-world style I have a massive area already populated with potential quests months in advance just saying "This will go here, that will go there", etc. I don't have to memorize or prep more than knowing what the adventure is about until we get to that point and I ask the players to let me know at the end of the session where they plan on going next so I can look at my GM map to see what I have placed in that area. The best part is if they go a different direction from where some quests are I can just pick them up, change a few parts to make them fit in a new spot, and still get to use them. They never knew those quests existed because they never went there. So, I just move the potential quests to the new area where they are located to offer it to them. But having a rough idea of what is where well in advance allows me to make all sorts of changes based on new ideas or player actions that it feels far more natural and less out of place. And they have no clue that I have no clue before they started playing.
Fantastic!
It took me about a decade to run a campaign from level 1 to level 20. There were times we were consistent and times we had long breaks. The game went from 2e to 3.5e. It was fun with many great moments, but man did it take a long time!
I would like to write adventure paths, but every time I go to do it I get overwhelmed with the idea of the formatting of it in a text document than I do actually making the adventure path itself 🤣😰
I hear you on that - a good layout and format you can reference is important and tricky to pull off
Yes, King Arthur Pendragon keeps me on a more linear campaign style than other games do. The world chronology is published material! We depart from/ ignore it a lot-but big events in the timeline, like Uther’s demise and Arthur’s siring Mordred are inevitable.
I do want to get that game to the table
I almost exclusively run pre built adventure paths, but I hack and slash them to fit my characters backstory/ world. My most recent campaign was the Ashardalon 3E stuff adapted to 5E rules. I threw out or changed, or linked the stuff that was unconnected. Ultimately the players had a blast, we made it all the way from 1-20 in about 70 sessions. Was a great time.
Nice!
Adventure Path Campaigns feel dirty after running, enjoying, and creating Sandboxes for a long while. I will do it because it's what my friends enjoy.
This is where I would point to Index Card RPG with "Plan one session at a time" and you know your end goal, you may know the general beats of the game, and then you have some bare minimums prepped. Worlds Without Number also stresses this. Use the tools to build the backdrop to give the illusion that you're fully prepped, but if the game fizzles, then you haven't wasted tons of time, and you hopefully enjoyed the world building process. If anything else, you got a world to solo a bit in before trying again.
I guess you could say that an Adventure Path Campaign can still take place in your Sandbox, but you'd be running a "Partial Sandbox" or "Theme Park" and really expanding upon something like a Dungeon World Front where each Grim Portent is essentially an arc of your APC.
A good session 0 and setting expectations saves much time
True
Lost mine of Phandelver is the only adventure path I ran to completion. Strangely, at the end I felt my players were no longer really all that motivated. Like they were going through the motions. So when that path ended I didn't continue it. I did get about halfway through Dragon of Icespire Peak. The actions of the previous party had influenced the town of Phandelin. It was interesting but just not as inspired. It felt like the writers of DoIP bent over backwards to not have any mention of the previous adventure path. Up to and including NPC's being absent in the new adventure.
Oh, that’s interesting- maybe they didn’t want DMs to have to re-con if their party went very far off the path?
"... there is somebody who is really Orustrating this ..." I see what you are doing there! 🙂
😊
You hit on exactly what I am working on! Thank you!
Awesome
I wrote an adventure path using this format awhile back. It started as a sandbox, but with 3 or 4 adventure paths to kinda focus my thoughts when players made certain decisions. Worked out fa tastic and wont do it any other way from now on
Awesome!
As someone who has entered the hobby late, it has barely clicked why the OSR is how it is and why it works compared to the stories of 5e why the system works well for these kinds of stories.
For sure
I try to run my games in the forms of an adventure path & a living world- if the players choose to leave the adventure, the adventure will continue without them. Still testing this way of playing, but it makes sense to me.
That does indeed make sense
DAMN DANIEL!
😊
Their orkustrations lay undetected for years
Indeed
Sounds like you are treading perilously close to "epic" fantasy
Oh the horror
Heck yeah!
Examples would be good. I think for a video like this you should actually do the thing you're talking about because in doing thoughts and ideas come up that may not show up merely by talking.
Indeed - that feels like to would a series of videos vs a single overview.
Boy you are really gonna trigger the 1:1 time crowd by suggesting you jump ahead.
I actually love all your stuff but I saw how apologetic you got when mentioning story.
Keep up the great work and don’t worry if a few don’t like your style!
I was being tongue in cheek (or trying to be to be 😂) because I know some people really don’t love the word story - or plot!
I have good advice how to create adventure path campaign: DON’T.
Why?
@@xavierp7658 Some people don't like that style of play, so they feel obliged to inform everyone else that they shouldn't play that way either.
No bad/wrong fun my friend. Maybe be more open to other play styles.