They've recovered $1.8billion in over payments?? Clearly they have an incompetent accounting system if they let that happen to begin with. Prevention is the best cure. Sucking money out of people in need because of their own incompetence is horrible.. They should all go to hell for doing that to people.
The robodebts are causing deaths. People pushed to levels of being overwhelmed where people take their own lives. I feel so sorry for the mum who is being pursued over an alleged debt for her deceased son. I feel sorry for the vulnerable ones who are victims to this, especially people living with disability. I feel sorry for all of them. The fault is in the computer system because since its introduction, it goes over all previous years incomes and averages the income over the year, rather the period it’s earnt and that’s creating debts!
I have a friend who's been living in Los Angeles for the past 2 years with her bf, working as a writer, but one day from out of the blue, her mum was sent a letter saying that she has a Centrelink debt. When she called Centrelink to ask how the debt was created and why does she own it if she hasn't received a benefit for over 3 years. They just said they don't know why she owes a debt but that if she doesn't pay the debt, they could stop her from going overseas. However, she made that call whilst in LA, in which case the CSO (no joke) asked, "well could you come back to Australia to set up payments" and they will stop her from leaving again till the debt is paid off. Why should she come back to Aus just to be stopped from leaving?
The department has recovered 1.9 billion in overpayments. This would be from the people who have not taken the matter any further because of Centrelinks stand over tactics.
This is all happening in NZ too. We can't get a face to face appointment, or even get the buggers on the phone. And many elderly people can't use the internet or a computer. And all the complicated systems and phone apps are too much for some people. I'm fairly computer savvy and it's too much for me!
@Mate Josipovic I don't indulge in hate speech. Freedom also comes with responsibility and I have no desire to hurt people who have never done anything to me. But as for those who do try to hurt me, they get theirs in the end. In the most spectacular ways.
@Mate Josipovic I don't fit any of their labels or little boxes.......I'm in a class of my own. Nobody is 100% anything - politically or ideologically. They may not agree with all their party lines. My dad turned his back on the NZ Labour Party, after he and his ancestors supported them for generations. Not any more. He's more of an anarchist now.
The interviewer wasn't strong enough on him, almost giving him too much room, soft questions that he's obviously prepared for. First half of the story was good
This abomination was created under Gillard/Rudd. I have no idea why the Liberals are continuing it. I heard that some clown accidentally deleted the original database and there was no valid backup. NOT OUR PROBLEM. Recover the debt from bloody Andersons or whatever overpaid, buzzword spruiking clowns pass for IT in government these days.
@@flyingrc2041 The Libs are the only ones who can fix it???!! Good grief. Where have you been for the past 6 years? Living under a rock? The Libs have been in power since 2013!! They've had plenty of time to fix it and yet under their terms in office things have only gotten worse!
@@GarthClarkson :FACT CHECK! It was the Turnbull government which initiated the robo-debt program... NOT Gillard nor Rudd! A simple google search could have told you as much. While you're more than entitled to your opinion sir, what you're NOT entitled to do is make up rubbish to suit your own political bias.
One of the worse parts about it, is having to enter a repayment agreement and struggle even more, while they very slowly try to establish whether or not you do actually have a debt to repay.
What do you expect, the ENTIRE SYSTEM is a Curse System (Preferably self-imposed) because most people don't realize that they are really dealing with Sorcerers and Black Magicians otherwise known as the legal system.....
When you try to use mygov apps it doesn't let you provide the information you think they need then you raise an email job and hear back in months. It's so difficult to try and get information to centrelink and if you have a disability that limits your ability to wait on hold for an hour or more it's not easily accessible.
Oh, how lovely. He wants the online experience with centrelink to be 'delightful', what a treasure. Meanwhile, in recent years a disproportionate number of suicide victims 'coincidentally' had a robodebt. Delightful my arse.
This is just sad and infuriating, could you imagine hearing you owe $14,000 and they can't even tell you why, you just owe it. It should never, ever be a phone call it should be a detailed letter saying you owe this from this date and that from that date and if they can't provide you that, then you owe them nothing. It shouldn't be you at fault for their faulty accounting and this isn't about giving people something for nothing, these are vulnerable people who are being forced to sort out bureaucratic nightmares due to faulty systems. It's not their fault it's 100% the government.
I am English, and live in the UK near London. Our System is called Social security unemployment is called Employment support allowance. Disability allowance PIP personal independence payment. Old age pension and pension credit. If a person is over paid for whatever reason, you get a letter, saying Dear sir or madam saying a question has arisen concerning your entitlement to what ever benefit you may be on, an appointment has been made, and you go, and then they tell what is wrong, and you can appeal on a decision, but can be a length of time, if you win, they backdate any money owed. Can I ask you people in Australia, do you have to find out, why you owe the money, and do have the right to an appeal. Love to hear from you people, as this does seem an unfair system.
The powers given to them under social security law to enforce debts without "proving them", is a privlidge only afforded to the government and nobody else. They are by law obligated to ensure that their claimed debts from centrelink debtors are genuine and valid, not merely sloppily average a person's ATO income over the course of a year and try to match these up to centrelink payment periods. There is a reason why normal debts have the burden of proof on the claimant to prove they owe the debt, not the debtor to prove that they do not. Either they remove this power entirely from the dept of human services or start holding the agency accountable (either individiual centrelink officers being fined for misconduct or centrelink awarding compensatory payments to people wrongfully accused of debts). Right now the government is completely unaccountable for their screwups and have zero reason and/or incentive to exercise caution or due diligence. This affects everyone who ever received some payment from centrelink, especially people who HAVE worked and got supplementary income from centrelink - its shocking how shortsighted many australians are thinking it's just something that "dole bludgers" need to deal with. They are exact people who do not since they do not have a ATO discrepancy, since they earned no income.
'In the last 4 or 5 years the department has recovered $1.9 billion in overpayments'. I wonder what % of that wasn't actual debt but scared people paying what they were told? Why are people expected to prove they do not owe? In many cases their not even told what dates the 'debt' is from!
I got hit with a robo-debt saying that I was paid $17K in the 2013-2014 financial year, yet I was claiming Centrelink between Jan 2014 and June 2014. I asked them how much I was paid in the previous financial year and they said ~$34K... So, if I was paid twice as much in the previous financial year in the same job, why would I be paid half of that between July 2013 and June 2014..?
@@joebloggs2077 No, because it's a total of $17K in the 2013-2014 financial year, at the same job. That's half the minimum wage in a full time job and it would mean I would have been paid $8.5K between Jan and July 2014. I resubmitted my termination notice in the end, to prove what they already had, but didn't look into, because the computer can't be wrong, until it is.
I wonder who owns the company that created the RoboDebt software. And who in the government are they related to, friends of or have significantly donated to their campaign to. People are sent on a wild goose chase to contest against a program that's been programed to make you are in the wrong, even if are dead. BLOODY DISGUSTING
The fact that they started a phone call to this poor woman acknowledging his death then proceeded to pursue the debt is disgusting debt isn't transferable the guy clearly wouldn't have an estate to claim it from as he was on DSP. Note the mail they sent being addressed to him not her because she owes them nothing and they know it.
next they can abolish the disgustingly unjustified robodebts and go back to calculating overpayments manually and correctly based on the days worked that people are then paid for instead of averaging out the total of the wages over the period specified on the group certificates...due to people not getting paid their wages on the actual days they work and/or doing a week here and a few weeks later doing another week or day, the robodebt calculations will always be incorrect ... then when you want to contest it or ask for explanations apparently that is noones job ... and they will take $60 out of the already abysmally low fortnightly newstart payment ... no wonder people are homeless and having mental health issues ... where are the politicians and media on this? Edit
To get someone to 'manually calculate' the figures, you have to actually employ someone who can add up and subtract...they still sit in front of the computer and use a program to calculate it because they do not have the training to do it themselves... I use to work and study and found that the workers at Centrelink were not versed in basic mathematics. I was amazed to begin with that so few of them actually knew how to use a calculator.....just saying :-)
@@meheretoday6968 in the late 80s and mid nineties i worked for DSS then centrelink and one of my duties was to manually calculate thevoverpayments showing all the details in case it was queried. i guess staff cuts and lack of care have changed all that
Maybe they should rename the scheme to Tele Debt? Clearly the robot isn't doing a very good job, and now the scheme has to pay for bums on seats to try and piece together what debts this robot thinks someone has had. So now that the scheme has cost at least $400m to run, how much more is it going to cost to get every single debt analysed by a phone operator? I'm not sure how the government thought that reclaiming money from vulnerable people with hardly a dollar to their name is going to be successful. You want them to take out a personal loan to repay it? I'm pretty sure the bulk billing cost of seeing the doctor after their anxiety shoots through the roof isn't going to be worth it. Ultimately this scheme is supposed to reclaim $4 billion of debt that spans over 7 years, I'm pretty sure there are juicer targets to go after that have been avoiding paying their debts to society. The DHS has clearly made past mistakes on money its handed out, but I just don't agree with asking societies most vulnerable to pay it back, it's not like they asked their bank manager to create a Robodebt Future Fund account. The money is spent!
@Jayjay Catz I’m so sorry this has happened to you! It’s BS! The Liberal Party take “donations” from large Corporations, give them huge tax breaks and rob the poor to give to the rich! Disgusting!
Are U kidding that was a wowfull display of interviewing how many questions did she get answered besides "call" u obviously never had to call u dumb fuck.
Improve people's experience with the government? Is that really in his job description? If a citizen takes the time and effort to go to a Centrelink office in person, it would only make sense that they talk to a Centrelink staffer to help with their problem; otherwise, why is the staffer there? I think it is an insult to be referred to an online system while you are in the actual office. Government staffers forget the effort it takes people to just show up there in person.
I’m dying with a terminal neurological disease. I was given a $10k bill from DHS. I was so very careful every time I used there app. I am very good at mathematics. Top 5% in Australia. I know I don’t have a debt. I triple checked every time I reported my earnings.
The Minister has probably never tried to deal with Centrelink! He had no idea how bloody hard it is to deal with Centrelink! Also, unfortunately this was one of the worse interview by Laura Tingle. There were plenty of points when the Minister was misleading and wrong but Laura did not challenged. Very poor interview.
i got a letter saying i owed them $13000 and noone is interested in telling me how they came to this outrageous decision or show me the calculations as it is a robodebt that noone is answerable for. when i worked for them years ago, i had to calculate debts manually which is why i know its rubbish ... many people are getting hit by these unjustified debts with no recourse as their computers average income out from the first day you work for a company until the last day. when you do shutdown work, this means that their computers figure that any payments you get in the weeks or months of unemployment you now have to pay back ...unless you can show documentation of the hours of any days you have worked over the last five years, which for most of us is impossible ...
A letter I recently read .... Layperson’s version of Centrelink Letter Introduction & Summary of Errors Direct Quotes from Introduction “I am a compliance officer with Centrelink. I’m writing because I along with so many of my co-workers have tried to stop the wrong that is being done to thousands of our customers on a daily basis and I can no longer live with what we are doing. I spoke confidentially to my wife and she has urged me to speak out about what is actually happening inside Centrelink, before it is covered up. Both myself and my wife understand this could mean that I lose my position.” “What is known to date is literally the tip of the iceberg compared to the true scope of the deliberate wrongful actions that are being deployed under the department’s Online Compliance Intervention (OCI) review process which is raising debts that are incorrect for far more reasons than anyone outside the organisation knows about.” “Within the organisation it is well known that there are errors in the program and compliance officers are directed to ignore incorrect debts without being permitted to correct them. When we report errors it falls on deaf ears or we are told that the issue is already known and we must not make any attempt to fix the error or our work will be returned as wrong and we will have to cancel the corrections. ” ‘The Five Frauds’ [Our Term] Used to Fabricate Centrelink Debts 1. Doubling Income . A person’s entire income from the same employer is doubled up or certain parts of their income are duplicated, like leave and termination payments. 2. Non-Assessable Income . Items are included as income, which should not be counted, like expense reimbursements and some paid parental leave payments. 3. Fictitious Payments . The system is generating debts based on payments that Centrelink never made . It’s even possible to have a debt claim larger than a person’s total Centrelink payment. 4. False Recovery Fees . Recovery fees are regularly being applied when they shouldn’t and can be much larger than the set fee of 10%. 5. Corrupted Review . Compliance officers are directed not to fix these errors, even when they have the evidence, and their work is rejected when they do. Even on appeal, errors will only be corrected if the person specifically identifies them, which can be nearly impossible. Duplicated Income from same employer / Fuzzy Data Matching The automated system is regularly duplicating a person’s entire income from the same employer. Then it raises debts based on the duplicated income. Thousands of debts have been fabricated this way, with hundreds more each day. In the majority of cases, Centrelink staff are being directed not to correct this error when known to them. If they do correct it, their work is returned as wrong. Example of woeful employer name matching by the system (derived from internal Centrelink memo): Person reports $35,000 in income from “LABOUR POWER RECRUITMENT ATO data shows $35,000 in income from “LABOURPOWER RECRUITMENT SERVICES PTY LTD This is clearly the same company, but the automated system treats them as two different companies and doubles up the income to $70,000. Then it raises a debt based on the person not declaring $35,000 in income. Duplicating portions of income The automated system will regularly duplicate portions of a person’s income, like termination and leave payments. This happens because the automated system lumps them all together, while they are separate on Centrelink’s regular system. Centrelink staff are directed not to correct this problem and their work is returned as incorrect if they do. They are being told the automated system is designed to work this way, which effectively means it’s been designed to falsely duplicate income and fabricate debts. For months, it was impossible for Centrelink customers to identify this error through the online portal, and even now, it’s incredibly difficult to find it even for centrelink staff, let alone customers. Previous verified income The automated system is incorrectly overriding previous work of Centrelink staff to exclude things that aren’t income, like expense reimbursements for uniforms, meals, etc. Fictitious Payments [Automated Debt Explanations (ADEX) Credits] The automated system generates debts on payments that were never made by Centrelink. The payment may not have been made because the person submitted information too late for a backdated payment, but the automated system incorrectly treats those payments as being made to the person and creates a debt. Multical / Quality Checking Even the manual debt calculation tool (Multical) has many flaws and it takes experienced Centrelink staff to use it or, where necessary, redo the calculations themselves. Along with the new automated system, there’s been hundreds of new, temporary staff who don’t know how to manage the complex systems and broken tools. Not Checking Existing Evidence Centrelink officers are not allowed to check the results of the automated system against evidence previously provided by the person or their employer, like pay slips, medical certificates, etc. Many of these reviews go back years, which means people are being asked to find employment records from years ago t hat Centrelink already has. Pensioners Termination payments from a job are not supposed to be counted as income for age pensioners for purposes of determining their Centrelink payments. The automated system is counting these payments, which can falsely raise debts in the thousands of dollars. Centrelink staff are not permitted to fix or check this. Apportionment of income [Editor’s Note: It’s difficult to fully understand and relate this section]. Recovery Fees Centrelink policy is that recovery fees are only applied in cases where the person deliberated acted to get overpaid and had no excuse after being contacted. Under the automated system, recovery fees are being applied whether the person has been successfully contacted or not, including when the debts are being falsely generated by the automated system, as discussed above. So the debts don’t even exist, let alone being the result of a deliberate act. Even when debts are reassessed at a lower amount, the recovery fees are often not adjusted. Example:A person is wrongly assessed with a $6,000 debt, that is adjusted after review to $800. Their 10% recovery fee should be adjusted to $80, but could remain at $600 or some other high amount. Match Data [Editor’s Note: It’s difficult to fully understand and relate this section]. Paid Parental Leave The automated system will wrongly include certain paid parental leave payments as income. Centrelink staff are directed not to fix this. Conclusion There are dozens of examples where, even on appeal, Centrelink staff are being given directions to ensure people don’t get the right outcome. For example, on appeal, people may tick that they ‘accept’ the amount paid to them by their employer. That’s being treated as if the person accepts that everything paid to them is ‘assessable income’, when some of it is not (i.e. expense reimbursements, termination payments, leave payments, etc.). Centrelink staff is then being directed not to correct those errors, because the person has ‘accepted’ them, when all the person thinks they are agreeing to is the total amount they got paid. Direct Quote from Conclusion “We are struggling daily with our consciences and pushing back against our leaders every single day ... I see these reviews every working day and I am horrified at what I am being directed to do. I am risking my job sending this information in the desperate hope that exposing such as corrupt and unjust system might just make a difference.”
dealing with Centerlink or Government departments is NOT delightful - it is a wast of time, it is disrespectful to the people who are trying to use it, treating them like criminal, liars, and giving them the run around
Typical psychopathic RoboPolitician who avoids questions - classic Yes Minister response. Try calling the debt line at 9.40am and getting a "We are experiencing a high level of demand - the wait is 30 minutes..." recording. This MP mentions 'mutual obligation' - something that most politicians don't have....
Youth unemployment is over 30% in some areas...parents are forced to support them because youth allowance is bs. They can’t even afford to go to tafe...tafe fees are astronomical...training costs are outrageous...even getting a driver licence almost impossible financially for some unemployed youth and the government still allows our richest companies to import foreign labour rather than train an Aussie kid. These young people go on to be permanently unemployed...unskilled...30% and we are migrating in more people...a lot of which come with family who are unskilled and add to the problem...457 holders don’t leave and then use family reunion to migrate their relatives and that arrogant prat says get a job...what job and where? There are no jobs for low skilled people anymore...even supermarkets are automating and cutting staff and training has been priced out of the reach of a lot of our young people.
I shall send the Dept Human Services a debt notice for $19537 and if they contest it, demand them to provide proof that they do not owe the money. It's called extortion.
It’s fantastic to hear at the end that they are no longer going to raise interest rates when we hit 5% unemployment (including 1 hour a week jobs). Is that what he said? Everyone in full employment? Cut in migration to ensure locals are employed first? Bit of a change in reserve bank policy. About time.
Robodebt was introduced by the ATO and used to work out your Taxes. Robodebt was also use to work out your Child Support. All this needs to be addressed by Royal Commission.
This is what happens in a society of every man, woman, and child for themself everyone is an island then ad in electronic systems and robotic indifferent lazy bureaucrats and who knows how many people fall through the cracks.
Centrelink's system by design was poorly analysed and never got pasts its teething problems. Whoever headed its business analysis was way out of its depth and never understood how such services work. Technically, the system perceives itself as the 'gate keeper' of all system data from other much more established systems like ATO, Immigration, Banks etc. It ignores the fact the other systems where it gets its data from has much more stringent requirements on ID, finance status etc. So they will never understand the full information they extract. This is why ppl are obliged to follow up bogus alert from Centrelink. They are essentially just generating nonsensical activities while adding stress and sapping whatever dignity a person have left in the process.
In my opinion the moderator was pathetic did she get any of her questions answered NO!!!! she just moved on from one question to the next with no challenge
My advice to anyone never never discuss issues like this over the phone. Tell them to write to you! My question is this possibly a scam? I have never heard of a government department phoning first regarding such matters they always write.. Never give out information over the phone and check with police if the payment is actually to Centerlink you are making. I just paid my overpayment amount to Centrelink! Dont know who got the money?
Im sorry helen are you daft ? If you think you can ignore centrelink on a debt and play games with them they will take money usually more ,than when you had an opportunity to negotiate how much you can pay back
It happens here in the United states too. People need to be notified if there's a debt and let them know how to fix it, appeal it before it gets too big. Bullying. That's what it is.
if you actually go there in person and take a ticket it's only a 2 hour wait for them to finally call your number. be careful not to pick the wrong ticket though, or you'll be sent back to grab another ticket and restart your wait again.
There could be millions of permanent resident Aussie or citizens who have send children to their native countries and claimed full child benefits from Australia govt......the govt can do investigation in this regard
my phone call went something like "you owe us alot of money" and i responded with "Can you please send me the numbers showing this?" and they responded with "We dont have to, you owe us money from 10 years ago" ... so he knows hes full of crap !
Debt is an illusion Bec the currency is backed by thin air.. ....ask for auditing of reserve bank of Australia......we will know who got how much money..... ...
This man whatever he said is not for real u can get any answer To centerlink, no way,,,all they said pay it or u go to Court is criminal act not to pay it,,,
some people have killed them selves over this its not its not right i was working for ford at the time and i was working now i am not and not happy about it i blame the goverment i go in this for all these poor people who has suffer and passed away let my mum come back
Centre link is not good leave people on jobseekers who are disabled puts them through so much stress and not very well explained or inform people it needs to be changed and rob debt needs to be thrown out computers make a lot of mistakes I feel sorry for people who have to deal with all of it I even know someone on a pension for years then one day she didn't exist had to read apply from scratch
Why is the ABC disallowing comments and criticism on such important social issues, always using "no moderator available" as the poorest excuse eve, especially when publishing on social media is not understanding social media.
This is intentionally annoying, I believe it is just there to deter people from centrelink and therefore save money. Cut foreign aid and stop welfare payments to economic migrants. Let big business and religions pay the appropriate taxes and raise newstart for Australians, let them have a chance at being able to afford a bus to a job interview.
Again...are we starting to understand what a jew merchant economy does to the human race? I doubt it in Australia...need to suffer from endless fees, bills, debts, processing fees, administrative fees, appointment fees...
They've recovered $1.8billion in over payments?? Clearly they have an incompetent accounting system if they let that happen to begin with.
Prevention is the best cure.
Sucking money out of people in need because of their own incompetence is horrible.. They should all go to hell for doing that to people.
This is an absolute disgrace. Since when is it legal to pursue family for debts of their dead relatives in Australia?
The robodebts are causing deaths. People pushed to levels of being overwhelmed where people take their own lives.
I feel so sorry for the mum who is being pursued over an alleged debt for her deceased son. I feel sorry for the vulnerable ones who are victims to this, especially people living with disability. I feel sorry for all of them.
The fault is in the computer system because since its introduction, it goes over all previous years incomes and averages the income over the year, rather the period it’s earnt and that’s creating debts!
I have a friend who's been living in Los Angeles for the past 2 years with her bf, working as a writer, but one day from out of the blue, her mum was sent a letter saying that she has a Centrelink debt.
When she called Centrelink to ask how the debt was created and why does she own it if she hasn't received a benefit for over 3 years. They just said they don't know why she owes a debt but that if she doesn't pay the debt, they could stop her from going overseas. However, she made that call whilst in LA, in which case the CSO (no joke) asked, "well could you come back to Australia to set up payments" and they will stop her from leaving again till the debt is paid off.
Why should she come back to Aus just to be stopped from leaving?
The department has recovered 1.9 billion in overpayments. This would be from the people who have not taken the matter any further because of Centrelinks stand over tactics.
1.9 billion stolen from people who did nothing wrong
And he was proud to say that
The LNP see someone down on their luck and kick them, telling everyone "it was for their own good" but secretly think "they deserved that"
Has the minister tried to contact the Department? on hold for hours and then getting disconnected?
This is all happening in NZ too. We can't get a face to face appointment, or even get the buggers on the phone. And many elderly people can't use the internet or a computer. And all the complicated systems and phone apps are too much for some people. I'm fairly computer savvy and it's too much for me!
@Mate Josipovic Because I'm allowed to. We still have free speech, in NZ at least. And I don't take shit lying down, I fight back and usually win.
@Mate Josipovic I don't ask permission.....I do and say as I like. Nobody in officialdom has ever tried to stop me and it wouldn't stop me anyway.
@Mate Josipovic I don't indulge in hate speech. Freedom also comes with responsibility and I have no desire to hurt people who have never done anything to me. But as for those who do try to hurt me, they get theirs in the end. In the most spectacular ways.
@Mate Josipovic I don't fit any of their labels or little boxes.......I'm in a class of my own. Nobody is 100% anything - politically or ideologically. They may not agree with all their party lines. My dad turned his back on the NZ Labour Party, after he and his ancestors supported them for generations. Not any more. He's more of an anarchist now.
The interviewer wasn't strong enough on him, almost giving him too much room, soft questions that he's obviously prepared for. First half of the story was good
automated liberal party response - no care factor at all -
This abomination was created under Gillard/Rudd. I have no idea why the Liberals are continuing it. I heard that some clown accidentally deleted the original database and there was no valid backup. NOT OUR PROBLEM. Recover the debt from bloody Andersons or whatever overpaid, buzzword spruiking clowns pass for IT in government these days.
@@flyingrc2041 The Libs are the only ones who can fix it???!! Good grief. Where have you been for the past 6 years? Living under a rock? The Libs have been in power since 2013!! They've had plenty of time to fix it and yet under their terms in office things have only gotten worse!
@@GarthClarkson :FACT CHECK! It was the Turnbull government which initiated the robo-debt program... NOT Gillard nor Rudd! A simple google search could have told you as much.
While you're more than entitled to your opinion sir, what you're NOT entitled to do is make up rubbish to suit your own political bias.
@@milalewis983 these people have an equal vote to you which is what is scary they have control over aspects of your life.
@@flyingrc2041 This completely partisan hack comment was Authorised by the Australian Government Canberra.
Department of human service? More like department of human sacrifice
Did he answer any questions about the question ? 🤔 Stone walling and towing the line as usual 😒 . What Muppets !
One of the worse parts about it, is having to enter a repayment agreement and struggle even more, while they very slowly try to establish whether or not you do actually have a debt to repay.
What do you expect, the ENTIRE SYSTEM is a Curse System (Preferably self-imposed) because most people don't realize that they are really dealing with Sorcerers and Black Magicians otherwise known as the legal system.....
I cannot believe the government is letting this happen.
I can......
When you try to use mygov apps it doesn't let you provide the information you think they need then you raise an email job and hear back in months. It's so difficult to try and get information to centrelink and if you have a disability that limits your ability to wait on hold for an hour or more it's not easily accessible.
They deliberately make it as complicated as possible.
Oh, how lovely. He wants the online experience with centrelink to be 'delightful', what a treasure. Meanwhile, in recent years a disproportionate number of suicide victims 'coincidentally' had a robodebt.
Delightful my arse.
Was that the minister, or robo-minister?
😂🎶
LOL probably
He did sound like a talking web page whist talking didn't he.
This is just sad and infuriating, could you imagine hearing you owe $14,000 and they can't even tell you why, you just owe it. It should never, ever be a phone call it should be a detailed letter saying you owe this from this date and that from that date and if they can't provide you that, then you owe them nothing. It shouldn't be you at fault for their faulty accounting and this isn't about giving people something for nothing, these are vulnerable people who are being forced to sort out bureaucratic nightmares due to faulty systems. It's not their fault it's 100% the government.
Robo minister, talk easier than done...
I am English, and live in the UK near London. Our System is called Social security unemployment is called Employment support allowance. Disability allowance PIP personal independence payment. Old age pension and pension credit. If a person is over paid for whatever reason, you get a letter, saying Dear sir or madam saying a question has arisen concerning your entitlement to what ever benefit you may be on, an appointment has been made, and you go, and then they tell what is wrong, and you can appeal on a decision, but can be a length of time, if you win, they backdate any money owed. Can I ask you people in Australia, do you have to find out, why you owe the money, and do have the right to an appeal. Love to hear from you people, as this does seem an unfair system.
“The best form of welfare is a job” ... this guy is dodging questions super skeevie like.
The powers given to them under social security law to enforce debts without "proving them", is a privlidge only afforded to the government and nobody else. They are by law obligated to ensure that their claimed debts from centrelink debtors are genuine and valid, not merely sloppily average a person's ATO income over the course of a year and try to match these up to centrelink payment periods. There is a reason why normal debts have the burden of proof on the claimant to prove they owe the debt, not the debtor to prove that they do not. Either they remove this power entirely from the dept of human services or start holding the agency accountable (either individiual centrelink officers being fined for misconduct or centrelink awarding compensatory payments to people wrongfully accused of debts). Right now the government is completely unaccountable for their screwups and have zero reason and/or incentive to exercise caution or due diligence. This affects everyone who ever received some payment from centrelink, especially people who HAVE worked and got supplementary income from centrelink - its shocking how shortsighted many australians are thinking it's just something that "dole bludgers" need to deal with. They are exact people who do not since they do not have a ATO discrepancy, since they earned no income.
Even people who have never received a social security payment have been given fraudulent debt notices. That is what this extortionate government does
'In the last 4 or 5 years the department has recovered $1.9 billion in overpayments'. I wonder what % of that wasn't actual debt but scared people paying what they were told? Why are people expected to prove they do not owe? In many cases their not even told what dates the 'debt' is from!
Should've voted for Labour tbh.
I got hit with a robo-debt saying that I was paid $17K in the 2013-2014 financial year, yet I was claiming Centrelink between Jan 2014 and June 2014. I asked them how much I was paid in the previous financial year and they said ~$34K... So, if I was paid twice as much in the previous financial year in the same job, why would I be paid half of that between July 2013 and June 2014..?
Jason Takes Ωmegle Could you have worked Jan 2014 - Jun 2014, earning 17k whilst still keeping your Centrelink payment?
@@joebloggs2077 No, because it's a total of $17K in the 2013-2014 financial year, at the same job. That's half the minimum wage in a full time job and it would mean I would have been paid $8.5K between Jan and July 2014. I resubmitted my termination notice in the end, to prove what they already had, but didn't look into, because the computer can't be wrong, until it is.
I wonder who owns the company that created the RoboDebt software. And who in the government are they related to, friends of or have significantly donated to their campaign to. People are sent on a wild goose chase to contest against a program that's been programed to make you are in the wrong, even if are dead. BLOODY DISGUSTING
at 10:00, he is answering a lot of questions which were not asked. Very political responses.
The fact that they started a phone call to this poor woman acknowledging his death then proceeded to pursue the debt is disgusting debt isn't transferable the guy clearly wouldn't have an estate to claim it from as he was on DSP. Note the mail they sent being addressed to him not her because she owes them nothing and they know it.
next they can abolish the disgustingly unjustified robodebts and go back to calculating overpayments manually and correctly based on the days worked that people are then paid for instead of averaging out the total of the wages over the period specified on the group certificates...due to people not getting paid their wages on the actual days they work and/or doing a week here and a few weeks later doing another week or day, the robodebt calculations will always be incorrect ... then when you want to contest it or ask for explanations apparently that is noones job ... and they will take $60 out of the already abysmally low fortnightly newstart payment ... no wonder people are homeless and having mental health issues ... where are the politicians and media on this?
Edit
To get someone to 'manually calculate' the figures, you have to actually employ someone who can add up and subtract...they still sit in front of the computer and use a program to calculate it because they do not have the training to do it themselves... I use to work and study and found that the workers at Centrelink were not versed in basic mathematics. I was amazed to begin with that so few of them actually knew how to use a calculator.....just saying :-)
@@meheretoday6968 in the late 80s and mid nineties i worked for DSS then centrelink and one of my duties was to manually calculate thevoverpayments showing all the details in case it was queried. i guess staff cuts and lack of care have changed all that
Maybe they should rename the scheme to Tele Debt? Clearly the robot isn't doing a very good job, and now the scheme has to pay for bums on seats to try and piece together what debts this robot thinks someone has had. So now that the scheme has cost at least $400m to run, how much more is it going to cost to get every single debt analysed by a phone operator? I'm not sure how the government thought that reclaiming money from vulnerable people with hardly a dollar to their name is going to be successful. You want them to take out a personal loan to repay it? I'm pretty sure the bulk billing cost of seeing the doctor after their anxiety shoots through the roof isn't going to be worth it. Ultimately this scheme is supposed to reclaim $4 billion of debt that spans over 7 years, I'm pretty sure there are juicer targets to go after that have been avoiding paying their debts to society. The DHS has clearly made past mistakes on money its handed out, but I just don't agree with asking societies most vulnerable to pay it back, it's not like they asked their bank manager to create a Robodebt Future Fund account. The money is spent!
...of maybe... robo... stand for... robbery...
What an awesome journalist the interviewer is. She didn’t shy away from harsh questions.
@Jayjay Catz I’m so sorry this has happened to you! It’s BS! The Liberal Party take “donations” from large Corporations, give them huge tax breaks and rob the poor to give to the rich! Disgusting!
Are U kidding that was a wowfull display of interviewing how many questions did she get answered besides "call" u obviously never had to call u dumb fuck.
Improve people's experience with the government? Is that really in his job description? If a citizen takes the time and effort to go to a Centrelink office in person, it would only make sense that they talk to a Centrelink staffer to help with their problem; otherwise, why is the staffer there? I think it is an insult to be referred to an online system while you are in the actual office. Government staffers forget the effort it takes people to just show up there in person.
I’m dying with a terminal neurological disease. I was given a $10k bill from DHS. I was so very careful every time I used there app. I am very good at mathematics. Top 5% in Australia. I know I don’t have a debt. I triple checked every time I reported my earnings.
I received a 10k debt , took months to get the real figure of $940. And I watched a story seconds ago about a debt being pursued that’s 9 years old
The Minister has probably never tried to deal with Centrelink! He had no idea how bloody hard it is to deal with Centrelink! Also, unfortunately this was one of the worse interview by Laura Tingle. There were plenty of points when the Minister was misleading and wrong but Laura did not challenged. Very poor interview.
i got a letter saying i owed them $13000 and noone is interested in telling me how they came to this outrageous decision or show me the calculations as it is a robodebt that noone is answerable for. when i worked for them years ago, i had to calculate debts manually which is why i know its rubbish ... many people are getting hit by these unjustified debts with no recourse as their computers average income out from the first day you work for a company until the last day. when you do shutdown work, this means that their computers figure that any payments you get in the weeks or months of unemployment you now have to pay back ...unless you can show documentation of the hours of any days you have worked over the last five years, which for most of us is impossible ...
"Department of Human Services"???? What a cold term! Sounds like a department that manages cleaners.
A letter I recently read ....
Layperson’s version of Centrelink Letter
Introduction & Summary of Errors
Direct Quotes from Introduction
“I am a compliance officer with Centrelink. I’m writing because I along with so many of my
co-workers have tried to stop the wrong that is being done to thousands of our customers on
a daily basis and I can no longer live with what we are doing. I spoke confidentially to my
wife and she has urged me to speak out about what is actually happening inside Centrelink,
before it is covered up. Both myself and my wife understand this could mean that I lose my
position.”
“What is known to date is literally the tip of the iceberg compared to the true scope of the
deliberate wrongful actions that are being deployed under the department’s Online
Compliance Intervention (OCI) review process which is raising debts that are incorrect for far
more reasons than anyone outside the organisation knows about.”
“Within the organisation it is well known that there are errors in the program and compliance
officers are directed to ignore incorrect debts without being permitted to correct them. When
we report errors it falls on deaf ears or we are told that the issue is already known and
we must not make any attempt to fix the error or our work will be returned as wrong
and we will have to cancel
the corrections. ”
‘The Five Frauds’ [Our Term] Used to Fabricate Centrelink Debts
1. Doubling Income . A person’s entire income from the same employer is doubled up
or certain parts of their income are duplicated, like leave and termination payments.
2. Non-Assessable Income . Items are included as income, which should not be
counted, like expense reimbursements and some paid parental leave payments.
3. Fictitious Payments . The system is generating debts based on payments that
Centrelink never made . It’s even possible to have a debt claim larger than a person’s
total Centrelink payment.
4. False Recovery Fees . Recovery fees are regularly being applied when they
shouldn’t and can be much larger than the set fee of 10%.
5. Corrupted Review . Compliance officers are directed not to fix these errors, even
when they have the evidence, and their work is rejected when they do. Even on
appeal, errors will only be corrected if the person specifically identifies them, which
can be nearly impossible.
Duplicated Income from same employer / Fuzzy Data Matching
The automated system is regularly duplicating a person’s entire income from the same
employer. Then it raises debts based on the duplicated income. Thousands of debts have
been fabricated this way, with hundreds more each day. In the majority of cases, Centrelink staff are being directed not to correct this error when known to them. If they do correct it, their work is returned as wrong.
Example of woeful employer name matching by the system (derived from internal Centrelink
memo):
Person reports $35,000 in income from “LABOUR POWER RECRUITMENT
ATO data shows $35,000 in income from “LABOURPOWER RECRUITMENT
SERVICES PTY LTD
This is clearly the same company, but the automated system treats them as two different
companies and doubles up the income to $70,000. Then it raises a debt based on the
person not declaring $35,000 in income.
Duplicating portions of income
The automated system will regularly duplicate portions of a person’s income, like termination
and leave payments.
This happens because the automated system lumps them all together, while they are
separate on Centrelink’s regular system.
Centrelink staff are directed not to correct this problem and their work is returned as
incorrect if they do. They are being told the automated system is designed to work this way,
which effectively means it’s been designed to falsely duplicate income and fabricate debts.
For months, it was impossible for Centrelink customers to identify this error through the
online portal, and even now, it’s incredibly difficult to find it even for centrelink staff, let alone
customers.
Previous verified income
The automated system is incorrectly overriding previous work of Centrelink staff to exclude
things that aren’t income, like expense reimbursements for uniforms, meals, etc.
Fictitious Payments [Automated Debt Explanations (ADEX) Credits]
The automated system generates debts on payments that were never made by Centrelink.
The payment may not have been made because the person submitted information too late
for a backdated payment, but the automated system incorrectly treats those payments as
being made to the person and creates a debt.
Multical / Quality Checking
Even the manual debt calculation tool (Multical) has many flaws and it takes experienced
Centrelink staff to use it or, where necessary, redo the calculations themselves. Along with
the new automated system, there’s been hundreds of new, temporary staff who don’t know
how to manage the complex systems and broken tools.
Not Checking Existing Evidence
Centrelink officers are not allowed to check the results of the automated system against
evidence previously provided by the person or their employer, like pay slips, medical
certificates, etc.
Many of these reviews go back years, which means people are being asked to find
employment records from years ago t hat Centrelink already has.
Pensioners
Termination payments from a job are not supposed to be counted as income for age
pensioners for purposes of determining their Centrelink payments. The automated system is
counting these payments, which can falsely raise debts in the thousands of dollars.
Centrelink staff are not permitted to fix or check this.
Apportionment of income
[Editor’s Note: It’s difficult to fully understand and relate this section].
Recovery Fees
Centrelink policy is that recovery fees are only applied in cases where the person
deliberated acted to get overpaid and had no excuse after being contacted.
Under the automated system, recovery fees are being applied whether the person has been
successfully contacted or not, including when the debts are being falsely generated by the
automated system, as discussed above. So the debts don’t even exist, let alone being the
result of a deliberate act.
Even when debts are reassessed at a lower amount, the recovery fees are often not
adjusted. Example:A person is wrongly assessed with a $6,000 debt, that is adjusted after review to $800. Their 10% recovery fee should be adjusted to $80, but could remain at $600 or some other high amount.
Match Data
[Editor’s Note: It’s difficult to fully understand and relate this section].
Paid Parental Leave
The automated system will wrongly include certain paid parental leave payments as income.
Centrelink staff are directed not to fix this.
Conclusion
There are dozens of examples where, even on appeal, Centrelink staff are being given
directions to ensure people don’t get the right outcome.
For example, on appeal, people may tick that they ‘accept’ the amount paid to them by their
employer. That’s being treated as if the person accepts that everything paid to them is
‘assessable income’, when some of it is not (i.e. expense reimbursements, termination
payments, leave payments, etc.). Centrelink staff is then being directed not to correct those
errors, because the person has ‘accepted’ them, when all the person thinks they are
agreeing to is the total amount they got paid.
Direct Quote from Conclusion
“We are struggling daily with our consciences and pushing back against our leaders every
single day ... I see these reviews every working day and I am horrified at what I am being
directed to do. I am risking my job sending this information in the desperate hope that
exposing such as corrupt and unjust system might just make a difference.”
dealing with Centerlink or Government departments is NOT delightful - it is a wast of time, it is disrespectful to the people who are trying to use it, treating them like criminal, liars, and giving them the run around
It disgusts me the thought my taxes pay his wages !!
Typical psychopathic RoboPolitician who avoids questions - classic Yes Minister response. Try calling the debt line at 9.40am and getting a "We are experiencing a high level of demand - the wait is 30 minutes..." recording. This MP mentions 'mutual obligation' - something that most politicians don't have....
Youth unemployment is over 30% in some areas...parents are forced to support them because youth allowance is bs. They can’t even afford to go to tafe...tafe fees are astronomical...training costs are outrageous...even getting a driver licence almost impossible financially for some unemployed youth and the government still allows our richest companies to import foreign labour rather than train an Aussie kid. These young people go on to be permanently unemployed...unskilled...30% and we are migrating in more people...a lot of which come with family who are unskilled and add to the problem...457 holders don’t leave and then use family reunion to migrate their relatives and that arrogant prat says get a job...what job and where? There are no jobs for low skilled people anymore...even supermarkets are automating and cutting staff and training has been priced out of the reach of a lot of our young people.
In future most jobs will be automated due to AI and advanced technologies. Most will end up in doles...
I shall send the Dept Human Services a debt notice for $19537 and if they contest it, demand them to provide proof that they do not owe the money.
It's called extortion.
The ATO are no better.
It’s fantastic to hear at the end that they are no longer going to raise interest rates when we hit 5% unemployment (including 1 hour a week jobs). Is that what he said? Everyone in full employment? Cut in migration to ensure locals are employed first? Bit of a change in reserve bank policy. About time.
Robodebt was introduced by the ATO and used to work out your Taxes. Robodebt was also use to work out your Child Support. All this needs to be addressed by Royal Commission.
This is what happens in a society of every man, woman, and child for themself everyone is an island then ad in electronic systems and robotic indifferent lazy bureaucrats and who knows how many people fall through the cracks.
Centrelink's system by design was poorly analysed and never got pasts its teething problems. Whoever headed its business analysis was way out of its depth and never understood how such services work. Technically, the system perceives itself as the 'gate keeper' of all system data from other much more established systems like ATO, Immigration, Banks etc. It ignores the fact the other systems where it gets its data from has much more stringent requirements on ID, finance status etc. So they will never understand the full information they extract.
This is why ppl are obliged to follow up bogus alert from Centrelink. They are essentially just generating nonsensical activities while adding stress and sapping whatever dignity a person have left in the process.
In my opinion the moderator was pathetic did she get any of her questions answered NO!!!!
she just moved on from one question to the next with no challenge
the MY gov app is horrible and can not be used
I wouldn't trust it as it requires access and permissions to basic everything on your phone..... it's spyware.
My advice to anyone never never discuss issues like this over the phone. Tell them to write to you! My question is this possibly a scam? I have never heard of a government department phoning first regarding such matters they always write.. Never give out information over the phone and check with police if the payment is actually to Centerlink you are making. I just paid my overpayment amount to Centrelink! Dont know who got the money?
Im sorry helen are you daft ? If you think you can ignore centrelink on a debt and play games with them they will take money usually more ,than when you had an opportunity to negotiate how much you can pay back
It happens here in the United states too. People need to be notified if there's a debt and let them know how to fix it, appeal it before it gets too big. Bullying. That's what it is.
There are millions of women who live on their children's benefits.......
Maybe BHP and other huge companies can go through their f88king books.
I had to agree. That I had a debt to receive any payments. Also, do not have payslips from 6 years ago to fight what they're talking about
"contact the department" - if you can get through after waiting on the phone for 3 hours.
if you actually go there in person and take a ticket it's only a 2 hour wait for them to finally call your number. be careful not to pick the wrong ticket though, or you'll be sent back to grab another ticket and restart your wait again.
There could be millions of permanent resident Aussie or citizens who have send children to their native countries and claimed full child benefits from Australia govt......the govt can do investigation in this regard
It is called “line item or line itemization”!
Dealing with the gov avoid at all costs.don't take there handouts.don't return there calls stay out of the system.
my phone call went something like "you owe us alot of money" and i responded with "Can you please send me the numbers showing this?" and they responded with "We dont have to, you owe us money from 10 years ago" ... so he knows hes full of crap !
That was an extremely dry and boring interview that gave no real answers just platitudes
I just moved out, went to live at the beach, no fixed address, well played Centrelink
Debt is an illusion Bec the currency is backed by thin air.. ....ask for auditing of reserve bank of Australia......we will know who got how much money..... ...
The sooner EVERYONE wakes up to how the money we use is literally fake money, the sooner we can kick these weasels into the gutter....
If the debt is not in your name don’t pay it.
So obviously computer is not smarter than human???!!If the computer says it they believe it
solution to many problems: dont have a tax file number !!!!! no computer can chase you...
This man whatever he said is not for real u can get any answer
To centerlink, no way,,,all they said pay it or u go to Court is criminal act not to pay it,,,
It isn't an overpayment... Obviously working while being on "welfare" isn't worth it........
some people have killed them selves over this its not its not right i was working for ford at the time and i was working now i am not and not happy about it i blame the goverment i go in this for all these poor people who has suffer and passed away let my mum come back
Don't send em a single red cent!😠
I now receive less than $500 a fortnight. My rent is 320 a fortnight. you Can only push a man so far.
Centre link is not good leave people on jobseekers who are disabled puts them through so much stress and not very well explained or inform people it needs to be changed and rob debt needs to be thrown out computers make a lot of mistakes I feel sorry for people who have to deal with all of it I even know someone on a pension for years then one day she didn't exist had to read apply from scratch
Department of inhuman services.
Why is the ABC disallowing comments and criticism on such important social issues, always using "no moderator available" as the poorest excuse eve, especially when publishing on social media is not understanding social media.
This is intentionally annoying, I believe it is just there to deter people from centrelink and therefore save money. Cut foreign aid and stop welfare payments to economic migrants. Let big business and religions pay the appropriate taxes and raise newstart for Australians, let them have a chance at being able to afford a bus to a job interview.
Treason.....
Again...are we starting to understand what a jew merchant economy does to the human race? I doubt it in Australia...need to suffer from endless fees, bills, debts, processing fees, administrative fees, appointment fees...
Just a whole load of non answers and fob offs.
Contact the department they never helped lol
Carp