This is a contemporary Ambassador in the late 2360's as it would likely be after the decades of refits and upgrades that older Starfleet ships nearly always get. The Ambassador may be older but with modern shields and weapons it would be a match for a Vor'Cha which is only an attack cruiser vs a heavy cruiser like the Ambassador. I've always seen the Vor'Cha as somewhat weaker than a heavy cruiser but quicker to build and more numerous. They seemed "decent" in the shows but were never depicted as overly powerful
This was an Ambassador Class Refit from the 2350's. The Nacelles have different Bussard Collectors and you see this version in DS9 Emissary trying to save USS Saratoga. True if this was a 2330's Ambassador class the Vor'cha would have won more convincingly as the OG version could only fire 4 torpedo's from each launcher before reloading. The Vor'cha also was not a match for a Galaxy or a Nebula class starship of the 2360's but was designed for greater mass production which interestingly enough the Romulans followed in the 2370's with the Mogai Class Warbird (Valdore/Norexan) for much the same reasons. Instead of Huge Numbers of Weak ships to overwhelm a stronger opponent or a small number of insanely powerful ships...its more of a decently powerful but able to be built in large numbers philosophy...Sherman and T34 logic from WW2
@@adamlee2111 I agree with this. In TNG it was very firmly established canonically that the Enterprise was the most powerful ship in the Federation fleet, and we see later that there are very few Galaxy class ships in service. The Vor’Cha is far more numerous, so if they were as strong as a Galaxy then the Klingons would completely outmatch the Federation. For a more direct comparison, we see a Vor’Cha class fire on a fully shielded USS Defiant, and then a few episodes later we see the Defiant take fire from the Lakota. It’s very clear if you watch both scenes back to back that the Lakota massively outguns a Vor’Cha. Yes it was upgraded, but surely its phasers weren’t significantly more powerful than much larger and more modern Starfleet ships. The Vor’Cha makes logical sense to sit around modern Ambassador level in terms of overall capability.
@CC-mp1wk not as strong but more numerous. The Vor'Cha proved to be a solid Cruiser class of the Dominion War much like the D7 class of a century before. The Klingons fleet build was more streamlined than Starfleet...the had a small number of ship classes but large numbers of them apart from the Negh'Var - Starfleet had way too many starship classes so would have been a logistical nightmare for the Corps of Engineers. Starship classes that were frontline combat vessels during wartime specifically 😉 The anti borg ships hadn't supplanted the older 23rd Century ships by the wars outbreak
I always assumed the Vor'Cha was a bit older. Like a late 2340s early 2350s design... Enough were in use by 2372 that the loss of one wasn't crippling.
Damn the AI put up a good fight there! Either that, or Vor'cha needs some buffing. Probably a bit of both. AI seems to do a decent job with certain types of ships. Good torpedo usage (not perfect, but better then some players I've seen), good shield facing rotation. It actually tried to spread out the damage. That final part it seemed to fall off a bit (it could've easily gotten another full aft spread at you, it didn't for some reason). Still. Surprisingly competent AI perfomance here. And Vor'cha needs a tiny bit of love. Maybe up the damage of those front cannons a little (to emphasise it's ambush-predator design philosophy).
@@necroticavalon5176 yeah I was surprised by the ai’s competence here 😂 I could buff the pulse disruptors and nerf the secondary weapons but I don’t want the vor’cha to be more powerful than an Ambassador class. I think it fits with Klingon philosophy: their main cruisers are weaker than Starfleets but are more numerous. By matching an Ambassador it’s in the same category as the ‘big boys’ and outmatches anything lighter than a heavy cruiser, but there’s still some distance between it and a Galaxy or a D’Deridex. This seems about right to me, I’ve never seen any indication that it’s in Galaxy territory
@@adamlee2111 Don't forget the game's main storyline though. Vor'Cha will be expected to do some pretty heavy lifting in the latter missions, assuming you select the Klingon captain as your backup. Unless you're planning to put him in a Negh'Var or something. As it is now, I don't fancy it's chances against a Hybrid or two. XD Especially piloted by an AI. See, that's exactly why I think you should put in more Beta canon Klingon ships, to fill in the blanks. That way you can buff the Vor'Cha a bit, while still having ships below it to pick up the slack. As it is now, you've got a HUGE gap, that you're trying to fill, by nerfing the Vor'Cha into some kind of quasi-medium cruiser, while also giving the BoP ridiculous shielding to get it up to Miranda's level (which it's NOT). As it is now, the Vor'Cha is basically a bit better K'Tinga. And that's just not right. Also I really disagree with it being an equal to the Ambassador (which I don't think it even is, right now, I'd put it on par with an Excelsior, given this battle). Ambassador is a 2340's design, vs. a 2360's design in a Vor'Cha. Especially given the technology they obtained from the Federation in various exchanges, the Klingons would've made sure their newest ship would be at least a reasonable match for the Fed heavy hitters. Personally, I'd put it on par with a Nebula. I can agree that it's no match for a Galaxy, but I'd put it in the Nebula's weight class. I see the Vor'Cha relation to the Galaxy the same as D7's relation to a Connie. A little weaker, but not much. Also don't forget that the Galaxy class was never designed as a pure warship. Klingons basically only design pure warships.
@@adamlee2111 They are like an uncomfortable hybrid of Romulan and Cardassian. Tough and durable like the Cardies, but with a dash of good tech and weapons. But, their doctrine is not suited well for this game. Cloaking is just an invitation to get hammered.
The ambassador class is op for its time, 70% as strong as a galaxy class, and though the vor’cha has less torpedo firepower than even the ambassador, it’s cannons are like almost 4 galaxy class ships, it would destroy a galaxy, it would do even better against an ambassador class
Yes, but 85% in one direction. That puts a lot strain on a single shield size. Cloaking mitigates this in Klingon doctrine, but in this game it is not as useful.
The question is, is that a 2240s or 2260s ambassador. It was illuded to and even mentioned in dialogue that the ambassador was a tough ship. And through upgrades, it would have been pretty close to a Galaxy. The Vor'cha struggled against 2 BOP. A Galaxy would mop the floor with it. Its big brother the nek'var would mop the floor with an ambassador or even a Galaxy
@@aaronatwood9298 just checked, the vor’cha’s cannons are 20% stronger than the galaxy class, it’s torpedoes are 50% as powerful~ish, it’s armored hull is 2x the galaxy class. Personally with its cloak in canon, it should wipe a galaxy class in all honesty. Also you mention a vor’cha doing bad against 2 bird of prey, which I don’t remember to be perfectly honest, do you know what class of bird of prey they were?
@@aaronatwood9298 also wanted to mention: if the vor’cha really did bad against 2 bird of prey, that’s not even a bad showing, considering it’s stated in deep space 9 that the 4 main type 12 phaser cannons of the defiant were equal to the two main disruptor cannons on a BoP (assuming they meant the Rotarran). So struggling against essentially 4 defiants, not bad in the slightest
@@Mikerille Tng, can't remember name of episode, worf was trying to restore his name and was on Gowrons ship... Kern rescues them. As for a defiant comparison to a BOP, I don't recall that anywhere in DS9. But the Rotarin was heavily upgraded and the Defiant phasers were as powerful as a Galaxy class.
The War Galaxy is part of the DJ Galaxy pack and the War Nebula is just the CGI Nebula model used in late DS9. I don't have a War Ambassador, this is just how I imagined the Ambassador class to be in the 2370's after decades of refits and upgrades
It was the Remastered mod but its heavily modified. Basically its my custom version of Bridge Commander. The multiple phaser arrays are achieved using the multi-targeting scripts
Now that was an intense battle. Could have gone either way.
Isn't the Ambassador like 40 years older than the Vorcha? This seemed way harder than it should have been. 🤔
This is a contemporary Ambassador in the late 2360's as it would likely be after the decades of refits and upgrades that older Starfleet ships nearly always get. The Ambassador may be older but with modern shields and weapons it would be a match for a Vor'Cha which is only an attack cruiser vs a heavy cruiser like the Ambassador. I've always seen the Vor'Cha as somewhat weaker than a heavy cruiser but quicker to build and more numerous. They seemed "decent" in the shows but were never depicted as overly powerful
This was an Ambassador Class Refit from the 2350's. The Nacelles have different Bussard Collectors and you see this version in DS9 Emissary trying to save USS Saratoga. True if this was a 2330's Ambassador class the Vor'cha would have won more convincingly as the OG version could only fire 4 torpedo's from each launcher before reloading. The Vor'cha also was not a match for a Galaxy or a Nebula class starship of the 2360's but was designed for greater mass production which interestingly enough the Romulans followed in the 2370's with the Mogai Class Warbird (Valdore/Norexan) for much the same reasons. Instead of Huge Numbers of Weak ships to overwhelm a stronger opponent or a small number of insanely powerful ships...its more of a decently powerful but able to be built in large numbers philosophy...Sherman and T34 logic from WW2
@@adamlee2111 I agree with this. In TNG it was very firmly established canonically that the Enterprise was the most powerful ship in the Federation fleet, and we see later that there are very few Galaxy class ships in service. The Vor’Cha is far more numerous, so if they were as strong as a Galaxy then the Klingons would completely outmatch the Federation. For a more direct comparison, we see a Vor’Cha class fire on a fully shielded USS Defiant, and then a few episodes later we see the Defiant take fire from the Lakota. It’s very clear if you watch both scenes back to back that the Lakota massively outguns a Vor’Cha. Yes it was upgraded, but surely its phasers weren’t significantly more powerful than much larger and more modern Starfleet ships. The Vor’Cha makes logical sense to sit around modern Ambassador level in terms of overall capability.
@CC-mp1wk not as strong but more numerous. The Vor'Cha proved to be a solid Cruiser class of the Dominion War much like the D7 class of a century before. The Klingons fleet build was more streamlined than Starfleet...the had a small number of ship classes but large numbers of them apart from the Negh'Var - Starfleet had way too many starship classes so would have been a logistical nightmare for the Corps of Engineers. Starship classes that were frontline combat vessels during wartime specifically 😉 The anti borg ships hadn't supplanted the older 23rd Century ships by the wars outbreak
I always assumed the Vor'Cha was a bit older. Like a late 2340s early 2350s design... Enough were in use by 2372 that the loss of one wasn't crippling.
Damn the AI put up a good fight there! Either that, or Vor'cha needs some buffing.
Probably a bit of both. AI seems to do a decent job with certain types of ships. Good torpedo usage (not perfect, but better then some players I've seen), good shield facing rotation. It actually tried to spread out the damage. That final part it seemed to fall off a bit (it could've easily gotten another full aft spread at you, it didn't for some reason).
Still. Surprisingly competent AI perfomance here. And Vor'cha needs a tiny bit of love. Maybe up the damage of those front cannons a little (to emphasise it's ambush-predator design philosophy).
@@necroticavalon5176 yeah I was surprised by the ai’s competence here 😂
I could buff the pulse disruptors and nerf the secondary weapons but I don’t want the vor’cha to be more powerful than an Ambassador class. I think it fits with Klingon philosophy: their main cruisers are weaker than Starfleets but are more numerous. By matching an Ambassador it’s in the same category as the ‘big boys’ and outmatches anything lighter than a heavy cruiser, but there’s still some distance between it and a Galaxy or a D’Deridex. This seems about right to me, I’ve never seen any indication that it’s in Galaxy territory
@@adamlee2111 Don't forget the game's main storyline though. Vor'Cha will be expected to do some pretty heavy lifting in the latter missions, assuming you select the Klingon captain as your backup. Unless you're planning to put him in a Negh'Var or something. As it is now, I don't fancy it's chances against a Hybrid or two. XD Especially piloted by an AI.
See, that's exactly why I think you should put in more Beta canon Klingon ships, to fill in the blanks. That way you can buff the Vor'Cha a bit, while still having ships below it to pick up the slack. As it is now, you've got a HUGE gap, that you're trying to fill, by nerfing the Vor'Cha into some kind of quasi-medium cruiser, while also giving the BoP ridiculous shielding to get it up to Miranda's level (which it's NOT). As it is now, the Vor'Cha is basically a bit better K'Tinga. And that's just not right. Also I really disagree with it being an equal to the Ambassador (which I don't think it even is, right now, I'd put it on par with an Excelsior, given this battle). Ambassador is a 2340's design, vs. a 2360's design in a Vor'Cha. Especially given the technology they obtained from the Federation in various exchanges, the Klingons would've made sure their newest ship would be at least a reasonable match for the Fed heavy hitters. Personally, I'd put it on par with a Nebula. I can agree that it's no match for a Galaxy, but I'd put it in the Nebula's weight class.
I see the Vor'Cha relation to the Galaxy the same as D7's relation to a Connie. A little weaker, but not much. Also don't forget that the Galaxy class was never designed as a pure warship. Klingons basically only design pure warships.
The Ambassador is definitely not a slouch!! I think with more speed it would be very formidable.
Klingon ships handled well can be beasts.
Indeed, I still hate flying them though 😂
@@adamlee2111 They are like an uncomfortable hybrid of Romulan and Cardassian. Tough and durable like the Cardies, but with a dash of good tech and weapons. But, their doctrine is not suited well for this game. Cloaking is just an invitation to get hammered.
The ambassador class is op for its time, 70% as strong as a galaxy class, and though the vor’cha has less torpedo firepower than even the ambassador, it’s cannons are like almost 4 galaxy class ships, it would destroy a galaxy, it would do even better against an ambassador class
Yes, but 85% in one direction. That puts a lot strain on a single shield size. Cloaking mitigates this in Klingon doctrine, but in this game it is not as useful.
The question is, is that a 2240s or 2260s ambassador. It was illuded to and even mentioned in dialogue that the ambassador was a tough ship. And through upgrades, it would have been pretty close to a Galaxy. The Vor'cha struggled against 2 BOP. A Galaxy would mop the floor with it. Its big brother the nek'var would mop the floor with an ambassador or even a Galaxy
@@aaronatwood9298 just checked, the vor’cha’s cannons are 20% stronger than the galaxy class, it’s torpedoes are 50% as powerful~ish, it’s armored hull is 2x the galaxy class. Personally with its cloak in canon, it should wipe a galaxy class in all honesty. Also you mention a vor’cha doing bad against 2 bird of prey, which I don’t remember to be perfectly honest, do you know what class of bird of prey they were?
@@aaronatwood9298 also wanted to mention: if the vor’cha really did bad against 2 bird of prey, that’s not even a bad showing, considering it’s stated in deep space 9 that the 4 main type 12 phaser cannons of the defiant were equal to the two main disruptor cannons on a BoP (assuming they meant the Rotarran). So struggling against essentially 4 defiants, not bad in the slightest
@@Mikerille Tng, can't remember name of episode, worf was trying to restore his name and was on Gowrons ship... Kern rescues them. As for a defiant comparison to a BOP, I don't recall that anywhere in DS9. But the Rotarin was heavily upgraded and the Defiant phasers were as powerful as a Galaxy class.
Where did you get your war variants of the Ambassador, Galaxy, and Nebula?
The War Galaxy is part of the DJ Galaxy pack and the War Nebula is just the CGI Nebula model used in late DS9. I don't have a War Ambassador, this is just how I imagined the Ambassador class to be in the 2370's after decades of refits and upgrades
I think that the ambassador would defeat a Klingon Vorcha.
It does in my other video 😀
Is this the remastered mod? How do we enable the ability to fire multiple phaser arrays at once? 👀
It was the Remastered mod but its heavily modified. Basically its my custom version of Bridge Commander. The multiple phaser arrays are achieved using the multi-targeting scripts
Bring us Kessok Heavy Dominion Battleship and Scimitar.
Currently working on the Dominion Battleship, should have a video up in the next few days 👍