I bought a Black Diamond Pilot ATC to use the same way you used the Smart 2.0. With my body weight (225#) and 9.5mm CanyonTech rope it does not lock up. I tried 5 different carabiners. It was a complete no go for that rope. I had some 10.5mm nylon sheathed rope and it held just fine on that. The technora sheath on the sterling canyon ropes is too slick. I then purchased a Smart 2.0 kit that comes with Mammut's recommended carabiner. Using the Mammut HMS carabiner on the CanyonTech it would not lock up either! The Black Diamond Gridlock carabiner that goes with the Pilot ATC worked like a charm though. I was even able to use the Smart 2.0 as a progress capture to SRT but was not ideal. It is doable though. Lastly, Mammut makes an addon called the "Smarter" for the Smart 2.0. It is meant to prevent one from raising the braking end of the rope up into the wrong position releasing the device. I hope this comment helps someone.
Excellant video and super informative. Thanks for sharing. I've been thinking about rappelling but didn't want to drop 100 on a safe guard or grigri. Going to look more into these methods. Thanks again!
Thanks so much for you videos, I have learned so much from them. Your an excellent teacher! Another descending device I stumbled upon is the Edelrid Jul 2 (squared). It looks like a guide ATC but will lock out when pressure is applied. I have a Mammut Smart 2.0 which works well with my 11.5 mm rope but not my 10 mm rope. The Jul 2 works well with 10mm but even better with the 11.5 mm. Please continue to make videos anything saddle hunting 👍
Spencer, you're super talented and I hope you keep making videos. Us saddle hunters might not be worth a billion clicks. But, if you made other content about things average people actually cared about, with your passion and your delivery, I feel like you could make a living doing this stuff. Best of luck and keep it coming!
I agree that Spence makes great videos, but I prefer he not branch out to average people topics within his "Saddle Hunting" UA-cam channel, because it would dilute the content of this excellent channel that he has created. He might make a great "how to fix your sink" video but if he posted it in this channel it would be noise. Right now, most of the videos that he shares with us is useful to us saddle hunters. Thanks Spencer.
I’m a saddle hunter but also do tree work so I’m familiar with SRS and MRS climbing systems. By far the cheapest, easiest way to descend for a saddle hunter would be the figure 8. I however would tie a prusik backup above the figure 8. If your right handed then you tend your friction hitch with your left hand and your falling end of the rope in your right hand by your waist. I noticed some guys talking about burning up their fingers. If your using correctly sized friction hitch cord compared to your main rope size then you shouldn’t get rope burn unless your just bombing out of the tree. Friction hitch cord should be approximately 10% smaller than your main descent line. Also use hitch cord that is heat resistant, it will last longer. Also if your going to do a hard lock then you would actually do a soft lock like you did then take a bight of rope and run through your carabiner then take the bight and tie two half hitches above your figure 8
I'm doing the same as u Ryan. Tree trimming & saddle hunting. Yesterday I went back on some public land & did a MRS climb up an oak. It's only a couple of days after the gun season closed. The last day of gun season there was a light coating of snow & I was able to see where people were walking aimlessly trying not to ear that tag in their pocket. I walked where the ground was wet due to warmer weather & found the sign I was looking for. I was able to see what people did & what they didn't do. I just got up in a tree walking into the wind @ all times as an observation post. The wind died down & I didn't see a deer. Normally I leave paracord in the tree once I pull my paracord but I won't be sitting in this tree again. I now know which direction & path I need to take to get back on the deer. I found tracks & droppings from after the gun season closed. Also a scrape that was freshened Monday night or early Tuesday morning. When the wind is favorable again Thursday I will be back @ it. Using the MRS method I was able to put my stealth stripped WEI Embattlement up @ chest height & pulled myself up to position myself to bring my bow up & attach my backpack. I like to tether myself in using the 8 mm tactical Oplux with the WEI smaller Carabiner. Still some good days left if u can get back onto the animals & what they have changed due to human intrusion which is gone now.
Another alternative that is not talked about that I think you could do a short vid on is the petzl piranha it's a souped up figure 8 thanks for all the very honest and informative videos you help alot of people in the community!
I've been using the figure 8 for so long I don't know if I can switch, but I like the looks of the Mammut 2.0; I think I'll order a kit an give it a go. Great video once again.
Ordered my Mammut Smart 2.0 and everything I'll need to safely one stick climb. Pumped for hunting this season, thanks for the video. I was worried I'd be stuck waiting for a Madrock Safeguard...
Great job explaining these. Your only the second guy I have seen use the autoblock above the figure 8 the first guys I learned from was at Wes Spur Climbing Company. My first time down the tree I burned my fingers on the rope LOL.
Picked up a figure 8 after seeing this video, and was blown away by how well it works. Well worth the 15 bucks or so to give it a try and see if works for you.
Search 'Belay escape with fig 8 descender',you will understand the technique better, rescue fig 8 device with two horns(or the ones used in canyoneering) will work better..but remember always keep a safety third hand- prusik
Great video. I am just completing my first season in a saddle. I have been climbing with Skeletors and I interested in trying one sticking. I just picked up a basic rappelling kit from EWO. I bought a Mammut Smart 2.0 after watching this and a bunch of videos. I didn’t see the warning about buying the package, which I did. Definitely a little bit of slip with the Smart HMS carabiner, although if I put four loops on my autoblock that’s not an issue. I will definitely try other HMS carabiners. Other than that I really like the Smart 2.0, very easy to control.
this is the exact video I've been looking for. I have more experience in rock/mountain climbing and I am getting into saddle hunting. I don't wanna spend $100 on the Madrock and only want a Figure 8 as you can manipulate and position it for different ways and to even ascend. plus they're cheaper and literally everywhere.
Great video! Love all your videos. As a new saddle hunter I really appreciate your reviews and break downs it really helps new guys like me. I was wondering would you wait for a madrock or go with the mammut? Especially for a first timer one sticker/saddle hunter.
My method is very similar to the moot system. I use a guide atc with my carabiner in the guide mode hole, not in the cable loop with a auto block alongside. What i do is when im ready to descend, i adjuat my foot loop to a shorter length and attach it to the smaller hole on the front of the guide atc, much like a car gas pedal, the more you press the more quickly you descend and when you take the pressure off, you stop along with your auto block in your one hand and the tag end in the other. Total control and very safe
@@SaddleHunter Im still doing the dance! You are spot on regarding the need to match up the perfect carabiner. Im a robust fella and my combo is going to be a bit different.
If you clip your rope back through your carabiner it will self tend without using an added tender. It's mind blowing how easy it is without adding anything else to your system.
Thanks for the vid! What carabiner did you find locks up the best on the Mammut? The mammut hms biner I have doesn’t lock up quite as well as I’d like without really relying on the autoblock.
Hey Spencer, Happy New Year to you and your family! Quick question, any specific caribeaner you recommend for the madrock safeguard? I have a madrock coming and have been using a rocklock caribeaner for my ropeman 1 and 8mm ropes. Its a thicker caribeaner, would it work for the madrock as well? Thanks!
Great stuff! One question on the friction hitch above the descender: doesnt this lead to a lot of wear on the friction hitch? It seems to be doing all the work here.
Very informative as always! Ignoring the cost difference and availability issues, would you still take the Mammut 2.0 over the Safeguard? It seems like have the ability to backup the 2.0 adds a degree of redundancy not offered by the Safeguard, but I’m a total novice, so I may be incorrect on that.
Thanks! I tested both. The pilot had a lot of slip on my 9mm rope with every carabiner I tried. I imagine it’s fine with 10mm or maybe even a carabiner I didn’t try.
Thank you for all the great videos....I'm just now getting into saddle hunting and have 40' of Oplux. I have narrowed rappelling devices down to the Mammut Wall Alpine or the Black Diamond ATC-XP since they are both capable of operating on single lines smaller than 8MM. I have 2 questions: First, if I have the Schwabisch under load above the ATC and I stop to take off a stick, will it be easy to break the friction of the Schwabisch to resume the rappel? Second, on his site, I saw that you had suggested to "Privileged Bowhunter" that he use the 'guide hole' on the ATC as a tender for the Schwabisch...looks like that would work on the Mammut Wall Alpine as well...do you still like that idea? Thanks in advance!
This year I am using a Prussic to climb/hunt and figure 8 to descend. But I must be much lighter because I can't rappel with one wrap, it's way too slow. I use two wraps to stop and zero to rappel down with a hand above and below the device. I tried using an auto block but i didn't like it.
Do you know whether the guide atc is functional with samson predator 11.4mm rope? I see that the device is rated for 8.1-11mm but thinking that 11.4 would simply make rappel slower which would be better in my opinion. If you might have predator rope would you mind checking to see how rope feeds through device even if only a short tether length rappel while under body weight????
Awesome video! What kind of rope/cordage and backup configuration (prusik, distel, klemheist, etc.) are you using here? I use the Sterling Canyon C-IV rope with a Sterling TRC distel hitch as my backup, while using a Petzl GriGri as my lowering device, but it's a pain in the butt bringing the distel hitch all the way down the rappel rope with me as I descend, and then dragging it all the way towards my quicklink to reset it for use.
My main line is 9mm Sterling Canyon C-IV. I used 5.5mm Beal Kevlar in a Schwabisch hitch when backing up above the device. For my autoblock configuration, I use 6.8mm Sterling Hollowblock2 (13") with 5 wraps around the main line.
I fought with what to buy for a long time before getting into one sticking and went with the figure 8. my method rn is to ascend and sit with both my figure 8 and autoblock below the figure 8. i triple lock my rope for sits and have to say its a small pain to adjust at hunting height. My hybrid experimental setup will be figure 8/autoblock for ascension and rapelling, but using a kong duck at height. ask me anything to do with these if you want!
Hey Spencer, Ive watched this video a few times now, and I'm considering picking up the Mammut to give one stick / repel a try. In the process of researching I came across the Black Diamond Pilot which to me looks like a similar device. Have you checked it out yet? What are your thoughts?
Hey man! I tested both. The pilot had a lot of slip on my 9mm rope with every carabiner I tried. I imagine it’s fine with 10mm or maybe even a carabiner I didn’t try. But yes it would be the same process. Even the Black Diamond Rock Lock which worked great on the Mammut, had a good amount of slip on the pilot.
As usual you hit the nail on the head all three devices. I have a question, on the Madrock, do you use a back up like an autoblock for safety? Or are you confident using Madrock as a stand alone? Thanks again for another informative video!
The Safeguard directions explicitly say not to put a hitch below the device because it hinders the function and might cause a failure. When I used the safeguard I never backed it up, but if you want to I'd use a Schwabisch hitch above the safeguard, but I would leave it slack.
Good question! I'm releasing a video with that detail later this week. Long story short, you attach a pull down rope behind your quick link and pull it out of the tree.
Maybe you can help, I purchased exact setup and i hunted once with great results. Im testing again at my backyard and rope is slipping so much not sure what is going on. I tried holding rope down and it still slipping.
Hey Spencer! Going with the Mammut 2.0. One question...Do you use your report rope as your teather when you get to hunting height? Or do you replace the setup with an actual teather?
I was just thinking the same thing after watching this video for about the 10th time. I still may use my tether at hunting height. I do like the idea of actually being attached to the tree the entire time with something other than my linemans belt.
So is there a way to use the ATC or Figure 8 for ascending and locking you in as your one stick. I am guessing running an auto block or prusik is a good idea?
In this video you discuss moving around the tree while hunting. Do you hunt hanging/attached to the same rope you climbed up with, or do you transition over to a shorter tether line? I like the thought of hunting from the same line I climbed up on, but that leaves a long end dangling and visible to animals below. It can slap the tree and other vegetation causing alarm to deer. How do you deal with that?
Hello Spencer. My question is can I safely Ascend the tree, Hang and Hunt, then Rappel with the figure 8. I know I would need a back up, I just want to know could I use a Hard lock to do this safely?
Good question. I've never tried to ascend or hunt with the hard lock. The lock is designed to work under tension, I'm not sure I'd trust it unweighted. If you put an autoblock below it though, you'd probably be fine.
I tested both. The pilot had a lot of slip on my 9mm rope with every carabiner I tried. I imagine it’s fine with 10mm or maybe even a carabiner I didn’t try.
Does it matter how we attach our carabiners between our harness and our rope? Specifically is it okay for the gate to be either facing up or facing down. I see you are facing the gate down when you attach yours, but I like my gate to be facing up since I sometimes want to add my back support band to that carabiner once I am up on my platform and for me that is easier to do if the gate on my carabiner is facing up.
The XC is more comfortable, but there are some features of the Sidewinder that I prefer. I like the belt, the riggers belt feature, and the rappel loop.
After watching your video I bought a Mammut Smart 2.0 (because I want to be able to let a second family hunt with me and they will use the safeguard and I will use the mammut as my backup/secondary gear). I currently ascend and descend trees using my madrock safeguard. I am rewatching this video before I go try the mammut. Around the 4 minute mark of this video you say that you use friction hitches when ascending the tree. I understand that being better than the ATC or the figure 8 for ascending, but is the friction hitches also better for ascending than the mammut smart 2.0 and even better than the safeguard?
Have you tried this with the Black Diamond ATC Pilot? It looks like it does the same thing, but looks more ergonomic. Would it be the same process at the Mammut Smart 2.0?
I tested both. The pilot had a lot of slip on my 9mm rope with every carabiner I tried. I imagine it’s fine with 10mm or maybe even a carabiner I didn’t try. But yes it would be the same process.
Question with your autoblock setup. Say your bridge or mammut breaks and you're now in a catastrophic phase, your autoblock would catch you but it's hooked into your lineman or bridge loop. Wouldn't you now be hanging sideways?
My autoblock set-up is pretty standard for the rock climbing community. Yes you would be hanging sideways, but the chances of a catastrophic bridge or device failure are so minuscule, especially with regular inspection, that I don't worry about it. Hanging sideways is better than hitting the ground :)
@@SaddleHunter Thanks for replying. Completely agree, just wanted to confirm the thought process. Thanks for the great video, helped me decide to go with saddle hunting for the first time in a tree and archery season.
Are you not able to use the Mammut for SRT? I think that would be a factor for me. My plan was to use my tether to climb and using figure 8 or ATC to rappel (so far my options). Then if I like the tree I could set up a preset and SRT climb the next time.
Yes! I tested the ATC Pilot and the Mammut Smart 2.0 simultaneously. With any of these passive assisted braking devices there is a dance between a persons weight, rope diameter, and the carabiner to get the device to lock up without slip. I tried 6 different carabiners, including 2 HMS style carabiners with the ATC pilot on my 9mm rope and could not get lock up without slip. With a larger rope or maybe even another carabiner I’m sure it wouldn’t be an issue.
@@SaddleHunter I'd love to have an update on how that works out, as obviously it's important in a hunting scenario to be quiet as possible. I had made the mistake at one point of hockey taping my carabiner that connects to my bridge, and ended up with a gummy mess, due to friction. Great video! Thanks!
Disclaimer: No trolling here; this is a genuine ask for help. I watch your videos and have learned a lot from them. Thank you for that, by the way! On your recommendation, I purchased a Smart 2.0 to use as my ATC/positioning device for one-sticking. I'm using 9mm Canyon Elite rope. I weigh 195#. I cannot get this device to reliably hold the rope regardless of the carabiner I use, which includes the recommended 'biner from Mammut, as I bought it in a package deal. I know that I can use an autoblock, but if I don't hold the brake line, it will creep through the device. As it stands, this Smart is useless to me and I've had to go back to the standard Prusik and tender combo. Is there anything you can think of to help fix the problem? I'm at a loss. It's impossible to return used climbing equipment, and I'd hate to be out the money I spent only to have to be another hunter stuck waiting on the expensive and elusive Safeguard.
@@pantherlefty I hate to say it, but my solution was finally finding a Safeguard. I ended up getting one from Campmor. I had to sit on a backorder list for almost a year, but it finally came in the mail a few weeks ago.
@@THELanceParrish For what it's worth, I just got two new HMS style biners (Black Diamond Rocklock and Metolius Element). They both hold significantly better than the Kong HMS that I had been using with my Smart 2.0 and Canyon Elite. I don't know what the difference is between the biners that results in such a disparity in performance. Initial use in the basement makes me think one of these will work well enough to hunt from. I had no creep from either one under full body weight. I was never able to load my full body weight without brake hand tension or an autoblock snugged up with the Kong. With both the Rocklock and Element I can hang full body weight with no brake hand tension and no tension from the autoblock. It looks promising that the Smart 2.0 will work for me.
I know nothing about what you are showing, but I am interested. 1st question, how do you get the rope up in the tree? So you can do what you are showing in the viedo.
A figure 8 can do all the things that the mamut smart 2.0 does, and some of the adjustments are easier to make. With a pruisic knot, you only need one hand to control your descend with the figure 8. The mamut smart 2.0, you need two hands.
I've been trying to work this out in my head and can't see how this is a one-handed operation. Wouldn't you need one hand on the brake line and the other tending the prusik? I'd love to know an alternative as that's what I'm doing now. Thanks!
@@txawjkawmxyooj6919 So, I assume you’re using the figure 8 for your main attachment while hunting? Or are you hanging on a prusik and removing the upper one after attaching the 8 and lower prusik?
Can't find a safeguard? There's also the petzl Grigri. About the same price but it's basically the same thing. Petzl invented the camming mechanism first anyway.
"Hickson fritch" 🤣🤣🤣 awesome video love your stuff!
There comes a point where you’ve shot a clip 4 times and you just stop caring 😂
@@SaddleHunter I can only imagine! Myself and others included appreciate all the effort you put in for sure!
Get your Mammut Smart 2.0 now guys cause they will be sold out in a week lol. Awesome video. You are always so informational.
Thanks dude.
I bought a Black Diamond Pilot ATC to use the same way you used the Smart 2.0. With my body weight (225#) and 9.5mm CanyonTech rope it does not lock up. I tried 5 different carabiners. It was a complete no go for that rope. I had some 10.5mm nylon sheathed rope and it held just fine on that. The technora sheath on the sterling canyon ropes is too slick. I then purchased a Smart 2.0 kit that comes with Mammut's recommended carabiner. Using the Mammut HMS carabiner on the CanyonTech it would not lock up either! The Black Diamond Gridlock carabiner that goes with the Pilot ATC worked like a charm though. I was even able to use the Smart 2.0 as a progress capture to SRT but was not ideal. It is doable though. Lastly, Mammut makes an addon called the "Smarter" for the Smart 2.0. It is meant to prevent one from raising the braking end of the rope up into the wrong position releasing the device. I hope this comment helps someone.
Very well put together video that is easy to understand! Good job! Answered so many of the questions I had.
I’m glad I had my MRSG well before the saddle hunting craze and even longer before the aluminum shortage.
Good video Spencer.
Excellant video and super informative. Thanks for sharing. I've been thinking about rappelling but didn't want to drop 100 on a safe guard or grigri. Going to look more into these methods. Thanks again!
Thanks so much for you videos, I have learned so much from them. Your an excellent teacher! Another descending device I stumbled upon is the Edelrid Jul 2 (squared). It looks like a guide ATC but will lock out when pressure is applied. I have a Mammut Smart 2.0 which works well with my 11.5 mm rope but not my 10 mm rope. The Jul 2 works well with 10mm but even better with the 11.5 mm. Please continue to make videos anything saddle hunting 👍
This is such a helpful video, Spencer.
Spencer, you're super talented and I hope you keep making videos. Us saddle hunters might not be worth a billion clicks. But, if you made other content about things average people actually cared about, with your passion and your delivery, I feel like you could make a living doing this stuff.
Best of luck and keep it coming!
I agree that Spence makes great videos, but I prefer he not branch out to average people topics within his "Saddle Hunting" UA-cam channel, because it would dilute the content of this excellent channel that he has created. He might make a great "how to fix your sink" video but if he posted it in this channel it would be noise. Right now, most of the videos that he shares with us is useful to us saddle hunters. Thanks Spencer.
@@carypeaden4147 I agree. I didn't mean he should change the theme of this channel
Have been a big fan of yours love the products you bring and the camera angles are awesome it shows how they all work on one els is doing it 😀
Thanks for the support! The extra camera angles add a little production time but they seem to be worth it.
I’ve been waiting months to buy a safeguard. In one video you just sold me on the Mammut smart 2.0
Nicely done sir 👏🏼
It just doesn’t look like I could silence it all that well.
Nice! Thanks for another great video!
Thanks man!
Wow, great vidio and great explanation on all 3. Keep the videos coming.
Thanks Gary!
I’m a saddle hunter but also do tree work so I’m familiar with SRS and MRS climbing systems. By far the cheapest, easiest way to descend for a saddle hunter would be the figure 8. I however would tie a prusik backup above the figure 8. If your right handed then you tend your friction hitch with your left hand and your falling end of the rope in your right hand by your waist. I noticed some guys talking about burning up their fingers. If your using correctly sized friction hitch cord compared to your main rope size then you shouldn’t get rope burn unless your just bombing out of the tree. Friction hitch cord should be approximately 10% smaller than your main descent line. Also use hitch cord that is heat resistant, it will last longer. Also if your going to do a hard lock then you would actually do a soft lock like you did then take a bight of rope and run through your carabiner then take the bight and tie two half hitches above your figure 8
I'm doing the same as u Ryan. Tree trimming & saddle hunting. Yesterday I went back on some public land & did a MRS climb up an oak. It's only a couple of days after the gun season closed. The last day of gun season there was a light coating of snow & I was able to see where people were walking aimlessly trying not to ear that tag in their pocket. I walked where the ground was wet due to warmer weather & found the sign I was looking for. I was able to see what people did & what they didn't do. I just got up in a tree walking into the wind @ all times as an observation post. The wind died down & I didn't see a deer. Normally I leave paracord in the tree once I pull my paracord but I won't be sitting in this tree again. I now know which direction & path I need to take to get back on the deer. I found tracks & droppings from after the gun season closed. Also a scrape that was freshened Monday night or early Tuesday morning. When the wind is favorable again Thursday I will be back @ it. Using the MRS method I was able to put my stealth stripped WEI Embattlement up @ chest height & pulled myself up to position myself to bring my bow up & attach my backpack. I like to tether myself in using the 8 mm tactical Oplux with the WEI smaller Carabiner. Still some good days left if u can get back onto the animals & what they have changed due to human intrusion which is gone now.
Lol
A lot for me to remember,lol.I just got my saddle and sticks and platform,I’m going to start practicing for next year bow hunting.
Another alternative that is not talked about that I think you could do a short vid on is the petzl piranha it's a souped up figure 8 thanks for all the very honest and informative videos you help alot of people in the community!
Man this video is awesome !
Great insight. Thank you!
I've been using the figure 8 for so long I don't know if I can switch, but I like the looks of the Mammut 2.0; I think I'll order a kit an give it a go. Great video once again.
Thanks man. If you order one let me know how you like it. Don't be afraid to try a variety of carabiners until you get good lock up.
Ordered my Mammut Smart 2.0 and everything I'll need to safely one stick climb. Pumped for hunting this season, thanks for the video. I was worried I'd be stuck waiting for a Madrock Safeguard...
Good deal, man. I hope it works out great for you. Just remember if you get some slip, try some different carabiners.
Great job explaining these. Your only the second guy I have seen use the autoblock above the figure 8 the first guys I learned from was at Wes Spur Climbing Company. My first time down the tree I burned my fingers on the rope LOL.
Yeah without that extra wrap around the figure eight it really wants to take off and you need to supply a lot of pressure with the brake hand.
Picked up a figure 8 after seeing this video, and was blown away by how well it works. Well worth the 15 bucks or so to give it a try and see if works for you.
Search 'Belay escape with fig 8 descender',you will understand the technique better, rescue fig 8 device with two horns(or the ones used in canyoneering) will work better..but remember always keep a safety third hand- prusik
Gotta have that prusik. It's a life saver
Great video. I am just completing my first season in a saddle. I have been climbing with Skeletors and I interested in trying one sticking. I just picked up a basic rappelling kit from EWO. I bought a Mammut Smart 2.0 after watching this and a bunch of videos. I didn’t see the warning about buying the package, which I did. Definitely a little bit of slip with the Smart HMS carabiner, although if I put four loops on my autoblock that’s not an issue. I will definitely try other HMS carabiners. Other than that I really like the Smart 2.0, very easy to control.
Just got my figure 8 and ropes In today 🤘
this is the exact video I've been looking for. I have more experience in rock/mountain climbing and I am getting into saddle hunting. I don't wanna spend $100 on the Madrock and only want a Figure 8 as you can manipulate and position it for different ways and to even ascend. plus they're cheaper and literally everywhere.
Great video! Love all your videos. As a new saddle hunter I really appreciate your reviews and break downs it really helps new guys like me. I was wondering would you wait for a madrock or go with the mammut? Especially for a first timer one sticker/saddle hunter.
My method is very similar to the moot system. I use a guide atc with my carabiner in the guide mode hole, not in the cable loop with a auto block alongside. What i do is when im ready to descend, i adjuat my foot loop to a shorter length and attach it to the smaller hole on the front of the guide atc, much like a car gas pedal, the more you press the more quickly you descend and when you take the pressure off, you stop along with your auto block in your one hand and the tag end in the other. Total control and very safe
The Edelrid Jul2 is another awesome tool!
Excellent video. I’m trying a Munter with an autoblock backup this year.
Thanks. That should work great!
Well done! Im giving the Mammut a shot.
Thanks Jerry. Have you tested it yet?
@@SaddleHunter Im still doing the dance! You are spot on regarding the need to match up the perfect carabiner. Im a robust fella and my combo is going to be a bit different.
Great video !!
Thanks!
If you clip your rope back through your carabiner it will self tend without using an added tender. It's mind blowing how easy it is without adding anything else to your system.
Thanks for the vid! What carabiner did you find locks up the best on the Mammut? The mammut hms biner I have doesn’t lock up quite as well as I’d like without really relying on the autoblock.
Hey Spencer, Happy New Year to you and your family! Quick question, any specific caribeaner you recommend for the madrock safeguard? I have a madrock coming and have been using a rocklock caribeaner for my ropeman 1 and 8mm ropes. Its a thicker caribeaner, would it work for the madrock as well? Thanks!
Great stuff! One question on the friction hitch above the descender: doesnt this lead to a lot of wear on the friction hitch? It seems to be doing all the work here.
Very informative as always! Ignoring the cost difference and availability issues, would you still take the Mammut 2.0 over the Safeguard? It seems like have the ability to backup the 2.0 adds a degree of redundancy not offered by the Safeguard, but I’m a total novice, so I may be incorrect on that.
Love the content you put out. You should also take a look at the Black Diamond Pilot and compare it to the Mammut Smart 2.0.
Thanks! I tested both. The pilot had a lot of slip on my 9mm rope with every carabiner I tried. I imagine it’s fine with 10mm or maybe even a carabiner I didn’t try.
Great video and details here Spencer!
What saddle are you using in this video? Good information by the way. I like your reviews.
Thank you for all the great videos....I'm just now getting into saddle hunting and have 40' of Oplux. I have narrowed rappelling devices down to the Mammut Wall Alpine or the Black Diamond ATC-XP since they are both capable of operating on single lines smaller than 8MM. I have 2 questions:
First, if I have the Schwabisch under load above the ATC and I stop to take off a stick, will it be easy to break the friction of the Schwabisch to resume the rappel?
Second, on his site, I saw that you had suggested to "Privileged Bowhunter" that he use the 'guide hole' on the ATC as a tender for the Schwabisch...looks like that would work on the Mammut Wall Alpine as well...do you still like that idea?
Thanks in advance!
I hunted last year with my petzl reverso. Obviously it works great but I still invested in the safeguard this year.
This year I am using a Prussic to climb/hunt and figure 8 to descend. But I must be much lighter because I can't rappel with one wrap, it's way too slow. I use two wraps to stop and zero to rappel down with a hand above and below the device. I tried using an auto block but i didn't like it.
With a figure 8, for more friction, you can double wrap your rope through the large hole instead of just using a single bite.
Do you know whether the guide atc is functional with samson predator 11.4mm rope? I see that the device is rated for 8.1-11mm but thinking that 11.4 would simply make rappel slower which would be better in my opinion. If you might have predator rope would you mind checking to see how rope feeds through device even if only a short tether length rappel while under body weight????
Awesome video! What kind of rope/cordage and backup configuration (prusik, distel, klemheist, etc.) are you using here? I use the Sterling Canyon C-IV rope with a Sterling TRC distel hitch as my backup, while using a Petzl GriGri as my lowering device, but it's a pain in the butt bringing the distel hitch all the way down the rappel rope with me as I descend, and then dragging it all the way towards my quicklink to reset it for use.
My main line is 9mm Sterling Canyon C-IV. I used 5.5mm Beal Kevlar in a Schwabisch hitch when backing up above the device. For my autoblock configuration, I use 6.8mm Sterling Hollowblock2 (13") with 5 wraps around the main line.
Please provide a link to the 5.5mm Beal Kevlar
I fought with what to buy for a long time before getting into one sticking and went with the figure 8. my method rn is to ascend and sit with both my figure 8 and autoblock below the figure 8. i triple lock my rope for sits and have to say its a small pain to adjust at hunting height. My hybrid experimental setup will be figure 8/autoblock for ascension and rapelling, but using a kong duck at height. ask me anything to do with these if you want!
Hey Spencer, Ive watched this video a few times now, and I'm considering picking up the Mammut to give one stick / repel a try. In the process of researching I came across the Black Diamond Pilot which to me looks like a similar device. Have you checked it out yet? What are your thoughts?
Hey man! I tested both. The pilot had a lot of slip on my 9mm rope with every carabiner I tried. I imagine it’s fine with 10mm or maybe even a carabiner I didn’t try. But yes it would be the same process. Even the Black Diamond Rock Lock which worked great on the Mammut, had a good amount of slip on the pilot.
@@SaddleHunter thanks for the feedback. It appears that the BD has a bit better fit and finish but definitely want something that functions well.
As usual you hit the nail on the head all three devices. I have a question, on the Madrock, do you use a back up like an autoblock for safety? Or are you confident using Madrock as a stand alone? Thanks again for another informative video!
The Safeguard directions explicitly say not to put a hitch below the device because it hinders the function and might cause a failure. When I used the safeguard I never backed it up, but if you want to I'd use a Schwabisch hitch above the safeguard, but I would leave it slack.
Could you use a ropeman as type of auto lock?
Thanks for the great video. Help me out here. If I rappel out of the tree, how do I get my rope down?
Good question! I'm releasing a video with that detail later this week. Long story short, you attach a pull down rope behind your quick link and pull it out of the tree.
Maybe you can help, I purchased exact setup and i hunted once with great results. Im testing again at my backyard and rope is slipping so much not sure what is going on. I tried holding rope down and it still slipping.
What about using a Ropeman for an auto block?
What do you personally like best, the atc or the mammut 2.0?
Hey Spencer! Going with the Mammut 2.0. One question...Do you use your report rope as your teather when you get to hunting height? Or do you replace the setup with an actual teather?
I was just thinking the same thing after watching this video for about the 10th time. I still may use my tether at hunting height. I do like the idea of actually being attached to the tree the entire time with something other than my linemans belt.
So is there a way to use the ATC or Figure 8 for ascending and locking you in as your one stick. I am guessing running an auto block or prusik is a good idea?
So my question is which do you like better? The mammut or the safeguard?
How well do you think the Elderid Jul2 would work instead of the Mammut Smart 2.0?
@Spencer, Are you still using the Mammut Smart 2.0 for 1 stick Climbing?
What are thoughts on the Black Diamond Pilot?
what rope are you using with the mammut smart 2.0?
In this video you discuss moving around the tree while hunting. Do you hunt hanging/attached to the same rope you climbed up with, or do you transition over to a shorter tether line? I like the thought of hunting from the same line I climbed up on, but that leaves a long end dangling and visible to animals below. It can slap the tree and other vegetation causing alarm to deer. How do you deal with that?
I do hunt hanging from the same line that I climbed up with, however I put the extra rope in my drop out bag and only drop it right before I rappel.
what kind of friction hitch did you use?
Hello Spencer. My question is can I safely Ascend the tree, Hang and Hunt, then Rappel with the figure 8. I know I would need a back up, I just want to know could I use a Hard lock to do this safely?
Good question. I've never tried to ascend or hunt with the hard lock. The lock is designed to work under tension, I'm not sure I'd trust it unweighted. If you put an autoblock below it though, you'd probably be fine.
Would be interested to see your thoughts on the Mammut smart 2.0 vs black diamond pilot which is also assisted braking device.
I tested both. The pilot had a lot of slip on my 9mm rope with every carabiner I tried. I imagine it’s fine with 10mm or maybe even a carabiner I didn’t try.
Thanks for the response that's exactly what I was needing to know bc I also run 9mm rope.
Does it matter how we attach our carabiners between our harness and our rope? Specifically is it okay for the gate to be either facing up or facing down. I see you are facing the gate down when you attach yours, but I like my gate to be facing up since I sometimes want to add my back support band to that carabiner once I am up on my platform and for me that is easier to do if the gate on my carabiner is facing up.
Gate faceing down always
do you guys let your rappel rope dangle while hunting??
Any way to ascend srt with the memmut?
What mm rope do you recommend with mammut?
Do you need to two carabiners with the figure 8?
Sidewinder or XC?? I have an XC enjoy it but your review has me considering a Sidewinder
The XC is more comfortable, but there are some features of the Sidewinder that I prefer. I like the belt, the riggers belt feature, and the rappel loop.
Can you run the smart 2.0 with SRT?
After watching your video I bought a Mammut Smart 2.0 (because I want to be able to let a second family hunt with me and they will use the safeguard and I will use the mammut as my backup/secondary gear). I currently ascend and descend trees using my madrock safeguard.
I am rewatching this video before I go try the mammut. Around the 4 minute mark of this video you say that you use friction hitches when ascending the tree. I understand that being better than the ATC or the figure 8 for ascending, but is the friction hitches also better for ascending than the mammut smart 2.0 and even better than the safeguard?
I went with the smart 2.0 thanks to your video. Did you find a good way to silence it up? Thanks for the info
did you figure out how to silence it? that's the only thing holding me back
@@based_engineer8962 I haven’t tried to yet. I was hoping someone had figured out a great way to do it so I’m not the guinea pig 😂
Petzl grigri is the way to go for those not confident with ropes and rappelling
just bought the smart 2.0, what reppel rope do you recommend to buy?
I like the 9mm Canyon but keep in my the smaller the rope the more you might have to search for a carabiner that causes it to lock up tight.
What friction hitch are you using above the repel device please ?
A Schwabisch hitch
can you srt with the mammut?
Have you tried this with the Black Diamond ATC Pilot? It looks like it does the same thing, but looks more ergonomic. Would it be the same process at the Mammut Smart 2.0?
I tested both. The pilot had a lot of slip on my 9mm rope with every carabiner I tried. I imagine it’s fine with 10mm or maybe even a carabiner I didn’t try. But yes it would be the same process.
@@SaddleHunter Thank you so much, this saves me a lot of trial and error.
Question with your autoblock setup. Say your bridge or mammut breaks and you're now in a catastrophic phase, your autoblock would catch you but it's hooked into your lineman or bridge loop. Wouldn't you now be hanging sideways?
My autoblock set-up is pretty standard for the rock climbing community. Yes you would be hanging sideways, but the chances of a catastrophic bridge or device failure are so minuscule, especially with regular inspection, that I don't worry about it. Hanging sideways is better than hitting the ground :)
@@SaddleHunter Thanks for replying. Completely agree, just wanted to confirm the thought process. Thanks for the great video, helped me decide to go with saddle hunting for the first time in a tree and archery season.
Are you not able to use the Mammut for SRT? I think that would be a factor for me. My plan was to use my tether to climb and using figure 8 or ATC to rappel (so far my options). Then if I like the tree I could set up a preset and SRT climb the next time.
If I were doing what you are suggesting, I'd use a Guide ATC. I have a video on SRT climbing with a Guide ATC. I've never tried SRT with the Mammut.
@@SaddleHunter thank you and I’ve already watches the other video a few times. 😁
Still like my Petzel ID hands free, I trust it @ 400' plus only problem $300 bucks but I use it for more than hunting.
Have you looked at the black diamond pilot?
Yes! I tested the ATC Pilot and the Mammut Smart 2.0 simultaneously. With any of these passive assisted braking devices there is a dance between a persons weight, rope diameter, and the carabiner to get the device to lock up without slip. I tried 6 different carabiners, including 2 HMS style carabiners with the ATC pilot on my 9mm rope and could not get lock up without slip. With a larger rope or maybe even another carabiner I’m sure it wouldn’t be an issue.
Any metal on metal noise issues with the mammut while taking up slack etc?
Yes you get some noise. I'm going to wrap my carabiner in hockey tape and stealth strip the sides of the mammut to minimize noise.
@@SaddleHunter I'd love to have an update on how that works out, as obviously it's important in a hunting scenario to be quiet as possible. I had made the mistake at one point of hockey taping my carabiner that connects to my bridge, and ended up with a gummy mess, due to friction. Great video! Thanks!
Since I use the RescTech, the Mammut won't work as is. Here's hoping for a similar device for smaller rope.
alpine atc used in same manor he spoke of. The Alpine is designed for smaller ropes. I believe its in spec for resctech
Edelrid makes a similar passive assisted braking device for smaller diameter ropes.
I Use the Rescue 8, not the Super 8 because the Rescue rms have a built in safety feature.
Disclaimer: No trolling here; this is a genuine ask for help.
I watch your videos and have learned a lot from them. Thank you for that, by the way! On your recommendation, I purchased a Smart 2.0 to use as my ATC/positioning device for one-sticking. I'm using 9mm Canyon Elite rope. I weigh 195#. I cannot get this device to reliably hold the rope regardless of the carabiner I use, which includes the recommended 'biner from Mammut, as I bought it in a package deal. I know that I can use an autoblock, but if I don't hold the brake line, it will creep through the device. As it stands, this Smart is useless to me and I've had to go back to the standard Prusik and tender combo. Is there anything you can think of to help fix the problem? I'm at a loss. It's impossible to return used climbing equipment, and I'd hate to be out the money I spent only to have to be another hunter stuck waiting on the expensive and elusive Safeguard.
I'm having the same issue and same equipment (except I'm using a Kong HMS biner). Have you figured anything out yet?
@@pantherlefty I hate to say it, but my solution was finally finding a Safeguard. I ended up getting one from Campmor. I had to sit on a backorder list for almost a year, but it finally came in the mail a few weeks ago.
@@THELanceParrish For what it's worth, I just got two new HMS style biners (Black Diamond Rocklock and Metolius Element). They both hold significantly better than the Kong HMS that I had been using with my Smart 2.0 and Canyon Elite. I don't know what the difference is between the biners that results in such a disparity in performance. Initial use in the basement makes me think one of these will work well enough to hunt from. I had no creep from either one under full body weight. I was never able to load my full body weight without brake hand tension or an autoblock snugged up with the Kong. With both the Rocklock and Element I can hang full body weight with no brake hand tension and no tension from the autoblock. It looks promising that the Smart 2.0 will work for me.
I know nothing about what you are showing, but I am interested. 1st question, how do you get the rope up in the tree? So you can do what you are showing in the viedo.
Do you prefer the Mamut or the safeguard? Is the safeguard worth the extra money?
Also what HMS carabiners do you like for the Mammut? Thanks.
Do you have Instagram? Will the Mammut work with 8mm rope?
A figure 8 can do all the things that the mamut smart 2.0 does, and some of the adjustments are easier to make. With a pruisic knot, you only need one hand to control your descend with the figure 8. The mamut smart 2.0, you need two hands.
I've been trying to work this out in my head and can't see how this is a one-handed operation. Wouldn't you need one hand on the brake line and the other tending the prusik? I'd love to know an alternative as that's what I'm doing now. Thanks!
@@THELanceParrish. What I do is I tie the pruisic below the figure 8 to my linen loop and I just use my right hand to control it while descending.
@@txawjkawmxyooj6919 So, I assume you’re using the figure 8 for your main attachment while hunting? Or are you hanging on a prusik and removing the upper one after attaching the 8 and lower prusik?
Can't find a safeguard? There's also the petzl Grigri. About the same price but it's basically the same thing. Petzl invented the camming mechanism first anyway.
I'm honestly not sure: Does the Grigri have an internal spring (much like the lifeguard)? For some reason, I thought it did.
@@THELanceParrish the older models I have experience with have an internal spring yes. I'd assumed the new models do too.
Well its too bad that mammut isn't rated for 8mm ropes seeing as i just bought 35ft of resc tech
It’s hard to find any assisted braking devices rated for 8mm.
@@SaddleHunter I bought one anyway and will try it, if I like it enough I’ll switch back to 9mm
zig zag , rope wrench, rope runner, akimbo all better choices
HE SAID HITCHIN FRITCH LOL
Mixing words is my specialty :)
@@SaddleHunter my wife does it all the time her name is Samantha so I call them Samisms
shorter bridge may be better, you would not have to work your hands so high
Idk y people spend more money on junk other then a figure 8 it’s the cheapest simplest way to repel that won’t fail if u double it up if needed!
Great video just spent more money lol
H I C T I O N F R I T CH
After I shot that clip like four times, I thought “oh screw it, hiction fritch makes the cut” 😂
@@SaddleHunter I like the term and am going to start using it exclusively moving forward!