Canon C400 - Underwhelming Or Is It Enough?
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- Опубліковано 4 чер 2024
- First thoughts and opinions about the announcement of the Canon EOS C400. Features, price, value, and where it sits in their lineup.
Canon C400 - geni.us/BrpaXGg
CVP's video on the Canon C400 - • Canon EOS C400 | In-De...
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When the C200 came out, it was an even weirder less sense making camera, and it turned out to be phenomenal and an absolute workhorse for many like myself. To me, this is the spiritual successor to the C200, and at its price point, the C400 looks to be an amazing all around tool. Funny enough, the C400 is what I thought the Fx6 II would be. The C400 will be an absolute machine for corporate and doc work. I dont need one, but.....
Did you pre-order it?
@@Josh_Sattin Yeah he did 🤘
It’s kind of what the C200 should have been (minus the 6K and full frame) mid range cinema camera which has raw and 10 bit recording options. Definitely the successor to it (and cannibalising the C300 & C500 at the same time).
This is certainly a threat to the FX6s market however I wonder how many will switch as Sony have such a better b-camera pairing line up with the FX3 and A7siii.
@@JonathanPalfrey I think this camera will be really popular with R5C shooters that wanted an FX6 but didn't want to leave Canon, like myself. I know it's next on my list after the 24-105 2.8.
Enough?! This is essentially the flagship C500 mk2 in a smaller package with improved AF, RF-mount, expanded base iso and updated sensor . And it’s significantly cheaper.
c700 is there flagship cinema camera. But I do agree c400 is an amazing camera!
It's not cutting edge tech but it's the most complete package for docu style shooters, for the price I can't really ask for more.
Agreed!
For me this camera is perfect. It fits my needs well and at a price point that is attainable. I loved the C70 but the C400 fills the gaps the rest thought the C70 had. My pre-order is in.
That's awesome! It definitely has a market. Congrats on the pre-order!
It’s a pretty different camera to the c70 not really the same thing. Sharper more digital image, no dgo so less dynamic range, full frame. For me as a wedding filmmaker I think the c70 is still the winner unfortunately :(
@@Kewksdesignwhy the sad face. The c70 will be more cinematic than this. The lower DR is total bummer for $8000. No reason why they upped the price of c70 for just FF and 6k. This shoulda been $6-6,500.
It does way more pro level work vs the c70 though. Sensor aside, pretty much everything else on the cam is almost exactly what I wanted in a c70 mk2 - which is still rumored to be coming out later this year… IDK know, I might jump to this though, I love the c70, but hate when I’m on multi cam shoots and need to match to Sony, BM, or RED. The c400 looks like it’ll fit that need on commercial gigs much easier.
I'm of exactly the same opinion and hit preorder upon seeing the CVP review.
Great break down of the latest and greatest from Canon! I'd love to try this camera out with the 100-500 up here on some wildlife. The triple base ISO was a surprise to me. I hope to see that in other cameras from other manufacturers
Thanks Jake! Yeah, triple base ISO is cool!
This camera looks like the complete package. Honestly, this might have been worth the wait.
You posed the question, "Who is this camera for?" Me. This camera is for me.
How many did you pre-order?
@@Josh_Sattin I have one in the B&H cart. I got someone gonna buy my R5c. I'll also sell one of my C70's to help offset the cost. Except for the 1 CFB slot and no record button on the handle, this is really stellar for my needs. It will work better for my 24-105 2.8 as well. September can't come soon enough.
Congrats man! I know you have been so patient for a new release.
@@scottievee7467 why would you buy the R5c with all the new cameras about to come out? The R5c has poor continuous autofocus and no internal stabilization. These reasons alone would be worth waiting
Great video mate, really detailed.
We've already pre-ordered a pair of C400 bodies for our documentary production company here in the U.K.. My colleague said it best "at this orice with these specs? Thing is an absolute Burano/FX9/FX6 killer."
Im a big fan already, I've been with Canon since the FS7 let us down. We _did_ give the FX9 a whirl but it just wasn't for us.
That said, I do understand the indignation from some regarding Canon cameras, some feel underwhelmed by them. The thing is, they just flat out work, they are intuitive and quick to use (unlike Sony's terrible menus), they're bulletproof in build, I just love them. We've used Canon and the Arri Alexa line, exclusively for some time now. Of course, the Arri prices are, to put it bluntly, eye watering.
Thanks! I do think this is a pretty solid release from Canon that will be a workhorse for a lot of people for a while.
It's just good enough and just cheap enough to keep you from switching camera systems. Canon Marketing, get at me.
I hear you on that!
Hi Josh, this incredible camera has the complete package. Thanks for this update 👍🏻🌴☀️📸🌋☕
Josh you got that 6k sensor! A well thought out Sony fx6ii could easily one up this camera
To me The only disappointments are the lack of DGO sensor and no rec button on the top handle. But considering that the DR is on par to Sony cameras according to CVP I’m ok with this sensor. Triple base ISO is actually a big deal especially for run and gun documentary work or really small productions with quick turnaround. It is well placed regarding what you get for the price. If I decide to invest in a new Camera this is the one and I think for a lot of people better choice compare to Red Komodo as it offers more for one man operation. The only worry to me is since it didn’t get the DGO sensor the rumours about R5mk2 and R1 getting one now feel missed
Great points! Yeah, just gotta wait and see what comes next.
It is necessary to wait for the field tests. C70MarkII won't be Full Frame. So if this ends up having less DR than the C70, Ill be torned between having Full Frame with good DR or S35 with best DR.
@@urielsantistebanfilms according to CVP the difference is only a half a stop. And in return you get triple base ISO. I do love my c70 but I did miss more than few times that it had a second base iso at 3200 at least.
@@TomislavMozeI agree. I’ll wait for the field reviews but I’m almost positive I’ll end up buying this C400 this year.
Thanks as always Josh
You're welcome! Thanks for stopping by and checking out the video!
This is an excellent video Josh and I really appreciate your knowledge and your honesty. What a guy you are man.
Thank you for the kind words!
The metadata solution of the RF mount and the Canon plugin for Unreal will make the C400 the best value camera for Virtual Production.
awesome recap
Thanks Carlos!
Glad I didn’t wait on the rumors for canon to deliver. Very much happy with my KX moving from the c70
I still have hopes for them but man this felt like it should’ve come out in 2022/2023. I would’ve bought this most likely instead of the c70 haha
There’s rumors of a c70-like camera for the fall, will it be more like a fx3 or a supercharged c70?
This camera being at that price point makes me hesitant that this next one will crush. If they made this c400 like the c300 / c500 and at that price point it could lead to a “c90”. But it’s canon and who knows haha
Great video Josh
Thanks Thomas! Yeah, KX was such a good move for you. I am definitely curious to see what the next release or two will be from Canon.
Nice one Josh. I’ve got similar feelings about this camera. It’s a nice overall package but nothing groundbreaking.
It’s great to see some more sensible pricing from Canon, the C300m3 was just too much in today’s world.
It’s very much a FX6 competitor and if I was in the market today I probably would be tempted to get the C400 over the FX6 that said I feel we are probably going to see a bigger step forward from Sony very soon.
I sold my Canon C200 because the separately mounted screen was a pain to assemble / disassemble and transport. The C400's screen is the same and looks tiny.
I'd honestly rather keep my C70... nothing here really excites me, and I suspect the image quality will be no better and possible worse than the C70s DGO sensor at anything other than extreme low light scenarios... and in low light I don't believe dynamic range is that important, so a much cheaper camera that is good in low light (like the R6) might be a more sensible addition.
No IBIS also means I'm waiting to see what Panasonic do with the S2H.
We shoot a lot outdoor in uncontrolled (high contrast) environments during the day in Australia. Extreme heat and humidity and occasionally freezing conditions. Canon C70's and r5c have been rock solid. For us unfortunately a step back in dynamic range would make our jobs a little more difficult. We're often shooting in harsh sunlight, back lighting people with the sun etc. Would I like FF and extra base ISO's, sure. And I think this camera is going to kick ass... but I think we'll be getting more mileage out of our C70's for a while and waiting on a new (hopefully similarly specced and priced camera to the C400) with a DGO (or TGO?) sensor and improved dynamic range on the C70. SIDE NOTE: I really wish manufacturers would stop claiming ridiculous dynamic range (16 stops is a load of c%&p imo). Only Arri seems to be accurate when they claim DR
I loved the video even though I mainly dedicate myself to photography. Great work Josh
Thanks for checking out the video!
Awesome breakdown, Josh! And I am 100% with you - always a touch disappointed with their innovation but ultimately stick with it because of its durability, reliability and beautiful images. Love my C300 MkII in the studio (not great for run ‘n gun without an AC).
Would love a quick video from you outlining what features they could have realistically added (without poaching sales from a future C500/C700) to make this camera cause our jaws to drop.
My first thought? Electronic variable internal ND.
Thanks Matthew! Yeah Im sure there will be more discussion about this camera and future releases. Thanks for watching!
This is a GREAT option for doc work. Zero complaints to be honest. The crop at 120 is a bummer but I never shoot that in documentary. Great dynamic range and AF. And it’s full frame. The real test is seeing how it actually performs versus these quick tests.
I agree Marcus! Such a great camera for doc work. I think the crop in 4K120 is just in raw, but not in the compressed XF formats. It will definitely be interesting when the camera ships and more people can test it.
@@Josh_Sattinyup, that crop is just in raw. You get FF if you shot 120 in other codecs
FX6 had everything except internal RAW 3 years ago for 6000$.
Adjusting for inflation the price makes sense except FX6 didn’t get an increase in price and you can always by used
I've been using MXF even though it provides me with a few headaches. When I try to use MP4 or MP5 the quality is just not as good in my opinion. I'd be very interested to see the new options
Am I crazy for wanting to sell my 1 year old FX9 in order to get a Canon C400? The C400 does everything my FX9 does and more. All this while being smaller, lighter, and way less power hungry.
I think this is a really smart addition to their line up. Love the triple base ISO and really excited for the price point.
Would have been sold if it has a DGO / more DR. I'll wait end of the year to test this camera at rental. 'Cause like you said, appart from colors and texture that is yet to be tested, its just an answer to a 4 years old Sony FX6
Interesting camera with a few disappointments, no 6K XFAVC option so massive files or have to drop down to 4K, single CFE slot so no redundancy for RAW recording, and no DGO sensor. The triple base ISO sensor will probably show up in a C90 around this time next year for $6K. If they do that, it would make a nice A cam for a C70 b cam. Hopefully they at least add 6K XFAVC at a bit rate that could be written to the SD card slot which would suddenly make this camera a lot more interesting.
XF-AVC doesn't support 6K, it's a format created specifically for 4K UHD and 4K DCI, with support for 2K DCI and Full HD to make it more compatible. It is a limitation of the format itself, and as such it has nothing to do with the camera. Canon could extend the format, of course, but if they haven't done it for the 8K of the R5C or the 5.9K of the C500 Mk II, I doubt they would for this one now. You would also have to wait until the various editing applications support it, which doesn't necessarily happens fast enough (like ProRes or BRAW).
@@documentaryinprogress That did cross my mind that maybe it was a codec limitation, still disappointing, nonetheless. It seems like they should be able to offer some kind of middle ground without it being RAW only for 6K. 6K on a 4K timeline would be pretty useful for certain types of projects. They could maybe offer H.265 HEVC which would work with current NLEs.
Still boggling my mind that my R5C has an 8K sensor. It's very exciting and I believe you're a right Josh there is much more to come. I got a few very old EF mount lenses which was the best choice for me because I am totally tapped out on funds. I've got two EF lenses The 16 to 35 2.8 L Mark II and a very old 50 mm 1.4. The internal zoom on this old EF glass is really freaking cool. I can't wait for the future but I've got to start booking some higher paying gigs. Either that or the improved quality of my UA-cam videos will take me where I need to go.
As a general purpose workhorse cine camera it competes well against the current FX6 and FX9, apart from the single CFExpress slot. I wish they hadn’t made that particular compromise. But will it stand out still after the next generation Sonys arrive? I’m not so sure. But as of June 2024, Canon has a product ready to live demo now and ship relatively soon, while Sony remains silent. Overall I think it will sell well. How it relates to the 300 and 500 is a different question. We will have to see how those replacements look in a year or two.
Love ya got a video out on this pronto, nice work Josh and thank you!
I'm a little nervous to see what cripple-hammer aspects will be on this, once all the details are revealed and we see some real-world testing. 🤔
You're welcome. I'd love to get my hands on one to fully test it out, but I don't see that happening. Glad to see Canon releasing a new camera though!
@@Josh_Sattin if you end up with one, you'll be one of the few on YT who actually put together a proper & relevant video review together! fingers-crossed m8!
Oh man... I would love to buy one but it just isn't in the cards for me. I would probably need a hookup at Canon for a loaner, but I don't have one of those.
@@Josh_Sattin I hear ya on the purchase, def substantial! Though I’m not familiar with the cinema version, the CPS service I have for (generally) photog camera loaners is pretty fantastic.
$1000/yr for CPS Cine might be sweet setup for what you do? And never hurts building direct relationship with Canon either.
Some people say the c400 has higher dynamic range over the c70, can someone comfirm whats right?
That's enough, a strange camera! There is no DGO lower dynamic range than the C70, it is impossible to install a viewfinder, one slot for Express Type B, so forget about the copy, why they made 4k 120p in the S35 crop is not clear to me...For that price?
4k 120 isn't cropped, unless you are shooting raw. but damn no dgo does kinda stink
You can't have it all. Like others stated, the 120p crop is just for RAW, also who says you can't install a viewfinder? There are plenty of third party options like Zacuto or Portkeys... And while DGO is great, it always means less low light capability compared to several base ISOs. And since the dynamic range seems to be just a tiny bit worse than the C300III, I think that's a good compromise for being able to shoot in less than ideal lighting situations. I agree on the single CFexpress slot though, that's a bummer for sure.
Generally speaking, I'm not a fan of Canon's industrial design or menu system, especially on their cinema camera range.
But I think credit where credit is due, by acknowledging that the new C400 is one amazing looking camera!
The industrial design is most definitely on point when looking at the C400. Canon got that right on the C70 as well.
So well done to Canon for that. I might even buy one now 😉
Komodo X still remains to be my next A Cam tha I want to purchase. Although this will be a solid camera for documentary or interviews, I’d rather have the Komodo X although I’d love to see what they are doing with the new Codec’s. Great content as usual. Triple base iso is crazy!!
Thanks! KX is such a great camera.
Just imagine all the firmware updates that will surely come along for this camera…
Seems good, but kind of mediocre, and price seems a little high. $6,500 would’ve made it a bit more appealing. I’ll keep using my new R5C … very happy with it.
it'll be like $6799 by xmas hopefully, Canon usually pretty good at dialing down price once the newness wears off.
Nah not by Christmas, u buggin. It’ll take a year to even get a price rebate. They don’t turn around the Cinema EOS bodies like they do mirrorless.
It's a cine camera. They are almost always higher priced than you might think it should be.
I would expect their next higher resolution camera to be in the 12 to 15k range.
I really hope the R5ii (or R5Cii) has triple base iso that would be so nice
That would be a cool feature to see in a lot of cameras. Really interested to see how it performs in people's hands in the real world.
I'm surprised they didn't go full 8k seeing that Canon has the R5C.
Wonder how the R5 mark 2 will be like for video and if they drop a R5C soon after.
Well i now have a new dream camera
I'll admit, I'm a bit disappointed that the camera can't shoot in Open Gate. Especially if I want to use a taller ratio without losing the horizontal field of view. Cameras that are less than half the price are capable of doing this so I was surprised that it wasnt an option.
Apart from that, the camera looks really impressive.
This is the most well rounded camera out there, seems like a upgraded C500 and that camera is used by production companies often, this camera is for cinematographers or production companies that want a camera thar does it all, I can see doc shooting, great for interviews, commercials, professional live events, is def a pro camera not for prosumers or youtube videographers.
Shooting on the bmcc 6k? Looking crispy!!!!
Yup!
I'm wouldn't be surprised if we see this in Olympic coverage. Probably already out in the hands of some of the bigger broadcasters and they probably paid for most of the R&D.
You'll definitely see the R1 out there and the R5 ii.
I'm definitely not going to buy this, but I always watch your content.
I really appreciate you watching and the support!
I've seen like 7-10 videos on the Canon c400 on my feed in a single morning. Has an embargo just been lifted?
yeah they announced it yesterday
Josh, the C400 has a 6K FF Backside Illuminated (BSI) CMOS sensor, but is not a Stacked one (7:58). This two technologies represent two different things. On a Backside Illuminated sensor the photosites are further forward on the die and the line-by-line readout speed is brisker. This is good to reduce overall image noise. On the other hand, Stacked chips improve upon the BSI concept. They place components in a similar arrangement, but the design also stacks the image signal processor and its ultra-fast DRAM memory into the same silicon. This makes readout speeds faster.
By being Backside Illuminated (BSI), the C400 sensor improves in sensitivity. But the sensor is not Stacked (it would have been a much more expensive camera) and that's why it doesn't have a super very fast read out speed (13.27 ms in DCI 17:9). Although it's still much faster than many FF cameras (Burano is 17.65 ms in DCI 17:9 and cost three times more) the C400 seems to control pretty well RS based on a couple of reviews I have seen (CVP and ProAv TV).
From Canon's website:
"6K Full-Frame Back-illuminated stacked CMOS sensor supports Super 35mm and Super 16 modes"
www.usa.canon.com/shop/p/eos-c400
@@Josh_Sattin Ok, good to know that it’s also a stacked sensor. I based my comment on Jake Ratcliffe from CVP when he introduced the sensor on his UA-cam review as a “backside illuminated” one. He didn’t say “backside illuminated and stacked sensor.”
CRAW is the worst RAW codec to deal with. It performs the worst for editing and for some reason it seems really noisy (more so than BRAW) and it is quite bloated. This does kill off the Sony Burano though.
The more noise a raw codec has, the more "real" the raw actually is. BRAW has less noise than prores raw in the same cameras that do both because BRAW is more processed. Blackmagic literally had to back in the day to avoid legal issues with cinema DNG, which also was noisier than BRAW because it was more of a real raw format. Basically CRAW is sharper and noiser, all things being equal, making it up to you on how much to reduce noise. Someone did a test of prores raw w/ noise reduction, and it looks better than BRAW by that point. But yeah...always is more work the more authentic the raw gets.
ProRes raw is the worst codec to deal with.
Craw has the most non-destructive editing options in resolve as opposed to red raw, braw, and even arri raw.
If it had IBIS and 32-bit float onboard mics it'd be perfect but it's definitely good enough for the price. It should force a Burano price drop.
That would be cool for sure!
It won't... Burano's seen as Venice little brother. Same people won't buy this. People looking at Burano would go for Raptor or C500 level.
@@ItsBerg Burano isnt seen as Venice's little brother by anyone outside of Sony marketing itself lol. Its seen as a rehoused A1...because it is. Every forum Ive seen speaks on how the image clearly looks "digital" and not similar to a Venice. Hard to convince people in an era where DR tests are publicly available and underwhelming. But I do agree that was their intent. Imo, price drops because the intent missed.
@@CanditoTrainingHQ fair about IQ, but the body, codecs, ports.. are the things you’re paying for. Now do I think it’s seriously overpriced?? ABSOLUTELY. Shoulda been $12k maxxxx. As much as we’re on forums, owners of Venice or people using it for A cam will reach for Burano before fx9, a1, etc.. which is my point. It’s absolutely overpriced for what u get and they had the chance to really dominate the 8-15k market.
So far I haven’t seen any footage out of it that makes me go “ ooo that’s what i
want to spend my 10k on” (with the necessary accessories) if it was DGO and had a ND like Sony FX6 I’d drop 10k on the body. Footage looks pretty average and kinda video. Not as cinema feeling as I expected for a full frame but it’s still very new and perhaps some firmware magic will spice it up at some point.
Yeah very Canon Baked in look. Same goes for C300 for years when used with Canon glass and canon lut. That's their look, a video look. I'm really intrigued to see what it looks like with different lens and some grading. Same as you, no DGO, not a look that makes me feel like "oh yeah that's this one !" but the specs on paper are cool ! Time will tell.
When I got the R5C I thought it was pretty bizarre that in photo mode you can track everything but in cinema mode you can track eyes and faces
Yeah, the Cinema OS has different autofocus.
The Canon colours are devine.
If this sensor was dropped into a C70 ii body, with a small price increase. Canon would have sold heaps of them!
Oof, really? I think the C70 form factor is terrible for rigging. And even if you don't want to rig it up at all, I don't understand why they decided for that photography camera shape but then didn't include an EVF. I love the new boxy shape of the C400.
This guy seems cool wish he would start to farm or something
Merci beaucoup pour cette vidéo mais je suis très déçu de canon car je pensais voir un capteur full frame DGO donc je pense que cette caméra va faire comme la C 300 et C500 perdre très vite sa valeur elle est trop chère et personnellement je pense que les gens qui veulent une caméra rentable aussi bien prix et longévité se dirigeront vers une RED VRAPTOR X🎥
Cordialement
Jmarc😎
Thought that 3.5" screen is hilarious.
Agreed! We need better screens from all of the manufacturers.
@@Josh_Sattin Are they aware that even the cheapest smart phone rivals their screens. But it what you said its for Canon users who have been waiting forever for them to release a cinema camera that takes RF glass.
Dude a 4.5-5 inch would have crushed it.
Seems like this camera was made only to slap the 24-105 f2.8 RF and just go
That does seem like a really solid combo!
I thought the demo film looked lackluster. Footage was very dark and well, Canon looking. ProAV had some footage in their video that looked great, so it at just must have been the grade on the Canon demo film just looked basic to me, like a normal picture profile from 10 years ago. Nothing about this camera makes me want to give up my FX6 any time soon, but hey, I still shoot mostly in 1080 anyway!
4k120 is not downsampled from 6k.. what a shame. That and why give us people & animal, but not airplane, insects, etc.
The launch Film didn’t really do the c400 justice, in my opinion. Story, lens choice, editing, wasn’t a fan.
Not many people remember that the C500 mark 1 was the Low Light king of the high end cinema world, so I’m excited to see the low light footage from the c400. It might make a dent in the high end market for low light. Who knows.
Yeah the triple base ISO is cool and I look forward to seeing what it can do.
The brits over on CVP tested it up against the FX6 at 12800 iso and they claimed it was quite similar performance, hard to see on the footage through UA-cam compression to be able to confirm their thoughts or not though. They already ran the camera through all their standard tests for their video they released earlier today.
@@Fedorevsky I watched and missed that part lol (editing late) but I did see ProAVTV’s test, and they compared it to the fx6.
The c400 really blew me away. I’m a sucker for Canon’s colors, DR, and filmgrain-like noise. Gotta rent it out come September.
Not gonna lie. If I could time travel back to when I bought my first full frame digital camera, I would have chosen Sony.
I love canon for stills, but the lack of third-party lenses, micro hdmi, mixed media is tough.
Again, if you’re a working stills photographer, I think you have a compelling lineup of lens and bodies, but I think the value proposition is weakened for hybrid or videographers.
If I sold all my canon glass and r6mkI, I’d probably be able to slide into an S5IIX with money leftover.
Rather get a Komodo
Why not, I mean nothing loses it's value quicker than a RED, any RED.
The Cinema OS is terrible. Sad to see it hasn't received a complete overhaul by now.
You can use a GoPro 12 or a c400. I doubt anyone will know the difference. Show us your real work