I don't really like Herman. I kinda think he is a big creep. But I find him to be an interesting character for the show, someone who exists in a space where no one else belongs. He isn't like Dr. Marvin Monroe, where he just falls off the face of the earth completely. But he isn't like Mr. Largo, who is used very very sparingly, but still pops up from time to time. Herman is like this relic character that the writers decided they didn't want to use, but still refuse to discard him completely. He kinda hangs around in the background, as this reminder to the early days. He's a character everyone knows, but have participated in such a tiny percentage of episodes. ...And I kinda prefer him this way. Please, no Herman-centric episode in Season 30, I'm not asking for that. :p
Something similar happens in South Park, there are characters that had some relevance in the first seasons and today, or they are dead or they make cameos in the background.
TheRealJims Please please please do an episode about snake! He's great plus he served time with Bob! and he has a cool origin story in that not so great episode where he was an archaeologist ooo and he stole Mr burns's girlfriend! Cool guy
It's funny you mention South Park, because Herman does kinda feel like a character who would be on that show. He's a little too dark and weird for The Simpsons, but he would probably work better on South Park.
Herman's runnng joke was continued in the comics. One of the jokes was that he lost his arm because he used to be a comicbook artist and draw way too much.
Come to think of it, Herman does kind of look like one of those weird "obviously not Matt Groening" Matt Groening cameos early Simpsons would sometimes have.
He kind of got split up through multiple characters. Moe, Cleetus, Doctor Frink, uh… Krusty? I dunno, I don’t really watch the Simpsons, nor have I ever been that big of a fan, but as a base level comparison, that’s who I’d put under his umbrella.
I actually really liked Herman because of his seriousness, Snake, Moe, and Sideshow Bob are 'threatening,' but at the end of the day they still joke around, Herman, Herman will just shoot you, no laugh track. I agree with you that this makes him not fit into the dynamic of the show, but its still interesting.
Herman would be good as the Simpsons "big bad". I actually like that his a more serious and sinister character to me that makes him a very unique character compared to the other villains even if he has a lot traits and aspects other characters have.
I kind of wish they made him more like a general version of Sideshow Bob, except not a guy planning to murder someone but those conspirators that could have been a foil to the more world weary lisa like Sideshow is to Bart.
Thats the thing though. When you introduce one serious character into a world of comedy it kills the joke. He can't be a straight man cause he is too unstable, he can't be a serious villain becuase he doesn't go big enough. He is just a common thug (my opinion). He is full of paranoia and just doesn't like people. If there is any redeeming quality to him he will loose it at the end of the episode becuase he doesn't get attached to anyone. This doesn't make him a good villain, it makes him a background character, a thug type character. If the show used him more often to fill villainous roles then the show would have to change to suit him, the show would have to become serious. TL;DR: I could see him being a villain on CSI Miami, but never a villain on The Simpsons.
When I was a kid, my grandpa had a buddy (Vietnam vet) who ran a small military collectibles shop that I used to go with him to (my grandfather was a WW2 vet) and this guy was basically a two-armed version of Herman. He actually was a great guy, gave me lots of books about history and old military items to play war with, and the shop kind of became a hangout for local vets. It was fun to sit around and hear all the old guys share stories while they smoked cigars and make comments about this and that at the random piece of field gear or helmet that came in for sale or trade. But much like Herman- there were moments where even as a 10-12 year old you sat and went "oooooooohhh-kaaayyy..." and there was a rifle or grenade or two hidden around that shop that may have not been copacetic with the state and may have been of "mysterious" origins. I actually miss that place and times. My grandfather is gone, as is the shop owner now...sad.
because that is the shady thing those old stores did the legal stuff was just a front to sell the expensive illegal stuff out the back like the episode where apu sold fireworks out the back of his store
I always wondered and seemed strange to me that almost every character in the show is re used in the background or something if not poorly draw, only the the sitter thief and the guy Homer hired and later got kissed by him when he ascended in the powerplant by having hair with minoxidil seem to not appear again
I'd also argue Fat Tony also kinda steals the "shady dealings" character. Why have some random character running illegal wears when you can use Tony, who is a part of organized crime and can be used to parody the mafia?
Okay, Fat Tony and crew ARE parodies of the mob, but my point still stands; why use some random one armed guy running criminal syndicates when you already have a criminal syndicate?
Nice one, completely forgot about Fat Tony. I feel like he would probably be the villain of The Springfield Connection (maybe merge the two characters) if they did the episode today.
sideshow bob played by a famous actor...fat toney played by a famous actor..moe played by hank...the you got harry shearer doing a bush parody of a war vet in herman who isn't even as entertaining or shady hate filled petty as snake bob moe or burns....and in terms of shop owners apu mo and comic book guy have him beat so yeah.. what point does he have then?..every idea possible with him can be written better with the other characters
honestly I feel the best ways to use Herman is by playing on his darker nature, either by having him be a more serious antagonist comparedd to most villains in the simpsons, or just by being a rather dark and unsettling straight man to the usual antics. He could also act as a middleman between criminal characters, you know, a sort of 'set up' character. One could also play on his shadiness more to make him more of a habitual liar or play up his inhinged side for darkhumour. and of course, arm jokes.
I do agree with you on him being a straight man some of the antagonist. I think he could work with sideshow bob, snake or hell make him a weapons dealer with fat tony and his mafia
I think the tone of his character is why he works so well... he’s genuinely threatening, which in a series that uses dark comedy so well is a really interesting character to write with. It’s nice to have the elusive creep to balance all of the comedy villains.
Totally agree. Herman carries a more threatening vibe than any of the other villainous characters (Burns, Fat Tony, Snake). He's not silly. I liked his use in 22 Short Stories because it showed he had a level of menace beyond Chief Wiggum's and Snake's capacity to handle. It's hard to imagine Herman being genuinely intimidated by another regular-occurring character in the Simpsons universe.
I think you overlooked something. The later episode shows Herman getting his arm ripped off while trying to hitchhike to piano class. A pianist losing his arm and thus losing the amibility to do something he loves is potentially enough to drive him insane.
Watching this 5 years later I had the same kind of thought. Man got his arm cut off by an accident where the state is at fault, but gets no compensation, loses access to his real passion. Makes perfect sense he ends up a shady, anti-gov prepper type.
Herman just seems deeply disturbed and I kinda like his role. All the other crazy/villain characters joke around and are more comedic but he seems like a real and dark interpretation of someone deeply deranged. After Frank Grimes he may be the most tragic character in the show. Just a random man who lost his arm and his sanity in a more shockingly dark way than any other character
In addition: Fat Tony. Fat Tony basically has all the shadiness you need, can get away with being a serious villain when necessary, plus is overtly mob. When you have Fat Tony, Herman just seems too vague to be a useful criminal character. But I think it mostly comes down to characterization. Plenty of Simpsons characters are unhinged, especially Moe and Mr. Burns and ESPECIALLY Sideshow Bob, but Herman never came across as the FUN kind of unhinged. He doesn't have a soft side, he doesn't have personal goals, and his personality is constantly stand-offish--given how they presented him there was no way to make him affable. The only way I would see to rescue his character would basically be to change his character. He'd need to be given something or someone to care about, or at the very least be given some kind of situation that's in total contrast to his personality (like you constantly see with Snake). Basically, they took his premise as Shady Arms Dealer way too seriously. So my changes: Arms dealer to pawn shop owner. Pawn shop is much more narratively useful, can still involve weaponry, and is similarly shady. Some of his goods might be outright fenced. If he's going to be ambiguously ex-military, play it up. Not just with his arm, make his entire past multiple choice. Constantly referencing things he may or may not really have been a part of, occasionally obvious fabrications. Basically you get yourself a habitual liar who ends up getting away with it because he is useful. His utility should be his positive trait. He has a plethora of skills and tools (some imaginary, but he'll often claim he has the skills) that he's willing to aid with for a price or for favors. It ends up being how he keeps out of jail, because he's frustratingly more competent than the police (or at least more devious). And you could give him additional traits that contrast with his main demeanor. Like being unusually friendly with children when he's intimidating to adults and his business should exclude children anyway. In hindsight this was kinda obvious how to improve the character, but I wonder if part of the issue was that he was introduced in season 1, the season where they were trying hard to be grounded like a real sitcom, rather than look for the long term utility of characters in comedy.
I love that idea! Herman Hermann could have some use. Even a bit of a rivalry would help Moe smuggles endagered animals Herman could be an animal lover Make him Vegan just as an oddity. As a gun nut, if they ask "do you hunt?", he could say something like "Only the most dangerous prey." I do think that they should keep it iffy on his military service, maybe he was black ops, maybe he is one of those test subjects, maybe he got kicked out of boot camp after a week... maybe he was a government agent and went rogue? So many options to keep it interesting with stories and jokes.
"Like being unusually friendly with children when he's intimidating to adults..." Did you get some of that idea from "Falling Down" (1993) which Michael Douglas starred in as "D-Fens?" His character never did hate kids, he was just angry with adults who wronged him in one way or another.
@@101Volts Haha, not that specifically, just something along those lines. The character would still clearly need some edge in order to be viable for social commentary, it's just that "being an arms dealer" is already near maximally edgy, so I figured "friendly to children" might make him more open to interacting with Bart, and also provide comedic contrast with the Arms Dealer motif. But in general after writing the original comment I've started to think "Herman didn't really have any friends" as his main problem. Moe was always kinda dark, especially early in the show, but it was softened because he was friends with Barney and Homer and that was generally enough to ensure he wasn't a total drag on the comedy
I like Herman and his shady nature. He's like the evil villain that always has his plans spoiled. I'm more surprised that Gill seemed to have made so many more appearances.
I disagree. Herman always struck me as the kind of far-right conspiracy theorist doomsday prepper type. There's and endless trove of jokes and side stories in that. Plus I know a ton of people like that, so it made Springfield that much more relatable.
@BeTheDeathOfMe Truem but character purposes have always been shifting over the course of the show. it could be a much more relevant direction to take him
@BeTheDeathOfMe True that they didn't have the prepper climate but the survivalist climate was booming, particularly in media. He definitely always struck me as an armchair general, someone who worships the military lifestyle but never served himself. Everything about him just screams poseur to me.
It's true. But tbh the show was run by Fox and there main fanbase is made up of conspiracy nuts. So making a character to mock the major fanbase is not a good idea.
I remember reading a Simpsons comic book (can't remember the issue, but I think it was #100) where Herman explains that he lost his arm because he wore it down from drawing so much. Now that I think about it, it would be interesting to talk about Simpson comics since few seem to remember them as well as the show.
I think Herman's whole insanity could be played well. I think he's generally the reason why Bart the General works, as having this insane military nut plot a strategic course to throw water balloons at a bully is genuinely funny and makes the episode much better. He is relatively serious most of the time, but I think he could work in being completely loony in situations that're otherwise pretty tame. I mean it's like Batman, you put this big gruff man in a mundane situation like watering plants and it's so absurd that the contrast kinda writes itself. Then again, considering how tied to his military antique shop he is, it makes sense why he really fell off.
I've always pictured him to be an essential archetype of american society, extremist beliefs, gun fanatic, traumatized veteran and conspiracy theorist just as much as the plot or joke needs it. Maybe as a loner, more urban equivalent to Clethus.
When I was a kid I had Herman (or as I called him back then, "one armed gun store owner") as the favorite to shoot Mr. Burns. He hadn't been used very much, he was obviously unhinged, and he just came off as the sort that would do something murderous. The other criminals in the show at that point didn't have that seriousness and Homer/Smithers always felt like red herrings (I mean who would want lovable Homer to turn out to be a killer?). I always liked old Hermy, his contrast in tone actually made him interesting I thought. Personally I think it may have been a blessing in disguise for the writers that they stopped using him because he could very easily have been the staple Neo Nazi of the show that current culture today would freak out over worse than Apu.
It's interesting what can dub do to a character. I remember in czech version, when he sees Bart, he greets him by saying "Sieg Heil, mein junge!" which is literally a nazi greeting; mein junge means "my boy". And when Bart asks him how he lost his arm, he says he lost it while doing nazi salute from a bus, which makes Bart look of discomfort very obvious. I always assumed he was in Hitlerjugend, and after war, he fled to USA to start new life, but not really forgetting about it. It's not really something that is played with alot in Czech version, and obviously various dubs put jokes that make sense in their language or culture, but it definitely makes you see him much worse than he is, especially with all things that were said in video.
May I just say there is a brief possible reference you could have gone to... In Marge on the Lam, Homer got his arm stuck in a vending machine Carl said "I heard someone lost an arm in there" and you see an arm ripped off and stripped to the bone. Now it's not specifically mentioned to be his arm but it's still a possible link.
I think the fact that he appears so sparingly is the thing that makes Herman interesting. He pops up and you think "Oh look, it's Herman, haven't seen him in a while." Then he disappears again and you forget about him until the next time.
I've always liked Herman as a character personally. Not entirely sure why. I feel like what they could've done from the start is make his store less specific and do the military and weapons stuff in the back, given he's already a shady dude. Something like a Pawn Shop as a front would make him able to be used in a lot more scenarios. As-is, I'd imagine he will, rarely, get speaking roles in the future, but only if they need his specific style of character.
Jackson DeStefano I do find it weird when people bring up that connection as some kind of "gotcha" to the idea that Pixar is original. Like they've never claimed they were the first to come up with ideas like "toys come to life" or "anthropomorphising you mind's traits"
Jackson DeStefano I got what you mean there, and I meant my comment to be talking about the broader discourse, you excluded. Sorry for not communicating that
My mother was an ER nurse and treated a child who lost his arm hanging it out a school bus window. So it can happen. And having an ER nurse as a mother, my brother and I had a weird list of things we couldn’t enjoy because they caused injuries in other kids, like we couldn’t eat Pringles out of those cans in the 80s, we had to put them in a bowl. We also weren’t allowed to chew gum or have those snap bracelets or play lawn darts. Oddly enough, my brother and I both played dangerous sports (he played football and I took riding lessons) and she never made us wear helmets when riding a bike
I didn't know the...uh...subtext behind Herman's scene in 22 Short Films until recently which, i admit, makes things a little more uncomfortable. However, he says something along the lines of "When Zed arrives the party will begin" Zed being the character he's representing on this Pulp Fiction parody. You could use this line to claim Herman was not going to...to do that, but he still tied them up.
When I first saw him in 22 Short Films about Springfield I thought he was a 1-time character who just happened to share a voice actor with Ned Flanders because he was available
Yes, but the point is that said reference makes for an uncomfortable thaught on the character when you make the correlation with the original scene in Pulp Fiction.
I know I’m late to the party but I’d also like to add that the Simpson’s no longer uses characters who smoke or uses guns. Idk why.... but can you honestly remember the last time a Simpson’s character pulled a gun on someone? Or it could be the fact that they don’t want to show old military people in a negative light. 🤷🏾♀️
I wish he was used in the Raging Abe Simpson episode as it would make sense if Grandpa went to his store to buy weapons to defend himself against Mr Burns
I think his role in the show was precisely to be the guy who is actually supposed to make you uncomfortable, so yeah that the kind of thing works in more crude shows like Fam Guy and South Park but not so much in the Simpsons, I still think he had potential for more minor appearances tho, Im glad they included him in the crazy survivalist club
This was absolutely gorgeous! Can this be a new series? Where you analyze why some characters were put into background or killed off, while others risen to light or were newly created?
Herman struck me as survivalist/militia movement type, which you saw all over the place in the 80s and early 90s. Probably has the entire back catalogue of Soldier of Fortune and Paladin Press in his basement next to the illegal machine gun parts. One of those sorts of people who were never actually in the military but sorround themselves with military paraphenalia.
It took me quite a bit to stumble across this channel, but here is something that I hope to be the first one. Hermann is actually a frequent German surname and is written with two n as in Mann wich is german for man .
Interestingly enough the story about his arm was changed in the German dub. Over he said he lost it because he pushed a box of apples into a straw cutter and went too far in. Not entirely sure why you'd put a box of apples into a straw cutter but there you go.
Another character who needs some backstory is Wiseguy\Raphael. The one with the grey hair side parted. You can see him quite a lot, like in the one where Sideshow Bob briefly turns good. With the "Boy Bomb" in it.
It does seem odd when you think of the episode when homer buys a gun you'd think it would have been a good time to give Herman a quick cameo but I'm not American so I don't know the deal with buying a weapon
I would love to see more of Herman though it would make the show more varied. Like make it a little more real. So it would make it more lifelike like it used to be
This series got me interested in watching the Simpsons again - and lo and behold, in season 35, Herman shows up kind of a lot in the background, and gets a *whole line* in it! Herman's back
I really feel there are a decent amount of uses for Herman in the show. His appearances in Chief of Hearts, Penny-Wiseguys and The Old Blue Mayor She Ain't What She Used to Be, were perfect times for him to have some sort of dialogue because he was relevant to the situations he was placed in for those episodes. It would be cool to have another episode about him.
The only jokes i can think of for him would be related to his arms. Either he gets a replacement that keeps coming off during normal scenes following the simpsons or he'll be close to losing his other arm. That's the only thing i can think of to keep him as a returning joke. Kind of like spongebob's "my leg!!!" Character. Could also give a reason to why he always seems shady and is into weapons. He doesn't trust people. He feels the world is trying to kill him. That's just my random thoughts. It could have worked but I don't think they wanted it to work anyway. His design is way more creepy than the other characters. I don't think they'll want such a oddball out being shown often cause already he's missing a arm so he stands out, with his face often having some crazy eyes and a cigarette I don't think his design helped him be reused either
@@BigRed3000 No idea, personally. I've never heard of it being a bad thing, but I'm not a yank so it's just me. But even if it is, again, I think there's nothing wrong with it, Herman isn't real. He's a cell sheet played by a voice actor.
When the show came out I believe it was heavily implied that Herman was a Vietnam vet. 30 years later it's harder to make that same sell. Hence probably why he stopped being used.
He kinda reminds me of the babysitter bandit I don’t know why also speaking of t the babysitter bandit in the episode where Flanders house breaks and he goes to a mental hospital you can see the babysitter bandit in the stall next to him
Herman was a Vietnam war vet type character like Lt Dan from Forrest Gump. That was a common and well known archetype in the early 90's but it's not really relevant in the zombie simpsons era.
Herman is one of my favorite characters just cause jokes about him are funny. I think his story is most likely that he went to war and got really shaken up by it. Gave him the loose screws he has, and came back.
Okay, this video has been up for three years but I thought I should mention that in the German version he says that he lost his arm because "If you push a crate into a wood chipper, you should always know how far you can go" which is super dark, if you ask me.
Herman's job being done better by other characters reminded me of Pokemon of all things. There's hundreds, so naturally, some end up filling the role of others better, with generalists getting the short end of the stick most of the time.
At 1:56 on one episode hermans arm we sore got chopped by abe Simpson when they were driving away from the dog catcher trying to get little homers old dog called bongo so they drove and Herman put his arm up with his thumb up to get a ride but they sliced this arm so he opened a gun shop so what is the true thing behind it we will never know?!.
Herman is the balance on the opposite bowl of scales. He is the opposition to all that foolishness of the main characters. And you’re more likely to meet folks like him in real life more often than goofy Homers.
you say that the plot rarely demands herman, but in the episode where homer buys a gun, it's raphael behind the counter when herman could easily have been used
I find Herman to be a memorable character. I saw the the preview image for this video, and I was like, "oh yeah, that guy." I found him amusing for while I watched the show... which I stopped watching around season 13 or so.
I would love to see him more in the newer seasons again would love to have him again in villain roles he could easily be a villain in an episode in which he is the enemy to Fat Tony or something i think that guy has potential
Can you talk about Ned's "Flanderization?" I've heard it talked of as character rot, but I disagree. Flanders seems to fall hard into his Christian beliefs, giving up his "normal" traits slowly after his wife is killed by his neighbor.
I don't really like Herman. I kinda think he is a big creep. But I find him to be an interesting character for the show, someone who exists in a space where no one else belongs. He isn't like Dr. Marvin Monroe, where he just falls off the face of the earth completely. But he isn't like Mr. Largo, who is used very very sparingly, but still pops up from time to time. Herman is like this relic character that the writers decided they didn't want to use, but still refuse to discard him completely. He kinda hangs around in the background, as this reminder to the early days. He's a character everyone knows, but have participated in such a tiny percentage of episodes.
...And I kinda prefer him this way. Please, no Herman-centric episode in Season 30, I'm not asking for that. :p
Something similar happens in South Park, there are characters that had some relevance in the first seasons and today, or they are dead or they make cameos in the background.
why don't you make a video on marvin monroe?
TheRealJims Please please please do an episode about snake! He's great plus he served time with Bob! and he has a cool origin story in that not so great episode where he was an archaeologist ooo and he stole Mr burns's girlfriend! Cool guy
TheRealJims please do more Homer centric mysteries!
It's funny you mention South Park, because Herman does kinda feel like a character who would be on that show. He's a little too dark and weird for The Simpsons, but he would probably work better on South Park.
Herman's runnng joke was continued in the comics. One of the jokes was that he lost his arm because he used to be a comicbook artist and draw way too much.
the comic always continued small ideas from the show. Even Otto's Busman gets a strip.
i remember that
Come to think of it, Herman does kind of look like one of those weird "obviously not Matt Groening" Matt Groening cameos early Simpsons would sometimes have.
Seeing that kind of reminds me of Dr. S from the spirograph factory in Radioactive Man.
And they replaced Herman's role with...oh, let's say...Moe.
Good then. I love moe
@BocoCorwin
Moe I think he meant by "harmless political action"!
He kind of got split up through multiple characters. Moe, Cleetus, Doctor Frink, uh… Krusty? I dunno, I don’t really watch the Simpsons, nor have I ever been that big of a fan, but as a base level comparison, that’s who I’d put under his umbrella.
Why are you watching this video then@@DCBiscuit
@@VEE0034
A man isn’t allowed to get interested in things?
I actually really liked Herman because of his seriousness, Snake, Moe, and Sideshow Bob are 'threatening,' but at the end of the day they still joke around, Herman, Herman will just shoot you, no laugh track.
I agree with you that this makes him not fit into the dynamic of the show, but its still interesting.
Herman would be good as the Simpsons "big bad". I actually like that his a more serious and sinister character to me that makes him a very unique character compared to the other villains even if he has a lot traits and aspects other characters have.
I kind of wish they made him more like a general version of Sideshow Bob, except not a guy planning to murder someone but those conspirators that could have been a foil to the more world weary lisa like Sideshow is to Bart.
Thats the thing though. When you introduce one serious character into a world of comedy it kills the joke. He can't be a straight man cause he is too unstable, he can't be a serious villain becuase he doesn't go big enough. He is just a common thug (my opinion). He is full of paranoia and just doesn't like people. If there is any redeeming quality to him he will loose it at the end of the episode becuase he doesn't get attached to anyone. This doesn't make him a good villain, it makes him a background character, a thug type character. If the show used him more often to fill villainous roles then the show would have to change to suit him, the show would have to become serious.
TL;DR: I could see him being a villain on CSI Miami, but never a villain on The Simpsons.
@@hobossuck2 so you want The Simpsons to become CSI Miami? Yeah, no thanks.
I like Herman, it's refreshing to have that serious guy sometimes. Makes it funnier
When I was a kid, my grandpa had a buddy (Vietnam vet) who ran a small military collectibles shop that I used to go with him to (my grandfather was a WW2 vet) and this guy was basically a two-armed version of Herman. He actually was a great guy, gave me lots of books about history and old military items to play war with, and the shop kind of became a hangout for local vets. It was fun to sit around and hear all the old guys share stories while they smoked cigars and make comments about this and that at the random piece of field gear or helmet that came in for sale or trade. But much like Herman- there were moments where even as a 10-12 year old you sat and went "oooooooohhh-kaaayyy..." and there was a rifle or grenade or two hidden around that shop that may have not been copacetic with the state and may have been of "mysterious" origins. I actually miss that place and times. My grandfather is gone, as is the shop owner now...sad.
You must carry his legacy for the next generations.
@@seronymus by selling illegal or stolen from other Countries weapons
because that is the shady thing those old stores did the legal stuff was just a front to sell the expensive illegal stuff out the back like the episode where apu sold fireworks out the back of his store
@@basillah7650 yes.
Can't even use him as a villain either because of Sideshow Bob, probably the same reason they never brought the babysitter bandit back.
Ah Mr Bundy a man of taste I see
I always wondered and seemed strange to me that almost every character in the show is re used in the background or something if not poorly draw, only the the sitter thief and the guy Homer hired and later got kissed by him when he ascended in the powerplant by having hair with minoxidil seem to not appear again
Astute observation - never even thought about the Babysitter Bandit
If they used both they wouldn’t have burned through the content people liked so fast.
ello you
I'd also argue Fat Tony also kinda steals the "shady dealings" character. Why have some random character running illegal wears when you can use Tony, who is a part of organized crime and can be used to parody the mafia?
Used to?
Okay, Fat Tony and crew ARE parodies of the mob, but my point still stands; why use some random one armed guy running criminal syndicates when you already have a criminal syndicate?
Fat Tony should appear more often
Nice one, completely forgot about Fat Tony. I feel like he would probably be the villain of The Springfield Connection (maybe merge the two characters) if they did the episode today.
sideshow bob played by a famous actor...fat toney played by a famous actor..moe played by hank...the you got harry shearer doing a bush parody of a war vet in herman who isn't even as entertaining or shady hate filled petty as snake bob moe or burns....and in terms of shop owners apu mo and comic book guy have him beat so yeah.. what point does he have then?..every idea possible with him can be written better with the other characters
honestly I feel the best ways to use Herman is by playing on his darker nature, either by having him be a more serious antagonist comparedd to most villains in the simpsons, or just by being a rather dark and unsettling straight man to the usual antics.
He could also act as a middleman between criminal characters, you know, a sort of 'set up' character.
One could also play on his shadiness more to make him more of a habitual liar or play up his inhinged side for darkhumour. and of course, arm jokes.
I do agree with you on him being a straight man some of the antagonist. I think he could work with sideshow bob, snake or hell make him a weapons dealer with fat tony and his mafia
I think the tone of his character is why he works so well... he’s genuinely threatening, which in a series that uses dark comedy so well is a really interesting character to write with. It’s nice to have the elusive creep to balance all of the comedy villains.
Totally agree. Herman carries a more threatening vibe than any of the other villainous characters (Burns, Fat Tony, Snake). He's not silly. I liked his use in 22 Short Stories because it showed he had a level of menace beyond Chief Wiggum's and Snake's capacity to handle. It's hard to imagine Herman being genuinely intimidated by another regular-occurring character in the Simpsons universe.
I think you overlooked something. The later episode shows Herman getting his arm ripped off while trying to hitchhike to piano class.
A pianist losing his arm and thus losing the amibility to do something he loves is potentially enough to drive him insane.
Interesting idea...
Watching this 5 years later I had the same kind of thought. Man got his arm cut off by an accident where the state is at fault, but gets no compensation, loses access to his real passion.
Makes perfect sense he ends up a shady, anti-gov prepper type.
Herman just seems deeply disturbed and I kinda like his role. All the other crazy/villain characters joke around and are more comedic but he seems like a real and dark interpretation of someone deeply deranged. After Frank Grimes he may be the most tragic character in the show. Just a random man who lost his arm and his sanity in a more shockingly dark way than any other character
In addition: Fat Tony. Fat Tony basically has all the shadiness you need, can get away with being a serious villain when necessary, plus is overtly mob. When you have Fat Tony, Herman just seems too vague to be a useful criminal character.
But I think it mostly comes down to characterization. Plenty of Simpsons characters are unhinged, especially Moe and Mr. Burns and ESPECIALLY Sideshow Bob, but Herman never came across as the FUN kind of unhinged. He doesn't have a soft side, he doesn't have personal goals, and his personality is constantly stand-offish--given how they presented him there was no way to make him affable.
The only way I would see to rescue his character would basically be to change his character. He'd need to be given something or someone to care about, or at the very least be given some kind of situation that's in total contrast to his personality (like you constantly see with Snake). Basically, they took his premise as Shady Arms Dealer way too seriously.
So my changes:
Arms dealer to pawn shop owner. Pawn shop is much more narratively useful, can still involve weaponry, and is similarly shady. Some of his goods might be outright fenced.
If he's going to be ambiguously ex-military, play it up. Not just with his arm, make his entire past multiple choice. Constantly referencing things he may or may not really have been a part of, occasionally obvious fabrications. Basically you get yourself a habitual liar who ends up getting away with it because he is useful.
His utility should be his positive trait. He has a plethora of skills and tools (some imaginary, but he'll often claim he has the skills) that he's willing to aid with for a price or for favors. It ends up being how he keeps out of jail, because he's frustratingly more competent than the police (or at least more devious).
And you could give him additional traits that contrast with his main demeanor. Like being unusually friendly with children when he's intimidating to adults and his business should exclude children anyway.
In hindsight this was kinda obvious how to improve the character, but I wonder if part of the issue was that he was introduced in season 1, the season where they were trying hard to be grounded like a real sitcom, rather than look for the long term utility of characters in comedy.
rickpgriffin I think Herman would work if they used him like a version of Dale Gribble in King of the Hill.
I love that idea! Herman Hermann could have some use.
Even a bit of a rivalry would help
Moe smuggles endagered animals
Herman could be an animal lover
Make him Vegan just as an oddity.
As a gun nut, if they ask "do you hunt?", he could say something like "Only the most dangerous prey."
I do think that they should keep it iffy on his military service, maybe he was black ops, maybe he is one of those test subjects, maybe he got kicked out of boot camp after a week... maybe he was a government agent and went rogue? So many options to keep it interesting with stories and jokes.
"Like being unusually friendly with children when he's intimidating to adults..."
Did you get some of that idea from "Falling Down" (1993) which Michael Douglas starred in as "D-Fens?" His character never did hate kids, he was just angry with adults who wronged him in one way or another.
@@101Volts Haha, not that specifically, just something along those lines. The character would still clearly need some edge in order to be viable for social commentary, it's just that "being an arms dealer" is already near maximally edgy, so I figured "friendly to children" might make him more open to interacting with Bart, and also provide comedic contrast with the Arms Dealer motif. But in general after writing the original comment I've started to think "Herman didn't really have any friends" as his main problem. Moe was always kinda dark, especially early in the show, but it was softened because he was friends with Barney and Homer and that was generally enough to ensure he wasn't a total drag on the comedy
@@richardorta8960 You know, he is an insectivoran, so there is an decent chance that he is an animal lover.
Am I the only one who loves Herman and wished he got more time? He's cool, mysterious and nostalgic.
Definitely with you
Of all places to find a soyteen
WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE ON A SOYSONS VIDEO@@merucrypoison296
I like Herman and his shady nature. He's like the evil villain that always has his plans spoiled. I'm more surprised that Gill seemed to have made so many more appearances.
Gil Gundersen
Kent Brockman's former co-anchor Scott Christian hasn't been seen or heard since season 5 either.
waterfieldV and Arnie pie in the sky
Arnie Pye is still around actually. Just watch Trust But Clarify and he's in it.
And Arnie Pye started out as Bill Pye in 7G01
Arnie was also named Ernie in at least one episode
Soko the shows writers said that name is a play on "Ernie Pyle", a famous news reporter.
I disagree. Herman always struck me as the kind of far-right conspiracy theorist doomsday prepper type. There's and endless trove of jokes and side stories in that. Plus I know a ton of people like that, so it made Springfield that much more relatable.
That’s actually a great point.
@BeTheDeathOfMe Truem but character purposes have always been shifting over the course of the show. it could be a much more relevant direction to take him
I think Herman falls more into the super anti-government libertarian side of things politically not far-right but that's just my take.
@BeTheDeathOfMe True that they didn't have the prepper climate but the survivalist climate was booming, particularly in media. He definitely always struck me as an armchair general, someone who worships the military lifestyle but never served himself. Everything about him just screams poseur to me.
It's true. But tbh the show was run by Fox and there main fanbase is made up of conspiracy nuts. So making a character to mock the major fanbase is not a good idea.
I like that character, I don't think he is uninteresting at all.
Mary or something Maybe he went to jail ?
Nobody like this comment. We need to keep it at 69 likes
He is very predictable and 2 dimensional. He is literally white bread with a gun. Super boring.
@@jasonmnosaj ok. I disagree
Jason Allcreator And shares these strong common traits with many millions & millions of others, in the American population. 👍😉❤️😎
I remember reading a Simpsons comic book (can't remember the issue, but I think it was #100) where Herman explains that he lost his arm because he wore it down from drawing so much. Now that I think about it, it would be interesting to talk about Simpson comics since few seem to remember them as well as the show.
I think Herman's whole insanity could be played well. I think he's generally the reason why Bart the General works, as having this insane military nut plot a strategic course to throw water balloons at a bully is genuinely funny and makes the episode much better. He is relatively serious most of the time, but I think he could work in being completely loony in situations that're otherwise pretty tame. I mean it's like Batman, you put this big gruff man in a mundane situation like watering plants and it's so absurd that the contrast kinda writes itself.
Then again, considering how tied to his military antique shop he is, it makes sense why he really fell off.
Headcanon: Herman never served, he's just one of those guys that LARPs on Reddit all day. That's why he stopped appearing.
I've always pictured him to be an essential archetype of american society, extremist beliefs, gun fanatic, traumatized veteran and conspiracy theorist just as much as the plot or joke needs it. Maybe as a loner, more urban equivalent to Clethus.
When I was a kid I had Herman (or as I called him back then, "one armed gun store owner") as the favorite to shoot Mr. Burns. He hadn't been used very much, he was obviously unhinged, and he just came off as the sort that would do something murderous. The other criminals in the show at that point didn't have that seriousness and Homer/Smithers always felt like red herrings (I mean who would want lovable Homer to turn out to be a killer?). I always liked old Hermy, his contrast in tone actually made him interesting I thought. Personally I think it may have been a blessing in disguise for the writers that they stopped using him because he could very easily have been the staple Neo Nazi of the show that current culture today would freak out over worse than Apu.
The Herman's Head joke made me love this video before you even got to your point.
i knew somebody else had to have caught that!
I scrolled forever to find this comment. I was wondering if anyone else caught that reference. Man! We're getting old. Lol
Counting mine, this is only the 3rd comment referencing Herman's Head and I've scrolled *a lot* to find it haha
It's interesting what can dub do to a character. I remember in czech version, when he sees Bart, he greets him by saying "Sieg Heil, mein junge!" which is literally a nazi greeting; mein junge means "my boy". And when Bart asks him how he lost his arm, he says he lost it while doing nazi salute from a bus, which makes Bart look of discomfort very obvious. I always assumed he was in Hitlerjugend, and after war, he fled to USA to start new life, but not really forgetting about it. It's not really something that is played with alot in Czech version, and obviously various dubs put jokes that make sense in their language or culture, but it definitely makes you see him much worse than he is, especially with all things that were said in video.
May I just say there is a brief possible reference you could have gone to...
In Marge on the Lam, Homer got his arm stuck in a vending machine Carl said "I heard someone lost an arm in there" and you see an arm ripped off and stripped to the bone.
Now it's not specifically mentioned to be his arm but it's still a possible link.
"Questioning someone's military service is kinda yucky" Most American sentence ever said
It's definitely up there, but something about the US being the great country on earth is probably a more American sentence.
@@NirateGoel something with the word freedom needlessly in it.
@@5hiftyL1v3a That's another. Maybe something with both is even more American.
Or socialism is evil is probably another one to that list.
@@NirateGoel The millions that died because of socialism probably disagree with you
@@EndOfSmallSanctuary97 Hundreds and hundreds of millions have died due to capitalism. Do one.
I think the fact that he appears so sparingly is the thing that makes Herman interesting. He pops up and you think "Oh look, it's Herman, haven't seen him in a while." Then he disappears again and you forget about him until the next time.
0:28 "What the heck is going on in Herman's Head?" I see what you did there...
Hardly anyone did, apparently! I guess most people don't remember/know the show.
I've always liked Herman as a character personally. Not entirely sure why. I feel like what they could've done from the start is make his store less specific and do the military and weapons stuff in the back, given he's already a shady dude. Something like a Pawn Shop as a front would make him able to be used in a lot more scenarios. As-is, I'd imagine he will, rarely, get speaking roles in the future, but only if they need his specific style of character.
I love your simpsons videos man. Brilliant tone and pace. Rewatch em all the time.
Marge: "What's so funny?"
Lisa: ''Oh, uh, I was just thinking of a joke I saw on Herman's Head. Ha ha ha..."
Marge: "Hmmm"
It's funnier that your picture is Joy from Inside Out, a film with a similar concept to Herman's Head
Jackson DeStefano I do find it weird when people bring up that connection as some kind of "gotcha" to the idea that Pixar is original. Like they've never claimed they were the first to come up with ideas like "toys come to life" or "anthropomorphising you mind's traits"
Harryhenry I wasn't saying it as a gotcha, I was just stating something funny I noticed with the comment.
Jackson DeStefano I got what you mean there, and I meant my comment to be talking about the broader discourse, you excluded. Sorry for not communicating that
My mother was an ER nurse and treated a child who lost his arm hanging it out a school bus window. So it can happen. And having an ER nurse as a mother, my brother and I had a weird list of things we couldn’t enjoy because they caused injuries in other kids, like we couldn’t eat Pringles out of those cans in the 80s, we had to put them in a bowl. We also weren’t allowed to chew gum or have those snap bracelets or play lawn darts. Oddly enough, my brother and I both played dangerous sports (he played football and I took riding lessons) and she never made us wear helmets when riding a bike
"What the heck is going on in Herman's Head?"
i see what you did there. Nice.
After 30 years of stories, I think the Simpsons who benefit from using Herman instead of repeating storylines
I didn't know the...uh...subtext behind Herman's scene in 22 Short Films until recently which, i admit, makes things a little more uncomfortable.
However, he says something along the lines of "When Zed arrives the party will begin" Zed being the character he's representing on this Pulp Fiction parody. You could use this line to claim Herman was not going to...to do that, but he still tied them up.
When I first saw him in 22 Short Films about Springfield I thought he was a 1-time character who just happened to share a voice actor with Ned Flanders because he was available
The "disturbing scene" is but a blatant Pulp fiction reference -- obviously -- and nothing deeper than that.
He mentions this
Yes, but the point is that said reference makes for an uncomfortable thaught on the character when you make the correlation with the original scene in Pulp Fiction.
They were probably like 'well we just made a Herman model might as well use it again' in season 24
I know I’m late to the party but I’d also like to add that the Simpson’s no longer uses characters who smoke or uses guns. Idk why.... but can you honestly remember the last time a Simpson’s character pulled a gun on someone? Or it could be the fact that they don’t want to show old military people in a negative light. 🤷🏾♀️
I wish he was used in the Raging Abe Simpson episode as it would make sense if Grandpa went to his store to buy weapons to defend himself against Mr Burns
I think his role in the show was precisely to be the guy who is actually supposed to make you uncomfortable, so yeah that the kind of thing works in more crude shows like Fam Guy and South Park but not so much in the Simpsons, I still think he had potential for more minor appearances tho, Im glad they included him in the crazy survivalist club
I think you know more about simsons than the show creators now
The shady, small-time criminal activity is so much funnier when Moe does it.
I always figured he was based on a Vietnam war vet, and was rarely used due to being deemed "insensitive" to the real war vets....
This was absolutely gorgeous! Can this be a new series? Where you analyze why some characters were put into background or killed off, while others risen to light or were newly created?
"She can take a 16 megaton blast -- no more, no less."
Herman struck me as survivalist/militia movement type, which you saw all over the place in the 80s and early 90s. Probably has the entire back catalogue of Soldier of Fortune and Paladin Press in his basement next to the illegal machine gun parts. One of those sorts of people who were never actually in the military but sorround themselves with military paraphenalia.
It took me quite a bit to stumble across this channel, but here is something that I hope to be the first one.
Hermann is actually a frequent German surname and is written with two n as in Mann wich is german for man .
Review the day the violence died
Interestingly enough the story about his arm was changed in the German dub. Over he said he lost it because he pushed a box of apples into a straw cutter and went too far in. Not entirely sure why you'd put a box of apples into a straw cutter but there you go.
That's so random!
You're not allowed to stick your arm out in Germany.
@@scotcheggable underrated comments
I've always found it humorous that he disappeared right after the chief Wiggum thing
Herman is the outcast. The fact you almost never see him is the "running joke". It's just the way he wants. * read in Herman voice. *
Hehe
I always assumed he was just a crazy Vietnam vet who lost his arm during the war and now suffers from PTSD
I've never thought of Herman as NOT being a major part of "the Simpsons".
Herman is my favorite character there's lots of fun and jokes to be done with herman
Should ask Lisa about Herman's Head.
(she was on that show, too)
Also, we might get more Herman as store owner now that Apu is gone.
i always assumed he lost his arm in grenada. no real, solid reason for it
“Homer’s carhole.” you are a true fan.
Another character who needs some backstory is Wiseguy\Raphael. The one with the grey hair side parted. You can see him quite a lot, like in the one where Sideshow Bob briefly turns good. With the "Boy Bomb" in it.
Survivalists tend to be hard to kill off.
It does seem odd when you think of the episode when homer buys a gun you'd think it would have been a good time to give Herman a quick cameo but I'm not American so I don't know the deal with buying a weapon
I would love to see more of Herman though it would make the show more varied. Like make it a little more real. So it would make it more lifelike like it used to be
This series got me interested in watching the Simpsons again - and lo and behold, in season 35, Herman shows up kind of a lot in the background, and gets a *whole line* in it! Herman's back
I really feel there are a decent amount of uses for Herman in the show. His appearances in Chief of Hearts, Penny-Wiseguys and The Old Blue Mayor She Ain't What She Used to Be, were perfect times for him to have some sort of dialogue because he was relevant to the situations he was placed in for those episodes. It would be cool to have another episode about him.
"They've been in the garage for quite a long time. I don't think they're coming back."
The only jokes i can think of for him would be related to his arms. Either he gets a replacement that keeps coming off during normal scenes following the simpsons or he'll be close to losing his other arm. That's the only thing i can think of to keep him as a returning joke. Kind of like spongebob's "my leg!!!" Character. Could also give a reason to why he always seems shady and is into weapons. He doesn't trust people. He feels the world is trying to kill him. That's just my random thoughts. It could have worked but I don't think they wanted it to work anyway. His design is way more creepy than the other characters. I don't think they'll want such a oddball out being shown often cause already he's missing a arm so he stands out, with his face often having some crazy eyes and a cigarette I don't think his design helped him be reused either
I don't know I could see him being used like otto except instead of drug jokes he could be used for unhinged conspiracy theorist jokes
7:10 they wouldn't accept him with a missing arm in the first place
I still don't get your adversity to questioning Herman's military service. It's not "kinda icky," he's a fictional character.
Can I ask, is it bad to question someone’s military service and if so why? I’ve never really heard about that before and I genuinely don’t know.
@@BigRed3000 No idea, personally. I've never heard of it being a bad thing, but I'm not a yank so it's just me.
But even if it is, again, I think there's nothing wrong with it, Herman isn't real. He's a cell sheet played by a voice actor.
When the show came out I believe it was heavily implied that Herman was a Vietnam vet. 30 years later it's harder to make that same sell. Hence probably why he stopped being used.
Herman wears a medal, and I can't work out whether he'd think it was ok to fake winning it. It MAY just be stock from the shop.
I think Herman was just to dark for FOX
You'd think FOX would love a gun wielding military nutjob
Looks like the spider caught himself a couple of flies
Herman witnessed the Carhole scene, that automatically makes him a legend.
Who needs a Garage when you have a Carhole
did he go to jail for the counterfit jeans thing?
that could explain the 15 year absence
He kinda reminds me of the babysitter bandit I don’t know why also speaking of t the babysitter bandit in the episode where Flanders house breaks and he goes to a mental hospital you can see the babysitter bandit in the stall next to him
Herman was a Vietnam war vet type character like Lt Dan from Forrest Gump. That was a common and well known archetype in the early 90's but it's not really relevant in the zombie simpsons era.
“No one who speaks German could be an evil man...”
Skinner's prisoner helmet is a reference to the prisoner number in Les Miserables
Herman is what we in Germany call nowadays "a Reichsbürger" .
Herman is one of my favorite characters just cause jokes about him are funny. I think his story is most likely that he went to war and got really shaken up by it. Gave him the loose screws he has, and came back.
Okay, this video has been up for three years but I thought I should mention that in the German version he says that he lost his arm because "If you push a crate into a wood chipper, you should always know how far you can go" which is super dark, if you ask me.
Herman is definitely one of my favourite side characters. He's great.
Your channel is soooooooo under rated
When your teacher says keep your arm inside the window keep yr arm inside the window should disqualify any military service in my opinion
Herman's job being done better by other characters reminded me of Pokemon of all things. There's hundreds, so naturally, some end up filling the role of others better, with generalists getting the short end of the stick most of the time.
I like the Herman’s Head reference in the beginning lol
Herman has to be my favorite character..
At 1:56 on one episode hermans arm we sore got chopped by abe Simpson when they were driving away from the dog catcher trying to get little homers old dog called bongo so they drove and Herman put his arm up with his thumb up to get a ride but they sliced this arm so he opened a gun shop so what is the true thing behind it we will never know?!.
Herman is the balance on the opposite bowl of scales. He is the opposition to all that foolishness of the main characters. And you’re more likely to meet folks like him in real life more often than goofy Homers.
He's my favorite simpson villain
Herman is like Moe in that he's a shady creep with criminal connections but without the vulnerability and heart of gold.
I liked the Herman’s head joke, especially with the connection to Yeardly….
I was just thinking the same thing 😂
1:55 in this scene, in czech version he literally says he lost his arm when he was doing nazi salute out of the bus window...
I know someone that's basically just Herman but sane and not as shady and it's very weird
As for his name, it reminds me of the main character in the novel Lolita who is named "Humbert Humbert." It's a joke
Kuma Sama Huh, and herman IS a creep...
you say that the plot rarely demands herman, but in the episode where homer buys a gun, it's raphael behind the counter when herman could easily have been used
I find Herman to be a memorable character. I saw the the preview image for this video, and I was like, "oh yeah, that guy." I found him amusing for while I watched the show... which I stopped watching around season 13 or so.
I would love to see him more in the newer seasons again would love to have him again in villain roles he could easily be a villain in an episode in which he is the enemy to Fat Tony or something i think that guy has potential
Can you talk about Ned's "Flanderization?" I've heard it talked of as character rot, but I disagree. Flanders seems to fall hard into his Christian beliefs, giving up his "normal" traits slowly after his wife is killed by his neighbor.
He looks a little like the babysitter bandit.