The Saints and Why They Matter
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Join Fr. Panayioti and Strati on an all new discussion. This time the focus is on the saints.
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God bless y’all! I’m currently a catecumen in the Greek Orthodox Church. I pray for all the Protestants to understand the reason why Mary and the Saints are significant.
I'm high-church Anglican my brother-and indeed we can learn soooo much from the Blessed Orthodox Church and Orthodox theology. Blessings over the Nativity season.
I'm a protestant convert. As a child, even before I was protestant, I read the story of the passing of Elisha which is recorded in 2Kings 13; 14-21
This story completely baffled me for over 50 years. It was only after Chrismation as an Orthodox Christian that I began to realize
The significance of this event. While the early protestants did manage to fool many by attempting to throw away the Holy Deutero-cannoniacle texts, they couldn't extract this event from the text that they claim to accept. And so it remains a faithful witness to protestants like myself that the ancient faith is not changed as we were taught.
Another point that I see is in reference to John 11;26. Jesus said whosoever lives and believes in me will never die. (This is only a portion of the passage) However if we are to teach that Saints are merely dead people we must also deny the words of Our Lord Himself. Because we deny the eternal life which he promised by his own declaration.
Love your channel super food! 💯
You need to convince Father Panayiotis to get on discord! You also need to make a discord.
I’d love to talk to him, considering my quite peculiar situation.
We actually have a discord server
@Theosebes Also if you really want talk with him i can give you our email and you can get in touch with him any time. He can even set up a meeting via the phone or zoom
why no video?
Podcast.
God wouldn't have told us in the scriptures, "The fervent effectual prayer of a righteous man availeth much (James 5: 16)," if He didn't intend for us to ask such righteous men & women for their prayers. Who are more righteous, who are closer to God, who are more undivided in their devotion to God then those who share Heaven w/ God now?
I appreciate Father Panayiotis ability to deliver the message in a calm and joyful manner to Orthodox inquierers. May God grant him many years!
“As he said this, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, ‘Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts that you nursed!’ But he said, ‘Blessed RATHER are those who hear the word of God and keep it!'” (Luke 11:27-28).
Nice clarity 👍
Whenever Protestants downplay Mary’s importance, they always end up downplaying the incarnation as a result.I one time brought up the closeness Jesus had with Mary in the womb, and compared it to how Moses couldn’t even look at the face of God, but here she is baring Him in her Blessed womb. His argument was to bring up Judas kissing Jesus, and say that these two events were “fundamentally the same”. It’s really sad what rejecting these doctrines do. When I was a Protestant I didn’t get it, but now it’s really obvious to me.
Zealous Justin
Let all Glory be to God+++
Theotokos most Holy Virgin Mary who hast borne the SAVIOUR of our Souls +++
The Most Holy Virgin herself prophesied through the Holy Spirit For behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed; for He that is mighty has done to me great things (Luke 1:48-49)
Apostle Paul says: Therefore brethren stand fast and keep the traditions which you have been taught whether by word or our epistle (2 Thess. 2:15)
Archangel Gabriel greeted her at the annunciation (Luke 1:28-29)
ICXC NIKA
@Zealous Justin What is it that is now obvious to you sir? Nothing with Mariology is obvious as it is made up lies that have evolved over the centuries and keep growing bigger and bigger. May you make the doctrines obvious to me by quoting them in scripture, how they came about or how they are God inspired and who declared them the true gospel:
1. Assumption of Mary into Heaven
2. Immaculate Conception of Mary
3. Queen of Heaven
4. Co-mediatrix or Co-mediator
4.Scapulars and medals and how they help in the salvation of men
5. The origins of the Rosary
Thank you. Make it obvious for me too sir.
@@wesleysimelane3423 Are you really seeking the truth, or are you simply spouting off your presumptuous qualms with Roman Catholic doctrines on an Eastern Orthodox video?
@@nuzzi6620 I will never worship Mary.
@@elenihelenmelb Moses didn't see the real face of GOD but he and the Israelite elders saw a physical representation on Mount Sinai.
Thank You for this video Fr. Panayioti and Strati.
Most welcome! It is our pleasure, Glory to God
I knew nothing until l read a book by a saint on Mt. Athos called " Wounded by Love". I think it was Porphyrios. After l read that book l was never the same. I understand where his Clairvoyant abilities came from and why. These Orthodox Saints are not known because if two things. Humbleness and Humility. These saints are so careful to make sure their pride doesn't put them above any of us.
Love the Church Fathers, Saints and the Tradition with Scriptures of Orthodoxy. The ancient music used here in the introduction not so much.
So the christians are alive right now in heaven.
I appreciate the father's teaching but not so much the other fellows glib remarks regarding cremation. If you were trying to be witty, you got only half way there at most.
Can you give me a time stamp?
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Protestant here. I'm very appreciative of the Orthodox and Catholic preservation of saints' lives. Praying to saints still feels odd because I ask people with whom I've dialogued for prayer... People who have shown themselves dedicated to ME. But what I'm hearing here is... Christians can ask saints to pray for them because they are alive in Christ and have ceased sinning so they're not going to give up on praying for me. Is that a fair summary?
How do you grow close with a saint? That sense of kinship that makes asking for prayer easy is hard to muster if one were to pick a random saint & say "pray for me!" Just trying to understand.
Also, what do we know about the Theotokos extrabiblically? I've heard this "she loved Jesus most because she was his mother" argument a lot but it doesn't seem to bear any more weight than "Peter was welcomed back after denying Christ so he was even more bonded to Christ as a result so we should pray to him above all others." Does my question even make sense? Thanks for your time. ❤️
Hello friend, I hope you are well.
We still believe in a God we don't see, right? Have you seen the Trinity? We don't see Christ, but we know he loves us, and we mystically feel that love. In communion, it is physically bread and wine, but it is mystically the body and blood of Christ(I don't know if you believe in communion being the body and blood of Christ, but I add it to make a point)
So we already have faith without seeing, so the saints fall into this mystical realm. They love God to such an extent that their prayers are very powerful. Christ speaks of people being able to do miracles in His name; in other words, people who aren't Him but because they are close to him can do incredible things. So why does that have to end after their death? If anything, their prayers are even more powerful after they pass on as they stand before the throne of God and pray fervently for the living(as is mentioned in John's revelation).
Also, I know many people who have a strong connection to various saints. I have such relationships, and it isn't something "rational" that you can explain with human reason, much like believing in God, which goes beyond human logic.
Now on to the Theotokos.
Is your question about why she is so important? Because she is not mentioned much in the new testament? At this point, we need to discuss two things: the fact that she gave birth to God in the flesh and that the Church is not a book. In other words, it isn't about being biblical but rather about the greater community of Christian faithful from the earliest centuries to this day. So let's speak of what happened. The pre-eternal God, who existed before time and space, chose this young Jewish woman to be his mother in the flesh. Can you imagine how special a person must be to have the uncreated God take flesh from them and be born and raised by that person? She was undoubtedly the most special mortal who had ever lived. Now that in no way implies she was a Divine person; she did not become a god.
But Christians recognized her holiness from very early on, and she was given a place of honor within the Church. I hope this response helps
@@Trisagionfilms Thank you for your response. I am trying to appreciate these things more but finding it hard to overcome my sociocultural worldview. I've read The Life of Antony by St Athanasius and found it very inspiring and challenging. "Spending time with" St Antony in this way helped me make sense of how to think about praying to saints - though they are "gone" and though one cannot "talk with" them they are still able to help meditate between a believer and Christ to deepen the believer's faith. But more than just any author or subject of a biography in the ancient world. But that's what my brain's starting with - this but more expansive.
As for Mary, that's a good point. I don't disagree at all. I'm asking more for, I guess, a way of engaging with her as a more important figure. St Thomas went to India and I've seen the fruit of his effort today. What of Mary? Yes, she was remarkably favored by God to be chosen as Christ's mother. Yes, she must have loved him more than any other person because of this. (I've felt my own love for my daughter and seen my wife overcome with love and gratitude for her... Parental love is something else, haha.) What else do we know about her? Did her love lead her to this place or that? Or did it lead her to "treasure these things in her heart" in more contemplation? I just don't have a sense of who she is aside from "she must have loved Jesus the most" and "she must have been special" and other speculative reasoning that doesn't firmly help me get to know her.
Thank you again for your kindness. I do so appreciate your prior response.
So I am assuming you are a protestant, am I right? It is tough for many protestants to understand why these things and people are important. You answered your own question without realizing it. Saint Thomas' fruits can be seen, and so can the rest of the apostles, but what do you think Mary's contribution to all this is? She gave us Christ! She gave us the apostles! She gave us the truth! I mean, is giving us the savior not enough! :)
We can't reduce her role. She gave birth to the Messiah! God waited from adam for someone worthy of this role;
It should also be noted, and this is perhaps what you are looking for, that by loving Christ to the extent that she did, she also loved all mankind! So her love for God manifests into love for us, and Christians from very early on realized that her prayers are extremely powerful. She became His mother, and thus she became our mother, and she loves all of us as her own children. Her contribution is not written in journals; it is not in traveling long distances to preach to the nations, but her contribution is spiritual and transcends space and time because her love for Christ and humanity is so great.
And so her love and prayers are so powerful that the Church dedicated hymns and prayers that ask her to pray for us because they saw that she helped time and time again. There are thousands of stories.
Also, there is another story I want to share with you. Once in recent years, a monk confessed to his spiritual father that he loved her more than Christ... he did not like this fact and felt guilty. His elder told him to keep asking her for intercessions and that she will lead him to Him. And that is what happened; his love for her turned into love for Christ, which is the ultimate goal. These things are part of the 2000+ years of Christian experience.
There are also extra-biblical writings about her that are part of the so-called "Apocrypha" texts which expand upon her life and give us more details. Although only some things have been accepted as tradition, you can look up these texts and discover more about her life.
st.Spiderman:“If you keep something as complicated as love stored up inside, it could make you sick.” /
st.Craig Dunham: “ It feels good and means a lot to hear God call us His saints, but I wish we were better at thinking of each other in this way. Sometimes we don’t treat each other like saints at all. “/
st. Nicholaos :"The Giver of every good and perfect gift has called upon us to mimic His giving, by (eph 2) Grace, Through Faith(Sola Fide), and this is not of ourselves."/
st.Pauls(once a persecutor) letter to the Romans 8:27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
Dr. Michael S Heiser: “We are created to image God, to be His imagers. It is what we are by definition. The image is not an ability we have, but a status. We are God’s representatives on earth. To be human is to image God.”
st.Catmatix yasou my brother Cross spiders are master weavers. www.poeticous.com/john-bunyan/the-sinner-and-the-spider
Are there saints that weren't declared saints by the Church ? I mean people that are saints as per God's own judgement but that were never revealed as such by the Church (perhaps because they remained unknown or not appreciated) ? That idea sounds dangerous to me
Some saints go unknown for centuries until discovered. Why does it sound dangerous to you?
@@Trisagionfilms Because I might end up asking for the intercession of someone who is not saint !
If we don't know that a saint exists, how does that lead us to ask someone who isn't a saint to pray for us?
@@Trisagionfilms Well if we think we knew someone who was Christian to a "high degree" in some sense, we might then think they may have been a saint and ask for his/her intercession when, perhaps, this person wasn't who we think. Isn't that risky ? I guess its best to stick to the Church anyway, there are already plenty of great saints. Saint Porphyrios in particular strikes me as an amazing gift of God to mankind, may his soul be blessed by the Almighty
We never ask for the intercessions of a person until they are formally declared a saint by the Church. So some go unknown until they are revealed by the holy spirit to the Church and canonized. Although not everyone seems to follow this, there is a rule that we don't make icons and hold services to people who have not been formally canonized by the Church. Although sometimes there are private devotions to a non-canonized saint, the general rule is we wait for a Holy Synod to officially add them to the synaxarion.