@@waratahdavid696 I'm afraid that's true. Back in 96 some of then would still have had experience of comtested-ish scrums in RL. Terry O'Connor would have been superb as a union prop but then again it takes years of coaching to understand how to cheat effectively as a front row forward in union.
@@waratahdavid696 Yes as much as the idea sounds good, it just can't happen, also Union defense could not adjust to league attack if they played half each code
Love both codes. More of a league man. I follow the Gallgher English premiere league and Super League. I quit watching the NFL 3 years ago. This stuff is way better for me.
I like League, Union, and Sevens. Wish I could find a streaming service online to show all 3, that doesn't require subscribing to a tv network package. My favorites are NRL for League, Internationals for Union. Always look forward to State of Origin best of 3, and Roosters-Rabbitohs rivalry when both are having good years. For Union, I like the All Blacks. USA for Sevens. Really getting to enjoy Union more and more now that I'm getting the nuances. I like the constant flow of Union WHEN there aren't a lot of ruck penalties. And on the con side, Union is seeming to be getting a little over-officiated, including too much TMO time. I like the kicking aspect of Union, whereas many League fans don't. However League seems to be emphasizing kicking a little more with the 40-20 (and I think they instituted a 20-40 as well now). League should also raise the drop goal points to 2, instead of the almost useless 1. I notice that Bath players look so small in this video compared to the bigger Union players of today. Except for the props, League players all look like a team of Union wingers, built for speed. I imagine Union is closing the speed gap now. Don't really want a unified code though, as some have suggested. I think that would especially hurt Union more than League. In these cross-code contests (which I'm not really a fan of), I believe the ruck is the biggest challenge for the League players. Union players probably struggle some with the play-the-ball 10 meter backup (which gives the speedsters more room to get a running start), and having to cover more ground individually. Wish the USA were a little more competitive in Union. We hold our own in Sevens (when we can keep it together). I'm afraid that for Rugby to really take off here, we would have to sacrifice one code for the other, in regard to Union/League, to build an appreciable fan base with more than novelty support. America already has 4 major league team sports contending for air time and money, with MLS a distant 5th. On top of that, college football might be considered to be almost on par, fan base-wise with the NFL. So that pushes the others down another notch. Sevens is kind of immune to that because it fulfills a niche role, doesn't really have to compete for major venues, and has a short season. So as much as I like League, I would rather see USA push Union. The Union Eagles are well ahead of the League Hawks in development for one thing, and Union is what the colleges are going to be playing anyway. Got to really get it going at the high school level too. Since most high schools in the South and (probably) West don't have hockey teams, rugby could compete with soccer as a 4th sport. It's different enough from American football to have its own interest. Also, if you played it in the spring opposite baseball, it wouldn't have to directly compete against football and many football players could play it as well. Not really a problem at college level, because by then, most kids will have picked a sport and not be multi-sport athletes. Just my two cents worth.
It's pretty clear that what undid Wigan in this game was the complexity of the Union rules at scrums and rucks rather than Bath's innate ability. Disappointing to see Bath going for goal with each penalty. Wigan's tries revealed where the real talent lay.
They were superb at turning an error into points as Stevo said in commentary. The thing is for all Bath were thrashed in the rugby league fixture, that was because they didn't have any instinct of how to defend in rugby league. But the same thing happened to Wigan in this game with the tries Bath scored. It's different defending ball coming out of a union ruck or a lineout or a scrum than a ruck in rugby league.
These days both codes are more different than those days. Each play, each position is much more professionalized. I really want to see League England vs. Union England!
An amateur Bath out score the full professional Wigan side 7 tries to 3. And only kicked one penalty the whole match, even without their best attacking player. I know which kind of game I prefer.
+Christine Henly You did notice which team scored the exciting, length of the pitch tries I take it? Union is sooooo boring. And it was 14 tries to 1 at the man's game. I know which game I prefer.
Stuart Barnes still talking utter bollox, strange but very true. This was a great advert for both codes, Bath did well considering this is their version of the game, Wigan I think could have won this, a few basic errors cost them, hardly surprising really, but what a day out for the fans. I played union as a hooker but love watching RL, the other game in this series was brilliant!
For a game that is notoriously shit for scrums ATM ,Wigan showed how simple scrummaging can be ! Yes they gave a few penalty tries away,but no resets and no collapsing ! Fair play
Seeing Wigan run from everywhere was impressive but seeing them keep the scrums up even when they were going backwards at a rate of knots was even more so. Any Union team now would drop the scrum immediately and take the penalty. Coaches seem to like that sort of cynical play but as a fan I'd prefer to watch teams play like Wigan (yes I know they were heavily beaten...still though).
Having tried my hand at both codes, I can say that if given a shot, league forwards would run rings around union ones. I had never tried union until the day I scored three tries against lads who had been playing years and then as a league prop forward scored a full length try of my own. I also feel league as a faster more skilled game is more interesting. Union is far too kick-orientated. With all that said I'd love this to be a regular maybe once every two year fixture, similar to how the WCC is in league, get the champions of both codes together for two games and see how the clubs fair. Perhaps even make it a charity thing.
Sam Burgess is a prop or lock in league but would never be a 1st or 2nd row forward in a Union squad. Burgess could have been a decent Union flanker given time, but played at centre in union. Henry Paul sometimes played loose forward in League but was a centre/fly half when he switched codes. Thanks to the contested set piece and breakdown in Union there's not much equivalence between the front row and second row forwards between the two codes, nearly all of the league players in those positions would be flankers or centres in Union.
@@robw7676 Exception to this is Brad Thorn. Greatest cross code player ever in my opinion because he was the only one to do it in the front five at second row.
Good story bro. Where did you play? I played flanker in union. When my mate asked me to play league for his team I couldn't understand why 90%of the players were just standing around watching 4 -6 players only ever playing the game at any time
@@NoName-hg6cc the league game was embarrassing. Naturally bath would win at union but league as a game has a higher level of core rugby skills hence union sides consistently hire league coaches (plus the dollar)
@@cauliflowerpete616 Union too was embarrassing for Wigan. Core skills? Depends. Passing perhaps. But scumming, rucking, mauling, kicking etc...no. That's why League foward rarely play as fowards in Union
I'd suggest Brian Campsall, the referee, should have stuck to his day job - a secondary school games teacher. Unfortunately, as I know from first hand experience, he was crap at that as well.
@@shanefelkel9966 At least they have international rules games combining the two sports to one. Compromises for both and they meet at the middle rules wise
@@floydkingi4364 Ray Price only played 7 union tests as he signed with Parramatta eels, he would've played a lot more otherwise, he wasn't called Mr Perpetual motion for nothing.
To Me ,A WIGAN RLFC FAN 58YEARS , THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A RIVALRY, BETWEEN THE CODES , LEAGUE HARDER THAN UNION ,and vice versa! I wish i had a tenner fo every time ive argued , saying League is Tougher WHEN THE FACT IS ,THEY ARE AS TOUGH AS EACHOTHER IN THEIR OWN WAYS ,I THINK LEAGUE AND UNION ,HAVE REALISED THIS ,AND NOW HELP EACHOTHER OUT ,WITH GAMES LIKE BATH V WIGAN ,! AND COACHES FROM LEAGUE TO UNION ,ARE THRIVING , ESPECIALLY ON FITNESS LEVEL,S ! ALSO THE FANS ,BOTH CODES ,ARE 2ND TO NONE ,BOTH THERE FOR THE FAMILY FRIENDLY , ATMOSPHERE! Rugby United ,is my motto ,Cos lets face it WE IS ALL DAFT AS EACHOTHER
Interesting that Wigan showed up quite a better better than Bath had had in the League match as the Wigan players were hardened professionals where as the Bath guys would have been amateurs until a few months before this.
The Bath guys were technically amateur but in reality were full time and paid through sponsorships. That was a big part of the problem - some Union players like Jeremy Guscott 'earned' far more than the best paid UK League players. Thankfully that all changed.
Possibly because a few of Wigan's players were union players originally (offiah, quinnell, tuigamala,I imagine Henry Paul must have played union growing up in NZ), but to be fair they did do quite well,if it had been uncontested scrums it could have been pretty even
@@alanpelz a lot of the wigan side were top union player who crossed codes to earn cash as union wasn't professional not to mention the bath side is amateur. A better representation would be the storm vs crusaders now.
@@mitcholeary1526 Actually to be fair only a couple of Wigan players were from Union at the time - and though technically amateur Union players at the time were paid through different means (for example a high paid job at a big company that they never did anything for other than attend the occasional public event) many of them highly paid. I am a league fan but not a union hater to be clear - at the time these two teams were barnstorming teams and all players were in the top pay bracket :-)
@@deepanalysispodcast Just send through the evidence of (for example a high paid job at a big company that they never did anything for other than attend the occasional public event) cheers
I like both codes but prefer union. Ive never quite understood the league saying union is stop start. To me league is stop start. Guess its in the eye of the beholder.
@@lapalad In theory, Union is free flowing because the ball has to be released in the tackle but it doesn't take a genius to figure out this will inevitably lead to penalties being incurred - thus in practice Union is more stop-start.
The irony of that. League is just "tackle, rest, reset x5 then kick and pray". It's so repetitive. Union has so much more variety on how to play the game.
Bath being awarded penalty after penalty. Wigan denied possession for most of the game and get a perfectly good try disallowed. Despite that they still win the second half. It would be interesting to have a rematch. But looking at the spectacular quality and sheer athleticism RL over the last few years (especially with amazing mid-air corner finishes) RL would take some beating. RU has got faster and fitter but the biggest factor for me is (and always has been) that RL has to be fitter as the ball is in play far longer than RU with its stop-start technical nature. RU the ball is typically in play for 35 out of 80 minutes (far longer than it used to be! But in RL the average is 50 minutes (nearly 50% longer)
You forget about the rolling maul. League ball carriers go high into the tackle because they want to suck players into it. In union they would just get held up and turned over.
Union is a much stronger sport, when I say that I mean physically, everyone forgets about mauls, scrums, rucks and just the fact that Union has bigger players, yes Union runs less, but Union has more skill and patience than League, and Brains are a lot more important in Union
@@DJ-ce3hq I disagree with just about everything you say except yawnion players are bigger. As for brains, these are surgically removed from every yawnion forward as soon as he shows any promise. Your comment is redolent of yawnion snobbery.
happyspanners The biggest rugby market in the world (Australia, is dominated by league) The biggest and best league (NRL) league. Union isn't as 'international' as everyone makes out. You've got the home nations, NZ, France and SA on world level, union will be dead in 10 years in Australia. Whereas league has Australia, England NZ and Tonga. Not really that different is it, leagues also the national sport of PNG.
Alfa&Omega 00000 half of those aren’t world level. Australia NZ England Scotland wales ireland Png France Fiji Tonga Samoa USA Canada Lebanon. If you want to name all half decent sides
I don't think its so bad on another look, save for that forward pass. Campsall was quite pedantic but RU is frustratingly technical when it comes to penalties and the ref blowing the whistle.
I think the ref helped Bath quite a bit. Let’s face it Maurice Lindsay promised Bath that they wouldn’t put 100 on them during the League game and to win in their own code, Bath took a lot of penalties and showed minimal flair.
Pretty ordinary from Bath. Compare this match with the return fixture where Wigan just rip Bath a new one - Wigan stand out for their fight and their attitude.
This series of games was really interesting, though proved little. I remember at the first scrum (Graham Dawe was wearing white boots I think just to to take the piss out of the League Primas) the front rows popped up and the Wigan guys were going nuts whilst the Bath guys were laughing - would love to have known what was said to stir it up!
The Wigan guys are bigger, fitter and much stronger. Interestingly, the second half was 19-19 (a draw) and if they played again it's not unlikely that Wigan would win under Union rules. Bath just collected as many points as possible in the first half knowing that they did not have the fitness to compete. Rugby League is tougher: harder (and more!) tackles, fewer men, having to keep moving to hold the line (it's non-stop) whereas Rugby Union is far more complex with more stoppages and pauses in play. Although I personally preferred to play Union, I admit League is not only harder (to play) but also easier for a non-rugby person to understand, whereas rugby union is just complicated. That said, I still prefer union.
@@NoName-hg6cc They aren't well versed at scrums, it isn't part of the League game. Scums need skill and training to the point where they have scrum machines (no need for it in League), never under-estimate anyone, especially those who are better trained at it.
Guscott is no coward, and it's wrong of you to say so. Did it occur to you that he'd played against Tuigamala many times over the course of his career, including with the British Lions against the All Blacks in 1993 (well before this game)? Guscott was a great player, and wasn't afraid of anyone. Ten out of ten people would chose to have Lomu in their team over Tuigamala, and Guscott played against Lomu many times too.
In all honesty, as pretty much the best league club team of the time, Wigan should have been playing either Auckland, Northern Transvaal or Queensland. I'd say the union scoreline would've blown out to eighty points or more. The league game scoreline would've been like 80-25. Those Kiwi and Aussie players would have been more familiar with league.
There's loads of NRL club sides better than Wigan were, over the years, this isnt even the the best Wigan side, the side of 6 or 7 yrs before was better, Gregory, Lydon, Goodway, West, Bell and probably THE highest quality British Rugby Player of all time (either code ) Ellery Hanley
Haviing played both codes, wigan, widnes, leigh and union for Guilldford and Petersfield. The game for me was better playing league. Union is more of a kicking game whilst rugby more running. Great union and great league players would be great at both codes as they have natural talent. But i enjoyed the game and the clubs have great coaches and training.Union is much better at looking after their players especially being amateur.
There is a game called hybrid rugby which has been trialled in Australia, a few games have been played between junior level union and league teams. Interesting hybrid rules but ultimately I don't think it will take off. People either mainly like tea or coffee but not both in the same mug. The interest in the old games between Wigan and Bath and the 7s games was watching a team play a sport it had largely never played before, although Wigan had Quinnell, Tuigamala, Offiah, Tatupou, Edwards all of whom had played union either at school, club or representative level. Bath had no one who had played rugby league before
@@homeone4054 I have said before, at junior level in England, union and league should combine because the skills of running, passing and defensive lines are the same. Scrummaging and lineouts can come much later. I know it won't happen though, but it should.
It’s also been played half and half between St Helens and......I want to say Sale? A few years ago now. Aggregate score was used if I remember. But it doesn’t really work today. Back in 1996 union was not, or was only just turned, professional. In contrast to that Wigan had been full time for some years which could not be said of all top rugby league clubs even at that time. Today, you would have to have uncontested scrums as the specialist positions to not exist in RL, so it wouldn’t really work.
You think union boys weren't taking any money? All the big union talents wouldnt have stuck around if that was true. Its still the pay for the boys now but its just gatekept by english selection
said it before say it again union snobbery union is not the varied sport they make out stops far to much for penaltys noone knows what half are for league is the better game
Iain is bang on. Lomu is a machine, it is of course widely known he grew up playing league. He was spotted by New Zealand sevens star Eric Rush and was invited to try sevens and then union.
I was there and Bath made it as open a game as possible no kicking for touch and lineouts but no taking it away from Wigan they were an awesome team as the aggregate score over both matches reflected .
Wigan another 3: weeks learning union n they'd win easily, look at what's happened, Edwards, Farrell, learning union how the game should be played, a fact , Connolly no wonder guscott wimped out Connolly was the silent assassin,
The scrums in both codes have been a joke for decades. An experimental amalgam of the two codes would probably make for interesting viewing. For me, Union is too scrappy with too much reliance on kicking, mainly due to fear of being tackled and losing possession in their own half. Three points for penalties and drop goals in Union is too many, as it enables defensive teams to play for penalties and win with negative tactics.
They need to dilute the importance of the scrum, either by reducing their numbers (give free kicks instead for some offences rather than penalties, or remove the right for the scrum to be called for certain penalties) and they need to have the clock off until the ball leaves the scrum half's hands at the put in. There is so much time wasting at every scrum before it even forms and the scrum isn't supposed to move until the ball is in. If there are "offences" before the ball goes in, it doesn't matter. They will simply have to get it right with the clock off until they do. If the forwards want to bugger around then they should do it on their own time.
Scrum in Union is not a joke. To me, league is too boring, just running, tackling and reset. No tactics, no strategies, just running. 1 point for drop goal? REALLY?
@@homeone4054 No, League should stop being so simple and boring. It's just running and being tackle, if you want to play in the field like when you were 5 you can, but keep rugby out of it, that has little to do with rugby
Lets put things in perspective,Wigan were the reigning world club champions after beating Brisbane meaning they were the best club in the world now compare that to Bath who were only the best in the NH but everyone knows the SH dominate rugby.Bath would've been smashed by teams like the Crusaders,Blues,Reds,Sharks and Bulls who were the best SH provinces then so it's an unfair comparison,the best league club in the world against the best union club only in the NH.I guarantee the results would've been totally different had Wigan played the SH champions the Blues who were stacked with All blacks including Jonah Lomu in his prime.The Blues would've been competitive in the league but would've destroyed Wigan in union.
Interesting point. What was the Blues line up in mid 1996? Similar to the proposal to have the All Blacks play the Wallabies a few years ago. Would be good to see but unlikely to happen.
@@homeone4054 Jonah Lomu,Eronie Clarke,Carlos Spencer, Zinzan Brooke,Michael Jones and Sean Fitzpatrick.This was the worst showcase for this spectacle you had the best league club side in the world who were professionals taking on the 15-20th best union club side who were amateurs.
@@mitcholeary1526 you forgot Charlie Riechelmann, Lee Stensness, Leo Falaniko, Joeli Vidiri, Junior Tonu'u, Olo Brown, Craig Dowd, Sean Fitzpatrick, etc
@@gus-qj2mp Yes I went to that game, the weather was torrential so Sale spent the whole Union half forming rucks and driving it the whole length of the field with the ball up the jumper, barely a pass was made it was a farce. The fact that Saints won the 2nd half 39 - 0 throwing the ball around in those conditions was miraculous.
@@leecheetham6031 Scrummaging, rucking, mauling, goal kicking. RU specific skills I guess he means. RL consists of only 4 things thesedays since the NRL and Australian TV demanded the game be sped up and removed the last vestiges of competition for the ball apart from smashing someone's lights out: passing, tackling, 40/20s and goal kicking. The kicking out of hand in league thesedays is nowhere near as good as it was generally in the 90s/early 2000s when there were more genuine footballers in the game. And yes been watching RL since the late 80s.
Manwell Haumu The league team would still most likely win under league rules but nowadays I think the union game would be a much bigger mismatch than the league game. Union teams have borrowed a lot tactically from league since this happened, and in terms of athleticism and ball skills union players generally match up well with league now, which wasnt the case at all back when this vid happened. I honestly think the ABs could probably even pick up a few wins against NRL and Super League teams under league rules today.
***** It may seem an easy game ..but having to get back the required 10 will be were they struggle as they don't have to do any of that because of the quickness around the ruck area they will struggle with ..
Look who showed all the skills and entertainment while playing the oppositions own game. Would have been even closer if not for the clearly biased refereeing.
Let's make these cross code games happen again, it's really interesting to watch! Both codes have their place.
nightw4tchman league players would never be allowed to scrum with modern safety rules
@@waratahdavid696 I'm afraid that's true. Back in 96 some of then would still have had experience of comtested-ish scrums in RL. Terry O'Connor would have been superb as a union prop but then again it takes years of coaching to understand how to cheat effectively as a front row forward in union.
@@waratahdavid696 Yes as much as the idea sounds good, it just can't happen, also Union defense could not adjust to league attack if they played half each code
@@Zeph222 most Union teams have a league coach to coach defence
The scrum in rugby is to dangerous for league players.
Love both codes. More of a league man. I follow the Gallgher English premiere league and Super League. I quit watching the NFL 3 years ago. This stuff is way better for me.
Adam Sloan Yes. There are a few new teams coming in. Atlanta, DC, Boston and eventually LA Coast.
Adam Sloan Very good question. I do. It will take some time. Americans perception of Rugby is positive. They just don’t know the rules.
Adam Sloan I follow Toronto Wolfpack. Watch all the games. Most miserable Million Pound game ever. Love League.
A played Union. But I am a League Fan mainly now. I do like Union Internationals. I love Super League.
I like League, Union, and Sevens. Wish I could find a streaming service online to show all 3, that doesn't require subscribing to a tv network package. My favorites are NRL for League, Internationals for Union. Always look forward to State of Origin best of 3, and Roosters-Rabbitohs rivalry when both are having good years. For Union, I like the All Blacks. USA for Sevens. Really getting to enjoy Union more and more now that I'm getting the nuances. I like the constant flow of Union WHEN there aren't a lot of ruck penalties. And on the con side, Union is seeming to be getting a little over-officiated, including too much TMO time. I like the kicking aspect of Union, whereas many League fans don't. However League seems to be emphasizing kicking a little more with the 40-20 (and I think they instituted a 20-40 as well now). League should also raise the drop goal points to 2, instead of the almost useless 1.
I notice that Bath players look so small in this video compared to the bigger Union players of today. Except for the props, League players all look like a team of Union wingers, built for speed. I imagine Union is closing the speed gap now. Don't really want a unified code though, as some have suggested. I think that would especially hurt Union more than League. In these cross-code contests (which I'm not really a fan of), I believe the ruck is the biggest challenge for the League players. Union players probably struggle some with the play-the-ball 10 meter backup (which gives the speedsters more room to get a running start), and having to cover more ground individually.
Wish the USA were a little more competitive in Union. We hold our own in Sevens (when we can keep it together). I'm afraid that for Rugby to really take off here, we would have to sacrifice one code for the other, in regard to Union/League, to build an appreciable fan base with more than novelty support. America already has 4 major league team sports contending for air time and money, with MLS a distant 5th. On top of that, college football might be considered to be almost on par, fan base-wise with the NFL. So that pushes the others down another notch. Sevens is kind of immune to that because it fulfills a niche role, doesn't really have to compete for major venues, and has a short season. So as much as I like League, I would rather see USA push Union. The Union Eagles are well ahead of the League Hawks in development for one thing, and Union is what the colleges are going to be playing anyway. Got to really get it going at the high school level too. Since most high schools in the South and (probably) West don't have hockey teams, rugby could compete with soccer as a 4th sport. It's different enough from American football to have its own interest. Also, if you played it in the spring opposite baseball, it wouldn't have to directly compete against football and many football players could play it as well. Not really a problem at college level, because by then, most kids will have picked a sport and not be multi-sport athletes. Just my two cents worth.
It's pretty clear that what undid Wigan in this game was the complexity of the Union rules at scrums and rucks rather than Bath's innate ability. Disappointing to see Bath going for goal with each penalty. Wigan's tries revealed where the real talent lay.
Danm, Wigan would have won had it not been for those rucks, maul, scrums and penalties 111!
They needed the points.
What wonderful handling by the Wigan lads - sublime.
when the ball went out wide, Wigan were unstoppable
They were superb at turning an error into points as Stevo said in commentary.
The thing is for all Bath were thrashed in the rugby league fixture, that was because they didn't have any instinct of how to defend in rugby league. But the same thing happened to Wigan in this game with the tries Bath scored. It's different defending ball coming out of a union ruck or a lineout or a scrum than a ruck in rugby league.
These days both codes are more different than those days. Each play, each position is much more professionalized. I really want to see League England vs. Union England!
i want to see league australia vs union england!
Rugby union is closer to American Footbal these days.
Rugby League is vastly different today than what it was in the mid-90s.
That was a Legendary Wigan side, showcasing their sublime and far superior rugby skills, kicking Bath's ass, big style.
Jeremy Guscott was too scared to play
For once I agree with Stevo about that "forward" pass
Bath kicking penalties and Wigan running in tries in from 100 yards. I know which kind of game I prefer.
What game is that. ....
An amateur Bath out score the full professional Wigan side 7 tries to 3. And only kicked one penalty the whole match, even without their best attacking player. I know which kind of game I prefer.
+Christine Henly You did notice which team scored the exciting, length of the pitch tries I take it? Union is sooooo boring. And it was 14 tries to 1 at the man's game. I know which game I prefer.
Alex Forrester Does league even own a 80,000 plus seat stadium of their own??... league boring!!
+magic heats fuck off you imbusile
I was there, great fun. A not full strength Bath side won easily
fastforward 2003 ..Catt Union and Jason Robinsn (League) both in England's world cup winning side down under
Stuart Barnes still talking utter bollox, strange but very true. This was a great advert for both codes, Bath did well considering this is their version of the game, Wigan I think could have won this, a few basic errors cost them, hardly surprising really, but what a day out for the fans. I played union as a hooker but love watching RL, the other game in this series was brilliant!
Stuart Barnes talking bollox isn't a surprise
A fair number of future England union internationals playing for Wigan here.
very true , including Robinson
Carl M certainly the pick of the bunch!
These two matches were maybe the only times I have wanted Wigan to win!
Magical tries at 12.18 and 17.30 by Wigan. A joy to see for fans of either code.
For a game that is notoriously shit for scrums ATM ,Wigan showed how simple scrummaging can be ! Yes they gave a few penalty tries away,but no resets and no collapsing ! Fair play
It was mostly uncontested
Forward pass. Penalty try. Referee - Whistle in the pocket son.
Seeing Wigan run from everywhere was impressive but seeing them keep the scrums up even when they were going backwards at a rate of knots was even more so. Any Union team now would drop the scrum immediately and take the penalty. Coaches seem to like that sort of cynical play but as a fan I'd prefer to watch teams play like Wigan (yes I know they were heavily beaten...still though).
LOL, scrum was weakened so Wigan boy wouldn't get squashed too much 😂
Having tried my hand at both codes, I can say that if given a shot, league forwards would run rings around union ones. I had never tried union until the day I scored three tries against lads who had been playing years and then as a league prop forward scored a full length try of my own. I also feel league as a faster more skilled game is more interesting. Union is far too kick-orientated. With all that said I'd love this to be a regular maybe once every two year fixture, similar to how the WCC is in league, get the champions of both codes together for two games and see how the clubs fair. Perhaps even make it a charity thing.
Sam Burgess is a prop or lock in league but would never be a 1st or 2nd row forward in a Union squad. Burgess could have been a decent Union flanker given time, but played at centre in union. Henry Paul sometimes played loose forward in League but was a centre/fly half when he switched codes.
Thanks to the contested set piece and breakdown in Union there's not much equivalence between the front row and second row forwards between the two codes, nearly all of the league players in those positions would be flankers or centres in Union.
@@robw7676 Exception to this is Brad Thorn. Greatest cross code player ever in my opinion because he was the only one to do it in the front five at second row.
You superstar...I call bullshit though lol
@@RatzaChewy Agree. Big Brad is a legend.
Good story bro. Where did you play? I played flanker in union. When my mate asked me to play league for his team I couldn't understand why 90%of the players were just standing around watching 4 -6 players only ever playing the game at any time
The core skills between the two sides is STARK. Wigan lightyears ahead
Bath won. Lol
@@NoName-hg6cc the league game was embarrassing. Naturally bath would win at union but league as a game has a higher level of core rugby skills hence union sides consistently hire league coaches (plus the dollar)
@@cauliflowerpete616 Union too was embarrassing for Wigan.
Core skills? Depends. Passing perhaps. But scumming, rucking, mauling, kicking etc...no.
That's why League foward rarely play as fowards in Union
I'd suggest Brian Campsall, the referee, should have stuck to his day job - a secondary school games teacher. Unfortunately, as I know from first hand experience, he was crap at that as well.
What, you were under his tutelage?
How often did he whistle?
What a great occasion that was. Brilliant to be there. Make rugby one.
I was there watching this, 1st time i seen it since, i forgot how heavy Bath Scored I thought it was a bit closer, but yes they should do it again
Refs bring them back for a forward pass.. lol the irony!😂😂😂
Bring it back with the best NRL team and best super rugby team
storm vs saders
A union side is better at union. A league side is better at league. And that's all that was ascertained.
Thank you all for your money buying tickets.
Ha ha. My thoughts exactly. How about an AFL vs Gaelic football match? Probably equally pointless.
@@shanefelkel9966 At least they have international rules games combining the two sports to one. Compromises for both and they meet at the middle rules wise
Brad Thorn is the only player to master both codes on the forwards
No what about Ray Price
Price only played 7 tests, Thorn played over 50
What about Jonathan Edwards and Wendall Sailor, won the league World Cup and got to the final in the union one, and could’ve won it.
@@floydkingi4364 Ray Price only played 7 union tests as he signed with Parramatta eels, he would've played a lot more otherwise, he wasn't called Mr Perpetual motion for nothing.
To Me ,A WIGAN RLFC FAN 58YEARS , THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A RIVALRY, BETWEEN THE CODES , LEAGUE HARDER THAN UNION ,and vice versa! I wish i had a tenner fo every time ive argued , saying League is Tougher WHEN THE FACT IS ,THEY ARE AS TOUGH AS EACHOTHER IN THEIR OWN WAYS ,I THINK LEAGUE AND UNION ,HAVE REALISED THIS ,AND NOW HELP EACHOTHER OUT ,WITH GAMES LIKE BATH V WIGAN ,! AND COACHES FROM LEAGUE TO UNION ,ARE THRIVING , ESPECIALLY ON FITNESS LEVEL,S ! ALSO THE FANS ,BOTH CODES ,ARE 2ND TO NONE ,BOTH THERE FOR THE FAMILY FRIENDLY , ATMOSPHERE! Rugby United ,is my motto ,Cos lets face it WE IS ALL DAFT AS EACHOTHER
Interesting that Wigan showed up quite a better better than Bath had had in the League match as the Wigan players were hardened professionals where as the Bath guys would have been amateurs until a few months before this.
The Bath guys were technically amateur but in reality were full time and paid through sponsorships. That was a big part of the problem - some Union players like Jeremy Guscott 'earned' far more than the best paid UK League players. Thankfully that all changed.
Possibly because a few of Wigan's players were union players originally (offiah, quinnell, tuigamala,I imagine Henry Paul must have played union growing up in NZ), but to be fair they did do quite well,if it had been uncontested scrums it could have been pretty even
@@alanpelz a lot of the wigan side were top union player who crossed codes to earn cash as union wasn't professional not to mention the bath side is amateur. A better representation would be the storm vs crusaders now.
@@mitcholeary1526 Actually to be fair only a couple of Wigan players were from Union at the time - and though technically amateur Union players at the time were paid through different means (for example a high paid job at a big company that they never did anything for other than attend the occasional public event) many of them highly paid. I am a league fan but not a union hater to be clear - at the time these two teams were barnstorming teams and all players were in the top pay bracket :-)
@@deepanalysispodcast Just send through the evidence of (for example a high paid job at a big company that they never did anything for other than attend the occasional public event) cheers
Both codes are far better than football. Saints supporter who lived in Liverpool but who was born in Buckinghamshire.
I like both codes but prefer union. Ive never quite understood the league saying union is stop start. To me league is stop start. Guess its in the eye of the beholder.
When you get a three test series between Wales v Australia and the most time the ball was in play was 35 minutes in one test, that might be why.
@@lapalad In theory, Union is free flowing because the ball has to be released in the tackle but it doesn't take a genius to figure out this will inevitably lead to penalties being incurred - thus in practice Union is more stop-start.
@@keats6431 If I paid for a ticket to a sport that goes for 80 minutes I would like to see at least 70 minutes of play, not half that amount.
@@lapalad Agreed.
The irony of that. League is just "tackle, rest, reset x5 then kick and pray". It's so repetitive. Union has so much more variety on how to play the game.
Shame that Guscott chickened out of these games. They were good fun to watch.
Guscott was a knob
He didn't "chicken out" he was injured anyway so couldn't play.
@@metallicat72 Injured himself putting his socks on did he?
The Bath team thought it was the best they'd played all season. Lol
Bath being awarded penalty after penalty. Wigan denied possession for most of the game and get a perfectly good try disallowed. Despite that they still win the second half. It would be interesting to have a rematch. But looking at the spectacular quality and sheer athleticism RL over the last few years (especially with amazing mid-air corner finishes) RL would take some beating. RU has got faster and fitter but the biggest factor for me is (and always has been) that RL has to be fitter as the ball is in play far longer than RU with its stop-start technical nature. RU the ball is typically in play for 35 out of 80 minutes (far longer than it used to be! But in RL the average is 50 minutes (nearly 50% longer)
You forget about the rolling maul. League ball carriers go high into the tackle because they want to suck players into it. In union they would just get held up and turned over.
Union is a much stronger sport, when I say that I mean physically, everyone forgets about mauls, scrums, rucks and just the fact that Union has bigger players, yes Union runs less, but Union has more skill and patience than League, and Brains are a lot more important in Union
@@DJ-ce3hq I disagree with just about everything you say except yawnion players are bigger. As for brains, these are surgically removed from every yawnion forward as soon as he shows any promise. Your comment is redolent of yawnion snobbery.
MopTop Baku okay, doesn’t matter though, you probably aren’t smart enough to understand Union
D J Kick and clap. There, I understand it.
I'd love to see England v England?
What a great idea.
England would win
@@homeone4054 can't even remember posting this haha?
@@homeone4054 Look out, we've got a smartass over here 😂
Shaun with the sly disses in the post game interview
Love love to see All Blacks playing against RL New Zealand
Bloody Stuart Bloody Barnes!!
We was a lot better at Union than Bath was at League.
League is the superiour format. Not even in question.
Looks around the globe... sure. League is way superior lmao.
happyspanners
The biggest rugby market in the world (Australia, is dominated by league)
The biggest and best league (NRL) league.
Union isn't as 'international' as everyone makes out.
You've got the home nations, NZ, France and SA on world level, union will be dead in 10 years in Australia.
Whereas league has Australia, England NZ and Tonga.
Not really that different is it, leagues also the national sport of PNG.
@@jamestodd1104 hahahaha
Alfa&Omega 00000 half of those aren’t world level.
Australia NZ England Scotland wales ireland Png France Fiji Tonga Samoa USA Canada Lebanon. If you want to name all half decent sides
Alfa&Omega 00000 I think they have all made a World Cup quarter final.
This game now would be a blood bath
Yep, scrums would be downright dangerous for a league team now, and they'd get completely ragdolled at the ruck.
ministryOFmuff agreed. And English union is now so slow in the backs. Would be a slaughter at either side.
50-0
50-50
incredibly crooked refereeing
I don't think its so bad on another look, save for that forward pass. Campsall was quite pedantic but RU is frustratingly technical when it comes to penalties and the ref blowing the whistle.
They’re two different sports! Ludicrous. Commentators are dinosaurs as well.
Wigan's kicker reminds me of someone.....
Funny that, so does the winger, both of the half backs and a centre. Must have made a good impression.
I think the ref helped Bath quite a bit. Let’s face it Maurice Lindsay promised Bath that they wouldn’t put 100 on them during the League game and to win in their own code, Bath took a lot of penalties and showed minimal flair.
Sane can be said for the league match, ref help Wigan
Bath destroyed wigan despite the depowered scrums, rucks and mauls
Pretty ordinary from Bath. Compare this match with the return fixture where Wigan just rip Bath a new one - Wigan stand out for their fight and their attitude.
No, Wigan won in a simpler game due to having better fitness and different rules. Pretty normal
Bath won because of better tactics and strength
This series of games was really interesting, though proved little.
I remember at the first scrum (Graham Dawe was wearing white boots I think just to to take the piss out of the League Primas) the front rows popped up and the Wigan guys were going nuts whilst the Bath guys were laughing - would love to have known what was said to stir it up!
I would not like to tell Graham dawe not to wear white boots he is known for being hard as nails
Jason Richards is that why O'Connor fucking smashed him?
if played today the score would be the same as the league score was. Wigan won the middlesex 7s that yr. no league team would win it now.
Of course they would. Union backs don't have the skill level and pace of league backs. Forwards can't really be compared
James Todd they actually have more skill and pace, and size too. Much better kicking game, and better defence against massive men
the best trys in the game were scored by Wigan.
Doesn't matter when they scored less tries though
Moral victory for League, overall, methinks.
AAHAHAHAHA nah, league match was a moral victory for Union
You guys do know that Bath weren't really scrummaging against Wigan in this?
Great game 🏉 👊
The Wigan guys are bigger, fitter and much stronger. Interestingly, the second half was 19-19 (a draw) and if they played again it's not unlikely that Wigan would win under Union rules. Bath just collected as many points as possible in the first half knowing that they did not have the fitness to compete.
Rugby League is tougher: harder (and more!) tackles, fewer men, having to keep moving to hold the line (it's non-stop) whereas Rugby Union is far more complex with more stoppages and pauses in play. Although I personally preferred to play Union, I admit League is not only harder (to play) but also easier for a non-rugby person to understand, whereas rugby union is just complicated. That said, I still prefer union.
7 tries to 3.
League boys couldn't win one scrum despite it being soften up
I mean....
@@NoName-hg6cc
They aren't well versed at scrums, it isn't part of the League game. Scums need skill and training to the point where they have scrum machines (no need for it in League), never under-estimate anyone, especially those who are better trained at it.
Guscott the shithouse coward!!!Scared stiff of facing tuigamala!Like the commentator says,he should of played!!!Chickened out,hahaha!!!
MrWarriors64 I remember he bottled it.
Guscott is no coward, and it's wrong of you to say so. Did it occur to you that he'd played against Tuigamala many times over the course of his career, including with the British Lions against the All Blacks in 1993 (well before this game)? Guscott was a great player, and wasn't afraid of anyone. Ten out of ten people would chose to have Lomu in their team over Tuigamala, and Guscott played against Lomu many times too.
In all honesty, as pretty much the best league club team of the time, Wigan should have been playing either Auckland, Northern Transvaal or Queensland.
I'd say the union scoreline would've blown out to eighty points or more. The league game scoreline would've been like 80-25. Those Kiwi and Aussie players would have been more familiar with league.
There's loads of NRL club sides better than Wigan were, over the years, this isnt even the the best Wigan side, the side of 6 or 7 yrs before was better, Gregory, Lydon, Goodway, West, Bell and probably THE highest quality British Rugby Player of all time (either code ) Ellery Hanley
Similar basics but at the same time very different
Haviing played both codes, wigan, widnes, leigh and union for Guilldford and Petersfield. The game for me was better playing league. Union is more of a kicking game whilst rugby more running. Great union and great league players would be great at both codes as they have natural talent. But i enjoyed the game and the clubs have great coaches and training.Union is much better at looking after their players especially being amateur.
Such biased officiating. There was no way they were gona allow Wigan to get a sniff.
😂😂😂😂 league refereeing was horrendous but Bath fought on without complaining
bring it back it great
They should come up with a compromise rules rugby and play this game again.
There is a game called hybrid rugby which has been trialled in Australia, a few games have been played between junior level union and league teams. Interesting hybrid rules but ultimately I don't think it will take off. People either mainly like tea or coffee but not both in the same mug. The interest in the old games between Wigan and Bath and the 7s games was watching a team play a sport it had largely never played before, although Wigan had Quinnell, Tuigamala, Offiah, Tatupou, Edwards all of whom had played union either at school, club or representative level. Bath had no one who had played rugby league before
@@homeone4054 I have said before, at junior level in England, union and league should combine because the skills of running, passing and defensive lines are the same. Scrummaging and lineouts can come much later. I know it won't happen though, but it should.
It’s also been played half and half between St Helens and......I want to say Sale? A few years ago now. Aggregate score was used if I remember. But it doesn’t really work today. Back in 1996 union was not, or was only just turned, professional. In contrast to that Wigan had been full time for some years which could not be said of all top rugby league clubs even at that time. Today, you would have to have uncontested scrums as the specialist positions to not exist in RL, so it wouldn’t really work.
Wigan pretty much had the cream of the crop because there was no salary cap at that stage. It would have been interesting if Bath had that luxury.
You think union boys weren't taking any money? All the big union talents wouldnt have stuck around if that was true. Its still the pay for the boys now but its just gatekept by english selection
This was all part of the union game going pro and it was two fingers up to the old farts who were still stuck in the late Victorian.
said it before say it again union snobbery union is not the varied sport they make out stops far to much for penaltys noone knows what half are for league is the better game
C'RON. IT'S VERY GOOD BROTHER BOOK
Wigan found the loophole in the second half. Just throw the ball about, and don't get tackled.
Jonah lomu that's all I'm gonna say
Iain is bang on. Lomu is a machine, it is of course widely known he grew up playing league. He was spotted by New Zealand sevens star Eric Rush and was invited to try sevens and then union.
One man
Lomu lived in Inga's shadow
Jonah Lomu was an ex league player in NZ
I loved rugby then. When men could be men. 👊🏻👊🏻
It was always going to be tough for Wigan but totally impossible with that referee!!
League was always going to be impossible for Baths. And referee didn't help
Did you not see the fair try taken off Wigan??
@@oz5565 Minute? Beside, the score was 44-19. One try more wouldn't have add anything much
And what was the score in the Rugby league game?? And you're blaming the referee???
@@oz5565 And the score for this game? Yet you blame the referee?
Wigan look as clueless as Bath did playing league....except in broken play with the ball in hand.
fullswing wow jesus
I was there and Bath made it as open a game as possible no kicking for touch and lineouts but no taking it away from Wigan they were an awesome team as the aggregate score over both matches reflected .
Sounds a bit bitter in the interview does Shawn
Wigan another 3: weeks learning union n they'd win easily, look at what's happened, Edwards, Farrell, learning union how the game should be played, a fact , Connolly no wonder guscott wimped out Connolly was the silent assassin,
The scrums in both codes have been a joke for decades. An experimental amalgam of the two codes would probably make for interesting viewing. For me, Union is too scrappy with too much reliance on kicking, mainly due to fear of being tackled and losing possession in their own half. Three points for penalties and drop goals in Union is too many, as it enables defensive teams to play for penalties and win with negative tactics.
They need to dilute the importance of the scrum, either by reducing their numbers (give free kicks instead for some offences rather than penalties, or remove the right for the scrum to be called for certain penalties) and they need to have the clock off until the ball leaves the scrum half's hands at the put in. There is so much time wasting at every scrum before it even forms and the scrum isn't supposed to move until the ball is in. If there are "offences" before the ball goes in, it doesn't matter. They will simply have to get it right with the clock off until they do. If the forwards want to bugger around then they should do it on their own time.
Scrum in Union is not a joke. To me, league is too boring, just running, tackling and reset. No tactics, no strategies, just running. 1 point for drop goal? REALLY?
@@homeone4054 No, League should stop being so simple and boring. It's just running and being tackle, if you want to play in the field like when you were 5 you can, but keep rugby out of it, that has little to do with rugby
@@NoName-hg6cc I see no reason to change what I wrote 7 months ago.
@@portcullis5622 And I see no fact that support what you wrote. My points stand
Eh, League would have been better, if it wasn't for all those scrums, rucks, maul, line-outs, kicking and that "contest the ball" thing....
And the ball is hardly in play for 40 minutes!
@@lapalad Did you understand my comment?
@@NoName-hg6cc Did you understand mine??
@@lapalad I do. I think so. Mine was Ironic btw
@@NoName-hg6cc My was too
Wheres the League part come in ??
Don Ramsay the league game was played about 3 weeks earlier.
Well who won that game? Obviously bath are expected to win this game.i was expecting the second half to be play the ball
@@michaelfox7856 Wigan by a landslide in the League match
ITS UNION V LEAGUE COURSE THE LINESMAN GOING TO GO AGAINST WIGAN
I know mate,, it's only my opinion pal.
Lets put things in perspective,Wigan were the reigning world club champions after beating Brisbane meaning they were the best club in the world now compare that to Bath who were only the best in the NH but everyone knows the SH dominate rugby.Bath would've been smashed by teams like the Crusaders,Blues,Reds,Sharks and Bulls who were the best SH provinces then so it's an unfair comparison,the best league club in the world against the best union club only in the NH.I guarantee the results would've been totally different had Wigan played the SH champions the Blues who were stacked with All blacks including Jonah Lomu in his prime.The Blues would've been competitive in the league but would've destroyed Wigan in union.
Interesting point. What was the Blues line up in mid 1996? Similar to the proposal to have the All Blacks play the Wallabies a few years ago. Would be good to see but unlikely to happen.
@@homeone4054 ,The Blues were stacked with All Blacks including Jonah Lomu in his prime and they were the super rugby champions.
@@homeone4054 Jonah Lomu,Eronie Clarke,Carlos Spencer, Zinzan Brooke,Michael Jones and Sean Fitzpatrick.This was the worst showcase for this spectacle you had the best league club side in the world who were professionals taking on the 15-20th best union club side who were amateurs.
@@mitcholeary1526 you forgot Charlie Riechelmann, Lee Stensness, Leo Falaniko, Joeli Vidiri, Junior Tonu'u, Olo Brown, Craig Dowd, Sean Fitzpatrick, etc
@@augustineminimbi5668 I just listed some well known names and I said Fitzpatrick.
Bradford till I die
league is american football, union canadian football bigger pitch extra players a more expansive game
It's the other way around, union is more akin to gridiron than ever.
Union mentality is like a traditionally corny monocracy. Its embarrassing to share the same name.
Nothing proved in the end, the aggregate score of 101 v 50 showed that it was 50/50.
How can you say that when there are more points given in the union game? And the league side has clearly score double on aggregate.
@@The123dannyd This is my point, I'm parodying the Union commenters in this comment section.
@@PomBare didn't sale beat st helens a couple of years later?
@@gus-qj2mp Yes I went to that game, the weather was torrential so Sale spent the whole Union half forming rucks and driving it the whole length of the field with the ball up the jumper, barely a pass was made it was a farce. The fact that Saints won the 2nd half 39 - 0 throwing the ball around in those conditions was miraculous.
@@PomBare so who won?
Wigan easily won on Aggregate n the sevens enough said
the league is a hard game played by hard men
Too bad u guys can't play either game now
Love both codes but tbh union is a bit better sport in the terms of Rugby skills
😂 explain how please? By taking penalty kicks against every opportunity and playing kick and chase?
Which skills specifically ?
Best joke in these comments.
@@leecheetham6031 Scrummaging, rucking, mauling, goal kicking. RU specific skills I guess he means. RL consists of only 4 things thesedays since the NRL and Australian TV demanded the game be sped up and removed the last vestiges of competition for the ball apart from smashing someone's lights out: passing, tackling, 40/20s and goal kicking. The kicking out of hand in league thesedays is nowhere near as good as it was generally in the 90s/early 2000s when there were more genuine footballers in the game.
And yes been watching RL since the late 80s.
Fuck you inbred. League is far more skilful and faster and I played both to a good standard....you numpty😃
The haves V the have nots
union is just far better than league!!
+John Kelly you did see the score when they played each other in League ...80 something - 2
Manwell Haumu I prefer league but nowadays a top union side would probably beat a top league side in something like this.
***** Nah they won't they will be strong in their respective sports ..the score line will be a lot closer but thats about it
Manwell Haumu The league team would still most likely win under league rules but nowadays I think the union game would be a much bigger mismatch than the league game. Union teams have borrowed a lot tactically from league since this happened, and in terms of athleticism and ball skills union players generally match up well with league now, which wasnt the case at all back when this vid happened. I honestly think the ABs could probably even pick up a few wins against NRL and Super League teams under league rules today.
***** It may seem an easy game ..but having to get back the required 10 will be were they struggle as they don't have to do any of that because of the quickness around the ruck area they will struggle with ..
Look who showed all the skills and entertainment while playing the oppositions own game. Would have been even closer if not for the clearly biased refereeing.
"WoULD HAvE BeeN CloSE iF ThERE WAsN'T that balL ConTesT tHinG"
If it wasn't for the biased referee would have league won its game? Doubt it
@@NoName-hg6cc Try again in English.
@@merrickforrester5238 Fix your grammar
@@NoName-hg6cc No grammatical errors with my posts Mush. Unlike your unhinged incoherent warblings. What a tit.
@@merrickforrester5238No mistakes in mine. Unlike your cavemen's English.
What a pillock 😂
I know mate,, it's only my opinion pal.