Seems more than close enough to make up the difference with a slight upper mid boost and a touch of saturation in the box if the end goal is an SLO tone in a mix. The existing Soldano plugin (I think from Plugin Alliance) was extremely close too. Good stuff.
I really couldn't tell much of a difference. When isolated, I liked the sizzle of the real tube amp, but overall the Helix was maybe 5 or 10% more pleasing to my ears. Another reason I love my Helix :) It's got everything I need and plenty more!
The real amp sounds a bit more open and a tiny bit more scooped, I guess the helix had the mids maybe a tad more up on the EQ. After all it's hard to match the knob settings of the real amp with the sliders of the modeler, so there might be some difference in the settings. I'd say you could add more mids on the real amp in the tonestack, but you could not add more sizzle on top of the helix via the tone stack. So I'd pick the real amp if money wasn't a factor!
You did a great job dialing in the helix. I listened to the entire demo eyes closed and tried to "guess" when the real vs. helix switched and couldn't tell!
Crazy, because I definitely preferred the openness of B. I sort of convinced myself that A must be the Stomp, because how could I possibly be preferring the modeling over the real amp. But there ya go, it's rarely a "which is better?" question, but a "which do you LIKE better?" question. Just got a Stomp XL a couple weeks ago and feeling pretty good about it.
It’s definitely close. I have spent days trying to get my digital modeling units (HX stomp, GT1000, QC) and they all get really close, but when I A/B them side by side with my real Soldano head, it’s still a noticeable difference. The real amp has a lot more low end clarity, and a more 3D sound in the room. But that doesn’t come through in a recording, so it doesn’t matter to most listeners. The only device I’ve ever found that gets super close is the Synergy SLO preamp, which makes sense since that unit is tube based rather than digital, and Mike Soldano himself designed the Synergy SLO unit. But most of the digital units get you close enough that you won’t tell in a mix. It’s more noticeable when you’re playing them side by side in the same room. (more of a feel difference)
>The real amp has a lot more low end clarity, and a more 3D sound in the room. What you're talking about is the dynamic range coming from being close to a guitar cab. 0.01% of people listen to that, most music people listen to is recorded so it doesn't matter.
Isolated I think I prefer the real amp, and I like more how it responds in the low mid area (I'm being almost psychotic here), but man in the mix I preferred the Helix. The reality is that, sadly, the only thing that makes the real amp better is the feel when playing it. Hearing it, it makes you wonder what's the future of real tube amps...
I’ve been saying this for a while. In a mix, or a live situation, there’s no difference. I’ve been mixing guitar based music long enough to know that. Many, and I mean many times, very experienced tube amp purists haven’t been able to differentiate in a blind A/B comparison. But, the “feel” of a tube amp is a real and tangible thing. Is that feel worth what a high end tube amp costs? That’s up to the consumer.
Crazy, right? I did prefer B in the mix but A isolated. B sounds slightly muddy isolated but sits well in the mix and feels like a bigger low end. A has more bite isolated but feels a bit less clear in the mix.
This video made me want to revisit it. When I got the HX Stomp it was my go to amp since it felt like a direct port from the Pod HD I played until then but I've since moved on to other models. Still it sounds amazing and close to the real thing from what I hear
They both sounded good, very similar, and I couldn't even hazard a guess which was which in the blind tests. But, when I could see the units identified, I did hear something I "fixed" on my listening setup with my HX Stomp. I listen/play through Monitoring Headphones. I take the Left and Right outputs of the HX Stomp and run them into separate Channel Strips on my Hardware DAW. Then I "Hard Pan" one Strip left and the other right. The result is a wider sound stage that I much prefer with headphones, and what I think I noticed in the Blind Test. Thanks
The Soldano has more upper midrange presence and top end sizzle to my ear, but the Helix still has a lot of the character in there. Great work John! All 3 SLO models in the Helix are some of my favorite amp models in Helix to this day. The Crunch channel (the amp model and the real amp channel) is super underrated. By the way, running the Master low on the Helix was definitely the right move - that was a gamechanger revelation for me in getting the Helix models to have more 'air' and sizzle in the highs. Prevailing wisdom on the SLO is that is opens up around 6 on the master volume, but this just makes the Helix sound too tubby ime. For anyone trying to get this model to work for them, don't be afraid to run the Master lower than you might on other models and compensate with the Channel Volume.
TBH, the more I mess around with my HX Stomp, the more I feel like the true weakness is driven power amp simulation. Considering how it's more complex with reactive impedance and all that, I'm not surprised. And really it doesn't seem to make a huge difference in most cases. Sounds pretty damn sick after all :')
Yep I totally agree with the sentiment here as a Helix user for several years now in regards to the poweramp and master control settings 100%. It's the one thing that never really responds accurately, which isn't a surprise. ( I say that as a Helix lover) I've almost always fond that lowering that master volume yields better results without it getting incredibly flubby. Even models like the Moon amps (prob my most used) where the master and poweramp distortion is a big deal, you still run into this quirk imo. It's also the one thing that seems to define the slight lack of bite to the attack or feeling of body to some sounds. In all though, sounds fantastic...
@@void_snw Right, the Master control on most amp models can really change the tone, and more isn't always better! On certain models, having the Master too high can accentuate some lower midrange 'flub' frequencies and shave off sizzle/presence/air. I don't think this is exclusive to Helix at all though, I hear this effect in shootouts with the QC all the time. I'm no expert, but I suspect you're right though that there's something about the impedance curve and the modeled interaction between virtual power amp and speaker that causes these things. I'm firmly a modeling fan however, I don't find these small differences matter that much in musical contexts and I genuinely think this stuff is the future and will only get better. I care less and less about the models being 'accurate recreations' and moreso care if the sounds themselves are interesting, inspiring, interactive, and sit within a ballpark of the history of recorded guitar tones. Don't care if it sounds exactly like the real thing, just that it sounds at least as good as it to my ears. John said it well that it doesn't sound exactly like the SLO, but basically sounds like a different version of the same kind of vibe.
I was surprised that B wasn't the real amp... Both sound very close. I like to have a bit more low-end in the sound...so I would adjust the eq anyway...
Fascinating! I like where the real amp sits in the mix. More in the low mids than in the high mids, as with the helix. Would be interesting to hear the helix with eq matching to the real thing. Since people who can't afford the real thing, would most likely take care of the pokiness and other things with an eq, to make it sound the best it can.
Well they do sound very alike indeed! I hear a slight "wider" stereo image in the Soldano sounds...slightly more narrow in HX Stomp. But could not tell that in the middle of the mix!
I'll take the Helix. Can't put the SLO parameters on controllers for variable modulation or snapshots for toggling different variant settings. And in the mix they were near identical. Also, in isolation, the Helix was already where I'd still try to dial in the sound of the real amp w/outboard EQ.
It's pretty close, but I like the real SLO30 more as well. Just a bit nicer mids and top end. Also the lows are a little slower on the chugs, which works better for this demo track. Awesome comparison. .
I guessed exactly opposite bc B sounded better to me in the mix. Isolated I could hear that A had the more raw character, as you said, which did give it something. So kudos to Helix I assume 😊
Obvious differences aside...different modeled amp and digital vs. real amp...it's amazing to hear the similar characteristics in the Helix Model...interesting!
Pausing it at 5:04, man the difference is microscopic. I'm listening on Kali monitors and maybe by a hair I can hear a difference but it really doesn't matter. I think A is the Soldano amp but I wouldn't bet any money on the that. The Line 6 sounds really good which ever one it is lol, they've come a long way since the Spider 2.
I can hear a little more difference in the isolated tracks and do like the Soldano better but not $3000 better, the Line 6 still sounds great and in the mix there is no clear winner, they're both great.
Wow much closer than I expected. I guessed the Soldano was A as I felt I heard more string separation and that characteristic mid growl the real amp has - just a little more aggressive and angrier, which I love. Also a little more depth in A. For me the real difference though is not as much sonically but more the feel and the response of each.. and which inspires your playing more.
Never thought I'd say this but in this specific example, I preferred the Helix (B).. it's hard to put it into words, other than to say it sounded more mellow to me and I preferred that for these specific riffs. I'm talking about the treble or upper mids I guess. They both sounded good in terms of sounding real or whatever. It was just an EQ preference for these riffs. I generally prefer brighter or more scooped sounds, sharper sounds.. just not in this case. Overall.. I love Soldano amps. I especially the idea of building or tweaking clones. I like to float between Soldano and the Dual Recs.. and like to have switches to get both sounds. It's nice to know there are some decent Soldano sounds in the digital world. With guitar in hand, I probably would have preferred the feel of the real amp but hearing the recordings.. both sounded good. Also playing through a cab, I probably would have preferred a real amp, but using IR equalizes things a bit.
As usual, the top end is not as refined on the modeler. Still sounds good to me. I bet you could be ok with different IRs. Do you ever try using the global eq in these shoot out?
Thanks for doing this. I guessed correct, but with a strong emphasis on *guess* because I sincerely could not tell :o Please tell me, was the amp more responsive? Do you feel a difference when actually playing? I always wonder about the latency of the FX stomp compared to real amps.
Listening to the comparison, there seems to be a significant difference in headroom, but the Helix is also pretty close! （using a translator, so sorry if my English is weird）
I could tell the one with more high end and a mid cut was the helix. That seems to be a footprint they leave behind. Each modeler seems to for that matter.
I think... I love amp sims. Each one of them. Since POD Farm to the most new. Amp sim + IR (Ownhammer, of course 😉) + EQ = The glory. (sorry for my english, I'm from Argentina)
I thought, before watching the results, that A was the real amp based on where you have the presence knob set. my SLO100 needs the presence turned up pretty high to sound similar to this helix tone.
My guess would be A is the real SLO because of the bass response, but I would need to hear isolated tracks since the presence is typically the dead giveaway.
@@SonicDriveStudio thanks, I wrote this comment before seeing the reveal :). Once I heard the isolated tracks it was definitely even easier to tell. Great video.
To the average passive listener it will always be about the music (and your music is great here as usual), not the slight differences in sound from one amp or model to the other.
B sounds great but has an ugly top end compared to A (cleaner top end). What interface are you using to record through native helix? I think that with a better pre and converter the sound in helix can be better.
You should still watch the video because there’s useful information and opinions on the gear, but for those looking for the short answer: Yes, the Helix can do the SLO tone very well, but to be truly 1:1 will need a slight 2500-3200 boost in the upper midsection and some mild additional saturation in your mix. The end results are indistinguishable from each other to most ears.
@@SonicDriveStudio I totally agree if we’re only using our ears, and not measuring the output waves with a spectrum analyzer. But if you’re truly trying to match the amp to the Helix modeling based on the output, the helix will sound and look (on the analyzer) nearly identical with the slight upper mid boost and some added saturation or very mild harmonic distortion to add more density to the waveforms. I love your videos. You’re extremely good at dialing in similar tones with your ears alone. So while agree that we all have different ears, some of us (you) are really talented when it comes to matching by ear. Some others need to use reference and analysis tooling to ensure the waves are truly matched or as close as possible. You can compare the differences by using the Fourier transform and some subtractive math. Once the leftover signal is nearly non-existent, it will guarantee a true audible match. No ears needed. A completely deaf person can achieve it. Luckily for us, our ears work.. but it’s often nice to analyze and prove to ourselves that our ears are accurate. Or to some maybe the exactness of the match isn’t as important as just getting a close enough vibe. I think the Helix sounds more like a real amp than the plugin did to me.. but I’m not sure what amount of that is from chosen IRs etc.. Decades ago, I heard an amazing early 80s model JCM-800 with some special tube converters or modifiers of some sort. I believe they were called “Yellow Jackets” or similar. Somehow they made a Marshall 800 sound exactly like an SLO-100. Would love to find those some day, but these smaller Soldanos seem worthy of a purchase for studio use. If you don’t mind me asking, what drum software instrument to you do your drum midi with? 🍻
It is not my favorite sound too, but I was right that the A is the real amp. Real amps in comparison to sims sound darker, which is more pleasant to listen for prolonged time, but that is personal for me. The simulation is like already full of everything, but that brighter addition/difference it has, probably around 1kHz or 5kHz, is so constantly present, it doesn't change its nature based on where you play on the guitar and it feels like it is masking more important parts of the sound.
They both sound close, but I think A is the amp. It's more controlled and less blown out sounding. I feel like I heard the biggest difference in chords.
Toss some upwards expansion on the Helix, and it would be a lot harder to tell the difference between the two of them. I have to say that for a cheap box that can model just about anything, if it were live in a loud mix, no one would ever know the difference, because both would be compressed to death at the end of the live mix anyways.
Thoughts from blind listening: A sounds a little scooped and much tighter. It leaves some empty space in the mix, which I haven't decided if I like. B sounds stuffy, loose, and washes out in the mix. If you wanted to fill out space, it'd be the better pick. I like the sound of A more than B in isolation, but in a mix it doesn't seem like the choice is so obvious. Very close overall though.
Nice, could tell amp and helix apart through my phones speakers, but more by prejudice than knowledge. Heard difference in a more sizzely quality and some more composed midrange and guessed correctly - a is amp and b is helix. I'm kinda proud tbh 🙃💩
Man… the first time it switched from A to B I thought “oooo I like how it opened”. Then as the demo went on I started to think “oh crap. I think B is the Helix and I’m supposed to like A.” It is what it is I guess.
A is real while B is the Helix. My guess is because the amp feels a bit looser while the modeler sounds tighter in the low end. The characteristics are similar, but also different factors between what's in this current Soldano amp vs the modeler. In a mix, both of them sounds great. If you can afford an actual Soldano, fucking do it. If you can't but still want that Soldano sound, plugins nowadays are getting closer and closer to the real thing and the major amp sim companies have a Soldano modeler.
Great demo but i think while recording and compressing the record for UA-cam, it lost the sound details. For me no difference at all to my ears. I was listening to an iPad from 2018.
the difference is non existent in the mix but it is definitely noticeable when isolated but only slightly. HX stomp sounded a bit flubby but very slightly.
Both sounded great. For months I used that model in the Helix as my main sound with my 90s rock cover band but always found something strange about the top end that I couldn't fix with any amount of EQ'ing or IR swapping. Ended up switching to the Friedman models and never looked back.
okay maybe i'm wrong, but i'm damn sure B is the real soldano, because there's really pronounced twang in the upper midrange which i also noticed watching the review of the amp, and also midrange is overall really complex and "three-dimentional", A is a bit dull in comparison
whoa, gotta say helix is nuts in the mix, really didn't expect that, but when soloed you really can hear soldano shine (also it seems logical that new soldano is more flat in the midrange because of this v30 thing)
What i took from this is...HX is how old niw and yet the tones are killer 🔥 i cannot give a tube amp any justice to buy these days. Coming from a ex tube snob lol
Real Amp better dynamic and more open bright top end, also IMO a bit diff voicing between Amp and Helix. Prefered more Real Amp in this case. Another thing is how both react on eq in a mix on limiter in a master chain etc... Its all about this small but important things.
I thought the real amp sounded a bit more open while the helix sounded a bit more compressed. Overall i prefer the tone of the real amp, though the helix sounds a bit nore 'tidy' and forward in the mix.
My guess: A = real amp, B = Helix. Edit: Hah! I was right. The Helix always sounds a little dry and there is no way to get a proper wet sounding overdrive. I tried virtually everything, from various EQ settings to custom IR's. Nothing really worked, so I sold mine and bought another modeller. 🙂
Despite of the recorded sound: Just yesterday I plugged in my old trusty Home made SLO clone. Now, compared to my hd500x may sound close, but the feeling, the way the amp interacts to your playstyle and fingers (even at vol level 2) has no point of comparison. So, for recording, yes. For real life still prefer real emotions, real feel. Only who have played a real tube amp with a real cab (mine is a first edition 4x12 5150 slant) can understand the difference. Tone wise, with the evolution of amp sims, not much difference. But the emotion isn't there.
Long time HX Stomp user, I could immediately tell the real amp from the modeler. The Stomp, and all Helix products for that matter, are mushy and lack attack, and the high mids are either pokey or blunt, depending on the amp. Real amp wins for me, but I honestly don’t care and keep using amp sims and modelers for recording and gigging. The difference is minimal, not worth the price difference in my opinion. And after years and years of lugging around heads and cabs, or finding the right spot for the microphone when recording, I’m not going back to real amps.
What do you guys think?
Seems more than close enough to make up the difference with a slight upper mid boost and a touch of saturation in the box if the end goal is an SLO tone in a mix. The existing Soldano plugin (I think from Plugin Alliance) was extremely close too. Good stuff.
I really couldn't tell much of a difference. When isolated, I liked the sizzle of the real tube amp, but overall the Helix was maybe 5 or 10% more pleasing to my ears. Another reason I love my Helix :) It's got everything I need and plenty more!
The real amp sounds a bit more open and a tiny bit more scooped, I guess the helix had the mids maybe a tad more up on the EQ. After all it's hard to match the knob settings of the real amp with the sliders of the modeler, so there might be some difference in the settings. I'd say you could add more mids on the real amp in the tonestack, but you could not add more sizzle on top of the helix via the tone stack. So I'd pick the real amp if money wasn't a factor!
I closed my eyes to listen and woke up the next day. Dig those speakers!
Very very small difference , slightly audible
This has proved how powerful the helix is. I definitely love my HX Stomp! Great content. Congrats
You did a great job dialing in the helix. I listened to the entire demo eyes closed and tried to "guess" when the real vs. helix switched and couldn't tell!
Crazy, because I definitely preferred the openness of B. I sort of convinced myself that A must be the Stomp, because how could I possibly be preferring the modeling over the real amp. But there ya go, it's rarely a "which is better?" question, but a "which do you LIKE better?" question. Just got a Stomp XL a couple weeks ago and feeling pretty good about it.
That was closer than I thought it would be considering the SLO 100 was a launch model for Helix.
It’s definitely close. I have spent days trying to get my digital modeling units (HX stomp, GT1000, QC) and they all get really close, but when I A/B them side by side with my real Soldano head, it’s still a noticeable difference. The real amp has a lot more low end clarity, and a more 3D sound in the room. But that doesn’t come through in a recording, so it doesn’t matter to most listeners.
The only device I’ve ever found that gets super close is the Synergy SLO preamp, which makes sense since that unit is tube based rather than digital, and Mike Soldano himself designed the Synergy SLO unit.
But most of the digital units get you close enough that you won’t tell in a mix. It’s more noticeable when you’re playing them side by side in the same room. (more of a feel difference)
>The real amp has a lot more low end clarity, and a more 3D sound in the room.
What you're talking about is the dynamic range coming from being close to a guitar cab. 0.01% of people listen to that, most music people listen to is recorded so it doesn't matter.
Isolated I think I prefer the real amp, and I like more how it responds in the low mid area (I'm being almost psychotic here), but man in the mix I preferred the Helix. The reality is that, sadly, the only thing that makes the real amp better is the feel when playing it. Hearing it, it makes you wonder what's the future of real tube amps...
I’ve been saying this for a while. In a mix, or a live situation, there’s no difference.
I’ve been mixing guitar based music long enough to know that.
Many, and I mean many times, very experienced tube amp purists haven’t been able to differentiate in a blind A/B comparison.
But, the “feel” of a tube amp is a real and tangible thing.
Is that feel worth what a high end tube amp costs? That’s up to the consumer.
Crazy, right? I did prefer B in the mix but A isolated. B sounds slightly muddy isolated but sits well in the mix and feels like a bigger low end. A has more bite isolated but feels a bit less clear in the mix.
I haven't been able to tell the differences honestly, congratulations for the great sounds you can get out of this machines.
great video as always, can't wait for the other modelers to see how they do!
This video made me want to revisit it. When I got the HX Stomp it was my go to amp since it felt like a direct port from the Pod HD I played until then but I've since moved on to other models. Still it sounds amazing and close to the real thing from what I hear
They both sounded good, very similar, and I couldn't even hazard a guess which was which in the blind tests. But, when I could see the units identified, I did hear something I "fixed" on my listening setup with my HX Stomp.
I listen/play through Monitoring Headphones. I take the Left and Right outputs of the HX Stomp and run them into separate Channel Strips on my Hardware DAW. Then I "Hard Pan" one Strip left and the other right. The result is a wider sound stage that I much prefer with headphones, and what I think I noticed in the Blind Test. Thanks
Really enjoy your vids and the fact you're on TGP. One thing I'd love to see is using stock Helix IRs. Tbh it's an area I struggle with.
The Soldano has more upper midrange presence and top end sizzle to my ear, but the Helix still has a lot of the character in there. Great work John!
All 3 SLO models in the Helix are some of my favorite amp models in Helix to this day. The Crunch channel (the amp model and the real amp channel) is super underrated.
By the way, running the Master low on the Helix was definitely the right move - that was a gamechanger revelation for me in getting the Helix models to have more 'air' and sizzle in the highs. Prevailing wisdom on the SLO is that is opens up around 6 on the master volume, but this just makes the Helix sound too tubby ime. For anyone trying to get this model to work for them, don't be afraid to run the Master lower than you might on other models and compensate with the Channel Volume.
The master control can be so powerful!
TBH, the more I mess around with my HX Stomp, the more I feel like the true weakness is driven power amp simulation. Considering how it's more complex with reactive impedance and all that, I'm not surprised. And really it doesn't seem to make a huge difference in most cases. Sounds pretty damn sick after all :')
Yep I totally agree with the sentiment here as a Helix user for several years now in regards to the poweramp and master control settings 100%.
It's the one thing that never really responds accurately, which isn't a surprise. ( I say that as a Helix lover) I've almost always fond that lowering that master volume yields better results without it getting incredibly flubby. Even models like the Moon amps (prob my most used) where the master and poweramp distortion is a big deal, you still run into this quirk imo. It's also the one thing that seems to define the slight lack of bite to the attack or feeling of body to some sounds. In all though, sounds fantastic...
@@void_snw Right, the Master control on most amp models can really change the tone, and more isn't always better! On certain models, having the Master too high can accentuate some lower midrange 'flub' frequencies and shave off sizzle/presence/air. I don't think this is exclusive to Helix at all though, I hear this effect in shootouts with the QC all the time.
I'm no expert, but I suspect you're right though that there's something about the impedance curve and the modeled interaction between virtual power amp and speaker that causes these things.
I'm firmly a modeling fan however, I don't find these small differences matter that much in musical contexts and I genuinely think this stuff is the future and will only get better. I care less and less about the models being 'accurate recreations' and moreso care if the sounds themselves are interesting, inspiring, interactive, and sit within a ballpark of the history of recorded guitar tones. Don't care if it sounds exactly like the real thing, just that it sounds at least as good as it to my ears. John said it well that it doesn't sound exactly like the SLO, but basically sounds like a different version of the same kind of vibe.
@@jakestewartmusic We really need power amp models in the HX.
Great job. Based on your description before I was able to pick B as the Helix. It sounds more mids forward. Both sound great.
Great tones, thanks for sharing your Helix settings
Wow, i was wrong. I typically guess that the brighter tone during amp vs modeler shootouts, is the modeler.
I was surprised that B wasn't the real amp... Both sound very close. I like to have a bit more low-end in the sound...so I would adjust the eq anyway...
Hell yeah! I overlooked this amp for some reason. It's great.
They both sound good. I like how the Helix is sitting with the kick. Sounds heavy and thick.
So close I'd have to go with the HX at a fraction of the price.
Awesome song and great comparison!
I couldn't really tell the difference.... in the mix I thought I could.... but when you did the iso tracks... nope... couldn't tell. Impressive
There is a more scooped SLO version with depth control in the Helix: Revv Gen Purple.
HX Stomp is a killer tool! Master, please give your opinion about which amp and cab processor used with analog pedals has a better result. Tks
Nice! Wish you would develop presets for the fractal and sell them!
Fascinating! I like where the real amp sits in the mix. More in the low mids than in the high mids, as with the helix. Would be interesting to hear the helix with eq matching to the real thing. Since people who can't afford the real thing, would most likely take care of the pokiness and other things with an eq, to make it sound the best it can.
Awesome video !! I actually got it backwards but I liked the helix most if the time !!
both sounded killer
Well they do sound very alike indeed! I hear a slight "wider" stereo image in the Soldano sounds...slightly more narrow in HX Stomp. But could not tell that in the middle of the mix!
I'll take the Helix. Can't put the SLO parameters on controllers for variable modulation or snapshots for toggling different variant settings. And in the mix they were near identical. Also, in isolation, the Helix was already where I'd still try to dial in the sound of the real amp w/outboard EQ.
It's pretty close, but I like the real SLO30 more as well. Just a bit nicer mids and top end. Also the lows are a little slower on the chugs, which works better for this demo track.
Awesome comparison. .
I guessed exactly opposite bc B sounded better to me in the mix. Isolated I could hear that A had the more raw character, as you said, which did give it something. So kudos to Helix I assume 😊
Obvious differences aside...different modeled amp and digital vs. real amp...it's amazing to hear the similar characteristics in the Helix Model...interesting!
Pausing it at 5:04, man the difference is microscopic. I'm listening on Kali monitors and maybe by a hair I can hear a difference but it really doesn't matter. I think A is the Soldano amp but I wouldn't bet any money on the that. The Line 6 sounds really good which ever one it is lol, they've come a long way since the Spider 2.
I can hear a little more difference in the isolated tracks and do like the Soldano better but not $3000 better, the Line 6 still sounds great and in the mix there is no clear winner, they're both great.
Wow much closer than I expected. I guessed the Soldano was A as I felt I heard more string separation and that characteristic mid growl the real amp has - just a little more aggressive and angrier, which I love. Also a little more depth in A. For me the real difference though is not as much sonically but more the feel and the response of each.. and which inspires your playing more.
I honestly preferred "B" pre-knowledge of which is which. It sounded a bit cleaner and brighter than "A" which is what I personally prefer.
Never thought I'd say this but in this specific example, I preferred the Helix (B).. it's hard to put it into words, other than to say it sounded more mellow to me and I preferred that for these specific riffs. I'm talking about the treble or upper mids I guess. They both sounded good in terms of sounding real or whatever. It was just an EQ preference for these riffs. I generally prefer brighter or more scooped sounds, sharper sounds.. just not in this case. Overall.. I love Soldano amps. I especially the idea of building or tweaking clones. I like to float between Soldano and the Dual Recs.. and like to have switches to get both sounds. It's nice to know there are some decent Soldano sounds in the digital world. With guitar in hand, I probably would have preferred the feel of the real amp but hearing the recordings.. both sounded good. Also playing through a cab, I probably would have preferred a real amp, but using IR equalizes things a bit.
As usual, the top end is not as refined on the modeler. Still sounds good to me. I bet you could be ok with different IRs. Do you ever try using the global eq in these shoot out?
Isolated, I prefer the amp but in the mix the Helix model sat perfectly!
More importantly how is the feel of the helix in comparison to the amp?
I like the scoop a bit better on the real amp but in a mix it was hard to even know when you switched if not looking.
Thanks for doing this. I guessed correct, but with a strong emphasis on *guess* because I sincerely could not tell :o
Please tell me, was the amp more responsive? Do you feel a difference when actually playing? I always wonder about the latency of the FX stomp compared to real amps.
Listening to the comparison, there seems to be a significant difference in headroom, but the Helix is also pretty close!
（using a translator, so sorry if my English is weird）
I could tell the one with more high end and a mid cut was the helix. That seems to be a footprint they leave behind. Each modeler seems to for that matter.
Came for the comparison, stayed for the millenium falcon shirt
Love that shirt!
I think... I love amp sims. Each one of them. Since POD Farm to the most new.
Amp sim + IR (Ownhammer, of course 😉) + EQ = The glory.
(sorry for my english, I'm from Argentina)
I thought, before watching the results, that A was the real amp based on where you have the presence knob set. my SLO100 needs the presence turned up pretty high to sound similar to this helix tone.
I'm not a tone snob in any way... just giving it a general listen, I couldn't even tell when the amps switched. Both sounded great.
My guess would be A is the real SLO because of the bass response, but I would need to hear isolated tracks since the presence is typically the dead giveaway.
Isolated tracks are in the video as well
@@SonicDriveStudio thanks, I wrote this comment before seeing the reveal :). Once I heard the isolated tracks it was definitely even easier to tell. Great video.
I was not into any guess work,but liked tone A more from the begenining and I am kind of glad its the real amp.Nevertheless glorious sounds!!!
To the average passive listener it will always be about the music (and your music is great here as usual), not the slight differences in sound from one amp or model to the other.
As soon as it started on A I was like I don't care if this is the Helix or what, but it sounds disgustingly good.
Hi,
Did you do double tracking in real life or did you use a double tracking plugin for these sound samples?
really cant tell a diff since its distortion of the same amp. but both sound incredible. so thats whats important
Before the reveal, i believe A was the amp. B was the sim. Let's goooo! I was correct. But so so close! No shame on that helix!!🔥
B sounds great but has an ugly top end compared to A (cleaner top end). What interface are you using to record through native helix? I think that with a better pre and converter the sound in helix can be better.
Same interface as the real amp
Yeah but I mean where’s the guitar going first. Guitar to soldano amp / Guitar to pre - Helix Native
You should still watch the video because there’s useful information and opinions on the gear, but for those looking for the short answer:
Yes, the Helix can do the SLO tone very well, but to be truly 1:1 will need a slight 2500-3200 boost in the upper midsection and some mild additional saturation in your mix.
The end results are indistinguishable from each other to most ears.
The answer is also subjective. Everyone probably feels differently about this since we all hear things differently.
@@SonicDriveStudio I totally agree if we’re only using our ears, and not measuring the output waves with a spectrum analyzer. But if you’re truly trying to match the amp to the Helix modeling based on the output, the helix will sound and look (on the analyzer) nearly identical with the slight upper mid boost and some added saturation or very mild harmonic distortion to add more density to the waveforms.
I love your videos. You’re extremely good at dialing in similar tones with your ears alone. So while agree that we all have different ears, some of us (you) are really talented when it comes to matching by ear. Some others need to use reference and analysis tooling to ensure the waves are truly matched or as close as possible.
You can compare the differences by using the Fourier transform and some subtractive math. Once the leftover signal is nearly non-existent, it will guarantee a true audible match. No ears needed. A completely deaf person can achieve it. Luckily for us, our ears work.. but it’s often nice to analyze and prove to ourselves that our ears are accurate. Or to some maybe the exactness of the match isn’t as important as just getting a close enough vibe. I think the Helix sounds more like a real amp than the plugin did to me.. but I’m not sure what amount of that is from chosen IRs etc..
Decades ago, I heard an amazing early 80s model JCM-800 with some special tube converters or modifiers of some sort. I believe they were called “Yellow Jackets” or similar. Somehow they made a Marshall 800 sound exactly like an SLO-100. Would love to find those some day, but these smaller Soldanos seem worthy of a purchase for studio use.
If you don’t mind me asking, what drum software instrument to you do your drum midi with? 🍻
🔥
It is not my favorite sound too, but I was right that the A is the real amp. Real amps in comparison to sims sound darker, which is more pleasant to listen for prolonged time, but that is personal for me. The simulation is like already full of everything, but that brighter addition/difference it has, probably around 1kHz or 5kHz, is so constantly present, it doesn't change its nature based on where you play on the guitar and it feels like it is masking more important parts of the sound.
I prefer darker as well.
They both sound close, but I think A is the amp. It's more controlled and less blown out sounding. I feel like I heard the biggest difference in chords.
Cool stuff! Would have liked to have seen a few more modelers that do the slo. I have the headrush and think it's model is awful lol.
I will do more modelers
Toss some upwards expansion on the Helix, and it would be a lot harder to tell the difference between the two of them. I have to say that for a cheap box that can model just about anything, if it were live in a loud mix, no one would ever know the difference, because both would be compressed to death at the end of the live mix anyways.
I hear slight bass difference, I chose A for SLO 30, B for Line 6 ... and scored :)
Good ears!
I need those isolated guitars for the blind comparison John! The other instruments cloud the mix. Did you stop doing those?
I did not, watch the full video :)
IMO all the helix models are a little congested in the the lower mids. I almost always drop 250 hz down just a bit with an eq pedal.
B had a little bit more bite on single notes
Thoughts from blind listening:
A sounds a little scooped and much tighter. It leaves some empty space in the mix, which I haven't decided if I like.
B sounds stuffy, loose, and washes out in the mix. If you wanted to fill out space, it'd be the better pick.
I like the sound of A more than B in isolation, but in a mix it doesn't seem like the choice is so obvious. Very close overall though.
Nice, could tell amp and helix apart through my phones speakers, but more by prejudice than knowledge. Heard difference in a more sizzely quality and some more composed midrange and guessed correctly - a is amp and b is helix. I'm kinda proud tbh 🙃💩
Man… the first time it switched from A to B I thought “oooo I like how it opened”. Then as the demo went on I started to think “oh crap. I think B is the Helix and I’m supposed to like A.”
It is what it is I guess.
A is real while B is the Helix. My guess is because the amp feels a bit looser while the modeler sounds tighter in the low end. The characteristics are similar, but also different factors between what's in this current Soldano amp vs the modeler. In a mix, both of them sounds great. If you can afford an actual Soldano, fucking do it. If you can't but still want that Soldano sound, plugins nowadays are getting closer and closer to the real thing and the major amp sim companies have a Soldano modeler.
I'm surprised I thought A was the Helix and B was the amp. Anyhow I prefer A but the 2 would complete each other perfectly with quad tracking.
Great demo but i think while recording and compressing the record for UA-cam, it lost the sound details. For me no difference at all to my ears. I was listening to an iPad from 2018.
the difference is non existent in the mix but it is definitely noticeable when isolated but only slightly. HX stomp sounded a bit flubby but very slightly.
Both sounded great. For months I used that model in the Helix as my main sound with my 90s rock cover band but always found something strange about the top end that I couldn't fix with any amount of EQ'ing or IR swapping. Ended up switching to the Friedman models and never looked back.
okay maybe i'm wrong, but i'm damn sure B is the real soldano, because there's really pronounced twang in the upper midrange which i also noticed watching the review of the amp, and also midrange is overall really complex and "three-dimentional", A is a bit dull in comparison
whoa, gotta say helix is nuts in the mix, really didn't expect that, but when soloed you really can hear soldano shine (also it seems logical that new soldano is more flat in the midrange because of this v30 thing)
For my ears they are almost the same. There are some slightly difference but I can't describe where in the spectrum.
Let's be honest: we're just splitting hairs right now
Hard to tell cos chords are to saturated. U can here a hudge difference if u play lead
What i took from this is...HX is how old niw and yet the tones are killer 🔥 i cannot give a tube amp any justice to buy these days. Coming from a ex tube snob lol
LOL! I was totally sure that Helix is clip A. And clip B sounds more real and kinda 'expensive' in the mix 😂
They were so close in the mix it doesn't even matter.
A - tube
B - HX
:)
I'm guessing A is amp and B is Helix...
A sounds better on lap top speakers,so i go A for the amp.
Real Amp better dynamic and more open bright top end, also IMO a bit diff voicing between Amp and Helix. Prefered more Real Amp in this case. Another thing is how both react on eq in a mix on limiter in a master chain etc... Its all about this small but important things.
There isn’t a “better” because they are so close. They’re slightly different. Is that difference with the cost difference? No.
I thought the real amp sounded a bit more open while the helix sounded a bit more compressed. Overall i prefer the tone of the real amp, though the helix sounds a bit nore 'tidy' and forward in the mix.
I prefered the Helix here, probably because i like top end and the amp seemed a bit lacking in high end
My guess: A = real amp, B = Helix.
Edit: Hah! I was right. The Helix always sounds a little dry and there is no way to get a proper wet sounding overdrive. I tried virtually everything, from various EQ settings to custom IR's. Nothing really worked, so I sold mine and bought another modeller. 🙂
Despite of the recorded sound:
Just yesterday I plugged in my old trusty Home made SLO clone. Now, compared to my hd500x may sound close, but the feeling, the way the amp interacts to your playstyle and fingers (even at vol level 2) has no point of comparison. So, for recording, yes. For real life still prefer real emotions, real feel. Only who have played a real tube amp with a real cab (mine is a first edition 4x12 5150 slant) can understand the difference. Tone wise, with the evolution of amp sims, not much difference. But the emotion isn't there.
Both were REALLY close. So absolutely No reason to buy the real very expensive amp 😎
The real amp sounds 3D, whereas the modeler sounds flat, if that makes any sense.
Long time HX Stomp user, I could immediately tell the real amp from the modeler. The Stomp, and all Helix products for that matter, are mushy and lack attack, and the high mids are either pokey or blunt, depending on the amp.
Real amp wins for me, but I honestly don’t care and keep using amp sims and modelers for recording and gigging. The difference is minimal, not worth the price difference in my opinion. And after years and years of lugging around heads and cabs, or finding the right spot for the microphone when recording, I’m not going back to real amps.
I literally can’t hear a difference insane
They sound close enough. The demo is giving me “Mayonnaise” vibes.
In my headphones they’re extremely close, If I’m gigging and I have the possibility to use a 4x12, I would chose the real amp
so sorry for the real deal
Funny how some people prefer the helix. To me the helix sounds less open and dynamic
Aa usual, the real amp sounds more defined, better articulation and much easier to listen to. However, I think they're close, of course.
if you could have eq-d the soldano better - they wouldn't sound the same
Low mids were a bit fuller on the Helix. I thought for sure it was the real amp. Been playing for 50+ years. Maybe m ears are getting old.