Can you put up some links to the videos you mentioned where you talk about melding the five room dungeon pacing ideas with jaquays-style dungeon design? That sounds really interesting.
Trying to run a table with 8-10 novice players per session. First tried free form, games dragged, adapted by cutting content. Second tried, limiting player turns to 90 seconds, minor improvement, all major elements of the adventure were touched, but a 5 room dungeon took 3 sessions to complete. Third tried 10 second turns, racing through a 9 room, 1 page dungeon resulted in a wipeout, but every room was entered by a party member (the party split up 🤦♂️).
If I want something to be fast-paced I slap a 15 minute real-life timer on it. When the timer goes off, something bad happens. Some examples I have used to great effect: - Abandoned magic academy afflicted by random magical outbursts. Every 15 minutes roll to see which player it affects, then roll on a table of effects - a PC died as the magic quadrupled their already heavy Tortle form. It was a bad time to be on a decaying wooden floor on the 3rd storey. The Players explored that place fast, just like their characters would. - Party pushed some buttons and levitated a city into the sky. Every 15 minutes the ground shook, each time ticking down a timer until the city fell from the sky. They had to run around the city gathering components so that a wizard could fix the device and safely bring the city down to the ground. Combo this with some fast paced music, and your good to go. In some instances I pause the timer during combat, but in others I leave it on - mostly depends on how detrimental the effects are. It was turned off during the magic academy, turned on during the flying city as it would simply force all creatures to roll or be knocked to the ground prone rather than deal direct damage.
I know i must likely be wrong to go against mike and monty... but i feel like putting pacing on the dm is asking too much. The players choices should regulate pacing for them. The whole hamlets hitpoints thing, to me, shows the dms hand on the scale too much to have verisimilitude of a real world.
I agree with you, but the players are notoriously bad in putting effort into making the game better. It's not that the DM HAS to do it, it's usually that the DM is the only one that's WILLING TO LEARN HOW to make it better.
@@thatguy846yeah, basically this. Players will drag out their decisions in finitum, so pacing becomes one of the most important DM tools in my opinion and experience. 😅
@@thatguy846I don't think that's a self-evident fact, and I'd even say if your players get a whiff of "if we sit around, something will just conveniently happen" they are even less likely to take it upon themselves to be the drivers
From my perspective sure the full pressure of game pacing can't be on the dm. However the dm does typically control what tools his players have to mess with pacing. + The dm is in a position to grant or decline the players attempts at pacing regulation. In a dungeon that goes in a lot of different directions. The players decide the direction. The dm decides what the enouters will entails. Is it an upward beat, downward beat, Is time in game moving at combat turn speed or is time being compressed to speed up pacing. Are combat enouters coming to the players or are the players running head long into them. If things have gotten slow at the table.... Do the players collectively have the ability to liven things up. ( Look up the concept of nija pull. Essentially a table of encounters that the dm can roll on when the players collectively think the game has gotten in a rut and needs some extra hot spice. This is, if implemented to help the players communicate to the dm when they see the game as slow. + Make thing more entertaining in the process. The idea is to bring the characters with just enough context to the next available meaningful choice. Then let the party make the choices + we move forward. I think the 3 ways pacing works are. 1 How time is flowing in the game world. Do you skip travel to get to a destination, time compressed. Do you slow time down for combat or a specific moment of exploration. 2 What situations are thrown at players. The upward and downward beats. Down hard combat encounter. Up beneficial social interaction/ discovery encounter. 3 How much detail and time does the dm put into the description of the world. + How much time is spent looking up rules and lore. While players can interact with all 3. Dm's can regulate this interaction and have an easier time directing pacing. Though a player asking for lots of world detail, requesting time slow for a socal encounter or deliberately opening doors and bring on the next combat encounter early..... Are all possibilities. This is why communication about the issues and complexities of collaboration in ttrpg story telling is so important.
I don't mind hearing useful info multiple times, since it helps me memorize it. But so help me god if I have to hear about the wife's bearbarian throwing the necromancer into a pit a 4th time I'm skipping the video 😂
How come some of these videos are unlisted? Not even sure how I got here, but I am really enjoying it.
I'm guessing you're a patron. It just was released publicly
Can you put up some links to the videos you mentioned where you talk about melding the five room dungeon pacing ideas with jaquays-style dungeon design? That sounds really interesting.
I like MCDM's Flee Mortals and how they put in different abilities for the monsters to use...
10:26 - learning, planning, doing - energy levels.
Yes the experience of players is important. My group of players have centuries of experience between them. It’s hard to make encounters for them
Trying to run a table with 8-10 novice players per session. First tried free form, games dragged, adapted by cutting content. Second tried, limiting player turns to 90 seconds, minor improvement, all major elements of the adventure were touched, but a 5 room dungeon took 3 sessions to complete. Third tried 10 second turns, racing through a 9 room, 1 page dungeon resulted in a wipeout, but every room was entered by a party member (the party split up 🤦♂️).
That's a lot of players
Yeah we have a Dm and 4 or 5 players. I think that works pretty well for us:)@@Subo23
improvise your prep
Pacing is affected if "someone is carb crashing" lol
If I want something to be fast-paced I slap a 15 minute real-life timer on it. When the timer goes off, something bad happens. Some examples I have used to great effect:
- Abandoned magic academy afflicted by random magical outbursts. Every 15 minutes roll to see which player it affects, then roll on a table of effects - a PC died as the magic quadrupled their already heavy Tortle form. It was a bad time to be on a decaying wooden floor on the 3rd storey. The Players explored that place fast, just like their characters would.
- Party pushed some buttons and levitated a city into the sky. Every 15 minutes the ground shook, each time ticking down a timer until the city fell from the sky. They had to run around the city gathering components so that a wizard could fix the device and safely bring the city down to the ground.
Combo this with some fast paced music, and your good to go. In some instances I pause the timer during combat, but in others I leave it on - mostly depends on how detrimental the effects are. It was turned off during the magic academy, turned on during the flying city as it would simply force all creatures to roll or be knocked to the ground prone rather than deal direct damage.
I know i must likely be wrong to go against mike and monty... but i feel like putting pacing on the dm is asking too much. The players choices should regulate pacing for them. The whole hamlets hitpoints thing, to me, shows the dms hand on the scale too much to have verisimilitude of a real world.
I agree with you, but the players are notoriously bad in putting effort into making the game better.
It's not that the DM HAS to do it, it's usually that the DM is the only one that's WILLING TO LEARN HOW to make it better.
@@thatguy846yeah, basically this. Players will drag out their decisions in finitum, so pacing becomes one of the most important DM tools in my opinion and experience. 😅
@@thatguy846I don't think that's a self-evident fact, and I'd even say if your players get a whiff of "if we sit around, something will just conveniently happen" they are even less likely to take it upon themselves to be the drivers
From my perspective sure the full pressure of game pacing can't be on the dm.
However the dm does typically control what tools his players have to mess with pacing.
+ The dm is in a position to grant or decline the players attempts at pacing regulation.
In a dungeon that goes in a lot of different directions.
The players decide the direction. The dm decides what the enouters will entails.
Is it an upward beat, downward beat,
Is time in game moving at combat turn speed or is time being compressed to speed up pacing.
Are combat enouters coming to the players or are the players running head long into them.
If things have gotten slow at the table.... Do the players collectively have the ability to liven things up.
( Look up the concept of nija pull. Essentially a table of encounters that the dm can roll on when the players collectively think the game has gotten in a rut and needs some extra hot spice.
This is, if implemented to help the players communicate to the dm when they see the game as slow. + Make thing more entertaining in the process.
The idea is to bring the characters with just enough context to the next available meaningful choice.
Then let the party make the choices + we move forward.
I think the 3 ways pacing works are.
1
How time is flowing in the game world.
Do you skip travel to get to a destination, time compressed.
Do you slow time down for combat or a specific moment of exploration.
2
What situations are thrown at players. The upward and downward beats.
Down hard combat encounter.
Up beneficial social interaction/ discovery encounter.
3
How much detail and time does the dm put into the description of the world.
+ How much time is spent looking up rules and lore.
While players can interact with all 3.
Dm's can regulate this interaction and have an easier time directing pacing.
Though a player asking for lots of world detail, requesting time slow for a socal encounter or deliberately opening doors and bring on the next combat encounter early.....
Are all possibilities.
This is why communication about the issues and complexities of collaboration in ttrpg story telling is so important.
I don't mind hearing useful info multiple times, since it helps me memorize it.
But so help me god if I have to hear about the wife's bearbarian throwing the necromancer into a pit a 4th time I'm skipping the video 😂