It is amazing how clear and slowly this guy explains every topic in his videos!!! Thanks a lot from the non native english speaking followers comunity!!!!!
Hi Tony Great video on servicing hi-end pots thank you. I think you are incorrect though in stating that D5 attacks carbon. Actually, pretty much nothing (solvent wise) attacks carbon and D5 certainly does not. I've just made a video on this. I've serviced (conservatively) 10,000 pots with D5 without a single problem. Same story for every amp tech I know. Millions of pots serviced. Also Caig have explicitely written to me and stated that D5 is safe for use on carbon track pots. You would have to believe they were flat-out lying to maintain that it attacks carbon. Yes of course any solvent will probably wash away the grease on your high-end pots. But it's the myth that D5 attacks carbon that I would love to put to bed once and for all! Soak a carbon track from a pot in D5 for a month then loom at it uder a microscope. There won't be the slightest damage. I believe the myth arose because some people believe minueral spirits dissolve carbon. They do not. People using it to clean carbon off engine are merely removing loose carbon particles which then go into suspension in the mineral spirit. Hope you don't mind me saying all this. Great work and a great channel.
I think that 'D5 attacks carbon thingy' has nothing to do with carbon at all. The stuff really kill 'OLD' pots carbon track is cold temperature the can produces while you are using it. The cold temperature it produces breaks down carbon track inside OLD pot. OLD pot only. New one ? it doesn't matter. OOOOOOLD one does... like 20+ years old.
He stated D5 is the “enemy of potentiometers” but not just any pot, “but carbon potentiometers” 2:35 but then went on to claim that D5 dissolves the “friction grease” 14:05 “which allows corrosion or crud to get in there” - I doubt friction grease is only applied to carbon pots. So where is the evidence of the claim of specifically carbon pots? There is none.
My understanding or conclusion has been that the “D” version is indeed recommended for metal contacts protection. It should leave a very thin protective layer on metal. Protective in the sense of limiting atmospheric contaminants, including oxygen, but most importantly the sulphur compounds (from your sweat and breathing) which tarnishes especially silver contacts. If, on the other hand you apply it to carbon, you leave atomic layer of insulator on top of the carbon. We are talking about carbon track and carbon wiper, both normally quite soft and lubricating as contact. So, you have coated the carbon with some invisible - even on a microscope - contamination layer. On metal contacts, there is no harm, as metal penetrates the D5-layer, being hard enough. That is in contrast to the carbon to carbon contact that cannot penetrate the thin, harder layer. Additionally, I speculate that the fresh layer of D5 may look like working fine even on carbon potentiometers, but do the damage in several months.
Wow excellent informative video and you saved my bacon. I’m a retired electronics engineer and presently performing some overdue maintenance on my Marantz, SAE and Harmon Kardon audio equipment from the 1970’s. It has many dirty switches and noisy pots in them. All of my cleaners are gone and I searched the internet for replacements. I came across a dude explaining how a pot works and how great this DeoxIT Red is for cleaning pots. Then I watched your video of how bad this stuff is for pots and what should be used instead and how to clean the switches. Boy I almost destroyed some high dollar classic audio gear. I hope this video goes viral and informs many others. Thanks again.
Great rant and bang on. Deoxit D5 is excellent for cleaning metal contacts only, not carbon comp potentiometers. My choice - MG Chemicals 404B with silicones for electronics, safe for plastics, leaves a dry silicone lube, as good or better than Deoxit Fader F5 at a fraction of the cost.
Just purchased a can of D5 spray and it looks like they revised the label as it now explicitly states potentiometers under the “uses” section. I also note another channel video discusses this issue and the host reached out to the manufacturer, Caig, and the company stated that D5 does not dissolve carbon or damage plastic, and is safe to use on potentiometers. Their F5 product contains additional lubricants for moving faders and the like, which is what differentiates it from the D5 product. I also noticed you mentioned that D5 “dissolves carbon”, but then go on to explain that “cleaning off the D5” can possibly restore a potentiometer that was damaged by D5…. But if the carbon has been dissolved, obviously no amount of cleaning will restore it back. My impression is that what is occurring in many cases is that the potentiometer was damaged to begin with, likely having scraped carbon traces from the wiper, and it continues to function to some degree because the scraped carbon powder is still laying in the trace even though it is no longer physically attached. After being cleaned with D5, that loose carbon powder is removed and the result is what appears to be worse functionality attributed to the D5, when really the potentiometer was worn to begin with. It’s possible that the lubricants in the F5 product allow that damaged carbon powder to stick a bit more, so you don’t notice the damage as much. Just some observations.
To clear some things up, carbon will most likely be the only element left at the end of the universe, according to some physicists, so I doubt that red deoxit will "eat" it. That said, some potentiometers are made from compressed carbon powder mixed with a binding agent to make it solid. When you "embalm" a potentiometer with huge quantities of deoxit (or any oily substance, for that matter) it will cause the binding agent in some carbon pots to break down. This will eventually cause the carbon track of the pot to wear down and get thin, changing the resistance until it eventually cracks and fails completely. This only happens with certain pots, as different binding agents can be more or less resistant to this. I have seen it many times. People will empty the can of deoxit into the pot and it will work for a while, only to have it stop working again, because of all the dirt and grime mixed with the oily residue causing it to not work again. The person will then spray more deoxit (or WD40 oil, or whatever) into the pot, repeating the cycle. The best way to deal with a noisy pot is to use a quick drying non-residue contact cleaner, such as CRC QD cleaner. This will clean out the dust and grime from the pot. Then follow up with a tiny amount of treatment, such as the deoxit or nu-trol (or many other similar chemicals). Less is better. If that doesn't work, I suggest disassembling the pot and servicing it properly as I showed in the video. Additionaly, I've found that the old selector switches that use bakelite or that brown fiberboard material will soften and crack when you embalm them as well. If you watch the video series I did on the Hallicrafters SX-42, you will see an example of this. Again, this is just my opinion and my limited experience. There are others that have claimed to be "doing this for XX years, and I've never had any problems". I don't doubt this, as people with many years experience are probably using the product correctly and are not soaking the control in the stuff. Hope this helps.
I believe that’s a fair and accurate statement and I agree that over-saturating pots with any type of Deoxit is likely to cause more problems than it solves. I also agree that many older fiber board type materials are sensitive to oily compounds. A reasonably small amount of Deoxit probably won’t cause the problems you identify, but perhaps not using any oily type product would be safest. Thanks for the follow up. Good job on the videos!
The redesign is because the original worked to well and they needed to sell more product. Very informative video and you have convinced me to change how I clean potentiometers.
45 minutes well spent. I learned so much from your tutorial and glad I did because I was going to spray the pots on an old receiver with the Red DeOxit!!!! Glad I caught your video and now I'll purchase the correct products.
Yes, for carbon pots and faders: green stuff, green stuff, GREEN STUFF!!!!! Works an absolute treat. “Conductive plastic” means “carbon-track”, as I believe (but do check me on this) that the carbon tracks in most potentiometers are made of carbon-impregnated *plastic*. They’re trying to be clear, but it’s created much confusion. I recently restored two old (and very valuable) drum machines, and I had to order a new can of F5, as I certainly didn’t wanna screw those pots up. ALL the pots were completely restored by flushing them with DeOxit GREEN F5 “Fader Lube”.
Great video. I’ve also found that spraying pots can leech up the pot shaft and ruin the nice smooth dampened feel. Really, these pots need the TINIEST drop of the fader lube on the wiper. No need to spray the crap out of them.
I really appreciate this info Tony. Glad to learn about the Red DeOxit problem with pots. Also, I totally agree about the newer cans with that goofy fire hose straw. Have a great week.
I had a cheat for old pots which I discovered by accident. I used to blast them with a heat gun and the few times I did this they started working properly again. I was trying to remove a pot in an industrial setting and had blasted it with heat to try to loosen up paint on the fitting. To my surprise, the pot started working properly again. I didn't really think about it too much, just assumed that the heat had dissolved all the crap. No idea if this would work on all types of pots.
Wow!! I've been using D5 for carbon pots for years now. It's use for pots is legendary on the net. Thanks, Tony for the heads up in distinguishing it's specific use for switches and NOT carbon pots.
Yay! Good to see somebody else who "gets" it. De-Oxit is frequently misused and overused. The active ingredients are organic *acids* ---- more acidic than organic! ---- and you shouldn't leave all that gunk inside the pot. By the way, glass-bristle scratch brushes are an extremely useful tool, but the bristles vary greatly in stiffness and hardness from one make/supplier to another, and some will leave a rough surface on the metal commutator rings or even remove the silver plating. I find that a pencil eraser works well on both the carbon track and the metal ring. As for the scratch brushes, buy some replacement brushes from two or three different suppliers and you might get some really soft ones suitable for cleaning the metal without scratching. The stiffer ones are particulatly good for cleaning NOS terminal strips and tube socket contacts, or an amp chassis,, prior to soldering.
American pots used in Fishers did not contain "friction grease." That was ordinary grease for lubricating shaft and bushing to maintain low friction by keeping moisture and dust out. It's the Japanese pot makers that introduced a lubricant I'll call a "damping grease" to give a control that smooth rotation feeling.
Mallory new old stock, you taking apart of the Fisher stereo pod reminded me of how you could buy different Value pots, shafts, switches and gang them together, gone are the good old days.
Unfortunately, those "pick a shaft" controls weren't the best quality wise ---- okay for fixing a TV's brightness or contrast control, or a table radio volume control, but not so good if you needed a stereo volume or balance pot.
I have been using Deoxit for years and it’s the best contact conditioner but it’s a two part-system red and blue the red is a cleaner it needs to be rinsed out and then treated with the bile it will not affect the rivets used. So it is good stuff if you use it right! !
Thank you for sharing a good process for cleaning and re-lubricating old pots! One comment I would like to make, is at 18:16 , when you were going to clean the center contact ring, you showed us a fiberglass scratch brush with what looks like a used and dirty surface. If you have a pair of scissors made for cutting kevlar and carbon fiber (easily available from common "delivery and auction" sources) , you can use that to trim the dirty end of the fiberglass brush surface back to get a clean brush that hopefully won't deposit any contaminants on what you are trying to clean.
Problem is, a lot of people use too much of that red Deoxit, and the chassis is dripping out with the stuff. You have to use as minimal as you can, first the red, then the green, or only the green one. Depends on how dirty the pots are. So you have to open them, anyway, to see that. And less is more. For contacts, I use WD40 Specialist, the green one, it's specially for PCB and electronics. It works fast, and don't leave residue. Also, a bit, not spraying like you would with Kontakt WL to wash the PCB. If I use Deoxit in an open pot meter, I spray a bit in a small container and use an ear stick to clean and lube. But maybe I order the same as you use, the 100 brand. Problem is, on this side of the world there are few shops who sell this. Thanks for the tip.
Boy I am so glad that somebody made a comment on You Tube Video on this subject. I felt lost at the amount of people or techs using it on Pots and Sliders and I suspect its because of advertising. I quickly became distrustful of DeOxit D5 when I first used it to rejuvenate a turn signal relay on my car as it came highly recomended by a clerk that worked as an electrician at Home Depot. On seperate occasions it repeatedly developed carbon on the contacts of the relay and quit working. The best peformance I got was about five weeks. I was being cheap and should have bought the more expensive TV Tuner Cleaner. Yep thats what the sprays name was called. Quite a long time ago I used it on pots relays, record switches and relay contacts and never had a problems with them failing. I had also used it on five old car relays and never had a problem after words. As I wrote this comment, I have been diligently looking for a replacement to the actual and original TV Tuner cleaner and hoping to find what the contents of that product was. Ironically I never ever used it on a tv tuner, I felt that that product was undermarketed and could have been given a better, descriptive name. Reading the comments on the internet, it seems that one can of TV Tuner Cleaner can replace 2 to 3 cans that require doing the same job from reading peoples comments. Unfortunately I've heard that TV Tuner Cleaner has been discontinued. Getting back to DeOxit D5 I found it useful for getting rid of corrosion from the spring like Triple AAA battery contacts and other metal contact surfaces but that was all. After words cleaned them up with a q-tip and then applied a light other and more trusted oil. In the case of the relay, metal likes oil. I would cut out a small rectangular piece of card stock a little wider than width of the relay contact and spray it with a small amount TV Tuner Cleaner and then slide it between the cleaned contacts and they where as good as new. You can clean the surface or even file them clean, but if you don't put a thin layer of oil, the relay will fail down the road. If anyone or somebody knows what the contents of TV Tuner Cleaner had or their experience please comment. I sure would be greatful and suspect others would be too. Experience is the best school.
Great video Tony & I appreciate the steps shown on performing needed 'surgery' on a pot.. I believe that it might be better to say that D5 can break up build on an already damaged or inferior carbon striping on a pot instead of saying that D5 destroys the carbon on a pot. And your video fairly shows that very well. Bringing up and showing how to handle the possibility of aged & hardened lubricant is also a key factor in the proper performance of a pot as well. Good job!! 👍😊
Tony.... I knew this day would arrive. Revisited this particular video. Once my Sansui developed this self inflected wound. I genuinely appreciate you and your channel. John
Have you tried 3.3 oz. Technician Grade Dielectric Grease from home depot? At $13 it sounds a better deal to me; plus the added benefit of a 3.3 oz tube could last you well into the next millennia. Safe on plastics and rubber too. Maybe it's wort doing a comparison video because I can see little difference between the performance of the two greases.
I use the Super Lube Syncolon grease from HD - It has Teflon in it. I’ve used it for years from back when radio shack sold it. It costs $6.67 for a 3 oz tube. It is also available as a 4 oz bottle of oil.
I appreciate your reluctant acceptance of having to jump through hoops. I want you to know, I chose this video for the title. Not the face. Your face is harboring the hole you use to share information. Carry on
Absolutely correct. I dont understand why its so hard for people to spread the right info. Clean cautiously with the right deoxidizer like deoxit F, relube with a Rheo lube or if your pot feels loose due to washing/cleaning away the damping grease then add some more damping grease. But i guess i do get why people dont say that since that all just opens another can of worms. Which Rheo lube? What Deoxit/ contact cleaner? What Damping Grease? Of those products there are hundreds of variations with different purposes. But once you figure out the correct products and procedures you'll rarely come across a pot you cant revive. So bottom line, dont just spray contact cleaner and expect it to improve your potentiometer cause at best it will "work" for a few days then go right back to being scratchy (oxidized) and feeling loose.
Thanks for this video, I’m restoring a RCA Victor am/fm radio I got at an Estate sale for 5 bucks. The volume potentiometer was super scratchy and I was looking for my Deoxit to spray the heck out of it like I have done in the past. Well I had used my Deoxit on a friends car and forgot I left it in my truck and ran across this video before I found it. So I took the potentiometer apart and cleaned like you showed and now it works great and is so smooth. BTW this pot was a 1 Meg ohm with 2 taps in the rear at 250 and 500 ohms so it would have been a hard one to replace. Thanks again I’ll be using this info in the future.
In tmy education as electronics technician here in Europe I learnd only use specialized Cleaners for sensitive Parts like Pots, Sliders, Tuner and so on. We use only Kontakt Chemie´s TUNER 600 for cleaning. Does good work on our Studio Mixer's .
Thanks for that "heads up", Tony. You making a face unfortunately did not make the video popping up for me, obviously, but I also learned that information way back when I was trainee... I did learn there that it *always* is a good idea to 1st clean up the pot *and* switches with stuff much alike your "deoxit red" 2nd rinse out *all* of the contact cleaner with something like alcohol (either use things like isopropanol alcohol from a spray can or get some drops of it inside the pots 3rd after all give all some kind of oil spray, maybe use things like gun-oil (Ballistol) or even the much beloved "WD40" spray which is kind of both: Lubrication for the contacts and sealing it against new corrision. And it is not only water-detergent but also gets out the cleaning chemicals out of the carbon tracks etc. from where these chemicals may also kill the paper or plastic carrier plate of the carbon track, as you said. This 3 steps did work very well most of the time for me, even without dismounting
I have also run into a case or two where a residue-free "electronics cleaner" has been safe in every other aspect, but it apparently dissolved the glue used to build some SMD button switches.
I just used Deoxit applied to the 22 Faders on my 1978 Soundcraftmen's PE2217 Pre-amplifier/Equalizer. Good stuff. I then applied a silicon lubricant to those 22 Faders. Worked out wonderfully But there were several scratches on the top of the wooden case. So I sanded them down, and then applied a matching magic marker color to those areas. But in the long run, those areas looked more shiny than the rest of the undamaged areas. Just for a laugh, I applied the Deoxit to the whole wooden area. WOW, it now looks as good as new with no areas being different from the rest. When I say WOW, I mean super WOW !
I must admit, I've been a bit 'silly' with the red deoxit, and I do think it's a case of 'monkey see, monkey do'. Thanks for bringing the awareness to the products we use and how to use them more appropriately. Your knowledge and the sharing of it is much appreciated.
Thanks for this video. I had been using F5 on pots & faders since 2012 and always kept buying it just for that purpose. I always read online that everyone was using D5 for their pots. I almost thought to try D5 on the pots but F5 worked great so I never did. Now I feel like I just got lucky all these years using the right stuff for the job.
Tony seems VERY knowledgeable for a guy who this is “just a hobby” for. I can troubleshoot basic electronics and even locate a transistor that works intermittently. But beats me about knowing what chemical product to use for what. I don’t believe one can take a course on it(?) Regular technical institutions that teach electronics are more likely to make one take a history or civics course with a “woke” teacher (that may try to teach one to hate their country) than to offer a practical course on the application of chemical products for electronics. Does Deoxit or MG go to various states to offer them? My local electronics store is always having Elenco come in to teach soldering to beginners but it would be nice if they had an applications engineer come in from a chemical company. Thanks for your video Tony X.
Best way to learn is to destroy a few things..... In a controlled manor of course and keeping the expense to a minimum. I find I learn more from what does not work then when it works the way I expect it too.
I don't understand the ridiculous face thumbnail thing that the youtube algorithm seems to like, but here's the truth: I generally won't click on videos with those stupid thumbnails because they drive me crazy. Usually it's a shit channel trying to get clicks. That said, you and Mr. Carlson can make all the silly faces you want, and I will always watch. This video is pretty timely for me, too, because I found a NOS still sealed Heathkit tube amp to that I will be building, and one of the unobtanium pots it came with is a little stiff, and will need this kind of TLC. So thank you for making this video.
Very interesting video Tony. Just shows there is no silver bullet for cleaning contacts, it's horses for courses. Worth stressing the use of an analogue meter for checking pot action, using a DMM just doesn't show what is happening, especially if the autoranging kicks in as the resistance of the pot varies. The Japanese really did their research on friction grease, most of their pots have a superb Goldilocks 'feel', not too loose, not too stiff, just tactile perfection.
Sorry to see your pots got damaged buy Deoxit D5. What a disappointment. I’ve had good luck with MG Chemicals Nu-trol Control Cleaner which IS designed for potentiometers. The only issue I’ve had cleaning pots was with a McIntosh MC-2105 amp. The controls in mine seemed to use a vinyl-like track, similar to those found in faders, and the control cleaner just dissolved the track and lifted it right off. Perhaps Deoxit Fader would have been a better choice for those as it’s supposedly safe on plastics. Most of the time cleaning pots is foolproof, but when it goes wrong, it goes very wrong.
Reviewing your video again to pick up anything I might have missed. Suggest a video on how to investigate, identify, and replace defective stereo pots with new would make an excellent informational video... this perplexes me on how and where and what to buy... And modify stereo pots.
This is valuable information. I'll be backing-off the DeoxIT D5 and use Fader F5 from now on! I'll unfortunately have to tare apart everything I have restored, and hit them with Fader F5! err
Everyone has their own tools and products that they like to use. When I do use Deoxit D5 on switches it is a tiny amount at the end of the process. D5 is pretty expensive stuff. What is cheap and works great is CRC Contact Cleaner 100% evaporation, once the dirt is washed out it leaves nothing behind. Switches and pots get washed really well with it. Switches get a tiny drop of D5 on the contacts. If the mechanism is stiff I use a little bit of white lithium grease, it's non-conductive. When I rebuild pots it's all cleaned and I choose to not put anything on the carbon or the wiper contact points. If the shaft needs it, just a bit of the white lithium grease so it rotates freely. This is not the only way, and I can't claim it's the best way for everyone; it works for me.
I don't have much time or space to do electronics repairs anymore but in the 1980s when I fixed a bunch of second hand gear for my own use, I learned to really hate contact spray. I never used it myself but I got stuff from others that had gunk all over the place on potmeters and on switches. I always thought that it didn't make sense because whatever it is, you spray it on the dirt and it might make it soft or whatever, but the dirt doesn't actually go anywhere! Unless you wipe it off maybe, which no-one does of course. So you get a device with a crackling potmeter, spray it, and it works, but pretty soon the crackling comes back worse than before, because the contact spray turned into gunk. So I rather opened the potmeters and switches and scraped any oxidation off wipers (never scrape the carbon tracks of course) and switch contacts with a knife or even a screwdriver, and that worked great: I fixed many devices that way, which still work 30 odd years later. I don't know if contact spray in Europe is the same thing as DeOxit but seeing all those videos of you and other guys spraying that crap into potentiometers, I almost changed my mind and got some of this "miracle" stuff for future repairs. I'm glad you proved me right after all, and stopped me on time.
Worth mentioning that some pots have a C-ring snap-fitted into a groove on the shaft that will need to be pried off. Also, some pots have the wafers *crimped* onto the shaft (the shaft was peened like a rivet during manufacture) ---- this generally doesn't pose a problem for disassembling single pots, but some dual pots might be impossible to disassemble, especially dual concentric pots where there is an outer shaft for the front-most pot and an inner shaft for the rear-most pot. The question that arises is, how badly does the pot operate, and is there an alternative to disassembling it? You might only get one shot at it, and a mistake, or a slip of the pliers, could spell doom for your vintage equipment. Have a Plan B at the ready, just in case. If there is sufficient space to just replace the control with a modern blue Alps pot, and the correct resistance and taper is available (and the shaft length is sufficient and can accept the original knob) , then just replace it. The problem that often arises is that many of these vintage controls have a fixed loudness tap on the resistance elements, and exact replacement pots are no longer available. Proceed with caution!
Good info on pots and the use of DeOxit. I was guilty of using the D5 for everything until a few months ago after learning the harmful effects it had on pots. 😬 A noiseless pot is a happy pot! 😊Love the Alaskan Pipeline comment 😅You can remove that bulky cap but it takes a bit of force then outfitting the exposed stem with a different nozzle should work 🤔
I've found that Houdini works well for cleaning pots. It's a greaseless and oilless lock lubricant produced since the 1970s and it's d-limonene based and non-conductive. It will dissolve polystyrene, though.
Hi Tony. I have a recommendation; after applying the Deoxit D100 drop onto the metal contact ring, gently spread it with your pinkie finger, a toothpick, or the pointy end of those cosmetic Q-tips. If you don’t - and you reassemble the pot as-is - the 1st time you turn the shaft, the wiper could fling the droplet onto the carbon track, undoing all the good you’ve just done. And with it reassembled, you’ll never see it. By spreading it out, you can see if any D100 gets on the carbon track while the pot is still disassembled, and you can wipe it off. HTH! 😋
NO, don't use D5 or D100 inside any pot. If you want the rotor contact ring lubed use an electronics grade grease that will not dry out for many years. VERY expensive if you can find that. But for cheap skates like me I use Super Lube (used to be sold by Radio Shack labelled as lube Gel. Apply very little. It won't run around inside the pot and foul the carbon track if that's what you're worried about.
Thank you a lot for this video! I was lucky enough to read somewhere before that D5 must not be used on potenciometers and bought and used F5 instead. On the other of my tape deck (same model) the pots are very loose, so I guess someone did use D5/100 on those before ("profesionally serviced", said eBay ad...). BTW, I read the description on D5 and indeed it does not mention it should not be used on potenciometers.
Tony, excellent video. Thanks! I knew about the Caig fader (F) products, but didn't realize that D5/100 could damage carbon pots. I wonder how many vintage systems are out there deteriorating as we speak.
Great picture! Wonderful information. I've been using DeOxit for years and never realized that it didn't like carbon pots. Luckily, I don't believe that I have actually used it for volume controls. Thanks for the video!
Thank you for the tutorial. My question is regarding the latter end where you discuss using the QC electronic cleaner: In spraying a little to remove residue, will it affect the existing friction grease or because the cleaner is alcohol based - not so much? I'm guessing the only way to know is when all is done if the pot turns too easily, grease may have been compromised. I know a little goes a long way so the trick is to use cleaners and lubes sparingly. Thanks again, cheers.
Lol reminds of my younger days of hunting on the back roads and trash bin outside people were tossing old radios 📻 out from many brands i was 13 or 15 most of them had burnt outputs and i go in and fix them alcohol was my freind lol now what happened too the recivers i fix idk i had about 5 or 4 then later at around 18 or 19 i found a bunch of sanyo and integrated amps that need the stk chip and i used my allowance too spring for parts or from others old radios i had i do think when left all my stuff got junk after my mom moved and i was out of town. Bummer now i still work on electronics i love the audio side of electronics repair & modified thanks for great and awesome video lots of info
this is %100 correct. this is a corrosion inhibitor and design to dissolve and remove most metal salts and leave a residue to protect from later corrosion like copper sulfate or oxidation.
That's a lot of work. Are you doing that to retain vintage authenticity? Because, for the value of time, I'd buy a new one and slap it in. That said, I'm going to take another look at one I replaced on a vintage amp and see why I did that and if it can be restored. Thanks.
Well done video on the ins & outs of cleaning pots! I now have a better idea and more confidence in even trying to clean the pots of my vintage stereo equipment! But I would have just sprayed them Red Deoxit! Thanks for the heads up! Just Subscribed to your channel Go Coogs!
I don’t know about using ‘damping grease’. But I have bought and used turntable cuing arm High Viscosity Damping Fluid. It maybe similar enough to the damping grease those old units used. You can find high viscosity fluid that run from 10,000 to 100,000 cst. Turntable damping fluid will cost about $10 for a half oz. Not cheap considering the amount. You can also research the use of RC car diff grease. That comes in even greater ranges, from approx. 2,000 to 2,000,000 cst. The RC diff grease runs $10 for a one oz or two oz can. One of these maybe the stuff to use. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are same stuff used originally. Oh, me, I use F100, and D100. None of that F5 or D5 spray stuff. But I am also guilty of using it incorrectly.
Thank You, Thank You, Thank You. I have two vintage pieces of equipment with pots made of unobtainium. This will help me resurrect them. Again, Thank You!
I am going to go along with the others defending using d5. I've used it for a very long time, and I've never felt that any potential was damaged from it. I guess it's conceivably possible that it causes damage to the odd pot, but I've not seen it.
Excellent video!!! Contact cleaners specifically target carbon since that's generally the result of arcing. So spraying it into a carbon pot is a recipe for disaster, that said... I'm as guilty as everyone else. Back in the mid 70's I worked in the radio room at a local TV shop and we used plain 'ol WD40 for pots since it flushed away dust and left a bit of lubricant after evaporation.
Great Video Tony!!!! and thank you so much for addressing that Deoxit spray nozzle that sucks so bad. Wont be buying anymore of that stuff until they change back.
I'm British and I don't think we have Deoxit here in the UK. I use a product called Servisol for pot and contact cleaning. Really interesting video so subbed to your channel.
I suspect that this problem occurs on older carbon pots (maybe over 40 years old). On newer gear (30 years or less) D5 does a great job and I have not noticed degradation of the pot over time.
I wish I saw this earlier. Have both and I thought the green one was for slide controls, but I in the future will use the green instead of the red thanks.
Always wondered how to clean those selector switches, kinda already knew I shouldn't get it on anything non metallic. I use the CRC contact cleaner (about $6) a lot cheaper than the D5 deoxit, which I can't seem to find ANYWHERE for less than $20!!
The history of the Red Deoxit , That's what everybody did and it worked for a year, as you have said than back scathy sound. I wish you would add to the title "How to not use Deoxit" so I can find it again later, thanks again
A brief note from Mr. el cheapo. Household ammonia will remove the black tarnish on silvered surfaces such as are often found on wafer switches, it evaporates off in no time, a cotton bud is useful. It will also clear out your sinuses if desired. Cheers, Steve.
If you clean it with Electric Circuit Cleaner then you could use Triflow which is Teflon in a spray can . Triflow works the best. Found in the paint Dept.of most Hardware stores.
You have attributed the crud found on the carbon disks in this potentiometer to previous treatments with Deoxit D5, if I've understood correctly. If that is a correct understanding, can you inform how you know that to be the case? Maybe you explained it, and I missed it.
In uk we use servisol spray. I would replace the pot. Get a old stock vintage one as they are lovely and smokth due to oil damping on shaft bearing.Never had a issue eith servisol-ever!
Tony, Re: your rant: the new nozzle was probably designed/ordered by the _sales_ manager! ;) Thanks for the warning though about the damage the "red" can cause. I'll be careful in the future about how & where I use it!
Tip for rotary selector switches. Many of the contacts used are actually a silver alloy, and Wright's silver polish (paste) will take off those years of tarnish better than D100 or anything like that.
Actually, I think it also melts and messes up the plastic inside. I bought a nice Peavey guitar amp from a guy (cheap) who had used the wrong stuff, and a few of the pots just turned all the way around and around, and the shafts even moved in an out because the shoulder O-ring thing was destroyed. Replaced them, and it made a great amp.
Tony: I hope you see this because I have a much better method for the silver-contacts. I have NEVER had good luck with using all the classic electronic cleaners for silver-contacts. When I worked for an Army-Depot on missile systems, we would have to tear these completely down and go through everything. One of the biggest problems was with all the silver contacts. In some environments, there was very little tarnish--in others it was horrendous. So, they gave us this clear stinky-liquid that just instantly removed the tarnish most of the time without scrubbing! At the time I knew the mfg and the chemical name. Anyway, I found out what is was: It is the same as Haggerty's Silver-Dip that can be had just about anywhere. Tip: When you get done using the silver-dip, flush it with IA to stop the chemical action--don't leave it on! Next, when you get the silver-dip bottle, there is an aluminum-foil cover over the bottle after you remove the cap. Simply take a fine needle and pierce a single small hole. This will allow you to put a swab by the hole and only saturate it, since this stuff is just like water and you do-not want it getting onto things! Anyway, let me know your opinion of this--so I hope you read this! 73...
I’ve been waiting for this video for years. Always wondered how to get the nice smooth resistance back in the control after it has been flushed bare. I believe it or not had excellent luck with flushing pots with just the alcohol you mention and then the green dioxit. But yes the large can contact only cleaner spray is a great first start before the deoxit green lube. I used to use another cleaner called CG or something like this from Raido Shack and it flushed pots nicely clean down to no grease and dry. If you sprayed this fast evap stuff to long it could possibly freeze and crack brittle plastic holding the wipers. It sure did flush out the pots clean however, but the friction grease was then all gone. Probably this cleaner used sparingly “not to flush out all the friction grease” then followed by the green deoxit lube probably would also work nice? But it seems like if you flush out the all the grease you really have no choice but to take the pot all apart like you did. Obviously this method you showed with disassembly seems like the absolute best way hands down! I would be interested in seeing if I can find anhydrous isopropyl alcohol or ethanol in a spray can? For this does not seem to wash out the grease as much as some of these other contact cleaner only type washes. Maybe follow this up with some deoxit green label and one would have a clean pot with friction grease in tact. Alcohol doesn’t tend to wash grease away as well as some of these other fast evap type contact cleaners that have harsh solvents or mineral spirits . Thanks for your video sir, great job!! 😎👍
I have always used LPS 1 (greaseless lubricant) to clean both switches and potentiometers. It is an off label use, but It only needs to be applied once and dirty potentiometers are restored. I used to use this on commercial sound distribution amplifiers and if the amp came back like five years later for another problem these controls would still be working great.
On the Deoxit site it specifically says: Wirewound Rheostats and Potentiometers, trim pots and other sensitive electronics: We recommend NOT using solvents, including any DeoxIT sprays with solvents. We do recommend trying the non-aerosol DeoxIT products on the contact surfaces. We recommend keeping away from sensitive areas, as a precaution, especially on old equipment. Carbon Pots & Faders: Care should be taken on carbon pots and faders, especially old equipment. The carbon make flake off over time. We recommend NOT to use any product with solvents. For carbon materials, we also recommend using the DeoxIT Fader (F100S-L2 and F100L-L25C and DeoxIT FaderGrease DFG-213-8G"non-aerosol DeoxIT applicators.
@@doofwop It won't "harm" them, but D5 (and ALL DeoxIT products, including solvent free versions) will strip the friction grease that gives the smooth, slightly restive feel of a new pot if applied to the pot's shaft.
I also read this on their site about a year ago, but it appears to have since been removed. The claim as I understood it, was never that the chemicals dissolved the carbon, but rather they could possibly dissolve the carbon binder, further risking the flaking associated with normal wear.
Someone gave me a music system to repair, the pots were quite bad, I wanted to get some stuff to clean them but I would have had to dismantle lots of stuff to gain ( pun intended ) access to them, so I just twiddled the knobs a bit, and they improved a lot - I'm glad I did that now.
Same carbon material is used in musical keyboard instruments, remote controls, key fobs, etc. Cleaning the surface of these contact points using q-tips with ISOPROPYL ALCOHOL and/or metal contact cleaners destroys them. The black gunk you see on the q-tip is carbon being rubbed off.
Full Disclosure - I am with CAIG Laboratories. We love your videos and while we may disagree about certain things (DeoxIT does not ruin carbon controls), we feel like you are fairly spot on and have great content. As to the applicators, CAIG Labs continues to make the DeoxIT D5 Sprays with the original Low Medium High sprayer and detachable straw. It has not been discontinued. As to the new integrated Perfect Straw, this is what a person on a flight line, under a vehicle or up a utility pole would prefer to use. No reason to rant! Thanks for the great content!
It may not be an issue with newer carbon pots, but older (40+ years) I've ruined a small number of pots with D5. It is probably more of a function of the age of the pot, but the chemicals are probably breaking down the deteriorating binder used in the carbon track. I've had one that you could literally see where the track was being wiped away after application. For full disclosure I checked the resistance before and after use. If I have a very scratchy pot I use some contact cleaner applied to qutip, disassemble the pot, and apply it to the wiper only. I use a very small amount of a mild cleaner mixed with a touch of alcohol to help it evaporate faster on the track, and give it a very light wipe.
Great Video tony. I did not know that it was bad for the carbon tracks. I'm a flusher with that stuff, Not no more.... I also noticed how it gets all over the pcb's and switch wafers and how long it takes to dry even after blowing it off. I agree with Robert, Your pretty smart for a guy with just a hobby. Did you have any formal electronics training? I notice you have a Fluke 6071a sig gen on your bench. I picked one up (barn find) pretty cheep. Have you had any trouble with yours? wondering if you cold go over some of the trouble codes. It wouldn't even power on until i went over the power supply, the main relay was so corroded it would not close all the way. powers up now but with error's This is a hobby for me too and this thing is a little on the learning side still lol....
Required viewing for ANYBODY IN THE HOBBY (work or pleasure:). Would have loved to have watched this 40 years ago. Better late than never. Thanks so much. You "are" the electron-whisperer.
I use both of those, D5 and F5, but only as a last resort on very dirty units. I don't use the spray, I use the liquid versions that comes in the dropper bottle with the needle tip.
It is amazing how clear and slowly this guy explains every topic in his videos!!! Thanks a lot from the non native english speaking followers comunity!!!!!
Tony is a very clever man and he wants people to understand :-D
Unlike some techs that just want to show how smart they are.
@@zx8401ztv You are right! In the end, that guys do not teach much, just show their knowledge.
Hi Tony Great video on servicing hi-end pots thank you. I think you are incorrect though in stating that D5 attacks carbon. Actually, pretty much nothing (solvent wise) attacks carbon and D5 certainly does not. I've just made a video on this. I've serviced (conservatively) 10,000 pots with D5 without a single problem. Same story for every amp tech I know. Millions of pots serviced. Also Caig have explicitely written to me and stated that D5 is safe for use on carbon track pots. You would have to believe they were flat-out lying to maintain that it attacks carbon. Yes of course any solvent will probably wash away the grease on your high-end pots. But it's the myth that D5 attacks carbon that I would love to put to bed once and for all! Soak a carbon track from a pot in D5 for a month then loom at it uder a microscope. There won't be the slightest damage. I believe the myth arose because some people believe minueral spirits dissolve carbon. They do not. People using it to clean carbon off engine are merely removing loose carbon particles which then go into suspension in the mineral spirit. Hope you don't mind me saying all this. Great work and a great channel.
I think that 'D5 attacks carbon thingy' has nothing to do with carbon at all. The stuff really kill 'OLD' pots carbon track is cold temperature the can produces while you are using it. The cold temperature it produces breaks down carbon track inside OLD pot. OLD pot only. New one ? it doesn't matter. OOOOOOLD one does... like 20+ years old.
@@overdriver99 Ah thanks Tony interesting. I've never experienced that myself. Also I've noticed D5 is not very cold when it comes out. All the best.
Can you explain what is used to attach the carbon materials to the strip and how D5 interacts with that adhesive?
He stated D5 is the “enemy of potentiometers” but not just any pot, “but carbon potentiometers” 2:35 but then went on to claim that D5 dissolves the “friction grease” 14:05 “which allows corrosion or crud to get in there” - I doubt friction grease is only applied to carbon pots. So where is the evidence of the claim of specifically carbon pots? There is none.
My understanding or conclusion has been that the “D” version is indeed recommended for metal contacts protection. It should leave a very thin protective layer on metal. Protective in the sense of limiting atmospheric contaminants, including oxygen, but most importantly the sulphur compounds (from your sweat and breathing) which tarnishes especially silver contacts. If, on the other hand you apply it to carbon, you leave atomic layer of insulator on top of the carbon. We are talking about carbon track and carbon wiper, both normally quite soft and lubricating as contact. So, you have coated the carbon with some invisible - even on a microscope - contamination layer. On metal contacts, there is no harm, as metal penetrates the D5-layer, being hard enough. That is in contrast to the carbon to carbon contact that cannot penetrate the thin, harder layer. Additionally, I speculate that the fresh layer of D5 may look like working fine even on carbon potentiometers, but do the damage in several months.
Wow excellent informative video and you saved my bacon. I’m a retired electronics engineer and presently performing some overdue maintenance on my Marantz, SAE and Harmon Kardon audio equipment from the 1970’s. It has many dirty switches and noisy pots in them. All of my cleaners are gone and I searched the internet for replacements. I came across a dude explaining how a pot works and how great this DeoxIT Red is for cleaning pots. Then I watched your video of how bad this stuff is for pots and what should be used instead and how to clean the switches. Boy I almost destroyed some high dollar classic audio gear. I hope this video goes viral and informs many others. Thanks again.
Great rant and bang on. Deoxit D5 is excellent for cleaning metal contacts only, not carbon comp potentiometers. My choice - MG Chemicals 404B with silicones for electronics, safe for plastics, leaves a dry silicone lube, as good or better than Deoxit Fader F5 at a fraction of the cost.
Just purchased a can of D5 spray and it looks like they revised the label as it now explicitly states potentiometers under the “uses” section. I also note another channel video discusses this issue and the host reached out to the manufacturer, Caig, and the company stated that D5 does not dissolve carbon or damage plastic, and is safe to use on potentiometers. Their F5 product contains additional lubricants for moving faders and the like, which is what differentiates it from the D5 product.
I also noticed you mentioned that D5 “dissolves carbon”, but then go on to explain that “cleaning off the D5” can possibly restore a potentiometer that was damaged by D5…. But if the carbon has been dissolved, obviously no amount of cleaning will restore it back.
My impression is that what is occurring in many cases is that the potentiometer was damaged to begin with, likely having scraped carbon traces from the wiper, and it continues to function to some degree because the scraped carbon powder is still laying in the trace even though it is no longer physically attached. After being cleaned with D5, that loose carbon powder is removed and the result is what appears to be worse functionality attributed to the D5, when really the potentiometer was worn to begin with. It’s possible that the lubricants in the F5 product allow that damaged carbon powder to stick a bit more, so you don’t notice the damage as much.
Just some observations.
To clear some things up, carbon will most likely be the only element left at the end of the universe, according to some physicists, so I doubt that red deoxit will "eat" it. That said, some potentiometers are made from compressed carbon powder mixed with a binding agent to make it solid.
When you "embalm" a potentiometer with huge quantities of deoxit (or any oily substance, for that matter) it will cause the binding agent in some carbon pots to break down. This will eventually cause the carbon track of the pot to wear down and get thin, changing the resistance until it eventually cracks and fails completely. This only happens with certain pots, as different binding agents can be more or less resistant to this. I have seen it many times. People will empty the can of deoxit into the pot and it will work for a while, only to have it stop working again, because of all the dirt and grime mixed with the oily residue causing it to not work again. The person will then spray more deoxit (or WD40 oil, or whatever) into the pot, repeating the cycle.
The best way to deal with a noisy pot is to use a quick drying non-residue contact cleaner, such as CRC QD cleaner. This will clean out the dust and grime from the pot. Then follow up with a tiny amount of treatment, such as the deoxit or nu-trol (or many other similar chemicals). Less is better. If that doesn't work, I suggest disassembling the pot and servicing it properly as I showed in the video.
Additionaly, I've found that the old selector switches that use bakelite or that brown fiberboard material will soften and crack when you embalm them as well. If you watch the video series I did on the Hallicrafters SX-42, you will see an example of this.
Again, this is just my opinion and my limited experience. There are others that have claimed to be "doing this for XX years, and I've never had any problems". I don't doubt this, as people with many years experience are probably using the product correctly and are not soaking the control in the stuff. Hope this helps.
I believe that’s a fair and accurate statement and I agree that over-saturating pots with any type of Deoxit is likely to cause more problems than it solves. I also agree that many older fiber board type materials are sensitive to oily compounds. A reasonably small amount of Deoxit probably won’t cause the problems you identify, but perhaps not using any oily type product would be safest.
Thanks for the follow up. Good job on the videos!
The redesign is because the original worked to well and they needed to sell more product. Very informative video and you have convinced me to change how I clean potentiometers.
45 minutes well spent. I learned so much from your tutorial and glad I did because I was going to spray the pots on an old receiver with the Red DeOxit!!!! Glad I caught your video and now I'll purchase the correct products.
Yes, for carbon pots and faders: green stuff, green stuff, GREEN STUFF!!!!! Works an absolute treat.
“Conductive plastic” means “carbon-track”, as I believe (but do check me on this) that the carbon tracks in most potentiometers are made of carbon-impregnated *plastic*.
They’re trying to be clear, but it’s created much confusion.
I recently restored two old (and very valuable) drum machines, and I had to order a new can of F5, as I certainly didn’t wanna screw those pots up. ALL the pots were completely restored by flushing them with DeOxit GREEN F5 “Fader Lube”.
Great video. I’ve also found that spraying pots can leech up the pot shaft and ruin the nice smooth dampened feel. Really, these pots need the TINIEST drop of the fader lube on the wiper. No need to spray the crap out of them.
I really appreciate this info Tony. Glad to learn about the Red DeOxit problem with pots. Also, I totally agree about the newer cans with that goofy fire hose straw. Have a great week.
I had a cheat for old pots which I discovered by accident. I used to blast them with a heat gun and the few times I did this they started working properly again. I was trying to remove a pot in an industrial setting and had blasted it with heat to try to loosen up paint on the fitting. To my surprise, the pot started working properly again. I didn't really think about it too much, just assumed that the heat had dissolved all the crap. No idea if this would work on all types of pots.
Wow!! I've been using D5 for carbon pots for years now. It's use for pots is legendary on the net. Thanks, Tony for the heads up in distinguishing it's specific use for switches and NOT carbon pots.
Yay! Good to see somebody else who "gets" it. De-Oxit is frequently misused and overused. The active ingredients are organic *acids* ---- more acidic than organic! ---- and you shouldn't leave all that gunk inside the pot. By the way, glass-bristle scratch brushes are an extremely useful tool, but the bristles vary greatly in stiffness and hardness from one make/supplier to another, and some will leave a rough surface on the metal commutator rings or even remove the silver plating. I find that a pencil eraser works well on both the carbon track and the metal ring. As for the scratch brushes, buy some replacement brushes from two or three different suppliers and you might get some really soft ones suitable for cleaning the metal without scratching. The stiffer ones are particulatly good for cleaning NOS terminal strips and tube socket contacts, or an amp chassis,, prior to soldering.
American pots used in Fishers did not contain "friction grease." That was ordinary grease for lubricating shaft and bushing to maintain low friction by keeping moisture and dust out. It's the Japanese pot makers that introduced a lubricant I'll call a "damping grease" to give a control that smooth rotation feeling.
Learned a few things from this video.
1. Use the right stuff for the job.
2. How to properly clean pots.
Didn't know about pot rebuild kits.
Mallory new old stock, you taking apart of the Fisher stereo pod reminded me of how you could buy different Value pots, shafts, switches and gang them together, gone are the good old days.
Unfortunately, those "pick a shaft" controls weren't the best quality wise ---- okay for fixing a TV's brightness or contrast control, or a table radio volume control, but not so good if you needed a stereo volume or balance pot.
I have been using Deoxit for years and it’s the best contact conditioner but it’s a two part-system red and blue the red is a cleaner it needs to be rinsed out and then treated with the bile it will not affect the rivets used. So it is good stuff if you use it right! !
@@harryconover289 , so, what do you use to flush the red De-Oxit out?
@@goodun2974 any plan contact cleaner make sure it doesn’t hurt plastic
@@goodun2974 any spay contact cleaner that doesn’t hurt plastic
Thank you for taking the time to tell us, Tony.
Thank you for sharing a good process for cleaning and re-lubricating old pots! One comment I would like to make, is at 18:16 , when you were going to clean the center contact ring, you showed us a fiberglass scratch brush with what looks like a used and dirty surface. If you have a pair of scissors made for cutting kevlar and carbon fiber (easily available from common "delivery and auction" sources) , you can use that to trim the dirty end of the fiberglass brush surface back to get a clean brush that hopefully won't deposit any contaminants on what you are trying to clean.
Problem is, a lot of people use too much of that red Deoxit, and the chassis is dripping out with the stuff. You have to use as minimal as you can, first the red, then the green, or only the green one. Depends on how dirty the pots are. So you have to open them, anyway, to see that. And less is more. For contacts, I use WD40 Specialist, the green one, it's specially for PCB and electronics. It works fast, and don't leave residue. Also, a bit, not spraying like you would with Kontakt WL to wash the PCB. If I use Deoxit in an open pot meter, I spray a bit in a small container and use an ear stick to clean and lube. But maybe I order the same as you use, the 100 brand. Problem is, on this side of the world there are few shops who sell this. Thanks for the tip.
WD 40 specialist is good but CRC 226 is even better.
Boy I am so glad that somebody made a comment on You Tube Video on this subject. I felt lost at the amount of people or techs using it on Pots and Sliders and I suspect its because of advertising. I quickly became distrustful of DeOxit D5 when I first used it to rejuvenate a turn signal relay on my car as it came highly recomended by a clerk that worked as an electrician at Home Depot. On seperate occasions it repeatedly developed carbon on the contacts of the relay and quit working. The best peformance I got was about five weeks. I was being cheap and should have bought the more expensive TV Tuner Cleaner. Yep thats what the sprays name was called. Quite a long time ago I used it on pots relays, record switches and relay contacts and never had a problems with them failing. I had also used it on five old car relays and never had a problem after words. As I wrote this comment, I have been diligently looking for a replacement to the actual and original TV Tuner cleaner and hoping to find what the contents of that product was. Ironically I never ever used it on a tv tuner, I felt that that product was undermarketed and could have been given a better, descriptive name. Reading the comments on the internet, it seems that one can of TV Tuner Cleaner can replace 2 to 3 cans that require doing the same job from reading peoples comments. Unfortunately I've heard that TV Tuner Cleaner has been discontinued. Getting back to DeOxit D5 I found it useful for getting rid of corrosion from the spring like Triple AAA battery contacts and other metal contact surfaces but that was all. After words cleaned them up with a q-tip and then applied a light other and more trusted oil. In the case of the relay, metal likes oil. I would cut out a small rectangular piece of card stock a little wider than width of the relay contact and spray it with a small amount TV Tuner Cleaner and then slide it between the cleaned contacts and they where as good as new. You can clean the surface or even file them clean, but if you don't put a thin layer of oil, the relay will fail down the road.
If anyone or somebody knows what the contents of TV Tuner Cleaner had or their experience please comment. I sure would be greatful and suspect others would be too. Experience is the best school.
I need to repair my old cb radio and this really helps me understand what I'm getting into. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Great video Tony & I appreciate the steps shown on performing needed 'surgery' on a pot.. I believe that it might be better to say that D5 can break up build on an already damaged or inferior carbon striping on a pot instead of saying that D5 destroys the carbon on a pot. And your video fairly shows that very well. Bringing up and showing how to handle the possibility of aged & hardened lubricant is also a key factor in the proper performance of a pot as well. Good job!! 👍😊
Tony.... I knew this day would arrive. Revisited this particular video. Once my Sansui developed this self inflected wound. I genuinely appreciate you and your channel. John
Have you tried 3.3 oz. Technician Grade Dielectric Grease from home depot? At $13 it sounds a better deal to me; plus the added benefit of a 3.3 oz tube could last you well into the next millennia. Safe on plastics and rubber too. Maybe it's wort doing a comparison video because I can see little difference between the performance of the two greases.
I was going to ask the same thing? but I seen you stated question already👍
@@ronniepirtlejr2606 Great minds Sir, Great minds.
I use the Super Lube Syncolon grease from HD - It has Teflon in it. I’ve used it for years from back when radio shack sold it. It costs $6.67 for a 3 oz tube. It is also available as a 4 oz bottle of oil.
I appreciate your reluctant acceptance of having to jump through hoops. I want you to know, I chose this video for the title. Not the face. Your face is harboring the hole you use to share information. Carry on
Absolutely correct. I dont understand why its so hard for people to spread the right info. Clean cautiously with the right deoxidizer like deoxit F, relube with a Rheo lube or if your pot feels loose due to washing/cleaning away the damping grease then add some more damping grease. But i guess i do get why people dont say that since that all just opens another can of worms. Which Rheo lube? What Deoxit/ contact cleaner? What Damping Grease? Of those products there are hundreds of variations with different purposes. But once you figure out the correct products and procedures you'll rarely come across a pot you cant revive. So bottom line, dont just spray contact cleaner and expect it to improve your potentiometer cause at best it will "work" for a few days then go right back to being scratchy (oxidized) and feeling loose.
Thanks for this video, I’m restoring a RCA Victor am/fm radio I got at an Estate sale for 5 bucks. The volume potentiometer was super scratchy and I was looking for my Deoxit to spray the heck out of it like I have done in the past. Well I had used my Deoxit on a friends car and forgot I left it in my truck and ran across this video before I found it. So I took the potentiometer apart and cleaned like you showed and now it works great and is so smooth. BTW this pot was a 1 Meg ohm with 2 taps in the rear at 250 and 500 ohms so it would have been a hard one to replace. Thanks again I’ll be using this info in the future.
In tmy education as electronics technician here in Europe I learnd only use specialized Cleaners for sensitive Parts like Pots, Sliders, Tuner and so on.
We use only Kontakt Chemie´s TUNER 600 for cleaning.
Does good work on our Studio Mixer's .
Good video......used to use CRC products in telephony so I've stuck with them. Less expensive than Caig. Very cool to see an old Triplett meter.
Thanks for that "heads up", Tony. You making a face unfortunately did not make the video popping up for me, obviously, but I also learned that information way back when I was trainee... I did learn there that it *always* is a good idea to
1st clean up the pot *and* switches with stuff much alike your "deoxit red"
2nd rinse out *all* of the contact cleaner with something like alcohol (either use things like isopropanol alcohol from a spray can or get some drops of it inside the pots
3rd after all give all some kind of oil spray, maybe use things like gun-oil (Ballistol) or even the much beloved "WD40" spray which is kind of both: Lubrication for the contacts and sealing it against new corrision. And it is not only water-detergent but also gets out the cleaning chemicals out of the carbon tracks etc. from where these chemicals may also kill the paper or plastic carrier plate of the carbon track, as you said.
This 3 steps did work very well most of the time for me, even without dismounting
I have also run into a case or two where a residue-free "electronics cleaner" has been safe in every other aspect, but it apparently dissolved the glue used to build some SMD button switches.
I just used Deoxit applied to the 22 Faders on my 1978 Soundcraftmen's PE2217 Pre-amplifier/Equalizer. Good stuff. I then applied a silicon lubricant to those 22 Faders. Worked out wonderfully But there were several scratches on the top of the wooden case. So I sanded them down, and then applied a matching magic marker color to those areas. But in the long run, those areas looked more shiny than the rest of the undamaged areas. Just for a laugh, I applied the Deoxit to the whole wooden area. WOW, it now looks as good as new with no areas being different from the rest. When I say WOW, I mean super WOW !
I must admit, I've been a bit 'silly' with the red deoxit, and I do think it's a case of 'monkey see, monkey do'.
Thanks for bringing the awareness to the products we use and how to use them more appropriately.
Your knowledge and the sharing of it is much appreciated.
Thanks for this video. I had been using F5 on pots & faders since 2012 and always kept buying it just for that purpose. I always read online that everyone was using D5 for their pots. I almost thought to try D5 on the pots but F5 worked great so I never did. Now I feel like I just got lucky all these years using the right stuff for the job.
Tony seems VERY knowledgeable for a guy who this is “just a hobby” for. I can troubleshoot basic electronics and even locate a transistor that works intermittently. But beats me about knowing what chemical product to use for what. I don’t believe one can take a course on it(?) Regular technical institutions that teach electronics are more likely to make one take a history or civics course with a “woke” teacher (that may try to teach one to hate their country) than to offer a practical course on the application of chemical products for electronics. Does Deoxit or MG go to various states to offer them? My local electronics store is always having Elenco come in to teach soldering to beginners but it would be nice if they had an applications engineer come in from a chemical company. Thanks for your video Tony X.
He makes his living as an electrical engineer. I guess when he says hobby he means he doesn't make his living fixing stereo gear.
Trial and error, we've all done it.
Best way to learn is to destroy a few things..... In a controlled manor of course and keeping the expense to a minimum. I find I learn more from what does not work then when it works the way I expect it too.
His company services and maintains medical imaging equipment, ie lots of cross over knowledge and experience.
Nice one Tony, you choose to give an honest opinion, instead of a free supply of Caig D products like all the other so called influencers.
I don't understand the ridiculous face thumbnail thing that the youtube algorithm seems to like, but here's the truth: I generally won't click on videos with those stupid thumbnails because they drive me crazy. Usually it's a shit channel trying to get clicks.
That said, you and Mr. Carlson can make all the silly faces you want, and I will always watch.
This video is pretty timely for me, too, because I found a NOS still sealed Heathkit tube amp to that I will be building, and one of the unobtanium pots it came with is a little stiff, and will need this kind of TLC. So thank you for making this video.
Very interesting video Tony. Just shows there is no silver bullet for cleaning contacts, it's horses for courses. Worth stressing the use of an analogue meter for checking pot action, using a DMM just doesn't show what is happening, especially if the autoranging kicks in as the resistance of the pot varies.
The Japanese really did their research on friction grease, most of their pots have a superb Goldilocks 'feel', not too loose, not too stiff, just tactile perfection.
Sorry to see your pots got damaged buy Deoxit D5. What a disappointment. I’ve had good luck with MG Chemicals Nu-trol Control Cleaner which IS designed for potentiometers. The only issue I’ve had cleaning pots was with a McIntosh MC-2105 amp. The controls in mine seemed to use a vinyl-like track, similar to those found in faders, and the control cleaner just dissolved the track and lifted it right off. Perhaps Deoxit Fader would have been a better choice for those as it’s supposedly safe on plastics. Most of the time cleaning pots is foolproof, but when it goes wrong, it goes very wrong.
The smooth movement of the swing needle meter brings back memories of electric shop in Jr. Highschool.
Reviewing your video again to pick up anything I might have missed. Suggest a video on how to investigate, identify, and replace defective stereo pots with new would make an excellent informational video... this perplexes me on how and where and what to buy... And modify stereo pots.
This is valuable information. I'll be backing-off the DeoxIT D5 and use Fader F5 from now on!
I'll unfortunately have to tare apart everything I have restored, and hit them with Fader F5! err
Everyone has their own tools and products that they like to use. When I do use Deoxit D5 on switches it is a tiny amount at the end of the process. D5 is pretty expensive stuff. What is cheap and works great is CRC Contact Cleaner 100% evaporation, once the dirt is washed out it leaves nothing behind. Switches and pots get washed really well with it. Switches get a tiny drop of D5 on the contacts. If the mechanism is stiff I use a little bit of white lithium grease, it's non-conductive. When I rebuild pots it's all cleaned and I choose to not put anything on the carbon or the wiper contact points. If the shaft needs it, just a bit of the white lithium grease so it rotates freely. This is not the only way, and I can't claim it's the best way for everyone; it works for me.
Thank you so much for this EDUCATIONAL video! You really helped me, and I am sure others out that are just now getting into resurrecting vintage gear.
This all makes perfect sense. This type of video is always very entertaining for me. Thanks Tony!
I don't have much time or space to do electronics repairs anymore but in the 1980s when I fixed a bunch of second hand gear for my own use, I learned to really hate contact spray. I never used it myself but I got stuff from others that had gunk all over the place on potmeters and on switches. I always thought that it didn't make sense because whatever it is, you spray it on the dirt and it might make it soft or whatever, but the dirt doesn't actually go anywhere! Unless you wipe it off maybe, which no-one does of course.
So you get a device with a crackling potmeter, spray it, and it works, but pretty soon the crackling comes back worse than before, because the contact spray turned into gunk. So I rather opened the potmeters and switches and scraped any oxidation off wipers (never scrape the carbon tracks of course) and switch contacts with a knife or even a screwdriver, and that worked great: I fixed many devices that way, which still work 30 odd years later.
I don't know if contact spray in Europe is the same thing as DeOxit but seeing all those videos of you and other guys spraying that crap into potentiometers, I almost changed my mind and got some of this "miracle" stuff for future repairs. I'm glad you proved me right after all, and stopped me on time.
Really great explanation, something that you unfortunately find far too rarely on UA-cam.
Worth mentioning that some pots have a C-ring snap-fitted into a groove on the shaft that will need to be pried off. Also, some pots have the wafers *crimped* onto the shaft (the shaft was peened like a rivet during manufacture) ---- this generally doesn't pose a problem for disassembling single pots, but some dual pots might be impossible to disassemble, especially dual concentric pots where there is an outer shaft for the front-most pot and an inner shaft for the rear-most pot. The question that arises is, how badly does the pot operate, and is there an alternative to disassembling it? You might only get one shot at it, and a mistake, or a slip of the pliers, could spell doom for your vintage equipment. Have a Plan B at the ready, just in case. If there is sufficient space to just replace the control with a modern blue Alps pot, and the correct resistance and taper is available (and the shaft length is sufficient and can accept the original knob) , then just replace it. The problem that often arises is that many of these vintage controls have a fixed loudness tap on the resistance elements, and exact replacement pots are no longer available. Proceed with caution!
Good info on pots and the use of DeOxit. I was guilty of using the D5 for everything until a few months ago after learning the harmful effects it had on pots. 😬 A noiseless pot is a happy pot! 😊Love the Alaskan Pipeline comment 😅You can remove that bulky cap but it takes a bit of force then outfitting the exposed stem with a different nozzle should work 🤔
Very instructive video!!! Excellent! One comment: please do something with the autofocus lag, it's annoying for me :).
I've found that Houdini works well for cleaning pots. It's a greaseless and oilless lock lubricant produced since the 1970s and it's d-limonene based and non-conductive. It will dissolve polystyrene, though.
Hi Tony. I have a recommendation; after applying the Deoxit D100 drop onto the metal contact ring, gently spread it with your pinkie finger, a toothpick, or the pointy end of those cosmetic Q-tips. If you don’t - and you reassemble the pot as-is - the 1st time you turn the shaft, the wiper could fling the droplet onto the carbon track, undoing all the good you’ve just done. And with it reassembled, you’ll never see it. By spreading it out, you can see if any D100 gets on the carbon track while the pot is still disassembled, and you can wipe it off. HTH! 😋
NO, don't use D5 or D100 inside any pot. If you want the rotor contact ring lubed use an electronics grade grease that will not dry out for many years. VERY expensive if you can find that. But for cheap skates like me I use Super Lube (used to be sold by Radio Shack labelled as lube Gel. Apply very little. It won't run around inside the pot and foul the carbon track if that's what you're worried about.
Thank you a lot for this video! I was lucky enough to read somewhere before that D5 must not be used on potenciometers and bought and used F5 instead. On the other of my tape deck (same model) the pots are very loose, so I guess someone did use D5/100 on those before ("profesionally serviced", said eBay ad...).
BTW, I read the description on D5 and indeed it does not mention it should not be used on potenciometers.
Tony, excellent video. Thanks! I knew about the Caig fader (F) products, but didn't realize that D5/100 could damage carbon pots. I wonder how many vintage systems are out there deteriorating as we speak.
Great picture! Wonderful information. I've been using DeOxit for years and never realized that it didn't like carbon pots. Luckily, I don't believe that I have actually used it for volume controls. Thanks for the video!
Thank you for the tutorial. My question is regarding the latter end where you discuss using the QC electronic cleaner: In spraying a little to remove residue, will it affect the existing friction grease or because the cleaner is alcohol based - not so much? I'm guessing the only way to know is when all is done if the pot turns too easily, grease may have been compromised. I know a little goes a long way so the trick is to use cleaners and lubes sparingly. Thanks again, cheers.
I haven't watched the video yet, but I needed to say, "That's how you do a thumbnail, folks!" lol
Lol reminds of my younger days of hunting on the back roads and trash bin outside people were tossing old radios 📻 out from many brands i was 13 or 15 most of them had burnt outputs and i go in and fix them alcohol was my freind lol now what happened too the recivers i fix idk i had about 5 or 4 then later at around 18 or 19 i found a bunch of sanyo and integrated amps that need the stk chip and i used my allowance too spring for parts or from others old radios i had i do think when left all my stuff got junk after my mom moved and i was out of town. Bummer now i still work on electronics i love the audio side of electronics repair & modified thanks for great and awesome video lots of info
just done my alps input selector switch using bicarbonate soda and vinegar, came up lovely, great deoxidiser.
this is %100 correct. this is a corrosion inhibitor and design to dissolve and remove most metal salts and leave a residue to protect from later corrosion like copper sulfate or oxidation.
That's a lot of work. Are you doing that to retain vintage authenticity? Because, for the value of time, I'd buy a new one and slap it in. That said, I'm going to take another look at one I replaced on a vintage amp and see why I did that and if it can be restored. Thanks.
Well done video on the ins & outs of cleaning pots! I now have a better idea and more confidence in even trying to clean the pots of my vintage stereo equipment! But I would have just sprayed them Red Deoxit! Thanks for the heads up! Just Subscribed to your channel Go Coogs!
I don’t know about using ‘damping grease’.
But I have bought and used turntable cuing arm High Viscosity
Damping Fluid.
It maybe similar enough to the damping grease those old units used.
You can find high viscosity fluid that run from 10,000 to 100,000 cst.
Turntable damping fluid will cost about $10 for a half oz. Not cheap considering the amount.
You can also research the use of RC car diff grease.
That comes in even greater ranges, from approx. 2,000 to 2,000,000 cst.
The RC diff grease runs $10 for a one oz or two oz can.
One of these maybe the stuff to use.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they are same stuff used originally.
Oh, me, I use F100, and D100.
None of that F5 or D5 spray stuff.
But I am also guilty of using it incorrectly.
Thank You, Thank You, Thank You. I have two vintage pieces of equipment with pots made of unobtainium. This will help me resurrect them. Again, Thank You!
Thank you for your assistance. Very helpful. Can you please tell me if the gold spray is also safety for pots?
I've always used D5 followed by F5 on carbon controls. Won't be using D5 on carbon any more.
It's all about the money! Do what we can to make you use (waste) more Caig Products in order to sell you more!
Great vid by the way . A lot of those selector switches just crumble on their own too just due to age
I am going to go along with the others defending using d5. I've used it for a very long time, and I've never felt that any potential was damaged from it. I guess it's conceivably possible that it causes damage to the odd pot, but I've not seen it.
Excellent video!!! Contact cleaners specifically target carbon since that's generally the result of arcing. So spraying it into a carbon pot is a recipe for disaster, that said... I'm as guilty as everyone else. Back in the mid 70's I worked in the radio room at a local TV shop and we used plain 'ol WD40 for pots since it flushed away dust and left a bit of lubricant after evaporation.
Great Video Tony!!!! and thank you so much for addressing that Deoxit spray nozzle that sucks so bad. Wont be buying anymore of that stuff until they change back.
AWESOME use of the lapel mike. I really dislike videos where the speaker fades in/out as they turn or move around.
I'm British and I don't think we have Deoxit here in the UK. I use a product called Servisol for pot and contact cleaning. Really interesting video so subbed to your channel.
I suspect that this problem occurs on older carbon pots (maybe over 40 years old). On newer gear (30 years or less) D5 does a great job and I have not noticed degradation of the pot over time.
I totally agree with you! On all a counts!
I cleaned many guitar amp controls, with the red . Only to demonstrate to a buyer. Scratching pots. Wth
I wish I saw this earlier. Have both and I thought the green one was for slide controls, but I in the future will use the green instead of the red thanks.
Always wondered how to clean those selector switches, kinda already knew I shouldn't get it on anything non metallic.
I use the CRC contact cleaner (about $6) a lot cheaper than the D5 deoxit, which I can't seem to find ANYWHERE for less than $20!!
The history of the Red Deoxit , That's what everybody did and it worked for a year, as you have said than back scathy sound. I wish you would add to the title "How to not use Deoxit" so I can find it again later, thanks again
This was a very valuable lesson, taught excellently!
Thank you!
A brief note from Mr. el cheapo. Household ammonia will remove the black tarnish on silvered surfaces such as are often found on wafer switches, it evaporates off in no time, a cotton bud is useful. It will also clear out your sinuses if desired. Cheers, Steve.
I’ve heard that Windex no longer is using ammonia just in case people hear ammonia and assume to use Windex.
If you clean it with Electric Circuit Cleaner then you could use Triflow which is Teflon in a spray can . Triflow works the best. Found in the paint Dept.of most Hardware stores.
You have attributed the crud found on the carbon disks in this potentiometer to previous treatments with Deoxit D5, if I've understood correctly.
If that is a correct understanding, can you inform how you know that to be the case? Maybe you explained it, and I missed it.
Some techs will say this is residue from WD-40 (which one engineer swears contains linseed oil), not D5. I couldn't tell you for sure myself.
In uk we use servisol spray. I would replace the pot. Get a old stock vintage one as they are lovely and smokth due to oil damping on shaft bearing.Never had a issue eith servisol-ever!
Tony, Re: your rant: the new nozzle was probably designed/ordered by the _sales_ manager! ;) Thanks for the warning though about the damage the "red" can cause. I'll be careful in the future about how & where I use it!
Tip for rotary selector switches. Many of the contacts used are actually a silver alloy, and Wright's silver polish (paste) will take off those years of tarnish better than D100 or anything like that.
Actually, I think it also melts and messes up the plastic inside. I bought a nice Peavey guitar amp from a guy (cheap) who had used the wrong stuff, and a few of the pots just turned all the way around and around, and the shafts even moved in an out because the shoulder O-ring thing was destroyed. Replaced them, and it made a great amp.
It took a year, any maybe because of your thumbnail the magic algorithm put this video into my (mostly electronics) recommended list. :)
Tony: I hope you see this because I have a much better method for the silver-contacts.
I have NEVER had good luck with using all the classic electronic cleaners for silver-contacts.
When I worked for an Army-Depot on missile systems, we would have to tear these completely down and go through everything. One of the biggest problems was with all the silver contacts. In some environments, there was very little tarnish--in others it was horrendous.
So, they gave us this clear stinky-liquid that just instantly removed the tarnish most of the time without scrubbing! At the time I knew the mfg and the chemical name.
Anyway, I found out what is was: It is the same as Haggerty's Silver-Dip that can be had just about anywhere.
Tip: When you get done using the silver-dip, flush it with IA to stop the chemical action--don't leave it on!
Next, when you get the silver-dip bottle, there is an aluminum-foil cover over the bottle after you remove the cap. Simply take a fine needle and pierce a single small hole. This will allow you to put a swab by the hole and only saturate it, since this stuff is just like water and you do-not want it getting onto things!
Anyway, let me know your opinion of this--so I hope you read this! 73...
In all my years servicing electronics I have never needed to dismantle a pot. I use Servisol Super 10 these days. One squirt and it's fixed.
i use a simular USA brand - i am afraid to swith.
I’ve been waiting for this video for years. Always wondered how to get the nice smooth resistance back in the control after it has been flushed bare. I believe it or not had excellent luck with flushing pots with just the alcohol you mention and then the green dioxit. But yes the large can contact only cleaner spray is a great first start before the deoxit green lube. I used to use another cleaner called CG or something like this from Raido Shack and it flushed pots nicely clean down to no grease and dry. If you sprayed this fast evap stuff to long it could possibly freeze and crack brittle plastic holding the wipers. It sure did flush out the pots clean however, but the friction grease was then all gone. Probably this cleaner used sparingly “not to flush out all the friction grease” then followed by the green deoxit lube probably would also work nice? But it seems like if you flush out the all the grease you really have no choice but to take the pot all apart like you did. Obviously this method you showed with disassembly seems like the absolute best way hands down!
I would be interested in seeing if I can find anhydrous isopropyl alcohol or ethanol in a spray can? For this does not seem to wash out the grease as much as some of these other contact cleaner only type washes. Maybe follow this up with some deoxit green label and one would have a clean pot with friction grease in tact. Alcohol doesn’t tend to wash grease away as well as some of these other fast evap type contact cleaners that have harsh solvents or mineral spirits . Thanks for your video sir, great job!! 😎👍
I have always used LPS 1 (greaseless lubricant) to clean both switches and potentiometers. It is an off label use, but It only needs to be applied once and dirty potentiometers are restored. I used to use this on commercial sound distribution amplifiers and if the amp came back like five years later for another problem these controls would still be working great.
On the Deoxit site it specifically says:
Wirewound Rheostats and Potentiometers, trim pots and other sensitive electronics:
We recommend NOT using solvents, including any DeoxIT sprays with solvents. We do recommend trying the non-aerosol DeoxIT products on the contact surfaces. We recommend keeping away from sensitive areas, as a precaution, especially on old equipment.
Carbon Pots & Faders:
Care should be taken on carbon pots and faders, especially old equipment. The carbon make flake off over time. We recommend NOT to use any product with solvents. For carbon materials, we also recommend using the DeoxIT Fader (F100S-L2 and F100L-L25C and DeoxIT FaderGrease DFG-213-8G"non-aerosol DeoxIT applicators.
Except that D5 will not harm carbon pots. Caig Labs specifically said so.
@@doofwop It won't "harm" them, but D5 (and ALL DeoxIT products, including solvent free versions) will strip the friction grease that gives the smooth, slightly restive feel of a new pot if applied to the pot's shaft.
I also read this on their site about a year ago, but it appears to have since been removed. The claim as I understood it, was never that the chemicals dissolved the carbon, but rather they could possibly dissolve the carbon binder, further risking the flaking associated with normal wear.
Someone gave me a music system to repair, the pots were quite bad, I wanted to get some stuff to clean them but I would have had to dismantle lots of stuff to gain ( pun intended ) access to them, so I just twiddled the knobs a bit, and they improved a lot - I'm glad I did that now.
Same carbon material is used in musical keyboard instruments, remote controls, key fobs, etc. Cleaning the surface of these contact points using q-tips with ISOPROPYL ALCOHOL and/or metal contact cleaners destroys them. The black gunk you see on the q-tip is carbon being rubbed off.
Full Disclosure - I am with CAIG Laboratories. We love your videos and while we may disagree about certain things (DeoxIT does not ruin carbon controls), we feel like you are fairly spot on and have great content. As to the applicators, CAIG Labs continues to make the DeoxIT D5 Sprays with the original Low Medium High sprayer and detachable straw. It has not been discontinued. As to the new integrated Perfect Straw, this is what a person on a flight line, under a vehicle or up a utility pole would prefer to use. No reason to rant! Thanks for the great content!
Hi, I am from India. Cant get your products here. Kindly point out if you have any Indian channel partner.
It may not be an issue with newer carbon pots, but older (40+ years) I've ruined a small number of pots with D5. It is probably more of a function of the age of the pot, but the chemicals are probably breaking down the deteriorating binder used in the carbon track. I've had one that you could literally see where the track was being wiped away after application. For full disclosure I checked the resistance before and after use.
If I have a very scratchy pot I use some contact cleaner applied to qutip, disassemble the pot, and apply it to the wiper only. I use a very small amount of a mild cleaner mixed with a touch of alcohol to help it evaporate faster on the track, and give it a very light wipe.
Hi Michael, D5 Could be too strong on older style POTS???. see BART Youndblood.....
Can you buy a Carbon paint???.
Great Video tony. I did not know that it was bad for the carbon tracks. I'm a flusher with that stuff, Not no more.... I also noticed how it gets all over the pcb's and switch wafers and how long it takes to dry even after blowing it off. I agree with Robert, Your pretty smart for a guy with just a hobby. Did you have any formal electronics training? I notice you have a Fluke 6071a sig gen on your bench. I picked one up (barn find) pretty cheep. Have you had any trouble with yours? wondering if you cold go over some of the trouble codes. It wouldn't even power on until i went over the power supply, the main relay was so corroded it would not close all the way. powers up now but with error's This is a hobby for me too and this thing is a little on the learning side still lol....
Required viewing for ANYBODY IN THE HOBBY (work or pleasure:). Would have loved to have watched this 40 years ago. Better late than never. Thanks so much. You "are" the electron-whisperer.
I use both of those, D5 and F5, but only as a last resort on very dirty units. I don't use the spray, I use the liquid versions that comes in the dropper bottle with the needle tip.
That D5 is for metal contacts. I use the green DeOxit for pots including the plastic pots for years and no problems!
Same here. 👍
Wow. Excellent advise. Thank you. I have now also learned the hard way.